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13 Year-Old Boy Permanently Disabled from Chicken Pox Vaccine Wins His Case in Vaccine Court

A young man was recently awarded compensation in the United States Court of Federal Claims Vaccine Court, for injuries he sustained after being administered the hepatitis A and varicella vaccinations in 2009.  After five long years of litigation, Health and Human Services (HHS), the Respondent in all vaccine injury cases, conceded that the varicella vaccination did in fact cause RD’s vaccine injury, transverse myelitis, which has left him a tetraplegic.

In November 2014, HHS conceded that the vaccination caused RD’s injuries.  Even with this concession, his case continued for another year in the damages phase, during which time the parties continued to negotiate the amount of damages that RD would receive for his injuries.  Although he was compensated for his suffering and injuries, the monetary award will never compensate for the lifelong effects this young man is suffering from his vaccine injury.

Five Long Years

RD was only 13 when his life changed forever.  At a routine well-child visit in 2009, the doctor informed RD’s parents that he was due to receive the hepatitis A and varicella vaccinations.  His parents complied with the doctor’s order and RD received the vaccinations.

RD’s mother explained that, at that time in RD’s state, only one dose of varicella vaccine was required and RD had already received one dose of that vaccine.  This second dose that was administered to RD at this well visit was determined to be the cause of RD’s horrific injuries, and it was not even required for him, which his family didn’t realize until it was too late.

About 14 days later, RD began to experience excruciating pain shooting through his body along with tingling, numbness and paralysis of his limbs. After extensive testing and many invasive procedures, RD was diagnosed with transverse myelitis.

RD’s parents filed a case in Vaccine Court, which took over five years to settle. RD and his family faced arduous heartbreak along the way. In the ruling, a representative from the United States Department of Justice agreed that “a preponderance of the evidence establishes that petitioner’s transverse myelitis was caused-in-fact by the administration of his August 12, 2009 varicella vaccine.” [1]

RD’s lawyer, Patricia Finn, stated that:

“The injuries that RD suffered from this vaccine are severe and lifelong.  Even though he has received a significant award as far as the awards in the Vaccine Court go, no amount of money will ever compensate him for what he has lost.

But RD is an amazing young man who has not let this injury stop him in any way.  He has graduated high school with his class, attends a Tier 1 college, and has great aspirations that I know he will achieve despite the challenges he faces because of his injuries.”

RD’s Immune System Attacked His Spine

Transverse myelitis is a rare, immune-mediated syndrome in which the spinal cord becomes inflamed. At the onset of transverse myelitis, immune cells mistakenly invade the body, specifically attacking the spinal cord, often damaging the protective myelin coating. [2]

The syndrome was extremely rare until the 1920s, when hundreds of cases were diagnosed following administration of rabies and smallpox vaccines. Later research revealed that transverse myelitis is a post-infectious disorder.

According to Mayo Clinic, vaccines are a primary cause of transverse myelitis, and doctors are trained to ask patients who are seeking treatment if they have recently been vaccinated. Hepatitis B vaccines, measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccines, and diphtheria-tetanus (Tdap) vaccines have been implicated in causing cases of transverse myelitis. [3]

The onset of symptoms is commonly sudden and severe. Many people who develop transverse myelitis initially notice frightening symptoms, including pain, often in their neck or back, which is what happened to RD.

They may also experience shooting sensations radiating through their arms, legs, and abdomen; abnormal sensations, including numbness, burning, coldness, tingling, tightness of the skin, and over sensitivity to touch and temperature; weakness in arms and legs; stumbling; paralysis; bladder and bowel problems, including incontinence and constipation.

RD experienced many of these symptoms as his immune system attacked his own body.

RD Remembers the Day His Life Changed Forever

With striking confidence and a notable tinge of sadness in his voice, RD gave us his recollection of the last days of his normal life:

“The doctor just said that we needed the chicken pox and the hepatitis A vaccine and we just assumed the doctor knew what he was talking about.  My sister received the same vaccines and, thank God, she’s fine.

I got the vaccine on August 12, 2009, and then I was fine for the next two weeks. I complained of a little bit of back pain towards August 29, but we thought it was just muscle soreness from riding my bike.

Then, on August 29, I woke up and I was in excruciating neck pain. I went to go take a shower and I thought I was going to pass out in the shower; how much my neck hurt. 

I went in the kitchen and told my mom and dad that I was in excruciating neck pain. My mom rubbed my neck. I ate a little breakfast and then I threw up and I felt better after that.

After that, about five minutes later, I tried to lift my arm and I felt the electricity in my arm leave and I couldn’t move it up. I instantly had a feeling of terror and it is still the most horrifying feeling I know.

I kept telling myself that maybe it fell asleep and that it was going to wake up. As the day went on, it didn’t. I began to feel more numbness and tingling. I started to fall off the sofa and my dad had to carry me to my room. My parents then rushed me to the hospital.

At the hospital they intubated me. They weren’t sure what I had so they sent me to the local regional hospital. I was transferred to a local trauma unit because they didn’t know what was wrong with me.

I wasn’t aware of this because I was intubated and knocked out, but they gave me an MRI and a spinal tap. The next day, on August 30, I was diagnosed with acute transverse myelitis. I was completely paralyzed from the neck down.

It hit my brain a little bit. It hit the vertebrae C1, C2, C3, C4 and a little bit of C5.”

The Long Journey Begins

RD shared the details of the first traumatic weeks when he learned to live with a devastating vaccine injury.

“So, I don’t remember any of this, but this was told to me by my parents and my family. During the next week, they got in touch with Johns Hopkins Medical Center where there was a specialist. Myelitis is like an autoimmune disorder. My immune system thought my nerves were bad, so it attacked them.

They gave me one treatment called IVIG that confused my immune system and it stopped attacking my spine. They also gave me a chemotherapy treatment.

They also gave me seven treatments called plasmapheresis. Basically, I had a tube in my upper right thigh that were attached to a machine. Every few days, it pulled the old plasma out of my blood and put new plasma in to me. Antibodies are in the plasma, so this was done to remove the antibodies that were attacking my spine.

Since I was numb, I couldn’t feel this; however, I do recall that, for some reason, as I had more treatments whenever the machine was on, I felt a pain where the tubes were.

When they do spinal taps, they also pull out spinal fluid. They had that fluid, so once I was stabilized, the doctors used that to determine what caused the myelitis.

The doctors asked what vaccines I had. The doctor of Columbia Medical Center in New York City found the varicella virus in my spinal fluid.

The first day I got sick, they also did another test, NMO, neuromyelitis optica, to see if my body could produce the antibody naturally that could cause myelitis. The first test came back negative, that my body was not able to produce the antibody.

Over the course of two years, I had two more of those tests, to produce medically sound results. Those tests all came back negative.”

So, then what happened, on September 25, about a month later, I was then transferred to rehabilitation in New York City. I spent six months there in inpatient rehabilitation.”

Contemplating how his life changed so suddenly, unexpectedly, and tragically, RD said:

“It was really terrible. I was lucky and I feel I’m regaining something, but it is a horrible experience to go from a normal life to not being able to use your limbs anymore.

I lost my independence.”

The Debilitating Effects Of Transverse Myelitis

Sadly, RD will  suffer symptoms of his vaccine injury for the rest of his life. Transverse myelitis is a disease with lifelong effects which can include pain; stiffness; painful muscle spasms; partial or total paralysis of arms, legs, or both; sexual dysfunction; and very commonly, depression and anxiety, due to the stress of living with chronic pain.

According to the Transverse Myelitis Association, a nonprofit foundation offering support to individuals with rare, immune-neurological disorders, “there are very few clinical centers with physicians who specialize in transverse myelitis.” RD and his family travel four hours twice a year to receive treatment at a facility that specializes in this condition.

A Mother’s Heartbreak

You can imagine the agony any parent would feel as they helplessly watch their healthy, able-bodied child become paralyzed and endure many painful medical procedures. On that fateful day, the lives of RD’s family members changed forever, too.

RD’s mother shared:

“He was a very independent young man, little boy, and teenager, very responsible, and then he had to become dependent on every little thing in his life, totally dependent on his mother and father and his sister for everything.

You make the most of it but it does take everything out of you in life. Even though you move, on it’s always lingering in my mind.

It’s very hard to watch because he doesn’t know what he is missing. He hasn’t experienced what normal teenagers do. I know what he is missing, but he doesn’t.

It’s very hard for a parent to watch their child not experience normal things that teenagers experience. We have sheltered his life a lot because he doesn’t experience independence. He doesn’t really enjoy going out with normal people because he can’t just go to the bathroom by himself and he can’t just go to a food establishment and order food.

His summer consists of catching up on therapy. We do take him to the spinal center for about four hours of therapy a day. Now that he is older, most children are going on to internships and moving on with life, and he is going to catch up on therapy. It’s just a reminder.

I do speak to a lot of the parents whose children have myelitis, many of which are caused by vaccines.

My husband takes vacation time because the spinal center is four hours from our house. It’s just what you do on your ‘free’ vacation time. We know things could be worse but it’s still hard to watch what we have to watch because you don’t want to see your child suffer.

It does affect the siblings. My daughter has been affected by this. She does want to become a physical therapist. She’s been at the rehabilitation center for the past seven years when we go.

As a child, you could sweep it under the carpet. She has times when she cries about it. All of her friends’ siblings are doing things, driving or going away to college, and it’s a different lifestyle than for her brother. She tries to not let it consume her but it hurts her.

I wish I could go back and change everything.”

RD’s Life Today

RD reflected on the last seven years of living with a vaccine injury:

“All of the tragedy that initially happened, over all these years, I try to focus on the good things. I like to talk about the positive things. I don’t make it sound as negative as it actually was. I try to live positively now.”

It’s difficult to have a social life outside of school. Right now I commute to college. I don’t live there. I have a lot of friends at school but I don’t do anything outside of class. Now that I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized what I missed out on.

At night, I have to wear Night Rangers and a hand brace to stretch my legs and my hand. My dad has to come in every night and help me untangle my sheets. The braces get caught in the sheets. I never sleep through the night. I have to inconvenience my dad to help me. He has to get up at six in the morning and he gets home at twelve at night because he has to work overtime.

Whenever we have to leave the house, it has to be planned because we have the wheelchair. Life can’t be spontaneous.”

RD’s Vaccine Court Battle

In the United States, the government has created an underutilized database, known as the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), to keep track of reactions to vaccinations.

Due to rising litigation against vaccine manufacturers in the 1970s and 1980s, and the large awards the vaccine manufacturers were having to pay to those who were injured by vaccines, many vaccine manufacturers began to leave the vaccine market.  In response to this situation, in 1986, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) was passed.  This legislation shielded the vaccine manufacturers from liability that resulted from administration of a vaccination. One of the intents of this program was to compensate victims of vaccine injury fairly, quickly and efficiently.  [4]

This program has awarded approximately $3.4 billion to individuals and families who have suffered vaccine injury and death. These awards are funded by taxes on vaccines. [5]

It should be noted that, after the Vaccine Act was passed in 1986, shielding the vaccine manufacturers from liability, the CDC modified the childhood immunization schedule, greatly increasing the number of vaccines American children receive. In 1983, the CDC recommended 11 doses of 4 vaccines by the time a child was 16.  Today the CDC recommends that a child receive 49 doses of 14 vaccines by the age of six. [6, 7]

RD explained his experience with the process of requesting compensation through vaccine court:

“I find that a lot of people don’t know that the government has a program to compensate people with vaccine injuries. Not many people know that and they are shocked and surprised when they find out.

I think that getting more information out about vaccine court is important. The fund is actually funded by taxpayers; $.75 of each vaccine goes into the fund.

Quite honestly, too, the vaccine court is all set up and they really need to do a much better job of properly compensating and treating the people who go through the vaccine compensation process. If they mandate the vaccine, they should really do a better job of treating people fairly. The maximum amount a family is entitled to for pain and suffering is $250,000.

There are many things that are just very backwards, that just don’t make sense, that you can’t believe are actually the law. You can’t fight anything and there is no jury because it is all laid out by a law.”

RD’s experience in vaccine court can only be described as a tragedy.  RD was a teenager going through this process as a Petitioner, hoping for an award that would enable him to have a walker, therapy appointments, and some compensation for the lost wages and pain he would face for the rest of his life. He watched helplessly as his requests were met with constant opposition from the lawyer who was representing HHS.

RD shared:

“The whole process was twisted; at first, the things the opposing lawyer and her team would do were screwed up, but not too bad. For example, there was one thing in the life care plan,that every five years, I would get two new walkers so I could keep one in the house and one in the car. They fought against it the whole way, until we backed down.

She said, ‘If I gave you two walkers, then I would have to give everyone two walkers.’ I didn’t realize having two walkers, that would have been $75 extra every five years, was a luxury.

This instance was head-scratching, but then things got worse, much worse. 

They said in the life care plan that I didn’t need a physical therapist. They said I could use an exercise DVD.

That was just insulting. It was insulting not only to me and my family, but to all physical therapists. There is no shape, way, or form that an exercise DVD will ever be able to replicate the trained eye of a licensed PT. The opposing lawyer later apologized and said no insult was ever intended. 

Toward the end of the case, we began mediation. Before the first meeting, we met with the mediator. We were told by the mediator to take emotion out of the case because they weren’t going to have it in the case. They really don’t care.”

A member of RD’s legal team commented, “In getting his award, the law firm, RD, and his family fought tooth and nail for things that he needs for his medical care.”

RD continued:

“There was one point in the case that the opposing lawyer cried and told me she wished she could give me the moon. She claimed she would give more money for home modifications if we had someone come for a home visit, to evaluate modifications we could make to our home environment.

Once she got the results, she strung us along for four more months and then she disregarded his advice and refused to give more money. It was very upsetting that she wasted our time like this.

But this kept happening. Things like this happened too much. It was very strange.

Toward the end of the case, right after the home mods incident, we had a final mediation. At the mediation, there was a letter that had to deal with lost wages. We discovered that she had been cherry picking numbers from the letter, to support what she believed my lost wages should be.

By using the proper numbers, not the ones she cherry-picked, I was entitled to much more money, but she refused to give me the full amount. She basically took away money for no apparent reason. If we questioned it, she would get angry and even threatened to drag the case along for many more years. 

Maybe the reason she treated me like this was because, at that point, I was nineteen, so maybe she didn’t care. Or maybe she didn’t like that I was intelligent and saw what she was doing to us. It was just unbelievable that she would push so hard against me.

To do this to a young man and his family who have gone through so much struggle and heartache, I believe you truly have to be a very special kind of person. And I’ll leave it at that.”

What RD and His Family Have Learned About Vaccines

RD’s mom gave thought to words she would share with families who are making decisions about whether or not to vaccinate their children:

“There’s a whole population of people who are affected by vaccines. If anybody really wants to know, they should go to a spinal cord injury center and they would probably be able to find a multitude of people who have been affected by vaccines.

Most of the people, the physical therapists, are wearing masks because the flu vaccine is mandatory and they don’t want to get the flu vaccine. They work with people who are there with injuries because of vaccines.

The doctors, for some reason, if they don’t get the vaccines, they will be discredited.  They know what happens with the vaccines and they don’t want to put their body through that.

It’s a very controversial situation, the vaccines, too. A few years ago they had the measles outbreak. When they show somebody whose child was not vaccinated, they always show some crazy-looking person. 

I was very in tune and agitated with how they represented the people who don’t get vaccines. Patricia Finn was on CNN and she represented herself very well; 99 percent of the people they show in the news who don’t get vaccinated don’t look credible. They look like they wouldn’t be judged as someone who is making a conscious decision about their child.

I have to stay away when someone is putting something on social media about vaccines. It’s very agitating how people are representing vaccines.”

RD shared his own thoughts about vaccine injuries:

“People fail to realize there is a percentage of people who are suffering from vaccine injuries. Either they don’t believe you can get a vaccine injury, or someone who gets a vaccine injury, and they don’t realize you can actually get vaccine injuries.

I feel that if you present that [the results of three separate, conclusive medical tests] to any fair minded person, they should be able to put two and two together and know that the vaccines caused the myelitis.

I will never get another vaccine and my sister won’t. It’s very scary that they are trying to mandate things, forcing people to take medication or inject things into their bodies.”

RD’s mom stated, with frustration evident in her voice:

“It’s poison. They are telling people what they have to do. It’s like playing Russian roulette. They don’t care.”

RD added, speaking about the benefit of acquiring natural immunity, rather than the temporary ‘protection’ of vaccination, “If you get chicken pox naturally, your body will recognize it for the rest of its life.”

He stated:

“People believe that it’s this thing that should never be questioned. It’s very amazing that the opposition to it is just stifled so much. People are called lunatics if they actually question and bring forward the truth.”

RD, speaking with wisdom gained through painful experience, advised parent and teens:

“Never just believe the doctor. Always find out what the side effects are. See if you should be tested if you even need the vaccine. I would say no, but if you are being forced or mandated, see if you can get tested first for antibodies, or don’t get the vaccine at all.”

RD’s mother shared her own advice for families who are deciding whether or not to vaccinate:

“I would definitely want to be tested first for antibodies. I feel that, according to our case, the pain and the injury outweigh [the benefits of] the vaccine.”

RD concluded:

“It wasn’t worth the years of suffering and continued suffering is not worth [missing] three days of being itchy with the chicken pox.”

What To Do If Your Child Is Vaccine-Injured

Even though health care providers are required by law to report vaccine injuries, it is estimated that only 1-10% of adverse reactions to vaccines are actually reported.

Parents may not know that common reactions to vaccines, including fevers, long bouts of crying, or rashes following vaccination should be reported to their child’s doctor. When a more serious adverse event occurs, parents may be too overwhelmed to make sure a report is filed.

If your child is injured after a vaccine, inform your child’s healthcare provider immediately. If your child’s doctor will not file a report, you can file a claim yourself.  However, it is recommended to retain an attorney who is familiar with this process and the requirements of the program.  The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program pays for legal fees and reasonable costs in pursuit of a vaccine injury claim.

If you would like to learn more about this government program, you may wish to read The Scary Facts Most Parents Don’t Know About Vaccine Injury Compensation.

RD’s attorney, Patricia Finn, known as “the good health lawyer,” is a vaccine injury and exemption attorney based in New York who has represented thousands of families with exemption matters and has been representing vaccine injury victims in Vaccine Court for more than ten years.  She advises individuals and parents, “If you believe you have been injured by a vaccine, seek medical treatment and call our office to see if you are eligible to file a claim for vaccine injury in the Vaccine Court.”

Conclusion

Doctors often assure parents that vaccines are safe, using phrases like “one in a million” and “rare” to describe adverse reactions. Yet, with sad stories like RD’s, thousands of adverse events reported to VAERS, and the creation of a special court for vaccine injuries, informed parents know those vaccine safety claims are simply not true.

If you have not already done so, please consider the overall safety of vaccinations. A federal program has awarded billions of dollars, through an arduous, emotionally painful process, to people whose family members have suffered injury or death at the legally protected hands of pharmaceutical companies.

If vaccines are so safe, why do we need federal programs to compensate victims, meanwhile protecting the vaccine makers?

References:

  1. https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010vv0566-82
  2. https://myelitis.org/living-with-myelitis/disease-information/#tm
  3. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/transverse-myelitis…
  4. http://www.historyofvaccines.org/…vaccine-injury-compensation-programs
  5. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html
  6. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/images/schedule1983s.jpg
  7. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

Photo Credit

Missy Fluegge
 

Missy Fluegge is the mom of three children who have taught her abundantly about life, more than she learned in over sixteen years of formal schooling. Her passions include mothering, teaching fine arts, researching and serving as a parent educator. Many years ago, she traded her nightstand for a bookshelf, which always holds at least a dozen books-in-progress, mostly non-fiction reads that support her fairytale notion of saving the world one person at a time.

  • Fernesque Golan

    Unfortunately, these tragedies will continue. There is no incentive for the pharmaceutical corporations to change their act. They make billions poisoning people, convincing frightened mothers that they are not caring parents if they do not poison their kids. The vaccines are useless and totally unnecessary that is why they HAVE to be mandated, because no one would show up to get them.

    Out of the billions in profits, the vaccine manufacturers do not have to spend one thin dime of their profits on their negligence. They made sure that it was taxpayer money that would bail them out. And, as noted in RD’s case, it is the government that handles the dispensing of public money. But, they make you think it is coming out of their pockets the way they make you fight for every last cent.

    The real crime is the CDC complicity, along with government complicity, and the vaccine manufacturers, all getting together to form a criminal enterprise to bilk the people out of billions of dollars each year. These billions turn into trillions over the years.

    The insidiousness of this scheme is that the authorities know there vaccines are useless and unnecessary, but why kill the goose that lays the golden egg. There is enough controversy concerning vaccines that should send up red flags all over the place before subjecting themselves or their children to medical malpractice.

    The pharmaceutical companies know that it is a numbers game. Everyone suffers adverse effects from vaccines from mild to severe. Vaccines do not help your immune system, they break it down. This is the most common effect people suffer which only shows up after time, so it goes unnoticed by all. In the case of severe problems, most people do not know of the “Vaccine Court” and if they do, the government will pull out all of the stops, spending more money to deny the victims of any compensation.

    It is quite obvious given the fact that a “shield” law was passed to protect this scam. But, people do not pay attention or question their elected reps, so these unjust mandatory laws get passed. The “shield law should have been the people’s first clue of what was coming down the pike at them.

    As RD says, he life was ruined because his parents were convinced that a few days in bed scratching the itchy pox was worse than playing Russian Roulette. What they also weren’t told that gaining a natural immunity from the disease is much more complete than artificial immunity through a vaccine that contains many other questionable ingredients. They could be putting anything they want into these vaccines and the sheep will willingly line up to take a chance. Look at what they did in Africa. In the tetanus vaccination program, they were including birth control chemicals in the shots.

    The pharmaceutical companies and the CDC are not to be trusted and anyone who does, is a fool.

  • Anke Zimmermann

    This story was hard to read and my heart goes out to this young man and his family. Of course the whole system needs to be changed and these injuries prevented, but It may be of interest to some readers to note that in cases like this quick intervention with homeopathy could help.

    This young man displayed a set of symptoms that could have responded well to a homeopathic remedy called Hypericum perforatum, a homeopathic preparation of St John’s Wort, which is specifically indicated for nerve injuries.

    I have successfully used it in my practice for someone developing Guillain-Barre syndrome after a vaccination and similar cases. If homeopathy was integrated into conventional medicine this young man could have received this as soon as he went into the hospital.

  • Wayne Rohde

    After reading the entitlement decision, the court docket, and the final damages decision, my question is why this took nearly 4 years to get to damages. The family was reimbursed some for their out of pocket expenses, but who shouldered the actual monetary costs while this petition was awaiting final adjudication? The family’s private insurance? State Medicaid? This is an example of the hidden cost that many do not know about.

  • Web Watchers

    If vaccines are so safe, why do we need federal programs to compensate victims, meanwhile protecting the vaccine makers?

    And I ask more:

    If vaccines are so great, why are they mandated?
    If vaccines are so safe, why is big pharma immune to liability?
    If vaccines are so great, why does big pharma need to feed the legislators? Follow the money.
    Why all the deceptions and lies?
    Why do the taxpayers have to be burdened with paying damages and not the pharma producers?

  • iReadReferences

    What you said:
    “According to Mayo Clinic, vaccines are a primary cause of transverse myelitis, and doctors are trained to ask patients who are seeking treatment if they have recently been vaccinated. Hepatitis B vaccines, measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccines, and diphtheria-tetanus (Tdap) vaccines have been implicated in causing cases of transverse myelitis. [3]”

    What Mayo Clinic actually says under Symptoms and causes of Transverse Myelitis about vaccines:
    “Vaccinations for infectious diseases — including hepatitis B, measles-mumps-rubella and diphtheria-tetanus vaccines — have occasionally been associated as a possible trigger. However, at this time the association is not strong enough to warrant limiting any vaccine.”
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/transverse-myelitis/symptoms-causes/dxc-20266688

    Your statement is not supported by your cited reference.

    Thank you for the article; No medical intervention is completely risk free.

  • Seabreezes1

    I have found that when health and government websites are quoted in a way that casts doubt on their organization policy, those webpages are updated with softer language or are removed from publication.

  • Jesus baby

    So it’s okay to misrepresent what Mayo actually says?

  • bev

    Call your representatives and demand accountability for vaccine injuries. Also demand that the whistle blower case involving CDC fraud over the MMR be heard …it’s been way too long. Big pharma has too much power in this country.

  • h5mind

    People tend to forget that “behind every great fortune, there lies a crime”. Look at how much Americans pay (literally and figuratively) for our pharma-dependent culture- we are 5% of the world’s population, but take 50% of its drugs! Our media is saturated with ads for the latest “wunderdrug” to grow longer eyelashes (but may cause blindness), treat depression (may lead to suicide), and will get that pesky high cholesterol under control without abandoning those GMO foods you crave. The revolving door between the FDA and Big Pharma will ensure you and I are never given the whole truth about the safety of anything which we ingest. But lobbyists will continue to sponsor legislation that demand your children receive dozens of vaccines whether you have any concerns or not- because “it’s for your own good”. Speaking as the parent of a vaccine-damaged son, I have run the gamut of the lies, innuendo, and half-truths of the ‘Chemical Lobby’, and am literally sick of it.

  • Johnny Canuck

    I’m amazed that anybody could get compensation from those dirt-bags.

  • Sink Chicken

    Settlement paid by the American Taxpayer, Not the Pharma company

  • Bluesky

    You’re better off taking you chances with disease. The recent Mumps outbreak was in vaccinated children. Their solution one more round of mumps vaccine

  • Paul Fassa

    Of course the Mayo Clinic words the risk that way – they’re all on the same false premise page of vaccines are effective and safe – just like you are probably.

  • Paul Fassa

    In which state does this family live? They should seriously consider a proper cannabis treatment protocol.

  • Jesus baby

    Cannabis for transverse myelitis, huh?

  • There is a simple thing called independent research; have you ever ever done any?

    Spinal Cord Disease – Medical Marijuana Research Overview
    http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/spinal-cord-disease-medical-marijuana-research/

  • The program is funded through vaccines: There’s a 75-cent charge for each vaccine administered. As of the end of fiscal year 2013, the program boasted a nearly $3.3 billion fund, according to the GAO. (Which is likely to be and of course, much higher by now)

    It applies to all vaccines that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends for routine administration to children

    http://www.scpr.org/blogs/health/2014/12/16/17684/the-government-compensates-those-injured-by-vaccin/

    The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program: A Failed Experiment in Tort Reform?
    http://www.nvic.org/injury-compensation/vaccineinjury.aspx

    Vaccine Injury Compensation Data
    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/

    https://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/

  • Jesus baby

    Independent research is googling “transverse myelitis cannabis” and copy-pasting the first result? From a company called medicalmarijuanainc.com? A conglomeration of cannabis sellers? Typical Hubbs.

  • And in your deliberate ignorance you do not find this to be significant, and worth any persons interest, and which has, transverse myelitis? As stated in the article.

    Findings: Effects of Cannabis on Spinal Cord Disease
    Cannabis helps patients of spinal cord diseases manage their symptoms. Studies have shown that medical cannabis can improve pain, sleeping problems, bladder control, spasticity, muscle twitching and depression commonly associated with spinal cord diseases (Amtmann, et al., 2004) (Carter, Abood, Aggarwal & Weiss, 2010).

    Research has solidified cannabis’ ability to reduce muscle spasms in patients with spinal cord diseases (Lakhan & Rowland, 2009) (Syed, McKeage & Scott, 2014). In one study, patients with a spinal cord disease experienced pain relief and an improvement in bladder control and muscle spasms and spasticity after two weeks of cannabis treatment (Wade, et al., 2003). In another, rats with spinal cord injuries saw improvements in locomotor functional recovery and the researchers concluded that the findings suggested cannabis to be potentially useful in the treatment of spinal cord lesions (Kwiatkoski, Guimaraes & Del-Bel, 2012).

    In addition, multiple animal trials have demonstrated that the administration of cannabis can prolong the survival of neurons and slow the progression of spinal cord disease’s like ALS (Bilsland, et al., 2006) (Carter, Abood, Aggarwal & Weiss, 2010) (Raman, et al., 2004).

    http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/spinal-cord-disease-medical-marijuana-research/

  • Jesus baby

    Lowell, pick the single best study you can find proving cannabis helps people with transverse myelitis. What you keep copy/pasting is an advertisement loaded with 🍒-picking trying to look like a legitimate review article. It certainly has suckered you, though.

  • I never said there was a single best study. What I said is that there is obviously hope in treatment for those with such spinal conditions, and which may be found in the use of cannabis and particularly, cannabis oil. Even if all that were accomplished were better treating of the symptoms, that would be something most of those people with such conditions, would and should obviously be interested in.

    The real sucker is you; just keep praising and bowing to your worshiped Lord, Big Pharma.

  • Jesus baby

    I’m just showing that you don’t know how to research science, Lowell. It’s like you posting Mercola advertisements a couple of months ago to prove other sunscreens have toxins.
    And what about your little shill investigation? You said you’d identified a “funder”, remember? You’ve been awfully quiet about that. I wonder why. Oh yeah, you were just talking out of your a$$ again.

  • And your post is again just another load of twisted bullshit. And you are owed no information whatsoever in regard to that knowledge and investigation; and I am not the person that has that direct knowledge of it. I don’t operate, alone; and which I know you are aware of.

  • Jesus baby

    You don’t “operate”, Lowell. You’re just a rube with internet access on some horribly misguided crusade. Or something.

  • Ron Roy

    ”From a company called medicalmarijuanainc.com? A conglomeration of cannabis sellers?”
    You dare be critical of a company that conducts research on a product it sells when you promote vaccines and drugs from companies that conduct their own research and studies on their own products?

  • Ron Roy

    You’re the one on a horribly misguided crusade. Lowell tries to save babies form the poisons you promote. Grow a conscience.

  • Ron Roy

    ”Big pharma has too much power in this country.” And almost every other country. It’s tentacles are growing.

  • Ron Roy

    ”No medical intervention is completely risk free.” But none so damaging as vaccines.

  • Jonathan Graham

    And you are owed no information whatsoever in regard to that knowledge and investigation;

    Translation: Made up

    I am not the person that has that direct knowledge of it.

    Translation:I am using something on the internet to fuel my delusion.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You dare be critical

    Ron, just so we’re clear. Nothing is sacred. Everyone should dare. If the only argument you have is “how dare you”. You should shut up until you have something that means something.

  • Jesus baby

    Ron, you and Lowell are equally inept when it comes to looking at science. Neither of you has the background for it – you just google. So tell us what research medicalmarijuanainc.com has done. (they don’t do research)

  • Jesus baby

    Is he trying to redeem his soul or something?

  • D Davis

    Why are you posting here? It’s clear you are a pharma shill, go away.

  • Jesus baby

    I post here for entertainment purposes only. You seem like a troll.

  • As I said, I do not operate alone. Is there something about that, you don’t get; you seriously twisted and sick man? Go ask your shill buddy character name David, who is doing that funding. He has already admitted to it, but may not be the only source.

  • Just more blatant lies. So putting forth the vaccine truth, and so parents and individuals can make informed choices, is a misguided crusade? There could be nothing more stupid, evil, and misguided than the denial you make as to the serious risks in regard to vaccines, and the current CDC vaccine schedule.

    Really? Tell who is actually, horribly misguided …you delusional …fool?

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    Vaccine Market Size Projected To Reach $77.5 Billion By 2024
    https://www.grandviewresearch.com/press-release/global-vaccine-market

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

    GLOBAL VACCINE MARKET: RAPID
    GROWTH and CHANGING STATUS
     Tripled in value from USD 5B in 2000 to almost USD 24 B in 2013
    – Influenza vaccine market: estimated at $2.9 billion in 2011 to $3.8 billion by 2018
    – US : $1.6 billion in 2011 to $2.2 billion in 2018
     Global market projected to rise to USD 100 B by 2025
     More than 120 new products in the development pipeline
     60 are of importance for developing countries
     Vaccines: becoming an engine for the pharmaceutical industry
     Changing status of the vaccines within the pharmaceutical industry
     New business model for vaccines is emerging?

    Read more:
    http://who.int/influenza_vaccines_plan/resources/session_10_kaddar.pdf

    There are 271 New Vaccines in Big Pharma’s Pipeline (with now with no legal liability risk since 1987, and for anyone at all from vaccine manufacturers, to the providers)
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/there-are-271-new-vaccines-in-big-pharmas-pipeline/

    United States Tracks Children to Push Gardasil Vaccine – Rest of the World Becoming Skeptical

    by Jefferey Jaxen
    Health Impact News

    Parents Receive Letters from State Strongly Urging HPV Shots for Their Tracked Children

    The United States continues to carelessly move forward with the HPV vaccine Gardisal. Meanwhile, due to its endless damage, the shot is the center of criminal lawsuits in Spain, India, France, Japan and many other countries. In the UK, the HPV vaccination push has 8,228 official reports of side-effects, almost more than all other vaccine reports combined. Dr. Dalbergue, a former pharmaceutical industry physician with Gardisal manufacturer Merck gave a 2104 interview stating that: “Gardisal is useless and costs a fortune” as well as predicting “Gardisal will become the greatest medical scandal of all times…” Ignoring data and worldwide protest, The Departments of Health within U.S. states are now sending letters to parents advising their children to submit to HPV vaccinations. With no prior announcement, parental consent given, or notice, the states of New York and Indiana have tracked HPV vaccine non-compliers and are now hassling them with physical letters.

    Read more…
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/united-states-tracks-children-to-push-gardasil-vaccine-rest-of-the-world-becoming-skeptical/

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    Informed Consent / Vaccine Risks Disclosure Form
    http://www.vacfacts.info/informed-consent–vaccine-risks-disclosure-form.html

  • So for entertainment you enjoy making denial of all the vaccine injured children, and as well those who suffer vaccine injury and serious disability, after the vaccine Gardasil? What kind of sick mind would enjoy that? Clearly you do not know anything about vaccines. You have never provided at any time anything at all to support the pro-vax agenda, but yet you keep getting paid to post your only repeatedly antagonizing posts here, again and again, anyway. If you want to claim to not being paid, then perhaps you should tell us what your real agenda is here.

  • Jesus baby

    Vaccine truth involves understanding germ theory, which you don’t, Lowell. You don’t even believe viruses exist. How could you ever comprehend vaccines without that knowledge? Why don’t you do something worthwhile with your life before your time runs out?

  • Jesus baby

    Lowell, the chances of significant vaccine injury are less than 1 in a million. Literally. WTF are you even talking about? How did you get this way?

  • It is actually you that has no proper understanding of the germ theory, and with or without the microzyme issue included. As you know the microzme issue has never been re-addressed and nor re-studied since the day and time of Bechamp and Pasteur.

    In all that I have posted in front of you, you should have been able to clearly realize and see that there are, and exist some obviously significant issues within the available science that have never been answered and/or resolved. You were provided directly the reference material in which that was explained. I did not personally say viruses do not exist, and just because the information provided to you strongly suggested that there is no evidence for it. I asked you to show me the proof and evidence for viruses as they exist. You couldn’t do it. What I have been saying is that there obvious reasons to question what we have been told within the standard big pharma based medical circles; and that the needed study research again, has never been done.

    The issue of existing vaccine risk and effectiveness has at this point in time in our history; as to vaccine risk; no longer even revolves around the questions of questionable vaccine effectiveness. The existing situation as to actual vaccine risk of injury and as well death; has dwarfed the known questions and the issues of effectiveness, and as well historically. Vaccine risk is exactly that and as to its subject matter. You can not adequately evaluate and determine the risk verses the benefits of vaccines, if you do not know of the real risks, and as well know of the real history as to vaccine effectiveness, and to the current day. You pro-vaxers and trolling shills have an entirely warped and backwards understanding and perception of the entire vaccine subject matter. Your understanding is all based on known decades and decades of false vaccine propaganda; all of it.

    So quite obviously here, it is you that has no ability to comprehend vaccines, and the vaccine issue, and for the reasons I just stated.

  • Wow, quite obviously there is no way for there to exist any thinking and rational thought process within your mind. You as well entirely and deliberately miss the point in regard to everything you reply to. What part of Ron’s post did you not comprehend? And as well you can not post even a single sentence as to and in refute of what was stated. As well you obviously defy and refuse to acknowledge and understand the concept of hypocrisy.

  • That was not the page link you were given. This is.
    http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/spinal-cord-disease-medical-marijuana-research/

    Did you see the list of studies on that page, and the call for clinical trials? Did you even read the information in the paragraphs that I had to copy and paste right in front of you?

    This was your first post on this issue, right here. So you again literally threw your false mockery and antagonizing attitude into the reply ring, again; and with that reply post. What I posted was simply putting it forth that there is indeed cause and reason to believe that it appears that cannabis, in this case CBD; is a potentially useful treatment for spinal cord related health conditions. The over-all message on that page is that although good results are being seen, and as well in studies, that more research needs to be done, and as well as clinical trials. If you are so all about the science, then why do you oppose this type of promotion of information; and why do you oppose further research; when the resulting benefits in alleviating human suffering may be quite significant. And here you are again just simply twisting it all around and rejecting it all, and of course simply because it is a natural substance, and not a big pharma chemical drug, regulated by the monopoly control of the corrupt FDA.

    Paul Fassa • a day ago
    In which state does this family live? They should seriously consider a proper cannabis treatment protocol.

    Jesus baby Paul Fassa • a day ago
    Cannabis for transverse myelitis, huh?

  • You already know very well what I am talking about. You scum bag shills would not be here trying to do damage control, if you didn’t know.

    I have already explained this quite clearly once already tonight in a reply post that I did. Your turn. Go ahead and tell me exactly your version or any other, of how the CDC arrived at that 1 in a million, risk ratio number? Explain it directly and precisely.

  • Jesus baby

    So you believe in viruses again, still don’t understand germ theory and still haven’t found any of Bechamp’s microzymes. Did I miss anything?

  • Jesus baby

    It’s the number of paid claims in vaccine court vs doses of vaccines given. It’s actually LESS than 1 in a million because the vaccine court favors the plaintiff. Tell you what, Lowell, see if you can name some injury or illness a child could suffer that could only come from a vaccine. I bet you can’t.

  • David

    You really do have a psychiatric disorder? Why do you think people would be here doing damage control. This site and yourself is a non player in the world.
    As I said , I love your site as a pro vaccine site
    We direct fence sitter to your site to show how delusional anti vaxxess like yourself are !
    HIV doesn’t cause aids
    911 was an inside job
    Viruses do not exist
    Vaccines cause autism

    And that is just the start of yours and others conspiracy theories. It is great to show just how crazy you and your brethren are !

  • Jesus baby

    Are you saying Medicalmarijuanainc.com does research? Ron thinks so. WTF are you arguing about?

  • Obviously you missed it all, and your brain conveniently and deliberately went on vacation when it was all explained and put in front of you. You know that is the only way that you can continue to re-post replies on the issue, and that requires that you twist it all around like a pretzel, and refuse to actually comprehend what is in front of you. It is called falsely, intentionally, and deliberately, antagonizing the opposing reply poster. You should go back to the funded “Shillary”, and request some new .. reply lines.

  • It is again interesting to read of your denial, desperation, and as well your twisted and false delusions. You clearly live in nothing but a denial filled, fantasy world.

  • Jesus baby

    If I’m falsely antagonizing am I not therefore assuaging? You mean that in a good way, right?

  • David

    I live in the fantasy world? Even you have to admit that your ideas go contrary to 99.9 percent of scientists and md in the world. So who lives in the fantasy world?
    Who is delusional?
    Delusions are false beliefs or unrealistic opinions held despite strong evidence against it

    So by definition you are the delusional one as your beliefs are contrary to every government, medical school, international organization etc in the world.

  • David

    Anyways, just don’t stop ranting. You are helping so many people choose to vaccinate. It is awesome. Maybe you are actually a cleverly hidden pro vax proponent that through their delusions and rants are helping the public make the correct choice
    Maybe we all owe you a debt of gratitude. Keep up the good work!

  • Jonathan Graham

    As I said, I do not operate alone.

    Translation: I pretend I have other people working with me.

    He has already admitted to it,

    Translation: I misread or misunderstood something in a way that fits with my biases.

  • Jonathan Graham

    What part of Ron’s post did you not comprehend?

    I understood it, perhaps better than he did.

  • Wrong. The strong evidence is actually against, you; and as well the existing scientific study evidence. As well in your case, the lack of it.

    And no, 99.9% of scientists and MD’s do not believe that the current CDC vaccine schedule, is safe and/or proven to be safe. If they are safe, as well why could you answer none of those 9 questions as to the existing vaccine safety science?

    Why don’t you take a double dose of Gardasil, and as well the new Gardasil 9, and report back to us how that went. You can as well take as well the entire CDC childhood vaccine schedule, as prescribed, but with the vaccine doses adjusted to your actual weight. Most adults are not vaccinated after childhood, so you need to do your part in maintaining that so called vaccine derived, herd immunity. Get your vaccinations all covered by a film crew and posted somewhere that the public has full access to it.

    VACCINE Videos
    paulthomasmd 21 videos
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlbmFg9on08Punr2J3zSJ6L3r4oWPrFCz

    Parents Right to VACCINE INFORMED CONSENT | Dr. Paul’s Senate Testimony (Paul is a Pediatrician)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNQVdOx87Ak

    Dr. Paul Thomas, M.D. – Preserve Medical Freedom – Vaccines Linked to Autism
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/dr-paul-thomas-m-d-preserve-medical-freedom-vaccines-linked-to-autism/

    Warning to Pregnant Mothers – Toxic Dose of Aluminum in the Tdap
    Dr. Paul Thomas
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoY6vXEMsU8

    Doctors who do not support vaccines.
    Doctors who explain clearly why vaccines aren’t safe or effective.

    1. Dr. Nancy Banks – http://bit.ly/1Ip0aIm
    2. Dr. Russell Blaylock – http://bit.ly/1BXxQZL
    3. Dr. Shiv Chopra – http://bit.ly/1gdgh1s
    4. Dr. Sherri Tenpenny – http://bit.ly/1MPVbjx
    5. Dr. Suzanne Humphries – http://bit.ly/17sKDbf
    6. Dr. Larry Palevsky – http://bit.ly/1LLEjf6
    7. Dr. Toni Bark – http://bit.ly/1CYM9RB
    8. Dr. Andrew Wakefield – http://bit.ly/1MuyNzo
    9. Dr. Meryl Nass – http://bit.ly/1DGzJsc
    10. Dr. Raymond Obomsawin – http://bit.ly/1G9ZXYl
    11. Dr. Ghislaine Lanctot – http://bit.ly/1MrVeUL
    12. Dr. Robert Rowen – http://bit.ly/1SIELeF
    13. Dr. David Ayoub – http://bit.ly/1SIELve
    14. Dr. Boyd Haley PhD – http://bit.ly/1KsdVby
    15. Dr. Rashid Buttar – http://bit.ly/1gWOkL6
    16. Dr. Roby Mitchell – http://bit.ly/1gdgEZU
    17. Dr. Ken Stoller – http://bit.ly/1MPVqLI
    18. Dr. Mayer Eisenstein – http://bit.ly/1LLEqHH
    19. Dr. Frank Engley, PhD – http://bit.ly/1OHbLDI
    20. Dr. David Davis – http://bit.ly/1gdgJwo
    21. Dr Tetyana Obukhanych – http://bit.ly/16Z7k6J
    22. Dr. Harold E Buttram – http://bit.ly/1Kru6Df
    23. Dr. Kelly Brogan – http://bit.ly/1D31pfQ
    24. Dr. RC Tent – http://bit.ly/1MPVwmu
    25. Dr. Rebecca Carley – http://bit.ly/K49F4d
    26. Dr. Andrew Moulden – http://bit.ly/1fwzKJu
    27. Dr. Jack Wolfson – http://bit.ly/1wtPHRA
    28. Dr. Michael Elice – http://bit.ly/1KsdpKA
    29. Dr. Terry Wahls – http://bit.ly/1gWOBhd
    30. Dr. Stephanie Seneff – http://bit.ly/1OtWxAY
    31. Dr. Paul Thomas – http://bit.ly/1DpeXPf
    32. Many doctors talking at once – http://bit.ly/1MPVHOv
    33. Dr. Richard Moskowitz – http://bit.ly/1OtWG7D
    34. Dr. Jane Orient – http://bit.ly/1MXX7pb
    35. Dr. Richard Deth – http://bit.ly/1GQDL10
    36. Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic – http://bit.ly/1eqiPr5
    37. Dr Chris Shaw – http://bit.ly/1IlGiBp
    38. Dr. Susan McCreadie – http://bit.ly/1CqqN83
    39. Dr. Mary Ann Block – http://bit.ly/1OHcyUX
    40. Dr. David Brownstein – http://bit.ly/1EaHl9A
    41. Dr. Jayne Donegan – http://bit.ly/1wOk4Zz
    42. Dr. Troy Ross – http://bit.ly/1IlGlNH
    43. Dr. Philip Incao – http://bit.ly/1ghE7sS
    44. Dr. Joseph Mercola – http://bit.ly/18dE38I
    45. Dr. Jeff Bradstreet – http://bit.ly/1MaX0cC
    46. Dr. Robert Mendelson – http://bit.ly/1JpAEQr
    47. Dr. Garth Nicolson – http://bit.ly/1OQVJsF
    48. Dr. Marc Girard – http://bit.ly/1iw0smT
    49. Dr. Charles Richet – http://bit.ly/1G5GG7j
    50. Dr. Zac Bush – http://bit.ly/1LS19OZ
    51. Dr. Judy Mikovits – http://bit.ly/2cWCO0F
    52. Dr. Dianne Harper – http://bit.ly/2daeglv
    53. Dr. James Lyons-Weiler – http://ipaknowledge.org/

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/natural-mommalynn/doctors-speak-on-vaccines/1704683763076406

    Hundreds more doctors testifying that vaccines aren’t safe or effective, in these documentaries….

    1. Vaccination – The Silent Epidemic – http://bit.ly/1vvQJ2W

    2. The Greater Good – http://bit.ly/1icxh8j

    3. Shots In The Dark – http://bit.ly/1ObtC8h

    4. Vaccination The Hidden Truth – http://bit.ly/KEYDUh

    5. Vaccine Nation – http://bit.ly/1iKNvpU

    6. Vaccination – The Truth About Vaccines – http://bit.ly/1vlpwvU

    7. Lethal Injection – http://bit.ly/1URN7BJ

    8. Bought – http://bit.ly/1M7YSlr

    9. Deadly Immunity – http://bit.ly/1KUg64Z

    10. Autism – Made in the USA – http://bit.ly/1J8WQN5

    11. Beyond Treason – http://bit.ly/1B7kmvt

    12. Trace Amounts – http://bit.ly/1vAH3Hv

    13. Vaxxed: From Cover-up to Catastrophe – http://www.vaxxed.com/home/

    14. Why We Don’t Vaccinate – http://bit.ly/1KbXhuf

    15. Best Explanation of the Vaccine/Autism Link –
    http://bit.ly/2cIsprx

  • David

    Let’s go on the news. You can inject vaccines in me and I will inject the HIV virus in you. Because it doesn’t cause AIDS right?

    Oh yeah, viruses don’t exist
    And the earth is flat
    And 911 was an inside job
    And Chem trails are a government ploy to make us sick

    And other conspiracy theories to add.

  • Really? And you can’t possibly in any honesty be that stupid; or are you. As for vaccine injury and the resulting outcome, that parental personal account of it taking place evidence. is everywhere. Actually do some independent research. I am not even going to waste my time with the falsely antagonizing stupidity and the ignorance filled absurdity of that question.

    Even if that were used, quite clearly that would again be a gross underestimation of the actual existing number, and the rate of vaccine injuries.

    Take a look.

    Anyone and everyone that has a vaccine injured child, and that has experienced this federal court system, knows exactly how corrupt and unfair it is. How is it that you can in your mind find acceptable and justify 10,140 claims for vaccine injury, being dismissed in that court? Well known as well is that a large majority of valid claims for vaccine injury, are never filed by the parents, and with that said court. So how in any way can that even be thought of as an accurate set of data to determine the number and the rate of vaccine injuries? It is obviously, a preposterous claim.

    How many petitions have been awarded compensation?

    According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2014 over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 3,658 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 2,301 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.

    Since 1988, over 17,658 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 15,221 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,018 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,140 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.5 billion.

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/statisticsreport.pdf

    Vaccine Injury Compensation: A Failed Experiment in Tort Reform?
    http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/November-2008/Thursday,-November-20,-2008-Vaccine-Injury-Compens.aspx

    http://www.nvic.org/faqs/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx

    Vaccine Injuries and Deaths Continue to Increase in Federal Vaccine Court
    https://healthimpactnews.com/2015/vaccine-injuries-and-deaths-continue-to-increase-in-federal-vaccine-court/

    https://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/

    CDC employee flips off a mother of a vaccine injured child. This is how quaking for their jobs, evil, and cold hearted they really are.
    https://www.facebook.com/VaxXed/videos/768793643263677/?pnref=story

    VaxXed Meets Paul Offit
    Published on Nov 21, 2016

    Joshua Coleman sees Paul Offit eating breakfast in New York on November 21, 2016 and approaches him for a polite conversation. Paul wasn’t up for it. Camera and editing by Joshua Coleman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAJdyPNWnA

    Senator Richard Pan runs from Vaxxed producer’s questioning
    https://vimeo.com/166083184

    SACRAMENTO SENATOR PAN RUNS AWAY FROM VAXXED MOVIE PRODUCERS
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/sacramento-senator-pan-runs-away-from-vaxxed-movie-producers

  • Obviously you did not, and intentionally.

  • Either you entirely don’t have a clue; or you actually do, and that post is intended as only further antagonizing. Which is it?

  • What a load of BS. Go ahead and frame that post and put it in the pro-vaccine twisted and delusional liars, hall of shame. I almost pity you living in your entirely delusional world. Perhaps what you really mean is thank you for all the cause and reasons that the trolling shills keep getting their funding money.

  • Nothing about you is considered as being in a good way.

  • Quit trying to beat a dead horse and make it run. You lose on this issue, period. You refuse to be wrong, and you as well refuse to admit to your own asinine deliberate ignorance, and stupidity.

    You can clearly see on that page, that a significant amount of research has been done; and it does not matter who did the research that is stated on that page, and as having been done.

  • Jesus baby

    ” I am not even going to waste my time with the falsely antagonizing stupidity and the ignorance filled absurdity of that question.”
    Translation: I can’t name a single injury a person could only get from a vaccine.
    But you certainly wasted your time link-spamming, didn’t you? It’s the #1 Hubbsian defense method.

  • Jesus baby

    How is not being antagonistic a bad thing Hubbsie? I mean, you said it.

  • David

    With all your obsessions and delusions I am sure you have had multiple psych evaluations. Are you off your meds again?

  • I have never stated that HIV does not cause AIDS. There are some sources that have made the claim that it does not. I have never made any statement in regard to that specific subject matter; other than that it appears that very likely HIV contaminated or was deliberately added to vaccines used in countries such as Haiti, etc. There is plenty of info in regard to that; actually research it. My focus is on vaccines, and not specifically the actually unrelated HIV issue. I do hope they never successfully approve an HIV vaccine, and because it would be impossible to make that vaccine safe for the general public.

    The earth is obviously round like the globe, and that you can see as an example of the earth.

    If you think that 9-11 was ever properly investigated and that there are not left many serious unanswered questions, then you have to be as blindly ignorant as any human being can ever get.

    Chemtrails do exist and the evidence of it is plainly obvious if you could ever get honest for long enough to accept it. So you are actually that sheeple ignorant that you can not determine the difference between a chemtrail that doesn’t disappear, and verses a condensation contrail, that disappears? Its anyone’s guess as to what is really going on with that, and as to its goal.

    Now, as for honest and informed people; who actually looks stupid here? You or me?

  • David

    Can you please post another YouTube video. Keep it a little shorter though. It is great for my classes and as I said to show vaccine hesitant parents.

  • Providing evidence and educational information is never a waste of time; and the two issues are clearly unrelated. #1 Jesusbabian covering up your twisted ignorance, defense method.

  • How confused and sheeple dumb are the mislead people you are actually teaching? Your brainwashing techniques sound to be more than bit bizarre. Do they know that you are a liar?

  • No I don’t take meds and have absolutely no need for them. And no as well, I have had no psych evaluations.

    If that were true, do you actually think I would have created a page like this?

    Pharmakeia (aka sorceries) of Babylon
    http://www.vacfacts.info/pharmakeia-aka-sorceries-of-babylon.html

  • David

    My students are MD specialists who will be out in the world teaching and treating and making the world a better place
    While you sit in your chair with your delusions But as I said, keep ranting and raving.
    I’m sure if I come back here in a year or five years, you will still be cutting and pasting the same non peer reviewed crap.

  • David

    Yes that page does correspond to the ranting and ravings of an obsessive with delusional disorder who is not taking his prescribed medications.

  • Jesus baby

    Ronald is arguing that because medicalmarijuanainc.com does research they are as credible as pharmaceutical companies. They don’t do any research at all. You don’t get it, Lowell. You just keep throwing insults and spamming a medical marijuana advertisement.

  • And you are making it up as you go, liar. And really, where was I prescribed, and when? And how would that be possible when there exist no such prescriptions? By the way, that is a very powerful page and as to the truth as to those kind of drugs. And none of it is my information, but researched information, and with very direct informational movie videos as well. You hate the evidence of the truth, don’t you. So who actually has the real sickness going on here, you or me?

  • Jesus baby

    You’re spamming irrelevant crap because you can’t think of one injury a person can only get from a vaccine. You’re the worst anti-vaxxer in history, Lowell.

  • David

    Lowell the truth are by real studies published in peer reviewed papers. Maybe you should try to reform your arguement using real information not made up videos

    Well Lowell, I am in surgery again tomorrow, actually doing real work. So I do not have the luxury to just hang out like you do.

  • And again, I can clearly see how mislead, in denial, and delusional you are, and that you continue to be. You can not force anyone to face reality, that adamantly refuses to see and to face reality; so called, David.

    Benjamin Rush
    U.S. Founding Father, Signer of The Declaration of Independence
    (1746-1813)

    Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.

    http://www.all-creatures.org/quotes/rush_benjamin.html

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-country-with-medical-freedom-written-into-the-constitution

    Dr. Benjamin Rush warned about loss of medical freedom over 200 years ago
    http://www.naturalnews.com/034892_Benjamin_Rush_medical_freedom_Constitution.html

    PHARMA DEATH CLOCK
    http://www.pharmadeathclock.com/

    Medicine Kills Millions
    http://www.medicinekillsmillions.com/

    Death by Medicine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/death-by-medicine.html

    The Drug Story-A Factological History Of America’s $10,000,000,000 Drug Cartel, Its Methods, Operations, Hidden Ownership, Profits And Terrific Impact On The Health Of The American People.
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-drug-story—the-history-of-modern-medicine.html

    Pharmakeia (aka sorceries) of Babylon
    http://www.vacfacts.info/pharmakeia-aka-sorceries-of-babylon.html

    Soil/Terrain Theory -vs- The Germ-Theory of Illness and Disease
    http://www.vacfacts.info/soilterrain-theory–vs–the-germ-theory-of-illness-and-disease.html

    About GcMAF, (macrophage stimulating factor), in relation to human health
    http://www.vacfacts.info/about-gcmaf-macrophage-stimulating-factor-in-relation-to-human-health.html

  • Jesus baby

    Hubbs believes Morgellons disease not only exists but is caused by alien fibers spread by chemtrails.

  • That means that you have refused to accept and to face the evidence of truth, and instead you only continue to falsely harass and antagonize people. Get it yet, Jesusbabie? How about if you as well here just stopped being a coward, and use your real name and identity?

  • David

    So put me in contact with an MD who has seen the “truth” by reading your rants. The truth is that you are wasting your time.
    Have a good night Lowell. As I said, why don’t you do something useful with your time…volunteer at a soup kitchen, , clean a park.

  • You are such a desperate liar. Fibers have been stated to have been found, and to my knowledge the word alien only means of an unknown origin. The only known possible source has been determined to chemtrails. That is what the articles state, Mr Jesus mockery. I didn’t write the articles. So you don’t know the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail? Obviously not.

  • Jesus baby

    Again, Hubbles, if I falsely harass and falsely antagonize then I’m not doing either. I think you should try not using adverbs.
    Why do you want to know everyone’s identity all the time? The other day you were saying the message is the important thing, not the messenger. You posted a link saying that!

  • Jesus baby

    You copy/pasted the article, Hubba Bubba. Where do you think the aliens come from? Is it our solar system or another one?

  • Again, in your in denial and twisted mind, you are not the judge and nor the jury on anything at all here. My site worldwide gets nearly 5000 views per day, every day of the year. You have no idea how much informational influence that has had. And as well I get thank you’s and positive input all the time, as to what I do in regard to my activism. You can stick your head back in a sand hole and deny that all you want. You are an arrogant, seriously in denial, and obviously sick man; pure and simply there is no way for you to deny that. With a full time job I do not have time for cleaning any parks.

  • Really, and I essentially told you that question was the most ignorant question you could ever ask. If it is all so irrelevant, then why can’t you ever address and refute any of it? And by the way, perhaps you have heard of vaccine caused seizures, brain damage, neurological and immunological harm, autism, and a load of other conditions. But it just doesn’t happen, right? All of it was just a coincidence.

  • Lets see if you can stick to the posts that were posted on this article and not try to rehash posts from 6 articles ago. And what did I tell you in my post, and of course which now you have no choice but to ignore, and to just keep making false claims.

  • Then why aren’t you replying to Ron? It is absolutely irrelevant as to the origin of the research; they still put together an obviously informative and a good article. Your initial reply here was a stupid as it gets; just admit it. Obviously you love human misery and advocating for more of it, and just because nothing but pharma drugs are found as acceptable to you in the treatment of any human health condition. You can just limit yourself to that modality, then; but you have no right to attempt to influence that decision, and/or to tell anyone else to do the same thing. You don’t think that you actually believe anything you post; as you just get paid to post it. How else could anyone remain and be that dumb?

  • David

    Alright Lowell. I have to go to sleep –don’t want to be tired for surgery.
    You know what, I will leave you alone. I find you are a dangerous man as you spread misinformation. But at least you are not doing it for the money like a lot of your idols (sell books and products ).

  • Jesus baby

    “If it is all so irrelevant, then why can’t you ever address and refute any of it?”

    Because it is irrelevant, Lowell.

    “seizures, brain damage, neurological and immunological harm, autism, and a load of other conditions” – none of which are only from vaccines, Lowell. Try again.

  • Jesus baby

    Lowell, it’s perfectly relevant because it’s an example of how irrational and downright crazy you are. So you’re saying you believe in Morgellons disease, and that it’s caused by UNKNOWN fibers spread by chemtrails?

  • Jesus baby

    “Then why aren’t you replying to Ron?”
    I did reply to Ronald, but he’s up and disappeared again. Unlike you, when I own Ron he just goes away. You just hang around to insult, link-spam and play the pharma-shill gambit.
    Speaking of shills, how is your investigation going?

  • Jonathan Graham

    No Lowell, I did understand what Ron was saying. He’s simply incorrect. Ron’s major premise is likely that because someone considers research done through the various mechanisms that exist for drug approval and monitoring today then it’s intrinsically unreasonable to be critical of research being promoted or done by cannabinoid sellers.

    However since there’s room for one to have controls which produce lower quality evidence than the other. Ron’s position is that case would be incorrect.

    It’s also possible that Ron is simply arguing that in these two specific systems the cannabinoid sellers produce the better evidence. In which case his position is simply incomplete. He has not made an argument that makes that point.

    So as usual, I not only understand what I’m talking about and I can clearly demonstrate my position. Which again, illustrates the differences between you and me. You could have produced a detailed analysis explaining the various interpretations of what Ron wrote and how what I wrote could not encompass what Ron wrote but you didn’t all you did was make a vague assertion. Because, I suspect in essence you don’t know what you’re talking about. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry those are not mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive. Hence your position is incorrect. :-)

  • Louise Stanley

    Lowell – after spending (wasting) way too many hours arguing with a couple of commenters here: http://freetheanimal.com/2016/11/keep-crazy-hours.html

    I found a couple of statements in Jon Rappaport’s blog that diffused my need to make them understand my point of view:

    “People who place a high value on conformity and doing the expected in life don’t deserve the truth from you, unless you want to give it to them. If you’re pursuing a goal or direction beyond their capacity to understand, why should you be obligated to share it with them? Sharing truth is your choice. The cultural trend of ‘spilling everything to everyone all the time’ is a gimmick designed to make people equal, when in fact they aren’t. ‘Equal’ is really a fantasy. People aren’t the same. They never were.”

    “It doesn’t matter how the fact of your freedom affects anyone else. In the long run, you’re leaving a trace of what you have with others. They can react against it or for it in their own minds, but they’ll remember it. They’ll know, at some level, that they can assume freedom for themselves.”

    These people have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that they are unable to consider an alternate paradigm – that media/government HAVE been bought by the pharmaceutical industry. It would be too uncomfortable for them to even contemplate, so they hide their heads in the sand, behind a theory that was, at one time, actually viable but which is now crumbling because of inefficacy and the large doses of toxins and immune-dysregulating adjuvants being administered.

    Most of us come from pro-vaccine positions, but are no longer. Unfortunately, vaccine injury is often what it takes to wake people up to the actualities.

    As mandated compliance increases (and while doctors remain ignorant of aluminum/mercury poisoning symptoms and the consequences of the fairly common MTHFR deletions) more injury will surface until finally there will be no possibility of the media hiding it.

    Sooner or later, the truth will out.

  • Polak

    Mr Hubbs I went to your site and I could not see any evidence that those people had conducted any research.Can you provide alternative links.thanks.

  • Again, it does not matter who did the research. The articles is very informative, and exactly that which is needed by those with these said conditions. How much was your recent trolling shill pay check? Of course it was in cash, and delivered by the known delivery man. You shill people are all entirely subhuman, and seriously sick.

  • Really? I think that your twisted mind is entirely incorrect, and long past the mode of malfunction, and being in need of re-booting, after an obvious over-load of conflict of interest.

    If you believe that those that are “vaccine injured”, are “Anti-Vaccine”, then do also believe that those injured by faulty brakes, are “Anti-Brake”?

    http://memeful.com/meme/d6J7P9d

  • When you repeatedly lie about what you are claiming to, then credibility as to through providing your actual identity, and your conflicts of interest; indeed become a serious and obvious issue.

    Face it, you can actually answer, to nothing.

    If you believe that those that are “vaccine injured”, are “Anti-Vaccine”, then do also beleive that those injured by faulty brakes, are “Anti-Brake”?
    http://memeful.com/meme/d6J7P9d

    The brief basics of what a vaccine truther stands on. The term anti-vaxxer, is the most blatantly stupid label and term on the planet. Most all of us once believe exactly what were were told, and that vaccines prevented and eradicated illness. Even I once trusted and believed that if anything was harmful, the FDA surely would know about it. One day long ago I had reason to start questioning everything that the public is told. What I found was a monopoly style pharma based empire that controls all information, and as well everything that you are allowed have provided, as for health care. Within that system as well, no form of naturopathic and real health care is allowed to be viewed as anything other than unproven quackery. Let me ask you; WHO ARE THE REAL …FOR PROFIT …QUACKS?

    INTERVIEW WITH ANTI-VAXXER

    Q: So you’re an anti-vaxxer now?
    A: Yes.
    Q: Don’t you worry about your child getting sick from vaccine preventable diseases?
    A: No, not really. I actually have less fear of many of those illnesses now that I’ve done my research.
    Q: But what about polio?
    A: Polio is asymptomatic in over 90% of cases. When symptoms do present, they’re usually mild and flu-like.
    Q: But we don’t see iron lungs anymore because of vaccines.
    A: We don’t see iron lungs anymore for the same reason we don’t see computers that are large enough to take up an entire room. Technology has come a long way.
    Q: But even if the risk of getting something serious is small, don’t you want to protect your child with vaccines just in case?
    A: I do want to protect my child, and that is one reason I say no to vaccines. Because in my cost-benefit analysis, the chances of my child being harmed from vaccines is greater than the chances of my child being harmed from one of those illnesses.
    Q: But it’s not just about your child. It is your responsibility to vaccinate your child to protect immune compromised people through herd immunity.
    A: First and foremost, my responsibility is to my child. I will not set my child on fire to keep someone else warm. What parent would knowingly risk their child’s life for the sake of the herd? Would you? My child is not a human shield. Secondly, herd immunity is a myth. We do not have vaccine induced herd immunity and never have.
    Q: But don’t you think vaccines are a victim of their own success? They eradicated polio and other diseases, so you probably haven’t seen them thanks to vaccines.
    A: Correlation does not equal causation. The history of vaccines is more complex than that, and I no longer believe that vaccines can take the credit for eradicating any diseases. We have never had widespread vaccination for scarlet fever or typhoid, yet, they are no longer a threat. Amazing what sanitation can do. Polio has also not been eradicated. I may not have lived through the “polio” era, but I am living in a time with a different kind of epidemic. My child’s generation is the first to have a life expectancy that is less than that of their parents. People are sicker than ever with autoimmune diseases, deadly allergies, neurological problems, and cancer. We can not cling to a controversial problem of the past to make crucial decisions for today. We have to do something about the problems we are currently faced with, and giving more vaccines is not an acceptable solution.
    Q: Do the ingredients in vaccines concern you?
    A: Yes
    Q: You know there’s formaldehyde in pears, right? And mercury in tuna?
    A: When’s the last time you puréed a pear and some tuna, then injected it intramuscularly? We have a digestive system for a reason, and the mucosal tissue is one of the most important components of the human immune system. I don’t think bypassing those functions is without consequence. Ingestion and injection are not the same thing. It’s the same reason you can drink snake venom, but being bitten in the leg with the same venom can kill you.
    Q: But the science is settled and doctors and scientists agree that vaccines are necessary.
    A: Science is never settled. As history has shown, science can be dangerously wrong. It can also be heavily influenced by financial interests. And doctors and scientists do not all agree about vaccines. There are many doctors, nurses, immunologists, and researchers who are aware of the shortcomings of vaccines. And if we want to really discuss vaccine science, we need to demand that there be more of it, because vaccine science is severely lacking. It is the tobacco science of our time. The current vaccine schedule (which has more than tripled since vaccine manufacturers became protected from liability in 1986) has never been tested for safety. There hasn’t been a randomized double blind placebo controlled study comparing the outcomes of the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Vaccines are the epitome of quackery.’

    ️Thank you to Lea Kristen.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/greg-wyatt/interview-with-anti-vaxxer/10210112369758242

    Vaccines: The Holy Grail of Modern Medicine

    This is especially true in the vaccine movement right now, which seeks to greatly increase the number of vaccines required to immunize children and now even teenagers and adults. Hundreds of thousands of parents know first-hand that vaccines have either killed or permanently damaged their children (and this is even backed up by statistics in the VAERS – Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System – government database, as well as government payouts from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.) The medical establishment is aware of these side effects resulting in disabilities and deaths, but believes that these casualties are necessary for “the greater good” of society. Laws have been put in place to protect the manufacturers of vaccines from lawsuits, and a government compensation program was established to pay damages to those injured or killed by vaccines.

    While great wealth and profits are definitely tied into the vaccine and medical industry as a whole, I believe that the overriding motivation is a belief system, and not necessarily strictly a profit motive (although the profit motive is also a huge factor!) For vaccines, the belief is that if everyone is not vaccinated, dangerous viruses and diseases will spread through society and threaten life itself – the very existence of the human race.

    That belief, however, is not backed by objective science. It is simply a belief system, based on historical plagues and what future plagues could potentially do. It is a belief system that feeds on fear and makes no consideration that there is a God who has ultimate control over his creation. When one looks objectively at the history of diseases and vaccines, however, it is obvious that all these major diseases were already on the decline prior to the development of the vaccine, suggesting that God’s built-in natural immunity was sufficient, and probably superior, to vaccines. (See: An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases)

    Red more:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/medicine-idolatry-in-the-twenty-first-century-2/#sthash.CCPqbsWP.dpuf

    An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/an-honest-look-at-the-historical-evidence-that-vaccines-eliminated-diseases/

    God Does Not Support Vaccines
    http://www.livingwhole.org/god-does-not-support-vaccines/

    Biblical Reasons Not to Vaccinate, (Mary Tocco)
    http://childhoodshots.com/biblical-reasons-vaccinate/

    INDESCRIBABLY DISGUSTING VACCINE INGREDIENTS

    SO WHAT ABOUT THE FLY IN OUR SOUP?

    It may not do any harm at all, especially if it has been well heated in the soup!

    However, all injected substances including insect fragments bypass the body’s intricate defense mechanism. The same substances which are harmless when ingested are shown to be extremely detrimental to health when injected. This is learned by medical students and others, but many doctors, health authorities and other vaccine promoters appear to ignore this basic fact.

    Read more:
    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2012/01/indescribably-disgusting-vaccine.html

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    Really?

    Yes but I’m willing to wager you don’t understand what in English “mutually exclusive” and “collectively exhaustive” mean when used in the point in the conversation I used them.

  • Well. in reality if all that were true, and if you actually had all the peer reviewed studies that show and prove that current 2016-17 CDC vaccine schedule is safe and effective; then you would be able to answer these 9 questions, and yet which at this point, you have not been able to do.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    Right here we have an expose in the attempt to answer those questions, and as for my response you can directly see that this persons response was largely inadequate, as to the existing and available studies. In everything I do, I explain each and every step of the process in determining what actually exists within the available scientific studies.

    ​My response to Antonio Baduy Cámara, and the blog Skeptical Raptor, as to their response to 9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxer’s
    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    So again, how does that process with the people you say you are schooling to be pro-vaccine, and after being vaccine reluctant? You are nothing but an obvious and delusional, liar. Such an in denial and delusional man. Your said education and so called honor and prestige, is clearly worth nothing at all. Just face it.

  • As I said, a highly qualified psychiatrist needs to study in depth you, and determine what kind of twisted and delusional complex you actually suffer from.

    Go ahead and and as well, respond?

    The brief basics of what a vaccine truther stands on. The term anti-vaxxer, is the most blatantly stupid label and term on the planet. Most all of us once believe exactly what were were told, and that vaccines prevented and eradicated illness. Even I once trusted and believed that if anything was harmful, the FDA surely would know about it. One day long ago I had reason to start questioning everything that the public is told. What I found was a monopoly style pharma based empire that controls all information, and as well everything that you are allowed have provided, as for health care. Within that system as well, no form of naturopathic and real health care is allowed to be viewed as anything other than unproven quackery. Let me ask you; WHO ARE THE REAL …FOR PROFIT …QUACKS?

    INTERVIEW WITH ANTI-VAXXER

    Q: So you’re an anti-vaxxer now?
    A: Yes.
    Q: Don’t you worry about your child getting sick from vaccine preventable diseases?
    A: No, not really. I actually have less fear of many of those illnesses now that I’ve done my research.
    Q: But what about polio?
    A: Polio is asymptomatic in over 90% of cases. When symptoms do present, they’re usually mild and flu-like.
    Q: But we don’t see iron lungs anymore because of vaccines.
    A: We don’t see iron lungs anymore for the same reason we don’t see computers that are large enough to take up an entire room. Technology has come a long way.
    Q: But even if the risk of getting something serious is small, don’t you want to protect your child with vaccines just in case?
    A: I do want to protect my child, and that is one reason I say no to vaccines. Because in my cost-benefit analysis, the chances of my child being harmed from vaccines is greater than the chances of my child being harmed from one of those illnesses.
    Q: But it’s not just about your child. It is your responsibility to vaccinate your child to protect immune compromised people through herd immunity.
    A: First and foremost, my responsibility is to my child. I will not set my child on fire to keep someone else warm. What parent would knowingly risk their child’s life for the sake of the herd? Would you? My child is not a human shield. Secondly, herd immunity is a myth. We do not have vaccine induced herd immunity and never have.
    Q: But don’t you think vaccines are a victim of their own success? They eradicated polio and other diseases, so you probably haven’t seen them thanks to vaccines.
    A: Correlation does not equal causation. The history of vaccines is more complex than that, and I no longer believe that vaccines can take the credit for eradicating any diseases. We have never had widespread vaccination for scarlet fever or typhoid, yet, they are no longer a threat. Amazing what sanitation can do. Polio has also not been eradicated. I may not have lived through the “polio” era, but I am living in a time with a different kind of epidemic. My child’s generation is the first to have a life expectancy that is less than that of their parents. People are sicker than ever with autoimmune diseases, deadly allergies, neurological problems, and cancer. We can not cling to a controversial problem of the past to make crucial decisions for today. We have to do something about the problems we are currently faced with, and giving more vaccines is not an acceptable solution.
    Q: Do the ingredients in vaccines concern you?
    A: Yes
    Q: You know there’s formaldehyde in pears, right? And mercury in tuna?
    A: When’s the last time you puréed a pear and some tuna, then injected it intramuscularly? We have a digestive system for a reason, and the mucosal tissue is one of the most important components of the human immune system. I don’t think bypassing those functions is without consequence. Ingestion and injection are not the same thing. It’s the same reason you can drink snake venom, but being bitten in the leg with the same venom can kill you.
    Q: But the science is settled and doctors and scientists agree that vaccines are necessary.
    A: Science is never settled. As history has shown, science can be dangerously wrong. It can also be heavily influenced by financial interests. And doctors and scientists do not all agree about vaccines. There are many doctors, nurses, immunologists, and researchers who are aware of the shortcomings of vaccines. And if we want to really discuss vaccine science, we need to demand that there be more of it, because vaccine science is severely lacking. It is the tobacco science of our time. The current vaccine schedule (which has more than tripled since vaccine manufacturers became protected from liability in 1986) has never been tested for safety. There hasn’t been a randomized double blind placebo controlled study comparing the outcomes of the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Vaccines are the epitome of quackery.’

    ️Thank you to Lea Kristen.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/greg-wyatt/interview-with-anti-vaxxer/10210112369758242

    Vaccines: The Holy Grail of Modern Medicine

    This is especially true in the vaccine movement right now, which seeks to greatly increase the number of vaccines required to immunize children and now even teenagers and adults. Hundreds of thousands of parents know first-hand that vaccines have either killed or permanently damaged their children (and this is even backed up by statistics in the VAERS – Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System – government database, as well as government payouts from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.) The medical establishment is aware of these side effects resulting in disabilities and deaths, but believes that these casualties are necessary for “the greater good” of society. Laws have been put in place to protect the manufacturers of vaccines from lawsuits, and a government compensation program was established to pay damages to those injured or killed by vaccines.

    While great wealth and profits are definitely tied into the vaccine and medical industry as a whole, I believe that the overriding motivation is a belief system, and not necessarily strictly a profit motive (although the profit motive is also a huge factor!) For vaccines, the belief is that if everyone is not vaccinated, dangerous viruses and diseases will spread through society and threaten life itself – the very existence of the human race.

    That belief, however, is not backed by objective science. It is simply a belief system, based on historical plagues and what future plagues could potentially do. It is a belief system that feeds on fear and makes no consideration that there is a God who has ultimate control over his creation. When one looks objectively at the history of diseases and vaccines, however, it is obvious that all these major diseases were already on the decline prior to the development of the vaccine, suggesting that God’s built-in natural immunity was sufficient, and probably superior, to vaccines. (See: An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases)

    Red more:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/medicine-idolatry-in-the-twenty-first-century-2/#sthash.CCPqbsWP.dpuf

    An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/an-honest-look-at-the-historical-evidence-that-vaccines-eliminated-diseases/

    God Does Not Support Vaccines
    http://www.livingwhole.org/god-does-not-support-vaccines/

    Biblical Reasons Not to Vaccinate, (Mary Tocco)
    http://childhoodshots.com/biblical-reasons-vaccinate/

    INDESCRIBABLY DISGUSTING VACCINE INGREDIENTS

    SO WHAT ABOUT THE FLY IN OUR SOUP?

    It may not do any harm at all, especially if it has been well heated in the soup!

    However, all injected substances including insect fragments bypass the body’s intricate defense mechanism. The same substances which are harmless when ingested are shown to be extremely detrimental to health when injected. This is learned by medical students and others, but many doctors, health authorities and other vaccine promoters appear to ignore this basic fact.

    Read more:
    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2012/01/indescribably-disgusting-vaccine.html

  • David

    My education is worth nothing at all? My 15 patients who had surgery today will tell you otherwise

  • That subject matter is irrelevant in regard to the vaccine issues, you entirely twisted, misguided, and delusional man. And your entire story in regard to your so called re-educating of vaccine reluctant parents, and those on the fence, is a entirely fabricated lie. Beyond your delusional level of stupidity, actually does exist a REAL world, where human beings are not as dumb and beyond ignorant as you would selfishly choose for yourself, and for them them to be.

    How does this square up with your claims? So if you show vaccine reluctant parents this information, they automatically take to your pro-vaccine side, and instantly realize that they need to support vaccines, and vaccination? What a twisted liar you are, and any honest and thinking person can clearly see that outcome for you. I actually feel sort for you and your big pharma mislead and in denial filled lot, in this life. Wow, and people like you actually exist, amazing.

    As far as your claim that everything I post, and that everything within my videos, and that everything on my website is thus open fodder for you to use in regard to re-educating vaccination reluctant parents and those on the fence, as to and on the so called stupidity of the so called anti-vaccine side of the vaccine questions; again your said claims and accusations are a complete farce. You are actually doing no such thing.

    If you believe that those that are “vaccine injured”, are “Anti-Vaccine”, then do also beleive that those injured by faulty brakes, are “Anti-Brake”?
    http://memeful.com/meme/d6J7P9d

    The brief basics of what a vaccine truther stands on. The term anti-vaxxer, is the most blatantly stupid label and term on the planet. Most all of us once believe exactly what were were told, and that vaccines prevented and eradicated illness. Even I once trusted and believed that if anything was harmful, the FDA surely would know about it. One day long ago I had reason to start questioning everything that the public is told. What I found was a monopoly style pharma based empire that controls all information, and as well everything that you are allowed have provided, as for health care. Within that system as well, no form of naturopathic and real health care is allowed to be viewed as anything other than unproven quackery. Let me ask you; WHO ARE THE REAL …FOR PROFIT …QUACKS?

    INTERVIEW WITH ANTI-VAXXER

    Q: So you’re an anti-vaxxer now?
    A: Yes.
    Q: Don’t you worry about your child getting sick from vaccine preventable diseases?
    A: No, not really. I actually have less fear of many of those illnesses now that I’ve done my research.
    Q: But what about polio?
    A: Polio is asymptomatic in over 90% of cases. When symptoms do present, they’re usually mild and flu-like.
    Q: But we don’t see iron lungs anymore because of vaccines.
    A: We don’t see iron lungs anymore for the same reason we don’t see computers that are large enough to take up an entire room. Technology has come a long way.
    Q: But even if the risk of getting something serious is small, don’t you want to protect your child with vaccines just in case?
    A: I do want to protect my child, and that is one reason I say no to vaccines. Because in my cost-benefit analysis, the chances of my child being harmed from vaccines is greater than the chances of my child being harmed from one of those illnesses.
    Q: But it’s not just about your child. It is your responsibility to vaccinate your child to protect immune compromised people through herd immunity.
    A: First and foremost, my responsibility is to my child. I will not set my child on fire to keep someone else warm. What parent would knowingly risk their child’s life for the sake of the herd? Would you? My child is not a human shield. Secondly, herd immunity is a myth. We do not have vaccine induced herd immunity and never have.
    Q: But don’t you think vaccines are a victim of their own success? They eradicated polio and other diseases, so you probably haven’t seen them thanks to vaccines.
    A: Correlation does not equal causation. The history of vaccines is more complex than that, and I no longer believe that vaccines can take the credit for eradicating any diseases. We have never had widespread vaccination for scarlet fever or typhoid, yet, they are no longer a threat. Amazing what sanitation can do. Polio has also not been eradicated. I may not have lived through the “polio” era, but I am living in a time with a different kind of epidemic. My child’s generation is the first to have a life expectancy that is less than that of their parents. People are sicker than ever with autoimmune diseases, deadly allergies, neurological problems, and cancer. We can not cling to a controversial problem of the past to make crucial decisions for today. We have to do something about the problems we are currently faced with, and giving more vaccines is not an acceptable solution.
    Q: Do the ingredients in vaccines concern you?
    A: Yes
    Q: You know there’s formaldehyde in pears, right? And mercury in tuna?
    A: When’s the last time you puréed a pear and some tuna, then injected it intramuscularly? We have a digestive system for a reason, and the mucosal tissue is one of the most important components of the human immune system. I don’t think bypassing those functions is without consequence. Ingestion and injection are not the same thing. It’s the same reason you can drink snake venom, but being bitten in the leg with the same venom can kill you.
    Q: But the science is settled and doctors and scientists agree that vaccines are necessary.
    A: Science is never settled. As history has shown, science can be dangerously wrong. It can also be heavily influenced by financial interests. And doctors and scientists do not all agree about vaccines. There are many doctors, nurses, immunologists, and researchers who are aware of the shortcomings of vaccines. And if we want to really discuss vaccine science, we need to demand that there be more of it, because vaccine science is severely lacking. It is the tobacco science of our time. The current vaccine schedule (which has more than tripled since vaccine manufacturers became protected from liability in 1986) has never been tested for safety. There hasn’t been a randomized double blind placebo controlled study comparing the outcomes of the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Vaccines are the epitome of quackery.’

    ️Thank you to Lea Kristen.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/greg-wyatt/interview-with-anti-vaxxer/10210112369758242

    Vaccines: The Holy Grail of Modern Medicine

    This is especially true in the vaccine movement right now, which seeks to greatly increase the number of vaccines required to immunize children and now even teenagers and adults. Hundreds of thousands of parents know first-hand that vaccines have either killed or permanently damaged their children (and this is even backed up by statistics in the VAERS – Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System – government database, as well as government payouts from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.) The medical establishment is aware of these side effects resulting in disabilities and deaths, but believes that these casualties are necessary for “the greater good” of society. Laws have been put in place to protect the manufacturers of vaccines from lawsuits, and a government compensation program was established to pay damages to those injured or killed by vaccines.

    While great wealth and profits are definitely tied into the vaccine and medical industry as a whole, I believe that the overriding motivation is a belief system, and not necessarily strictly a profit motive (although the profit motive is also a huge factor!) For vaccines, the belief is that if everyone is not vaccinated, dangerous viruses and diseases will spread through society and threaten life itself – the very existence of the human race.

    That belief, however, is not backed by objective science. It is simply a belief system, based on historical plagues and what future plagues could potentially do. It is a belief system that feeds on fear and makes no consideration that there is a God who has ultimate control over his creation. When one looks objectively at the history of diseases and vaccines, however, it is obvious that all these major diseases were already on the decline prior to the development of the vaccine, suggesting that God’s built-in natural immunity was sufficient, and probably superior, to vaccines. (See: An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases)

    Red more:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/medicine-idolatry-in-the-twenty-first-century-2/#sthash.CCPqbsWP.dpuf

    An Honest Look at the Historical Evidence that Vaccines Eliminated Diseases
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/an-honest-look-at-the-historical-evidence-that-vaccines-eliminated-diseases/

    God Does Not Support Vaccines
    http://www.livingwhole.org/god-does-not-support-vaccines/

    Biblical Reasons Not to Vaccinate, (Mary Tocco)
    http://childhoodshots.com/biblical-reasons-vaccinate/

  • For the sake of humanity, please get a mental evaluation in regard to your obviously twisted, psychiatric condition.

  • Jesus baby

    Wow what a long post that no one will ever read.

    “When you repeatedly lie…” Hubbsie, if you can prove someone’s lying why do you need to know anything else about them?

    “If you believe that those that are “vaccine injured”, are “Anti-Vaccine…”
    In less than 1 in a million cases does someone become vaccine-injured. You can’t even name one injury that can only be caused by a vaccine, Lowell.

  • Again, it does not matter who did the stated research, and as the initial research is clearly there, and it is a very informative information and as well obviously a very informative article.

    So then, and as to that issue, what do you not yet understand about your obviously existing, blatant. and obvious level of continued hypocrisy? How much more obvious can it yet it be? And you still deny it. I actually an starting to feel sorry for such pathetic people like you, and which have in their denial, such an obvious and serious sickness going on, and within their sub-human soul.

  • David

    Believe what you want lowell
    But when parents are faced with a group of academic physicians explaining the benefits of vaccination and that every government, intrernational health organization ,hospital and medical school in the world are in support of vaccination…..We provide references to large multicenter trials in JAMA, NEJM, Lancet etc.
    then we show parents your videos, conspiracy theories (911 truthers, HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, denial of germ theory) etc. We highlight how all your and other anti vax references are to you tube and other crank anti vax sites with not a single supportive article in a major journal
    It is quite obvious who even the most extreme vaccine hesitant parents will trust.
    So keep up your fine work lowell.

  • And again, what an obvious load of reply posted bullshit. And who do you think is yet actually mis-educated dumb enough to believe your obviously mentally defective, repeated twisted ….sick, gagging, and again sniffling …drivel?

  • Jonathan Graham

    So in other words you don’t know what I’m talking about.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell since you don’t know what I’m talking about you’re really in no position to make that statement. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    it does not matter who did the stated research

    Ron was actually making a point about complaining about who does the research. So in the context you jumped into. It does make a difference and clearly I understood Ron’s comment better than you did. :-)

  • So you are saying that vaccine truth and reality do not matter, as long as you can impress upon the parent your false educational authority; and all while their children continue to become vaccine injured, and as to which you will deny any connection to vaccines, and as well continue to claim that is it is all a continued and unexplained, coincidence.

    And thanks again for exposing your level of evil, and as well again your obvious level of continued and ongoing in denial of all the vaccine harm being done, personal sickness. I am sure that all of the said vaccine hesitant and sitting on the fence patents will be highly impressed with your posted outcome here, and that all of them and their children will be getting appointments and jumping in their cars and trucks immediately to go get vaccinated.

  • No, actually it amounts to this outcome for you. In other words and as to your reply, you can not actually reply to my above post at all. Instead, your warped mind entirely evades what was put in front of you. Nothing ever changes.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually my response was pretty honest. You made a statement of the form “It must be either…which is it?”. I pointed out that what you presented was not mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive. You clearly don’t know what I mean so you want to spend your time dancing around the fact that you’re ignorant of a pretty fundamental aspect of logic.

  • No, again what you are actually doing here is evading the actual subject matter, and in replacing that information with an attempted personal attack. Nothing ever changes with you trolling pro-vaccine shills, and nothing ever will.

  • Obviously no one here is dancing around this issue, but you.

    All of what big pharma produces for false indoctrination information, is mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive; and as you know, that is how the big pharma’s controlling of all information, works. So what we have here is an admission of that, and not a denial of it. In fact you directly outlined what the public needs to wake up to, and realize.

  • Jesus baby

    You know I’m right, Lowell. You’re not even trying are you?

  • Jonathan, being that it is actually you that does not have a clue as to what you are reply posting about, that actually makes you the person that is in no position to make a statement. The only existing melodramatic delusions that are in overdrive here, are obviously your own, so called Graham.

  • Actually, you don’t know what I am talking about, so called, Jonathan G. Pay …attention.

    The Official Definition of a Vaccine Shill:

    As you may know, there is an ongoing intense public debate around the issue of Mandatory Vaccination. This debate has spilled over into social media forums, such as Twitter and Facebook, with passionate debate on both sides. However, the Pro-Forced Vaccine element has attempted to marginalize the Vaccine Choice supporters with the completely made up term “Anti-Vax”. They frequently link users to a site where this definition is articulated.

    In an attempt to be balanced, I have created the term “Vax Shill” (#vaxshill) and will articulate it here. These are the characteristics and behaviors of those who would force vaccination upon you, which include, but are not limited to:

    1. Sticks to a pre-defined and rehearsed script, and ignores anything outside their narrative. Often they appear out of nowhere, interrupting conversations with others.
    2. Flagrant and repetitive use of buzzwords like pseudoscience, debunked, quack doctor, crank, grifter, caveman, knuckle dragger, Neanderthal, disease spreader, denier, tin foil hat, Dunning Kruger, Google University, problematic, simply science, vaccines work, shill gambit, etc., etc., etc.
    3. They are Pro-GMO’s, Pro-Vax, Pro-Fluoride in water, Statins, and calls all else quackery. Constantly attacks anyone who says otherwise.
    4. Sticks to only one source, non-scientific, or relies solely on epidemiological data that shares their own bias.
    5. Thinks Paul Offit is not a pile of shit liar, pays zero attention to any conflicts of interest, but doesn’t hold the same for those with opposing views. Speaking of Offit, he will agree to debate, and sets his own terms. Chickens out at last minute, and compares vaccines to gravity.
    6. Anyone caught voicing an opinion is immediately labeled anti-something. Uses mass generalizations.
    7. Demands to be linked to only government or corporate sourced “studies”, considers all else fraud and quackery.
    8. Immediately brings up the name Wakefield, regardless of the merit of the argument, when discussing Autism.
    9. Plays false association games when presented with a bulletproof, airtight argument. Changes subject to avoid further discussion.
    10. Uses ad hominem attacks when given any data, referring to individual as “Dunning Kruger”. Claims you must be a doctor or scientist to opine on vaccines or their safety.
    11. And of course, insults anyone who disagrees, then accuses them of being impolite or rude. Makes some kind of emotional reason to justify their insults.
    12. Claims you have no right to share your personal vaccine harm accounts publicly. Always calls on you to prove it, then shrugs it off as anecdotal and inconsequential.
    13. Rejects religious freedom, gun ownership rights, and medical choice. Claims moral conscience is not a right to decline vaccination. Denies aborted fetal cells are in vaccines, until shown they are. Then admits to it.
    14. Believes toxic ingredients are not toxic when injected into the body.
    15. Compares vaccinations to seatbelts, traffic lanes, and driving laws. None of which are injected into the body.

    Please feel free to use this definition at your pleasure, along with our new hashtag… #vaxshill when you are unfortunate enough to run across these vaccine hounds, shills, and trolls. Happy Tweeting!

    https://passiveaggressiveraven.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/the-official-definition-of-a-vaccine-shill-vaxshill/

    INTERVIEW WITH ANTI-VAXXER
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/greg-wyatt/interview-with-anti-vaxxer/10210112369758242

    Provax Quacks

    Since the belief in vaccines is more like faith and religion than it is science, we thought we’d present the Vaccinology 10 Commandments as we see them:

    1. Correlation doth not equal Causation (unless it defends the Sacred and Holy Vaccine).
    2. It is NEVER the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. Any injuries associated with the Sacred and Holy Vaccine must be coincidence, or a lie.
    3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Holy Vaccine in vain. Thou shalt not question the Holy Writings that defend the Sacred Vaccine.
    4. Thou shalt not hold any medical procedure above the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. Only the Sacred and Holy Vaccine can perform the miracles claimed.
    5. Thou must always follow the Vaccine Schedule, for the Sacred Vaccine is a jealous God.
    6. Honor thy Offit and thy Salk, for they are the prophets of the Sacred and Holy Vaccine.
    7. Thou must always trust all studies that are done by the makers of the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. They have no interest in profit, only in the health and livelihood of their congregation.
    8. Thou must always take the holy sacrament of Vaccination. Any who does not Vaccinate, or who question the holy sacrament, must be called a heretic.
    9. Diseases that were once benign must become deadly once a Sacred Vaccine is made for them.
    10. The Sacred and Holy Vaccine is always safe and effective.

    https://provaxquacks.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/the-vaccinology-10-commandments/

    Professor David Gorski, a well-known online character assassin masquerading as a science defender

    Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line

    Excerpted: The more you read, the more you start to realize that there is a growing number of doctors, scientists, nurses, and other health care providers who have serious questions about the current vaccine paradigm favored by the pharmaceutical industry, government agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA), medical trade groups, and the mainstream media.

    Increasingly, professionals within a wide range of health care and science fields are giving interviews and writing articles and books voicing their concerns about vaccine risks, the misrepresentation of the historical role of vaccines in reducing mortality from infectious diseases, the expanding schedule and number of vaccines mandated, or even the basic mechanism theories behind vaccine science.

    David Gorski, MD, alias “Orac””

    Michael Simpson, alias “Skeptical Raptor”

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine,1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 They’re often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4

    Should you wish to debunk someone, anyone, who dares to disagree with mainstream thinking on vaccines, all you need do is inform Orac, and the good doctor will gladly oblige by writing up a boorish piece, long on insult and short on science. Orac’s methods are painfully predictable. In one piece earlier this year, he criticized a prominent immunologist5 who had the nerve to write an open letter on vaccine science to state legislators in California about to vote on a bill eliminating personal belief vaccine exemptions. He started out by dismissing the individual’s credentials outright. Orac writes:

    Read more:
    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/11/internet-trolls-attack-anyone-resisting-vaccine-party-line/

    Speaking of Quacks…

    It is without further adieu that I present pseudo-skeptic extraordinaire, David Gorski aka Orac the nipple ripper.

    Gorski is known best for his exceptional talent for cherry picking information that conforms to his particularly biased, preexisting set of beliefs.

    The particular brand of pseudo-skepticism Gorski and his followers adhere to is one that actually inhibits the progress of scientific research, zealously discouraging any and all from questioning existing science!

    Read more:
    https://provaxquacks.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/speaking-of-quacks/

    The Attempted Suppression of and the Silencing of the Vaccine Truth, (an expose on “Dorito” Reiss, and Paul Offit)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-suppression-and-silencing-of-the-vaccine-truth-and-reality.html

    Offit’s Alarming Claim.

    Once upon a time, a devout vaccine worshiper made the scientifically unsound claim that an infant could safely receive as many as 10,000 vaccines at one time!

    Parents and persons within the health community immediately demanded to see where this ridiculous number had been extrapolated from. It turns out this statement was based purely on a theoretical immunological calculation and did not take into account the toxicological aspect of such a large number of vaccine doses.

    We’re still waiting for Mr. Offit to amend his disingenuous statement to include this very important fact.

    https://provaxquacks.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/offits-alarming-claim-9/

    Does ‘the dose make the poison?’

    Extensive results challenge a core assumption in toxicology

    http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/lowdose/2007/2007-0525nmdrc.html

    PQ Presents: The Father of Vaccine Quackery.

    Since this page is devoted to exposing all forms of quackery that encompass the provax religion, I thought it might be fun to feature the original, true quack credited with founding the practice of vaccination! (Though this too is a false misconception. Vaccination or variolation was around long before Jenner adopted the practice.)

    Fun facts:

    -Jenners experiments were largely based upon superstition and anecdotal evidence.

    -Jenner was notorious for performing highly unethical and dangerous experiments on young children including his own son.

    -Jenner experimented on his son for many years afterwards, subjecting him to various innoculations. Jenner then performed challenge tests, deliberately exposing his son to deadly diseases.

    -In the years following these experiments, Jenners son “became a sickly child and exhibited signs of mild mental retardation.” Sadly his son died at the young age of 21 from tuberculosis.

    -Jenner refused to vaccinate his second child.

    https://provaxquacks.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/pq-presents-the-father-of-vaccine-quackery/

  • That is the seen before, and again and again the typical and sick vaccine trolling shill reply, and when you have absolutely nothing to defend your claim, and nothing more to offer.

  • Lowell, you’re either a liar or a fool. There are no other possibilities. Which are you?

  • No other possibilities, for what? In your evasion, you can’t even define your question. To claim to being a liar or a fool, you as well have to prove and show evidence for your claim. You are nothing but a lazy farce of man and who’s human existence is as pathetic, insignificant, unauthoritative, uneventful, and as a stupid as a rotted wooden post falling over alone a backroads ditch. Let me know when you actually have something of substance to contribute.

  • Jesus baby

    You’ve not argued with my claims, Lowell. You’ve just spewed really poorly worded insults.

  • So, which is it? It can only be one or the other.

  • So again you can not define and form and actual question, here. Talk about .. evasion.

  • The question is very, very simple. Are you a liar or are you a fool? Simply say “I, Lowell Hubbs, am a liar” or “I, Lowell Hubbs, am a fool.” One or the other. I’ve made it as simple for you as I know how.

  • And you have not actually defined any question and/or claim at all, here That is so typical, and that is all your stupid shill a$$es can ever do; evade the actual question, and the issues. And again all it ever amounts to is just more false antagonization.

  • And as to and in regard to what what evidence…you sick …fool? You have defined nothing at all, Ken S.?

  • What’s to define? Your comments are all the evidence I need. They prove my point beyond any shadow of a doubt. No sane and honest person could possibly draw any other conclusion from them. It’s obvious to everybody that you’re either a fool or a liar, so just pick one instead of carrying on with this sick, twisted, tedious, insane, foolish, false deflection.

  • So specifically define the accusations you are making, the evidence for it, and the question you are asking, directly? Is that so hard to do?

  • The statement of fact is that you are either a fool or a liar. The evidence is your entire deranged, laughable comment history. The question is which of them you are (fool or liar, since you probably forgot already). I’m going to just assume the answer is “fool” if you can’t even understand that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    what you are actually doing here is evading the actual subject matter,

    Ron was making a point about someones response. I simply pointed out that Ron’s argument was crap. Sorry.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell, you don’t even KNOW what I meant by collectively exhaustive and mutually exclusive. That automatically EXCLUDES you from having a useful opinion on whether I was avoiding anything. Furthermore, as usual I can point out clearly and exactly where your argument goes wrong and you can only create vague assertions. Which kind of argues against you really having anything to say here. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    being that it is

    Lowell I’ll just point out that you have this amazing ability to produce some of the most awkward English.

    it is actually you that does not have a clue as to what you are reply posting about,

    I know that you made an “it must be either X or Y” statement. All that’s required is for me to show that those statements are not mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive and your position is refuted.

    You don’t know what that means and you don’t seem very interested in learning so we’re kind of stuck but as this is kind of your MO it’s really no different than any other conversation with you. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again I’ve been able to show that….

    i) You have made a “it must be either X or Y” argument.
    ii) The statements are not mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive.

    So that’s all I need to know to refute.

  • Polak

    Tell me Mr Hubbs,have I not been polite to you?Why do you accuse me of being paid?Until you have evidence of me being paid I suggest that you refrain from saying it because it only makes you look silly.Mr Hubbs articles are meaningless as are youtube videos.

  • AutismDadd

    GOOD LORD! Parents pay attention to this victimization. Then they drag them through 5 years of court for this NO FAULT bull-crap lie. You bet they made every effort to get this family to quit and go away. Great DOCTOR too. Sue this VACCINE EXPERT too. And how many others have had injuries like this who have been denied or lied to? It getting so obvious vaccines are a nightmare and we need to wake the flock up!

  • AutismDadd

    So much for polite right polak

  • AutismDadd

    WHAT? Vaccines are sacred. They are a Cash Cow that is worshiped by the greed merchants that market them as safe. What say you about this NVICP case and its ruling a vaccine destroyed a child? Probably who cares right?

  • AutismDadd

    Graham has horse radish for brains.

  • AutismDadd

    Buh Wah Ha Ha…says the buzz cut wonder who turns every forum into a circus

  • Jesus baby

    “And you have not actually defined any question and/or claim at all, here” (no need for a comma there bud)
    Now Lowell, you’re supporting Ronald’s assertion that medicalmarijuanainc.com does research, but you’ve only copy/pasted one of their advertisements as proof.
    You’ve failed to explain your hypocrisy about not attacking the messenger, just the message, by continually attacking the messengers here.
    You’ve failed to name one injury that a person can get only from vaccines.
    You’ve failed to name the “funder” you bragged about who is supposedly paying all these shills.
    You’re still using the terms “false antagonization” when it’s been explained to you how wrong that is.

  • AutismDadd

    But Lowell isn’t a buttcrack like you, so you are in a class of your own, like solitary confinement.

  • AutismDadd

    Things were fine BEFORE you blew in and polluted the forum.

  • AutismDadd

    Bullying

  • AutismDadd

    He’s trying to bully you. I’d report the sumbich

  • AutismDadd

    The pack of shills are really after you today Lowell. They must have no other life.

  • AutismDadd

    How rude. Flagged

  • AutismDadd

    Lowell should point out WHO CARES!

  • AutismDadd

    No one does. You rarely make sense.

  • AutismDadd

    You need to copy paste Jon boy’s picture with that.

  • AutismDadd

    Go finish your six pack

  • AutismDadd

    flagged for being a pos

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m just pointing out what is apparently true.

  • Polak

    I believe him

  • Jonathan Graham

    WHAT? Vaccines are sacred.

    I doubt any of the pro-vac folks here would say do. Exceptionally useful but not sacred. Nowhere near as unquestionable as the vast majority of Ron’s pantheon of crackpots.

    What say you about this NVICP case and its ruling a vaccine destroyed a child? Probably who cares right?

    No, I’m just not familiar enough with the case to have much to say. If you look back and read my comments on the judgement on Pandemrix/narcolepsy in the UK my response was simply that I’m glad they got compensated.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell is almost constantly makes abusive speech, attempts to bully and generally tries to keep the conversation all the while blaming everyone but himself. You do a lot of that too. Perhaps that’s why you sympathize with him.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Anyone else’s fault but yours or Lowell’s. I get it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry no. I’m just pointing out what Lowell is saying in terms other people can understand. Lowell has done no research on me. Has no information on me. Because I’m not getting compensated by anyone to post here. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s simply the truth. Lowell doesn’t understand what I’m talking about. So his comments are only going to be relevant by accident.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well Lowell made an argument which depends on understanding the meaning of those two terms. Which he doesn’t appear to. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m happy to explain any specific thing I say, to any level of detail. If you don’t take advantage of that your ignorance is entirely self-created. :-)

  • And we have you seen his endless posts. This fool is clearly a crazed and drool driveling, repeated nonsense blabbering idiot. The vaccine shill side better get him in check, and pull him offline before he makes them look any worse; and if that were at this point, even possible.

  • shay simmons

    Weapons-grade crazy?

  • Blaming, and like who, and regarding what? Your hypocritical posts continue to be nothing but entirely twisted trash. And again, you poor whining baby; just look at all the sympathy for your pathetic arse, that you are getting?

  • “LOL” !!! Right on target.

  • What? Did you say something of any note worth substance, and relevance? Go ahead and directly explain your cognitively defective and twisted accusations?

  • So you are directly admitting that you are a paid shill, and in your arrogance as well flaunting a claim that you can not be identified. And yet you as well deny that your IP has been deliberately hidden? You can lie about it all day long, but until you reveal your actual identity, your said lack of conflict of interest, paid or unpaid, still remains here and clearly yet on the table.

  • Report him as well to Paul Offit, and let him know that this guy is doing more harm than good to their pro-vax agenda. The entire paid for “shillary” will attack him in …ostracism.

  • So again, you refuse to formulate a question here that involves the use of any common sense and which actually provides for a question that can be supported with facts, and in human terms, understood and responded to.

  • Again, based on what existing evidence? In your obviously hypocritical and depraved sickness of mind, you repeatedly have nothing. Try it, again? You are another one that the pro-vax shill side should directly ostracize, and put on their do not post list, for doing far more harm than good to their known agenda.

  • Why don’t you stop your false discreditation and twisted evasion and just answer the question? Obviously, you’re just afraid to admit what a trolling shill you are.

  • Where is your evidence? Your evidence amounts to nothing but your own false and unproven claims and accusations. Just because you simply post the claims and the obvious puke filled drivel that you do; does not in itself make it in any way and form, to be true. So what day of the week does your funder have your payment dropped off?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Blaming, and like who, and regarding what?

    Lowell you constantly blame everyone else for the discussion not progressing. You can’t even fathom the possibility how you are even the tiniest bit responsible.

    And again, you poor whining baby; just look at all the sympathy for your pathetic arse, that you are getting?

    Again you don’t really get it. I point out that you are abusive and bullying because it’s the right thing to do. Not because I’m looking for sympathy. Just another way you blame others for your issues.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re a troll also.

  • Jesus baby

    Stay under your bridge A-dad.

  • Jonathan Graham

    If you are asking me to explain what I mean by AutismDadd being like you in that he’s blaming everyone but himself. I think it’s pretty obvious that he’s blaming me for “polluting the forum” and I’ve already explained how you have no capacity to consider your part in the conversations that go nowhere. So that seems pretty clear.

    If you have a specific question please ask. Try to use English that isn’t needlessly embellished or awkward. Thanks.

  • Actually they are, and all paid off to do so. I think I may need to stop posting here on this site, and to cut off so called David’s connected funding money which he is providing to these trolls and shills. Do you know that he admitted to that?

  • Oh I see, now that you can not actually reply to my post, you again start in with your accused improper English, and your X or Y …stupidity, and again your repeatedly continued level of twisted insanity. Nice job?

    The Official Definition of a Vaccine Shill:

    As you may know, there is an ongoing intense public debate around the issue of Mandatory Vaccination. This debate has spilled over into social media forums, such as Twitter and Facebook, with passionate debate on both sides. However, the Pro-Forced Vaccine element has attempted to marginalize the Vaccine Choice supporters with the completely made up term “Anti-Vax”. They frequently link users to a site where this definition is articulated.

    In an attempt to be balanced, I have created the term “Vax Shill” (#vaxshill) and will articulate it here. These are the characteristics and behaviors of those who would force vaccination upon you, which include, but are not limited to:

    1. Sticks to a pre-defined and rehearsed script, and ignores anything outside their narrative. Often they appear out of nowhere, interrupting conversations with others.
    2. Flagrant and repetitive use of buzzwords like pseudoscience, debunked, quack doctor, crank, grifter, caveman, knuckle dragger, Neanderthal, disease spreader, denier, tin foil hat, Dunning Kruger, Google University, problematic, simply science, vaccines work, shill gambit, etc., etc., etc.
    3. They are Pro-GMO’s, Pro-Vax, Pro-Fluoride in water, Statins, and calls all else quackery. Constantly attacks anyone who says otherwise.
    4. Sticks to only one source, non-scientific, or relies solely on epidemiological data that shares their own bias.
    5. Thinks Paul Offit is not a pile of shit liar, pays zero attention to any conflicts of interest, but doesn’t hold the same for those with opposing views. Speaking of Offit, he will agree to debate, and sets his own terms. Chickens out at last minute, and compares vaccines to gravity.
    6. Anyone caught voicing an opinion is immediately labeled anti-something. Uses mass generalizations.
    7. Demands to be linked to only government or corporate sourced “studies”, considers all else fraud and quackery.
    8. Immediately brings up the name Wakefield, regardless of the merit of the argument, when discussing Autism.
    9. Plays false association games when presented with a bulletproof, airtight argument. Changes subject to avoid further discussion.
    10. Uses ad hominem attacks when given any data, referring to individual as “Dunning Kruger”. Claims you must be a doctor or scientist to opine on vaccines or their safety.
    11. And of course, insults anyone who disagrees, then accuses them of being impolite or rude. Makes some kind of emotional reason to justify their insults.
    12. Claims you have no right to share your personal vaccine harm accounts publicly. Always calls on you to prove it, then shrugs it off as anecdotal and inconsequential.
    13. Rejects religious freedom, gun ownership rights, and medical choice. Claims moral conscience is not a right to decline vaccination. Denies aborted fetal cells are in vaccines, until shown they are. Then admits to it.
    14. Believes toxic ingredients are not toxic when injected into the body.
    15. Compares vaccinations to seatbelts, traffic lanes, and driving laws. None of which are injected into the body. Offers a false, the dose makes the poison argument; never knowing or determining what a toxic injected dose actually is. Just like the mercury containing dental amalgam issue and argument; according to the ADA, the only safe place for mercury it is when becomes metallic amalgam, and when implanted in your teeth.

    Please feel free to use this definition at your pleasure, along with our new hashtag… #vaxshill when you are unfortunate enough to run across these vaccine hounds, shills, and trolls. Happy Tweeting!

    http://paraven.net/2015/07/28/the-official-definition-of-a-vaccine-shill-vaxshill/

    Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line

    The more you read, the more you start to realize that there is a growing chorus of doctors, scientists, nurses, and other health care providers who have serious questions about the current vaccine paradigm favored by the pharmaceutical industry, government agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA), medical trade groups, and the mainstream media.

    Increasingly, professionals within a wide range of health care and science fields are giving interviews and writing articles and books voicing their concerns about vaccine risks, the misrepresentation of the historical role of vaccines in reducing mortality from infectious diseases, the expanding schedule and number of vaccines mandated, or even the basic mechanism theories behind vaccine science.

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine,1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 They’re often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4

    Should you wish to debunk someone, anyone, who dares to disagree with mainstream thinking on vaccines, all you need do is inform Orac, and the good doctor will gladly oblige by writing up a boorish piece, long on insult and short on science. Orac’s methods are painfully predictable. In one piece earlier this year, he criticized a prominent immunologist5 who had the nerve to write an open letter on vaccine science to state legislators in California about to vote on a bill eliminating personal belief vaccine exemptions. He started out by dismissing the individual’s credentials outright. Orac writes:

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 The first two are often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4 The third is written by Michael Simpson, who goes by the “Skeptical Raptor.”5 This is how Simpson describes himself on his blog:

    I have over 25 years experience in marketing, business development, and product development in the medical products industry, working in a variety of marketing, sales, clinical research, and product development roles with large and small medical products companies. I have also had key executive roles on both the manufacturing and distribution sides of the medical products industry.3 (Michael Simpson, Alias Skeptical Raptor)

    Read more:
    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/11/internet-trolls-attack-anyone-resisting-vaccine-party-line/

    Just watch Elliot Spitzer–Mainstream media wants everyone to believe mythology about Dr. Andrew Wakefield and never acknowledges clear science showing vaccine-autism connection–even when given clear examples of science! When will media blackout on vaccine injury end? J.B. Handley

    https://www.facebook.com/jbhandleyjr/videos/1411773735529444/?pnref=story

    Statistics Show Multiple Vaccinations Are Dangerous to Young Babies
    http://paraven.net/statistics-show-multiple-vaccinations-are-dangerous-to-young-babies/

    A FRONTLINE NURSE’S VIEW OF THE VACCINE DAMAGE COVER-UP
    http://healthyfamiliesforgod.com/2015/11/er-nurse-shares-experiences-vaccine-reactions/

    http://credence.org/ECpages/?page_id=3537

    NICU Nurse with 30 Years Experience Quits Over Premature Infants Being Harmed by Vaccines
    http://circleofdocs.com/nicu-nurse-with-30-years-experience-quits-over-premature-infants-being-harmed-by-vaccines/

    Vaccine injury is not common or real, but yet they have developed, this?

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2009 May; 28(5): 431–432.
    Adversomics: The Emerging Field of Vaccine Adverse Event Immunogenetics
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843136/

    And how can vaccines be safe, and when we have all this science that shows they are not, and all while the CDC has continued to ignored it all. The CDC has never acquired one single aluminum adjuvant safety study, and nor have they funded and/or done any. How irresponsible is that, and after now some 80 years of vaccine aluminum adjuvant use? And then we have Paul Offit as well saying and based on no actual physiologically based study science, that oh well they aluminum adjuvants are safe, because people ingest more aluminum in the diet than they get in vaccines. What these to lose dumb asses refuse to see and admit is that injecting a substance, is not the same as it is when consumed dietarily. The evidence of that difference is evident as well when peanut oil or squalene oil is injected in a vaccine, as it can cause a hypersensitive reaction within the immune system causing severe and life threatening peanut allergies and as well autoimmunity issues. For squalene, (also found in some fish and olives for example) causes no problem when consumed; but when injected, immunologically all hell can break lose. That same oil when injected causes high level immune reactivity and autoimmune disorders. Latex contamination in vaccines, same outcome, created hypersensitive reactions. L-hystidine now used in Gardasil, and never tested or used in a vaccine before. They thought just because it is an amino acid that is in small amounts already present in the human body, that they Merck, could just go ahead and us it in a vaccine, with no safety testing at all. They were wrong, and since has cause significant imbalances within the human body, in regard to said L-Histidine. Imbalance problems in those having taken the said Gardasil vaccine. They don’t get it because they don’t want to get it. It is just to common sense, simple.

    19 Abstracts with Aluminum Hydroxide Research
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/toxic-ingredient/aluminum-hydroxide

    Aluminum/adjuvant studies
    http://www.cmsri.org/global-research/

    CMSRI-funded Research
    http://www.cmsri.org/cmsri-funded-research/

    More studies, take a look. Why isn’t the CDC and Paul Offit, looking at this? They refuse to.

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    The Defense of Aluminum Adjuvant, Debunked
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    Part 1: Immune Activation and Autism
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    See all posts on Immune Activation

    Part 1: Immune Activation and Autism
    Part 2: Interleukin-6 and Autism
    Part 3: Monkey Experiments
    Part 4: (Coming Soon) Prenatal vs. Postnatal Immune Activation

    http://vaccinepapers.org/immune-activation/

    Scientific Papers Library
    Immune Activation
    http://vaccinepapers.org/scientific-papers-library/

    A More Rigorous Defense of Al Adjuvant, and Why it is Wrong
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    VRM: The Problem With Vaccines Part 2 – Synergistic Effect of Heavy Metal Toxicity On The Body
    http://vaccineresistancemovement.org/?p=6097

    The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html

    Original Antigenic Sin Committed by Vaccination
    By Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk – VRAN Newsletter, Fall 2013
    http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/resources/books-periodicals/original-antigenic-sin-committed-by-vaccination/

    DOCTORS AGAINST VACCINES – HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH
    http://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/doctors-against-vaccines-hear-from-those-who-have-done-the-research

  • Jonathan Graham

    So you are directly admitting that you are a paid shill

    See this what what I meant when you claimed that Brian pretty much admitted to funding people here and I translated that to mean that you misunderstood something to fuel your delusions. Because that’s what you are doing right here. To the point that you interpreted a statement in the exact opposite way it was written. Kind of a triumph really, you read a sentence without actually understanding a single word. :-)

    well flaunting a claim that you can not be identified

    Nope. That’s not what was said. What was said is that due to the fact that I’m not being compensated by anyone to post here. Your ideas that you and your imaginary compatriots uncovering my being funded is pretty strong evidence that you are deluded. English Lowell – learn some.

    you as well deny that your IP has been deliberately hidden

    I’ve actually made no comment either way here. I’ve only pointed out that I haven’t claimed to be taking any special measures. I’ve also pointed out that you know a little less than a rock about IT security – to the point of not really knowing the function of the tools you claim I’m using.

    until you reveal your actual identity,

    Not going to happen I have more than my own self to care for, especially when people threaten to come over and “teach me a lesson”.

    said lack of conflict of interest, paid or unpaid, still remains here and clearly yet on the table

    Lowell, I’ve stated clearly and unambiguously that as far as I understand the term I have no conflicts of interest, nor am I in any way compensated for posting here – except perhaps in my own amusement in talking with people like yourself. I have event stated that if this is not sufficiently clear then if you are willing to define what YOU mean by “conflict of interest” I’ll be happy to clarify what I can there (however I won’t tell you anything about my identity). An offer you have (laughably) refused.

  • Oh I see, we are talking about vaccines, and vaccine risk; and all you can respond with here, is another twisted and irrelevant expose on your version of the proper use of English comprehension. What a loser.

  • Jonathan Graham

    now that you can not actually reply to my post

    Lowell I’m responding to the only post that I understood. Which is where you made an argument of the form “it must be either X or Y” and I pointed out that this argument is incorrect.

    This is what you broke into this discussion claiming. If you can’t even discuss a few of your own sentences cogently. Then I’m not even remotely interested in anything else you have to say. After all you always try to get out of a discussion by refusing to explain.

  • You obviously do not have even as much as a comprehension of the fact that the earth and the world rotate in a circle; and as such, how would you even begin know anything about the known existing vaccine issues?

  • Jonathan Graham

    of the proper use of English comprehension

    Well a) nothing amuses me more than your horrible mangling of English. So please keep that up. and b) What we are discussing is that I refuted your argument which was of the form “It is either X or Y”. However it seems like you don’t understand my refutation because you lack some pretty fundamental understand of logical terms.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well I do know that an argument of the form “It must be X or Y” requires X and Y to be mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive and it seems like you don’t understand what those terms mean so you are trying to derail a conversation which any normal human wouldn’t. The normal human would say something like: “Sorry, I’m not sure I understand what you mean by…”. Then I would explain, until they understand (unlike you) and then we can continue both understanding each other.

    Transparent rationality. The idea that each persons ideas in a conversation should be clearly understood in order to refute them.

  • We have been reading your reply posted bullshit for endless months now, and you still have not posted anything that you say that you do, and that you claim to, that you have done.

  • David

    Wow. Pot meet kettle. 25 k messages and is on here every night. Who has no life?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell if you have a specific question about something I said that is clear to me. I’m happy to respond. Just like I’m responding to you now. Your attempt to try and avoid moving the conversation forward by pretending that somehow I haven’t done what I’ve claimed – of course without stating what I’ve claimed, and where I’ve claimed it – is just another way of blaming anyone but yourself for the conversation not progressing. :-)

  • Wow, and you actually think that fully exonerates your existing in denial sickness …and your obvious stupidity?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ve been able to show that….

    i) You have made a “it must be either X or Y” argument.
    ii) The statements are not mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive.

    So that’s all I need to know to refute the argument you presented. Your dancing around this is amusing but it’s most just you trying to get out of a tight spot.

  • The only person actually dancing around it all, is you. Issues with again twisted and blatant hypocrisy, are always the first thing found among the pro-vaccine trolling shill side of this.

  • Well then as well what can you show us regarding this information? Get started?

    The Official Definition of a Vaccine Shill:

    As you may know, there is an ongoing intense public debate around the issue of Mandatory Vaccination. This debate has spilled over into social media forums, such as Twitter and Facebook, with passionate debate on both sides. However, the Pro-Forced Vaccine element has attempted to marginalize the Vaccine Choice supporters with the completely made up term “Anti-Vax”. They frequently link users to a site where this definition is articulated.

    In an attempt to be balanced, I have created the term “Vax Shill” (#vaxshill) and will articulate it here. These are the characteristics and behaviors of those who would force vaccination upon you, which include, but are not limited to:

    1. Sticks to a pre-defined and rehearsed script, and ignores anything outside their narrative. Often they appear out of nowhere, interrupting conversations with others.
    2. Flagrant and repetitive use of buzzwords like pseudoscience, debunked, quack doctor, crank, grifter, caveman, knuckle dragger, Neanderthal, disease spreader, denier, tin foil hat, Dunning Kruger, Google University, problematic, simply science, vaccines work, shill gambit, etc., etc., etc.
    3. They are Pro-GMO’s, Pro-Vax, Pro-Fluoride in water, Statins, and calls all else quackery. Constantly attacks anyone who says otherwise.
    4. Sticks to only one source, non-scientific, or relies solely on epidemiological data that shares their own bias.
    5. Thinks Paul Offit is not a pile of shit liar, pays zero attention to any conflicts of interest, but doesn’t hold the same for those with opposing views. Speaking of Offit, he will agree to debate, and sets his own terms. Chickens out at last minute, and compares vaccines to gravity.
    6. Anyone caught voicing an opinion is immediately labeled anti-something. Uses mass generalizations.
    7. Demands to be linked to only government or corporate sourced “studies”, considers all else fraud and quackery.
    8. Immediately brings up the name Wakefield, regardless of the merit of the argument, when discussing Autism.
    9. Plays false association games when presented with a bulletproof, airtight argument. Changes subject to avoid further discussion.
    10. Uses ad hominem attacks when given any data, referring to individual as “Dunning Kruger”. Claims you must be a doctor or scientist to opine on vaccines or their safety.
    11. And of course, insults anyone who disagrees, then accuses them of being impolite or rude. Makes some kind of emotional reason to justify their insults.
    12. Claims you have no right to share your personal vaccine harm accounts publicly. Always calls on you to prove it, then shrugs it off as anecdotal and inconsequential.
    13. Rejects religious freedom, gun ownership rights, and medical choice. Claims moral conscience is not a right to decline vaccination. Denies aborted fetal cells are in vaccines, until shown they are. Then admits to it.
    14. Believes toxic ingredients are not toxic when injected into the body.
    15. Compares vaccinations to seatbelts, traffic lanes, and driving laws. None of which are injected into the body. Offers a false, the dose makes the poison argument; never knowing or determining what a toxic injected dose actually is. Just like the mercury containing dental amalgam issue and argument; according to the ADA, the only safe place for mercury it is when becomes metallic amalgam, and when implanted in your teeth.

    Please feel free to use this definition at your pleasure, along with our new hashtag… #vaxshill when you are unfortunate enough to run across these vaccine hounds, shills, and trolls. Happy Tweeting!

    http://paraven.net/2015/07/28/the-official-definition-of-a-vaccine-shill-vaxshill/

    Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line

    The more you read, the more you start to realize that there is a growing chorus of doctors, scientists, nurses, and other health care providers who have serious questions about the current vaccine paradigm favored by the pharmaceutical industry, government agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA), medical trade groups, and the mainstream media.

    Increasingly, professionals within a wide range of health care and science fields are giving interviews and writing articles and books voicing their concerns about vaccine risks, the misrepresentation of the historical role of vaccines in reducing mortality from infectious diseases, the expanding schedule and number of vaccines mandated, or even the basic mechanism theories behind vaccine science.

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine,1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 They’re often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4

    Should you wish to debunk someone, anyone, who dares to disagree with mainstream thinking on vaccines, all you need do is inform Orac, and the good doctor will gladly oblige by writing up a boorish piece, long on insult and short on science. Orac’s methods are painfully predictable. In one piece earlier this year, he criticized a prominent immunologist5 who had the nerve to write an open letter on vaccine science to state legislators in California about to vote on a bill eliminating personal belief vaccine exemptions. He started out by dismissing the individual’s credentials outright. Orac writes:

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 The first two are often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4 The third is written by Michael Simpson, who goes by the “Skeptical Raptor.”5 This is how Simpson describes himself on his blog:

    I have over 25 years experience in marketing, business development, and product development in the medical products industry, working in a variety of marketing, sales, clinical research, and product development roles with large and small medical products companies. I have also had key executive roles on both the manufacturing and distribution sides of the medical products industry.3 (Michael Simpson, Alias Skeptical Raptor)

    Read more:
    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/11/internet-trolls-attack-anyone-resisting-vaccine-party-line/

    Just watch Elliot Spitzer–Mainstream media wants everyone to believe mythology about Dr. Andrew Wakefield and never acknowledges clear science showing vaccine-autism connection–even when given clear examples of science! When will media blackout on vaccine injury end? J.B. Handley

    https://www.facebook.com/jbhandleyjr/videos/1411773735529444/?pnref=story

    Statistics Show Multiple Vaccinations Are Dangerous to Young Babies
    http://paraven.net/statistics-show-multiple-vaccinations-are-dangerous-to-young-babies/

    A FRONTLINE NURSE’S VIEW OF THE VACCINE DAMAGE COVER-UP
    http://healthyfamiliesforgod.com/2015/11/er-nurse-shares-experiences-vaccine-reactions/

    http://credence.org/ECpages/?page_id=3537

    NICU Nurse with 30 Years Experience Quits Over Premature Infants Being Harmed by Vaccines
    http://circleofdocs.com/nicu-nurse-with-30-years-experience-quits-over-premature-infants-being-harmed-by-vaccines/

    Vaccine injury is not common or real, but yet they have developed, this?

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2009 May; 28(5): 431–432.
    Adversomics: The Emerging Field of Vaccine Adverse Event Immunogenetics
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843136/

    And how can vaccines be safe, and when we have all this science that shows they are not, and all while the CDC has continued to ignored it all. The CDC has never acquired one single aluminum adjuvant safety study, and nor have they funded and/or done any. How irresponsible is that, and after now some 80 years of vaccine aluminum adjuvant use? And then we have Paul Offit as well saying and based on no actual physiologically based study science, that oh well they aluminum adjuvants are safe, because people ingest more aluminum in the diet than they get in vaccines. What these to lose dumb asses refuse to see and admit is that injecting a substance, is not the same as it is when consumed dietarily. The evidence of that difference is evident as well when peanut oil or squalene oil is injected in a vaccine, as it can cause a hypersensitive reaction within the immune system causing severe and life threatening peanut allergies and as well autoimmunity issues. For squalene, (also found in some fish and olives for example) causes no problem when consumed; but when injected, immunologically all hell can break lose. That same oil when injected causes high level immune reactivity and autoimmune disorders. Latex contamination in vaccines, same outcome, created hypersensitive reactions. L-hystidine now used in Gardasil, and never tested or used in a vaccine before. They thought just because it is an amino acid that is in small amounts already present in the human body, that they Merck, could just go ahead and us it in a vaccine, with no safety testing at all. They were wrong, and since has cause significant imbalances within the human body, in regard to said L-Histidine. Imbalance problems in those having taken the said Gardasil vaccine. They don’t get it because they don’t want to get it. It is just to common sense, simple.

    19 Abstracts with Aluminum Hydroxide Research
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/toxic-ingredient/aluminum-hydroxide

    Aluminum/adjuvant studies
    http://www.cmsri.org/global-research/

    CMSRI-funded Research
    http://www.cmsri.org/cmsri-funded-research/

    More studies, take a look. Why isn’t the CDC and Paul Offit, looking at this? They refuse to.

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    The Defense of Aluminum Adjuvant, Debunked
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    Part 1: Immune Activation and Autism
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    See all posts on Immune Activation

    Part 1: Immune Activation and Autism
    Part 2: Interleukin-6 and Autism
    Part 3: Monkey Experiments
    Part 4: (Coming Soon) Prenatal vs. Postnatal Immune Activation

    http://vaccinepapers.org/immune-activation/

    Scientific Papers Library
    Immune Activation
    http://vaccinepapers.org/scientific-papers-library/

    A More Rigorous Defense of Al Adjuvant, and Why it is Wrong
    http://vaccinepapers.org/rigorous-defense-al-adjuvant-wrong/

    VRM: The Problem With Vaccines Part 2 – Synergistic Effect of Heavy Metal Toxicity On The Body
    http://vaccineresistancemovement.org/?p=6097

    The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html

    Original Antigenic Sin Committed by Vaccination
    By Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk – VRAN Newsletter, Fall 2013
    http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/resources/books-periodicals/original-antigenic-sin-committed-by-vaccination/

    DOCTORS AGAINST VACCINES – HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH
    http://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/doctors-against-vaccines-hear-from-those-who-have-done-the-research

    How Vaccines Dysregulate The Immune System
    http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/how-vaccines-dysregulate-the-immune-system/

    Vaccinations Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    http://www.liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    How Do Vaccines Work? Immune Mechanisms and Consequences
    http://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/component/option,com_crossjoomlaarticlemanager/Itemid,375/aid,1369/view,crossjoomlaarticlemanager/#sthash.rkJSugBv.dpuf

    Your Immune System, How It Works And How Vaccines Damage It
    http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Your-Immune-System-How-It-Works-And-How-Vaccines-Damage-It

    Anatomy and Physiology of the Immune System, Part 4
    How pharmaceuticals destroy nature
    http://jonbarron.org/article/anatomy-and-physiology-immune-system-part-4#.UwH0pvldXbY

    Understanding immunity requires more than immunology
    http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v11/n7/full/ni0710-561.html

    An Immune Disorder at the Root of Autism

    So here’s the short of it: At least a subset of autism — perhaps one-third, and very likely more — looks like a type of inflammatory disease. And it begins in the womb. [No it does NOT, and that is not necessarily true, unless the mother has taken a Thimerosal containing flu vaccine, or such as an aluminum adjuvant containing DTaP vaccine. Much of this dysregulation can clearly happen after birth, and of course infants are vaccinated, from birth.]

    It starts with what scientists call immune dysregulation. Ideally, your immune system should operate like an enlightened action hero, meting out inflammation precisely, accurately and with deadly force when necessary, but then quickly returning to a Zen-like calm. Doing so requires an optimal balance of pro- and anti-inflammatory muscle.

    In autistic individuals, the immune system fails at this balancing act. Inflammatory signals dominate. Anti-inflammatory ones are inadequate. A state of chronic activation prevails. And the more skewed toward inflammation, the more acute the autistic symptoms.

    Nowhere are the consequences of this dysregulation more evident than in the autistic brain. Spidery cells that help maintain neurons — called astroglia and microglia — are enlarged from chronic activation. Pro-inflammatory signaling molecules abound. Genes involved in inflammation are switched on.

    These findings are important for many reasons, but perhaps the most noteworthy is that they provide evidence of an abnormal, continuing biological process. That means that there is finally a therapeutic target for a disorder defined by behavioral criteria like social impairments, difficulty communicating and repetitive behaviors.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opinion/sunday/immune-disorders-and-autism.html/?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    A Mouse Model for the Immune Dysregulation Subtype of Autism, (And they would still claim to that there is no way vaccines have and can cause autism? That conclusion is of course clearly preposterous.)

    http://tacanowblog.com/2012/07/23/a-mouse-model-for-the-immune-dysregulation-subtype-of-autism/

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well you can neither address my argument nor even make a vague indication that you comprehend it. So yeah, I’d call that dancing around.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …more dancing around the fact that I just used, as AutismDadd would say some “big words” (words at the tenth grade level or higher). They happen to be words you don’t understand and for one of your myriad of personal problems you can’t bring yourself to say: “I don’t understand that can you explain it to me”. So instead you spend post after post trying to distract from this rather simple point instead of simply taking the time to learn something for once.

  • You don’t even have a specific, and nor an actual argument put in place here, you extremely …SICK…DUMB …A$$. I know it, and you know it. And this is the same obvious idiotic business that you have going on here, and as usual, and as you always do.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I do have an argument. That your argument of the form “It must be either X or Y” is wrong. This is evidenced by the rather obvious problem that your X and Y are not mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive and since whatever disorder is currently pulling the strings for you right now. The only thing we CAN’T talk about is that mistake you made when you gave an argument of the form “It must be either X or Y” by not providing terms which are mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive.

  • Purely for the sake of an experiment, could you tell me what is one plus one?

  • Just for the sake of an experiment, could you tell me what is one plus one?

  • In the United States, damages awarded by the VICP are paid by vaccine manufacturers, not taxpayers. Instead of being assessed for each individual claim, manufacturers are required to pay 75¢ into the VICP fund for every vaccine dose they sell. This fund is then used to pay successful claims.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ll take a stab and say “two”. Unless we are operating in a radix of two or GF 3 in which case the answers are 10 and -1 respectively. :-)

  • Hwha?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Radix is an old-school way of saying “base”. Base two is when each digit represents an exponent of two rather than an exponent of ten. Another name for base two is “binary”. 1 + 1 in binary is written 10.

    GF3 stands for “General Field 3” and while this term can represent different things. My prof would call this the field defined on the set {1,0,-1}. When you add 1 + 1 you still get 2 but since 2 is not a symbol in that set you “roll off” the left side of the field and start counting on the right. So you get -1.

    There are probably a few other representations that I’m not thinking about right now.

  • Thanks for explaining! I’m torn between being glad to learn about GF3 and being annoyed that you had to show off.

  • Jesus baby

    Listen to Lowell at around 4:24 – yikes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw132WIZKcs

  • Ron Roy

    ” wake the flock ( cussing ) up.” I agree. Nice play on words by the way, We need to turn the flock ( of sheep ) into a pride of LIONS. Better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep!

  • Ron Roy

    His / her name is really Josephine. When Josephine doesn’t take her meds she changes into different personalities. Joe, Neil, Kevin, EJITT etc.

  • Ron Roy

    ”You should shut up until you have something that means something.”. In which case Johnny you would forever remain silent.

  • Ron Roy

    You give yourself too much credit.

  • Ron Roy

    1000 upvotes for this one!

  • Ron Roy

    There’s that swollen head coming out again.

  • Ron Roy

    Johnny I just copied and pasted this post of yours and I gave it to my daughter and asked her to show it to as many teachers as she can when she goes to work today. I’ll get back to you and tell you how many of them understand it. You know 99.9% of the population would have no idea as to what the heck your talking about. You post things like this just to make yourself look more intelligent than anyone else. Understanding that post doesn’t mean you have any common sense which I value a lot more.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well I appreciate everyone tolerating my occasional math brag around here. On the internet you can’t notice people’s eye’s glaze over as much.

    Something was bothering me about my explanation. So I checked – apparently the G actually stands for Galois not General. However in first year we had no idea who that was. So perhaps I mis-remembered or my prof was sparing us. Wiki and Mathworld both have articles on Galios Fields if you’re interested they have some useful detail and all use positive integers in their notation.

    In case you’re interested there is actually some practical application for this. A Galois field is used to represent the parity calculations for RAID6 (an arrangement of disks with error correction such that you can lose any two and not lose any data). If you google “The Mathematics of RAID 6” you’ll find a paper that explains it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Then point out where I was wrong.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ron, just for reference KNOWING more than you about some subject isn’t a sign of a swollen head.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Johnny I just copied and pasted this post of yours and I gave it to my daughter and asked her to show it to as many teachers as she can when she goes to work today.

    More Ron Roy fan fiction.

    You know 99.9% of the population would have no idea as to what the heck your talking about.

    I get that not everyone is has the same education in the same field. Which is why people should be happy to explain themselves. When I talk to a biologist, doctor or engineer I have to ask them what they mean occasionally. To paraphrase Will McAvoy from his speech in the first episode of The Newsroom – We should aspire to intelligence; not belittle it; it shouldn’t make us feel inferior. To me, someone saying something I don’t understand is an opportunity to learn. To you it makes you feel inferior.

    You post things like this just to make yourself look more intelligent than anyone else.

    Thanks for proving my point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yeah THAT makes people comfortable talking about their identity with Lowell. Also explains why he constantly tries to bully it out of people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again Ron, the difference is that I’ve pointed out how your argument is just “How dare you?” yet you can never seem to point out an actual problem with my arguments.

  • Honestly, it can be an obstacle to communication. Presenting more information than needed can be a very aggressive way of belittling the person you’re talking to. It’s kind of like being in a conversation with an equal, then climbing a set of stairs for no other reason but to look down at them as you talk to them. It can make people feel defensive and under attack. Frankly, I was pretty annoyed by the first math post where you seemed to be going out of your way to assert intellectual dominance. As wrong as Ron can be, I think he’s talking about something you could improve.

  • AutismDadd

    Really? A Pro-vac sock puppet with tendency to loonism? Quick, get the vaccine with thimerosal ,aluminum and formaldehyde extra strength ready.

  • AutismDadd

    EXCELLENT!!!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry about that, I was just being funny. I agree that too much information can impede conversation and the extra information was in that case deliberate but as I said the point was humor. It also seemed pretty likely that the correct answer would make it across successfully. I like to think that I wouldn’t bother mentioning extraneous information like that when dealing with a more complex message.

    But in a broader sense It’s interesting that your impression was one of me asserting dominance. To me it’s almost the opposite. I’m treating people as my intellectual equals.

    So while some of my posts are on the long side I tend to think that a sign of the depth of understanding of a field Shying away from simple answers and migrating to more lengthy ones was something my professors would do as well. Take for example Bertrand Russel’s set theoretic proof for 1 + 1 = 2 is about 200 pages long.

    Perhaps I’ll try adding just some parenthetical comments to indicate that there are important but complicated caveats to whatever I just said.

  • AutismDadd

    The average person would never use these forums to harass parents of vaccine victims like this w/o some motivation. Its obvious they are paid or work in the industry.

  • AutismDadd

    Good boy. Six pack all done now?

  • AutismDadd

    Says the pos

  • AutismDadd

    Why would I want that? Dude you are coma inducing.

  • AutismDadd

    If I was Lowell I’d stop wasting time on you.

  • AutismDadd

    Where’s your research to prove that? At least give us some math.

  • AutismDadd

    Got terminated huh?

  • AutismDadd

    Apparently you do get it.

  • AutismDadd

    You needle him, you antagonize him, you attempt to silence him. His response is understandable.

  • AutismDadd

    Nope not looking back. This story outlines a 13 year old child’s destruction from vaccination. It took the court 5 years to admit it, a crime in itself for a NO FAULT system. So lets hear you whine and weasel your way out of acknowledging that vaccines maim children.

  • AutismDadd

    Wrong

  • The image in my head was that it would be better to point to the stairs instead of climbing them. For instance, “interestingly, even such a simple problem can have more than one answer! For instance…”

    Intelligence is a form of power just like strength or hierarchical authority, so seeing somebody “flaunting” their intelligence can feel a lot like watching them ominously punch their palm or display their academy class ring.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You spend a significant portion of your time here talking to me. So perhaps this is not a “if I was Lowell” isn’t a good metaphor.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Do you mean where is the research showing Lowell doesn’t understand? It’s just the likelihood based on his lack of response on the subject.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ve never been compensated by anyone to post here (or anywhere). Hope that helps.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I get that you have a problem.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope. Those are pretty much things you have made up to justify your behavior as much as his. As usual you can’t demonstrate any examples of these things so, as usual the evidence is against your position.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope not looking back.

    You asked how I felt about something. I can’t talk usefully how I feel about a case I haven’t read about. So I offered something I did read about.

    a crime in itself for a NO FAULT system.

    Again, you appear to have something like a mental block impeding your understanding of what a no-fault insurance system is.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually it’s correct. I am pointing out what is apparently true.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Seems like reasonable advice.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually they are, and all paid off to do so.

    Probably nobody is paid to post to you Lowell. I’m certainly not.

    I think I may need to stop posting here on this site

    Robbing me of entertainment.

    and to cut off so called David’s connected funding money which he is providing to these trolls and shills.

    Except that he’s not.

    Do you know that he admitted to that?

    He didn’t.

    I was informed of and already knew that there was a funder

    Unlikely.

    and his recent statements directly confirmed that.

    No they didn’t.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re a troll’s idea of a troll

  • Polak

    I love you Mr Hubbs.The comedy that you provide here is ASTOUNDING,and the best thing about it is that it’s FREE.

  • Jesus baby

    Hang out with Lowell a lot?

  • Ron Roy

    No you just proved mine.

  • Polak

    I think KEN double posted by mistake,I think the post was meant for Mr Hubbs,I could be wrong.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not really. Notice how I provided a pretty clear definition as to what I was trying to demonstrate with your text and then provided a quote from you illustrating that.

    Notice how you provided none of that? :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    I think Ken was doing an experiment on both Lowell and myself.

  • Please could you give me a link to the judgement?

  • It’s been long enough that I think I can spill it — I assume both Jonathan and Lowell know that 1+1=2, but I wanted to see if they were both willing to actually say so. My guess was that, since the answer to 1+1 doesn’t lead predictably to a point Lowell wants to make, he’d refuse to answer. I think he’s afraid that I’d somehow use 1+1=2 to discredit him if he admitted it. I thought he’d reply with a bunch of complaints and excuses, but instead he’s just kept mum.

  • Polak

    Well Ken as usual and no surprise that you have beaten Mr Hubbs AGAIN and as usual he has scurried back to his little hole licking his wounds.What will he come up with next?I wait with bated breath.

  • Again, you are arguing nothing of actual relevance to the issue. You have no actual ability to address or argue anything of relevance. All you do is falsely and repeatedly antagonize people, with your crazy and twisted nonsense.

  • And all while every post you continue make here, is actually nothing but crap.

  • But you clearly have polluted this forum, with your ongoing nonsense. And as far as our posts, no one here has received any falsely accused blame, for anything.

    How about starting with these questions that you continue to refuse to answer?

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Who is Brian? I thought his name was posted as David? He is clearly connected to the funding that goes on here, regarding some of the shills that are posting, and in case you missed his posts. What goes on is as well much bigger than that.

    And now in your insanity you are even attempting to argue what the term, conflicts of interest, actually mean; and which is truly, (laughable). No one here is interested in reading any more of your denial of the obvious. Again, you are simply a coward, and regardless of your refusal to admit it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, you are arguing nothing of actual relevance to the issue.

    It only appears to you this way because you have a misguided notion that you get to define the issue. You don’t. Ron said something, I pointed out a problem with what he said. That is well within the reasonable definition of “the issue”. The idea that you believe there is some larger point that I’m not addressing and therefore I am not being relevant is like so much of what you believe…a near complete fiction. :-)

    repeatedly antagonize people

    Lowell the only thing that I don’t do. Is let you choose what I talk about. As much as you wish it otherwise that does not amount to antagonism. It instead amounts to: “Leave if you don’t like it”. If you like talking to me (and you do) then you lose the excuse that you are being antagonized. If you don’t, there are so many opportunities to avoid it – you also lose the excuse.

    The vast majority of times you are jumping into conversations I’m having with other people and demanding that I talk to you. Again you lose the excuse to claim that I’m antagonizing you if you jump into a conversation I’m having and I’m not interested in talking about whatever you are mumbling about. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well I am consistently on topic for the thing I’m discussing which if not directly related to the parent article then are directly related to something someone said in response.

    Your issue appears to be that you believe you get to tell me what to talk about and I’m not sure how you came under that misapprehension but a misapprehension it is. :-)

  • In fact I have never created a blog on anyone that had not created one with the deliberate intention of attacking me, and those I have been associated with. Nor have I ever had any intent to. You hide your identity simply because you are a coward, and for no other reason. You hide that identity and as well specifically so that no one can determine your direct conflicts of interest; thus you can just keep on denying that you have any. What a twisted man you are.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you clearly have polluted this forum, with your ongoing nonsense.

    Lowell you simply don’t understand what I’m talking about most times. Hence you lose the right to claim I’m talking about nonsense. Sorry. That’s the way it is.

    How about starting with these questions that you continue to refuse to answer?

    Lowell I have been trying to respond to you for months but you simply don’t believe you should explain your argument to the point at which I understand it. Again you should be sufficiently intelligent to see how that position of yours excludes you from demanding that I answer your questions. QED.

  • Actually he is not on here every night, and at times there are many days that go by and without seeing a post from him.

    How many of these every day reply posting shills, are you directly funding?

  • Do you even have any sense at all as to how actually ignorant, endlessly lying crazy, and beyond dumb you are, and continue to look?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ll just point out that yet again you are jumping into a conversation I’m having with someone else and demanding I talk to you. So you lose any claim to antagonism.

    I have never created a blog on anyone that had not first themselves created one with the deliberate intention of falsely attacking me with misinformation, and and as well those I have been associated with. Nor have I ever had any intent to

    Look Lowell I don’t expect you to understand this but what Jesus Baby and myself are talking about is your rather explicit statement in your video about harming someone. Like it or not, nobody rational is interested in giving any information about themselves to someone who may just decide that they need to harm them in some way. Given how much invective you through out not to mention threats of “teaching me a lesson”. Isn’t doing anything to make me think I’ve made the wrong decision.

    You hide your identity

    I don’t. I simply don’t disclose it. Different thing.

    because you are a coward,

    No because I am rational. This doesn’t make sense to you because you aren’t rational. Remember this is something I do for entertainment. So it’s absolutely correct to risk nothing.

    You hide that identity

    Again you need to learn the difference between hiding and not disclosing.

    specifically so that no one can determine your direct conflicts of interest

    I thought you had indisputable evidence telling you that I am a paid agent and whom I’m paid by? Which is it? Can nobody determine my conflicts of interest or do you know already?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell, I get that you are unwilling or unable to understand but it’s actually you that looks crazy and deceptive to the vast majority of people. You can’t substantiate any of the accusations you made.

  • So did you think it was as well funny when I directly made a fool of you, and your reply posts?

  • We all know that responding to you is a waste of time, other than to put you in your place, and as to what you claim to. Its all done for the public viewing of your level of pro-vax, falsely antagonizing, insanity.

  • You have no actual ability to address or argue anything of relevance.

    This, from the guy who could be ably replaced by a bot…

  • David

    Again your histrionic personality disorder with fixed delusions is shining through that you actually think someone would pay to post here. You are a non entity. Uneducated. No one has heard of you or your website on the international stage

  • David

    Challenge you to point to a single day in the last year when autism dad did not post. He obviously has no life except to make stupid and silly comments on here.
    Like you and Ron Roy.

  • What part of this don”t you understand? No one cares to read of any more of your twisted and ridiculous claims. Your level of posting only more denial of your failure, and in attempted to bolstered it all with only more of your irrelevant levels of insanity, is all to obvious.

  • Jonathan Graham

    We all know that responding to you is a waste of time

    Only because you want it to be.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Apparently you care to read it. You even care sufficiently well to respond.

  • It takes a really twisted person to come up with the bullshit that you post. No one actually needs to respond to such levels of irrelevance and stupidity.

  • See? Another comment that’s interchangeable with any other Lowell Hubbs comment. Maybe you are a bot and we’ve all been had!

  • Really? Scurrying from what; the level of obviously irrelevant stupidity being posted? You can’t do it on your own, Polak boy; so you hook up with these fools, and then make yourself into an even bigger blabbering fool than you were before.

  • You were already had by the false big pharma propaganda that you were sheeple suckered into believing, and that you continue to promote. And the best you can do is ask, what is one plus one. How pathetic is that?

  • Ever notice how he’s so reliant on his keywords and stock accusations that most of his comments could be swapped out with each other? They rarely contain any specific or relevant content — they’re just restating his belief that everybody who doesn’t agree with him is obviously a foolish, sick, twisted, insane, irrelevant, ignorant, crazy, delusional, beyond dumb, trolling shill spreading false discreditation.

  • But the evidence shows that just the opposite outcome for you, is actually happening.

  • Not as pathetic as your inability to answer.

  • How does that apply to the issue of vaccines and vaccine safety? Perhaps you fell down the stairs and knocked your head into the wall? This is not a math forum, it is a vaccine informational truth articles, website.

  • Talk about a twisted rant that says nothing.

  • No one cares, Jonny. See if you can reboot your self serving and arrogant thought processes, and actually post replies on the vaccine issues that these articles are about.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yep, vague rebuttals, and hiding ones argument are two defining characteristics of the people who are strongly vaccine critical (here anyway). Again I think that’s an environmental thing, who could survive for so long against the amount of evidence in a forum where the conversation isn’t being controlled except by doing those two things.

  • And you actually expect a reply to that level of twisted bullshit? You might as well just get it through your thick head that you do not dictate how evidence and facts are determined, and in regard to what you claim is only acceptable to you. No one cares what is acceptable to you, and you as well design it so nothing ever would and/or will be. Such are your levels of in denial, sickness.

  • Hang out with David, a lot?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry Lowell, I have no idea what you’re saying there. Again you’re jumping into a conversation – so you lose the excuse that you are being antagonized. What Ron was saying is that because I said something that 99.9% of the population doesn’t understand that is evidence of having a swollen head. I simply pointed out the difference between knowing more than the general population about some subject and acting as if one knows everything.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ken asked me a question. I answered it. If you have a problem with the question you should consult him.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It wasn’t a rant. I was agreeing, for the most part with Ken’s critique of my post.

  • So you are ok with that you are sheeple that would fall for anything.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Apparently you care. Not just sufficiently to read my posts but to respond to them. Ken and I were talking about something. Ken had some good feedback for me. I’m happy to discuss vaccine issues with anyone who can explain their position to the point that I can understand it. You have deliberately excluded yourself from that list.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s not bullshit. It’s logic. It’s a pretty fundamental tenet of logic. If someone makes an argument of the form “It’s either X or Y” and X and Y are not mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive then it’s known as a false dichotomy.

    you do not dictate how evidence and facts are determined

    I haven’t dictated anything. Logic, one could argue isn’t even something that’s dictated by anyone perhaps even defined by anyone. It could instead be considered a consequence of a couple of rather obvious principles.!!A = A and P->Q (I can explain these if you like)

  • I’d suggest using an example, like “this shirt is either dark or it is green,” but the poor fellow’s a few elements short of a matrix anyway…

  • The only thing dangerous about me is found the fact that I put forth the real vaccine truth information, (and I do a good job of it), and that is dangerous to the and your continued promotion of the known false vaccine propaganda that you insist on continuing to promote. The amount of vaccines and the number of vaccine doses given today, and with no legal liability for any harm done; is what is really and actually dangerous. That, combined with the complete denial of what they have done, and continue to do.

    Vaccine Injured ~ Memorial to the Fallen
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFqOYIn2my4&list=LLIEi1ThUpCve05QPT2lfadw&index=8

  • Jonathan Graham

    Agreed. Normally I’d use a concrete example but I’ve kind of come to the belief that it doesn’t much matter when talking to Lowell. It’s all foolish, sick, twisted, insane, irrelevant, ignorant, crazy, delusional, beyond dumb, trolling shill spreading false discreditation talk or FSTIIICDBDTSPFD as I’m just going to start calling it.

  • Primarily it is vaccines, as the cause. You can deny it all you want, but it does not change the reality of it.

  • Its not logic, it is bullshit, and the only way that you can evade the evidence of existing facts. Again, in your arrogance, you are not going to just tell me by and on your bullshit terms, what is or is not acceptable to you, and again and again evade what is put in front of you. If you can’t see what a load of in denial sickness you continue to post; then something is beyond wrong with you.

  • Just another load of your continued bullshit. That position has been explained to you in and by multiple forms, and all you do is present again with your twisted excuses to claim that nothing is ever good enough for you. That is a major reason that this site should have banned you long ago, and as all you promote is further denial, evasion, and only more deliberate antagonization.

  • It was again just a bunch of arrogant and twisted crazy, and that was all it was.

  • No, I have a problem with your arrogance and your answer, and as I pointed out. Being asked what is one plus one, does not require a twisted and full blown expose of unrelated issues.

  • How does you mind come up with all these twisted loads of bullshit? I was replying to the current third post above this one.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Its not logic

    Actually it is. Quite a number of logic texts mention this fallacy you made.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell it doesn’t matter what you imagine you’ve done. I still don’t understand your argument. Sorry. If you’re going to demand I discuss something you’ve said then clearly you need to explain it so I can understand. Otherwise you have no grounds to make your demand. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell you don’t understand what I was talking about. So that excludes you from the group who can comment. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell, I was making a joke and like most jokes it’s related to the subject. If you don’t see how, you should re-read. :-)

  • No one ever needs to answer such a stupid question.

    What is really pathetic is your inability to stick to the vaccine issues.

    In your hypocrisy, you can start answering these questions and which you have previously ignored.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    My response to Antonio Baduy Cámara, and the blog Skeptical Raptor, as to their response to 9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxer’s
    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    This particular topic was between Ron Roy and me. You jumped in. So again, you lose the ability to claim that you are being antagonized. :-)

  • Many of your posts I have never read, other than to see the nature of what is there. You better get your swollen head to bed, its late.

  • All of your posts are a pathetic joke, and that does not mean in any funny sense of the term.

  • I fully understand what you were talking about, and when you become editor of this site, you can exclude people, but until then you will just have to continue to face the music.

  • You have refused to answer to and discuss these questions for endless months now. Don’t you think you should stop making your false excuses to evade anything and everything for facts and evidence that are put in front of you. That’s right, all you are here to do is falsely antagonize. You have the ability to do nothing more than that.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    Don’t try to copy Antonio Baduy Cámara, because that has already been well covered.

    ​My response to Antonio Baduy Cámara, and the blog Skeptical Raptor, as to their response to 9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxer’s
    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Just another pointless reply.

  • Just keep spewing your pointless drivel.

  • I wonder why you’re so scared to tell me what one plus one is. It’s really, really strange! An honest person would be able to just answer the question and put it to rest.

    As expected, my experiment shows that Lowell Hubbs is unable to tell the truth, even about something as trivial as basic arithmetic.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Then you have read them. So you cared to read them. So at least one person – you – cares about what I’m saying. QED

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and I was making a joke in the funny sense of the term.

  • So now you are again by your twisted means, trying to redefine the term, antagonized; and all in the effort to claim that are not ever doing it. You are such a piece of work.

    And how many times have you jumped in where you weren’t being replied to?

  • Jonathan Graham

    No Lowell you can only pretend you understand. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    I can’t respond to something you won’t explain. What’s interesting is you seem to think that your continued refusal to explain somehow changes the fact that I don’t understand.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No it simply affirms that what I’m talking about is about logic.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You seem to forget what posts you’ve already responded to.

  • It is already completely and entirely explained for you on that page. You deliberately claim to not understand, and simply because you refuse to admit that you have no answers. So instead you just continue to antagonize me with false excuses. See how you are? There are very few trolling shills more in denial, full of lies and false excuses, and any more twisted than you are, so called, Graham.

  • What an idiot. Go to bed.

  • Then you have a really warped sense of being funny.

  • Your persistent and ongoing twisted level of self flattery, is simply amazing.

  • What a seriously twisted reply. And just because a person ignores your irrelevant stupidity, that somehow evolves into being now dishonest? 1 + 1 = 2. There, now get to answering those 9 questions.

  • Sometimes you need a double take.

  • You wouldn’t know logic if it swooped down and bit your head off. Get real.

  • Thanks!

  • And your point is?

  • David

    Sure Lowell. You keep telling yourself that. Maybe if you had a basic understanding of statistics you would realize why your propositions are so preposterous.
    You keep referencing you tube and home made articles and call it the truth. All from your arm chair
    The rest of us who are actually taking care of sick people will keep doing what we are doing.
    How about I come and check on you in another year….you will still be here, no further ahead

  • Jesus baby

    So you can’t name any injury a person can only get from vaccines. Can you grasp the importance of that?

  • Jesus baby

    I don’t see David as a big drinker, Lowell.

  • thanks

    Pronunciation

    IPA: /θæŋks/ or /ðæŋks/

    Etymology

    From Middle English thanks, thankes, from Old English þancas ‎(“thanks”), from Proto-Germanic *þankōs, nominative plural of Proto-Germanic *þankaz ‎(“thought, gratitude”), from Proto-Indo-European *teng- ‎(“to think, feel”).

    Interjection

    thanks
    Used to express appreciation or gratitude.

  • Mike Stevens

    As tragic as this case may be, readers should appreciate that transverse myelitis is around 100 times more likely to follow natural chickenpox infection than to follow vaccination.
    For every child disabled by vaccine, there are hundreds disabled or killed by chickenpox.

  • I know I’m going back in time, but I want to make sure I get what you’re saying. If I understand you correctly, a Galois Field is pretty much a finite number line with the ends stitched together?

  • Mike Stevens

    You said they “conducted research”, not that someone else has done research.
    Do you know how words work, and what meaning they convey?

    Perhaps we should mimic the antivax view on diseases caused by infections (namely that they don’t matter because you can give people vitamins), and say transverse myelitis is no big deal because… …marijuana.

  • Mike Stevens

    I favour the mental health issue option.

  • I don’t — I’d hate to think I’m making fun of somebody for being sick.

  • Mike Stevens

    It’s better than free… have you forgotten that we are all apparently paid to read it?
    ;-)

  • AutismDadd

    Nope. But Say Hi to Paul Offit for me.

  • AutismDadd

    I’m like Zoro

  • AutismDadd

    True, or apparently true? Apparently sounds like correlation.

  • AutismDadd

    Simply read the story, DON’T substitute another one ..face palm

  • AutismDadd

    Back to lying I see

  • AutismDadd

    And that problem has a name J Graham

  • AutismDadd

    Lying never helps. Who raised you the Mafia?

  • AutismDadd

    Lowell toys with you and makes you look foolish.

  • AutismDadd

    I’m not talking to you, I’m teaching you some lessons.

  • David W

    I’m not paid. It’s all part of my volunteer hours required by the illuminati and the lizard overlords.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No I’m not redefining the term. I’m explaining that if you deliberately join my conversation with someone else about something you don’t like. You really can’t describe those people as “antagonizing” you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It is already completely and entirely explained for you on that page.

    It simply does not form a cogent argument for me. Furthermore you can’t phrase it as a formal argument and nobody else here can explain it to me. That’s pretty good evidence that the problem is you and not me.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell if you understood we could discuss it and that would be that. However you don’t seem able. So I suspect that your understanding is either pretense or confabulation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s really no different than some UK humor works. Blackadder and Yes, Minister both involve jokes that work this way.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell, most of your responses are interchangeable streams of mindless insult.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s not flattery. It’s pointing out an obvious fact. Which also seems to present a flaw in your argument.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh? Define “logic” Lowell without using any reference material.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes, that’s mostly correct. A Galois Field is just a field with a finite number of members. You’ve got that part. A field is defined as something which is closed under two operations: addition and multiplication. This means that we can’t use addition or multiplication on members in the field and end up with members outside of the field. Which is why we’ve stitched the ends together. There are other criteria which are required for the field to be considered closed which go beyond stitching the ends together. Also I’d use the term “finite set” rather than “finite number line” but that’s just quibbling.

  • A number line does seem like a very simple way of visualizing the boundaries of the set!

  • Archive.is.

  • Can you explain…every other country in the world?

  • It may be true that Jesus Baby is a pharma shill, an idiot or a troll or just plain evil. However, this has nothing to do with the truth of their claims. Attacking the man and not the argument is a signal of a weak argument. This doesn’t mean that you can’t out shills – it just means that a)you should provide evidence and b)failing that, you should at the very least call them shills AFTER you have rebutted them.

    Baseless shill gambits earn a flag and a downvote from me.

  • Polak

    Gee you are RIGHT,not only free but we get paid as well,silly me I forgot,thanks Mike.

  • Polak

    Well Mr Hubbs your reply is that of a beaten anti vaxxer,despite the fact that I have been polite to you. You have resorted to call me names,why am I not surprised?

  • Polak

    Well I would certainly believe him rather than you.

  • Polak

    The only fool you are making here is of yourself.

  • Ron Roy

    Joe go back to bed.

  • Ron Roy

    No that’s you Joe.

  • Ron Roy

    Reported complications from the chicken pox vaccine include shock,
    seizures, encephalitis/brain inflammation, blood disorder,
    Guillain-Barre syndrome, and death. As of September 1, 2015, 122 claims
    were filed in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for
    serious injuries and deaths following the chicken pox vaccination,
    including eight deaths.

    Using the MEDAlerts search engine, as of September 30, 2015, there
    were 3,358 serious adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events
    Reporting System (VAERS) which were connected with the chickenpox
    vaccination. These reports of serious injury had occurred since 1990.
    More than half of the serious injuries reported were in children 6 years
    of age or younger. 161 deaths were reported. By 2011, nearly 50,000
    total reports of adverse events were made to VAERS. [9]

    Effectiveness And Related Issues Of The Chicken Pox Vaccination

    A 2002 CDC study reported that the chicken pox vaccine was only 44
    percent effective against the disease. Because of breakthrough of
    chicken pox in children vaccinated, a booster shot was recommended for
    all children ages 4-6.

    Another 2002 study showed that adults exposed to children with
    natural immunity to chicken pox benefited from protection from shingles
    later in life. Due to concern that mass vaccination of children against
    chicken pox may lead to a shingles epidemic, Merck developed the
    shingles vaccine in 2006. The CDC recommends this vaccine for all adults
    over age 60. [10] https://vactruth.com/2016/05/26/chicken-pox-vaccine/

  • Jonathan Graham

    I did, there’s simply insufficient information to usefully comment. I get that you’re easily swayed by things you already believe. I’m not interested in becoming as gullible as yourself. Thanks for the offer.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s correct that I was pointing out that which was apparently true.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s absolutely true – by your own admission – that you can’t demonstrate any examples. This does put the evidence against your position. Sorry.

  • Jonathan Graham

    More correctly your problem is that you can’t see your rather significant part in our conversation dynamic. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not lying. Sorry. It’s pretty awesome that you’re so irate now that you are blindly grasping at anything hurtful. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh? How so?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m not talking to you

    Yes, you are. Sorry. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes. My slight aversion is that a line might communicate continuity – that there are values between each element in a field. However there are no numbers between the elements of a field. Like I said: I’m Nitpicking.

  • Oh! Well, that helps me visualize it even better!

  • Mike Stevens

    I hope readers appreciate just how deceptive and deceitful Antivax campaigners and sources can be, and how one has to cross check every single “fact” they trumpet, since these are likely to be lies.

    As an example, I took one snippet of information that Ron sourced from “vac truth” (anything on the Internet with the word “truth” in the name is likely to be the complete opposite):
    “A 2002 CDC study reported that the chicken pox vaccine was only 44
    percent effective against the disease.”

    What did the CDC say, really?

    One dose effectiveness for prevention of all Varicella = median 85% (range 44%-100%).
    One dose effectiveness for prevention of combined moderate and severe Varicella = median 97% (range 86%-100%).
    One dose effectiveness for prevention of severe Varicella = median 100% (range 97%-100%).

    Two dose effectiveness for prevention of any disease = 98%.
    Two dose effectiveness for prevention of severe disease = 100%.

    That reads somewhat differently to what vactruth would have you believe.

  • Mike Stevens

    You must have upset them; I get paid $25 per “volunteer” post.

  • shay simmons

    Well, Ron never reads his citations (or anyone else’s) anyway.

  • Jesus baby

    I wonder if it’s possible someday people like Ron, Lowell, A-dad and Jeffry will realize they’ve been lied to for years, but that it’s not the guvment.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell feels no shame in facilitating funding the very people he claims are polluting this forum. Talk about a lack of ethics.

  • It is obvious that we have all been mislead and lied to in regard to vaccine safety and efficacy. The correct description of that outcome is that it is you that has refused to question, and do anything but simply continue believe the misinformation and the lies that you have been fed.

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery
    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Here is an example of just some of the information found on this above page.

    Autism rise linked to chickenpox vaccine containing aborted fetal DNA
    http://www.examiner.com/article/autism-rise-linked-to-chickenpox-vaccine-containing-aborted-fetal-dna?cid=rss

    Chickenpox Vaccine Use is Highly Statistically Related to Autism Disorder

    Source: Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Insitute

    By Dr. Theresa Deisher

    Over four years ago it was obvious to my eye that autism disorder rates changed dramatically in certain specific years. Looking at autism disorder prevalence data from the US Dept of Education it was clear that there were three specific years in which autism prevalence rose dramatically, and Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute (SCPI) went on to perform the statistical analysis to show that 1980, 1988 and 1996 were ‘changepoint’ years for autism disorder. In 2010 the EPA published data confirming the 1988 changepoint as a worldwide autism disorder changepoint. As the EPA scientists point out in their publication, identification of ‘changepoints’ such as these tell us that some environmental factor was introduced that triggered such a sudden and dramatic rise in autism. Pasted below are the 3 changepoints Sound Choice identified for autism disorder prevalence in the US.

    What environmental factor is associated with these three changepoints? The only childhood universal factor that is associated with all three changepoints is the introduction of vaccines contaminated with aborted fetal DNA and retroviral fragments. In 1979 the first aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (MMRII), in 1989 a second dose of this vaccine was added and compliance doubled, and in 1995 another aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (Varicella – chickenpox).

    Read More:
    http://onemoresoul.com/news-commentary/chickenpox-vaccine-use-is-highly-statistically-related-to-autism-disorder.html

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster

    Gary S. Goldman, Medical Veritas International (MVI), Pearblossom, California, USA

    Do you actually think that the rationalization for a varicella, (chicken pox vaccine, and as well the now so called shingles vaccine, which is the same thing, only with more antigen in it), was NOT that rationale motivated by profits?

    Excerpt from the Conclusion:

    The potential intervention to provide a booster varicella (or shingles) vaccination to adults aged 60 years and older (Oxman 1995) will fail to ameliorate the greatest potential for increased burden of HZ disease among adults aged 90%) one-dose coverage. Optimal timing of the second dose may depend on whether breakthrough varicella results from primary vaccine failure (no protective immunity after vaccination) or secondary vaccine failure (waning protective immunity).

    Methods: Published literature (1995-2012) on vaccine failure following varicella vaccination cited in PubMed and other online sources was reviewed.

    Results: Nineteen publications detailed 21 varicella outbreaks with breakthrough varicella rates ranging from 0% to 42%; the publications showed no consistent trend between breakthrough varicella rate and time since vaccination.

    Conclusions: Literature to-date indicates a relatively high rate of primary vaccine failure and limited evidence of secondary vaccine failure amongst one-dose varicella vaccine recipients, suggesting that a short interval between two doses might be preferable in countries considering implementation of universal varicella vaccination to reduce breakthrough varicella. However, any potential disruption to well-established vaccination schedules should be considered.

    http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/publishahead/Primary_Versus_Secondary_Failure_Following.98429.aspx

    Epidemiologist Confirms Serious Outbreak of Chicken Pox, 97 Percent Who Were Vaccinated

    “Vigo County usually has less than 10 cases a year; however, since the end of September, Vigo County has reported 84 cases which would meet the definition of an unusual occurrence of disease,” Dr. Joan Duwve, M.D., of the Indiana State Department of Health, told the Tribune-Star. “Prompt identification, investigation and control of chickenpox outbreaks are important. Even mild cases can be contagious.”

    To cover-up the wild increase for the disease, public health officials are blaming one unvaccinated child as the cause despite 97 percent of vaccinated children contracting chicken pox. More than 85 percent of those vaccinated received FULL VACCINATIONS.

    The Indiana Coalition for Vaccination Choice reported this on their Facebook page.

    Placed another call to the Indiana State Department of Health. Was able to reach the epidemiologist working the chicken pox outbreak. There are a total of 92 cases so far. Only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. They are seeing fewer lesions in the fully vaccinated. Zero deaths. Possibly one hospitalization but not sure off the top of their head. Zero complications from chicken pox. We were told that only one chicken pox vaccine was supposed to provide lifelong immunity but this did not turn out to be the case. A booster was added and yet we are seeing a very high rate of fully vaccinated children contracting chicken pox. We asked if another booster will be mandated and told possibly. We asked about vaccine failures and were told this is not vaccine failure because the severity of lesions in the fully vaccinated was less than if never vaccinated and that no vaccine is 100% effective. We were told that if vaccines save one life they are worth it. We asked how many children died from chicken pox before the vaccine. This epidemiologist was unsure.

    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/12/11/epidemiologist-confirms-serious-outbreak-of-chicken-pox-97-percent-who-were-vaccinated/

    See now how they spin it ALL??? NEVER admit to failure of ANY vaccine, nor any harm; not even as to Gardasil. Pertussis vaccine, covering up the failure, and the same spin only worse! More doses and more boosters needed.

    Chickenpox outbreak makes strong case for vaccination. (Really? Failed vaccination, again makes a strong case for vaccination, and re-vaccination; injected dose after dose. What kind of as well failed logic, is that?)
    http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20121128/OPINION03/311280016/Annette-Mercatante-Chickenpox-outbreak-makes-strong-case-vaccination

    Largest Chickenpox Outbreak In The U.S. Hits Vigo County In Indiana, (84 cases)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/chickenpox-outbreak-largest-vigo-county-indiana_n_2199231.html

    Varicella Vaccine Effectiveness in the US Vaccination Program: A Review

    Study excerpt:

    Outbreak investigations.

    Most studies of varicella vaccine effectiveness have been conducted during outbreak investigations. These investigations all used a retrospective cohort study design with clinically diagnosed disease as the outcome. Details on illness were obtained retrospectively from parents and health care providers, with some information (and case reports) obtained prospectively if the outbreak was ongoing. In recent years, standard practice during outbreaks has been to confirm some varicella cases through laboratory testing [8, 21, 23, 24]. Thirteen investigations of outbreaks provided 16 separate estimates of vaccine effectiveness for the prevention of all varicella that ranged from 44%–100% (mean, 79.9%; median, 84.5%), with higher estimates for the prevention of combined moderate and severe varicella (mean, 95.6%; median, 96.5%) and severe varicella only (100%) [8–10, 13–16, 18, 21–24]. During the early years of the varicella vaccination program, outbreaks were reported to occur predominantly in child care centers [13, 17, 18]. In more-recent years, outbreaks have been reported to occur almost exclusively in elementary schools, some of which have extremely high vaccine coverage (96%–98%) [10, 19, 21, 25].

    Read more:
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S82.long

    Wow, really impressive huh? Look at the references; and it all looks as quackery crazy as a cat chasing its tail.

    When even the CDC admits to outbreaks in the vaccinated; and then down plays it claiming, oh well; it should lessen the severity of the case if the child gets two doses.

    Chickenpox (Varicella)

    Outbreaks

    See Control & Investigation of Outbreaks for guidance in monitoring, investigating and controlling varicella outbreaks.

    Data on the number of chickenpox (varicella) outbreaks that occur each year in the United States are limited. But, since the chickenpox vaccine was introduced, the number of outbreaks has gone down.

    Chickenpox outbreaks continue to occur even in settings such as schools where most children are vaccinated with one dose. However, there have been fewer outbreaks reported ever since the two-dose chickenpox vaccination program started in the United States. Also, these outbreaks have been smaller. The vaccine may not prevent all chickenpox, but it is very effective at preventing severe cases.

    http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/outbreaks.html

    Then the AAP. (Again questionable vaccine effectiveness)

    Article

    Chickenpox Outbreak in a Highly Vaccinated School Population

    Conclusions. A chickenpox outbreak occurred in a school in which 97% of students without a prior history of chickenpox were vaccinated. Students vaccinated >5 years before the outbreak were at risk for breakthrough disease. Booster vaccination may deserve additional consideration.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/3/455.full

    Varicella Outbreaks After Vaccine Licensure: Should They Make You Chicken?

    Vaccinated children with varicella had milder disease than unvaccinated. In conclusion, we found varicella outbreaks in CCCs with both high and low vaccination coverage. Vaccine effectiveness was within the range predicted by the literature. Vaccination led to a lower attack rate in the highly vaccinated CCC and appeared to protect from severe disease.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/104/3/561.full

    But yet in the mainstream literature they are still attempting to claim the varicella vaccine, is 90% effective; so WHICH is it?

    The question is, in an illness that is generally mild and recovered from without complications in a few days; would you want to trade a less severe case of varicella, for the toxicity and contaminant potential of the vaccine? And what effect does the vaccine have on developing that life time immunity acquired with natural infection? They don’t tell you, do they? What is the answer? So, they are trading increased chances of and cases of shingles, and the added need of a shingles vaccine, for THIS? They are trading for THIS, knowing there will be need of life time varicella boosters. Shingles vaccine is only a stronger antigen form of the varicella vaccine, as you will recall. And the woman who becomes pregnant at lets say for example age 21-26; are they going to test for believed protective, antibody titers? Eventually, will they vaccinate during pregnancy? And actually, how can they claim there is no pharma for profit madness going on here?

    Varicella Outbreak Among Vaccinated Children — Nebraska, 2004
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5527a3.htm

    Lets take a LOOK at what is actually in the varicella vaccine! THAT is a lot of chemical and biologically altered CRAP, to be injecting in your child!

    Chicken pox (varicella) Vaccines
    Varivax (VZV) varicella virus, live
    Manufacturer Merck

    Microorganism Varicella zoster (chickenpox) virus, Oka/Merck strain
    Licensed 07/12/2006

    Recommendations Two injections in children, adults two injections

    Ingredients: Gelatin, Monosodium Glutamate (MSG), Human Diploid cells: MRC5 proteins, Neomycin, Sucrose, Sodium chloride, Sodium phosphate-monobasic, Sodium phosphate-dibasic dodecahydrate, Bovine (cow) serum, Potassium phosphate, Human diploid cells (WI-38), Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), Potassium chloride, Glutamate.

    Product Descriptions

    Package Insert:
    http://www.novaccine.com/pdffiles/VARIVAX_III_package_insert.pdf

    http://www.fda.gov/cber/efoi/approve.htm

    http://www.novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=14

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid Cells (aborted fetal cell tissue) not a good situation
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Shingles Goes Epidemic: Chicken Pox Vaccine to Blame

    Shingles Goes Epidemic: Chicken Pox Vaccine to Blame

    Should it be important to know, THIS? Why is the CDC not telling anyone nor putting any of that forth? Instead they again paint only a rose garden picture with more fear mongering, about the getting vaccinated for varicella, benefits. Ask, why was there no seen need for a shingles vaccine prior to the varicella vaccine; trading one short term low risk illness for a potentially long term, other; and more repeat toxic and potentially ineffective vaccinations. More harm than good. Typical.

    Excerpts: A Developing Shingles Epidemic

    But there’s an even darker side to this picture: shingles. Shingles is a far more serious condition. At a minimum, it causes a rash along the path that a nerve root serves, along with severe pain that lasts for around a month. Mercola reports that it can also lead to “bacterial skin infections, Hutchinson’s sign, Ramsay Hunt Syndrome, motor neuropathy, meningitis, hearing loss, blindness, and bladder impairment”[1].

    Now shingles is increasing. Worse, we’re seeing children get it. Though it’s still rare in them, the fact is that children virtually never suffered from shingles until the chicken pox vaccine was implemented.

    But why would shingles be increasing, with even children succumbing, when there’s a chicken pox vaccine? It turns out, as documented by the statistical analysis of Gary S. Goldman[3], that exposure to children with chicken pox boosts one’s immunity to shingles.The mechanism isn’t known, but the protection is real.

    The UK’s Public Health Laboratory Service has found that adults who live with children and are exposed to chicken pox as a result receive protection against shingles[4]. In other words, exposure to active cases of chicken pox results in a boost to the immune system’s ability to prevent shingles attacks.

    Now that children are getting chicken pox less often, the adults in their lives are unlikely to come into contact with active chicken pox. The result is more and more shingles, with all the pain and adverse effects entailed.

    Risks of Chicken Pox Vaccine

    Chicken pox and shingles vaccines carry serious risks. As Dr. Mercola points out[1], between March 1995 and July 1998, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) reported 6.574 adverse events associated with chicken pox. That’s about 1 adverse event for every 1.481 vaccinations.

    About 4% of those reports resulted in severe adverse effects, including ”shock, encephalitis (brain inflammation), and thrombocytopenia (a blood disorder)”[1]. 14 deaths were reported.

    In all likelihood, at most only 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines are reported to VAERS. That brings the total number of deaths from the vaccine to a more probable 140 in a little over four years, which approaches the number of child deaths attributed to chicken pox prior to vaccination.

    When you also factor in the fact that many vaccinated children and adults still get chicken pox, it becomes apparent that the vaccine is providing little or no benefit. It may even be resulting in more deaths, not fewer.

    Read more:
    http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2013-02-18/shingles-goes-epidemic-chicken-pox-vax-to-blame/

    Why a Shingles Epidemic is Bolting Straight at the U.S. Chickenpox is Nature’s Way of Protecting You from Shingles, Vaccine Protection is Only Temporary
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

    Risk Of Viral Reactivation With Shingles Vaccine, (Did the CDC inform you of this yet, no?)
    http://www.vaccineinjuryhelpcenter.com/shingles-vaccine/

    NVIC Challenges VAERS Data of Chickenpox Vaccine Adverse Events
    http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/pressrelease/pressrelease9132000.aspx

    Why a Shingles Epidemic is Bolting Straight at the U.S.
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

    Chickenpox Vaccine Protection Fails; Booster Needed
    http://vaccineawakening.blogspot.com/2007/03/chickenpox-vaccine-protection-fails.html

    New Study Backs Up Evidence Chicken Pox Vaccine Causing Epidemic of Shingles
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/new-study-backs-up-evidence-chicken-pox-vaccine-causing-epidemic-of-shingles/

    Hautarzt. 2013 Feb;64(2):107-9. doi: 10.1007/s00105-012-2477-x.
    [Herpes zoster after varicella-zoster vaccination].
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358727

  • Your talk is so cheap, and with any evidence here but that which involves only your own obvious dismal failure.

  • So you insist here on only believing a fellow vaccine shill. And you insist that there is no obvious level of bias involved in that. Thanks for your diligent and so honest effort to clear that up.

  • Well Mr Polak, no one is ever beaten, and just because in your distorted and delusional state of existence, you simply lie about it in claiming that they have been.

  • Re-arguing over and over the meaning and definition of words and terms, is again the first sign of an argument loser that has nothing left to stand on. You again and again and without any merit, continue to argue just to argue.

  • And again, you have never pointed out any obvious facts since the first time you ever reply posted on this site. The real flaws are found only in your own irrational and twisted dishonesty.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So you can’t define logic Lowell?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well perhaps they’re only not obvious to you. However to most people I expect that someone saying “Nobody cares about what you have to say” implies that you care sufficiently to point that out.

  • If I were you I would first determine how and where the term mindless applies to your own posts. And the only thing that is repeatedly streaming here is the endlessly twisted drivel from own worthless posts.

  • Logic? Sounds like a bunch of FSTIIICDBDTSPFD drivel.

  • Everyone here can see and read exactly what is on that page, and that you are obviously lying. You clearly know that you have no answers. Wake up.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    The point being is that, as others have noted. It takes very little to no mind to produce behavior indistinguishable from yours. You would be a low bar for the Turing Test.

  • Jonathan Graham

    What I said was a better description. Sorry. :-)

  • What part of this is not does not form a cogent argument for you? What part of this is not phrased as a formal argument? And continue to use the false excuse that can not understand it, and that nobody else here can explain it to you. That pretty much good evidence that the real problem, is actually with you! And how much more blatantly and repeatedly lying, and clearly foolish do you desire to continue to make your self look, here?

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    Everyone here can see and read exactly what is on that page,

    I can “see and read” voynich manuscript in a specific sense. However I couldn’t explain it to you because I don’t understand it. Same goes for just about everyone here who has claimed they understand what your argument is. They act virtually indistinguishably from people who don’t understand.

  • Jesus baby

    Ah, more Hubbsian link-spam! If you want a reply to it, just pick out one of those links and explain your argument in your own words. You won’t.

  • Jonathan Graham

    What part of this is not does not form a cogent argument for you?

    Too many things to list. One of which is that I don’t know what your assumptions are. You claim you have none or something. Which is demonstrably impossible in the sense that I’m using the term (which is the sense used in virtually all formal argumentation).

  • And of course not all of the posts you make are just deliberately antagonizing, but a majority of them clearly are. There is absolutely nothing you won’t repeatedly deny.

  • So you can’t explain the point of your said, and falsely antagonizing question. Thanks for confirming that.

  • So you need only a drinking buddy? And your point is?

  • The point of saying “thanks” was to express appreciation or gratitude. That’s usually why people say “thanks,” isn’t it? Is it different in your family?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry there is simply no reason for you to be hostile.

  • Just more of the same false, and worn out excuses; and as well just another repeated expose as to how twisted your mind actually is.

  • Mike Stevens

    Only in Hubbs-world is an outbreak of chickenpox in 0.0001% of the vaccinated population (as opposed to 100% of the unvaccinated population) considered a vaccination failure.

    Quacks like Mercola told him so.

  • Jonathan Graham

    When I’ve provided specific and clear descriptions. All you can respond with are vague assertions.

  • Oh! My mistake, I thought you were asking why I said “thanks.” I asked you what’s one plus one because I wanted to watch your characteristic squirming, ranting, and evasion every time a direct question is put to you. It’s satisfying to watch you confirm what a delusional, paranoid, arrogant little kook you are.

  • I made no such claim; and your post only provides evidence for your own deliberate ignorance.

  • You have it backwards, as the information is obviously self explanatory, and it is your job to refute it directly with your argument, and in your own words. Obviously you have none.

  • Yeah, there is. The truth shows that he’s wrong, so he can’t calm down and rely on facts or honesty that he doesn’t have. By continuously attacking, he tries to distract from the fact that he’s wrong. If he can trick you into defending, he’s got you distracted. He can’t defeat the truth, so he desperately attempts to keep it off balance.

  • Jesus baby

    Why would I debate a link with you if you can’t show you even understand what it’s saying? Just pick your favorite one and tell us what it says in your own words.

  • And you base that claim on what article, and what study?

  • Jesus baby

    He advertises for Mercola sunscreen products so he has to tow the party line ya know.

  • The informational expose I posted is not about me personally, but the reference information in itself that was posted. Again, if you have a counter claim on any of that information, then present it. Again, you can do it so you immediately go into full on denial, and personal attack mode. It is the same and repeated outcome for you vaccine shills, time after time.

  • Jesus baby

    Why do you want me to tell you my point Lowell?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yep. It’s sufficiently organized that I sometimes wonder if it’s deliberate.

    I don’t know of nworder is still around but I found it interesting that he had a FORM OF AFFECTED SPEECH WHEN POSTING ABOUT HIS ANTIVAX TROPES, but when I got him talking about something he thought he knew about – linear regression – he suddenly switched to typing like everyone else.

    Which makes me think it took effort to type oddly. Which is kind of strange – perhaps there are people who are trying to mask their identities this way. That in turn makes me wonder as to the reason.

    There are also people who type using a lot of non-US English slang. Which I find bizarre and something significantly outside my expectation. Written and spoken forms of language have been separate things for centuries. My parents don’t write letters they way they talk. Mike and OIOT are both from the UK and don’t go around posting “Take a shufti at this!”. Again it makes me wonder if I’m seeing a person or a role.

  • And that sure made a lot of sense. When the issue of the benefit or not of sunscreens is brought up and questioned on vactruth, 6 articles ago, and if I stated that Mercola has the best example of non-toxic sunscreen products; I automatically become branded as an advertising salesman. How desperate to create false discreditation here, do you look?

  • Because you obviously have no point, and to point that out to you.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re just hiding behind a wall of copy/paste Lowell. You think it impresses people or something I guess. But if you look at copy/paste #14/32, for example, which is a Huffpo article about a chickenpox outbreak 5 years ago in Indiana, they discuss comments from a doctor at the Indiana State Dept of Health:

    “Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was unvaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time.”
    Why did you copy/paste that article, Lowell? How does that advance the anti-vaxxer agenda?

  • Jesus baby

    Well no one else was posting Mercola sunscreen advertisements, Lowell. Just you. You shill. And hypocrite!

  • Jesus baby

    I think you just want something to run to Jeffry with.

  • Your post is pointless, and only you hide, and behind a wall of false vaccine propaganda. That link is fully relevant and as well to show the contrast in the data between what we are told by the falsely assumed vaccine authorities, and verses what really takes place. If that is the best you can do, that is a really poor showing, and as always.

  • I see your desperate attempt to falsely accuse; and as to your attempt to create more of your sick and baseless false discreditation. That is what I directly see.

  • And I see that your again juvenile level of personally attacking desperation continues; and with as well added falsely accused and unsubstantiated, name calling.

  • Jesus baby

    What contrast in data Lowell? What vaccine authorities?

  • Jesus baby

    Again, Lowell, “false discredtation(sic)” doesn’t make sense.

  • Jesus baby

    You call people shills here constantly, Lowell, so I guess you’re calling yourself juvenile and desperate.

  • Polak

    Your welcome

  • Polak

    You are the dismal failure here.

  • Polak

    The only person that is delusional here Mr Hubbs is you.

  • Mike Stevens

    The 84 cases in Indiana you cited.

  • Mike Stevens

    ‘You dare be critical of a company that conducts research’

    Sound familiar, Hubbs? That was what Ron claimed.

  • kfunk937

    I’ve been reading without comment, until I tripped over this gem:

    the fact that the earth and the world rotate in a circle

    I have to ask about your phrasing. Is there a difference between “the earth and the world”? If so, to what two planets do you refer? Also, does your circular rotation account for axial precession and wobble? Finally, does expertise in astronomy confer special knowledge relevant to vaccines? How does that work?

  • kfunk937

    “This video has been removed by the user.”

    It must have been a doozy.

  • Throwing the ignorance card and playing stupid, won’t help you.

  • Oh, now that claim make a lot of sense, didn’t it. And you just keep on showing and proving my point.

  • Jesus baby

    I knew he’d take it down, but there are many more to enjoy:)

  • Jesus baby

    Thanks for proving my point. You’re just talking out of your a$$.

  • Jesus baby

    How’s your little shill investigation going, Lowell?

  • Here again is your post, so called Stevens.

    Mike Stevens Jesus baby • 12 hours ago
    Only in Hubbs-world is an outbreak of chickenpox in 0.0001% of the vaccinated population (as opposed to 100% of the unvaccinated population) considered a vaccination failure.

    Quacks like Mercola told him so.

    6 • Reply•Share ›

    And six other known vaccine shills put a like on that post.

    Vigo County of Indiana reported a Chicken Pox outbreak, with at a total of least 92 cases. Of the total of 92 cases; it was stated that only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. Now, how do you not find that to be not significant? As well your twisted assessment here above ignores the reality of the actual situation, but as well the vaccine risks, and also the increased incidence of shingles in older individuals, created by reduced circulation of the varicella pathogen. You as well ignored all of the cost verses benefit data that was put forth by the Goldman studies, etc. So in other words, you really do not want to be or to get honest about this issue at all, now do you?

    As well none of this particular information involved Dr Mercola, and in regard to that, I have as well outlined an informational challenge for you, below.

    As for the said Huffington Post article, stating that

    Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was un-vaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time. It can also occur in a less-severe form in children who have been properly vaccinated, Duwve noted.

    [My note LH; In every case they attempt to falsely blame the un-vaccinated, and regardless of how obvious the evidence of existing vaccine failure, actually is. They can not actually show or prove the source of the original ground zero person so called causing the outbreak. They never determined of provided evidence for that at Disney Land, either; but still the un-vacinated were again blamed.]

    Indiana chickenpox outbreak largest in US, official says

    TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – The chief medical officer of the Indiana State Department of Health says western Indiana’s Vigo County is experiencing the largest known current outbreak of chickenpox in the U.S.

    Dr. Joan Duwve (DUH’-vee) told the Terre Haute Tribune-Star for a story this week that Vigo County usually has fewer than 10 cases per year but had had 84 since September. The Vigo County health Department has scaled back the number of cases after reporting more than 100 cases earlier in the week.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/23/indiana-chickenpox-outbreak-largest-in-us-official-says.html

    Health Impact News

    Vigo County of Indiana is currently experiencing the country’s largest outbreak of Chicken Pox, with 92 cases so far. Out of these 92 cases, only 3 were never vaccinated. That means this may be the nation’s first case of a serious Chicken Pox outbreak among children who were actually vaccinated for Chicken Pox. The Indiana Coalition for Vaccination Choice reports on their Facebook page:

    Placed another call to the Indiana State Department of Health. Was able to reach the epidemiologist working the chicken pox outbreak. There are a total of 92 cases so far. Only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. They are seeing fewer lesions in the fully vaccinated. Zero deaths. Possibly one hospitalization but not sure off the top of their head. Zero complications from chicken pox. We were told that only one chicken pox vaccine was supposed to provide lifelong immunity but this did not turn out to be the case. A booster was added and yet we are seeing a very high rate of fully vaccinated children contracting chicken pox. We asked if another booster will be mandated and told possibly. We asked about vaccine failures and were told this is not vaccine failure because the severity of lesions in the fully vaccinated was less than if never vaccinated and that no vaccine is 100% effective. We were told that if vaccines save one life they are worth it. We asked how many children died from chicken pox before the vaccine. This epidemiologist was unsure.

    https://healthimpactnews.com/2012/serious-chicken-pox-outbreak-in-indiana-is-among-vaccinated-children/

    There are the kind of articles that Dr Mercola produces. I would challenge you so called Mike Stevens, to show and explain directly an errors that you find in these articles??? I would cahllenge you to do that instead of just talking again and again you false discreditation bullshit, and that you can not ever verify, or back up.

    Despite Doctor’s Order, School Bans Girl for Not Getting Chickenpox Vaccine
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/23/chickenpox-vaccine.aspx

    Chickenpox (Varicella) Vaccine: This Is Why a Shingles Epidemic Is Bolting Straight at the U.S.
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

  • Why? You getting worried?

  • It is obvious that your point was never proven. If you can’t see as much as that the CDC data is often entirely different, watered down, and missing key information that tells the real story of what has really gone on with illness outbreaks in the vaccinated, then you aren’t looking. But of course your goal here has never been to directly address any vaccine issues, but to just provide the posted static and background noise for further levels of disruption and distraction, childish harassment, badgering, lying, and only more juvenile levels of deliberately antagonizing anyone making an honest and diligent effort to address the real issues regarding vaccine safety, and efficacy. Now that is what I would call, actually just talking out of your a$$.

  • Regarding the level of twisted stupidity, and the irrelevance contained in your post.

    Disputing and arguing only about the definition and the meaning of basic words and terms, is the first sign of a loser as to any argument and/or debate.

  • Jesus baby

    It’s not going well I take it.

  • kfunk937

    Your reply is par for the course, Lowell. Thanks for living down to my expectations.

  • AutismDadd

    Now we’re getting somewhere Grasshopper

  • You are still attempting to argue an irrelevant point. Again, it really does not matter who conducted the research and the studies that went into that informational article page. When you have nothing left to stand on you simply attempt to continue to personally ridicule anyone within striking distance, and again regardless of how irrelevant your accusations are. You argue just to continue arguing and regardless of how pointless it is; and as well in stubbornly refusing to be wrong.

    This was the article.I posted.

    Spinal Cord Disease – Medical Marijuana Research Overview
    http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/spinal-cord-disease-medical-marijuana-research/

  • AutismDadd

    Anyway you can list.

  • AutismDadd

    Well then its not pretty awesome, because I’m not irate. But that quote shows that you hope that’s what you can accomplish by antagonizing , harassing and bullying other posters.

  • AutismDadd

    Wrong. Its you who can’t accept others as significant with your swollen head up your rear end

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn

  • AutismDadd

    Double talk….as usual

  • Jesus baby

    The real story: You copy/pasted the article because it described an outbreak of a VPD, and in your tiny mind any outbreak of a VPD is evidence vaccines don’t work – even when the outbreak starts in an unvaccinated child.
    You should be banned from this site for being the worst anti-vaxxer in the world.

  • AutismDadd

    Nope, you just can’t admit what vaccines do and don’t care because your children haven’t been victimized.

  • Of course you are hoping for that. I haven’t had any updates lately, but sooner or later I will get that. How many of you shills is so called David, funding here? Come on, lets see posted here another juvenile, and bratty child mentality level reply, posted by …Jesus …baby; and who doesn’t have the courage to use any form of a real identity?

  • Jesus baby

    Lowell takes everything to seriously:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqi0CXvq3E

  • Mike Stevens

    There are 1,800,000 children in Indiana.
    If none were vaccinated, then all 1,800,000 would get chickenpox in an epidemic.

    There has been a small outbreak, and 79 cases who were fully vaccinated developed chickenpox, as opposed to the 1,800,000 who would have developed it if all kids had been unvaccinated.

    I take it you do agree chickenpox is an infection, Lowell, and it will spread rapidly within a vulnerable/non-immune population?

  • Jesus baby

    You haven’t had any updates lately?

  • AutismDadd

    How many adverse events from those 180,000 being vaccinated? Who compensates them?

  • AutismDadd

    And other than trumpeting those percentages, how is it proven?

  • AutismDadd

    Where Mike? Are you talking about 3rd world conditions again?

  • AutismDadd

    Readers need to remember Vaccine makers were being litigated out of business because their faulty, fraudulent products were harming children. Government stepped in because it wants the quick fix that would be more cost effective. Cost effective includes the setting up of VAERS ( Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) and the NVICP (National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program). So what did government actually do? Well they chose vaccine injury over improved product. It lies and corrupts the science and truth. It claims to offer compensation, but still allows the injuries to occurs. It then denies 2 of 3 cases. Its vaccine proponents who make the rules and it they who tell parents what injuries they will admit and compensate for. So what has changed? Not much.

  • AutismDadd

    Learn how to spell stooge.

  • AutismDadd

    Pardon? Chicken Pox Vaccine works 90% of the time? Prove that. Who has ever proven it? Is it the old antibodies trick?

  • AutismDadd

    Its all Jesus B has. Oh and a full diaper of evidence.

  • sabelmouse

    and in the end it’s the vaccinated themselves who pay the compensation through tax.

  • It is very true that the federal vaccine court had denied compensation to approximately 2 out of 3 vaccine injury cases, and the evidence for that is right here. Oh, and so there nothing corrupt about this system to see here, folks.

    Since 1988, over 17,732 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27- year time period, 15,312 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,143 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,169 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.5 billion.

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/statisticsreport.pdf

    Many of those said federal court decisions made, as well have been largely based on approximately 14 to 16 known existing epidemiological, (population based studies).

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    What did they actually study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly cooked and bought for the results, period. Found in this well done analysis were the use of flawed study designs, the use of unreliable data, the use of predetermined outcomes, unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources. None of those studies were independently done and/or supervised in any way by sources without an existing level of bias, and conflict of interest.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    14 Studies
    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

    To take it one step further, this expose right here takes you far deeper into the vaccine safety, and the existing vaccine safety study issues.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • AutismDadd

    Doesn’t answer Web Watcher’s questions. Nice job deflecting Pharm Boy

  • Its being handled.

  • AutismDadd

    True. And with protection from litigation there’s no need for high end safety studies. They can get that from VAERS and NVICP, although not in accurate numbers. But then have they ever cared about accuracy?

  • Jesus baby

    Here ya go A-dad, not that you’ll read it or understand it if you did:

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S82.long
    You’re just a troll.

  • AutismDadd

    Yep, even death as a side effect doesn’t stop FDA Approval.

  • AutismDadd

    Can you explain anything?

  • AutismDadd

    Needs a bigger response and an overhaul of many systems.

  • Jesus baby

    I wrote it so the knuckle-dragging anti-vaxxers could understand. A-dad! What’s that noise?! I think the little black helicopters are coming for you!

  • AutismDadd

    And no information or statements about vaccine are completely lie free.

  • Which article, there are many of them that I have posted? You sure do not follow the trail of information and evidence, very well. Maybe you should catch up the reply posts and realize that your claims have already been destroyed. And by the way, I re-edited that long post at the top so that it has plenty of input made my me. You know as to your deflection away from information, and as to your demands that I explain it all in my own words. Its a bulwark of information, fool. You ignored every bit of it.

  • I’m not trying to answer all of them, I’m pointing out that one of them is based on a false premise.

  • Jesus baby

    I’m sure you have your best people on it, Lowell.

  • AutismDadd

    Trash Science as usual. Its so much more than double talk, its worthless. To claim that if someone doesn’t get sick it must be the vaccine working, coming from the CDC? What a hoot. They don’t prove anything, and talk of possibilities and make statements that suggest things. Speculation and not proof of percentage, just their opinions on it.

  • AutismDadd

    So what?

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. Your Mom is calling you up from the basement so she can feed and dress you.

  • Jesus baby

    Which article lol. The one we’re talking about – the HuffPo article, Lowell.

  • So, it’s better to know the truth than lies.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re a troll.

  • AutismDadd

    I’ve read both. Maybe its both, but as usual its shady, and unclear. Other things are clear though, that Vaccine Makers get off easy. Would you agree to pay .75 cents so your $360.00 shot of HPV vaccine is protected from litigation?

  • AutismDadd

    You think print is talking? Buh Wah Ha Ha…

  • Jesus baby

    “To claim that if someone doesn’t get sick it must be the vaccine working…”

    “Is it the old antibodies trick?”

    Is there a THIRD way, A-dad? Like with crystals or something? Please enlighten us! And make up your mind you troll.

  • sabelmouse

    certainly not.

  • Typical vaccine shill, your disregard the posted reply and information in front of you, and revert to issues in foreign and undeveloped countries. And oohh, its the scary and now so fear mongered about illness referred to as the human DISEASE, known as chicken pox.

    Let me as well ask you what happens when and after a vaccinated child’s antibody level of so called vaccine derived immunity to varicella, wanes and disappears; and obviously that will happen eventually? What happens if they get chicken pox at an older age? Isn’t that considered much often more serious? And to prevent for example a 24 year old pregnant woman form acquiring chicken pox; will they need to be providing injected boosters long into the adult years? If you say there is no risk in not acquiring natural immunity to varicella, then how do you explain that claim?

    Again, if you had any level of diligence and honesty within you-you would have as well seen all the issues regarding the harm of that vaccine, and as well its direct relationship with increased cases of adult shingles. Did you as well read the Goldman studies? Oh course not, because real facts and data never mean anything to any trolling vaccine shill. I might as well mention here as well that none of them have existing any real identity, and regardless of using a character name, or an assumed human name.

  • In your posted Oxford Journal abstract it states this being said, and which is obviously an incorrect claim.

    Excerpt, from your said study abstract:

    [One dose of varicella vaccine was 84.5% effective (median; range, 44%–100%) in preventing all varicella and 100% effective (mean and median) in preventing severe varicella. When administered after exposure, varicella vaccine was highly effective in preventing or modifying varicella. Although 1 dose of varicella vaccine has provided excellent protection, a higher degree of effectiveness is needed in order to interrupt transmission and to prevent outbreaks in settings with high contact rates. Monitoring the effectiveness of the newly recommended 2-dose childhood vaccine schedule for varicella vaccine is a priority.]

    Did you not see and read the earlier counter study information I posted? Here is a study from the same said Oxford Journal and which entirely contradicts the abstract you just posted. I think you better wake up, or just quit your job as a shill. This is what happens when you actually attempt to address directly the vaccine issues. You were better off just continuing to smart mouth your replies and with nothing of actual substance in them. “LOL”

    Primary Vaccine Failure after 1 Dose of Varicella Vaccine in Healthy Children

    Abstract

    Universal immunization of young children with 1 dose of varicella vaccine was recommended in the United States in 1995, and it has significantly decreased the incidence of chickenpox. Outbreaks of varicella, however, are reported among vaccinated children. Although vaccine effectiveness has usually been 85%, rates as low as 44% have been observed. Whether this is from primary or secondary vaccine failure—or both—is unclear. We tested serum samples from 148 healthy children immunized against varicella in New York, Tennessee, and California to determine their seroconversion rates, before and after 1 dose of Merck/Oka varicella vaccine. The median age at vaccination was 12.5 months; postvaccination serum samples were obtained on average 4 months later. Serum was tested for antibodies against varicella-zoster virus (VZV) by use of the previously validated sensitive and specific fluorescent antibody to membrane antigen (FAMA) assay. Of 148 healthy child vaccinees, 113 (76%) seroconverted, and 24% had no detectable VZV FAMA antibodies. Our data contrast with reported seroconversion rates of 86%–96% by other VZV antibody tests and suggest that many cases of varicella in immunized children are due to primary vaccine failure. A second dose of varicella vaccine is expected to increase seroconversion rates and vaccine effectiveness.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/7/944.full

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2013 Jul
    Primary versus secondary failure after varicella vaccination: implications for interval between 2 doses.

    Abstract
    BACKGROUND:
    Two-dose varicella vaccination is recommended for optimal control of varicella in populations with high (>90%) 1-dose coverage. Optimal timing of the second dose may depend on whether breakthrough varicella results from primary vaccine failure (no protective immunity after vaccination) or secondary vaccine failure (waning protective immunity).

    METHODS:
    Published literature (1995 to 2012) on vaccine failure after varicella vaccination cited in PubMed and other online sources was reviewed.

    RESULTS:
    Nineteen publications detailed 21 varicella outbreaks with breakthrough varicella rates ranging from 0% to 42%; the publications showed no consistent trend between breakthrough varicella rate and time since vaccination.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Literature to date indicates a relatively high rate of primary vaccine failure and limited evidence of secondary vaccine failure among 1-dose varicella vaccine recipients, suggesting that a short interval between 2 doses might be preferable in countries considering implementation of universal varicella vaccination to reduce breakthrough varicella. However, any potential disruption to well-established vaccination schedules should be considered.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23838789

    Chicken pox vaccine has high rate of primary vaccine failure – Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal
    http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/chicken-pox-vaccine-has-high-rate-of-primary-vaccine-failure-pediatric-infectious-disease-journal/#.UTc9-xzIOWb

  • You wouldn’t want to know or meet them; trust me.

  • A troll is only someone that is posting and that as well has a major conflict of interest financially, or other direct conflict of interest such as regarding a direct association with employment in the so called medical or vaccine field, or otherwise as well in regard to just being funded and paid off to post the BS that they do on article sites like this one. Obviously you are not intelligent enough to comprehend and to understand these things.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No different from where we were.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Please provide a specific example.

  • Jonathan Graham

    because I’m not irate

    Whatever you need to tell yourself.

    But that quote shows that you hope that’s what you can accomplish

    No, it shows that I consider your temper tantrums as evidence that you’re losing the argument

    antagonizing , harassing and bullying other posters.

    Your need to pretend that I’ve done any of these things kind of also shows how much you’ve lost the argument.

  • Your juvenile level of expectations were that I was going to fall for your twisted paragraph, and attempt to respond to such trash. That didn’t happen. It actually is par for the course that I am much smarter than people like you are; and that is just to bad if your incorrect expectations were flushed down the toilet.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again it’s simply true. You admit you can’t provide examples. Which sadly does mean that the evidence is against your position.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nice attempt to deflect. You have yet to admit how the vast majority of our conversation dynamic is you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not if you know how to read. I said that I was pointing out what is apparently true. You claimed I was wrong. I claimed that I wasn’t wrong but correct. You seemed confused over the use of the terms “correct” and “apparently true”. I clarified how these two terms were being used.

  • Jonathan Graham

    In the same way I can’t “admit” that space aliens are putting implants in people. The evidence for this hypothesis is exceptionally poor. Strongly believing something with exceptionally poor evidence is the definition of being gullible. Sorry.

  • Careful! He’s obviously much smarter than you!! 😂

  • No, that article alone is not specifically posted in the above reply posts that are attached to this particular discus notifications thread. There has been more than enough article and study evidence provided here to show that the actual efficacy of the varicella vaccine is indeed questionable. There exists as well sufficient evidence of the significant outbreaks that have occurred in the fully vaccinated. Furthermore obviously that is not the only vaccine with a seriously questionable efficacy history.

    The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine (with a long list of outbreaks that have occurred in largely the vaccinated)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine.html

    Failure Of The Continued Polio Vaccine Campaign, (a look as well at the real historical record as to the polio vaccine)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/failure-of-the-continued-polio-vaccine-campaign.html

    Ep 60- Mysterious Polio-like Illness Solved! [My Incredible Opinion]
    by Forrest Maready
    Published on Nov 4, 2016
    The cause of the mysterious polio-like illness going around the Western parts of the United States has been solved. But not by me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKNVyjgQyjY

    Acute Flaccid Myelitis and Routine Childhood Vaccinations: This is Nothing New
    http://vaxtruth.org/2016/11/acute-flaccid-myelitis-and-routine-childhood-vaccinations-this-is-nothing-new/

    Study: Polio vaccine campaign in India has caused 12-fold increase in deadly paralysis condition
    http://www.naturalnews.com/035588_polio_vaccine_India_paralysis.html

    Some Facts About Polio That The CDC Wishes You Didn’t Know
    http://www.march-against-monsanto.com/some-facts-about-polio-that-the-cdc-wishes-you-didnt-know/

    The Polio Vaccine Doesn’t Stop Polio
    https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2016/03/04/the-polio-vaccine-doesnt-stop-polio/

    Doctors Change Names of Diseases When Vaccines Do Not Work
    http://vactruth.com/2012/04/25/change-names-of-diseases/

    7 Trivia Facts About Polio
    https://vactruth.com/2012/06/03/7-trivia-facts-about-polio/

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well within the definition of term.

  • David W

    I’ve got some calls to make.

  • AutismDadd

    Just part of the con right? .75 bloody cents that protects them from millions of dollars in fines and compensation. I’d take that deal.

  • AutismDadd

    Real immunity involves more than antibodies, and vaccines promote antibodies that wouldn’t develop if not by chemical stimulation with toxic aluminum. But the result is also a skewed system that again doesn’t perform normally. The blueprint is changed, and that blueprint doesn’t come in a vial. But your contention that a vaccine is 90% efficient is based on opinion, not concrete evidence.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re right Lowell. It looks like 1 dose of Varicella vaccine isn’t enough. Maybe children should get 2? Oh wait…

  • AutismDadd

    I’ll need a link to the science Junior

  • AutismDadd

    Typical. And maybe 3 or 4 or 5

  • Jesus baby

    THEM? There’s more than one? How intriguing! Why do you say I wouldn’t want to “know or meet” them, Lowell? Are they dangerous types?

  • AutismDadd

    Yea the NEWLY Recommended as they keep experimenting.

  • AutismDadd

    You’d have to empty your diaper first.

  • Jesus baby

    No Lowell, a troll is someone like A-dad who contributes nothing but insults online. I don’t consider you a troll BTW. In your childlike way you try to contribute useful information.

  • Jesus baby

    So do you or don’t you want to talk about the HuffPo article? You’re confusing me. My question was why would an anti-vaxxer copy/paste an article about a chicken pox outbreak started by an unvaccinated kid, that also states vaccination is 90% effective, unless he can’t understand the issue.

  • AutismDadd

    Oh OK Mr Definition. Nice twist to make printing and talking equally the same. Kind of makes you sound like a clown, but you seem to prefer sounding like one.

  • kfunk937

    I know. Scary, innit? I’m so tempted to ask him about how magnets and the tide work. Maybe I should anticipate his replies and just channel Hubbs default to Insane Clowns quotes:

    Water, fire, air and dirt.
    Fvckin’ magnets, how do they work?
    And I don’t wanna talk to a scientist.
    Y’all motherfvckers lyin’, and gettin’ me pissed.

    ;D

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nice twist to make printing and talking equally the same

    More correctly I’m saying that the term “talking” can reference what you and I are doing here. If I was being as silly or sillier as you are being I’d point out that the most common use of the verb “printing” doesn’t describe what you are doing when posting here.

    So I’m not twisting anything. Even Lowell says just below:

    You already know very well what I am talking about.

    Are you claiming that Lowell was actually using audible speech?

  • Mike Stevens

    “Typical vaccine shill, your disregard the posted reply and information in front of you, and revert to issues in foreign and undeveloped countries.”

    I said INDIANA, Lowell, not India.
    ….God save us from idiots who indeed cannot read information in front of them….

    Indiana was where the chickenpox outbreak was that you mentioned, and I filled you in with some facts about it.
    Sheesh!

  • Childlike way, really? How about if just quit simply copying what is in my posts. You look beyond pathetic. You never did have the ability to produce anything original and which actually had some truth and merit to it. The difference between what you and AutismDadd post is that what he posts is actually true, and what you post is nothing but merit-less and falsely antagonizing, fiction.

    When I read this I found that it could not describe you more perfectly, and several of the other vaccine trolling shills that post here.

    Internet Troll

    In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll’s amusement.

    This sense of both the noun and the verb troll is associated with Internet discourse, but also has been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, the mass media have used troll to mean “a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families.”

    Read more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

  • If vaccines actually eradicated illnesses; we would have as well seen by now and in all the years since the development of a vaccine, the eradicated end of pertussis and measles. No such thing is the case.

    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine.html

    Millions of adults have as well never been re-vaccinated since childhood. Vaccine derived antibodies wane over years time, and without any doubt millions of people are without any so called vaccine derived protection. Where is their so called vaccine derived herd immunity? It obviously does not exist. So why is not small pox, polio, diphtheria, and measles running rampant within the adult population. I can tell you why; because vaccines never actually eradicated, anything. It is all a misleading lie, and false credit taken.

    You know as well that in the pro-vaccine world, correlation always equals causation, until they start looking at the issue of vaccine caused injuries and the resulting deaths. Then suddenly no amount of correlation has and ever will ever equal causation; and all is denied.

  • Ok, I admit to the mistake, and there are a lot of replies here to deal with; so you really don’t need or have go off the personal hate filled, and half crazed deep end, over one mistake. That just shows your own lack of any adult level of actually grounded, mentality.

    I have now removed that sentence from what I previously posted, and the rest of that which I posted remains entirely accurate, and directly on point.

    So what about the facts that I just filled you in with? And why have you failed to respond to the remainder of my post? You obviously can’t do it, that is why. “Sheesh”!

  • Jesus baby

    Yeah, we don’t need all those stupid antibodies.

  • Find out.

  • Wow, are you stupid. Why do you keep on posting? Oh, that’s right, the sick payroll funder and the middle man, wants you to.

  • so you really don’t need or have go off the personal hate filled, and half crazed deep end

    This, from Lowell “Everybody Who Disagrees With Me Is A Foolish, Sick, Twisted, Insane, Irrelevant, Ignorant, Crazy, Delusional, Beyond Dumb, Trolling Shill Spreading False Discreditation” Hubbs? My God! I hope you can get over having your feewings hurt!! Should I call an ambulance??

    😀😁😂😃😄😅😆

  • Jesus baby

    And I’ll need bout tree fitty

  • Jesus baby

    No it’s just one and then later one more but I know it ain’t natureal an it come from da guvment

  • Is your name, Mike Stevens? So why is it necessary to post your obviously twisted stupidity, to cover for him? Are you afraid that he can’t answer?

  • Jesus baby

    Go away troll

  • Ron Roy

    A 2002 CDC study reported that the chicken pox vaccine was only 44
    percent effective against the disease. Because of breakthrough of
    chicken pox in children vaccinated, a booster shot was recommended for
    all children ages 4-6.
    There are two live virus vaccines for chickenpox licensed in the U.S.: Varivax and ProQuad (MMRV) manufactured by Merck;
    The CDC recommends children get a chickenpox shot at 12 months old and a booster dose between 4 and 6 years old;
    Reported complications from chickenpox vaccine include shock,
    seizures, brain inflammation (encephalitis), thrombocytopenia (blood
    disorder), Guillian Barre syndrome, death and infection with vaccine
    strain chickenpox or transmission of vaccine strain chickenpox to
    others;
    Chickenpox vaccine effectiveness is reported to be 44 percent
    for any form of the disease and 86 percent for moderate to severe
    disease;
    Mass use of chickenpox vaccine by children in the U.S. has
    removed natural boosting of immunity in the population, which was
    protective against shingles, and now adults are experiencing a shingles
    epidemic;
    In 2006, the CDC recommended a booster dose of chickenpox
    vaccine for all children and a shingles vaccine was licensed and
    recommended for all adults over age 60.
    As of September 1, 2015, there had been 122 claims filed in the
    federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) for injuries and
    deaths following chickenpox or varicella vaccination, including 8 deaths
    and 114 serious injuries.
    Using the MedAlerts search engine, as of September 30, 2015 there had been 3,358
    serious adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting
    System (VAERS) in connection with chickenpox and varicella-containing
    vaccines since 1990. Over half of those serious chickenpox
    vaccine-related adverse events occurring in children six years old and
    under. Of these chickenpox-vaccine related adverse event reports to
    VAERS, 161 were deaths, with over 60% of the deaths occurring in children under six years of age.
    http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx

  • Whatever you say, dumbass. Got any more keywords you need to spit out so you don’t have to dust off your brain?

  • Jesus baby

    Yes that describes A-dad perfectly.

  • Jesus baby

    Oh they sound terrifying Lowell. Why don’t you ask them? Or are you still waiting on that update?

  • Jesus baby

    You didn’t know the recommended childhood vaccination schedule includes 2 doses for chicken pox did you? Like I say you’re the worst anti-vaxxer in the world (and the earth).

  • Again.

    Largest Chickenpox Outbreak In The U.S. Hits Vigo County In Indiana, (84 cases)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/chickenpox-outbreak-largest-vigo-county-indiana_n_2199231.html

    As for the above Huffington Post article, it as well stating this.

    [Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was un-vaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time. It can also occur in a less-severe form in children who have been properly vaccinated, Duwve noted.]

    n every case they attempt to falsely blame the un-vaccinated, and regardless of how obvious the evidence of existing vaccine failure, actually is. They can not actually show or prove the source of the original ground zero person so called causing the outbreak. They never determined of provided evidence for that at Disney Land, either; but still the un-vaccinated were again blamed without any existing merit to the accusation.

    See how they spin it ALL??? The NEVER admit to the efficacy failure of ANY vaccine, nor any harm done; not even in regard to Gardasil. We have the same going on with the Pertussis vaccine, and covering up the failure, and with the same spin-only worse! There as well have been similar measles vaccine failures in the vaccinated. More doses and more boosters needed.

    And in regard to your claim that the varicella vaccine is 90% effective, that claim has already been shown to you to be entirely false, and by the additional studies that have been put in front of you. Yet you just keep on lying about it.

  • Looks like Ken S. can’t handle being put in his properly corrected. place.

  • Wow, so the outbreak started because of an unvaccinated person, and the vaccine is only 90% effective? Wow, that’s way better than 0.00%! If only everybody was susceptible to chickenpox, this outbreak might never have happened at all! Oh, wait…

  • No need to. I’m not directly doing the work. And your no answer given, is obviously a yes answer.

  • Mike – I keep proposing a simple enough challenge for anyone who is a)smarter than the entire expert consensus and b)has read the entire package insert.

    The challenge is as follows:

    “Adverse Events without regard to causality. Please explain that in your own words.”

    All I ever get is well….

    https://youtu.be/CXiifFBHj5g

    Any ideas why?

  • The day you can correct me is the day I stick my neck on a train track, Lowell.

  • And everything you are and were told just deliberately bounces off the side of your head. The one thing that is the most rotten to the core about you, is your major level of existing hypocrisy.

  • Jesus baby

    I asked you why you copy/pasted the HuffPo article because it shows you don’t have a clue as an anti-vaxxer. NOW you’re saying it’s all a big guvment conspiracy, but why did you post it in the first place unless you’re the worst anti-vaxxer in the world (and the earth)?

  • Jesus baby

    How does it not describe A-dad perfectly? It does! Thank you Lowell!

  • You better go get your head on that track, then. Just because you refuse to do anything but deny it, does not make the reality of it all, go away.

  • Jesus baby

    Oh I know you’re not directly doing the work, Lowell. THEY are. But aren’t you curious?

  • And you actually think there is some sort of chance that you can get away with that kind of lying denial. And who in any honesty would believe you? For you it is all and only about further lying denial. You just simply make yourself look worse and worse, with each additional reply post that you make.

  • Just let what I just said keep bouncing off your head, then.

  • Sayin’ so don’t make it so, fool.

  • Jesus baby

    Your failure to explain it just makes my case that much stronger, Lowell.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I hardly ever can get anyone to explain things in their own words. I have a four month long post history with Lowell which can be summed up as:

    Lowell: Can you answer this question?
    Me: I don’t really understand it. Can you explain them better?
    Lowell: No, can you answer it anyway?

  • I just directly answered this question and issue for so called Jesus baby, in its entirety, and I am not about to repost it all again. Go to the long list of information I posted earlier, and figure out what the truth actually is. I am not here to spoon feed you.

  • Jesus baby

    Just compare and contrast A-dad’s last 5 or 10 posts at any point in time and you’ll see why that definition is SPOT ON.

  • Started by a child who didn’t have the 90% effective vaccine… Yeah, I’m not getting the anti-vaccine part of this. All I see are your bare assertions lies about varicella vaccine.

  • Are you actually that non-observant of what has been posted here? The posted studies and information have been all about those 1 and 2 doses; and requirement for 2 doses. Which by the way and the information, as well have not always worked. Like I said, the only game you trolling vaccine shills have going on here, is to ignore everything, and to create only more false and baseless antagonization.

  • It was amazing to witness his long-term inability to describe the difference between a weed and a flower, too. It was really interesting to watch him trying to work his script on a question that requires actual thought.

  • Jesus baby

    The paper you just posted was about a 1 dose study, Lowell. Come on into the 21st century.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes I saw that. There’s a part where I was trying to talk about likelihood and used the phrase “eight times in ten” and unless I’m missing something. It really seemed that he could only read it as “eight times ten”. I am utterly fascinated as to what is actually going on there.

  • Are you really that confused and inept that you can not follow the study you posted, and in comparison to the counter study I posted? Both were a one dose study, get it yet? Your study claimed to and from the same Journal that the 1 dose varicella vaccine was 84.5% effective (median; range, 44%–100%) in preventing all varicella and 100% effective (mean and median) in preventing severe varicella. The counter study I posted from the same journal, showed that the one dose vaccine was found to be largely ineffective.

    You were the person who apparently didn’t know what you were talking about, and that there were now 2 doses. You are also obviously unable to keep up on the latest and currently existing studies, and even when they are posted right in front of you.

    RESULTS:
    Nineteen publications detailed 21 varicella outbreaks with breakthrough varicella rates ranging from 0% to 42%; the publications showed no consistent trend between breakthrough varicella rate and time since vaccination.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Literature to date indicates a relatively high rate of primary vaccine failure and limited evidence of secondary vaccine failure among 1-dose varicella vaccine recipients, suggesting that a short interval between 2 doses might be preferable in countries considering implementation of universal varicella vaccination to reduce breakthrough varicella. However, any potential disruption to well-established vaccination schedules should be considered.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2013 Jul;32(7):e305-13. doi: 10.1097/INF.0b013e31828b7def.
    Primary versus secondary failure after varicella vaccination: implications for interval between 2 doses.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23838789

    You are and have to be either entirely stupid, or you are doing this deliberately and only to keep on creating posts that provide for only more antagonistic arguing over nothing. Which is it? So is so called Davids funding paying you to post, and by the number of posts you make? Sure looks like it.

  • Then go to the said reply information where that was debated and directly point out where the lies about varicella vaccine exist? You can either keep up with the replies and stay on target, or you can just quit posting. You know you can’t do it so you intentionally just sit on this post and again attempt to falsely antagonize me here; and as if nothing were ever previously addressed. That is called as well, false harassment.

  • I already have and did. The difference is that you are looking at it with your 2 inch thick hypocrisy goggles on.

  • There is nothing to explain. You posted the juvenile level of stupidity that you did, and which was only filled with your own hate filled and false accusations. You have no case, and you have not shown or proven anything; much more that is in in need of my explanation. How about if you explain it, with evidence?

  • shay simmons

    I wonder if Lowell thinks Austrians throw another shrimp on the barbie.

  • Jesus baby

    Lowell, now that you understand we use a 2 dose schedule, do you have anything relevant to copy/paste about varicella vaccine efficacy? And why do you keep asking about shillery when you’re a known Mercola shill and have this fantasy about some sort of thug-led Vactruth shill investigation going on?

  • Jesus baby

    You already have and did that?

  • The evidence is right in my replied to you, posts. Deny it all you want. Are you going to have a melt down?

  • Mike Stevens

    :-)

  • Jesus baby

    Are you denying that you posted the HuffPo article now?

  • AutismDadd

    Gladly, the stench of you is awful

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ve heard the noise is very soothing to a psyche riven by cognitive dissonance.

  • AutismDadd

    How stupid of you to resort to juvenile statements like that. Makes it seem as though you’ve got nothing.

  • AutismDadd

    And again we see the Baby has to resort to nonsense because the diaper holds nothing but crap.

  • Mike Stevens

    Those were the lower bounds of the ranges for one dose vaccine effectiveness.

    Thank you for confirming the deliberate deceit that antivaxers use in reporting scientific studies, Ron.
    Very good of you.

  • You are doing nothing more than repeatedly making it up and the story, as you go; and you know it. You can’t deal with the level of what was previously reply posted here; so now you pretend as if it was never there. Then you attempt to falsely insult my intelligence and obvious knowledge of the matter; and again as if you have witnessed and read nothing that I posted. That is why the editor of this site needs to start doing the moderation that is required and ban obviously sick people like you, and several others that are operating in the same way.

  • Boo hoo, liar. Varicella vaccine is effective, as pointed out in your own HuffPo citation.

  • I don’t see it, kiddo.

  • Do you think your deliberate denial has anything to do with that? There is nothing you will not deny and there is nothing you will ever admit to. It is rule number 1 in the Pro-Vax Shillary”, code of conduct.

  • AutismDadd

    Wow. What a clown. OK this is me talking to you ( l ) bbrraaatt

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s a usage straight from a dictionary. Sorry, you lose.

  • Ah, now comes your shill lie…

  • Jesus baby

    But da guvment be part of da conspersy

  • Jesus baby

    Antibodies shmantibodies

  • It is well established and known that there is nothing you won’t deny, and that there is nothing you wouldn’t lie about.

    84 cases reported cases of varicella were found in Vigo County, Indiana. Later it was reported to be a total of 92 cases so far. Only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. That is obviously not a vaccine success story, and no matter how much you need to deny it. The existing studies as well do not show any existing high level of efficacy for the varicella vaccine; and that clearly the chance for outbreaks in the vaccinated are indeed quite real. That is something as well the parents need to know when making informed vaccine decisions. Most are never aware of that information.

  • Jesus baby

    The whole idea of this site is to tell anti-vax lies. And they should ban YOU for making their reputation that much worse. You are the worst anti-vaxxer in the world (and the earth).

  • Of course not. We as well have already covered that issue, and which obviously has nothing to do with your said reply made six replies about this one, and which you are still arguing about. Is there any possible way that your mind can stay on posted issue and topic here; or is there some major malfunction going on with you?

  • And even that you will deny. There is no other appropriate and proper term for you. I feel like I am posting against people here, with only half an existing brain.

  • AutismDadd

    Baby is right. Zero credibility too

  • AutismDadd

    What conspiracy fool?

  • AutismDadd

    I doubt that. Anything else to make up?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Mirram-webster. Sorry you lose. :-)

  • So have you been to some other world than what exists on the earth?

    To claim to that this site tells anti-vax lies; you have to show directly and prove that, and as well within a reasonable standard and amount of doubt. In the entire time you have reply posted here, you have never accomplished that even once. On the other hand I have defended their articles with direct evidence and tons of reference information, and as well studies. What have you done, and to defend the pro-vax agenda, and if you say it is all anti-vax lies? You have likely done nothing but take shill money to post from a funder, and to simply do nothing but further post antagonizing comments to anyone here that attempts to honestly and diligently put forth the truth.

    That actually makes YOU the worst pro-vaxxer on earth.

  • Well, yeah, I’ll deny it because it’s false. Do you deny that you’re a purple alien from Neptune?

  • Jesus baby

    So why would you copy/paste an article about a chicken pox outbreak started by an unvaccinated kid unless you were a pro-vaxxer? Answer: because you think any VPD outbreak is a knock on vaccines, but you’re too uneducated and lazy to read the article.

  • Jesus baby

    Da werld wide vakseen injery conspersy

  • AutismDadd

    So are you regressing again? Explains the shit-filled diapers.

  • AutismDadd

    What did I lose, a trip to your barber? Hey I’m good then

  • It is interesting, though. I’m trying to find out what the investigation turned up, but it’s tough to do on a phone.

  • Jesus baby

    You said the world and the earth are round, Lowell, so I was just covering all the bases. You actually seem to reside in some parallel universe, where you’re some kind of knight in white shining armor fighting dragons or something. But you’re really much more like Don Quixote.You can google that.

  • Jesus baby

    No, but I do sometimes wander off.

  • AutismDadd

    You’re too kind. These bots may be brain dead, Pharma Zombies

  • Again your twisted claims are just another load of continued BS that has already been shown to be false. And as i said no un-vaccinated child was ever shown or proven to be the source of the outbreak, and for the reasons that I previously stated, and which you ignored. You simply believe that anything at all, is and just has to be true, and just because the pro-vax side says it is true. Everything that was put in front of you, and including the studies, showed you directly the reasons that the varicella vaccine is far less than adequately effective. It showed you as well the contrast between what was originally believed and promoted to be a high level of efficacy.

    And after all I have copied and pasted here on this article in regard to those studies, you still have the audacity to try and claim that I have not read them, and what was there. Obviously it has been you that had not read any of it, and that was determined right from the content of your posts.

    All you do is regurgitate the same old false claims, and the same old irrelevant trash that has already been explained, and fully gone over in regard to this matter.

  • It doesn’t seem that your butting in post here has any relevance to the posts you see posted here in this thread.

  • These shills are beyond brain dead. It just gets worse and worse on their part. You are always going to see that get much worse then they have been again beaten from goal post to goal post, with the information that has been. When they have nothing left to stand on, and they want to keep getting paid for making more falsely argumentative posts.

  • Shoo, fool. I’m talking to an adult. You couldn’t possibly be interested in the words of one adult to another.

  • You write the best delusional nonsense, Lowell. Never change.

  • So again you refuse to directly reply to the statements and the content of my reply post.

    And flagged again as inappropriate.

  • Jesus baby

    WHY DID YOU COPY/PASTE A PRO-VAX HUFFINGTON POST ARTICLE IN THE FIRST PLACE ALL YOU’RE DOING NOW IS EXPLAINING WHY YOU DON’T AGREE WITH IT YOU COPY/PASTED IT BECAUSE YOU ARE LAZY AND STUPID

  • Do you deny that your reply posting is even lower than a juvenile level of ..dumb?

  • You were told before, provide the factual evidence for every thing you post in your replies.

  • Jesus baby

    Are you denying you said the earth and world are round, Lowell? Don’t you see how bizarre that sounds? That it implies a significant underlying pathology?

  • You should describe it correctly as to yourself, and that would be to put in the terms of it being one bratty child like mentality, to another.

  • I have never said the world is round, other than the earth itself. And the only existing abnormal pathology going on here, and if any; would obviously and only be in regard to your own.

    So again, you just continue to make up your falsely harassing crap as you go.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You lost your argument.

  • No such things were stated. You again just make it up as you go. The capital letters as well now really add a new level of crazy, for you. How impressive.

  • Do you deny that you’re a purple alien from Neptune?

  • Yeah, I’ll just whip out my lack of payment for you, put it in an envelope, and mail it on out to you. It’s hilarious that you think people have to be paid to make fun of you.

  • Flagged again as inappropriate. At some point this site has to start doing some moderation; instead of just allowing it to become the further and continued out of control Skeptical Raptor blog level of childish, falsely antagonizing, and falsely accusing personal attacks posting that repeatedly goes on here.

  • You are only making a continued fool of yourself, quite frankly.

  • AutismDadd

    I don’t argue.

  • Jesus baby

    “I have never said the world is round, other than the earth itself.”

    There you go again, like you think the world is different from the earth. What is up with that?

  • Jesus baby

    For the love of God, Lowell, “No such things were stated” ??? NO SUCH THINGS WERE STATED WHAT THINGS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LOWELL

  • AutismDadd

    They will always have a pile of manure to stand on.

  • AutismDadd

    Are you from Finland?

  • AutismDadd

    Nope. I’m claiming printed word isn’t “talking”

  • AutismDadd

    Well you’ll have to take up the alien thing with some Space Cadet friend of yours.

  • AutismDadd

    snicker

  • AutismDadd

    If you are saying I carry the ball I agree. You be the waterboy…boy

  • So you do NOT deny that you’re a purple alien from Neptune, trying to spread disease to soften us up for the invasion!! I see through your little game, alien!

  • How do you propose that I should prove I’m not being paid for the pleasure of mocking you?

  • AutismDadd

    How juvenile. Maybe these forums are too much for you.

  • AutismDadd

    Someone is loozin it

  • AutismDadd

    So you admit to harassing Lowell?

  • There is no such thing here as being allowed to simply provide relevant information, and continuing in an honest debate regarding the vaccine issues. These shills will attempt to derail that outcome in any way that they can. You can see the sinister motives behind it all. For some of them there is as well and obviously a background scheme going on here, in which they are making money from it. There is as well a certain person here that posted on this article, and revealed his and the connection to what I had already been told was going on. All it takes is one arrogant funder that refuses to face the reality of the vaccine harm facts, and the real historical lack of proven efficacy issues. I have seen it before.

  • You obviously can’t prove it at all. No one would ever started and continue with what you have here, unless there were directly some kind of unrevealed conflict of interest, or a non disclosed and improper motive. And guess what, you can take a flying roll in a big excrement covered donut right off the side of the earth and I could care less as to what are, or are not connected to.

  • All I see is your obvious level of personal sickness.

  • And yet another arrogant delusion. It gives me joy every time I see a new reply from you. You’re my favorite toy right now, even if you are broken.

  • Watch Independence Day and think twice, alien scum. We’re too smart to fall for your phony tricks and too tough for you to beat. You and your space buddies better behave, or we’ll come over to Neptune and bring the fight to you!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Having describing an argument isn’t the same as arguing. You can still lose the former without doing the later.

  • Is that a threat, you obviously SICK scum bag? Well then bring it! You are not to smart for anything and you have repeatedly made a fool out of yourself here. You haven’t beaten anything. If you had any ability to actually debate the vaccine issues you obviously would, and you wouldn’t resort to the level of irrelevant and antagonizing level of personal attack sickness that you and J baby are, and have been demonstrating now. Or should I read between the lines and interpret this on a different level, and on the one that you have been denying?

  • Jonathan Graham

    So when Lowell said he was talking about something. You’re claiming he wasn’t talking? Right?

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s pretty close to what you are claiming people should do.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That grade ten ceiling for your reading comprehension is rearing it’s ugly head again. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    More like you spend your days trying hard not to have a very good conversation. Since it takes two, you succeed. :-)

  • Jesus baby

    1/4 Danish!

  • Again, that is just another direct admission of and as to your serious level of personal sickness.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, I suppose you could argue that he’s harassing me.

  • More irrelevant lies and false diversion from the purple alien from Neptune. You Neptunians must be beyond dumb and delusional.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Next thing you know he will admit not confirming that he is a purple alien! :-)

  • So in your warped mind anything involved with actual truth and reality, is a lie? The only false diversion going on here is your own.

    And you didn’t have the fortitude and nor balls answer the questions I just put to you.

  • Why don’t you just give up and go back to your own planet, loser? Your cover’s been blown and I’m not here to let some bug-eyed space creep interrogate me. You’re on our planet, lumpy. We call the shots around here.

  • What cover? Who is we? And what planet do you think you are on? You don’t call the shots on anything, and never will.

  • Polak

    Keep it Mr Hubbs you truly are so FUNNY,I have tears streaming from my eyes.

  • Polak

    Yeah JB it’s like flogging a dead horse,you keep whipping it but NO RESPONSE.

  • Keep pretending you don’t know, I’m sure that’ll work out for you, NOT!!

  • Know what? You seem to be producing another threat? Be man and just say it.

  • Here’s a threat for you: If you and your bug-eyed buddies don’t come in peace, you’ll wish you never even heard of Earth. You lay one slimy tentacle on us, and we’ll have you boys high-tailing it to the Oort Cloud just to get away from the thunder we bring.

    EARTH BELONGS TO EARTHLINGS!

  • So you hacked this persons account; or are you yet the original person? Appears that you hacked it. Come in peace, to where? I have been currently out of the info and connection loop on the story; so why aren’t you talking to them, if you are so bad-ass? If so, I don’t think anyone will be high tailing it anywhere, but you. You reap what you sow.

  • Whatever you say, Neptunian. Us Earthlings are gonna keep getting vaccinated so we can fight back. Your little disinformation scheme isn’t going to work.

  • Fight back against what? And so you talk your scared tuff guy talk and then retreat to the bushes, with your false accusation of an existing vaccine disinformation scheme. The only existing disinformation, misinformation, and vaccine lies filled scheme is your own. It takes a real coward to hide behind what you are using here, and in going up against a man here bold enough to use a real identity, and in your talking smack. Someone like you has to be very evil, and out rightly sick.

  • Obviously, that’s not your real identity. Naturally, you’d project your Neptunian treachery onto me when you’re the guilty one. Is Lowell Hubbs just a made up name, or did you murder the poor guy and steal his identity to cover up your own activities?

  • Your Neptunian bullshitary is a pretty good cover I would say, and of course it appears that I already know what you are connected to. And nope, I can prove its really me. At this point have you considered signing into a mental institution, and just take up hiding out there? In all honesty, I think it would be the best thing for you.

  • Obviously it’s not really you, if you won’t even deny being a purple alien from Neptune.

  • I’m done with this stupid conversation, and your account clearly needs to be banned.

  • AutismDadd

    No you could argue it. I believe its you doing the harassment..

  • AutismDadd

    The other 3/4 a big crap filled diaper?

  • You better be done, lumpy! Get back in your little flying saucer and get the hell outta here!

  • AutismDadd

    I’m already amused poking shills with a pointy stick, I don’t need conversation. Notice I left out good, because you’ve overrated the conversation on here.

  • AutismDadd

    Actually I’m snickering at your lack of reading comprehension.

  • AutismDadd

    Its not a game of horseshoes.

  • AutismDadd

    See? Nonsense.

  • You don’t give the orders on anything, psycho Neptunazoid. Don’t forget my advice, four posts up.

  • And don’t you forget mine, Zblorgon or whatever your real name is.

  • I could care less about yours, and in regard to your threats.

  • Well if one dose was actually effective, then why did they say and in the studies that it was ineffective, and add a second dose to the vaccine schedule?

  • Polak you will put a like on any post a pro-vax shill makes, and no matter how dumb it is.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell goes out of his way to find me and post to me, his posts are generally long streams of abusive speech. I generally do not look for Lowell’s posts and my posts to him are generally patient responses to his antics. Frequently I provide help for communicating with me. Your belief is not based on any evidence. Which is exemplified by you being unable to produce evidence. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m already amused poking shills with a pointy stick

    Well a) It’s nice to see you confess that your desire is to harm people. Lowell did that in a video already. b) Since it’s exceptionally unlikely that anyone you talk to here is a shill. You are just trying to harm ordinary people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    However you are claiming that people should accept a believe based on exceptionally poor evidence. Which is just asking people to be gullible.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Whatever you need to tell yourself. Apparently today you need to tell yourself quite a bit.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s just English. Is that really so hard to understand. I can describe an argument for the existence of God. However I’m not technically in an argument with someone over the existence of God.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea OK…facepalm

  • AutismDadd

    Its not about me. You’re the Star right?

  • AutismDadd

    Maybe I should apply for work at the CDC

  • AutismDadd

    By metaphorically poking them with a pointy stick?

  • AutismDadd

    Who would think a liar would deny what he does? I guess most people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …no counter-argument. So I take it you understand where you went wrong. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m nobody special but you’ve had to self-soothe quite a bit tonight. Drinking much?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Another deflection. You are still asking people to be gullible.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I think your metaphor betrays a pretty obvious intent.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and your accusations of lying are equally made up. As exemplified by being unable to point out where I’ve lied. Examples of every thing I put in that previous post: Lowell going out of his way to find me, his posts being mostly abusive, my responses are patient and I’ve provided advice to help him communicate with me. Are all easily found. Want examples? Well if your purpose here was something other than to harass people you might. :-)

  • Mike Stevens

    Because it wasn’t fully 100% effective, and adding a second dose maximised effectiveness out to 97% plus.

  • Mike Stevens

    If an alien stole Lowell’s identity to cover up his own activities, he must have been pretty desperate!

  • Jesus baby

    No, A-dad – French, Irish and Scottish! You seem to have a fecal fixation!

  • Jesus baby

    Hey Lowell, I have more upvotes than posts yet you, on an anti-vax site, are barely breaking 50%. What should that tell you?

  • sabelmouse

    they ain’t stupid.

  • Ron Roy

    No sh_ t Sherlock which also means people have TWICE the chance of suffering the side effects from that vaccine. Russian Roulette with two live rounds out of six. No thanks.

  • Ron Roy

    He must be or or he’s using scare tactics again to try and get everyone vaccinated. I remember as a kid me and my friends getting chickenpox and guess what none of us got disabled or died from that mild disease.

  • Ron Roy

    He hopes they’ll pay him back when he makes dumb statements.

  • Ron Roy

    You have it backwards again. It’s those that criticize Mercola that are quacks.

  • Ron Roy

    It was such a dumb question that it didn’t deserve an answer But I can’t help myself I’ll answer: A weed is simply a plant / flower growing where you don’t want it. The names weed and plant are interchangeable. If I have a potato plant growing in my carrot bed it becomes a weed.

  • Ron Roy

    If you don’t want to be called a shill don’t be one and disappear.

  • And that simple explanation is what Lowell was and is terrified to give me. You have a tremendous advantage over him — you have an intellect capable of processing and constructively answering a question on your own.

  • Ron Roy

    Well what are you waiting for? I hear the train coming.

  • It’s not quite time yet. First, Lowell has to do his bit!

  • 655321
  • 655321

    This you?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I think Ron reveals his agenda here: Harass people who disagree by calling them a shill until they go away.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh so if none of your friends had serious outcomes it can’t be bad for you?

  • Jonathan Graham

    122 claims were filed in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for
    serious injuries and deaths following the chicken pox vaccination, including eight deaths.

    How many doses of the vaccine had been given by that time Ron?

  • FallsAngel

    Agreed. And keep in mind, those are claims. What does VAERS say on the first page of their site? Something about claims not being evidence of causality.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Claims for something with a lower barrier to entry than a tort case against a pharmaceutical company no less. So we should expect a portion of those claims to be without merit.

  • Jesus baby

    I don’t care about anti-vaxxers playing the shill gambit (I mean what else do they have?), but I always like pointing out Hubbsie’s hypocrisy.

  • Mike Stevens

    I wouldn’t be too quick in denying an adverse neurological outcome if I were you, Ron.

  • JGC

    Nice quote mining, Ron: what the report actually stated was “Chickenpox vaccine effectiveness is reported to be 44 percent for any form of the disease and 86 percent for moderate to severe disease”.

    In what world is 86% effective against moderate or severe disease a bad thing?

  • Ron Roy

    Yeah it really damaged my brain. I had my own business for 19 years and was able to retire at 47. Maybe if the chickenpox hadn’t damaged my brain I could have retired at 46.

  • Ron Roy

    ”How many doses of the vaccine had been given by that time Ron?” Too many. Now if we take into consideration how many people don’t file claims because they believed their doctor when he said ” it had nothing to do with the vaccine” and the fact that a lot of people are in denial those claims would increase dramatically.

  • Ron Roy

    Right. Getting these mild diseases only serves to strengthen the immune system the way it was meant to be. Actually all one needs to avoid the disease or at least any complication from the disease is a good diet,

  • Jonathan Graham

    How many friend did you have?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again how many doses were given Ron? Anytime you want to actually justify your figures instead of making them up. Let me know.

  • AutismDadd

    Nope

  • AutismDadd

    Read a bunch. Handy works hard. No surprises for me, I know that we are simply up against government red tape. They promised protection and they are delivering it while selling their miserable souls.

  • AutismDadd

    I witnessed my kids. They were smiling and playing. They had no idea they were in the clutches of a KILLER DISEASE.

  • AutismDadd

    Just corrupt

  • AutismDadd

    If you stop hiding behind a baby persona I might treat you like an adult.

  • AutismDadd

    There’s something not kosher about these statements of yours….

  • AutismDadd

    Maybe I can teach them a lesson with my metaphoric stick. Makes a great Christmas gift.

  • Mike Stevens

    The disease gives you 6 live rounds in the chamber Ron.

  • AutismDadd

    Most don’t need help with that.

  • AutismDadd

    Oh my. Stooping that low?

  • AutismDadd

    Followed up with more nonsense. You are on a roll

  • Jesus baby

    No you’d still just be a troll.

  • 655321

    Yeah, in mike’s imaginary pee wee Herman world, where once mild harmless childhood diseases are transformed into devastating epidemics culling the population of kids on oversized tricycles.

  • AutismDadd

    Soiled another one

  • Jonathan Graham

    That’s your demand: Be gullible.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well if you’re self-soothing one way it’s not entirely unreasonable that you might combine it with another method.

  • Jesus baby

    See what I mean?

  • AutismDadd

    Having compassion for Ken S(hill) is nice of you Ron. He doesn’t deserve it, but you’ve made him look small by being this accommodating

  • AutismDadd

    You need to stop making assumptions.

  • AutismDadd

    That’s smell what I made?

  • AutismDadd

    Where have I demanded people be gullible? That’s the CDC’s job.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s just English…and not hard to understand. Which is probably why you’re deflecting.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s not an unreasonable possibility that someone with your problems. Uses various methods to self soothe.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well you keep demanding people believe things that are only supported by weak evidence.

  • It tells me what I already know and which I have stated before, all of your upvotes are provided to you by other known vaccine shills just as in denial, evil, and sick as you are. Is that some sort of news to you? And as well what should that picture mean to the readers that earnestly search for the vaccine truth? Are you really that dumb? Obviously you are.

  • shay simmons

    Facts not in evidence.

  • Terrified? Really? You are such a make it up as you go, liar. You were expressing that question at the time in your deliberate evasion of any understanding of the real issue at the time, and in terms of explanation regarding the soil and the seed explanation and comparison regarding the understanding of physiologically based health care. So who is really and deliberately the misunderstanding and can’t reply to the actual subject matters going on at the time, stooge here, you or me? Your question was just a projection of your own evasive and deliberate ignorance.

  • Really? And you know that you do nothing but lie about it all and twist everything you say, and as well you simply form false and baseless claims that are doing nothing again and again, but exposing your own hypocrisy.

  • Oh really, and you call yourself a purveyor of the science? Oh, and see you want us to still believe your false propaganda, and that the first dose was found to be just a little less than 100% effective, so they added a second dose, and the vaccine is now 98% plus effective? And no actual vaccine failure was at all responsible for the added dose, right? And now that you claim the varicella vaccine is 98% plus effective, there have been no outbreaks in the fully vaccinated, right? Obviously you did not read the real data and study information. Here is again for you.

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery
    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Here is an example of just some of the information found on this above page.

    Autism rise linked to chickenpox vaccine containing aborted fetal DNA
    http://www.examiner.com/article/autism-rise-linked-to-chickenpox-vaccine-containing-aborted-fetal-dna?cid=rss

    Chickenpox Vaccine Use is Highly Statistically Related to Autism Disorder

    Source: Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Insitute

    By Dr. Theresa Deisher

    Over four years ago it was obvious to my eye that autism disorder rates changed dramatically in certain specific years. Looking at autism disorder prevalence data from the US Dept of Education it was clear that there were three specific years in which autism prevalence rose dramatically, and Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute (SCPI) went on to perform the statistical analysis to show that 1980, 1988 and 1996 were ‘changepoint’ years for autism disorder. In 2010 the EPA published data confirming the 1988 changepoint as a worldwide autism disorder changepoint. As the EPA scientists point out in their publication, identification of ‘changepoints’ such as these tell us that some environmental factor was introduced that triggered such a sudden and dramatic rise in autism. Pasted below are the 3 changepoints Sound Choice identified for autism disorder prevalence in the US.

    What environmental factor is associated with these three changepoints? The only childhood universal factor that is associated with all three changepoints is the introduction of vaccines contaminated with aborted fetal DNA and retroviral fragments. In 1979 the first aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (MMRII), in 1989 a second dose of this vaccine was added and compliance doubled, and in 1995 another aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (Varicella – chickenpox).

    Read More:
    http://onemoresoul.com/news-commentary/chickenpox-vaccine-use-is-highly-statistically-related-to-autism-disorder.html

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster

    Gary S. Goldman, Medical Veritas International (MVI), Pearblossom, California, USA

    Do you actually think that the rationalization for a varicella, (chicken pox vaccine, and as well the now so called shingles vaccine, which is the same thing, only with more antigen in it), was NOT that rationale motivated by profits?

    Excerpt from the Conclusion:

    The potential intervention to provide a booster varicella (or shingles) vaccination to adults aged 60 years and older (Oxman 1995) will fail to ameliorate the greatest potential for increased burden of HZ disease among adults aged 90%) 1-dose coverage. Optimal timing of the second dose may depend on whether breakthrough varicella results from primary vaccine failure (no protective immunity after vaccination) or secondary vaccine failure (waning protective immunity).

    METHODS:
    Published literature (1995 to 2012) on vaccine failure after varicella vaccination cited in PubMed and other online sources was reviewed.

    RESULTS:
    Nineteen publications detailed 21 varicella outbreaks with breakthrough varicella rates ranging from 0% to 42%; the publications showed no consistent trend between breakthrough varicella rate and time since vaccination.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Literature to date indicates a relatively high rate of primary vaccine failure and limited evidence of secondary vaccine failure among 1-dose varicella vaccine recipients, suggesting that a short interval between 2 doses might be preferable in countries considering implementation of universal varicella vaccination to reduce breakthrough varicella. However, any potential disruption to well-established vaccination schedules should be considered.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23838789

    I don’t find that to be very affirmative of and impressive in regard to that vaccines actual, efficacy.

    Epidemiologist Confirms Serious Outbreak of Chicken Pox, 97 Percent Who Were Vaccinated

    “Vigo County usually has less than 10 cases a year; however, since the end of September, Vigo County has reported 84 cases which would meet the definition of an unusual occurrence of disease,” Dr. Joan Duwve, M.D., of the Indiana State Department of Health, told the Tribune-Star. “Prompt identification, investigation and control of chickenpox outbreaks are important. Even mild cases can be contagious.”

    Placed another call to the Indiana State Department of Health. Was able to reach the epidemiologist working the chicken pox outbreak. There are a total of 92 cases so far. Only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. They are seeing fewer lesions in the fully vaccinated. Zero deaths. Possibly one hospitalization but not sure off the top of their head. Zero complications from chicken pox. We were told that only one chicken pox vaccine was supposed to provide lifelong immunity but this did not turn out to be the case. A booster was added and yet we are seeing a very high rate of fully vaccinated children contracting chicken pox. We asked if another booster will be mandated and told possibly. We asked about vaccine failures and were told this is not vaccine failure because the severity of lesions in the fully vaccinated was less than if never vaccinated and that no vaccine is 100% effective. We were told that if vaccines save one life they are worth it. We asked how many children died from chicken pox before the vaccine. This epidemiologist was unsure.

    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/12/11/epidemiologist-confirms-serious-outbreak-of-chicken-pox-97-percent-who-were-vaccinated/

    TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – The chief medical officer of the Indiana State Department of Health says western Indiana’s Vigo County is experiencing the largest known current outbreak of chickenpox in the U.S.

    Dr. Joan Duwve (DUH’-vee) told the Terre Haute Tribune-Star for a story this week that Vigo County usually has fewer than 10 cases per year but had had 84 since September. The Vigo County health Department has scaled back the number of cases after reporting more than 100 cases earlier in the week.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/23/indiana-chickenpox-outbreak-largest-in-us-official-says.html

    Health Impact News

    Vigo County of Indiana is currently experiencing the country’s largest outbreak of Chicken Pox, with 92 cases so far. Out of these 92 cases, only 3 were never vaccinated. That means this may be the nation’s first case of a serious Chicken Pox outbreak among children who were actually vaccinated for Chicken Pox. The Indiana Coalition for Vaccination Choice reports on their Facebook page:

    Placed another call to the Indiana State Department of Health. Was able to reach the epidemiologist working the chicken pox outbreak. There are a total of 92 cases so far. Only 3 were never vaccinated. 10 had received one vaccine and 79 were fully vaccinated. They are seeing fewer lesions in the fully vaccinated. Zero deaths. Possibly one hospitalization but not sure off the top of their head. Zero complications from chicken pox. We were told that only one chicken pox vaccine was supposed to provide lifelong immunity but this did not turn out to be the case. A booster was added and yet we are seeing a very high rate of fully vaccinated children contracting chicken pox. We asked if another booster will be mandated and told possibly. We asked about vaccine failures and were told this is not vaccine failure because the severity of lesions in the fully vaccinated was less than if never vaccinated and that no vaccine is 100% effective. We were told that if vaccines save one life they are worth it. We asked how many children died from chicken pox before the vaccine. This epidemiologist was unsure.

    https://healthimpactnews.com/2012/serious-chicken-pox-outbreak-in-indiana-is-among-vaccinated-children/

    Largest Chickenpox Outbreak In The U.S. Hits Vigo County In Indiana, (84 cases)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/chickenpox-outbreak-largest-vigo-county-indiana_n_2199231.html

    As for the above Huffington Post article, it as well stating this.

    Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was un-vaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time. It can also occur in a less-severe form in children who have been properly vaccinated, Duwve noted.

    My note: In every case they attempt to falsely blame the un-vaccinated, and regardless of how obvious the evidence of existing vaccine failure, actually is. They can not actually show or prove the source of the original ground zero person so called causing the outbreak. They never determined of provided evidence for that at Disney Land, either; but still the un-vacinated were again blamed.

    See now how they spin it ALL??? NEVER admit to failure of ANY vaccine, nor any harm; not even as to Gardasil. Pertussis vaccine, covering up the failure, and the same spin only worse! More doses and more boosters needed.

    Take a look as well at all the similar outbreaks in the vaccinated and in regard to the pertussis and measles vaccines, which listed on this site page, right here.

    The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine.html

    Chickenpox outbreak makes strong case for vaccination. (Really? Failed vaccination, again makes a strong case for vaccination, and re-vaccination; injected dose after dose. What kind of as well failed logic, is that?)
    http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20121128/OPINION03/311280016/Annette-Mercatante-Chickenpox-outbreak-makes-strong-case-vaccination

    Varicella Vaccine Effectiveness in the US Vaccination Program: A Review

    Study excerpt:

    Outbreak investigations.

    Most studies of varicella vaccine effectiveness have been conducted during outbreak investigations. These investigations all used a retrospective cohort study design with clinically diagnosed disease as the outcome. Details on illness were obtained retrospectively from parents and health care providers, with some information (and case reports) obtained prospectively if the outbreak was ongoing. In recent years, standard practice during outbreaks has been to confirm some varicella cases through laboratory testing [8, 21, 23, 24]. Thirteen investigations of outbreaks provided 16 separate estimates of vaccine effectiveness for the prevention of all varicella that ranged from 44%–100% (mean, 79.9%; median, 84.5%), with higher estimates for the prevention of combined moderate and severe varicella (mean, 95.6%; median, 96.5%) and severe varicella only (100%) [8–10, 13–16, 18, 21–24]. During the early years of the varicella vaccination program, outbreaks were reported to occur predominantly in child care centers [13, 17, 18]. In more-recent years, outbreaks have been reported to occur almost exclusively in elementary schools, some of which have extremely high vaccine coverage (96%–98%) [10, 19, 21, 25].

    Read more:
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S82.long

    Wow, really impressive huh? Look at the references; and it all looks as quackery crazy as a cat chasing its tail.

    When even the CDC admits to outbreaks in the vaccinated; and then down plays it claiming, oh well; it should lessen the severity of the case if the child gets two doses.

    Chickenpox (Varicella)

    Outbreaks

    See Control & Investigation of Outbreaks for guidance in monitoring, investigating and controlling varicella outbreaks.

    Data on the number of chickenpox (varicella) outbreaks that occur each year in the United States are limited. But, since the chickenpox vaccine was introduced, the number of outbreaks has gone down.

    Chickenpox outbreaks continue to occur even in settings such as schools where most children are vaccinated with one dose. However, there have been fewer outbreaks reported ever since the two-dose chickenpox vaccination program started in the United States. Also, these outbreaks have been smaller. The vaccine may not prevent all chickenpox, but it is very effective at preventing severe cases.

    http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/outbreaks.html

    Then the AAP. (Again questionable vaccine effectiveness)

    Article

    Chickenpox Outbreak in a Highly Vaccinated School Population

    Conclusions. A chickenpox outbreak occurred in a school in which 97% of students without a prior history of chickenpox were vaccinated. Students vaccinated >5 years before the outbreak were at risk for breakthrough disease. Booster vaccination may deserve additional consideration.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/3/455.full

    Varicella Outbreaks After Vaccine Licensure: Should They Make You Chicken?

    Vaccinated children with varicella had milder disease than unvaccinated. In conclusion, we found varicella outbreaks in CCCs with both high and low vaccination coverage. Vaccine effectiveness was within the range predicted by the literature. Vaccination led to a lower attack rate in the highly vaccinated CCC and appeared to protect from severe disease.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/104/3/561.full

    But yet in the mainstream literature they are still attempting to claim the varicella vaccine, is 90% effective; so WHICH is it?

    The question is, in an illness that is generally mild and recovered from without complications in a few days; would you want to trade a less severe case of varicella, for the toxicity and contaminant potential of the vaccine? And what effect does the vaccine have on developing that life time immunity acquired with natural infection? They don’t tell you, do they? What is the answer? So, they are trading increased chances of and cases of shingles, and the added need of a shingles vaccine, for THIS? They are trading for THIS, knowing there will be need of life time varicella boosters. Shingles vaccine is only a stronger antigen form of the varicella vaccine, as you will recall. And the woman who becomes pregnant at lets say for example age 21-26; are they going to test for believed protective, antibody titers? Eventually, will they vaccinate during pregnancy? And actually, how can they claim there is no pharma for profit madness going on here?

    Varicella Outbreak Among Vaccinated Children — Nebraska, 2004
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5527a3.htm

    Lets take a LOOK at what is actually in the varicella vaccine! THAT is a lot of chemical and biologically altered CRAP, to be injecting in your child!

    Chicken pox (varicella) Vaccines
    Varivax (VZV) varicella virus, live
    Manufacturer Merck

    Microorganism Varicella zoster (chickenpox) virus, Oka/Merck strain
    Licensed 07/12/2006

    Recommendations Two injections in children, adults two injections

    Ingredients: Gelatin, Monosodium Glutamate (MSG), Human Diploid cells: MRC5 proteins, Neomycin, Sucrose, Sodium chloride, Sodium phosphate-monobasic, Sodium phosphate-dibasic dodecahydrate, Bovine (cow) serum, Potassium phosphate, Human diploid cells (WI-38), Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), Potassium chloride, Glutamate.

    Product Descriptions

    Package Insert:
    http://www.novaccine.com/pdffiles/VARIVAX_III_package_insert.pdf

    http://www.fda.gov/cber/efoi/approve.htm

    http://www.novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=14

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid Cells (aborted fetal cell tissue) not a good situation
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Continued:

  • Continuation.

    Shingles Goes Epidemic: Chicken Pox Vaccine to Blame

    Should it be important to know, THIS? Why is the CDC not telling anyone nor putting any of that forth? Instead they again paint only a rose garden picture with more fear mongering, about the getting vaccinated for varicella, benefits. Ask, why was there no seen need for a shingles vaccine prior to the varicella vaccine; trading one short term low risk illness for a potentially long term, other; and more repeat toxic and potentially ineffective vaccinations. More harm than good. Typical.

    Excerpts: A Developing Shingles Epidemic

    But there’s an even darker side to this picture: shingles. Shingles is a far more serious condition. At a minimum, it causes a rash along the path that a nerve root serves, along with severe pain that lasts for around a month. Mercola reports that it can also lead to “bacterial skin infections, Hutchinson’s sign, Ramsay Hunt Syndrome, motor neuropathy, meningitis, hearing loss, blindness, and bladder impairment”[1].

    Now shingles is increasing. Worse, we’re seeing children get it. Though it’s still rare in them, the fact is that children virtually never suffered from shingles until the chicken pox vaccine was implemented.

    But why would shingles be increasing, with even children succumbing, when there’s a chicken pox vaccine? It turns out, as documented by the statistical analysis of Gary S. Goldman[3], that exposure to children with chicken pox boosts one’s immunity to shingles.The mechanism isn’t known, but the protection is real.

    The UK’s Public Health Laboratory Service has found that adults who live with children and are exposed to chicken pox as a result receive protection against shingles[4]. In other words, exposure to active cases of chicken pox results in a boost to the immune system’s ability to prevent shingles attacks.

    Now that children are getting chicken pox less often, the adults in their lives are unlikely to come into contact with active chicken pox. The result is more and more shingles, with all the pain and adverse effects entailed.

    Risks of Chicken Pox Vaccine

    Chicken pox and shingles vaccines carry serious risks. As Dr. Mercola points out[1], between March 1995 and July 1998, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) reported 6.574 adverse events associated with chicken pox. That’s about 1 adverse event for every 1.481 vaccinations.

    About 4% of those reports resulted in severe adverse effects, including ”shock, encephalitis (brain inflammation), and thrombocytopenia (a blood disorder)”[1]. 14 deaths were reported.

    In all likelihood, at most only 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines are reported to VAERS. That brings the total number of deaths from the vaccine to a more probable 140 in a little over four years, which approaches the number of child deaths attributed to chicken pox prior to vaccination.

    When you also factor in the fact that many vaccinated children and adults still get chicken pox, it becomes apparent that the vaccine is providing little or no benefit. It may even be resulting in more deaths, not fewer.

    Read more:
    http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2013-02-18/shingles-goes-epidemic-chicken-pox-vax-to-blame/

    Why a Shingles Epidemic is Bolting Straight at the U.S. Chickenpox is Nature’s Way of Protecting You from Shingles, Vaccine Protection is Only Temporary
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

    Risk Of Viral Reactivation With Shingles Vaccine, (Did the CDC inform you of this yet, no?)
    http://www.vaccineinjuryhelpcenter.com/shingles-vaccine/

    NVIC Challenges VAERS Data of Chickenpox Vaccine Adverse Events
    http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/pressrelease/pressrelease9132000.aspx

    Chickenpox Vaccine Protection Fails; Booster Needed
    http://vaccineawakening.blogspot.com/2007/03/chickenpox-vaccine-protection-fails.html

    New Study Backs Up Evidence Chicken Pox Vaccine Causing Epidemic of Shingles
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/new-study-backs-up-evidence-chicken-pox-vaccine-causing-epidemic-of-shingles/

    Hautarzt. 2013 Feb
    [Herpes zoster after varicella-zoster vaccination].
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358727

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

    Vaccine Market Size Projected To Reach $77.5 Billion By 2024
    https://www.grandviewresearch.com/press-release/global-vaccine-market

  • That could only be from the exposure of your level of delusions, embarrassment. Keep making it up as you go.

  • Polak

    Mr Hubbs WOW what a comeback NOT.

  • You know that you are one of lowest qualifying and least knowledgeable shills, here. You don’t yet make even as much as a “rookie” title, and classification.

  • And you refused to answer it, fleeing in your cowardice, because you had to deliberately evade ever having to actually support your delusional false claims in your own words. If you weren’t such a deceitful lying creep, we could have actually communicated. The very thought of being held accountable for your words terrified you, so you ran away. Just like you always do, liar.

  • He may not have the right answers very often, but you’ve got to admit that Ron just showed far more lucidity and capacity for thought than the Lowellbot ever has. He was able to answer a question and produce a relevant example.

  • No evidence of and/or proof of vaccine injury and/or resulting death exists ever, right? So they can all just go on their merry way, and in denying it all.

    As well tell me who created VAERS, and with as well their known existing only 1 to 10% reporting factor? Why do you think that reporting factor is so low? Who does the CDC and FDA really represent, and as to who’s interests?

    For the readers that actually care about the truth of what goes on.

    REGISTER NOW TO WATCH THE 9-PART DOCU-SERIES, “VACCINES REVEALED.”
    http://www.vaccinesrevealed.com/landing/

    The U.S. Centers For Disease Control – A History of Corruption

    The recent controversy over the documentary “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” despite being attacked by so many who haven’t seen it, is bringing public attention to real life episodes of vaccine damaged children and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) whistleblower Dr. William Thompson’s attempt to reveal fraud in the CDC. But this accurate CDC episode reveals only one episode of hiding data to deal disinformation publicly that doesn’t support vaccine safety. There have been several other vaccine report cover-ups and other types of fraudulent activity in addition to the Dr. Thompson whistleblower episode. They all support the need to dismantle the bloated budgetary expanse of CDC headquarters and activities. The CDC’s financial waste was investigated in great detail by Senator Tom Coburn in 2007, unfortunately nothing substantial came of his work. The CDC keeps demanding and getting more funding. We’ll start from the most recent discovery of lies and cover-ups and work back chronologically to earlier episodes of CDC outright blatant deception and fraud that serve to protect various industries instead of the people that are harmed by pharmaceutical interventions, especially vaccines.

    Read More…
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2016/the-u-s-centers-for-disease-control-a-history-of-corruption/

    CDC Corruption is Rampant
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/cdc-corruption-rampant/

    The CDC is being influenced by corporate and political interests
    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/301432-the-cdc-is-being-being-influenced-by-corporate-and-political

    CDC Scientists Expose Agency Corruption

    The group, which claimed to represent scientists across the CDC’s diverse branches, calls itself SPIDER (Scientists Preserving Integrity, Diligence and Ethics in Research). The letter to CDC Chief of Staff, Carmen Villar, expressed alarm “about the current state of ethics at our agency.” The scientists complained that “our mission is being influenced and shaped by outside parties and rogue interests” and “circumvented by some of our leaders.”

    The scientists told Villar that, “questionable and unethical practices, occurring at all levels and in all of our respective units, threaten to undermine our credibility and reputation as a trusted leader in public health.” The letter charged that staff level scientists “are intimidated and pressed to do things they know are not right,” and that, “Senior management officials at CDC are clearly aware and even condone these behaviors.”

    Read more:
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/cdc-scientists-expose-agency-corruption/

    CDC BLOCKS TESTIMONY OF VACCINE WHISTLEBLOWER
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/cdc-blocks-testimony-vaccine-whistleblower-medical-malpractice-case/

  • Careful around those strawmen! If you let some of the straw get on you, it’ll itch like the dickens! Nice to see you can still paste lies as well as ever, too.

  • “known vaccine shills”

    This, from a known purple alien from Neptune. You are beyond sick, Zblorgon.

  • How many vaccine injury claims do you think are never filled, and by parents far to busy and pre-occupied with caring for their vaccine injured and disabled child? How about the parents as well that possibly do not even know the federal vaccine court exists? How about as well the parents that actually believed their pharma schooled and brainwashed doctor, and as to that vaccine providers claim that the condition of their child, was not related to a vaccine, or multiple injected vaccines?

    How about as well considering the number of parents that went to the federal vaccine courts website and read the dismal statistics data, and which shows literally the odds of winning a compensated settlement; and then decided that it was or may not be worth their time, time taken away from work, and the initial out off pocket expense that it would take to file a claim?

    [Since 1988, over 17,732 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27- year time period, 15,312 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,143 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,169 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.5 billion.]

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

  • Hey, what happened to your reply posting last night, and as to the crazy posted documentary that you made? The one where you posted as if you were a speaking and typing the post, alien. The one where you actually detailed and admitted to what you did, and in those posts. And now you even walk away from that as if it never happened? So would you like to start back up with a continuation of that, here?

  • What the hell are you talking about?

  • If that were true, everyone that remains unvaccinated would die, and that which has acquired any so called VPD. Where have you seen that happening?

  • So somehow are you going to claiming that someone hacked your discus account?

    You don’t remember this post? Really?

    Ken S. Lowell Hubbs • 2 minutes ago
    Here’s a threat for you: If you and your bug-eyed buddies don’t come in peace, you’ll wish you never even heard of Earth. You lay one slimy tentacle on us, and we’ll have you boys high-tailing it to the Oort Cloud just to get away from the thunder we bring.

    EARTH BELONGS TO EARTHLINGS!

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/vactruth/13_year_old_boy_permanently_disabled_from_chicken_pox_vaccine_wins_his_case_in_vaccine_court/#comment-3090013483

    13 Year-Old Boy Permanently Disabled from Chicken Pox Vaccine Wins His Case in Vaccine Court · Vaccine Truth · Disqus
    The web’s community of communities now has one central hub.
    disqus.com
    Chat Conversation End
    Seen 6:06am

  • The one where you posted as if you were a speaking and typing the post, alien. The one where you actually detailed and admitted to what you did, and in those posts.

    This makes no sense. You’re the alien, Zblorgon, not me. What the hell do you imagine I detailed and admitted to? Just goes to show that you Neptunian slugs can’t even read!

  • So then why did you just ask me, what the hell are you talking about; and when you quite obviously know what I am talking about? And obviously as well it is you that can’t read. And now you have additionally respond here with this, [This makes no sense. You’re the alien, Zblorgon, not me.] Wow. And does the copy of the far bottom post you made and see there, have any connection to what you perceive as real events?

  • shay simmons

    A tangelo shows more lucidity and capacity for thought than the Lowellbot ever has…however, I will cede the point.

  • Polak

    I got all my skills from you Mr Hubbs

  • What skills do you have?

  • I asked what you were talking about because your description of our conversation was confusing and completely false. You seem to think that I was claiming to be an alien or that I admitted to something. I don’t know what language you speak on your home planet, but you’ve got to brush up on your English.

  • Jesus baby

    “And as well what should that picture mean to the readers that earnestly search for the vaccine truth?”
    They’ll see I have a lot more upvotes than you, Lowell, so they’ll value my opinion more than yours. It all comes down to credibility.

  • Polak

    As I said, all the skills I have,I learned from you Mr Hubbs.

  • A tangelo shows more lucidity and capacity for thought than the Lowellbot ever has

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdghRwWfaOQ

  • Jesus baby

    Yeah says the known Mercola shill/hypocrite who claims everyone else is shilling. How much was your Mercola Christmas bonus, Lowell?

  • Really? Confusing and completely false? And in what kind of a twisted world would anything you just stated, provide for any truth, and make any sense at all. And threats are still threats regardless of what form you put them in. Making statements are as well still statements regardless of what attempted to be semi-hidden form you put them in.

    And it just gets worse.

    Ken S. Lowell Hubbs • a day ago
    Watch Independence Day and think twice, alien scum. We’re too smart to fall for your phony tricks and too tough for you to beat. You and your space buddies better behave, or we’ll come over to Neptune and bring the fight to you!
    2 • Reply•Share ›
    Ken S. Lowell Hubbs • a day ago
    Why don’t you just give up and go back to your own planet, loser? Your cover’s been blown and I’m not here to let some bug-eyed space creep interrogate me. You’re on our planet, lumpy. We call the shots around here.
    2 • Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    Lowell Hubbs Ken S. • a day ago
    What cover? Who is we? And what planet do you think you are on? You don’t call the shots on anything, and never will.
    • Edit• Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    Ken S. Lowell Hubbs • a day ago
    Keep pretending you don’t know, I’m sure that’ll work out for you, NOT!!
    3 • Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    Lowell Hubbs Ken S. • a day ago
    Know …what? You seem to be producing another threat? Be a man and just say it.
    • Edit• Reply•Share ›

  • Polak

    Is he calling you Polak?Talk about confused.

  • Your post is baseless and false harassment that amounts to deliberate libelous/slander.

  • And I asked you what skills do you have? You obviously didn’t get your reading comprehension skills and ability, from me.

  • What? Your grammar is shit, Zblorgon. I don’t understand what it is that you’re trying to communicate to me.

  • Polak

    Mr Hubbs,let me put it as simply as I can. The skills that I have are the ones that I learned from you,SO obviously that means that all the skills that you have,I have them as well,I am sorry but I can not put it any simpler than that.And no I am not evading,I am doing my best to answer your question which was “what skills do you have?”The other skills are on my bio page which states “audio and video restoration”

  • No, that was the only way a reply could be posted to YOU, and directly under the post and the LIKE that you put on his post. Get it? You are the one that is actually confused.

  • I just explained to you why that is a delusional claim. There is again nothing you will not deny; and which is also directly again a strike against your own credibility. It is simply preposterous and absurd that you would even try to assert that you have any credibility remaining.

  • Oh, you very well do understand it, and that again is a lie. Your first lie was when you stated, “what the hell are you talking about”. You obviously didn’t expect what I replied with; and as well obviously you knew.

  • Polak

    Lowell Hubbs

    Jesus baby

    a day ago

    Polak you will put a like on any post a pro-vax shill makes, and no matter how dumb it is.
    No Mr Hubbs, if you want to reply to me it’s easy, you linked your reply to JB.=CONFUSED.

  • No, I really don’t. Are you trying to ask me a question? I’m not in the habit of answering questions for known alien invaders like you.

  • Mr Polak, or whatever your name is. You might as well just quit blabbering your nonsense, and that simply just wastes any readers time.

  • Polack, what did I just tell you, and you ignored it. If I had posted directly to you, no one would have seen directly or known what I was talking about. See how stupid you look when you refuse to be wrong? And we can see the post right here; so there was no reason or point to copying it. Maybe you should change your character name to, I’m a just learning apprentice, shill rookie.

  • You always say that and you are always lying. Give it up, not taking the bait. You said what you said, and I clearly know exactly what it said and what it means. End of story. Clearly, and in my view of it, both you and so called Jesus baby have now directly admitted to what you are involved in. Don’t play your sick games with me.

  • What have I admitted to? I don’t get it.

  • You know exactly what that is. And if you want to keep taunting me with your threats; and then simply deny that you have; then I suggest that you once and for all be man, and just bring it. No more replies are needed.

  • I have no idea what it is that you’re saying I admitted to, Zblorgon, and neither do you. Every comment you make is just incoherent delusion and bluster. You’re pathetic.

  • Liar. Perhaps I first need to stop posting and get your funding cut off for lack of action, and for that to happen.

  • Well, the fact is that I don’t know what you think I admitted to, and I’m sure you’re wrong about whatever twisted fantasy you have about it. Nobody’s paying me to post, but you should see the glee in my face when I see the words “Lowell Hubbs replied to you” on my Notifications page. I love making a fool of you. I love watching you trot out your incoherent rants. I love exposing you as the purple alien from Neptune that you have confirmed yourself to be.

  • Evading questions is more your game, Zblorgon.

  • Evidence, Ron.

  • sabelmouse

    indeed.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Once again Lowell seeks me out and destroys his made-up claims that people are antagonizing him.

    Your whole argument appears to be “this number is too big to be an upper bound or reasonable approximation” but you haven’t supplied any evidence to support that.

  • Jesus baby

    “Beyond delusional” in Hubbs-speak.

  • Jesus baby

    Was it a $20 gift certificate for the Mercola online store? Or do they give you cold, hard cash?

  • kfunk937

    Nah. I’d guess some discount BOGO coupons. Mercola doesn’t give anything away fer nuttin’.

    Pun intended.

  • Jesus baby

    “I just explained to you why that is a delusional claim.”
    No, Lowell, you just expressed your opinion. I have a much higher upvote percentage than you because my posts are way better. The people will notice that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not really. You generally make accusations and can’t support them. It’s pretty easy to find Lowell’s stream of insults and pretty easy to see me just calmly responding to his silliness. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your metaphor is still about harming interestingly. :-)

  • evedawn

    Healthcare should care for our health. Focus on making our bodies stronger to resist not just chickenpox but daily, continuous attacks on our immune systems by pathogens etc. Attacking disease by injecting manipulated viruses, chemicals and other toxins is really bad and outdated science. Time to wake up.

  • sabelmouse

    the very concept of attack and conquer is wrong and outdated. but typically human.

  • JGC

    For example, the way getting the mild disease ‘measles’ ‘strengthens the immune system such that the person infected becomes more vulnerable to all other infectious diseases for a period of two years thereafter…

    Oh, wait.

    Your evidence that ‘a good diet’ is as effective at reducing one’s risk of contracting an infectious disease following exposure as is prophylactic vaccination against that disease would be what, exactly, Ron?

    You do actually have some–right?

  • Ron Roy

    Vitamin A
    “For over 100 years, there has been a strong association
    with vitamin A deficiency and adverse measles outcomes, especially in
    young children. Has the time come for the medical community to recognize
    that any child presenting with measles complications should be given
    vitamin A and evaluated for overall nutritional status? If not, what has
    history taught us?”

    – Adrianne Bendich, 1992

    Measles – it’s a highly infectious disease we don’t think much about
    today. After all, a vaccine was developed 50 years ago that “defeated”
    the problem. [1] But wait… despite a measles vaccine being around for
    half a century, measles is still considered a major threat by health
    authorities.

    At its fifty year anniversary there were universal positive accolades
    in the media. Anyone who questions the value of measles vaccines or any
    vaccine is quickly pilloried because the science of the measles vaccine
    is supposedly beyond reproach. Proponents say that only
    conspiratorialists and lunatics would question it.

    But, there are facts regarding the history of measles that almost
    never reach the light of day. Here are 14 things you may not have been
    told by public health officials, your doctor, or the media.

    1. Measles death rate had declined by almost 100% before the use of a measles vaccine

    During the 1800s, measles was a notable cause of death. Epidemics
    occurred every few years causing a large influx of children into local
    hospital wards. In Glasgow, England From 1807-1812 measles accounted for
    11% of all deaths. In the years from 1867-1872, 49% of children in a
    Paris orphanage who developed measles died. [2] Starting in the mid to
    late-1800s deaths from all infectious diseases, including measles, began
    to decline. By the 1930s in England and the United States the chance of
    dying from measles had dropped to 1-2 percent.

    A killed measles virus (KMV) vaccine came into use in the United
    States in 1963. What you may not have heard, is that by 1963, the death
    rate from measles in the United States had already dropped by
    approximately 98%. [3]

    Some New England states had no deaths at all from measles. During
    this year, the whole of New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont,
    Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut) had only 5 deaths
    attributed to measles. Deaths from asthma were 56 times greater,
    accidents 935 times greater, motor vehicle accidents 323 times greater,
    other accidents 612 times greater, and heart disease 9,560 times
    greater. [4]

    In England the measles vaccine was introduced in 1968. By this point
    measles deaths were extremely rare. The actual death rate from measles
    in England had fallen by an almost full 100%. [5]

    2. The 1963 measles vaccine caused a severe disease called atypical measles

    Historically, measles would produce a high fever, cough, and measles rash.

    …almost suddenly, coryza [head cold], with red and watery
    eyes, and photophobia present themselves, closely followed by
    troublesome cough and corresponding feverishness reaching 103º and 104º
    F. (39.4º and 40º C.) [6]

    The early vaccine that was experimented with was a weakened, live
    measles vaccine. This vaccine resulted in a much higher fever in about
    half the children that received it. Meaning, they had a 106 degree fever
    as opposed to the 103 degree fever they might have had with natural
    measles.

    However the vaccine produced a modified measles rash in
    48 per cent of the children who received it and fever as high as 106
    degrees in 83 per cent of them. [7]

    To temper this problem, measles-specific antibody was given in the
    form of immune serum globulin alongside the live vaccines. This practice
    blunted the obvious reactions (fever and rash) to the live virus in the
    vaccine, but had serious potential consequences.

    The data show a highly significant correlation between
    lack of measles exanthema [rash] and auto-immune diseases, seborrhoeic
    skin diseases, degenerative diseases of the bones and certain tumors . .
    . We think that the rash is caused by a cell mitigated immune reaction,
    which destroys the cells infected with the measles virus. If this is
    correct, the missing exanthema may indicate that intracellular virus
    components have escaped neutralization during the acute infection. This
    may later lead to the aforementioned diseases . . . The presence of
    specific antibodies at the time of infection interferes with the normal
    immune response against the measles virus, in particular with the
    development of the specific cell mitigated immunity (and/or cytotoxic
    reactions). The intracellular measles virus can then survive the acute
    infection and cause diseases manifesting in the adult age. [8]

    In other words, suppressing the measles rash and fever, which may
    have seemed like a good idea at the time, interfered with the normal
    immune response. Interfering with the body’s immune response, in attempt
    to compensate for a worse vaccine reaction, may have resulted in future
    problems in the adults that received this treatment. The use of immune
    serum globulin was recommended to be discontinued in 1968, but continued
    long after that. [9] This practice continues to this day.

    For the rest of the history click here:http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2014/06/24/measles-and-measles-vaccines-fourteen-things-to-consider-by-roman-bystrianyk-co-author-dissolving-illusions-disease-vaccines-and-the-forgotten-history/

  • AutismDadd

    You have no credibility, so your opinion should just circle the bowl and disappear.

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. Denial as usual…boring!

  • AutismDadd

    Oh, by your own admission there IS evidence…thanks. Could we strengthen weak evidence with more research? Lets try.

  • AutismDadd

    I do like coffee, date squares and frozen yogart. Guilty as charged

  • AutismDadd

    Not deflecting just not interested in a yawn fest.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ad hominem attack. You, Ron and Lowell have – as noticed by a number of people. Have a curious tendency to make allusions to harming folk.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Except that you’ve supported my statement with your post…and Lowell of course supports my statements every day. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh, by your own admission there IS evidence…thanks

    Never said otherwise. That doesn’t change that your demands for people to accept these ideas is asking people to be gullible.

  • Ron Roy

    That got the measles 5 if I remember correctly. Number of good friends I had at the time 8 or so. People I consider close friends now 20. Hope that answers your question.Number of people in my home town I know by name? At least 100. People in my home town that know me thousands.

  • AutismDadd

    You’re blaming me for your soiled diapers?

  • Jonathan Graham

    …alcohol is simply a reasonable possibility.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It is deflecting. Sorry.

  • Jesus baby

    A-dad, when you were toilet training, were there times when mommy was…bad?

  • AutismDadd

    Tell us why shill Mike

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your information isn’t going to be perfect and neither is your memory. But let’s assume they’re ok. Is anything that doesn’t affect a hundred people perfectly safe?

  • AutismDadd

    Hey Buzz tells us about your friend’s outcomes. If you have friends.

  • AutismDadd

    I’ve read that some research suspects NOT having these MILD KILLER DISEASES may result in other health conditions like getting buzz cuts

  • AutismDadd

    Probably several times more that you.

  • AutismDadd

    But how many died from that God Awful Chicken Pox DISEASE!!!!!

  • AutismDadd

    Are you denying good health has no impact on how well a person handles an infection? Because if you are, I have a Duh Moment of the Day to award you/

  • AutismDadd

    Well said. Its why War and violence haven’t been abandoned.

  • Ron Roy

    ”The vaccine gives you 6 live rounds in the chamber Mickey.” FTFY

  • AutismDadd

    44% effective, but caused 161 deaths. Wow sounds real safe and effective.

  • AutismDadd

    What Mike is really saying: I Mike Stevens expects readers to IGNORE the DEATHS. As we see Mike (or whoever he is) does not address the deaths at all. Why not Mike? Should products capable of causing death really be “recommended” by government health agencies for children? Doesn’t seem quite right to me, but then I’m not a sociopath.

  • AutismDadd

    I think you mean your Mommy, the one that had you anally.

  • AutismDadd

    I feel a yawn coming on. I hate when that happens

  • AutismDadd

    So you see alcohol on my list? What’s your drug of choice, MATH?

  • AutismDadd

    Only 161 DEATHS? Where can I get one, death of a child will give me a 1 in 3 chance of compensation from the NVICP. But they cap death at $250,000. But hey, better than a kick in the ass.

  • AutismDadd

    Insults? I speak the truth at all times.

  • AutismDadd

    Really pulling at straws aren’t you?

  • He’s already admitted it, no use denying the obvious.

  • Jonathan Graham

    LOL, you must be trying really hard to self-soothe today.

  • Jonathan Graham

    From Chicken pox? I only can clearly remember one case other than my own and they had some scaring. I moved out of my childhood neighborhood when I was four. Not long after I had it. Later on I’ve seen lots of people harmed from shingles. Including some facial paralysis.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You mean a deflection?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well a) you’re hardly very credible and b) the point was to talk about what was plausible. Which alcohol was. You’ve probably had some counseling and you probably need more by-the-by.

  • Just keep making it up as you go and lying. It is all just so impressive.

  • Everyone can clearly see who upvoted your posts and as a fact they are all known shills. You can deny it all you want. As a fact not a single real person, and as to the typically common reader, that has upvoted you, anywhere. There is obviously absolutely nothing you will not lie about.

  • Mercola likely doesn’t even know who I am, much more sends me anything at all. How much is the connected funder that goes by the posted name David, paying you to reply post here? You keep refusing to answer that question.

  • Why even bother replying? You already explained who and what you are. Your twisted lies won’t do you any good.

  • Jesus baby

    The people who upvote me aren’t real people? Are they space aliens? They’re among us?!

  • Jesus baby

    I didn’t say he knew you personally, Lowell. You’re just one of the minions. Small fry.

  • So being you just simply evaded my reply, and changed the subject matter, in not responding to my actual post; obviously that means that I destroyed any argument that you had above in regard to the federal vaccine court. Instead, you just simply created another mindless post that reads again just like the other 300 crazed, and as well evasion and deception filled posts that you previously posted before. No one on any honest and actually thinking level wants to read any more of your trash.

  • Really? And where did I admit to being a known purple alien from Neptune/Zblorgon? Go ahead, copy and paste the post right here? You just said that my denial of it is a twisted lie. So prove it?

  • Deny it all you want, sicko. You know what you said.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Uh no Lowell, that’s literally what your argument appears to be. I can pick out every line that says what I say you say in detail. It’s interesting you can’t describe how what I’ve presented differs from whatever you imagine your argument.

    So now all you can do is avoid the argument with more namecalling and vague assertions.

  • Well, for the Mercola site to be sending me cash or gift certificates, someone would have to know of me there; and as well my address. Who do you suggest that is? And it is you that is actually not anyone, so called Jesus baby. Nothing but a cowardly shill with no name or identity. I was thinking that you and your connected posting shills should all have new names. You could use the character names, dooshie 1, 2, 3, 4; and so on. Or perhaps, douchiest dooshie #1 would work well for you.

  • They are known vaccine shills, fool. Anyone that has been around this situation for any period of time, knows that. You will see those same character names multiple places on the blogging and posting internet.

  • You have already lost the argument on every front. And still you continue on with your level of obvious craziness and twisted mad man insanity.

  • Jesus baby

    Well you were the one claiming you couldn’t be a Mercola shill because HE doesn’t know you. Obviously SOMEONE there knows your name and address – it’s just not the fraud himself. As I said, you’re small fry.

  • Jesus baby

    I’m asking if you think “vaccine shills” are people or space aliens, Lowell. And how’s that shill investigation going? Any updates from your people?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I can clearly point out the exact places where what I’ve said matches what you’ve posted. You can’t do this with any of your claims about what I’ve posted in these past few posts. So while nobody lost – you have certainly run away. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    For over 100 years, there has been a strong association with vitamin A deficiency and adverse measles outcomes

    It’s always interesting that people want to say “strong association” but can’t seem to produce statistical work to support that. Which means that when they say: “strong association” they just mean “I like to think that.”

  • And you continue on with evading the issue, and in simply changing the subject matter that is on the table here.

    So, you are not going to further disagree with what I stated; and because you know very well that I am right. And the entire bogus claim that you had regarding you’re having more existing upvotes than me, or in fact anyone else here, (and thus as to your claim that-that has largely adding to your perceived credibility with the readers), is and was nothing more than a BULL DUST and fairy tales story. You might as well just admit it.

  • JGC

    Our discussion doesn’t address how well people handle an infection once acquired, does it? We’ve instead been discussing preventing people from becoming infected by means of prophylactic vaccination.

  • First of all you never had any evidence at all for your claim. You simply made it up. Where is the evidence that I was mailed anything at all? Perhaps I drove to the Mercola mansion and picked up my $20 gift certificate, myself? Do you see how dumb you are, and how dumb your claims are? How about as well, do you see how dumb that all makes you look? And here you are still claiming to it, and still arguing about it, and in making the same dumb and unsubstantiated claims that you made, and the same thing as from many articles ago. How desperate is that?

    Go ahead and take any of Mercola’s articles and present with it here directly. Then as well outline, address, and disprove anything at all that is stated in the article. Prove to me your said accusation that Dr Mercola, is a fraud? You can’t do it; prove me wrong? Lets see additionally how much bigger of a fool you can make of yourself here; get started. You see, all you can ever do is throw your false accusations at the wall, in hopes that somehow it makes you look smart; and all while just the opposite is actually happening. The so called small fry, is actually you.

  • JGC

    Ron, you’re again switching topics to treatment options once an infectious disease has been acquired. We’re discussing the relative risk of preventing infections from being acquired by means of routine childhood vaccination.

    Kindly return the goal posts to their starting position.

  • Ok smart guy, get to doing that and putting forth your nonsense. Lets see just how much more twisted you can make this? The real person actually running away from vaccine information and the questions posted, has always been you; and it always will be you.

  • Jesus baby

    You’re the one claiming I’m a shill and that you’re involved with some sort of half-a$$ed shill investigation or something. Lol right.

  • Jesus baby

    You post Mercola advertisements on this site, Lowell. Yet you call everyone who disagrees with you (which is most people) a shill. Do you see THEM posting advertisements?

  • Again you are misinforming and lying. You take replies on subject matters from many articles ago, and then you attempt to just simply misrepresent it all as you choose to, and need to. Again, the issue brought up on that article was one about if or not sunscreens are needed and as well a healthy and wise choice. The issue surrounded the needed absorption of vitamin D from the sun. That debate moved on to the issue of sunscreens, and that many commercial sunscreens contain toxic chemicals that are or may be harmful to human health, and your skin. Moderate sun exposure is actually good, and does provide a person with vitamin D, so thus blocking all the suns rays with sunscreen as well may not be good advise. The only thing that I posted regarding Mercola was that in the fact that comparatively Mercola products provide quality sunscreens that do not have the typically known toxic and harmful ingredients in them that other common commercially sold sun screen products do. There was no other way to provide that information than to post a link to those said products. Quite obviously that is NOT the same thing as deliberately advertising products for Dr Mercola. Now, how many more times are you going to continue to lie about this, and misrepresent your said claim? How as well deceptive, twisted, and desperate does that show you to be? How credible do you look right now? There is not one single word of anything that you post, that should ever be believed by anyone.

  • Jesus baby

    “The only thing that I posted regarding Mercola was that in the fact that comparatively Mercola products provide quality sunscreens that do not have the typically known toxic and harmful ingredients in them that other common commercially sold sun screen products do.”
    You posted a Mercola sunscreen advertisement with links to his store.

  • Judith

    I remember getting chicken pox and feeling thrilled I was getting some time off school I don’t remember it being any worse than a cold. Unless a child is malnourished the chance of getting adverse effects is close to zero.

  • Judith

    “Prior to the universal varicella vaccination program, 95% of adults experienced natural chickenpox (usually as school aged children)—these cases were usually benign and resulted in long term immunity. This high percentage of individuals having long term immunity has been compromised by mass vaccination of children which provides at best 70 to 90% immunity that is temporary and of unknown duration—shifting chickenpox to a more vulnerable adult population where chickenpox carries 20 times more risk of death and 15 times more risk of hospitalization compared to children. Add to this the adverse effects of both the chickenpox and shingles vaccines as well as the potential for increased risk of shingles for an estimated 30 to 50 years among adults.”

  • Judith

    Everything Lowell has posted is 100% true. Constantly repeating the word lies is not going to make you anymore believable.

  • Yeeaaahh, suuuure. Lowell and reality parted ways a long time ago, sister.

  • Anybody with two brain cells to rub together can make a fool of you, Lowell. Your delusional bluster and evasion aren’t fooling anybody. It’s very obvious to any rational person that you are unable to even string two coherent thoughts together, let alone present or support an argument.

    You can copy and paste, but you don’t have the intellectual capacity to understand the ideas. Your mind is unable to organize concepts in a useful way. You have no ability to think or learn. You are unable to grasp ideas or sentences that you don’t already agree with. Your language skills are limited to denial and reciting your list of insults. Every post you make illustrates that you fail to exist as a thinking being.

    I’d usually feel bad about being so blunt, but in your case it’s like insulting a computer program. I don’t think you have a mind, per se, but a conspiracy theory program hosted in a substandard meat computer.

  • Lets simplify some basic truths, and see if you can respond to this in regard to who is actually being rational or not, here. You will need to provide a direct response.

    I have not been vaccinated in over 4 decades. Millions of adults residing in the US alone have never been re-vaccinated since childhood, and if so it was very minimally, and certainly they were not re-vaccinated for most of the known childhood illnesses.

    Vaccines do not provide increased antibody immunity protection for life, and as for some illnesses natural immunity does provide that said protection. In fact vaccine derived immunity if any will wane and become nonexistent in a number of years, more or less depending on the individual.

    You claim that vaccine derived herd immunity must exist to control and eradicate these said illnesses; and which you call horrible and to be fear mongered about, diseases. With this said, where does your so called vaccine derived herd immunity exist? It obvious does not exist, and it would be impossible for it to exist.

    With that said, and being that only the school children are vaccinated, why then are not such as polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and diphtheria, etc; or even small pox returning and infecting the adult population with significant and if not massive numbers of individuals getting sick with those illnesses, and with many dying?

    This would suggest that vaccines actually did not play as significant a role in so called VPD reduction and eradication as we have been told that they did. As well if vaccines have, can, and do actually eradicate illness, then why have not the measles and pertussis vaccines yet eradicated those illnesses, and in all the years since a vaccine was developed?

    Do you see anything wrong with this picture, and anything at all to question in it and as to it? In your pro-vax world you demand that there has never been anything to consider, and nothing to question.

    In fact the vaccine risk issue as well can be properly weighed as to the risk verses the benefits if all vaccine injuries and caused death are simply blown off as unproven coincidences in regard to any possible vaccine or multiple injected vaccine causation. The current vaccine injury risk situation as to the current number of vaccines given and the number of injected doses given, is in and at this day and time, so serious that vaccine efficacy questions are at a point no longer even being considered in the risk ratio question. Most parents who have done the independent research and fully understand this situation, as well now say that they would rather risk any such illness, verses taking the chance on their child or teen being vaccine injured, and with the possibility of even resulting death. As to the truth and reality of this, they are exactly right. But to understand that you must get honest about the known and obvious risks. You refuse to do that, and as well as most pro-vaccine advocates.

    So rationalize what I just stated here Ken S. and Jonathan Graham; and give us your direct reply in regard to how you think this rationalization I just made, is somehow and somewhere, wrong? Personal attacks do not qualify as answers.

    The False Theory of Vaccine Derived – Herd Immunity
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-false-theory-of-vaccine-derived—herd-immunity.html

  • Eeeeww. Oh wow. Anyone that does that and regardless of the reason explained to is then automatically branded as a salesman for Dr. Mercola, and receiving kick backs like money and/or gift certificates in the mail. That’s a direct conflict of interest, and thus anything that they posted is immediately disqualified as non credible. And a person like you so called Jesus baby and with no identity at all; certainly you would have no conflicts of interest, and to even think that you are being hypocritical, would put you on the whack and quack job crazy conspiracy theorists list. Do you see the twisted insanity and the obvious level of make it up as you go desperation in your posts, yet Jb?

  • Unlike you, anything I have stated is actually a fact, and it wasn’t stated in any worded terms such as that.

  • I don’t need to rationalize it. It’s false. Your positions are based on lies and obsolete, debunked, or trash “science.”

    Many vaccines do confer lifelong immunity, like yellow fever, hepatitis B, and measles. Others do not, like pertussis and diphtheria. Other vaccines haven’t haven’t been used long enough to determine how long the immunity lasts. “Natural immunity” isn’t necessarily permanent, either.

    Where does vaccine-derived herd immunity exist? It exists everywhere there is a high rate of vaccine-derived immunity. It exists in most industrialized countries. Vaccine-derived herd immunity is why it’s rare to see diseases like measles and chickenpox in the developed world. Vaccine-derived herd immunity is what allowed polio and smallpox to be driven to the brink of eradication.

    Vaccine-preventable diseases aren’t ravaging the adult population because much of the adult population is permanently immune from most of them, and vaccination has drastically reduced the number of people who can catch them and carry them to others. That’s the herd immunity part. By the way, the reason smallpox isn’t coming back is that vaccination eradicated it. Permanently.

    Vaccines do have risks, but the benefits vastly outweigh them. Vaccine injuries are terrible, but they don’t spread from person to person. Diseases do. Vaccines confer long-term or lifelong immunity that shuts the door on diseases the kill and maim. They protect billions of people from suffering and carrying that suffering to others. Yes, they do cause injuries in rare cases, and that’s why we need a fair court system to compensate them for doing the right thing.

    What I see wrong with this picture is that your entire argument is based on lies and denial of the simple facts in front of you. What I see wrong with this picture is that you’re just going to stick your fingers in your ears and start insulting me.

    EDIT: Take it easy with the damn adverbs and adverbial phrases. You cram so many of them in your sentences that they stop making sense. At least use some punctuation if you’re going to do that.

  • Ron Roy

    I’m not moving the goal posts. Vitamin A will prevent or at least ameliorate the symptoms of measles.So if vitamin A levels are sufficiently high enough it acts as a prophylactic.

  • Ron Roy

    None. They were all glad to get it. Anything to keep from going to school.

  • Ron Roy

    Johnny I know you have a hard time understanding this but.People that have a good healthy diet have nothing to fear from most diseases. It’s that easy Johnny. Good nourishing food = Good health.

  • Jonathan Graham

    10,169 out of 15,312 petitions that have been adjudicated in that federal vaccine court, have been dismissed without compensation. You call that a portion?

    It is a portion by definition. So the only thing you’re doing here is saying: “It’s too big” without any rational reason.

    And you claim that 10,169 filed cases in that court for vaccine injury, actually had no merit?

    Again, an appeal to bigness, as if there had never been nor ever could be 10,000 filed cases without merit.

    How many vaccine injury claims do you think are never filled, and by parents far to busy and pre-occupied with caring for their vaccine injured and disabled child?

    Appeal that there might be reasons to think the number should be larger – which again is an appeal to “bigness”.

    How about the parents as well that possibly do not even know the federal vaccine court exists?

    Same here.

    How about as well the parents that actually believed their pharma schooled and brainwashed doctor, and as to that vaccine providers claim that the condition of their child, was not related to a vaccine, or multiple injected vaccines?

    Again you believe these things have a mitigating effect on a number that you already consider to be “too big” so this does nothing for your argument. It doesn’t make the case that it is too big because you have simply presumed that. You are, in effect begging the question

    How about as well considering the number of parents that went to the federal vaccine courts website and read the dismal statistics data, and which shows literally the odds of winning a compensated settlement; and then decided that it was or may not be worth their time, time taken away from work, and the initial out off pocket expense that it would take to file a claim?

    Again, this is saying “it should be bigger” however that does nothing for your argument which is effectively “it’s too big”.

    [Since 1988, over 17,732 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27- year time period, 15,312 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,143 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,169 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.5 billion.]

    Again this doesn’t make your argument either.

    So, do you have an argument that isn’t just “it’s too big” Lowell?

  • Ron Roy

    Johnny maybe you should talk to the Helen Keller Foundation because according to you they have it all wrong.
    http://www.hki.org/sites/default/files/styles/adaptive/public/images/2014/11/Malezi_Bora_Services_Kenya_31-VAS.jpg?itok=Pg1ltRdk

    The Challenge

    According to the World Health Organization, an estimated 250 million
    pre-school children are vitamin A deficient. This silent syndrome
    compromises immune system function, leaving young children unable to
    fight common childhood infections such as measles or diarrhea. Vitamin A
    deficiency is also the leading cause of preventable childhood blindness
    in developing countries, with up to 500,000 children going blind
    because of it each year. In addition, half of these children will die
    within a year of losing their sight.

    Our Solution

    We partner with governments, the private sector and other charities
    throughout Africa and Asia to ensure that health systems include vitamin
    A supplementation—a cost-effective and life-saving intervention for children six months to five years old—as
    part of regular wellness practices for impoverished communities. Each
    year, we reach 45 million African children under five with high dosage
    vitamin A supplements.

    Vitamin A is an essential nutrient needed for vision, growth, development, and a healthy immune system.

    For more than 40 years, Helen Keller International has been a leader
    in designing, implementing, and monitoring programs that ensure annual
    delivery of vitamin A to vulnerable populations worldwide. In addition
    to vitamin A supplementation, we use a multi-program strategy that
    includes the promotion of breastfeeding, maternal and child nutrition
    education, fortification of staple foods, and globally
    recognized family-led agricultural programs designed to improve access
    to vitamin A-rich foods and make them part of daily diets.

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=Helen+Keller+foundation+and+vitamin+A&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ron, you know you’re cornered. You can either admit that 100 people is not enough to determine that something is or is not harmless and thus refute your own argument or make a claim you know is ridiculous that anything that harms <1% of the population is perfectly safe.

    Since your'e stuck you attempt to deflect. I shut you down and it's not even 10 am. :-)

  • Ron Roy

    You have it backwards again Jesus baby everyone ( except your co -workers ) disagrees with you not Lowell,

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again you choose your evidence by outcome rather than quality and that’s part of my point. What I said was people say stuff like “For hundreds of years we have known X” but produce nothing. The statement was silly on the face of it. In 1917 the number of well controlled larger scale clinical trials that were done or could be done were hardly large.

    With regard to measles the evidence appears at best mixed. Cochrane said:

    No overall significant reduction in mortality with vitamin A therapy for children with measles was found. However two doses reduced overall and pneumonia-specific mortality in children aged less than two years.

  • Jesus baby

    Mercola shill. You even admit it.

  • Jesus baby

    So how is the investigation progressing? When will we see the evidence? (we won’t)

  • Jesus baby

    Lol you mean you and A-dad?

  • Ron Roy

    Complications are more likely in children with a poor immune system
    (such as those with leukaemia or HIV), those who are malnourished,
    children aged under 5 years and adults. Many malnourished children in
    the world die when they get measles, usually from a secondary lung
    infection (pneumonia).

  • Jonathan Graham

    Johnny since the children who do die from the measles die from pneumonia which Vitamin A prevents

    The evidence for that hypothesis isn’t very good. Perhaps you should read over this bit again:

    However two doses reduced overall and pneumonia-specific mortality in children aged less than two years.

    Can you see a problem with believing that supports “Vitamin A prevents people from dying of measles” from that statement? My guess is you can’t.

    Maybe a higher dose or just a plain healthy vitamin A ,nutrient rich diet would prevent the measles itself.

    Why would it?

    ‘Complications are more likely in children with a poor immune system

    SHOCK!!

    those who are malnourished

    Generally having less food than you need to operate isn’t the same as having a specific deficiency and as already demonstratedthe evidence for your hypothesis is weak. :-)

  • JGC

    Citations need: provide evidence demonstrating that at ‘sufficiently high levels’ vitamin A is as or more effective at preventing the measles infection following exposure as is the MMR vaccine.

  • shay simmons

    Well…there is a strong association with vitamin A deficiency and adverse measles outcomes, but only in populations that had a vitamin A deficiency to begin with. Your average American or Canadian (yes, I know, I’m leaving out the rest of the first world) child does not have a vitamin A deficiency.

    “The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends administration of an oral dose of 200,000 IU (or 100,000 IU in infants) of vitamin A per day for two days to children with measles in areas where vitamin A deficiency may be present.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11869601

  • AutismDadd

    And profits to vaccine makers in those days of killer diseases was likely what they claim to day as such little profit its hardly worthwhile. Recently I read about a guy retiring from a Canadian Pharma Company. He was its head, and will receive a small token of 189 million upon retirement. See, they don’t make any money. And Volkswagen in the news. Fines of 19.2 billion in the USA alone. Of course no jail time for owners or employees. Typical CORPORATE LAW that highlights why Big Pharma gets away with so much.

  • AutismDadd

    Me too. I felt odd being off school when I wasn’t feeling sick.

  • AutismDadd

    Nice deflection shill. I knew you’d sidestepped and do the weasel dance instead of answer.

  • AutismDadd

    Don’t worry about me, worry about your next hair cut.

  • Jesus baby

    I previously suggested to Hubbs he stop using adverbs altogether, but to no avail.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well you have probably had a significantly harder life than I have. Probably a part of how you justify your treatment of others. Another part has to do with imagined slights and skewed standards. These help you find a rationalization for trying to hurt people that way you don’t have to admit hurting people makes you feel better.

    Compared to all of that. My hair isn’t really that important.

  • Ron Roy

    The National Institute of Health reports on a study identifying
    vitamin A deficiencies as a risk factor for serious cases of measles.
    The World Health Organization recommends administering an oral dose of
    200,000 IU of vitamin A to adults and 100,000 IU to infants for 2 days
    in areas with vitamin A deficiency. [7]

    Measles is generally a very mild childhood disease, while the MMR
    vaccine is linked to serious health consequences. Using vitamin A to
    treat and prevent very rare cases of serious measles is a much safer
    health protocol than dangerous mass vaccination programs. [8]
    https://vactruth.com/2016/09/24/nutrition-beats-vaccines/
    ”Although measles is rarely a dangerous disease in developed nations
    where proper nutrition and access to healthcare are available, in third
    world nations where pregnant mothers and their babies are malnourished,
    measles can be a serious disease. However, a measles vaccine may not be
    sufficient to protect children from excess morbidity and mortality.

    Today, most developing nations require their infants to receive
    several inoculations, including a measles vaccine at 9 months of age.
    They have very high vaccine coverage rates (a percentage of the target
    population that has been vaccinated), yet their infant mortality rates
    are dreadfully unacceptable. For example, in 2011, Gambia, a poor
    country in Africa, required its infants to receive multiple vaccines,
    vaccinated 90% to 96% of its infants (91% received measles vaccines),
    yet 58 of every 1000 infants still died before their first birthdays.
    Ghana also required its infants to receive several vaccines, vaccinated
    91% to 98% of its infants (91% received measles vaccines) yet also had a
    dismal infant mortality rate: 52 of every 1000 infants died before
    their first birthdays.(16)

    These examples appear to confirm that high vaccination rates are not
    sufficient to reduce complications and deaths from measles and other
    causes. Clean water, proper nutrition, good sanitation, and easy access
    to health care are the most important factors to improve infant
    mortality rates in unclean, poorly nourished, and impoverished areas of
    the world.(17-19)

    Malnutrition is a global problem and may be the most significant
    factor requiring immediate attention. It has been linked with a
    diminished immune function. A weakened immune system often results in an
    increased susceptibility to infections.(18) Even mild infections have
    adverse effects on nutritional status. Conversely, almost any
    nutritional deficiency will lower resistance to disease.

    The importance of proper nutrition cannot be overemphasized. For
    example, several studies have shown that high doses of vitamin A are
    protective against complications and deaths from measles. A recent paper
    published by the International Journal of Epidemiology found that
    vitamin A treatment for measles recommended by the World Health
    Organization reduced measles mortality by 62%.(20) A randomized clinical
    trial published in the British Medical Journal found that the death
    rate in children under 2 years of age declined by 87% in the group that
    received vitamin A supplementation when compared to the group that only
    received routine treatment.”

    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/outbreaks-measles-should-we-be-concerned

  • AutismDadd

    Oh OK Doctor Fraud…oops I mean Freud

  • AutismDadd

    Just when I think you’ve reached you dumbest you lower the bar.

  • Ron Roy

    100% ?No vaccine is 100% protective.

  • AutismDadd

    A deflectyawn

  • AutismDadd

    So you died from Chicken pox but lived too. Confusing. Guess they don’t make KILLER DISEASES like they used to.

  • AutismDadd

    Fine that’s one check mark for AD

  • AutismDadd

    Better change your diaper again.

  • Ron Roy

    ”However two doses reduced overall and pneumonia-specific mortality in children aged less than two years.”. Johnny the vast majority of the people who die from the measles actually die of pneumonia therefor the death reduction from taking vitamin A is very significant.

  • 655321

    Wow. Derp award. Hands down.

  • 655321

    Wow, thanks again for the laughs!!!

  • 655321

    soooo, is your posting here part of your “self soothing”…..? Creepy.

  • 655321

    Doubling down on dumb seems to be the MO of the pharma pushers.

  • AutismDadd

    Would you believe I have no respect for them?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Glad you can admit you’re deflecting.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Explaining how diseases can be deadly but not unquestionably fatal to you is just like explaining no-fault insurance to you. You have a definition which is wrong (or poor, or not the one the speaker was using) and you do anything to preserve your cognitive dissonance.

  • Jonathan Graham

    IMHO you are looking at a dose that doesn’t follow a dose/response curve. Which is only statistically significant in a specific subgroup derived from at best moderate evidence. So it’s mixed.

    You don’t know what any of the words I said mean and you’re not interested in understanding and your only response will be to google something that you agree with usually a quote rather than science. If it’s science you generally haven’t read it and you’ve certainly never read the supporting material.

    So you don’t really have much of a rebuttal.

  • AutismDadd

    Wow. What garbage. Supposition, exaggeration, and B.S. on a bun

  • AutismDadd

    Wow. An emotional outburst. Feeling stressed out are we?

  • AutismDadd

    Be sure to get that gasket replaced.

  • AutismDadd

    Doesn’t matter. Its the adverse events that forced the USA to create VAERS and NVICP, not the number of vaccines.

  • Aww :-(

  • AutismDadd

    True. VAERS and NVICP screw victims over and use forms of disclaimer to make it seem lawful , when it actually promotes and supports some of the most heinous medical outcomes one can imagine.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea Buzz have a party and celebrate the heinous victimization of children.

  • AutismDadd

    Really? His response was to you arriving on the scene. Nice try but lying isn’t working for you.

  • AutismDadd

    Leaves you out. Your cell is LONELY

  • AutismDadd

    I take that as a yes.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No it’s entertainment but I wouldn’t be so down on AutismDadd if I were you. Lots of peoples behaviors simply develop organically. There were probably some selection pressures to make his as socially maladjusted as they are.

  • AutismDadd

    Oh brother. Wrong again Dr Sigmund Fraud

  • AutismDadd

    Juvenile Buzz

  • Jonathan Graham

    Doesn’t matter

    Sorry but again you’re wrong. Just about everything can have adverse events. So the question is almost always a question of benefit vs. harm. A question you can’t really answer without knowing the number of doses. Read. Think. Post.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Another bad day? Perhaps you need to get some exercise. All this time in front of the computer isn’t doing you any good. After all, according to you – you’re on here pretty close to 24/7.

  • Jonathan Graham

    His response was to you arriving on the scene.

    So you think he’s deliberately behaving in an aggressive manner to drive me away from a public space? Isn’t that just saying you think he’s trying to harass me?

  • Jonathan Graham

    But you can’t say why or how. So again the evidence kind of argues against your position. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    You are the one who said you were deflecting.

  • Web Watchers

    They pay 75c into the fund??? Not taxpayers??? Not correct. Read the truth:

    The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) established this
    system, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP), in
    1988. NVICP is funded by a tax of $0.75 per vaccine dose, collected from
    vaccine manufacturers by the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

    We all know who pays the tax, and it is not the seller. (hint: it is the customer.)

  • NVICP is funded by a tax of $0.75 per vaccine dose, collected from
    vaccine manufacturers by the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

    Yeah, it’s the seller. You and I only pay for the NVICP in the sense that we pay all corporate taxes. The NVICP payments deny potential profits by diverting part of the chargeable price to the NVICP, while the chargeable price faces downward pressure from payers.

  • Web Watchers

    Potential profits? Of course they “lose” 75c for each of their million$ of dosages they sell each year and it hurts them right in their wallet so much for not pocketing another billion$. It’s not really that, but just part of their game. Understand mandatory: not out of the kindness of their hearts. On the contrary, out of their greed, they become the tax collectors as a deal that congress not hold them accountable or liable – follow the money, as they say, and look into the public records of corporate campaign contributions. They are in the highest of millions upon millions of dollars along with being in the most powerful and influential groups of lobbyists. It opens the doors to the brainwashing of the people to accepting the vaccine requirements, thereby creating another mandatory, the captive market of public school and secondary school students. Make new vaccines on the short test and approval (i.e. unsafe) and it creates million$ more for them as the number of vaccines and dosages have increased drastically in just a few decades. While you are researching the money issue, look up past employments of FDA and USDA officials. No surprise in the revelation of corruption.

  • So? The point is that they fund the NVICP, not that they don’t make a profit from selling life-saving medicines. Most companies make a lot more from sales than they pay out for liability.

  • You will never see the evidence other than the people you know and that you see disappearing, and you know that; and because you fully already know what is actually going on with this. What do you think of that…very SICK …Jesus baby?

  • And you just keep on lying about it all, and no matter what. At some point soon, I will have to disappear and cut off your main funding money.

  • That is right, almost all all of those 10,169 filed cases surely did have more than enough merit, or they obviously would not have been filed; you beyond sick, in denial, vile, and beyond inhumanly disgusting man.

    I have an expose here that you need to answer to.Can you do it? Or will you simply and just state again that you do not understand it, and that it is not defined again well enough and clear enough for you; and thus just simply again, evade it all?

    Lets simplify some basic vaccine risk, verses benefit truths.

    I personally have not been vaccinated in over 4 decades. I will never again be vaccinated and no matter what, and as long as the power within me to say no, exists. Vaccines historically and to the current day, are always more risk of harm done than any benefit, and that risk far more-so today than ever, and with the current number of vaccines and injected doses on the CDC vaccine schedule.

    Millions of adults residing in the US alone have never been re-vaccinated since childhood, and if so, it been very minimally, and certainly they were not re-vaccinated for most of the known so called vaccine preventable childhood illnesses.

    Vaccines do not provide increased antibody immunity protection for life, and as for some illnesses natural immunity does provide that said protection. In fact vaccine derived immunity if any will wane and become nonexistent in a number of years, more or less depending on the individual.

    The CDC claim is that vaccine derived herd immunity must exist to control and eradicate these said illnesses; and which they call horrible and to be fear mongered about, diseases. With this said, where does their so called vaccine derived herd immunity exist? It obvious does not exist, and it would be impossible for it to exist.

    With that said, and being that only the school children are vaccinated, why then are not such as polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and diphtheria, etc; or even small pox returning and infecting the adult population with significant and if not massive numbers of individuals getting sick with those illnesses, and with many dying?

    This would suggest that vaccines actually did not play as significant a role in so called VPD reduction and eradication as we have been told that they did. As well if vaccines have, can, and do actually eradicate illness, then why have not the measles and pertussis vaccines yet eradicated those illnesses, and in all the years since a vaccine was developed?

    Do you see anything wrong with this picture, and anything at all to question in it and as to it? In the pro-vax world they demand that there has never been anything to consider, and nothing to question. That trusting and sheeple mentality is what keeps the right questions from being asked.

    In fact the vaccine risk issue as well can be properly weighed as to the risk verses the benefits if all vaccine injuries and caused death are simply blown off as unproven coincidences in regard to any possible vaccine or multiple injected vaccine causation. The current vaccine injury risk situation as to the current number of vaccines given and the number of injected doses given, is in and at this day and time, so serious that vaccine efficacy questions are at a point and at this point no longer even being considered in the risk ratio question. Most parents who have done the independent research and fully understand this situation, as well now say that they would rather risk any such illness, verses taking the chance on their child or teen being vaccine injured, and with the possibility of even resulting death. As to the truth and reality of this, they are exactly right. But to understand that you must get do the independent and unbiased research and get honest about the known and obvious risks. This is the basic difference between the pro-vaccine truth camp and the pro-vaccine camp. They can call it anti-vaccine all they want, but for most it is only an issue of asking the question and in knowing what is the truth regarding actual current and historical vaccine efficacy; that and as well of course in asking what are the real level of vaccine risks verses benefit.

    The False Theory of Vaccine Derived – Herd Immunity
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-false-theory-of-vaccine-derived—herd-immunity.html

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    My response to Antonio Baduy Cámara, and the blog Skeptical Raptor, as to their response to 9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxer’s
    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Everyone can now clearly see that you are entirely lying, top to bottom. What do you think of that obvious outcome? Try it again. this is the very same and exact questions reworded, and so you can within your small and in denial mind, actually understand it better. Try it again, and because that reply was a complete and obvious fail; and straight on its face.

    Lets simplify some basic vaccine risk, verses benefit truths.

    I personally have not been vaccinated in over 4 decades. I will never again be vaccinated and no matter what, and as long as the power within me to say no, exists. Vaccines historically and to the current day, are always more risk of harm done than any benefit, and that risk far more-so today than ever, and with the current number of vaccines and injected doses on the CDC vaccine schedule.

    Millions of adults residing in the US alone have never been re-vaccinated since childhood, and if so, it been very minimally, and certainly they were not re-vaccinated for most of the known so called vaccine preventable childhood illnesses.

    Vaccines do not provide increased antibody immunity protection for life, and as for some illnesses natural immunity does provide that said protection. In fact vaccine derived immunity if any will wane and become nonexistent in a number of years, more or less depending on the individual.

    The CDC claim is that vaccine derived herd immunity must exist to control and eradicate these said illnesses; and which they call horrible and to be fear mongered about, diseases. With this said, where does their so called vaccine derived herd immunity exist? It obvious does not exist, and it would be impossible for it to exist.

    With that said, and being that only the school children are vaccinated, why then are not such as polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and diphtheria, etc; or even small pox returning and infecting the adult population with significant and if not massive numbers of individuals getting sick with those illnesses, and with many dying?

    This would suggest that vaccines actually did not play as significant a role in so called VPD reduction and eradication as we have been told that they did. As well if vaccines have, can, and do actually eradicate illness, then why have not the measles and pertussis vaccines yet eradicated those illnesses, and in all the years since a vaccine was developed?

    Do you see anything wrong with this picture, and anything at all to question in it and as to it? In the pro-vax world they demand that there has never been anything to consider, and nothing to question. That trusting and sheeple mentality is what keeps the right questions from being asked.

    In fact the vaccine risk issue as well can be properly weighed as to the risk verses the benefits if all vaccine injuries and caused death are simply blown off as unproven coincidences in regard to any possible vaccine or multiple injected vaccine causation. The current vaccine injury risk situation as to the current number of vaccines given and the number of injected doses given, is in and at this day and time, so serious that vaccine efficacy questions are at a point and at this point no longer even being considered in the risk ratio question. Most parents who have done the independent research and fully understand this situation, as well now say that they would rather risk any such illness, verses taking the chance on their child or teen being vaccine injured, and with the possibility of even resulting death. As to the truth and reality of this, they are exactly right. But to understand that you must get do the independent and unbiased research and get honest about the known and obvious risks. This is the basic difference between the pro-vaccine truth camp and the pro-vaccine camp. They can call it anti-vaccine all they want, but for most it is only an issue of asking the question and in knowing what is the truth regarding actual current and historical vaccine efficacy; that and as well of course in asking what are the real level of vaccine risks verses benefit.

    The False Theory of Vaccine Derived – Herd Immunity
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-false-theory-of-vaccine-derived—herd-immunity.html

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

    My response to Antonio Baduy Cámara, and the blog Skeptical Raptor, as to their response to 9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxer’s
    http://www.vacfacts.info/my-response-to-antonio-baduy-caacutemara-and-the-blog-skeptical-raptor-as-to-their-response-to-9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Only in your beyond delusional mind. Do you have any more space alien stories for me? Lets see some more pictures of your existing head injury, and that you showed us all before?

  • Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true, Zblorgon. There’s nothing in my reply that’s false.

  • What, so you can be confused by images that are flipped horizontally? :-)

  • Wow are you dumb, and without any form of a reasonable reply. And in your mindless desperation still attempting to rehash your stupidity from a half dozen articles ago. Wow.

  • Hey, I’m not the one who was confused and stated that it’s impossible to flip an image horizontally. I’m not the one who declared that I’m two separate people with matching faces and scars on opposite sides of my head! That’s all on you, Zblorgon! :-)

  • It is all false, top to bottom, and that is why you truly need to go back and get it right. Lets see some more of your head injury pictures from what was it …5 or 6 articles ago? That is a pretty important thing to show people, you know? Like anyone cares. Do you see me posting about crazy space alien stories, and like you do? Who is the crazy one? Ok, I have to tell you ….Zblorgon doesn’t really exist, and it has been replaced with Paul Offit from the planet of for profit Gonzorola. Go figure. The Zeopanites are watching every move you make. They have your house bugged, and they can even talk to you. Take your ear plugs out and listen.

  • And you still have not proven your irrelevant point from what was it 5, 6, or 7 articles ago. How pathetic. The Zblorgon crew is tracking you tonight, so be careful. So lets see the pictures of your massive head injury again, and as if anyone cares, and as to its relevance regarding the existing vaccine truth? You are one STRANGE…DUCK.

  • Woah, now you’re threatening me? Sick, Zblorgon. That’s really sick.

  • If you want to see the pictures again, here they are! I’ve got two more from before they closed it up, but I’ve pixelated it for sharing.

    Here they are, because you asked: http://imgur.com/a/LrhrP

  • So did you almost entirely shave your eye brows off for the final healed up picture, and become younger? “LOL”. What kind a turkey posts this garbage?

  • It is what it is. And you know what it is. And if I am banned here, will I go on to cry some sort of river? Please do me the immense favor, and ban me from this hellish website, and with zero existing moderation. .

  • You as well didn’t tell anyone that those are not all the same images that you originally posted.

  • There is nothing confusing here about the fact that you are clearly and obviously …mentally …deranged. Take your sick game back to the twisted Skeptical Raptor blog that you came from, and stay there.

  • Different cameras, Lowell. Why do you think I look younger? I hope I looked healthier, at least!

  • Mike Stevens

    That’s the median protective efficacy of 2 doses against severe disease.
    You know what a median is, I trust?

  • Yaa, take another picture so I can use it in my file. Again, nothing explains what I just stated. And no one cares, you twisted and idiotic fool.

    Take the sheeple quiz.
    https://truthaholics.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/are-you-a-sheeple-take-the-quiz-and-find-out/

  • What do you want me to do in the new picture?

    I tried the sheeple quiz, but it mostly offers false blackwhite dichotomies, so I didn’t finish.

  • Jesus baby

    “You will never see the evidence…”
    Translation: You didn’t find any evidence.

  • Jesus baby

    So after admitting you’ve posted Mercola product advertisements on Vactruth you claim I’m lying about it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That is right, almost all all of those 10,169 filed cases surely did have more than enough merit, or they obviously would not have been filed;

    So you admit that almost your entire post was “it’s too big”. Perhaps you’ll apologize for your prior abuse? Since what I said was, as you agree exactly right.

    I have an expose here that you need to answer to.

    Nobody needs to answer you Lowell. You need to earn other peoples responses. Also “exposé” isn’t really a very good word to describe what you do.

    Can you do it? Or will you simply and just state again that you do not understand it, and that it is not defined again well enough and clear enough for you;

    Things that are not well defined or unclear to me, I will say are not well defined or unclear to me. Commenting on something I don’t understand isn’t something I’m interested in.

    Lets simplify some basic vaccine risk, verses benefit truths.

    I’ll say that at the outset that you’re probably going to abuse the term “truths”.

    Vaccines historically and to the current day, are always more risk of harm done than any benefit, and that risk far more-so today than ever, and with the current number of vaccines and injected doses on the CDC vaccine schedule.

    Please supply a mathematical calculation done by you – not just you pointing to something else and claiming it’s done there. Which demonstrates the likelihood of harm/benefit of vaccinating someone.

    Vaccines do not provide increased antibody immunity protection for life

    Some do, some are likely to and some effectively do.

    and as for some illnesses natural immunity does provide that said protection.

    Some do, some don’t, some likely do, some effectively do.

    In fact vaccine derived immunity if any will wane and become nonexistent in a number of years, more or less depending on the individual.

    All forms of immunity wane to a point that they are not effective. This depends on a number of factors.

    With this said, where does their so called vaccine derived herd immunity exist? It obvious does not exist, and it would be impossible for it to exist.

    The term ‘herd immunity’ can mean a number of things. It can represent a threshold of immunization which reduces the effective R0 to < 1 which means the disease will die out. It can also represent any effective reduction in R0. There are other definitions however the two I mentioned are good ones for discussing disease control and elimination. Clearly given these definitions herd immunity is possible to achieve.

    With that said, and being that only the school children are vaccinated

    This is not true. Some adults are vaccinated but there is probably less compliance.

    , why then are not such as polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and diphtheria, etc; or even small pox returning and infecting the adult population with significant and if not massive numbers of individuals getting sick with those illnesses, and with many dying?

    Because the vaccination of school children (and some vaccination of adults) is sufficiently strong to keep the effective average R0 close to 1.

    if vaccines have, can, and do actually eradicate illness, then why have not the measles and pertussis vaccines yet eradicated those illnesses, and in all the years since a vaccine was developed?

    If you mean globally, then it’s because the global average effective R0 => 1 or that it’s < 1 and not enough time has passed for the disease to die out or it's < 1 globally but there is too much homogeneity in the population distribution. If you mean locally (such as in the US) then it can be due to any of those reasons plus the fact that the US is an open system and the global state of the effective R0 is influencing things.

    Do you see anything wrong with this picture, and anything at all to question in it and as to it?

    Sure I’ve pointing things out. Your argument might go a bit better if you learned to define your terms and state your assumptions clearly.

    No offense but I think there’s more than enough to discuss there. So we can pick up talking about harm later.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I assume what is meant is median effectiveness. Even so there’s a difference between a vaccine being 100% effective against any disease and being 100% effective in preventing a specific disease outcome (or set of disease outcomes).

    Even if you want to read 100% as something arbitrarily close to 100% why would you care?

  • JGC

    How is noting an established fact–that measles infection attacks immune memory, significantly impairing the infected person’s ability to respond to subsequent exposures to infectious diseases for a period of two to three years–worthy of a derp award?

  • JGC

    I see you included the “[7]” but not the document it referenced. No wonder, as its title is <bold for emphasis) "Vitamin A for treating measles in children”. Again, we’re talking about recommendations for treatment after infection by measles, not reducing risk of infection occurring.
    Try to keep your focus on the claim you’ve been asked to defend.

  • JGC

    AD, your claim is that vaccination aren’t necessary as long as one eats a proper healthy diet –isn’t it? As vaccines act to prevent infections from occurring, providing evidence that after one is infected supplemental vitamin A may reduce the severity of the infection doesn’t address the issue on the table .
    Surely you’re capable of understanding that much, at least?

  • 655321

    What’s your excuse?

  • Jonathan Graham

    My behavior isn’t socially maladjusted. I can carry on long conversations with people online, even when I disagree with them without long streams of insults or evasions or deflecting. Generally speaking I examine the evidence and try to interpret it in a internally consistent way.

  • 655321

    Nice sidestep, another derp award. Your first, and biggest derp award came from you implying nutrition plays no role in preventing disease.

  • JGC

    Depends on what kind of disease, doesn’t it? Proper nutrition will certainly it will be effective at preventing diseases like Ricketts or scurvy–diseases which are a result of a nutritional deficiency. But ‘good nutrition’ will do nothing to prevent you from acquiring an infectious disease following exposure.

  • 655321

    Right, that’s why infectious diseases are so much more common, and potentially serious in the wealthiest countries.

  • JGC

    I’m sorry–was that an argument of some sort? If so I’m missing it’s point.

  • 655321

    Derp.

  • Mike Stevens

    Vitamin A helps to a degree, but only if the victims are deficient in it in the first place. The USA is not Sudan – deficiency is rare.

    It merely mitigates the complications of measles, anyway-it doesn’t prevent them.

    Preventing measles is the aim, not slightly reducing its lethality.

  • Mike Stevens

    You said 2 live rounds a moment ago. Can’t you count?

  • Mike Stevens

    …Developing countries….

    You miss all of that, did you?

  • Mike Stevens

    ‘Perhaps I first need to stop posting’

    We can but live in hope…

  • AutismDadd

    The one not capable of comprehension is you. Show me where I’ve said those things.

  • AutismDadd

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn -Fest

  • AutismDadd

    No dumb dumb but nice job inventing and twisting the truth. You’d make a typical politician.

  • AutismDadd

    Played hockey yesterday. Keeps me fit and mentally sharp. You should should try it. just leave you calculator at home.

  • sabelmouse

    and?

  • AutismDadd

    Moron alert. Everything can cause an adverse event? Such nonsense, a moronic deflection. VAERS and NVICP were set up by WHO? And WHY?

  • AutismDadd

    I won’t be clicking on that. Likely something perverted.

  • FallsAngel

    Source?

  • FallsAngel

    “This high percentage of individuals having long term immunity has been
    compromised by mass vaccination of children which provides at best 70 to
    90% immunity that is temporary and of unknown duration—shifting
    chickenpox to a more vulnerable adult population where chickenpox
    carries 20 times more risk of death and 15 times more risk of
    hospitalization compared to children.”

    Well, the only part of that statement that is true is that currently, the immunity is of unknown duration. Two doses of cpx vaccine confer 98% immunity, that is 98% of recipients will be immune. So 70-90% immunity is a lie. Temporary? We don’t know. Unknown duration, yes, it’s only been used for 21 years here in the US and a few years longer in Japan. However, most live virus vaccines confer long-term, possibly lifetime immunity. If it’s found that immunity wears off at some point in time, a booster would be required.

  • JGC

    AD’s argument is that good nutrition can substitute for vaccination (i.e., that good nutrition can reduce your risk of becoming infected when exposed to an infectious disease.
    He’s offered no evidence to support this claim–instead, he’s switched to arguing that once you have become infected nutrition may impact the course of the disease.

  • AutismDadd

    Has any parent ever said that “After sufficiently high levels of vitamin A my child regressed into autism”?

  • AutismDadd

    How would you know? The absence of something isn’t evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    Of course you are, that’s why your stuck in your parroting loop of vaccine propaganda.

  • AutismDadd

    Wow…clueless. Ron argument space cadet.

  • AutismDadd

    Wrong. The 98% represents anti-body reaction. The Vaccine Propagandists use it to claim that’s all there is to immunity. It doesn’t explain the vaccinated becoming infected in countless numbers by things vaccinated for. The Propagandists have other bogus explanations for the failures we read about.

  • JGC

    Sorry, AD. result of trying to carry on multiple discussions at one time.
    <Your argument is–well, I don’t believe you actually offered one. I noted that measles infection erases immune memory, making your immune system less able to respond to infectious diseases for several years after you’ve had measles, and you responded with a non-sequitor about a supposed increased incidence of serious infectious in wealthy nations.

  • AutismDadd

    Maybe you need some self-soothing? There are sites for that I hear. But I probably don’t need to tell you that. Say HI to the Fake wife and kids for me!

  • AutismDadd

    Buh Wah Ha Ha self-soothing yourself again?

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and instead of supporting your position you deflect. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell is pursuing me, with insults and you appear to be saying he’s doing so to get me off this board. So sounds pretty much like harassment.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yet according to you. You’re on here nearly 24/7.

    mentally sharp

    not enough to figure out how to determine how much time someone spends on here.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Everything can cause an adverse event?

    Just about anything. Sure.

    Such nonsense, a moronic deflection.

    You’re just angry because you don’t have an answer. Go calm down somewhere. Again the number of doses given is pretty central to determining cost/benefit. Which is the central question.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m just trying to tell 655321 that he shouldn’t be hard on you. Your poor socialization is partially environmental.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well that’s what you’re doing right now. I was just pointing out why your behavior would be considered self-soothing.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The absence of something isn’t evidence.

    If evidence is something that shifts the likelihood of a hypothesis then of course the absence of some things can be evidence. This is Bayesian probability theory 101.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That is what you said. :-)

  • JGC

    Not that I’m aware-why? What’s your point?

  • And your said 100 times more likely information source is what?

    Acute Flaccid Myelitis: What is it? Is it treatable? Can Vaccines Cause it?
    IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT VACCINES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH TRANSVERSE MYELITIS?
    http://vaxtruth.org/2016/11/acute-flaccid-myelitis-what-is-it-is-it-treatable-can-vaccines-cause-it/

    http://vaxtruth.org/tag/vaccines/

    WHAT IS ACUTE FLACCID MYELITIS?

    From the Transverse Myelitis Association:

    Acute Flaccid Myelitis (AFM) is a variant or sub-type of transverse myelitis. AFM is inflammation of the spinal cord and generally presents with unique clinical and MRI features that are not typical of classical transverse myelitis. AFM abnormalities noted on MRI are predominantly found in the gray matter of the spinal cord. In 2013, an outbreak of what is now believed to be this sub-type of transverse myelitis occurred in California and more cases were reported in the summer and fall of 2014 across the United States. The enterovirus (EV-D68) has been suspect in many of these cases however, it has not been definitively proven that it is this particular virus that has caused the paralysis,1 although several cases of AFM occurred at around the same time as an outbreak of the EV-D68 virus.

    https://myelitis.org/living-with-myelitis/disease-information/afm/

    IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT VACCINES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH TRANSVERSE MYELITIS?

    Yes.

    Lupus. 2009 Nov;18(13):1198-204. doi: 10.1177/0961203309345730.
    Transverse myelitis and vaccines: a multi-analysis.

    Transverse myelitis is a rare clinical syndrome in which an immune-mediated process causes neural injury to the spinal cord. The pathogene