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Why You Should Never Sign the Refusal to Vaccinate Form

As traditional school schedules resume in the coming days, many parents are bringing their children to their health care providers for sports physicals and well-child visits. If you decline vaccines for your child, your child’s doctor may ask or even insist that you sign a refusal form stating you were offered information about vaccines and you opted out of one or more vaccinations.

This piece of paper may seem harmless, but there are important reasons to decline signing this form when you decline vaccines. Read on to learn why you should never sign this vaccine refusal form.

The Refusal Form From the AAP May Be Used to Scare You

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), “within a 12-month period, 74% of pediatricians report encountering a parent who refused or delayed one or more vaccines.” [1]

In a letter to physicians, the AAP urged them to record vaccine refusals using a special document:

“The use of this or a similar form in concert with direct and non-condescending discussion can demonstrate the importance you place on appropriate immunizations, focuses parents’ attention on the unnecessary risk for which they are accepting responsibility, and may in some instances induce a wavering parent to accept your recommendations.”

If you are still deciding about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, opting for a delayed vaccination schedule, or declining specific vaccines, your child’s health care provider may use this form in combination with your uncertainty to pressure you to vaccinate your child.

The form includes an admonition stating that the outcome of not vaccinating might include contracting:

“certain types of cancer, pneumonia, illness requiring hospitalization, death, brain damage, paralysis, meningitis, seizures, and deafness; other severe and permanent effects from these vaccine-preventable diseases are possible as well.”

These words may sound scary to parents who are newly researching the truth about vaccines, but informed parents know that adverse reactions to vaccines are much more likely to occur than contracting the diseases themselves.

The Refusal to Vaccinate Form May Be Used To Take Your Child Away From You

The suggested form provided to healthcare providers by the AAP, which you may be asked to read and sign, includes the following statements:

“I know that failure to follow the recommendations about vaccination may endanger the health or life of my child and others with whom my child might come into contact.”

Some parents and vaccine safety advocates have suggested child protective services or a parent in a custody battle may use this “admission” against the signing parent to remove a child from their care.

In a report published in Pediatrics, the AAP outlines how healthcare providers should respond when parents decline vaccinations for their children, stating that there are circumstances which would justify involving “the appropriate child protective services agency because of the concern about medical neglect.” [2]

The Refusal to Vaccinate Form May Be Used to Require Medical Treatment

The form also states:

“I therefore agree to tell all health care professionals in all settings what vaccines my child has not received because he or she may need to be isolated or may require immediate medical evaluation and tests that might not be necessary if my child had been vaccinated.”

This language suggests that your child may be treated medically against your wishes because you did not accept certain vaccines.

How to Respond to Your Child’s Health Care Provider When They Tell You To Sign the Refusal to Vaccinate Form

If your child’s doctor or nurse presents this form to you, you may simply remind them that you are not obligated to sign this form. Vaccine exemptions are available in all fifty states, and you have the right to use these exemptions to refuse vaccines without signing the “refusal to vaccinate” form. [3]

Patricia Finn, a national vaccine injury and exemption attorney located in New York City, says it is probably best to refuse to sign the form.  However, if your refusal to sign stands between you and an exemption, or you and your pediatrician, and you have a valid legal basis for an exemption to vaccinations, then you probably should sign the form because it is not a legally enforceable agreement against you. 

According to Finn, signing a refusal form is not a waiver to rights to refuse vaccines, which are protected under statute and the United States Constitution.  Simply stated, your rights to refuse vaccines would not be waived by the refusal form.  It also would be unenforceable because the form would most likely have been signed under duress.

Another suggestion is to modify the form.  You can cross out what you disagree with, initial it, and sign the form. 

The rights of vaccine refusers were set out by the Supreme Court in the 1905 landmark vaccine-refusal case, Jacobson vs. Massachusetts.  Over one hundred years ago, the Justices of the Court recognized the potential for unnecessary vaccination mandates as being “a plain and palpable invasion of fundamental liberties,” like the new CDC refusal form you must sign to exercise your rights to refuse. 

If you are faced with having to sign the form, remember the Supreme Court held in Jacobson in 1905 that only one vaccine was allowable, and only in an extreme circumstance in which a grave danger existed that “imperils society.” The Supreme Court further held that vaccinations to be mandated must be necessary, proportional, non-discriminatory and harm avoidant, which today’s school required vaccines are not.  If you are presented with a refusal form from your child’s school or doctor, it would be wise to first consult with an attorney to obtain legal advice about how to proceed.

If you are still uncomfortable discussing vaccines with your child’s health care provider, you may wish to read 9 Ways to Boost Your Confidence When Your Doctor Pressures to Vaccinate.

Conclusion

These refusal to vaccinate forms were created to increase vaccination rates, scare parents, and potentially take children away from parents who decline vaccines or mandate medical treatment. Parents should refuse to sign these forms.

Has your child’s health care provider asked you to sign a refusal to vaccinate form? How did you respond? Please share your experiences in the comments section below. You can help other parents by sharing this article on social media.

References:

  1. https://www.aap.org/en-us/Documents/immunization_refusaltovaccinate.pdf
  2. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/115/5/1428.long
  3. http://www.nvic.org/vaccine-laws/state-vaccine-requirements.aspx

Photo Credit

Missy Fluegge
 

Missy Fluegge is the mom of three children who have taught her abundantly about life, more than she learned in over sixteen years of formal schooling. Her passions include mothering, teaching fine arts, researching and serving as a parent educator. Many years ago, she traded her nightstand for a bookshelf, which always holds at least a dozen books-in-progress, mostly non-fiction reads that support her fairytale notion of saving the world one person at a time.

  • Baja Joes

    Congress can NOT grant immunity to companies for causing DEATH!

  • Lili

    They can and they did in 1986 with The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. An absolute disgrace to our human rights.

  • Doran Zeigler

    They let the vaccine companies off the hook, but you can still take your case to the “vaccine court” (Office of Special Masters of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims). The Trust is funded by a small fee assessed on each vaccine by the the manufacturers.

    There is a lot of controversy as to who really pays these fees. Many people say it is funded by taxpayer money, which is not true. Do the manufacturers pay? Well, they say they do, but these fees are included in the price of the vaccine. The manufacturers are reimbursed by those who pay for the vaccines.

  • The federal vaccine court is nothing but a very limited and corrupt system that supports the drug companies, and against the parents. Only a small fraction of the cases that deserve compensation for vaccine injury and resulting death, are ever filed. Far to many cases have been dismissed and all of it based on corrupt epidemiological studies that the CDC and others with vested interests in vaccines, directly funded. They do not have any real vaccine safety study science that shows the direct safety of vaccines, and nor in regard to multiple vaccines given in the same day, and office visit.

    Vaccine Injury Compensation Data

    Since 1988, over 18,426 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 29-year time period, 16,555 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,581 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,974 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.7 billion.

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

    9 Questions For The Pro-vaxxers

    1. Where are the safety studies regarding the vaccine safety of the current CDC vaccine schedule?

    2 Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the known practice of injecting a small child with from 5 and up to nine or more vaccines, in a single day and office visit?

    3. Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to the safety of injecting vaccine aluminum adjuvants?

    4. Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the practice of injecting both vaccines with attenuated live viruses in them, together with as well killed vaccines with aluminum adjuvants in them.

    5. Where are the studies showing the vaccine safety of vaccines which are contaminated with human diploid cell short and long chain DNA contaminants, due to the use of human diploid tissue in the growing of the vaccine antigens in childhood vaccines? Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to any other vaccine that has been known to be contaminated with the substances that the vaccine antigen was grown on, and from?

    6. Where are the vaccinated verses entirely un-vaccinated health outcome studies? Thousands of children still exist in the US, with active vaccine exemptions. The Amish community as well have had thousands of un-vaccinated children within their communities. Just because a small group of Amish were falsely fear mongered into vaccinating and ended up at a clinic in the attempt to diagnose and treat resulting childhood autism; does not mean that the entire Amish community vaccinates, and has been falsely eluded to. Obviously there is no need to not vaccinate, simply to do this study.

    7. In regard to the MMR vaccine. How does the CDC as well continue to ignore this long list of studies showing the harmful effects of, the vaccine injury effects of; and as well in these studies there as well appears be an obvious MMR connection to autism? The controversy does not only revolve around a single 1998 study by Wakefield, and as well a single study connected to the CDC’s, William Thompson. And the so called official word that they tell you is that any vaccine/autism link has been dis-proven, and debunked; right? Really? Lets look further.

    8. Can you explain how it is possible in regard to the comparisons of systemic adverse reactions, for the FDA in the review and in the approval of vaccines through clinical trials, to allow the substitution of saline placebo, a replacement such as other similar vaccines which the FDA has previously approved as safe? If big pharma and the CDC are going to re-assure their claim to the public that vaccines are safe; then why are not real saline placebos required in the comparison of systemic reactions. Lets as well look at the clinical trials on Gardasil. One placebo was the aluminum adjuvant, and the other appears to be HPV virus like particles, in the vaccines carrier solution. It is all in the over 400 page document that Merck submitted to the FDA on their said Gardasil clinical trials. No wonder the comparison between the vaccine and placebo graphs appear to be so similar. And with this going on, the public is actually supposed to retain their assurances of proven vaccine safety? I think not.

    9. Are you aware of the fact that SV40 a known contaminant in the early 1960’s polio vaccine, is still being found in children today, and which are to young to have ever had that known contaminated vaccine? SV40 is as well known to cause benign tumors, and cancer. Are you as well aware of the fact that vaccines today still contain the unresolved risk of there being contaminants in them that can cause and create adverse health effects? Contaminants from any once living animal, or human cell source, on which the vaccine antigens were grown on and from. This is clearly a remaining unresolved problem, and as witnessed again in regard to the vaccine Gardasil.

    Lets also take a look at the existing studies that allegedly show no connection between vaccines and autism. Actually, general vaccine injury, and immunological harm done, and without the evidence of autism, is an equally as serious an issue.

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    And, what did they study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them being independent and nor unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    14 Studies
    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

  • Hans

    The purpose of the Refusal form is no different from a consent form for any surgery or procedure you would sign. Doctors want to be sure you really understand the added risk you are putting your child in by declining.

    -The possibility of complications of any of the vaccine preventable diseases are VERY real. Ask your grandma who remembers. You are lucky enough to live in a time in which these diseases have become rare, because of vaccines. We have seen over and over that outbreaks occur in populations with low vaccination rates, and this is only going to increase in frequency. There is currently a whooping cough outbreak in my area, which puts every newborn baby potentially at risk.

    -You need to understand you are actually putting your child and other children at risk. This is not a scare tactic, but reality. I understand that people who refuse to vaccinate truly believe that vaccinations are potentially more harmful, but tens of thousands of studies have proven this false and the propagation of this pseudo-science is so irresponsible.

    -guess what? If you’re child isn’t vaccinated against pertussis and shows up with a cough, they will be placed in isolation. Not a scare tactic, but good medical care. If your 5 month old shows up unwell with a fever and has never had a HIB vaccine, they will likely get a lumbar puncture. A long needle into their spinal column to sample spinal fluid in order to rule out meningitis. Again, this is not a scare tactic but good, essential medical care that will be required to possibly save your child’s life.

    Does it scare you? Maybe not vaccinating isn’t in the best interest of your child, not to mention society. Because, Science.

    Please do not get your medical information from people like this author with no expertise. I assume her 16yrs of education includes primary and secondary school. Physicians or PhDs who develop vaccines have 12-15 years of education after secondary school (so 28-31 years if we’re all including elementary school in our credentials now). Bring on the comments about “big Pharma”, but I don’t have the energy to argue with ignorance. I don’t care how much time you’ve spent doing “research” and googling “How to fly a commercial jet”. I will would never trust the lives of my children on a plane you’re flying.

  • longhorndude

    Hans, Du bist ein Schwanz.

  • [Tens of thousands of studies have proven this false and the propagation of this pseudo-science is so irresponsible]

    That is a BS and ignorance filled lie, and right out of the gate. The unbiased the real study science on vaccine risk, is not on your side, period. Wake up. Provide me with your vaccine safety studies on aluminum adjuvants, known existing vaccine contamination, and regarding giving a small child from 5 and up to 9 or more vaccines in a single day and office visit? Your level of complete misinformation, is shameless.

  • TheVegan Parent

    You made yourself sound completely insane. Isolation for a cough? Lumbar puncture for a fever? What’s next, chemo for a birth mark? You’re exactly why parents have lost faith in Western medicine, your approach would kill more kids over medicating them and giving them unnecessary, harmful procedures than vaccine “preventable” diseases ever would.

  • Hans

    Yes isolation for a cough, and an LP in an unvaccinated febrile infant. This is very basic health care in a developed country. You are so lucky to live here, and only in your privileged bubble are you able to look down on “western medicine”. Ask a mother in Sudan who’s baby died of meningitis if she would have killed to have had a doctor do an LP, then save her baby’s life with antibiotics. Or even better have been vaccinated against HIB and not infected at all. But no, you are too privileged to realized how ridiculous you sound. Western Medicine is so unnecessary, harmful and evil. Until you’re in an MVA and need a doctor to sew your organs back together. This ignorance is exhausting. Check your privilege.

  • Hans

    I’m not going to challenge your pseudoscience. Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect. I have better things to do with my time.

  • Typical, and the standard mindless and well known vaccine shillary response. How do you call study science, psuedoscience; and when you have never seen it? But you character name only vaccine shills seem to think that you don’t need any evidence for any of the claims that you make. And so were you as well just reply posting under the character name, Frederic Chopin?

  • No one ever said that the ER was not at times necessary and a good thing. You need to get your rationalizations and your comparisons put into the proper perspective. What is being said is that western so called medicine in the bigger picture is doing far more harm than good. The reasons for that go back its very foundation and the allowed big pharma only flawed understanding of physiologically based health care.

    PHARMA DEATH CLOCK

    TOTAL DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE JANUARY 1, 2000…

    BIG PHARMA’S CHEMICAL WARFARE ON HUMANITY DWARFS THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS KILLED BY ALL WORLD WARS AND ACTS OF TERRORISM COMBINED…

    While drug companies profit billions, people are dying by the millions.

    http://pharmadeathclock.com/

    MEDICINE KILLS MILLIONS (direct data and statistics)
    http://medicinekillsmillions.com/

    Conventional Medicine is the Leading Cause of Death
    https://draxe.com/conventional-medicine-is-the-leading-cause-of-death/

    Western Medicine is Rockefeller Medicine – All The Way
    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/western-medicine-rockefeller-medicine/

    These 13 Corporations Are “Big Pharma”: Their History, Crimes, and Products
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSRwhceBxk

    Our Stories
    SSRI Stories is a collection of over 6,000 stories that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) in which prescription drugs were mentioned and in which the drugs may be linked to a variety of adverse outcomes including violence.

    https://ssristories.org/

    Benjamin Rush
    U.S. Founding Father, Signer of The Declaration of Independence
    (1746-1813)

    Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.

    http://www.all-creatures.org/quotes/rush_benjamin.html

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-country-with-medical-freedom-written-into-the-constitution

    Dr. Benjamin Rush warned about loss of medical freedom over 200 years ago
    http://www.naturalnews.com/034892_Benjamin_Rush_medical_freedom_Constitution.html

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Benjamin_Rush

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Rush

    Generation SICK: The Power, Politics and Propaganda Behind America’s Health Crisis Paperback – January 10, 2016
    by Dr. Vic Naumov (Author)
    https://www.amazon.com/Generation-SICK-Politics-Propaganda-Americas/dp/0996960406

    The Lucifarian – Attack

    King James Bible
    And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. http://biblehub.com/revelation/18-23.htm

    King James Bible
    And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    Revelation 18: 23, “By Thy Sorceries Were All Nations Deceived.”
    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/on-revelation-18-23-by-thy-sorceries-were-all-nations-deceived.7728322/

    Pharmacopoeia …the sorceries of Babylon
    https://discernthetime.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/pharmaceuticals-the-sorceries-of-babylon/

    PHARMACEUTICALS – THE SORCERIES OF BABYLON
    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2014/01/pharmaceuticals-sorceries-of-babylon.html

  • Hans

    I refuse to engage in debating your conspiracy theories.

  • TheVegan Parent

    “This is very basic medical care in a developed country” giving babies spinal taps every time me they come in with a fever because it might be meningitis? No it’s not. What hospital do you work for so I know not to take my family there if we ever need medical care?

  • Then leave, and you admit that you have nothing to counter any of this. It is a bit hard to call things only a conspiracy theory, and when the evidence of the truth is right in front of you. Makes you look really foolish.

  • TheVegan Parent

    Then do them. Stop trolling “anti-vaxxers”. If you’re actually worried about children in Sudan go join Doctors Without Boarders instead of antagonizing parents with healthy children.

  • Hans

    Why would you ever seek medical care from evil Western doctors anyway. Give your spot to a family who actually appreciates health care. And once again yes, if you show up to ER with an unwell (note this fancy medical term I used that doctors spend over a decade learning how to assess severity and make a clinical judgement on) febrile unvaccinated infant they will be exposed to more invasive testing. Period. Vaccine preventable diseases must be conclusively ruled out if there’s any suspicion in these children. This is why parents are asked to sign this form, stating that they understand this.

  • Hans

    *sigh

  • What is a privilege is to live in a society with access to fresh and clean water, fresh fruit and vegetables, sewage treatment, garbage removal, and even soap.

    You seem to be ignorant to the fact that ADRs are the 4th leading cause of death in the United States. How is that privileged? It seems more like death by medicine.

  • Proponent

    Confucius say: Student who study history, will find there is no future in it.

  • Proponent

    TheVegan Parent: “If you’re actually worried about children in Sudan go join Doctors Without Boarders instead of antagonizing parents with healthy children.”

    “Doctors Without Boarders”?

    Tenancies for doctor-owned rental properties are down?

    Sheesh.. as if those baby killers don’t make enough money injecting poison into our kids!!

  • Proponent

    Jeffry John Aufderheide: “You seem to be ignorant to the fact that ADRs are the 4th leading cause of death in the United States.”

    For the sake of accuracy.. that is not a fact, though. The “4th leading cause of death in the United States” bit, to be clear.

    Further..

    This factoid has it’s roots in the following study from 1998;

    Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: A meta-analysis of prospective studies.
    Lazarou J, Pomeranz B, Corey PN. JAMA 1998;279:1200–1205.

    “CONCLUSIONS:

    The incidence of serious and fatal ADRs in US hospitals was found to be extremely high. While our results must be viewed with circumspection because of heterogeneity among studies and small biases in the samples, these data nevertheless suggest that ADRs represent an important clinical issue.”

    Which was the subject of this paper from 2000;

    Adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: A critique of a meta-analysis.
    Kvasz M, Allen IE, Gordon MJ, Ro EY, Estok R, Olkin I, Ross SD. MedGenMed. 2000 Apr 27; 2(2):E3. Epub 2000 Apr 27.

    “A recently published meta-analysis of the incidence of adverse drug reactions (ADRs) in hospitalized patients concluded that ADRs rank as the fourth to sixth leading cause of death in the US. This conclusion generated considerable concern among healthcare providers, patients, and pharmaceutical manufacturers. To better understand the evidence behind this conclusion, we conducted a critical review of the source studies and the meta-analytic methods used to combine them. The following is a report of our findings, which suggest that the conclusions of the meta-analysis are invalid.”

  • Ruth

    This ‘science’ you are talking about, and obviously have a lot of faith in, is flawed. It is assumed to be correct by most people and is vigorously promoted as such. Questioning and testing these assumptions or ‘theories’ is strongly discouraged. Scientists who do are usually punished.

    So great is this faith that this belief that vaccines are ‘safe and effective’ that is has become dogma. This isn’t science. Science should always be questioned. Most especially when it is a new or very young science such as immunology.

    Many people assume that all microbes are bad and must cause disease and that the only treatment for disease is vaccines. What if this is an incorrect and outdated idea? There are so many bugs on you and in you, that unless you have a compromised immune system, you have a very good chance of mounting a proper immune defense and thus gaining better protection for a longer time.

    Take the assumption that vaccines cured diseases. Since most of them were introduced at a point when morbidity and mortality for these diseases was very much reduced, there was something else at work. Look at Scarlet Fever. It behaved in much the same way, and yet there was never any vaccine.

    Some vaccines such chicken pox and mumps were successful, but ended up moving the burden of disease. Shingles now occurs more frequently and mumps more frequently in older age groups. This is a particular problem for males. It has been seen that the latest HPV vaccines kills more young people the cancer caused by the virus. And permanently cripples and sterilizes many other young girls. Some researchers have even called this a scandal.

    These bugs mutate a lot. This can makes vaccines ineffective. An example of this is the flu shot. They “guess” at what strains to put in it (usually 3 or 4 from over 100). These strains maybe ones that a person may never meets, and most likely doesn’t even need, if they have a healthy immune system. Latest science from the CDC states that the flu shot is ineffective and even worse, over time, increases a person’s risk of contracting other viruses, including flu. I work in a health care setting and I’m seeing this now. This is the exact opposite of what most health care providers wanted to achieve.

    Adjuvents are a problem in vaccines as are other chemical and biological ingredients that may be there accidentally, or by design. They overstimulate the immune system and can be toxic. It’s no coincidence that there is a huge increase in autoimmune diseases (linked to HIB and Vit K shots) and cancer (especially in children, which has been linked to the Vit K shot).
    Nor is it a coincidence that autism and SIDs have increased in our society and our children are getting sicker and sicker compared to those in other developed nations.

    Oh, and pharmaceutical companies are not legally liable for injuries caused by their vaccines and have exponentially increased the number which are being mandated (forced) on people by governments. This is also a huge money spinner for them. Did you know that many pediatric practices can not survive financially unless they get the bonuses for vaccinating children? It forces doctors to push these medications and interventions on people, or go broke.

    If you are pro-vaccine, and many people are, then the best thing to do is get educated on the issues and problems with vaccines, rather than ignore them, or be frightened into doing something that may have no benefit, or worse, even cause harm.

    I thoroughly recommend viewing the movie Vaxxed, getting the book “Dissolving Illusions” by Suzanne Humphries and checking out “Vaccines Revealed”, or even “The Truth About Vaccines”.

    These issues are becoming more and more of a problem. Being unaware of them or misinformed, in the end does not help anyone’s children, or perhaps the human race in general. Not a plane I’d want to travel on.

  • Chris Bordenca

    You r one of them!!! Requiring the ” mark of the beast”!! Many of these vaccinations ( Not immunizations) tweak your very DNA!! U r forcing the trans humanism agenda… making it eventually where one can’t buy sale or trade without it! It is all scriptural.. this goes beyond medicine… this goes on to forcing what u think all should have ….. and NO there r not thousands of tests,,, we r the mice here and the results speak for itself!! Just an example is it one dtap u need to be protected ?? 3. ?5? At what point is it determined?? So a 5 month old presented with symptoms and let’s say has had 2 rounds of shots… r they protected? Would u run the same tests?? Anyway it doesn’t matter to people like u!! Believers in Christ know what is coming!!

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Yes, Hans and Proponent, two accounts from David Gorski’s “scienceblog”/”skepticalraptor’ Big pHarma websites. They want lumbar puncture for a fever, to punish people for not vaccinating. I hope Gorski will get his scull drilled when he has a headache. Horrible thing about american medicine – this is the direction it heads to.
    Even if I knew nothing about vaccines and their drugs, reading the nonsense their paid trolls post, would make me very unwilling to use their products.
    And some people have a misfortune to be Gorski’s patients, as he is still practicing chopping off parts of women’s bodies in Detroit, when he is not trolling. Some patients get online to describe their bad experience with him

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    David Gorski works for Karmanos Cancer Center in Detroit, the same place where Farid Fatah worked, oncologist who was caught by FBI falsely diagnosing hundreds of people with cancer, and making millions giving them unnecessary chemotherapy, He also runs pharma financed “scienceblog”/”skepticalraptor” websites with about 20 trolls employed (Hans, Proponent, Reality are from there). Websites probably make him more money than his failed hospital job (bad reviews from patients). Gorski also appears at vaccine brainwashing events for medical students with Offit -for -Profit, and Dorit Reiss, “Queen of Lies”, a tort lawyer from University of California Hastings school of Law, who, according to rumors, makes her law students troll provaxx on internet for grades. Nice company.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    That is true, Chris. There is cancerous DNA in vaccines, from animal and aborted fetal cancerous cells on which viruses are industrially grown (now mostly in China).
    DNA is destroyed by vaccines.

  • Mary Jonson

    And who pays for the vaccines? The government. And who pays for the government? Hmmm. How about… TAXPAYERS!!!

  • TheVegan Parent

    So you don’t have any credentials, got it.

    Again who do you think you’re persuading here? If I take my child whose unvaccinated to the doctor, its shouldn’t be assumed that they have a vaccine preventable illness because these diseases as you said are rare, and vaccines are not even close to 100% effective. If you assume little Johnny is vaccinated so he’s protected from Meningitis, you’d be very very wrong considering that it can be caused by numerous strains of bacteria, viruses, fungi, even vaccines themselves. Recently vaccine people spread whooping cough, why are they not kept in isolation so they don’t infect other people?

    Talking to parents like this, you know what happens? They stop seeking out medical care because their tired of being bullied. They say, you know what, you’re right, Western medicine is dangerous I’ll take my chances with my kid at home rather than take them to the ER. Kids die. I get it doctors can pass the blame onto the parents and scream “medical neglect” so they never have to deal with the consequences of their all or nothing approach or kicking patients out of their practice for not vaccinating. They just pass the blame on to someone else.

  • kfunk937

    Doctors Without Boarders: the anti-pirate frontline.

    Yaarr! Avast, me hearties!

  • Yes. Western medical doctors may be one of the leading causes of death in the US.

    “These studies estimate that 6.7% of hospitalized patients have a serious adverse drug reaction with a fatality rate of 0.32%.2 If these estimates are correct, then there are more than 2,216,000 serious ADRs in hospitalized patients, causing over 106,000 deaths annually. If true, then ADRs are the 4th leading cause of death—ahead of pulmonary disease, diabetes, AIDS, pneumonia, accidents, and automobile deaths.”

    https://www.fda.gov/drugs/developmentapprovalprocess/developmentresources/druginteractionslabeling/ucm110632.htm

    Barbara Starfield notes in her paper that, “The health care system also may contribute to poor health through its adverse effects. For example, US estimates of the combined effect of errors and adverse effects that occur because of iatrogenic damage not associated with recognizable error include:
    • 12000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
    • 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
    • 20000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
    • 80000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
    • 106000 deaths/year from nonerror, adverse effects of medications

    These total to 225000 deaths per year from iatrogenic
    causes.”

    https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-primary-care-policy-center/Publications_PDFs/A154.pdf

  • FallsAngel

    Wrong on both counts! Kids with coughs isolated. Go to any doctor’s office with a coughing and see what happens. They’ll hand you a mask quicker than you can say “anti-vaccine”. It’s possible at school the teacher might not recognize that a bad cough (not talking about the occasional cough we all do) is a sign of possible contagious disease and let the kid infect the whole class before finding out s/he has pertussis. Then again, you get a teacher who’s been around the block more than once, s/he will likely send the kid to the nurse who will assess the kid and is s/he thinks the child is ill, will call the parents to get the kid. This happens with kids who are vaxed and unvaxed alike.

    Babies with “fever of unknown origin” almost always get a lumbar puncture, especially if you take said child to the ER. It’s SOP.

  • FallsAngel

    They want lumbar puncture for a fever, to punish people for not vaccinating.

    What a crock of compost! They do the LP to check for meningitis. Ask any pediatric ER doctor/nurse.

    Even if I knew nothing about vaccines and their drugs,

    What do you mean “even if”?

    their paid trolls post

    Any evidence of anyone being paid?

  • FallsAngel

    Oh, yes it is, Vegan! If the docs can’t find another cause for the fever, they will do an LP, especially in an ER.

  • FallsAngel

    Sweet Home Alabama! The lenghts to which anti-vaxers will go to scare parents! Lurkers, this is all BS.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    This bunch of Gorsky’s trolls who are employed here, should be kicked out, because they do not contribute anything to debate (not that anything intelligent can be said to support the filthy scum that all vaccines are).

  • Frederic Chopin

    Fata never worked at the Karmanos Cancer Center.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    The letter from Doctor James Meehan.
    This is the real doctor!
    “To all the pediatricians still trolling my page, now that I’ve got your attention, listen closely. Heed my words.
    You should be FIGHTING LIKE HELL for the safety of our children from even the most remote possibility that vaccines aren’t as safe as they could be or aren’t as safe as we are being told. Instead of fighting for truth and safety, you’re fighting like rats for your piece of cheese.
    I have ZERO RESPECT for vaccine profiteers that are so financially biased, confirmation biased, indoctrinated, and willfully ignorant of the evidence that clearly shows vaccines cause injury, disease and REGRESSIVE AUTISM, that they aggressively lobby lawmakers to make vaccines mandatory, and deny parents the essential knowledge about the risks of toxic ingredients injected into their babies.
    Bought by big pharma, the caretakers of childrens’ health have become the perpetrators of harm rather than the protectors. They profit as our precious, perfect children are harmed and killed by vaccines filled with cheap preservatives, neurotoxic adjuvants, and human cellular material derived from aborted fetal cell lines. They are complicit accomplices in the murder-by-vaccine crimes that have made American infants THE MOST VACCINATED and THE MOST LIKELY TO DIE in the first year of life.
    America’s infant mortality rate, the highest rate in ALL developed nations, is a national tragedy. The epidemic of autism, autoimmune diseases, asthma, allergies, ADHD, and pediatric cancers is far worse. The evidence is everywhere.
    Unbelievably, the epidemic of autism is rising exponentially. Today, ONE in 48 children in America suffer autism. At the present rate of increase, by 2032 ONE in TWO children AND 80% OF BOYS could be autistic. We can’t afford to sacrifice our children and the future of our nation to the ignorance and greed of pediatricians and their big pharmaceutical vaccine manufacturer masters demanding parents submit our children to an intolerably dangerous, untested, and unnecessary vaccine schedule of 72+ injections…and rising. There are over 200 vaccines in the pipeline.
    Every pediatrician, family practitioner, or vaccine profiteer that isn’t rising up against the corruption of the science of vaccines perpetrated by the CDC is betraying their oath to “first, do no harm.” They are on the wrong side of history. Too many have given up objectivity and reason and have simply become sales representatives for the vaccine manufacturers that have so easily bought and conditioned them to believe their lies. The blood of every vaccine injured or killed child is on the hands of every pediatrician that parroted lies like “vaccines do not cause autism” and “the science is settled.” The science isn’t settled, it’s corrupt.
    The vaccine industry will soon face the backlash as doctors, scientists, and parents across America become aware of your crimes, rise up to oppose your lies, and hold you accountable for the vaccine injury holocaust you’ve caused. The fraudulent deceit is coming to and end. We won’t allow it to continue.
    For me, uncovering the many layers of fraud and corruption that have allowed vaccines to harm so many children, is analogous to walking into an exam room in which a child is being abused by a doctor. I’m not about to look the other way and allow the abuse to continue. I would call the police, however, in my analogy the police are the CDC, and they are participating and enabling the abuse. Regardless, I won’t ignore the abuse and allow it to continue. I’m going to stop the abusers from harming the child, and I won’t be gentle about it.
    That’s how I see the travesty of the corruption of vaccines that is harming the children of America today. It’s obvious and I’m angry about my how so many of medical colleagues refuse to open the door, expose the abuse, and stop it.
    In closing, I beseech my colleagues to open your eyes, minds, and the evidence that for too long you’ve negligently denied. Confront the reality that you’ve been duped, controlled, and indoctrinated. Free yourselves from the indoctrination. Stand with me. Demand scientific transparency, integrity, and reform of the vaccine industry. Join me in this fight to protect children and get yourselves on the right side of history.

  • CumExApostolatus

    And I’d never trust your directions on how to find my way out of a paper bag.

  • CumExApostolatus

    You forgot amputation or excision of the area where a mosquito bite appears. /sarc

  • CumExApostolatus

    Another reason to avoid the ER.

  • CumExApostolatus

    Call 1-800-SHYSTER.

  • CumExApostolatus

    You left out DEATH BY PURDUE PHARMACEUTICALS. (think Oxycontin)…a privately held corporation, wholly owned by the Sackler family. But hey, they’re “philanthropists”, so all’s forgiven, amIright?

  • Valtam Nord

    “Debate” is a formal method of discussion on any particular topic in a public venue in which opposing arguments are put forward. Each side can contribute what ever they desire.

  • JGC

    “Many of these vaccinations ( Not immunizations) tweak your very DNA”

    Citations needed, Chris

    “Just an example is it one dtap u need to be protected ?? 3. ?5?”
    If you vaccinate according to the recommended schedule five, at 2 months, 4 months, 5 months, between 15 and 19 months and between 4 and 6 years.

  • JGC

    Citations needed, k3oycam
    Your evidence that there is cancerous DNA in vaccine formulations in use today would be what, exactly?
    Your evidence that DNA is destroyed by vaccines would be what, exactly?

  • JGC

    “Many people assume that all microbes are bad and must cause disease and that the only treatment for disease is vaccines”

    With the possible exception of rabies vaccine, vaccines are not given to treat infectious disease but to protect against acquiring infectious disease. Once acquired, diseases are treated with antibiotics, antivirals, etc.

    ” Look at Scarlet Fever. It behaved in much the same way, and yet there was never any vaccine.”

    A vaccine against scarlet fever was well into development, but the discovery of effective antibiotics to treat scarlet fever made completing development unnecessary.

    ” It has been seen that the latest HPV vaccines kills more young people the cancer caused by the virus.”

    Nonsense: in the US alone, in 2017 the American Cancer Society estimates there will be about more than 12,000 new cases of invasive cervical cancer diagnosed resulting in more than 4000 deaths. While there have been reports of deaths following HPV vaccination to VAERS, none of them have been shown to be causally associated with HPV vaccination (see http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2016/08/all-those-hpv-vaccine-deaths-arent.html)

    About 4,210 women will die from cervical cancer.

  • JGC

    “If I take my child whose unvaccinated to the doctor, it shouldn’t be assumed that they have a vaccine preventable illness because these diseases as you said are rare, and vaccines are not even close to 100% effective.”
    And why are infectious diseases rare? Oh, that’s right: because we routinely vaccinate against them.

  • JGC

    So Posey failed to realize not just once, but twice, that doing a prospective vaxxed versus un=vaxxed study would be completely unethical and that no IRB in the nation would possibly approve one?

  • JGC

    Dr. Meehan, your evidence demonstrating the existence of a causal association between routine childhood vaccination and autism, autoimmune diseases, asthma, allergies, ADHD, and pediatric cancers would be what, exactly?
    I mean, you do actually have some–right?

  • FallsAngel

    Well, everyone should have a “medical home”, yes, that is a primary care doctor. However, often in the wee hours of the morning, the PCP will recommend you go to the ER. And if you take your child to the ER for a fever of undetermined origin, they will test until they find the source. General sequence is respiratory, then urinary (may require a catherterization), then if nothing else shows up, and LP. If the child is not vaccinated for Hib, the more likely they’ll test for it, though one of the doctors I worked with said they almost always do an LP at the ER on a baby with an FUO.

    Would you prefer your child die of meningits? It can happen fast. It can also cause numerous permanent problems, including diminished mental capacity.

  • JGC

    Standard challenge: can anyone opposed to routine childhood vaccination offer any actual evidence demonstrating that the risks associated with routine childhood vaccination exceed the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection by the diseases they protect against?

  • JGC

    “The unbiased and the real study science on vaccine risk, is not on your side, period.”

    Can you provide citations to the peer-reviewed journal articles in which this unbiased and real study science is presented?

    Re: aluminum adjuvants, what evidence demonstrates they are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

    “Thousands of children have been vaccine injured and they continue to be injured”

    What injuries have they suffered, and how it been established that those injuries actually were caused by the vaccinations they received? It is, I trust, on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Under normal circumstances, yes. Even the most stupid people have the right to their opinion. However, Gorski’s minions are not your regular stupids, who are misinformed about vaccines. On the opposite, they are informed very well. It is their job to fill discussion board with garbage and prevent normal debate, and they are successful to a degree. You can never outtype the troll on a payroll. By the way, mainstream media deletes all posts that say the truth about vaccines from their discussion boards. Why these Gorski’s trolls do not go there?

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Correct advice is: do not sign the letter, write your own. Or better homeschool plus enroll your child in sports and arts program. Public schools are horrible anyway.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    It is time to stop the madness of vaccine pushers

  • Shawn_Siegel

    Perhaps it’s the endless line of parental eyewitness accounts of taking a healthy infant or toddler in for vaccines, and leaving the pediatrician’s office with an obviously sick child, who may be lethargic, or issuing the high-pitched scream indicating brain inflammation, an encephalitic vaccine reaction; who awakes the very next morning having lost the ability to walk without falling down, or lost the use of what vocabulary had been gained, or lost eye contact with parents and siblings, too often to continue down a road of regression to diagnosis of autism – I’m not sure. Sometimes they don’t awake the next morning – or ever again. I’ve interviewed several of these parents.

    Autism is a behavioral diagnosis, the cause of which is listed by the CDC as “brain difference”. Meanwhile, Health and Human Services on its website tells us the DTaP, Tdap and MMR vaccines can cause brain inflammation and brain damage.

    With the ready availability of honest information on the internet, in books, DVDs and seminars, it’s relatively easy for anyone interested to seriously study vaccines and their effects, and there’s simply no doubt that vaccines can and do cause regressive autism – though a significant problem is that the day of birth Hep B shot can preclude ever getting to know your neurologically typical infant, obfuscating severe neurological reactions to subsequent vaccines.

  • JGC

    So his claim is based entirely on anecdotal accounts and post hoc ergo procter hoc logical fallacy, rather actual evidence?

  • Shawn_Siegel

    Boy, is that a dawg chasing its own tail. You can’t find out whether vaccines are harming – whether it would actually be unethical to implement such a study – unless you do the study. Fortunately, it’s not really necessary, and the vaccine cartel’s perfectly aware of that. All that’s needed is a thorough assessment of the overall health of the approximately one million Americans who out of choice – either theirs, or their parent’s – have never had a vaccine. There have been numerous unofficial surveys of vaxed vs unvaxed, some with 15,000 respondents, and they all show markedly better health in the unvaccinated – which shouldn’t be a surprise. The reason that injection of known toxins and neurotoxins sounds like an irrational approach to disease prevention, is because it is.

  • Hans

    My credentials include a BSc and MD, but know that doesn’t hold weight in this conspiracy theory, pseudoscience world. I don’t in anyway think this makes me a better person or parent than you or anyone else, but does make me better qualified to understand the science and interpret the evidence. Just as whatever you are trained to do you will always be better at than me. No amount of googling will make me qualified to make me a lawyer or car mechanic. This war on medicine is only possible in a healthy, developed country who has to start creating problems as science has solved too many and made our lives too easy. I so wish people like you could experience what life was like 2-3 generations ago when you never expected all your children would survive to adulthood.

    I hope this is never you one day, but this is what happens when parents are ignorant. Poor child.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941

  • Shawn_Siegel

    If someone told you that oft repeated, unconnected but similar eyewitness accounts of injury don’t equate to evidence, they were mistaken.

  • Hans

    These stats are useless unless you can prove these fatalities would not have occurred without any medical intervention.

    Sick people die. Sick people in hospitals or having surgery or taking medications die. Do medical errors occur? Unfortunately yes; that’s the problem with Doctors being human and fallible. But when someone with a full blown septic infection dies officially from a heart arrhythmia resulting from one of the antibiotics that would otherwise have saved their life, its not fair or accurate to say that they only died from a medication adverse effect. 60 years ago they would have died from Sepsis and that would be the end of it.

  • Hans

    If you need directions on how to get out of a paper bag, you have bigger problems.

  • JGC

    Also, can you provide a link to the CDC’s website where they list the cause of autism as “brain difference”?

    Do you understand that ‘different’ is not a synonym for ‘damaged’?

    I have extreme doubt that vaccines are causaully associated with ASD’s, regressive or otherwise. What in your opinion represents the single most credible and compelling piece of actual evidence establishing tat they are?

  • JGC

    Rhetorical fallacy alert: your attempt at argument from numbers is noted and dismissed.

    But let me ask you a yes or no question: do you believe that extraterrestrial visitors piloting technologically advanced craft routinely visit the earth where they abduct random humans and subject them to medical experiments/examinations which seem to involve an obligatory sigmoidoscopy?

    After all, the evidence in support of alien abductions–anecdotal accounts and personal testimonials–is indistinguishable from the evidence you seem to think should convince me vaccines are causally associated with ASD’s.

  • Mike Stevens

    I’d go further – if Meehan had evidence of what he claims, it is his professional duty to properly report his findings to fellow doctors and scientists in some meaningful way suitable for critical scruting and review – a scientific conference or meeting, a published article or study in a journal – so that all can learn from it.

    To claim one has evidence of how something is damaging children, and refuse to present it so others can avoid it, is tantamount to criminal negligence by omission.

  • Kim Jensen

    I don’t give a rats ass how much medical school you went through! Tell me how an UNVACCINATED child is going to spread ANY disease to a VACCINATED child? ????

  • Kim Jensen

    And you lie! Where are these “tens of thousands of studies “in which you speak of? ?? There have been NO studies on the effects of vaccinated vs. UNVACCINATED children! !! I would LOVE to know how YOU know this? LIES! !!!

  • Kim Jensen

    This is not conspiracy theory at all. It’s fact! Do your own research. Either you KNOW this to be fact and you do not care about the health of children or, you really believe what you’re saying. If this is all “conspiracy theories “, then what have you got to lose? And if it’s not? ?? Yes, you’re poisoning children every single time you shoot them up with a vaccine. .. yes YOU! Are you gonna be able to live with that on your conscious? Do YOU have children? What sir, would you do if GOD forbid, you ended up with a vaccine injured child? ??

  • How about if you actually read the articles on this site? And as well what has been reply posted.

  • Hans

    Because vaccines do not provide 100% protection and effectiveness may wane over time. This is not disputed by anyone. Guess what, seatbelts aren’t 100% effective either.

  • Shedding-ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO (and counting) scientific studies on vaccines and SHEDDING:
    http://medscienceresearch.com/shedding/

    Recently Vaccinated Shedding and Injuring Others
    http://medscienceresearch.com/recently-vaccinated-shedding-and-injuring-others/

  • Kim Jensen

    And you are doctor with a response like that? ? Is that big money that you make from pushing those vaccines like dope dealer worth it, sir? Really?? Well, in response to your car/seat belt comment, no one forces you to drink a glass poison before you get in the car, do they?

  • Michael Corbo

    Vaccines can and do cause autism. Don’t sign the paper. Find a new doctor. Your money is good anywhere. Do your research and find a pro health doctor or nurse practitioner.

  • Kim Jensen

    Yes my friend! Speak that truth!

  • In testing for fever causation, will they then as well test for anything but a just previous vaccine causation? And will they as well tell you give the child Tylenol, and which is absolutely the wrong and the incorrect answer in far to many cases?

    The medical textbook definition of an adverse vaccine reaction: (Merck Manual)

    Encephalitis (excerpted)

    Encephalitis is inflammation of the brain that occurs when a virus directly infects the brain or when a virus, vaccine, or something else triggers inflammation. The spinal cord may also be involved, resulting in a disorder called encephalomyelitis.

    People may have a fever, headache, or seizures, and they may feel sleepy, numb, or confused.

    Magnetic resonance imaging of the head and a spinal tap are usually done.

    Treatment involves relieving symptoms and sometimes using antiviral drugs.

    Encephalitis is most commonly due to viruses, such as herpes simplex, herpes zoster, cytomegalovirus, or West Nile virus. It can occur in the following ways:

    A virus directly infects the brain.

    A virus that caused an infection in the past becomes reactivated and directly damages the brain.

    A virus or vaccine triggers a reaction that makes the immune system attack brain tissue (an autoimmune reaction).

    Sometimes bacteria cause encephalitis, usually as part of bacterial meningitis (called meningoencephalitis).

    Autoimmune encephalitis
    After certain viral infections or vaccines, the body’s immune system sometimes attacks the layers of tissue that wrap around nerve fibers (called the myelin sheath) in the brain and spinal cord. The attack occurs because proteins in myelin resemble those in the virus. As a result, nerve transmission becomes very slow. The resulting disorder, called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, resembles multiple sclerosis except that symptoms do not come and go as they do in multiple sclerosis. The viruses most often involved include enteroviruses, Epstein-Barr virus, hepatitis A or B virus, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and influenza viruses.

    An autoimmune encephalitis may also develop if the immune system produces antibodies that attack proteins on the surface of nerve cells called N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. The resulting encephalitis is called anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis. Some evidence suggests that anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis is a more common type of encephalitis than was previously thought.

    Symptoms of Encephalitis
    Before symptoms of encephalitis start, people may have digestive symptoms, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or abdominal pain. Or they may feel as if they are getting a cold or the flu and have cough, fever, a sore throat, a runny nose, swollen lymph nodes, and muscle aches.

    Symptoms of encephalitis include

    Fever

    Headache

    Personality changes or confusion

    Seizures

    Paralysis or numbness

    Sleepiness that can progress to coma and death

    People may vomit and have a stiff neck, but these symptoms tend to be less common and less severe than when caused by meningitis.

    http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/brain-spinal-cord-and-nerve-disorders/brain-infections/encephalitis

    ——

    10 Signs of Vaccine Reaction and Damage

    #1 High-Pitched Crying or Arching Back

    High-pitched crying and discomfort, such as arching the back when laid down, is a clear indication of encephalitis, brain inflammation, which is a common vaccine reaction. Large amounts of bacteria, viruses, and toxins create a hyper- immune response, prompting severe, sometimes deadly, inflammation in the brain.

    If your child will not sleep, is uncomfortable, and crying incessantly post vaccination (up to 21 plus days), take them to the emergency room immediately.

    #2 Severe Swelling at Site

    Severe inflammation at the injection site can be a sign of an allergic reaction or other hyper- immune reaction. Review the vaccine insert (before vaccinating) and try to outline what allergy (peanut, milk, egg) may have been created. If your doctor cannot explain what reaction occurred, then you should consider not vaccinating to prevent any further damage.

    Read the vaccine insert before vaccinating, and be sure the doctor is using the correct method of injection. Injecting in the incorrect method can deliver a serious reaction.

    #3 High Fever and/or Febrile Seizures

    Tell me where in nature you would normally be exposed to upwards of ten bacteria and viruses at once? Nope, never. So when your child receives this many immune threats (accompanied by toxins) at once, your immune system goes into overdrive.

    This can produce a very high fever, and if the fever moves up or down in temperature fast enough, a febrile seizure. Head to the emergency room, and demand a review of your child’s health if a febrile seizure or fever lasting over 3 days is seen post vaccination, as other vaccine reactions are likely occurring.

    #4 Rash

    A rash is simply a toxin leaving your body through your skin. A rash post-vaccination can be caused by the virus vaccinated against (measles, for example), or an allergic reaction producing eczema. If your child develops a rash, monitor the child for the symptoms of the vaccinated virus or bacteria, and consider eliminating any possible allergies created by the vaccine. Your child may also be detoxing the large quantities of adjuvants in the vaccine through the skin.

    #5 Eczema, Allergies and Asthma

    Vaccines were designed to sensitize your immune system to viruses and bacteria. Although many immunologists and doctors warn that this process does not work the same via muscular and blood injection versus introducing a substance through normal means of the mouth, nose, and eyes (to pass through your immune system process regularly and the vast immune system in your gut), many still trust in the theory of vaccination.

    When you vaccinate, you are surely sensitizing your child to not only the bacteria and virus, but also the food and chemical additives in the vaccine, which include milk proteins, other human and animal proteins, egg, peanut and much more. If your vaccinated child develops eczema, allergies or asthma, which are all autoimmune responses to allergies, you need to consider stopping vaccination to not worsen the allergy.

    #6 Anaphylaxis and Slowed Breathing Patterns

    If your child’s breathing post vaccination (see suggestion below to get a breathing monitor and use overnight for at least one month following every round of vaccines, if you vaccinate) is delayed or slowed, it is cause to make a trip to the emergency room and check for allergic response or brain damage.

    Anaphylactic shock is also a common vaccine reaction, where your airways (or other body systems) go into shock from an autoimmune, allergic response. If your child has responded in this way to vaccines, it is time to stop, and review the possible allergies created.

    #7 Loss of Facial and Eye Symmetry and Itching/Numbness in Extremities

    When your immune system responds to a threat, it produces more white blood cells. Your white blood cells are substantially larger than your red, and this becomes an issue when your immune system is kicked into overdrive and delivers large quantities of white blood cells to your smallest blood vessels, your capillaries. Your capillaries are so small that white blood vessels have to squeeze through one by one.

    The smallest of these vessels are located in your hands, feet, nose and brain, particularly by the area which controls speech. When too many white blood cells are released, they cannot squeeze through and the blood and oxygen supply is limited for a period of time, and if severe enough, forever. This causes stroke in the brain, and can be seen by loss of facial asymmetry (one side of the face looks different than the other) and loss of tone around the eyes, cheeks, and mouth.

    You would also feel this, if happening in your extremities rather your brain, as tingling, burning or numbing. Your child may not be able to articulate this to you, but if you see them generally uncomfortable, struggling with using those parts, or pulling at the parts, I would consider a possible reaction and a trip to the emergency room.

    #8 Bacterial or Viral Infection

    As noted above, vaccines are designed to sensitize your system to a bacteria or virus. Theoretically, every time you vaccinate, you get that bacterial or viral illness. If your child falls ill post vaccination, bring them back to your pediatrician and demand that the child be examined for the illness against which they were vaccinated. It’s likely that your doctor will ignore your requests and be adamant that the vaccine cannot cause the disease.

    Vaccine-strain illnesses, such as asymptomatic measles, are often more serious than the wild version of the disease, so you need to be extra vigilant and require the doctor to treat your child. (If your doctor refuses, take your child to another doctor or to an emergency room. Pride is not a valid reason to not treat a child).

    #9 Vomiting and Diarrhea

    Since your child will be receiving the bacteria or viral illness vaccinated against, as well as a load of other toxins and allergenic substances, their bodies will try to detox these substances post vaccination. This is a vaccine reaction. If your child exhibits vomiting or diarrhea for a day or more post vaccination, have your doctor or an emergency room evaluate the child for the diseases against which they were vaccinated (and treat them for dehydration and the disease).

    #10 Behavioral Changes, Attention and Aggression Issues

    A normally functioning child does not regress (lose speech, lose eye contact and social interaction) for no reason. Heavy metal toxicity, loss of oxygen to critical areas of the brain and a body in constant hyper-immune response lead to a child who cannot function and develop.

    If you notice your child losing abilities once mastered, exhibiting attention or aggression issues, or withdrawing from social interaction, you are likely viewing a vaccine reaction. The good news is that there are many natural ways to detox and heal vaccine damage. Check out The Thinking Mom’s Revolution if this has happened to your child, and explore how you can truly heal against heavy metal, vaccine damage.

    If your child has had a vaccine reaction, it’s never too late to research vaccines and choose to build natural immunity and a healthy lifestyle instead. You should also look into detoxing from the vaccine toxins. If you still choose to vaccinate, consider a delayed schedule and using a breathing monitor.

    If you suspect damage, do not take “this could not be from the vaccine you had 3 days ago” from your doctor. Your child deserves better than a denial of clear symptoms because of pride. Find a doctor who is willing to help you, even if it’s a chiropractor, naturopath, or biomedical doctor.

    http://www.modernalternativehealth.com/2016/03/18/10-signs-of-vaccine-reaction-and-damage/

  • Direct truth, and annihilation; thank you.

  • Kim Jensen

    The fact that you, sir, are pushing these vaccines so hard makes me very suspicious of your intentions. I would like to know where you went to school and got your degree. How do I even know if you’re a doctor?

  • Michael Corbo

    Read the insert on a vaccine package. Vaccines cause brain damage. In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.

  • Michael Corbo

    I believe these trolls are paid to create confusion. They aren’t looking to be convinced, they are looking to cause harm to children of questioning parents.

  • The same thing as always, and with you vaccine shills making denial of it all, and with just more of the very same old in denial bullshit … just a different day.

  • Hans

    To add to JCG’s comments:
    Shingles is more common in older adults, who have natural immunity and never vaccinated.

    And please don’t spread this unfounded nonsense that “HPV has killed more young people than the cancer caused by the virus”.

    There is absolutely no link between autoimmune disease or cancer with Vit K. Zero. There is a direct link in lack of Vit K and hemorrhagic disease in newborns and death. A child’s immune system is exposed to exponentially more antigens sucking on their own thumb than they are by vaccines. Combined.

    SIDs rates have been decreasing dramatically ever since the “back to sleep” campaign. Autism is likely multifactorial, and much of the increased prevalence is very likely a result of increased awareness and screening. If so much time and resources wouldn’t be redirected to continuously debunking the retracted paper by Wakefield, perhaps researchers (those silly science based people who dedicate their lives to curing diseases) would be further along in their understanding the etiology of Autism.

    I will agree on your comments on the flu vaccine, but because the virus mutates every season there is nothing that can be done but make a best guess as to which strains will circulate. Protection rates vary every season, but any decrease in the burden of disease from influenza is significant when there are 12 000-56 000 a year in the US. The CDC has never stated the vaccine is ineffective, but that efficacy is not 100% and varies each year.

    I am not “pro-vaccine”, but pro-science and understand that science is not subjective.

  • Kim Jensen

    The REAL reason they want that form signed is so that, in a court of law, cps can and WILL try to take your children from you citing abuse/neglect for putting your child at risk for diseases.

  • Kim Jensen

    Do you have anything more current than the year 2000?

  • Hans

    So tired of this falsehood that Doctors make “big money pushing vaccines”. If this is the case, where has my check been all these years? Doctors are paid to help people and I’ll never understand why there are so many convinced that we’re secretly trying to harm your children. Its insane

  • Hans

    This is not why they have you sign this form. Can you cite a single case that this has happened? If your child dies because you neglected to provide reasonable health care you will be at fault. Good intentions or not.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941

  • Kim Jensen

    We parents used to believe in doctors. Your word was law to us. Please understand that we do believe that most doctors DO care about people and really do want to help them. However, YOU took that oath to take care of the ill to the best of your ability. Did you not? You can learn something new every day. We all can. Here on this forum you see a bunch of extremely concerned, afraid parents. What are you going to do when you come across parents like this in your practice? Why don’t YOU yourself take it upon yourself, and do some research of your own about the dangers of vaccines?

  • Let the readers decided for themselves, and not decide this from and by some twisted and warped big pharma shillary in denial interpretation, of the studies.

    PHARMA DEATH CLOCK

    TOTAL DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE JANUARY 1, 2000…

    BIG PHARMA’S CHEMICAL WARFARE ON HUMANITY DWARFS THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS KILLED BY ALL WORLD WARS AND ACTS OF TERRORISM COMBINED…

    While drug companies profit billions, people are dying by the millions.

    http://pharmadeathclock.com/

    MEDICINE KILLS MILLIONS (direct data and statistics)
    http://medicinekillsmillions.com/

    Conventional Medicine is the Leading Cause of Death
    https://draxe.com/conventional-medicine-is-the-leading-cause-of-death/

    Pharmacopoeia …the sorceries of Babylon
    https://discernthetime.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/pharmaceuticals-the-sorceries-of-babylon/

    PHARMACEUTICALS – THE SORCERIES OF BABYLON
    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2014/01/pharmaceuticals-sorceries-of-babylon.html

    Pharmakeia (aka sorceries) of Babylon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L-qSVqg37E

    The Lucifarian … Attack.

    King James Bible
    And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. http://biblehub.com/revelation/18-23.htm

    King James Bible
    And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    Revelation 18: 23, “By Thy Sorceries Were All Nations Deceived.”
    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/on-revelation-18-23-by-thy-sorceries-were-all-nations-deceived.7728322/

    These 13 Corporations Are “Big Pharma”: Their History, Crimes, and Products
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSRwhceBxk

    Our Stories
    SSRI Stories is a collection of over 6,000 stories that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) in which prescription drugs were mentioned and in which the drugs may be linked to a variety of adverse outcomes including violence.

    https://ssristories.org/

    Western Medicine is Rockefeller Medicine – All The Way
    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/western-medicine-rockefeller-medicine/

    Benjamin Rush
    U.S. Founding Father, Signer of The Declaration of Independence
    (1746-1813)

    Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.

    http://www.all-creatures.org/quotes/rush_benjamin.html

    Generation SICK: The Power, Politics and Propaganda Behind America’s Health Crisis Paperback – January 10, 2016
    by Dr. Vic Naumov (Author)
    https://www.amazon.com/Generation-SICK-Politics-Propaganda-Americas/dp/0996960406

    This really looks bad for you pro-vaccine and bought off pharma shills. You can deny it all you want.

  • Kim Jensen

    So are you saying that you DO NOT get a chunk money for every vaccination?

  • Hans

    I vaccinate my own children with zero hesitation. That is the most accurate litmus test a doctor can demonstrate.

  • Kim Jensen

    You’re the doctor here. Give us 1 good reason why we should have our children vaccinated. Other than what is told to us about vaccines preventing disease.

  • Kim Jensen

    Give me a bit to get that for you.

  • Hans

    I am paid fully $10.30 to give a flu shot. I practice in Canada where public health nurse administer routine childhood vaccines. So aside from that whopping ten bucks, I am not paid to vaccinate or recommend vaccinations. Nothing.

  • Hans

    Because vaccines prevent disease.

  • You are trying to make this to narrowly focused on, and overly simplified; and the evidence, and the existing data is clearly much more extensive than that. You know what, those 2000, and 2003 studies certainly did not find it all, and there exists a situation that is much worse than that, and because most of it is entirely cover-up, and such studies would never find it all.

  • So how are severe vaccine reactions and resulting disability, ruled out? Oh, that’s right, doctors refuse to even consider it; and nor is it reported to VAERS. Political incorrectness and self thinking is not allowed.

  • Kim Jensen

    Read some of the stories on medicalkidnap.com

  • Kim Jensen

    I really do hope that you do more research on this subject. Have you read about the vaccine injured stories? Do you think that people are making this up?

  • Yes.

  • Kim Jensen

    I don’t disagree. But did you ever think that maybe we’re all being lied to? How would it make you feel if discovered that this is all fact? There are doctors with vaccine injured children. Research it. What’s it going to hurt to just do research of your own?

  • You can find them all on the Gorski blogs, and as well SR. I have said the same thing many times; and that they all need to be kicked out, and for the failure to progress with anything that is in an honest and diligent form. Cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonest have no place in the actual realization and the determination of vaccine truth.

  • Unless they are determined to be dishonest, seriously biased, delusion-ed, and obvious vaccine and big pharma shill . . .liars. Then the informational counter war is on.

  • And you actually and only *sigh . . . at the provided and obvious truth that is put in front of you?

  • What a shameless …LIAR. Please actually educate yourself. There is more directly false vaccine propaganda in that reply, than you can imagine. I guarantee you that are NOT actually pro-science, and I can tell you directly that you do not even know what real science is. If you did, you would already know how many unbiased and independent studies have fully supported our position directly, and on the issues that you just mentioned.

  • So you don’t see the massive corruption, and that you have been entirely duped. Don’t forget as well that these are as well now since 1987, no legal liability vaccines for anyone that is involved. No worries about being sued for a highly reactive and vaccine injury damaging vaccine.

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

  • Vaccines have never eradicated any illness, and that which you call, disease. Vaccines create illness and a multitude of physiological disorders. And guess what, and which all of it is again attempted to be treated by big pharma, and at a major profit. Vaccines are most harmful and corrupt lie, and as well complete falsification in terms of existing false propaganda, that has even been perpetrated upon humanity.

  • So you just talked out of both sides of your face, and you as well just admitted it. So what happens then, and if you deny that the known corrupt CPS will take your child, and for so called medical neglect and specifically in regard to not vaccinating your child? Nothing? The desperation of vaccine pushing powers that be, are getting more and more desperate. That with CPS and as well in pushing mandatory vaccination, globally. Its like they clearly know that so many children have become vaccine injured, and that the awareness and parental independent research of the truth level is increasing so rapidly that they must do anything at all and that they can in the attempt to shut it all down. So do you think that as well is just only some conspiracy theory, and with no basis in reality and truth?

  • Vaccine Ingredients and Manufacturer Information
    (alphabetical order by vaccine)
    https://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206

  • How about if you stopped trying to stereotype vaccine truth people into a dumb and tiny little box, and actually looked at the unbiased and independent existing vaccine safety study science, for yourself? You won’t find that on the CDC, AAP, and the Paul Offit …CHOP sites. Do you know at all what independent and unbiased research is? How much of that have you ever done, and/or refused to accept?

  • This one of many sources. How about if you just went to Pubmed and spent some time looking at all that is there? This is just a small sample of what I have actually see and read for studies. I as well have extensively looked at both sides of the studies

    Vaccine Papers
    An Objective Look at Vaccine Dangers
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

    And more. Don’t attempt to just falsely discredit the sources that collected the studies from the journals; actually read the studies that are there.

    Med Science Research – 152 scientific studies on vaccines and SHEDDING:
    http://medscienceresearch.com/shedding/

    Med Science Research
    There are thousands of scientific studies in the medical literature on the dangers of vaccines. Database – Featured Studies
    http://medscienceresearch.com/

    The History of the Global Vaccination Program
    1000 Peer Reviewed Reports and Studies (showing directly the harm of vaccines) 1915 to 2015
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mMkPwF1DUPckVEZ2JkMXV2ams/view

    Vaccine Information Library
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8t3hsp36beb1lg7/AAC6oimKxTF4G-spL216vJ6Ua?dl=0

    130 Research papers supporting Vaccine/Autism Causation
    https://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/130-Research-Papers-Supporting-the-Vaccine-Autism-Link

    50 Studies the AAP Avoided to Mention, (going back to 1995)
    http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/studies.html

    Full Text Vaccine Studies/Downloads
    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/full-text-studies

    200 Evidence-Based Reasons NOT To Vaccinate – FREE Research PDF Download!
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download

    Relevant Database Sections
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/guide/health-guide-vaccine-research

    Learn The Risk-SIDS
    https://www.learntherisk.org/sids/

    SEIZURES & VACCINES
    https://www.learntherisk.org/seizures/

    STUDIES
    https://www.learntherisk.org/studies/

    First Medical Research Textbook Linking Vaccines to Autoimmunity
    http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/first-medical-textbook-devoted-to-research-linking-vaccines-to-autoimmunity

    9 Questions For The Pro-vaxxers

    1. Where are the safety studies regarding the vaccine safety of the current CDC vaccine schedule?

    2 Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the known practice of injecting a small child with from 5 and up to nine or more vaccines, in a single day and office visit?

    3. Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to the safety of injecting vaccine aluminum adjuvants?

    4. Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the practice of injecting both vaccines with attenuated live viruses in them, together with as well killed vaccines with aluminum adjuvants in them.

    5. Where are the studies showing the vaccine safety of vaccines which are contaminated with human diploid cell short and long chain DNA contaminants, due to the use of human diploid tissue in the growing of the vaccine antigens in childhood vaccines? Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to any other vaccine that has been known to be contaminated with the substances that the vaccine antigen was grown on, and from?

    6. Where are the vaccinated verses entirely un-vaccinated health outcome studies? Thousands of children still exist in the US, with active vaccine exemptions. The Amish community as well have had thousands of un-vaccinated children within their communities. Just because a small group of Amish were falsely fear mongered into vaccinating and ended up at a clinic in the attempt to diagnose and treat resulting childhood autism; does not mean that the entire Amish community vaccinates, and has been falsely eluded to. Obviously there is no need to not vaccinate, simply to do this study.

    7. In regard to the MMR vaccine. How does the CDC as well continue to ignore this long list of studies showing the harmful effects of, the vaccine injury effects of; and as well in these studies there as well appears be an obvious MMR connection to autism? The controversy does not only revolve around a single 1998 study by Wakefield, and as well a single study connected to the CDC’s, William Thompson. And the so called official word that they tell you is that any vaccine/autism link has been dis-proven, and debunked; right? Really? Lets look further.

    8. Can you explain how it is possible in regard to the comparisons of systemic adverse reactions, for the FDA in the review and in the approval of vaccines through clinical trials, to allow the substitution of saline placebo, a replacement such as other similar vaccines which the FDA has previously approved as safe? If big pharma and the CDC are going to re-assure their claim to the public that vaccines are safe; then why are not real saline placebos required in the comparison of systemic reactions. Lets as well look at the clinical trials on Gardasil. One placebo was the aluminum adjuvant, and the other appears to be HPV virus like particles, in the vaccines carrier solution. It is all in the over 400 page document that Merck submitted to the FDA on their said Gardasil clinical trials. No wonder the comparison between the vaccine and placebo graphs appear to be so similar. And with this going on, the public is actually supposed to retain their assurances of proven vaccine safety? I think not.

    9. Are you aware of the fact that SV40 a known contaminant in the early 1960’s polio vaccine, is still being found in children today, and which are to young to have ever had that known contaminated vaccine? SV40 is as well known to cause benign tumors, and cancer. Are you as well aware of the fact that vaccines today still contain the unresolved risk of there being contaminants in them that can cause and create adverse health effects? Contaminants from any once living animal, or human cell source, on which the vaccine antigens were grown on and from. This is clearly a remaining unresolved problem, and as witnessed again in regard to the vaccine Gardasil.

    Lets also take a look at the existing studies that allegedly show no connection between vaccines and autism. Actually, general vaccine injury, and immunological harm done, and without the evidence of autism, is an equally as serious an issue.

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    And, what did they study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them being independent and nor unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    14 Studies
    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

  • It is not unethical when there is clearly already existing a double blind control group that has not been vaccinated. You deny this.

  • Fascinating explanation.

  • Just more shameless HPV vaccine pushing misinformation reply posted by a vaccine shill.

    GARDASIL INJURY STORIES
    LIVES LOST
    PARENTS SPEAK
    VICTIMS VIDEO’S
    http://www.mygardasilstory.com/

    HPV Vaccine VAERS Reports
    DESCRIPTION TOTAL
    Disabled 1,974
    Deaths 324
    Did Not Recover 9,686
    Abnormal Pap Smear 618
    Cervical Dysplasia 279
    Cervical Cancer 129
    Life Threatening 825
    Emergency Room 14,518
    Hospitalized 4,795
    Extended Hosp. Stay 321
    Serious 6,836
    Total Adverse Events 51,522

    http://sanevax.org/

    February, 2012: The Limits of VAERS

    Underreporting. Because the reports are submitted voluntarily, many patients and doctors do not report vaccine reactions. Different estimates exist for the amount of underreporting and range from a factor of 10 to as much as a factor of 100 (meaning that the true number of vaccine reactions is between 10 and 100 times higher than what is reported to VAERS).

    Read more:
    http://www.medalerts.org/analysis/archives/504

    Hiding Vaccine-Related Deaths With Semantic Sleight-of-Hand
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/what-we-do/hiding-vaccine-related-deaths-semantic-sleight-hand/

    Electronic Support for Public Health–Vaccine Adverse
    Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS)
    https://healthit.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf

    Still want this HPV vaccine Gardasil, for your son or daughter …wake up!!!

    This is just a tiny snapshot of the pain and suffering occurring WORLDWIDE right after the Gardasil injection. We do not need more “studies” and more mindless meetings to use our COMMON SENSE and see that this mass-poisoning of our children must be put to an end!
    https://www.facebook.com/RevolutionForChoice/videos/vb.120381895036072/270725100001750/?type=2&theater&comment_id=164031500826815&notif_t=video_reply&notif_id=1502738127072157

    Molecular mimicry, original antigen sin, and Quantifying the possible cross-reactivity risk of an HPV16 vaccine.

    This study would explain again directly the HPV vaccine caused autoimmune disorders that have been known of and as well possibly some of the adverse reactions and un-recovered from outcomes related to both HPV vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix.

    The standard pharma directed version immunologists have simply ignored the issue of molecular mimicry, in regard to the development and use of vaccines. As well the second most irresponsible form of neglect that immunologists ignore in regard to vaccine production, is the issue and concept known as original antigenic sin. The original antigenic sin issue only involves vaccine deriving immunity, and not natural immunity.

    Quantifying the possible cross-reactivity risk of an HPV16 vaccine.
    Kanduc D. J Exp Ther Oncol. 2009.

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND: The potential adverse events associated with vaccination for infectious diseases underscore the need for effective analysis and definition of possible vaccine side effects. Using the HPV16 proteome as a model, we quantified the actual and theoretical risks of anti-HPV16 vaccination, and defined the potential disease spectrum derived from concomitant cross-reactions with the human organism.

    METHODS: We searched the primary sequence of the HPV16 proteome for heptamer aminoacid sequences shared with human proteins using the Protein International Resource database.

    RESULTS: The human proteome contains 82 heptapeptides and two octapeptides found in HPV16. The viral matches are spread among proteins involved in fundamental processes, such as cell differentiation and growth and neurosensory regulation. The human proteins containing the HPV16-derived heptamers include cell-adhesion molecules, leukocyte differentiation antigens, enzymes, proteins associated with spermatogenesis, transcription factors, and neuronal antigens. The number of viral matches and their locations make the occurrence of side autoimmune cross-reactions in the human host following HPV16-based vaccination almost unavoidable.

    CONCLUSIONS: Any antigen-based vaccine needs to be carefully and thoroughly designed and critically screened for potential side effects by comparing sequence similarity at the molecular level.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19827272/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19827272/?ncbi_mmode=std (link as it stands in Pubmed)

    Molecular Mimicry as a Mechanism of Autoimmune Disease

    Abstract
    A variety of mechanisms have been suggested as the means by which infections can initiate and/or exacerbate autoimmune diseases. One mechanism is molecular mimicry, where a foreign antigen shares sequence or structural similarities with self-antigens. Molecular mimicry has typically been characterized on an antibody or T cell level. However, structural relatedness between pathogen and self does not account for T cell activation in a number of autoimmune diseases. A proposed mechanism that could have been misinterpreted for molecular mimicry is the expression of dual T cell receptors (TCR) on a single T cell. These T cells have dual reactivity to both foreign and self-antigens leaving the host vulnerable to foreign insults capable of triggering an autoimmune response. In this review, we briefly discuss what is known about molecular mimicry followed by a discussion of the current understanding of dual TCRs. Finally, we discuss three mechanisms, including molecular mimicry, dual TCRs and chimeric TCRs, by which dual reactivity of the T cell may play a role in autoimmune diseases.

    Read more:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3266166/

    Original Antigenic Sin Committed by Vaccination
    By Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk – VRAN Newsletter, Fall 2013
    http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/resources/books-periodicals/original-antigenic-sin-committed-by-vaccination/

    Updated, augmented vaccines compete with original antigenic sin – Gardasil

    In late December 2014, Sony Salzman, a 25-year-old living in New York City, heard about the approval of Gardasil 9, the latest human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine created by Merck, and called her gynecologist to ask about the vaccine. Having been vaccinated eight years ago with the previous version, simply called Gardasil, Salzman was interested in receiving the improved version of the vaccine. “But the folks at the doctor’s office had no idea there was even a new version,” Salzman says.

    Chalking their ignorance up to the relative newness of the vaccine—it had only been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on 10 December—Salzman waited and then asked again in
    April 2015. “I didn’t get a very clear answer on whether I could get the vaccine,” Salzman says. “

    What worries some researchers is that individuals who already received vaccination against HPV will not respond to the augmented vaccine version with more strains because of an immunological concept known as ‘original antigenic sin.’

    Gardasil challenge When it comes to the label recommendation for revaccination with Gardasil 9, some questions loom. In February, the ACIP voted to recommend Gardasil 9 as one of three possible vaccines a person could get to help prevent HPV infection or one of the cancers caused by the virus. However, the ACIP meeting in February was cut short owing to weather concerns, so the discussion surrounding revaccination was postponed.

    Consequently, the topic of revaccination with Gardasil 9 may come up at the end of June when the ACIP will have the second of its three annual meetings in Atlanta.

    The current indication for Gardasil 9, which was approved by the FDA in December 2014, is for boys and girls who have never been vaccinated with any type of HPV vaccine before.

    Merck has tested Gardasil 9 in girls and women who have already received the older, quadrivalent version of Gardasil, but so far these tests have only looked at safety and immunogenicity.

    Preliminary unpublished results from this trial showed that the production of antibodies against the four viral types common to both versions of the vaccine increased slightly in this group
    compared with those who received Gardasil 9 and had never been previously immunized against HPV. However, antibody titers against the five added viral strains in Gardasil 9 among the former group were only 25% and 63% of that seen in people who received Gardasil 9 alone.

    Merck is reluctant to provide advice on revaccination on the basis of these preliminary results. “We don’t know what [the reduced antibody titer] means,” Vichnin says. “This information is provided to physicians and patients, and it’s an individual decision.”

    The ACIP has also hesitated to make a recommendation. “There’s some data but it’s mostly safety data,” Markowitz says. “But there’s not an indication for revaccination on the label [of the vaccine].” There have been cost-effectiveness data collected by the CDC but they haven’t been formally presented yet.

    Read more:
    http://moscow.sci-hub.cc/304d0ce5621349c755e6db81da6f1231/chakradhar2015.pdf

  • Stace325

    It’s the parents decision whether or not to vaccinate their children. There is no guarantee that vaccines work – all vaccine drug inserts state this. If they did work, booster vaccines (3+) at regular intervals would not be necessary. The possible side affects/effects(?) are worse than the disease. All vaccine drug inserts list side affects. Vaccines destroy the bodies natural immune system. That’s easy enough for you to google and validate. If vaccines are safe why was pharma relieved of any responsibility should the vaccine cause harm, serious damage, and even death to the vaccinated. Would you buy a new car if the warranty stated no one is responsible for any possible defects; if the brakes fail – too bad! if we forgot to put oil in the engine or put transmission fluid in the coolant system – too bad. Any business that refuses to stand behind their products is suspect.

  • Ron Roy

    ”Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.” A sound bite often use by vaccine / poison pusher when they’re stumped for an answer.

  • Ron Roy
  • Ruth

    I guess you are not keeping up with the science, let alone the facts. It’s really quite sad.

  • Ruth

    I think many of these trolls are motivated by money. They are basically paid marketers. But not everyone who blindly accepts what they are supposed to do is a troll. They’ve just been mislead.

  • JGC

    ‘If they did work, booster vaccines (3+) at regular intervals would not be necessary”

    Nonsense–contracting some infections (e.g., pertussis) doesn’t always provide permanent immunity thereafter, so there’s no reason to presume vaccines against these infections will do so.

    “The possible side affects/effects(?) are worse than the disease”

    What adverse events associated vaccination occur more frequently and are as damaging as the adverse events associated with infectious diseases?

    Consider encephalopathy: MMR vaccination is seen to cause 1 excess case of encephalopathy for every 1 million vaccinations given. Measles, on the other hand, is seen to cause 1 excess case for every 1000 people infected.

    “Vaccines destroy the bodies natural immune system. That’s easy enough for you to google and validate.”

    Far easier still for you to support your own claim since you must know exactly where the evidence which led you to this conclusion can be found (in other words, citations needed).

    ” If vaccines are safe why was pharma relieved of any responsibility should the vaccine cause harm, serious damage, and even death to the vaccinated”

    First, they have not ben relieved of any responsibility should a vaccine cause harm: they can still be sued for manufacturing and labeling defects.

    Second, the NVICP was set up to ensure the uninterrupted availability of vaccines critical to the nation’s public health, at a time when companies were abandoning the development and production of vaccines because it had become economically nonviable: the cost of defending against law suits, even though defense was successful, had become unsustainable.

    ” Would you buy a new car if the warranty stated no one is responsible for any possible defects; if the brakes fail – too bad! if we forgot to put oil in the engine or put transmission fluid in the coolant system – too bad”

    This isn’t analogous to the NVICP system: in a system like the NVICP a brake failure or omitted coolant would be manufacturing defects for which the auto maker would be liable.
    If you want an automotive analogy that reflects the court system, it would be “Would you buy a new car if you knew that should you suffer an injury unrelated to the operation of the vehicle you would receive compensation, as long as the injury occurred shortly after operating the vehicle?”

  • JGC

    Lowell, you do realize that HPV Vaccine VAERS Reports are just that–reports of adverse events that occurred after receiving an HPV vaccine–and not evidence that the HPV vaccine caused the reported events? The VAERS database managers go to some length to ensure everyone accessing the database realize this.
    Re Suzanne Humphries, that wouldn’t be the same Suzanne Humphries who is entry #783 in the Encyclopedia of American Loons? Who is an advocate of homeopathy (AKA ‘magic water’)? Who believes that kidney failure is caused by vaccines based on nothing more than anecdotal accounts and an intuitive feeling?
    That Suzanne Humphries?

  • JGC

    No: I don’t. In a prospective study members of the group you describe–people who have never been vaccinated–would be enrolled and randomly sorted into two cohorts. One cohort would receive actual vaccinations and the other receive placebo vaccinations.
    The subjects, the people giving the injections, and the people recording outcomes would all be blinded with regard to who received an actual vaccine.
    Any way you look at this such a study would be unethical. If there is reason to believe that vaccines are unsafe, it would be unethical to place the vaccinated cohort at risk by inoculating them. If you believe that vaccines are safe and effective, it would be unethical to place the unvaccinated cohort at increased risk of contracting a serious infectious disease.
    If you’re suggesting we simply compare outcomes in people who are already either vaccinated or unvaccinated, that would be a retrospective study, and they’ve been done at very large scale by multiple independent researchers and public and private public health agencies operating in multiple nations for decades. None have found evidence suggesting that the risk associated with being vaccinated exceeds the risk of remaining vulnerable to infectious diseases.

  • JGC

    I’ve read all these< Lowell. My favorite is probably the first one on your list, which argues we should increase the amount of aluminum adjuvants present in vaccine formulations to be safe (“Remarkably, the study found that the lowest dosage (200 mcg/Kg) was the most toxic! The 400 and 800 mcg/Kg dosages produced no statistically significant effects, but the 200 mcg/Kg dosage did.”)
    None of these offer actual evidence demonstrating that the risk associated with vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection.
    But I’ll tell you what, just to be sure I’m not overlooking actual hard evidence in support of your claim: identify the paper on this list that you personally believe makes most credible and compelling case against vaccine safety and we’ll discuss it.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Stace, do not feed the trolls from Gorski’s scienceblog/skeptical raptor sites. They just repeat what you said and then fill the spaces between with standard provaxx garbage. It is only 10 min since you posted, and 2 of them already upvoted JGC post. It is about 20 co/trolls employed by Gorski, but some of them may be multiple accounts of the same troll. Judging how fast Hans and Fellgel upvoted JGC, it is the same person on 3 accounts. He posts, then upvotes himself immediately, The style is absolutely the same under all accounts. Possibly it is Gorski himself, as he is known as obsessive crazy internet addict. He is very well paid for provaxx trolling, and is serving Offit, and possibly Dorit Reiss (google both of them)

  • JGC

    “You won’t find that on the CDC, AAP, and the Paul Offit ”

    What do you suggest I consider other than the scientific evidence–anecdotal accounts? You-tube rants? reading entrails?

    “Do you know at all what independent and unbiased research is? How much of that have you ever done, and/or refused to accept?”
    I’ve been doing unbiased research for four decades, Lowell. In science you go where the data leads, whether you like the direction or not.

  • JGC

    That sounds like a no, as the CDC doesn’t author package inserts.

  • JGC

    I have, which is why I’m moved to ask for actual evidence.

  • FallsAngel

    Yes, he knows that, or at least has been told many times.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Their purpose is to make your and other good posts not visible. Can you put your excellent long post (that is now on the bottom) to the top. And do not answer them. These group has been thrown out from other health news sites, but here they roam uncontrolled and fill all the space with typed garbage.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Jeffry, the best thing would be just delete all posts from Gorsky’s minions at the end of the day. I sometimes go to vactruth for references and links, i.e Lowell posts a lot of valuable information, but with Gorski’s troll posting tons of garbage, the discussion board quickly becomes unreadable.These is what these people are paid for. Other sites, like naturalnews block the whole company from their discussion board.

  • You are missing a qualifying statement: surgery is not mandatory for everyone. If you are an MD as you state that you are, you should be able to objectively see the fault in your reasoning.

  • They get paid to do that, but their sickness must still be countered here, and with the truth. The trolls are not going to be allowed to attempt to entirely control anything, and nor rule these articles with their misinformation trash, lying denial, and the continued false vaccine propaganda that they post and reply with. For as long as the articles moderator continues to allow that to happen, we will be here and defending against it..

  • So tell me where did you, or do you think you acquired your assumed expert education on vaccines? Can you tell me directly how, and where that was? You must be really special and acquired something that otherwise doesn’t even exist within the pharma medical circles. Where did that happen?

    Are Doctors Experts On Vaccines?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0Br6YXlEA

    How much does Medical School teach about Vaccines?
    Six doctors who have administered vaccines in their practiced are all asked the same question. When you were in medical school, how much education regarding vaccines was provided before you were permitted to administer them?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rp9YNMNlxQ

    “Consult Your Doctor” on Vaccines? Medical Doctors Receive Little to No Training on Vaccines in Medical School
    https://vaccineimpact.com/2016/consult-your-doctor-on-vaccines-medical-doctors-receive-little-to-no-training-on-vaccines-in-medical-school/

    How Much Is Taught on Vaccines In Medical School? Forrest Maready
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQvtnQ7VXA

    Doctors Earn $3.5 Billion in Kickbacks from Pharmaceutical Companies
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/doctors-earn-3-5-billion-in-kickbacks-from-pharmaceutical-companies/

    Ask Your Doctor: Are You Being Bribed to Recommend Vaccines?

    There are not-so-subtle financial incentives that drive doctors to become vaccine pushers. I have read that pediatricians can earn a significant percentage of their income from vaccination, meaning, vaccines they push vaccines on their patients to keep a positive balance sheet. After all, a medical practice is a business, with sizable expenses such as malpractice insurance, staff salaries and rent. For physicians who are employees of a hospital system, there are fee quotas to meet so they can receive bonuses. Many of the vaccines in the inventory are expensive (for example, Gardasil and MMR) and some have very short expiration dates (i.e., flu shots and Flumist). Purchased vaccines need to be administered for costs to be recouped, and adding a shot, or shots, to a routine office visit generates more revenue. There is little doubt that financial pressures play a role in the thought process of those who push vaccination.

    Even if they are not fans of vaccines, many doctors give vaccines out of fear. They do not want to question authority or challenge professional organizations and licensing bodies, such as state medical boards, the very organizations that develop and enforce vaccines mandates. From the very beginning of medical education, bright, aspiring medical students, interns and residents are taught to do as they are told, follow orders and not confront the status quo. Doctors-in-training who challenge the system or dare to think independently are often punished with more work or publically humiliated in front of their peers. Early on, they get the message they better tow the Party Line if they want to survive. Later, when in their individual practices, doctors who buck the system and don’t vaccinate, or vaccinate less aggressively, often suffer penalties such as losing hospital privileges, being dropped from insurance company rosters or being ostracized by their peers.

    Read more:
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/02/bribery-affects-vaccination-rates.aspx

    Financial Incentive for Doctors to fully vaccinate patients?
    http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/vaccines/do-doctors-have-financial-incentive-get-their-patients-fully-vaccinated

    Ask Your Doctor: Are You Being Bribed to Recommend Vaccines?
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/02/bribery-affects-vaccination-rates.aspx

  • Part two:

    No don’t just try to falsely discredit the sources that acquired these studies from the existing health care journals, but actually read the studies. Obviously as well you have failed yourself in doing any independent and unbiased Pubmed search’s for those studies.

    Vaccine Papers
    An Objective Look at Vaccine Dangers
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

    Med Science Research – 32 scientific studies on vaccines and SHEDDING:

    Shedding
    http://medscienceresearch.com/shedding/

    The History of the Global Vaccination Program
    1000 Peer Reviewed Reports and Studies (showing directly the harm of vaccines) 1915 to 2015
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mMkPwF1DUPckVEZ2JkMXV2ams/view

    Vaccine Information Library
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8t3hsp36beb1lg7/AAC6oimKxTF4G-spL216vJ6Ua?dl=0

    130 Research papers supporting Vaccine/Autism Causation
    https://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/130-Research-Papers-Supporting-the-Vaccine-Autism-Link

    50 Studies the AAP Avoided to Mention, (going back to 1995)
    http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/studies.html

    Med Science Research
    There are thousands of scientific studies in the medical literature on the dangers of vaccines. Database – Featured Studies
    http://medscienceresearch.com/

    Full Text Vaccine Studies/Downloads
    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/full-text-studies

    200 Evidence-Based Reasons NOT To Vaccinate – FREE Research PDF Download!
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download

    Relevant Database Sections
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/guide/health-guide-vaccine-research

    Learn The Risk – SIDS
    https://www.learntherisk.org/sids/

    SEIZURES & VACCINES
    https://www.learntherisk.org/seizures/

    STUDIES
    https://www.learntherisk.org/studies/

    Vaccines are NOT the cause of SIDS…except when the federal government says they are and compensates parents accordingly (this is a ruling from last month, July 2017):

    “After carefully analyzing and weighing all of the evidence and testimony presented in this case in accordance with the applicable legal standards, the undersigned finds that petitioners have met their legal burden. Petitioners have put forth preponderant evidence that the vaccines J.B. received on September 2, 2011 actually caused or substantially contributed to his death from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Furthermore, respondent has failed to put forth preponderant evidence that J.B.’s death was in fact caused by factors unrelated to the vaccines. Accordingly, petitioners are entitled to compensation.”

    https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013vv0611-73-0

    First Medical Research Textbook Linking Vaccines to Autoimmunity
    http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/first-medical-textbook-devoted-to-research-linking-vaccines-to-autoimmunity

    What’s Really Behind Mandatory Vaccines?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OfX7CTdXio

    Gardasil HPV vaccine killed my daughter
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWDKvXkEJFY

    HPV Gardasil vaccine injured my daughter
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwa_0ZTALI

    4 month vaccinations killed my baby, (and the doctors will deny it all)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUMIWcqlfTw

  • The now endless numbers of parents of vaccine injured children, and those that lost infants and small children to vaccines, do not care about any of your stupid, post hoc ergo procter hoc . . . nonsense. The actual fallacy is found in the claim that vaccines are safe, and additionally in the false and ridiculous number of there being claimed an only one in a million doses, risk. All of it is based on obvious and majorly insufficient data.

  • Then you better keep on reading all of the replies that I have made here.

  • JGC

    How have those parents established the injuries they believe the vaccines their children received caused actually did cause those injuries, on any basis other than a post hoc ergo procter hoc logical fallacy?

    “The actual fallacy is found in the claim that vaccines are safe, and additionally in the false and ridiculous number of there being claimed an only one in a million doses, risk.”
    That’s 1 excess case of encephalopathy for every 1 million vaccine doses delivered. If you have any actual evidence demonstrating the incidence is greater than that I’d certainly wish to consider it.

  • And if one of your children were ever obviously vaccine injured, would you still deny it? Or would you as a doctor go crying to the real vaccine educator’s that do the vaccine truth seminars, and tell them that you hated them, and that you did not believe them; but now you know and they do speak the truth, and in that you strongly encourage them to keep on doing what they are doing? Believe me, I would not have made this statement if I did not know of that actually happening; and it has.

  • JGC

    As I’ve said, I’ve examined the papers listed at your VaccinePapers link and found no evidence demonstrating the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection.

    I don’t know why you’re offering 32 papers regarding viral shedding as shedding attenuated vaccine strain viruses would not result in the spread of infectious disease. If it did, then we would see the nations with the highest vaccine uptake exhibiting the highest incidence of infectious disease, and instead we see the exact opposite.

    I’m hesitant to consider anything associated with Holocaust denier Jeff Prager, but I have waded through “The History Of The Global Vaccination Program” before and find that Prager’s rounded up the usual suspects (Russell Blaylock, Harold Buttram, Mary Holland) and cherry picked a selection of studies he feels advance his cause. I haven’t found any in his selection that offer evidence demonstrating vaccines do more harm than good as he claims.

    Again, if you indicate which paper in “The History Of The Global Vaccination Program” you believe presents the strongest evidence indicating that’s the case we can discuss it in more depth.

    re: the scribd list of “130 Research papers supporting Vaccine/Autism Causation”? they don’t. For details regarding how they fail see http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/08/-those-lists-of-papers-that-claim-vaccines-cause-autism-part-1.html

    We also have a list of anti-vax or alt-med sites, and for some reason I note you’ve attached a number of youtube video links–whatever for? You are aware that youtube isn’t the forum in which working scientists and medical professionals report their finding and offer or defend the conclusions drawn from them, and that youtube videos are not subject to fact-checking or peer review? You can find videos on youtube ‘proving’ 9/11 was an inside job or that chemtrails are real, for god’s sake.
    This Gish-Gallop listing of papers that don’t actually offer the evidence being asked for isn’t advancing your argument. I again suggest we instead consider individual papers that you believe make the strongest case against the safety and efficacy of routine vaccination.

  • JGC

    I don’t claim to be an expert in vaccines. I have on the other hand been employed as a research biologist/immunologist/molecular biologist for about 4 decades, have a handful of publications indexed in PubMed, etc. I’m well read in the actual scientific literature addressing vaccine safety and efficacy.
    Further, I don’t ask anyone to accept anything I say as valid based on presumed expertise or authority but on the basis of the evidence I offer in support of my positions.
    Now, I see you’re continuing to link to you-tube video’s, alt-med websites, etc. rather than provide actual evidence supporting your claims. have you got nothing else to offer?

  • And you are a flat out LIAR …period. As well the liz type pad info does nothing to discredit or refute those studies; and I have read through and looked directly at that before. You are noting but a shameless liar. And then you just continue on with your falsely stereotyping, personally attacking, and attempted falsely discrediting nonsense, to include referring to and calling any list of vaccine truth information put in front of you, as only so called gish-galloping. Typical vaccine shill response, and only to move on again with ignoring all those studies, and in demanding that it all be censored and narrowed down to a single study, or a small selection of individual papers. All of it because you are to lazy to actually consider and focus on it all as a package, and educate yourself. That is your job, not mine. You should have done that and before you made a single reply here.

  • But you did just claim in your previous reply post to be an expert on vaccines and in your acclaimed decades of research. I asked you from where, and now you are back peddling? You JGC do not have any basis of the evidence to offer in support of your position, period. And you simply again reject anything and everything that was put in front of you. Throwing at it all again only more rejection and false discreditation, and that like your own feces angrily tossed at a wall.

  • Nikka80

    No Vax versus Unvax studies?

    Here’s a study of 13,453 German adolescent subjects. It was performed by actual scientific investigators (not chiropractors) at the prestigious Koch Institute in Berlin.

    Schmitz R, Poethko-Müller C, Reiter S, Schlaud M:
    Vaccination status and health in children and adolescents—findings of the German
    health interview and examination survey for children and adolescents (KiGGS). Dtsch Arztebl Int 2011; 108(7): 99–104. DOI: 10.3238/arztebl.2011.0099

    http://www.aerzteblatt.de/pdf.asp?id=80869

    Conclusion:
    “The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.”

    >The evaluation showed that vaccinated children and unvaccinated children differed substantially only in terms of the lifetime prevalence of vaccine preventable diseases; as is to be expected the risk of such diseases is notably lower in vaccinated subjects.

    > In this, the largest study in children and adolescents so far in Germany, none of the often anticipated health differences—such as allergies and the number
    of infections—were observed in vaccinated and unvaccinated subjects aged 1–17 years.

  • Obviously you did not even bother to read what is in front of you. The point was that VAERS is majorly under reported to and that the actual numbers of all types of reports that could and should and should be reported, are likely to be actually 10 times than that high. That is obviously a serious vaccine risk issue; and much more serious than has been realized and admitted to. And yes, I know exactly what VAERS reports are. Some reports make no defined connection, but many of them clearly do. The CDC has been as well derelict in their duties to actually look for and find serious risk issues with not only Gardasil, but all vaccines. The never find anything concerning, and no matter what. If they ever actually did acknowledge it all, they would be screwed. How much more obvious would that need to be for you? And in your mind, no major cover-up and corruption exists.

  • JGC

    what lie have I told? the lizditz site addresses most if not all of the papers on the Scribd list, indicating how they fail to provide the support you claim they do.
    What personal attack have I made? Who have I stereotyped?
    I’m calling offering the lists a Gish gallop because I believe sincerely that is what they represent: a large number of citations that don’t support the claim made but because of number are difficult to individually address showing where they fail.
    I have focused on the evidence for and against vaccines as a package, but the lists you’ve provided are only a very small part of a much larger package. I’ve ‘done my job’ as you suggest and considered all the evidence for and against vaccine safety and efficacy, while you’re considering only evidence against vaccine safety (and in my opinion misinterpreting its import when you do–I can think of no other reason why you’d consider Gherardi’s finding that aluminum is more toxic at lower doses than at higher ones as support for your claims).

  • JGC

    Once again: I only post under a single account on Disqus: JGC. I’m neither Hans nor Fellgel nor anyone else. I’m certainly not Dr. Gorski, and I’m not employed by him or anyone else to post on any topic in any forum.
    You might note, in fact, that I rarely upvote other posts myself. If those other accounts were mine, don’t you think their posts would all have been upvoted by this account?

  • JGC

    In what previous post did I claim to be an expert on vaccines?

    I routinely offer evidence for my positions.

    I will reject what is put in front of me should there be cause for rejection, yes. By what rational argument would that be a problem?

    Addendum: I’ve just searched through my posts for the past six days, looking for the word ‘expert’. In none of them do I claim to be an expert on vaccines. I suggest you are thinking of some other poster.

  • It all depends on who does and interprets the study. Many studies have been done and that have found the opposite findings of and in regard to the KiGGs study.

    Studies comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated populations
    http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/science/studies-comparing-vaccinated-to-unvaccinated-populations/

    If the so called science is so settled, then what are they so scared of in doing this study right here?

    Twice now, Florida congressman William Posey has introduced legislation to do a vaccinated verses un-vaccinated health outcomes study, but all that happens is only more of the sweeping it all under the rug.

    H.R. 1636: Vaccine Safety Study Act
    Introduced: Mar 25, 2015
    Status: Referred to Committee on Mar 25, 2015
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr1636
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr1636/summary

    Research Support for H.R. 1757
    The Vaccine Safety Study Act
    https://www.safeminds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/HR1757-leavebehind.pdf

    Congressman Posey Lone Voice in Congress Calling for Vaccine Studies Comparing Vaccinated with Unvaccinated Children

    On July 28, 2017, Florida Congressman Bill Posey introduced bill H.R.3615 to the U.S. Congress: To direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct or support a comprehensive study comparing total health outcomes, including risk of autism, in vaccinated populations in the United States with such outcomes in unvaccinated populations in the United States, and for other purposes. So far, the bill has no co-sponsors. This is not surprising. Congressman Bill Posey seems to be just about the only politician in Washington D.C. willing to stand up to the Vaccine Extremists in the U.S., those who proudly proclaim that the “science is settled” regarding vaccines, and that everyone in the U.S. should follow the government recommended vaccine schedules, by force if necessary.

    Read More…
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2017/congressman-posey-lone-voice-in-congress-calling-for-vaccine-studies-comparing-vaccinated-with-unvaccinated-children/

    114TH CONGRESS
    1ST SESSION H. R. 1636
    To direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct or support a comprehensive study comparing total health outcomes, including risk of autism, in vaccinated populations in the United States with such outcomes in unvaccinated populations in the United States, and for other purposes.
    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-114hr1636ih/pdf/BILLS-114hr1636ih.pdf

    H.R.3615 – Vaccine Safety Study Act
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/3615/cosponsors

    Even our own government is clearly lying to us and in working against William Posey, and that with the false and continued assurance of vaccine safety. They clearly do not have the study science to show that vaccines are safe; yet they falsely state that they do.

    H.R. 1757 (113th): Vaccine Safety Study Act
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1757/summary

    Vaccine Injury Compensation Data

    Since 1988, over 18,426 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 29-year time period, 16,555 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,581 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,974 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.7 billion.

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

    As well the federal court precedent has already been set, and you can not sue big pharma directly for a vaccine product that they knew was highly reactive and seriously defective.

    Bruesewitz v. Wyeth: What the Supreme Court Decision Means for Vaccines
    http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/24/bruesewitz-v-wyeth-what-the-supreme-court-decision-means-for-vaccines/

    Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, Inc.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cert/09-152

    How can vaccine safety be assured when there are no limits to how reactive and damaging a vaccine is and can be, and in that nothing can be done about it? Nothing can be done to get that vaccine pulled from the shelves, and there exists absolutely no accountability for anyone involved. They just simply deny it all. Gardasil, and Gardasil 9 are current and prime examples of that, and just as much as the previous damaging and highly reactive DTP vaccine was.

  • JGC

    Because the only way to arrive at the truth is to silence all dissenting voices and ignore all inconvenient facts? That’s how you think it works?

  • If you were actually being honest, forthright, and rational here, you would and could have a rightful claim to that: but the opposite of that is actually true, and the opposite of that is actually happening here. All you are going to continue to do here is waste my time, and in creating only more of your deliberately intended disruption and distraction. That is all you can ever do.

    Here is a copy of your said post.

    JGC Lowell Hubbs • 3 hours ago
    “You won’t find that on the CDC, AAP, and the Paul Offit ”

    What do you suggest I consider other than the scientific evidence–anecdotal accounts? You-tube rants? reading entrails?

    “Do you know at all what independent and unbiased research is? How much of that have you ever done, and/or refused to accept?”
    I’ve been doing unbiased research for four decades, Lowell. In science you go where the data leads, whether you like the direction or not.
    1
    •Reply•Share ›

  • A better question is what truth have you told? And all you continue to do here is present with only more of your twisted rambling, and your repeatedly in denial, irrational shill madness. You are actually here unable to defend and/or argue against any existing studies, whatsoever. All you have is a half cooked load of again twisted nonsense.

  • I have silenced no one with clearly and accurately put forth information, and with a diligent, honest, and unbiased argument. Your said claim is based on nothing but your own twisted level of hypocrisy. You are actually attempting to do the silencing and in as well in the complete rejection of applicable study information. In fact that in your rejection of anything but provax information, period. Obviously as well you have not been silenced here, and as you are still posting replies.

  • JGC

    If you would choose what you personally believe to be one of the single most credible and compelling studies supporting your claims we could discuss it and find out whether I can or cannot argue against it.
    Shall we give that a try?

  • JGC

    Where in that post do I claim to be an expert on vaccines? I don’t see anything like that in the text.

  • JGC

    But you will be the arbiter of what represents accurate information and who has been arguing diligently, honestly and without bias, Forgive me if I’m inclined to believe that your own bias will cause you to be more likely to silence those who disagree with your position regarding vaccine safety than those who embrace it.
    I’m not attempting to silence anyone–who have I demanded have their posts scrubbed from the discussion, as have others?

  • Rick Orlandini

    The irony of this statement is palpable.

  • Proponent

    Soooo.. nothing to do with vaccinations, or, refusing to sign a form.

    Ok, then.

    … …

    But.. since you seem fixated on Barbara Starfield.. have a look/read of this other published study of hers..

    Clinical Pediatrics | “The Association of Patient-Held Records and Completion of Immunizations”

    And I quote;

    “An experimental assessment of the usefulness of patient-held
    immunization records as a means of improving compliance and meeting national goals for levels of immunization is suggested.”

    Not really picking up on any anti-vaccine vibe, at the risk of stating the obvious.

  • Proponent

    Lowell Hubbs: “I have silenced no one with clearly and accurately put forth information, and with a diligent, honest, and unbiased argument.”

    Accurate?

    Hmmm.. I don’t think so, as you posted the following study.. twice.. thinking it was supportive of your erroneous claims.

    And.. of course, it wasn’t.

    You simply don’t understand 99.99% of what you post, Howell Lubbs.

    Next?

  • Proponent

    You need to direct your question to @jeffryjohn

  • Kim Jensen

    TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY AGREE!

  • Proponent

    Michael Corbo: “Vaccines can and do cause autism.”

    Incorrect, sorry.

    … …

    But, I do agree with you on the note that if ‘you’ (speaking generally here) are not happy with your doctor/pediatrician.. that you are free to find another.

    And hopefully, one that does not accept cash only payments for service.

    Or, has a veritable store of other stuff you can buy, like.. supplements, books, DVDs.. and and.. .

  • Proponent

    Seriously.. what is with the ALL CAPS and !!!!!!!!!!!s?

    You guys got patents on this stuff?

  • Proponent

    And you have admitted to being paid by those protectors of your clan, Howell Lubbs.. don’t lie, now.

  • Kim Jensen

    Why don’t you not worry about whether or not I use caps! I WAS EXCITED about the comment. Get over it!

  • Proponent

    Not worried.. just curious, as this posting peccadillo seems to be restricted to your group’s posting proclivities.

  • Kim Jensen

    “My group”? Look, I just joined this discussion last night. And as for YOU, you’re full of crap! I read some of your comments on your page. You’re the antagonistic one! You’re so pro vaccine that it makes me want to vomit! F*** your damn disgusting vaccines! And how are you gonna send me some damn article from Germany when I can’t even read where the fake info came from? It’s in German! I am an American! I speak only English! I believe that the article you posted is a bogus one. The vaccinated vs. UNVACCINATED claims on there are not even made by doctors! Idk why you’re pushing this agenda? I’m not an idiot who’s asleep! You know damn well that these vaccines don’t work! They make children sick, cause cancer and even cause death! And don’t you DARE ask me to prove where I got that info from. You already know where it comes from! Stop pushing you’re false agenda! The good people on here are trying to educate themselves and others on the dangers of vaccines. Stop it!

  • Kim Jensen

    Thank you for this info my friend. I will read about it.

  • Kim Jensen

    Ok
    I will apologize for adding the comment about the paper from Germany. That rant was not meant for you. I’m sorry about that.

  • kfunk937
  • Proponent

    Ok, then.. zero to eleventy!!!!!!!111!! in under three seconds.

    Still, for your polite post/comment above and prior.. I thought it warranted an upvote, so, that’s what I did. Upvoted it.

  • Proponent

    Lowell Hubbs: “Vaccine Ingredients and Manufacturer Information”

    Oh, dear.. Howell?

    Incorrect and inaccurate.. a -gain..

    The MDCK Cell Line canine, or, MDCK (Madin–Darby canine kidney) cells listed on that site that you linked to?

    They are used for research purposes only.

    From MDCK’s “Cell Line Description”:

    “From kidney of normal female adult Cocker Spaniel in 1958 by SH Madin and NB Darby (Madin Darby Canine Kidney). Supports growth of wide range of animal viruses: VSV (Indiana strain), infectious Canine Hepatitis, Vaccinia, Coxsackie B5, Adeno and reo viruses, SVEV.”

    … …

    Please keep posting this erroneous copypasta.. as it underscores the depth of your.. ahem.. research skills and that of your attention to details.

    Very.. sloppy stuff, Howell Lubbs. Very.. sloppy.

  • Proponent

    Lowell Hubbs: “Like I said, the next article will not be replied to, and nor as to anyone that replies on it, and no matter what. I am actually going to enjoy it and my time off, and as well because the editor refuses to do a proper job of moderating this site, and as well in banning those shills that should obviously be banned. Enough is enough, and as to that. This article site can just continue to stew in its own editor refusing to regulate it, and in its persistent vaccine shills attempting to be controlling of it all, mess.”

  • kfunk937

    Geez, sometimes the best I can muster is “Geez, you’re dim”, which stops my muzzle as if little birdies had raided my shredder for nest-leavings. That’s when I say nothing (despite education on the matter…) Thank you for your fortitude.

  • JGC

    I would reject pro-vax information as well, if it suffered from the same flaws as the anti-vax information I’ve been offered (if, for example, it confused correlation and causation, or it offered a conclusion supported only by anecdote or founded in a post hoc ergo proctor hoc logical fallacy).

    It’s science: you go where the evidence leads, whether you like the direction you’re going or not.

  • Ben

    You should give your paper shreddings to Mike Stevens. He is raising mineralcorticoid receptor knock-out mice, a nude variety that he then de-claws and donates to The Richard Gere Society.

  • Cypher

    How about you producing evidence that these “oh so scary” diseases like Measles are actually deadly in developed countries? Please don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by lumping in 3rd world disease stats.

    While you’re at it, produce evidence that the UNvaccinated have a larger mortality rate than the vaccinated. Until you can provide peer reviewed evidence of one or both you will have 0 credibility here, chief.

  • Cypher

    You should pity them. They know they are fighting a losing battle because more people are waking. I place them in the same bucket as pedophiles. They knowingly harm children with no empathy. They are the worst forms of putrid filth on the planet. I toy with them because they always demand “proof” while producing none of their own. They will attempt to discredit all factual evidence with only their words.

    Pathetic.

  • Cypher

    Good post. Here’s my sock list:

    Mike Stevens/Michael Simpson
    Dorit Reiss
    Reality022
    KellyMBray
    SoniaHernie
    FSMPastapharian
    JoeFarmer
    Dumb Dumb

    You are correct in that the pattern is always the same. It generally takes a day for the Disqus digest to go out. However, the upvotes are nearly immediate. Its quite amusing that they haven’t improved their tactics at all.

  • Same here.

  • JGC

    In the US in the decade before measles vaccination was introduced, on average the disease caused between 3 to 4 million infections annually, requiring 48,000 hospitalizations, causing. 4000 cases of measles encephalopathy and 400 to 500 deaths.

    https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

  • Cypher

    Thank you for you link to the Centers for Disease Creation. Sorry to disappoint you but disease eradication was due to cleaner water and plumbing, not chemical injections. Furthermore, Measles didn’t magically go away because of your medieval chemical injections. It still exists and will continue to exist regardless of whatever chemicals you introduce….especially if you mandate those chemicals.

  • JGC

    “Thank you for you link to the Center for Disease Creation Control”

    Fixed an apparent autocorrect typo for you. No need to thank me.

    “Sorry to disappoint you but disease eradication was due to cleaner water and plumbing, not chemical injections.”

    Citations needed. Please also explain the following:

    How cleaner water and plumbing could act to reduce the incidence of non-water borne illnesses like measles and chicken pox.

    Which the incidence of infectious diseases like smallpox and polio in developing countries who have poor sanitation and water but exhibit high levels of vaccine uptake has decreased (India, for example, where especially in rural areas people are seen to routinely defecate in public spaces.)

    Also explain why if it was improvement in sanitation and hygiene that successfully began successfully began reducing the incidence of disease, why did those improvements reduce incidence of polio beginning in 1955 (coincidentally when the first polio vaccines were introduced), didn’t start reducing the incidence of measles until 1963 (coincidentally when the first measles vaccines were introduced), didn’t eradicate small pox until 1980 after the WHO had conducted an aggressive program of isolation and vaccination, and took until 1995, when chicken pox vaccination was added to the CDC’s recommended childhood vaccination schedule, to start start reducing the incidence of chicken pox in the US?

    “It still exists and will continue to exist regardless of whatever chemicals you introduce….”

    Not true: measles has no host other than humans. An aggressive program of isolation and vaccination could eradicate the disease entirely in the same way such a program successfully eradicated small pox.

  • Cypher

    Well, all you have to do was ask and you shall receive. :-))

    “In conclusion, the largest historical decrease in morbidity and mortality caused by infectious disease was experienced not with the modern antibiotic and vaccine era, but after the introduction of clean water and effective sewer systems.”

    Source:
    Journal of pediatrics, December 1999, vol. 135, p663

    http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(99)70080-6/fulltext

    If you have a problem with this fact take it up with JPEDS, or show me the retraction.

  • JGC

    Cypher, before we continue may I ask if you have actually read Zinc, diarrhea, and pneumonia by Hambridge and Kreb?

  • Cypher

    Please continue. It was a conclusion.

  • JGC

    Can you point out where in the article the authors offer evidence that supports their claim that “the largest historical decrease in morbidity and mortality caused by infectious disease was experienced not with the modern antibiotic and vaccine era, but after the introduction of clean water and effective sewer systems”, or indicate any publication they’ve cited in their article’s bibliography that even addresses the impact of the introduction of clean water and effective sewer systems on infectious diseases?

    Because I looked, and couldn’t find anything.

  • Cypher

    I’m not sure I get your logic. You claim that your chemical injections eradicated disease around the turn on of the century, which actually coincided with the introduction of cleaner water, sanitization and plumbing. You also disregard proof from JPEDS claiming that the conclusion was based on diarrhea and pneumonia. The citation speaks for itself and is very clear. There were no pneumonia vaccines at the turn of the century so the two are not related. There exists no vaccine for diarrhea so strike that relation as well. Please clarify your claims because I’m confused as to the point you’re struggling to make.

  • JGC

    We’re not addressing about chemical injections:, we’re discussing prophylactic vaccination.

    I’ve made no claim that vaccines eradicated disease around the turn of the century–if you’ll read my post attentively you’ll nore I reference the polo vaccine introduced in 1955, measles introduced in 1963, smallpox eradication achieved in 1980 and chicken pox vaccine in 1995.

    Your claim, on the other hand, has been that disease eradication was due solely to cleaner water and plumbing and not to vaccination.

    the JPEDS article not only did not offer proof, it did not even offer supporting evidence. The authors made a claim in passing without support either in the body of the paper or in the articles cited in their bibliography.

    “There were no pneumonia vaccines at the turn of the century so the two are not related”

    We’re not speaking of the turn of the century: we’re peaking of the contribution of routine childhood vaccinations to deceased incidence of infectious disease and the successful eradication of some infectious diseases like small pox and rinderpest.

    “There were no pneumonia vaccines at the turn of the century so the two are not related. There exists no vaccine for diarrhea so strike that relation as well.”

    Pneumonia and diarrhea represent symptoms caused by multiple pathogens rather than discrete diseases in themselves. There are in fact 2 types of vaccines approved to protect against pneumonia in the US (pneumococcal conjugate vaccines

    and pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccines) all of which are multivalent. There is also a vaccine against rotavirus, the most common cause of diarrhoeal disease in infants and young children.

    “Please clarify your claims because I’m confused as to the point you’re struggling to make.”

    Quite simply, that while cleaner water and effective sewer systems indeed contributed greatly to a decline in the mortality of some diseases, these improvements alone were not sufficient to eradicate any disease, and did nothing to contribute to the decline in mortality and incidence of diseases that exhibit other routes of infection (such as all airborne diseases like measles).

  • Cypher

    Well, its all very simple. The conclusion states that infectious diseases were for the most part (not partially) eradicated because of cleaner living. End of story. You are making this way too complicated. Diarrhea is not an infectious disease, unless we’re talking about stomach-flu as the cause but it doesn’t apply here. Any 5 year old could understand this. Do you have any remaining arguments? Any luck with that peer reviewed article that proves that the UNvaccinated have a larger mortality rate than the vaccinated? I’m not “moving the goal post” (as you people love to say). I’ve shown you proof and you simply deny it as usual. Typical modus operandi.

    You were the one that supplied the CDC link from the beginning of the 1900s (aka turn of the century).

  • JGC

    The authors state that in the conclusion, agreed. They do not however offer any evidence from which such a conclusion may be drawn within their paper, none of the articles they cite offer evidence from which this conclusion may be drawn.

    “Any luck with that peer reviewed article that proves that the UNvaccinated have a larger mortality rate than the vaccinated?”

    Mortality (incidence of death due to infection) is the wrong metric: vaccine efficacy is measured with respect to the morbidity (incidence of infection).

    See the following for evidence that the vaccines reduce the risk of infection:

    PMID: 28368471; PMID: 23658512; PMID: 20392713; PMID: 19143968

  • Cypher

    Its pointless to argue with me. Simply contact JPEDs and demand a retraction. Its backed up by tons of evidence Including:
    “Clean water appears to be responsible for 74% (46/62) of the infant mortality reduction and 62% (50/81) of the child mortality reduction. Similarly, clean water led to the near-eradication of typhoid fever…diphtheria…..”

    https://scholar.harvard.edu/cutler/files/cutler_miller_cities.pdf

    “Mortality (incidence of death due to infection) is the wrong metric: vaccine efficacy is measured with respect to the morbidity (incidence of infection).”

    You are misunderstanding my question. Show me evidence that getting vaccines increase your longevity or increase the overall health compared to the UNvaccinated.

  • JGC

    The section you quoted refers to reducing the incidence of typhoid fever (a water borne infectious disease) over a particular period in time (between 1900 to 1936. I agree that cleaner water will impact the incidence of infectious diseases that are waterborne, although insufficiently to eradicate them (the authors speak of typhoid fever’s’ near-eradication), but does nothing to reduce the incidence of airborne, etc. disease like measles.

    I think http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089/en/addresses the benefits of vaccination regarding overall health and longevity quite well

  • AutismDadd

    JGC has never had credibility anywhere. Crudability yes.

  • Cypher

    “This page cannot be found”.

    Sorry. Try again.

  • AutismDadd

    ploponent is a troll I blocked

  • AutismDadd

    Right on!

  • AutismDadd

    Can I quote you? There are some putrid filth I’d like to tell that to.

  • AutismDadd

    What about FalseAngel JGC and Acleron? They are so pro they have to be shills.

  • AutismDadd

    Didn’t you use the moniker Twinkle Toes for a while?

  • AutismDadd

    You made the list, at least I recommended you.

  • AutismDadd

    Who cares what you think?

  • AutismDadd

    Splitting hairs

  • AutismDadd

    Is it your intention to be a huge buttcrack?

  • AutismDadd

    We don’t have to prove anything to you buttcrack.

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. Did you get that extraterrestrial nonsense from Uranus?

  • AutismDadd

    What pure shill nonsense. We don’t need to hear your rubbish anymore. Got find someone else to annoy.

  • JGC

    You know, I understand that astronomers are lobbying to change the name of the planet Uranus, because teen-age boys tend to giggle when it’s used.

    Unfortunately, the leading candidate for a new name is “Urectum”.

  • JGC

    Not if you’re not interested in convincing others to embrace your claims, but I had a strong impression you were.

  • JGC

    You’re welcome not to read or respond to my posts anytime you choose, AD.

  • Kim Jensen

    There’s no convincing you! You think you’re right about everything! You are just pro vaccine period! It makes one wonder about your agenda? Those of us who know and have accepted the TRUTH will keep on fighting the good fight for our children, grandchildren and future generations. We all used believe in vaccines, just like you. And then we woke up! Keep on pushing your poison. We’re still going to be here. .. Pushing back!

  • JGC

    It’s ‘splitting hairs’ to point out that, despite Shawn’s claims to the contrary, the CDC never identified the cause of autism as brain damage?
    I see it more as pointing out a falsehood.

  • Cypher

    Bravo. Well said!

  • AutismDadd

    Low expectations are key when you think anyone cares what you say or think. Only the others shills care.

  • AutismDadd

    How about buttcrack?

  • JGC

    I can be convinced: all it would take would be a credible body of actual evidence sufficient to counter the existing body of evidence speaking to the safety and efficacy of routine childhood vaccination.

    I get that you believe what you have accepted is the all-caps truth, but no one seems willing or able to establish what they believe to be true actually is true.

    “And then we woke up!”

    What evidence was responsible for waking you? Something more than anecdotal accounts, I would hope, or mistaking correlation for causation or mistakenly believing that ‘after’ is synonymous with ‘because of’.
    I get that you sincerely believe that vaccines do more harm than good, but for the life of me I don’t understand why you would do so in the absence of evidence that is the case and in the face of evidence that is not the case.

  • AutismDadd

    Only a fool would expect CDC to do so.

  • AutismDadd

    Block him

  • JGC
  • JGC

    So you’re saying Shawn’s a fool?

  • Cypher

    You’re not here to be convinced. You’re here to spread your vaxtremist propaganda. How’s that working out for you so far?

  • JGC

    I’ve never posted to Disqus under a nym other than JGC.

  • Cypher

    Did you happen to read your source material?

    From line 1:

    “Vaccination has greatly reduced the burden of infectious diseases.
    Only clean water, also considered to be a basic human right, performs
    better….”

    Sorry friend, but you’re digging yourself in deeper.

  • Cypher

    I haven’t had the honor of crossing paths with those sock puppets yet but I’m sure I will.

  • JGC

    I’m here to consider evidence I might be unaware of that might require I revise my position, and to offer information that might make others consider revising their position. isn’t that how adult discussions operate?
    If, on the other hand, people are so emotionally wedded to a belief that there’s nothing that could be offered which might sway the from it, I’d suggest they might want to avoid public forums.

  • Cypher

    Sure! :-)

  • Cypher

    I guess it depends on your definition of “belief”. For me its a binary argument. Can chemical injections cause permanent damage/deaths? Yes. Can the same chemical injections actually spread the disease it was meant to protect against? Yes. Is there a cost/benefit analysis performed that makes chemical injections worth it? No.

    The true benefits of chemical injections are based on a belief system. For you its a religion and no amount of evidence is good enough, I get it.

  • JGC

    “Can chemical injections cause permanent damage/deaths?”
    First, why do you continually characterize vaccines as ‘chemical injections”? Vaccines are actually classified as biologics.

    Second, do you characterize all parenterals as ‘chemical injections, and oppose their use uniformly? Are you opposed to diabetics injecting insulin because such “chemical injection can cause permanent damage/deaths”?

    Or are you arbitrarily applying a different standard to vaccines than to all other medical interventions?

    “Can the same chemical injections actually spread the disease it was meant to protect against?”
    Citations please: can you demonstrate that any vaccine on the current CDC recommended childhood vaccination schedule that can actually spread the disease it is meant to protect against?

  • AutismDadd

    They are like all the rest, putrid filth

  • AutismDadd

    Are you daft?

  • AutismDadd

    Nope

  • AutismDadd

    It doesn’t say that does it?

  • JGC

    Yes: clean water performs well at reducing the incidence of water born infectious diseases: I’ve noted this from the start of our discussion. Your claim however was that cleaner water and effective sewerage was responsible for the reduction in morbidity and mortality for all infectious diseases, and that vaccination did not contribute to their ‘eradication’ (as you put it) at all.

    So yes, cleaner water does wonders for reducing the incidence of waterborne diseases like typhoid fever. It has actually been seen to exacerbate morbidity and mortality associated with polio outbreaks on the other hand, and will do nothing to impact the morbidity/mortality of airborne diseases like measles.

  • AutismDadd

    They both seem apropos for you.

  • Cypher

    “Citations, citations, citations…”

    You were wrong on the water issue as I already proved even with your own sources.

    What exactly is the point? Should I show you multitude of examples of where diseases are spread among vaccinated ppl? Should I show you 2 examples where cancer wards warn again visitors that have recently been vaccinated?

    You will simply disregard it once again. Therefore I suggest we approach this with simple logic.

    Paul Offit said that any child can take up to 10,000 vaccines at once and suffer 0 consequences.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4a-M0KwDQ

    Do you agree with that?

  • Cypher

    So you refute JPEDs? Did you contact them for a retraction?

  • Bonnie Jacobus

    I couldn’t scroll past the debate to read parent’s responses when not signing the paper. What are they? My older children had half the number of vaccines they give today. I did learn that more recently they have experimented with the combo vaccines by adding different single vaccines. Although there is a group of children with asthma and other issues that the study concluded, it’s not called experimentation but “observation”.

  • Kim Jensen

    Chemical injections = thimerosal, polysorbate 80, antifreeze etc.. Those ARE chemicals. Chemicals that are deadly to the human body.

  • Kim Jensen

    Thank you!

  • Kim Jensen

    Annnddddd… still no reply from him…

  • Kim Jensen

    How much more evidence do you need? Wtf! ? I am totally convinced that you will never change your stance it. Are you a doctor?

  • Cypher

    And there won’t be anything valid other than dismissals of evidence. I’m not sure what this handful of muppets is trying to prove.

  • Kim Jensen

    Wtf are you talking about? Of course we are emotionally wedded to this issue! ! Innocent children’s lives are at stake here! These vaccines are causing autism, neurological damage and death! And so much more! What don’t you fu***** understand about that? ??

  • Mike Stevens

    You stated the vaccines could spread the diseases.
    That’s quite untrue, and quite different from a person catching a disease he was previously vaccinated against.
    But I guess you are too stupid to tell the difference.

  • Cypher

    Oh, hello again Mr. Simpson. Are you sure you want to go to-to-toe with me again? Do you speak for JGC? Once I enter into a debate it becomes a 1:1 sport with me. That’s my rules. Take it or leave. Feel free to pass on any talking points you wish to your other sock if you wish.

  • AutismDadd

    JGC may suffer from a sociopathic condition

  • AutismDadd

    Yes he’s Dr Death vaccine expert.

  • Mike Stevens

    Are you really that obtuse?

  • AutismDadd

    It will burst his bubble and his Blind Faith Syndrome will heal

  • Mike Stevens

    You’ve gotta be a Poe, or someone paid by pharma to make antivaxers look dumber than they already are.

  • Cypher

    And schizophrenia. Notice how his alter ego Mike Stevens/Simpson now takes over. Mike Stevens is blocked now for me because its too comical.

  • AutismDadd

    Apples VS oranges. Lets stay on topic, vaccine injury and death including NVICP ruling a vaccine or vaccines caused the death of a baby. And imply its SIDS.

  • AutismDadd

    There’s no honor, just horror

  • AutismDadd

    I blocked Pro. I think JGC and Pro are one person.

  • AutismDadd

    Mike is running on empty. His bag of compost is used up

  • Mike Stevens

    So why are you feeding the “trolls”?

    I think everyone can see who are the ones getting desperate…

  • Cypher

    And Mike Stevens, since his alter ego JGC has disappeared. I blocked Mikey because I stopped watching puppet shows a long time ago.

  • Mike Stevens

    He thinks he’s right because he is right.

  • AutismDadd

    Proponent and JGC may be one in the same. Or they operate with the same manual.

  • AutismDadd

    Tell us about serum sickness

  • AutismDadd

    Lame

  • AutismDadd

    Yes you and your ILK

  • AutismDadd

    liar

  • AutismDadd

    All 3 on the same forum at the same time too.

  • Mike Stevens

    Lowell just imagined he saw it.
    Wernicke’s encephalopathy is characterised by delusions and confabulation.

  • FallsAngel

    ” Once I enter into a debate it becomes a 1:1 sport with me.”

    Not the rules of the forum, however.

  • Mike Stevens

    By getting the disease, and transmitting it to a vaccinated (but vulnerable) child*, of course.
    *eg a child who has not completed the primary series, a child in whom the vaccine did not work, or an older child or adult in whom the vaccine has worn off (e.g. Pertussis).

  • Kim Jensen

    And I think that you’re stupid because you are stupid! What, do speak for him now? Smh

  • Mike Stevens

    “Here on this forum you see a bunch of extremely concerned, afraid parents.”

    Nope, I see a core of rabid antivaxers, none of whom will ever be likely to convert to rational thinking about vaccines by the scientific evidence.

  • Kim Jensen

    So wait, so NOW you people are saying a vaccine may not “work ” or may “wear off”??? You’re all full of bullshit! No one will ever take you seriously or be “swayed” into believing that vaccines are necessary. Stop trying to push your agenda now. You just discredited every single one of you!

  • Mike Stevens

    What’s pretty sad is that you don’t even recognise scientific evidence and facts when they are shown to you.
    Trump would be either proud of you, or jealous.

  • Mike Stevens

    …Flower remedies for rabies, and homeopathic moonlight for meningitis.
    It’s time to stop the madness of the anti-science brigade.

  • Kim Jensen

    Rational thinking? You mean global sheep followers? That is what your agenda is. Us “rabid anti vaxxers “will never stop trying to get rid if these injected poisons! Never! Children are our most valuable concern ! May you be injected with 1,000 of the vaccines that you push on innocent lives! Let’s see how you like it! Oh, and scientific evidence my ass! The proof is in these poor innocent babies and children who are forever changed and / or die! Take your scientific evidence and shove it! The way actual human beings react to these vaccines TRUMPS your scientific proof!

  • Mike Stevens

    Wakefield arranged to do lumbar punctures on children just because they were suspected of being on the autistic spectrum.
    He even directly countermanded the clinician’s orders about this.

  • Mike Stevens

    And yet Wakefraud is a hero for subjecting kids to totally unnecessary lumbar punctures, never mind several other pointless invasive tests…
    Logic was never high on a list of antivax attributes, was it?

  • Kim Jensen

    Awwww. What’s wrong? Can’t handle it because you know we’re right? You’re the dumbass on here, not me. And furthermore, you can go f*** yourself!

  • Mike Stevens

    “Lowell posts a lot of valuable information.”

    In the land of the blind, I suppose the one-eyed man is king.

  • Mike Stevens

    Any idea how many more deaths would occur without medical interventions?

  • Mike Stevens

    I doubt the facts will bother these antivaccine propaganda pushers…

  • Mike Stevens

    QED.

  • Mike Stevens

    Why the asterisks? Scared to say what you mean?

  • Kim Jensen

    F. O.

  • Kim Jensen

    You go around calling everyone else stupid and dumb? ?? Talking down to people? If you can’t figure out what I was saying, then you’re the dumb one.

  • Jonathan is bored.

    No they’re not. What you are mistaking is iatrogenic causes which since a JAMA article in 2000 (based and slightly extrapolating from an IOM report) which actually includes ALL modalities of medical care put together.

    It’s worth mentioning that as medicine is capable of treating more and more illnesses. Iatrogenic causes will rise and overall deaths will decrease. If doctors were able to treat every illness – iatrogenic causes would be the first (and only) cause of death but smaller than all previous CODs.

  • Mike Stevens

    I know what you’re saying, of course, just wondered why you were so scared to “say it out loud”.

  • Mike Stevens

    No socks, and not “Mr Simpson”…
    although you could give Homer a run for his money.

  • Kim Jensen

    I’m not “scared” . You can believe that!

  • Proponent

    Cypher: “It’s pointless to argue with me.”

    Agreed.

  • Ben

    A lumbar puncture always provides useful information. Exomorphins and serotonin metabolites can be measured this way. These have obviously been found correlated with mental states.

  • Ben

    Nope, I see a core of rabid antivaxers…

    Don’t hold back Mike.

    I suppose in the eyes of a paid propagandist, parents worried about aluminum toxicity are “rabid antivaxers”.

    Did you know that vaccinations have killed and paralyzed people?

  • Ben

    You’re insane. The vaccine schedule has exploded due to capitalism. The CDC want more profits and so does Merck.

    Can you rationally explain the need for a hepatitis B vaccine (aluminum) given to newborns?

  • JGC

    Except the court did not rule that a vaccine or vaccines had caused the death of a baby. It ruled that the plaintiffs had had met the legal requiremts to be entitled to compensation, and the respondent had failed to offer a preponderance of evidence demonstrating that the vaccine could not have caused or contributed to the child’s death. The court made it clear that this finding should not be taken as evidence that vaccination is associated with increased risk of SIDS.

    From the ruling :

    “In this case, I have concluded that petitioners have presented sufficient evidence and testimony to entitle them to compensation in the Vaccine Program. I have not concluded that vaccines present a substantial risk of SIDS. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary. The vast majority of vaccine recipients do not succumb to SIDS.”

  • JGC

    “These vaccines are causing autism, neurological damage and death”

    What evidence demonstrates that a causal association between routine childhood vaccination and autism spectrum disorders exists, Kim?

  • JGC

    More evidence? I’ve yet to be offered any–only anecdotal accounts, personal testimonials that this is the case, etc.

    No, I’m not a physician: I’m a research biologist.

  • JGC

    “Chemicals that are deadly to the human body.”

    At exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination? Citations needed.

  • JGC

    What you should do is support your claim that cleaner water and effective sewers is sufficient to eradicate all infectious diseases, making vaccines unnecessary.

    And no, Paul Offit did not say a child could receive 10,000 innocculations at once without consequence: he pointed out that the immune system has the capacity to respond to 10,000 antigens or more without being overwhelmed.

  • Cypher

    Already supported by JPEDS. Take it up with them as I said now 5x.

    BTW, I wasn’t implying that it was ONLY cleaner water that decreased the rate of infection and morbidity. Sorry for the confusion there. It was also nutrition. Are you able to show me that getting injected with your chemicals decrease the chances of dying from said disease? Morbidity. That is the point, is it not? Simply contracting a disease and building a subsequent immunity from it is part of being human, and no amount of injected chemicals will take the place of that basic part of nature. As I already pointed out Measles did not disappear. Its a cyclical disease and always will be just like all the other benign common childhood diseases such as mumps, whooping cough, and chicken pox. Your chemical injections simply perpetuate the disease and in some cases create a more virulent strain. Great business model for big pharma: Blame the increased outbreaks on the unvaccinated.

    As for Offit, show me evidence that supports his claims.

  • Ben

    Hey Mike. You claim to have gotten all of your vaccinations, but I overheard you saying something about “getting smallcox from your trip to Thailand.”

    Can you elaborate Mike?

  • Kim Jensen

    You know the answer to that question. Better yet, why don’t you ask AutismDadd. He could answer that question better than I could.

  • Proponent

    Kim Jensen: “Better yet, why don’t you ask AutismDadd. He could answer that question better than I could.”

    Yuuuge red flag where your judgement is concerned, Kim Jensen.

  • Proponent

    Cypher: “As I already pointed out Measles did not disappear. Its a cyclical disease and always will be just like all the other benign common childhood diseases such as mumps, whooping cough, and chicken pox.”

    Cypher: “How about you producing evidence that these “oh so scary” diseases like Measles are actually deadly in developed countries? Please don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by lumping in 3rd world disease stats.”

    … …

    Benign? Really?

    Don’t..think.. so.

    ^ And note… there goes your nonsense about measles not being “deadly in developed countries” as well. Adding in.. there’s your “evidence that the UNvaccinated have a larger mortality rate than the vaccinated”, too.

    Next?

  • JGC

    He’s been unable to in the past.

  • JGC

    So the water got cleaner and nutrition got better around 1956 reducing the incidence of polio, but wasn’t clean enough nor nutrition good enough to reduce the incidence of measles until after 1963. Then both suddenly improved so much than smallpox was eradicated in 1980, but the water wasn’t clean enough or our nutrition good enough to make a dent in chicken pox until 1995? The vaccines released in those years had nothing to do with it?

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    JGorskiC was put on a drone by his owner Offit and collected all his measles statistics flying over the jungles.
    Or, being internet addict , may be he got the fake african measles numbers by playing the video game “Vaccinator Billy Gator kill the children operator”

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Nobody thanks you, tick JGorskiC. Nobody is going to start using your killer vaccines just because you pasted some fake statistics trying to scare people. You see , the only accounts upvoting you are your own sciencebasedmedisine/scienceblog/skepticalraptor accounts always the same proponent, reality, shay simmons, kfunk, fallgel, Mike Stevens and you have about 20 other paid psychotic personalities/accounts. Never a single upvote from a real person on your posts. So all your fear mongering is in vain. Except for a nice paycheck from pharma, that compensates for you being a failed doctor with horrible patient reviews.

  • Ron Roy

    ”As for Offit, show me evidence that supports his claims” Are you kidding me? OMG you just proved you’re a shill extraordinaire..

  • Mike Stevens

    Who ever claimed vaccination was 100% successful all the time?
    I see your collection of pet strawmen is coming along nicely. Just stay away from naked flames, will you.

  • JGC

    Once again: I’m not Dr. Gorski, and the irony of someone who keeps asserting (without evidence) that vaccines injure or kill more people than are injured or killed by the infectious diseases they protect against is more than a little amusing.

    ” Never a single upvote from a real person on your posts.”
    What do you mean by ‘a real person’? Provide a few examples. It sounds almost as if you’re saying “No one who agrees with me that vaccines do more harm than good ever upvotes your posts”.
    I’m not a failed doctor–in fact, a never pursued a medical degree. and once again: I’m not paid by anyone to post on any subject in any forum.

  • Cypher

    The “joke” of Polio is a speparate issue that we can addresss later. Stay on track.That JPEDs article also makes a good point about nutrition citing Zinc as a disease fighter over medieval chemicals. There’s not much logic in you attempting to refute clear evidence from a reputable source that often is pro-vax itself. Its up to you if you want to continue down this path at your own risk.

    BTW, you’re wrong (once again) in your statement that Offit never made the claim about 10,000 vaccines at once. Its clearly written here in a paper that he co-authored:

    “Each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10000 vaccines at any one time (obtained by dividing 107 B cells per mL by 103 epitopes per vaccine)….”

    Addressing Parents’ Concerns: Do Multiple Vaccines Overwhelm or Weaken the Infant’s Immune System?
    Paul A. Offit, Jessica Quarles, Michael A. Gerber, Charles J. Hackett, Edgar K. Marcuse, Tobias R. Kollman, Bruce G. Gellin, Sarah
    Landry

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124

    Wow. That’s strike 2.

    So I ask again. Do you agree with this or not? Why or why not?

  • JGC

    AD, one more time: only post to Disqus using one account, uisng the nym JGC

  • JGC

    I’ve disappeared?

  • Mike Stevens

    “Paul Offit said that any child can take up to 10,000 vaccines at once and suffer 0 consequences.”

    Now your own citation of his exact words contradicts this claim, are you going to retract it?
    I’m talking about the “suffer no consequences” part, just to clarify.

    As JGC clarified, Offit was talking about the theoretical capacity of the immune system to be able to generate an adequate immune response to multiple antigens in vaccines; This was in the context of the question as to whether multiple vaccines could somehow overwhelm the immune system. Offit wasn’t discussing whether a challenge that great might also have adverse consequences.
    You know that very well, so you are being deliberately disingenuous and deceitful.

    I will point out that Offit was basing the “vaccine” number based on 100 antigens per possible vaccine.
    (That means that a child would be capable of adequately responding to 1,000,000 antigens).

    Summary:
    Note to JGC: Offit did say “10,000 vaccines”
    Note to Cypher: Offit did not say “with no consequences”

  • JGC

    Serum sickness is an immune reaction similar to an allergic reaction, where the immune system responds to proteins used to treat immune conditions. It can also arise as a reaction to antisera–blood products that contain antibodies which are given to treat infections or toxins (e.g., anti-sera given to people bitten by venomous snakes).

  • Mike Stevens

    Did you mean that post Roy?
    We know Cypher is shilling, probably for big AltMed.

  • JGC

    I’ve already addressed the problem with the statement in the JPEDS article: the authors state a conclusion but offer no evidence, either in their article or in the articles bibliography, from which that conclusion may be drawn.

    I’m not disputing that improved hygiene etc. greatly reduces the incidence of some infectious diseases. I am disputing that it is sufficient in itself to eradicate infectious diseases or that it will impact the incidence of all infectious diseases, as was cypher’s original claim.

  • JGC

    Fake African measles numbers? I don’t recall positing statistics reading measles infections in Africa. Did you perhaps mean the values for measles death’s worldwide?

  • Cypher

    Tangent. Waiting for your response on the main thread.

  • Cypher

    (removed)

  • JGC

    perhaps if you’d make your posting history public I could identify which post you’re waiting me to respond to?

  • JGC

    RE: Addressing Parents’ Concerns: Do Multiple Vaccines Overwhelm or Weaken the Infant’s Immune System?, I agree with the article’s summarized conclusions that

    Current studies do not support the hypothesis that multiple vaccines overwhelm, weaken, or “use up” the immune system. On the contrary, young infants have an enormous capacity to respond to multiple vaccines, as well as to the many other challenges present in the environment. By providing protection against a number of bacterial and viral pathogens, vaccines prevent the “weakening” of the immune system and consequent secondary bacterial infections occasionally caused by natural infection.

  • Cypher

    Yet another tangent.

    (Distractor classification}

  • Cypher

    You’re not answering my question. You said: “Paul Offit did not say a child could receive 10,000 innocculations at once without consequence…”

    That was wrong.

    Question again is: Do you agree with his assertion that any infant can take up to 10000 vaccines at once? Its a very simple question.

  • Cypher

    Its their only defense. They have nothing substantial. It always shows that they have a weak argument to begin with.

  • JGC

    10,000 vaccines at one time, as they are commonly formulated today? No, unless we’re talking about multivalent vaccines containing thousands of antigens in a standard half mL dose volume.
    But do I agree that a child’s immune system can handle exposure to 10,000 antigens at one time without becoming overwhelmed or otherwise failing to function? Yes.

  • Mike Stevens

    I guess you didn’t like being asked for evidence for your claims.
    Funny how no antivaxer can really step up to the plate when the questions become uncomfortably close to exposing their knowledge vacuum.

  • Mike Stevens

    How about perusing the data from the USA outbreaks of measles in the late 1980s…
    Plenty of “complications” of measles to educate yourself on there:
    https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S4/823958/The-Clinical-Significance-of-Measles-A-Review

  • Cypher

    Now we’re getting somewhere. So for the record you do NOT agree with Paul Offit.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Diarrhea is not an infectious disease.”
    Correct.
    Diarrhoea is the clinical manifestation of infant infective gastroenteritis. That is the main cause of it, though there are some causes of non-infectious diarrhoea.

  • Cypher

    So let’s recap:

    You claimed that cleaner water and sanitation played no role in disease eradication.

    That was wrong.

    You denied that Paul Offit made the claim that any child can take up to 10000 vaccines at once and suffer 0 consequences.

    That was wrong.

    Are you sure you want to continue?

  • FallsAngel

    Yes. It is estimated that pre-vaccine, virtually every US child had a rotavirus infection by age two. That means my kids had it.

  • JGC

    No, I did not claim that cleaner water and sanitation played no role. I claimed that it was insufficient to result in the eradication of infectious diseases, and that it would have little to no impact on the incidence of diseases not spread by waterborne vectors (e.g., airborne diseases like measles).
    I believe that you are willfully misinterpreting what Offit was communicating. If he did state literally that a child could receive 10,000 half-milliliter injections at one time, then clearly not only was he wrong, but I was wrong in not realizing he had misspoken.
    As long as we’re recapping our positions, is it accurate to state that your position is that all that is needed to achieve the eradication of infectious diseases are cleaner water and improved hygiene, and that prophylactic vaccination cannot contribute in any way to reducing the incidence of infection?

  • JGC

    As literally stated? No. I do agree with Offit and the other authors of the article that the existing body of evidence shows that there is no danger a child’s immune system could be overwhelmed or otherwise damaged as the result of receiving multiple vaccinations at one time as called for in the CDC’s recommended childhood vaccination schedule.

  • Cypher

    Sorry, but it not up to you to “interpret” what Offit said. Its there in plain English. Are you now reversing your position?

    Let’s remain on topic and handle one subject at a time. Citation:

    “Each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10000 vaccines at any one time…”.

  • Cypher

    Fair enough. Kindly show me the data that proves that ANY infant regardless of weight can withstand so many vaccines at once. Remember citations, links from peer review studies please.

  • JGC

    The evidence will not be found in a single study, but in multiple studies. I’ll trade citations to per-reviewed for studies finding that infants can handle exposures to multiple antigens as the result of vaccination according to the CDC’s recommended schedule 1 for 1 for citations to peer-reviewed studies demonstrating they cannot.

    I’ll even go first: see DeStefano et al, PMID: 23545349,

  • Cypher

    I guess I misread your previous post. That’s why its so important to give a simple yes or no response to these simple questions. I thought you were saying that you DO agree with Offit. Which is it? Some of your answers seem to be contradictory.

    So why don’t you agree with Offit? Don’t you respect his opinion as an industry expert on the subject?

    Is there a “magic number” of what the limit would be? How is it quantified with real people instead of a computer model?

    In order to make such a claim (exactly 10000) and receive any type of credibility there must be peer reviewed studies.

  • JGC

    Oh, if we’re talking about a theoretical capacity I believe I’d have to agree. as in theory the vaccines could be formulated so that the total exposure to adjuvants, excipients, etc. would be no different than that maximum actual (i.e., non-theoretical) exposure achievable by vaccination according to the current recommended schedule.
    And it’s the solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem–not exposure to 10,000 different antigenic epitopes at once.

  • Cypher

    As I mentioned in the other thread, citations and links please.

  • JGC

    In a previous post you quoted Offit’s statement as (bold for emphasis) ”

    “Each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10000 vaccines at any one time…”
    I’d forgotten that qualifier: if we’re talking about theoretical capacity then I feel I’d have to agree the statement is accurate as expressed as in theory the vaccines could be formulated so that the total exposure to adjuvants, excipients, etc. would be no different than that maximum actual (i.e., non-theoretical) exposure achievable by vaccination according to the current recommended schedule.

    And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem–not exposure to 10,000 different antigenic epitopes at once.

  • JGC

    You cited the article by Offit et al yourself, where the authors present the case.

  • Cypher

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-….”

    Explain, please.

  • Cypher

    Let’s consolidate this thread into the main one.

  • Mike Stevens

    The proof “any” infant can tolerate the multiple shots given in the current schedule is that there are millions of quite healthy kids who have had just that, including my own.

    As for the “10,000 vaccines”, that was merely theoretical, so proof will not be forthcoming.
    He will winge though….

  • Mike Stevens

    He’s wilfully misquoting and misrepresenting Offit, that’s quite clear.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea, injection is problematic…agree?

  • AutismDadd

    And I’m Batman…

  • JGC

    Infants in the first 15 minutes after delivery are exposed to high orders of magnitude more new antigens than they could ever be exposed to even as the result of the most aggressive vaccination program imaginable, without problem. Offit has demonstrated that the immune system has the theoretical capacity to deal with 10,000 or more antigens at once without becoming overwhelmed.
    The problem is that when one starts, speaking instead “10,000 vaccines” instead of “10,000 antigens” unless you qualify the statement (as Offit did with the use of the qualifier “theoretical”) to think in terms of 10,000 individual half-mL innoculations, resulting in 10,000 times the exposure to the adjuvants and excipients included in vaccine formulations.
    That would be 5 liters of vehicle alone–5 IV bags worth of fluid. That’s what would cause any problems, although it wouldn’t be one of the immune system becoming overwhelmed.

  • Cypher

    You keep switching you antigens but you mentioned adjuvants. What “problem” would increased exposure to adjuvants cause, and which adjuvants are more riskier than others?

  • AutismDadd

    Yea JGC the court operates that way on purpose. Just like VAERS. It makes sure evidence cannot be used to show how vaccines destroy children. When you grow up maybe you’ll understand how the world works.

  • JGC

    The evidence doesn’t show that vaccines destroy children, AD.

  • JGC

    You post under the nym Batman? In what forums?

  • JGC

    No.

  • JGC

    He’s hardly the first…

  • AutismDadd

    You just supplied evidence yet you lie.

  • AutismDadd

    Get real dumbass

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. You’ll have to do better that saying DUH

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    And as always , JGorskiC upvotes himself with the same accounts from his scienceblog/sciencebasedmedicine websires. He knows that the only thing that boosts the credibility of garbage that he posts all over internet is the amount of upvotes he can give himself. Never. a single upvote from someone who is not a creature from those smelly blog/websites.

  • AutismDadd

    strawman. New Question do vaccines cause injury and death? Answer YES

  • AutismDadd

    How can you tell any of them apart from Dumb Dumb?

  • AutismDadd

    Gorski is that slime ORAC right?

  • AutismDadd

    eff off ORAC

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    You would not believe it but the cretin Gorski is an MD, though with horrible patient’s reviews. That explains why he needs to troll provaxx on internet on behalf of Offit as if he is a lowly basement creature. He needs Big Pharma protection to keep the job. Plus trolling money for his 3 websites with about 20 associated trolls/accounts come handy. Google “crazy doctor Gorski”

  • Cypher

    Good point. They are all pretty much muppets.

  • AutismDadd

    So Paul Offit the MESSIAH of the Vaccine Cult said a child could handle 10,000 vaccines in one day? Thanks Mike for not lying like you usually do.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea we even let you post, so there you go…

  • Judith

    Thank you Ron for bringing this to our attention – the question is are we becoming petri dishes for big pharma – what a win-win – the endless parade of mutating bacteria and viruses causing untold damage to ourselves and our children and the numerous pharmaceuticals to bandaid the problem. Vaccines are the ideal petri dish for this to happen and because manufacturers bear no risk – the manufacturing is sloppy which has been shown by the recent finding of metal contaminants in most vaccines.

  • Judith

    Points to Consider on Plasmid DNA Vaccines for Preventive Infectious Disease Indications. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, Office of Vaccine Research and Review, December 1996. Full article available at http://www.fda.gov/cber/gdlns/plasmid.txt

    One of the major concerns with these methods is the unpredictability and interaction of the final vaccine product with the proteins or DNA of the host. A document from the FDA states: “Genetic toxicity: Integration of the plasmid DNA vaccine into the genome of the vaccinated subjects is an important theoretical risk to consider in preclinical studies. The concern is that an integrated vaccine may result in insertional mutagenesis through the activation of oncogenes or inactivation of tumor suppressor genes. In addition, an integrated plasmid DNA vaccine may result in chromosomal instability through the induction of chromosomal breaks or rearrangements.” (105). Another group advises, “Research findings in gene therapy and vaccine development show that naked/free nucleic acids constructs are readily taken up by the cells of all species including human beings. These nucleic acid constructs can become integrated into the cell’s genome and such integration may result in harmful biological effects, including cancers.” (106). And to reiterate the danger of tumorigenic cell lines, a researcher says, “More recently, recombinant DNA technology has expanded beyond bacterial cells to mammalian cells, some of which may also be tumorigenic.” (107).

    http://www.rense.com/general32/thrur.htm

  • Cypher

    If he’s an MD it totally explains his utter lack of education of the medieval chemical injections and his lack of historical knowledge of diseases. MDs are not given any in depth training in vaccines other than the talking points: “Vaccines are safe and effective. Here’s the schedule. Go push it.”

  • Judith

    In 2012, Dr. Neethu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Pulijel from the Department of Pediatrics at St. Stephens Hospital, Delhi, India, published the article “Polio Programme: Let us declare victory and move on” in the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics. Doctors Vashisht and Pulijel are stressing that: “In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated. The principle of primum-non-nocere was violated.” … The massive funding of a pro-Polio-vaccination campaign with contributions by, among others, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and Monsanto was detailed in the article “Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program caused 47,500 cases of Paralysis Death“.

  • Cypher

    You keep changing the topic from adjuvants to antigens and I want you to explain what you mean by the following:

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-…..”

  • Judith

    Are you saying that vaccines are not chemical injections?

    Can you tell me which are healthy??

    Dtap (Infanrix)- formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, polysorbate 80, Fenton medium (containing bovine extract), modified Latham medium (derived from bovine casein), modified Stainer-Scholte liquid medium.

    Dtap (Daptacel)- aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, 2- phenoxyethanol, Stainer-Scholte medium, modified Mueller’s growth medium, modified Mueller-Miller casamino medium (without beef heart infusion), dimethyl-1-beta-cyclodextrin, ammonium sulfate.

    Dtap+IPV (Kinrix)- formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, vero (monkey kidney) cells, calf serum, lactalbumin hydrolysate, polysorbate 80, neomycin sulfate, polymyxin B, Fenton medium (containing bovine extract), modified Latham medium (derived from bovine casein), modified Stainer-Scholte liquid medium.

    Dtap+Hep B+IPV (Pediarix)- formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, lactalbumin hydrolysate, polysorbate 80, neomycin sulfate, polymyxin B, yeast protein, calf serum, Fenton medium (containing bovine extract), modified Latham medium (derived from bovine casein), modified Stainer-Scholte liquid medium, Vero (monkey kidney) cells.

    Dtap+IPV+Hib (Pentacel)- aluminum phosphate, polysorbate 80, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, bovine serum albumin, 2-phenoxyethanol, neomycin, polymyxin B sulfate, Mueller’s growth medium, Mueller-Miller casamino acid medium (without beef heart infusion), Stainer-Scholte medium (modified by the addition of casamino acids and dimethyl-beta-cyclodextrin), MRC-5 (human diploid) cells, CMRL 1969 medium (supplemented with calf serum), ammonium sulfate, medium 199.

    Hib (ActHIB)- ammonium sulfate, formalin, sucrose, modified Mueller and Miller medium.

    Hib (Hiberix)- formaldehyde, lactose, semi- synthetic medium.

    Hib (PedvaxHIB)- aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, ethanol, enzymes, phenol, detergent, complex fermentation medium.

    Hib+Hep B (Comvax)- yeast (vaccine contains no detectable yeast DNA), nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, hemin chloride, soy peptone, dextrose, mineral salts, amino acids, formaldehyde, potassium aluminum sulfate, amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, sodium borate, phenol, ethanol, enzymes, detergent.

    Hep A (Vaqta)- amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, bovine albumin, formaldehyde, neomycin, sodium borate, MRC-5 (human diploid) cells.

    Hep A (Havrix)- aluminum hydroxide, amino acid supplement, polysorbate 80, formalin, neomycin sulfate, MRC-5 cellular proteins.

    Hep A+Hep B (Twinrix)- formalin, yeast protein, aluminum phosphate, aluminum hydroxide, amino acids, phosphate buffer, polysorbate 20, neomycin sulfate, MRC-5 human diploid cells.

    Hep B (Engerix-B)- aluminum hydroxide, yeast protein, phosphate buffers.

    Hep B (Recombivax)- yeast protein, soy peptone, dextrose, amino acids, mineral salts, potassium aluminum sulfate, amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, formaldehyde.

    HPV (Cervarix)- vitamins, amino acids, lipids, mineral salts, aluminum hydroxide, sodium dihydrogen phosphate dihydrate, insect cell and viral protein, 3-0-desacyl-4′ Monophosphoryl lipid.

    HPV (Gardasil)- yeast protein, vitamins, amino acids, mineral salts, carbohydrates, amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate.

    Influenza (Fluzone: standard, high dose)- formaldehyde, octylphenol ethoxylate (Triton X-100), gelatin (standard trivalent formulation only), thimerosal (multi-dose vial only), egg protein, phosphate buffers, sucrose.

    Influenza (Fluvirin)- nonylphenol ethoxylate, thimerosal (multi-dose only in prefilled syringe), polymyxin, neomycin, beta-propiolactone, egg proteins.

    Influenza (Flulaval)- thimerosal, a-tocopheryl hydrogen succinate, polysorbate 80, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate, ovalbumin.

    Influenza (Flumist)- ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), monosodium glutamate, hydrolyzed porcine gelatin, arginine, sucrose, dibasic potassium phosphate, monosodium potassium phosphate, gentamicin sulfate, egg protein

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

    Meningococcal (MCV4-Menactra)- formaldehyde, phosphate buffers, Mueller Hinton agar, Watson Scherp media, modified Mueller and Miller medium.

    Meningococcal (MCV4- Menceo)- formaldehyde, amino acids, yeast extract, Franz complete medium, CY medium.

    Meningococcal (MPSV4- Menomune)- thimerosal (multi-dose vial only), lactose, Mueller Hinton casein agar, Watson Scherp media, detergent, alcohol.

    MMR (MMR-II)- recombinant human albumin, neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin, chick embryo cell culture, WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts, Medium 199, minimum essential medium, phosphate

    Live virus vaccine that has to potential to shed.

    MMRV (ProQuad)- sucrose, hydrolyzed gelatin, sorbitol, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium phosphate dibasic, human albumin, sodium bicarbonate, potassium phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride, potassium phosphate dibasic, neomycin, bovine calf serum, chick embryo cell culture, WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts, MRC-5 cells

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

    Pneumococcal (PCV13- Prevnar 13)- casamino acids, yeast, ammonium sulfate, polysorbate 80, succinate suffer, aluminum phosphate

    Pneumococcal (PPSV-23-Pneumovax)- isotonic saline solution, phenol.

    Polio (IPV- Ipol- 2-phenoxyethanol, formaldehyde, neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin B, monkey kidney cells, Eagle MEM modified medium, calf serum protein.

    Rotavirus (RotaTeq)- sucrose, sodium citrate, sodium phosphate monobasic monohydrate, sodium hydroxide, polysorbate 80, cell culture media, fetal bovine serum, vero cells [DNA from porcine circoviruses (PVC) 1 and 2 has been detected in RotaTeq. PCV-1 and PCV-2 is not known to cause disease in humans]

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

    Rotavirus (Rotarix)- amino acids, dextran, sorbitol, sucrose, calcium carbonate, xanthan, Dulbecco’s modified Eagle Medium (DMEM) [Porcine circovirus type 1 (PCV-1) is present in Rotarix. PCV-1 is not known to cause disease in humans]

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

    Tdap (Boostrix)- formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, polysorbate 80 (tween 80), Latham medium derived from bovine casein, Fenton medium containing a bovine extract, Stainer-Scholte liquid medium.

    Tdap (Adacel)- aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, 2-phenoxyethanol, ammonium sulfate, Stainer-Scholte medium, dimethyl-beta cyclodextrin, modified Mueller’s growth medium, Mueller-Miller casamino acid medium (without beef heart infusion).

    Varicella (Varivax)- sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, gelatin. Monosodium L-glutamate, sodium phosphate dibasic, potassium phosphate monobasic, EDTA, residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein, neomycin, fetal bovine serum, human diploid cell cultures

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

    Zoster (Shingles-Zostavax)- sucrose, hydrolyzed porcine gelatin, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium phosphate dibasic, potassium phosphate monobasic, neomycin, potassium chloride, residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein, bovine calf serum

    Live virus vaccine that has the potential to shed.

  • Judith

    http://www.ebiomedicine.com/article/S2352-3964(17)30046-4/abstract

    When DTP and OPV were introduced in Guinea-Bissau in 1981, allocation by birthday resulted in a natural experiment of being vaccinated early or late.

    •Between 3 and 5 months of age, children who received DTP and OPV early had 5-fold higher mortality than still unvaccinated children.

    Results

    Among 3–5-month-old children, having received DTP (±OPV) was associated with a mortality hazard ratio (HR) of 5.00 (95% CI 1.53–16.3) compared with not-yet-DTP-vaccinated children. Differences in background factors did not explain the effect. The negative effect was particularly strong for children who had received DTP-only and no OPV (HR = 10.0 (2.61–38.6)). All-cause infant mortality after 3 months of age increased after the introduction of these vaccines (HR = 2.12 (1.07–4.19)).

    Conclusion

    DTP was associated with increased mortality; OPV may modify the effect of DTP.

  • Judith

    Both Rotarix- and Rotateq – current vaccines in use -have been found to be contaminated with pig viruses.

    However we can trust the experts because the vast majority of “scientific literature” on the long term consequences of injecting our children with pig viruses revealed there is “no evidence” that pig viruses pose a risk to humans.

    Seems we can put anything into our bodies .. mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum, pig viruses and pig DNA .. not a problem.

    Newborn deaths lead France to reconsider two vaccines

    L’Express, Agence France Presse and other media in France report that two oral vaccines now recommended for newborns — Rotarix and RotaTeq — may be pulled from the country’s list of recommended vaccines following two deaths and more than 500 adverse events, 200 of them termed “serious.” These vaccines are thought to be causing intussusception, a serious condition in which the bowel folds on itself, causing a blockage and sometimes death.

    The media coverage follows a report from France’s Technical Committee of Pharmacovigilance to France’s Directorate General of Health that “questioned the appropriateness of recommending widespread vaccination in France.”

    http://vaccinefactcheck.org/2015/04/05/newborn-deaths-lead-france-to-reconsider-two-vaccines/

    Rotarix, manufactured by GSK, and RotaTeq, manufactured by Merck, were approved for the French market in 2006 and 2007. These vaccines, which are also licensed in Canada and the U.S., became the subject of controversy in the US in 2010 when they were found to be contaminated, leading to their temporary suspension by the Food and Drug Administration. RotaTeq has also attracted controversy because it was patented by scientist Paul Offit, an outspoken advocate for mandatory vaccinations. An earlier rotavirus vaccine, Wyeth’s RotaShield, was withdrawn from the market in 1999, nine months after it became available in the US, following more than 100 cases of intussusception and one death.

  • Judith

    There is no evidence that vaccination is creating more good than harm. Whilst it may reduce infectious disease – many of which have a natural role in priming the immune system and preventing many other diseases such as cancer, asthma. The incidence of chronic disease is rising in every country that has a high vaccine schedule.

    With one in two Australians now suffering from a chronic disease, it’s essential we have safety nets designed to protect patients who need ongoing, costly primary care or hospitalisation. – federal health minister, Sussan Ley, press release, October 21, 2015.

    According to the Minister’s office, Minister Ley’s comment was based on the chronic disease data released by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) in August this year.

    https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-one-in-two-australians-suffer-from-a-chronic-disease-49654

  • Judith

    A team of researchers from the Yale School of Medicine and PennState College of Medicine have found a disturbing

    association between the timing of vaccines and the onset of certain braindisorders in a subset of children.

    Analyzing five years’ worth of private health insurance data on children ages 6-15, these scientists found that young people vaccinated in the previous three to 12 months were significantly more likely to be diagnosed with certain neuropsychiatric disordersthan their non-vaccinated counterparts.

    This new study, which raises important questions about whether over-vaccination may be triggering immune and neurological damage in a subset of vulnerable children (something parents of children with autism have been saying for years), was published in the peer-reviewed journal Frontiers in Psychiatry, Jan. 19.

    More than 95,000 children in the database that were analyzed had one of seven neuropsychiatric disorders: anorexia nervosa, anxiety disorder, attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), bipolar disorder, major depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and tic disorder.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Both Rotarix- and Rotateq – current vaccines in use -have been found to be contaminated with pig viruses.”

    Yes, that is absolutely awful, isn’t it Judith.
    Non-viable fragments of porcine circovirus have been detected in some vaccines that are given by mouth to infants.
    Do you have any idea how many LIVE animal viruses are routinely fed to infants? ….All that pork and apple puree? That beef stew? Lamb mince? Chicken casserole?
    OMG Horror of horrors!!!111!!! All those hundreds of animal viruses!!

    These scare stories are years old Judith. NOTHING bad has happened.
    Stop spreading FUD about vaccines.

  • Judith

    Didn’t your mother advise you never to eat raw meat. Cooking inactivates viruses. The vaccine does not contain killed viruses.

  • FallsAngel

    Twenty-one and fifteen year old information. Keep up, Judy.

  • Cypher

    ..
    You keep changing the topic from adjuvants to antigens and I want you to explain what you mean by the following:

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-…..”

  • Mike Stevens

    The vaccine contained fragments of DNA, Judith, not some viable, whole live virus.
    Stop scaremongering. Next you’ll be saying “Beware! Vaccines are deadly because they contain hydrogen hydroxide!”

    Many people eat undercooked meat, or even raw meat.
    Not a great idea for other reasons, but it happens.

  • Cypher

    You keep changing the topic from adjuvants to antigens and I want you to explain what you mean by the following:

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-…..”

  • Cypher

    >–You keep changing the topic from adjuvants to antigens and I want you to explain what you mean by the following:

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-…..”

  • Cypher

    Awesome post.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    There is plenty of evidence that you are failed internet addict Gorski.
    1. Linguistically undistingishable from Gorski, based on his posts on his 3 pharma financed websites. Same expressions , cliches, obsessive compulsive repetitiveness.
    2. Same pathetic attempts at being witty and sarcastic, usually at the end of the post.
    3. Same style of repeating someone’s post and interspersing denials, often with links to the same pharma/Monsanto affiliated pro vaccine and proGMO websites or fraudulent studies, or the exactly same citations
    .4. Always upvoted by the same set of accounts (here and on all other websites that you land on for your trolling). All of the upvoting co trolls are from the same set of about 20 accounts that congregate on Gorski’s blogs. Upvotes sometimes appear immediately even on stale posts. These mutual upvotes are used to give legitimacy to repetitive verbal trash, characteristic to Gorski’s set of co-trolls. Never ever upvotes from posters that are not associated with Gorski (because real people are nauseated from your boring repetitive lies)

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Yes, he is. The Offit’s dog, always mutates with different names but the same content and the same co troll upvotes wherever vaccine truth article is published on internet, unless the website boots him out with his unsavory team. The purpose is to make discussion board littered with trash and unreadable. Unfortunately, vactruth allows this troll brigade, and amount of people participating in discussion with valuable posts here.greatly diminished because of this. Remember, there was Roxanne and many other some couple of years ago? Now they all left.

  • Ron Roy

    ”And hopefully, one that does not accept cash only payments for service” Or tell you you have cancer, when you really don’t, so he can make a small fortune by giving you chemo and radiation treatments. O wait that was a board certified oncologist ( Dr. Fata ) You know one of those doctors Proponent wants you to trust.

  • Ron Roy

    A close friend who worked in the military as a microbiologist for 32 years and made vaccine against germs that could be used in biological warfare admitted to me ( after he retired ) that he was clueless as to the possible negative effects of vaccines.He admitted that when in college no one dared ask questions that would be considered radical.Don’t make waves was the order of the day.After reading some of the material I have on vaccines I asked him if he would vaccinate his kids at this point? His answer was no freaking way.

  • AutismDadd

    Don’t recall roxanne, but the bullying from JGC and Acleron, FalseAngel and more do drive some away.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    This is easy. The USA in the 1950s was not Third World, average 40o measles deaths. Post vaccine, close to zero. So, the mortality rate in the pre-vaccine era, higher. Now, you want me to calculate the rate for free riders hiding in the herd. If there are only a few, they’ll get away with it, but it isn’t ethical if efficient.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Son, we had plumbing in the USA back then, and clean water, too. You REALLY want to argue that the sudden drop in measles in the year the vaccine was released is from a new brand of toilet paper?

  • AutismDadd

    eff off gorski

  • AutismDadd

    Vaccines just take one problem away while creating dozens of other problems. Yet those considered so highly because they created vaccines are really pathetic psychopaths and sociopaths because they say nothing about adverse effects and portray their inventions as near flawless and health giving. Wake up consumers!

  • FallsAngel

    Don’t squeeze the Charmin, guys!

  • AutismDadd

    Judith, I’ve been having it out with this Austrian Thoms Mohr about the GSK Pluserix / Trivurix that is the MMR that brought Wakefield et al on to the world stage. It was used in Britain even thought rejected in Canada due to serious safety concerns, then withdrawn by GSK worldwide. It was the urabe strain within that was the issue. Have you read up on it?

  • AutismDadd

    Gorski/ORAC has no conscience.

  • FallsAngel

    Shock and awe, you mean. Totally shocking that she’s so dumb. She doesn’t understand what that means.

  • AutismDadd

    You typically ask that knowing there are no recognized studies and that repeated requests for vac vs unvac studies from congressional hearings fall on the deaf ears of congressmen who receive “campaign contributions” from vaccine makers. So its a strawman and its intentional.

  • AutismDadd

    JGC asked that knowing the studies haven’t been done. The only studies done are paid for by vaccine proponents and I think we know there are foregone conclusions involved.

  • AutismDadd

    FalseAngel arrives with some drive by stupid

  • Cypher

    I’m currently having a 1:1 debate and you are WAAAY behind in this discussion judging by your little meaningless tidbit. Wait your turn, junior. Until then, welcome to Block City.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    That’s because there ARE infectious diseases, like typhus, for which this matters. But there are also diseases like measles and polio, where either it doesn’t matter at all, or where the effects of a higher standard of living has plateaued.

    Lurkers: Antivaxers reject the germ theory of disease in favor of a filth theory of disease, and a sense their own good health is not from widespread vaccination, but from kale, yoga, and correct use of toilet paper.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Leaving aside your nonsense about autism, I can assure you that measles, polio, diphtheria, and so on also cause brain damage and death. What is your problem understanding that? Let me guess, you think people were too stupid to eat kale back then.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    You can’t handle multiple opponents, take it to email.

    Your theory has a fatal flaw visible to anyone over 60. Measles pretty much vanished, suddenly. Introduction of a vaccine can explain that. Small decrease in outhouses does not.

    By the way, polio incidence was higher in the middle and upper classes whose water and sewerage were no worse then than now.

    Better hygiene and nutrition knocked out cholera, typhus, scurvy. But not measles and polio.

    Sorry if I am a day or two behind. On vacation, and writing on a phone.

  • Ron Roy

    (”Nonsense–contracting some infections (e.g., pertussis) doesn’t always provide permanent immunity thereafte’) ‘In particular, Rohani and Wearing looked for matches in two key
    measures: the number of years between big outbreaks and the frequency of
    “extinctions”—periods of time when no whooping cough cases were
    reported in the population. The analysis revealed that, on average,
    whooping cough immunity lasts at least 30 years and perhaps as long as
    70 years after natural infection”.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091029211528.htm I would say 30 to 70 years quite sufficient.

  • Judith

    Yes Autism Dadd- the compete media freeze on this is telling.

    Wakefield claimed that there was no evidence that the single measles vaccine caused a problem – it was only when the measles mumps, rubella were combined that the autism issue started to arise. He advocated for a single vaccine – i.e. take it one step at a time. However The UK GMC unlicensed single vaccines AFTER parents were already concerned about MMR safety and were made unavailable. There’s little doubt the live Urabe Mumps component of the MMR vaccine at that time caused widespread problems, in particular viral meningitis, which is known to cause encephalitis, which in turn can lead to brain damage causing ‘autism like symptoms’– it was NOT the UK Government which withdrew the vaccines. Instead, the manufacturers SmithKlineBeecham (now GSK) and Merieux UK, withdrew these vaccines, plainly concerned about the possibility of litigation for the injuries caused by them.

    The UK Government machine immediately went into ‘cover up’ mode, including a 20 year suppression of all official papers pertaining to the Urabe MMR vaccine and its aftermath. These papers SHOULD have been released to the press and media in January 2010, in accordance with usual UK practice. Instead, the release was delayed until June 2010, coinciding with the GMC guilty verdicts on the three doctors. Even then, only a couple of reports surfaced in the Scottish Herald and Scottish Daily Mail.

    The dead Urabe MMR was replaced but the vaccine we have now is much weaker and lasts for only 4 -5 years.

  • Judith

    The dozens of other problems can easily be ignored because they often happen years down the track – If you were trying to work out if lung cancer was caused by cigarettes – you wouldn’t compare one brand against another would you…This is what they do with vaccines. No proper vaccinated/unvaccinated studies have been done. The science behind vaccines is undone. The IOM have admitted that so has Cochrane.

  • Judith

    The pertussis and mumps vaccines have failed to protect. And now the FDA is trying to figure out what to do about it.

    March 2016 FDA Consumer Updates

    FDA Researchers Advance Science for Vaccines to Prevent Mumps and Whooping Cough

    “This work is being done because reported cases of mumps and whooping cough (also called “pertussis”) have risen in recent years, even though many people are vaccinated.

    According to the researchers at the FDA, when the mumps vaccine was given as a third dose, the protection only lasted for one year

    His findings suggest that although people immunized with acellular vaccines may be protected from whooping cough symptoms (sometimes referred to as being “asymptomatic”), they may still become infected. And these people can then infect others, including infants.

    “That was an important finding. It provided a path forward,” Merkel explains. “Now our work is focused on trying to understand the ways we can improve the vaccine so it prevents infection and transmission, in addition to preventing disease symptoms.”

    Vaccination ultimately may increase epidemics due to short term immunity and a greater susceptibility to infection in older people.

    We can foresee that vaccination will have two conflicting effects . . . it will reduce the number of newborn susceptibles and hence should have some of the usual associated public-health benefits reducing the number of cases in young children. However, this reduction in cases will lead to a reduction in boosting and therefore a greater susceptibility to infection in older age classes . . . When immunity wanes, vaccination has a far more limited impact on the average number of cases. While this observation has clear public-health implications, the dynamic consequences of the interaction between vaccination, waning immunity and boosting are far more striking. For high levels of vaccination (greater than 80%) and moderate levels of waning immunity (greater than 30 years), large-scale epidemic cycles can be induced.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677258/

  • Judith

    “Lurkers this is all BS says pharma agent FallsAngel. Please parents read what is in the vaccines you are giving your children. Also read the
    safety education packages for full disclosure about the vaccines.

    http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

  • FallsAngel

    Pharma agent? I’m a nurse, RN. We used to run and hide when the pharma reps showed up.

  • Hans

    The scientific community is well aware that protection from pertussis and mumps wanes over time. This is why guidelines are continuously being updated, and currently recommend adults have a booster of both DTaP and MMR. It is also recommended all pregnant women receive a DTaP in their third trimester in order to provide their vulnerable newborn with antibodies until they are old enough to be vaccinated themselves.
    It is well known vaccinated persons are less symptomatic if they do become infected. But the unvaccinated are far more likely to be infected and spread the disease in the first place. The major point that must be understood is that the absolute number of circulating cases of Pertussis has only been able to increase over recent years because of decreasing vaccination rates. Waning immunity and passive transmission would not be an issue if the disease hadn’t been given the opportunity to increase prevalence again in the first place due to decreasing vaccination rates. This should not be interpreted as vaccinations don’t work so what’s the point. Seatbelts don’t provide 100% protection either.

  • shay simmons

    the elimination of disease morbidity was due to cleaner water and plumbing

    As a resident of North America who survived the most common childhood diseases, let me assure you that back in the 1950s and 60s we lived in houses with indoor plumbing, clean running water, and refrigerators.

  • shay simmons

    If your close friend worked for 32 years for the military, his kids have already had their vaccinations at this point.

  • AutismDadd

    Their ace in the hole is government involvement at many levels. Only government could stop it, but with government partnering, there is no way to police policy and the unethical practice.

  • AutismDadd

    Thanks Judith, I figured you’d have some important details.

  • AutismDadd

    Yep. I can’t say I received a whooping cough vac ever and have never had it. Can’t say I know anyone who had it.

  • AutismDadd

    Citation required

  • AutismDadd

    Or safety studies where a BABY receives a batch of vaccines in one visit. We hear this often, change after a series of vaccines.

  • AutismDadd

    Page 2 Shill manual. You must be a new recruit.

  • Stace325

    Thx disque! I’m not familiar with Gorski’s blog. I am familiar with Offit (VOMIT) and only recently ran across Dorit Reiss. I’ll definitely take a closer look at them as you recommended. The only thing I hate more than Trolls…are…(thinking). Nope, Trolls top my list. Peace Out my friend

  • Stace325

    HAHAHA! Too Funny. I almost missed that.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Can you tell me which are healthy??”

    Well, some of those are quite “healthy” in the broadest definition, and in fact some are essential for life or requisite constituents of healthy human cells like the scary sounding “amino acids”, protein, glutamate, potassium chloride etc. The others are present in such tiny doses that the possible adverse effects are infinitesmal.

    What do you think of the scary chemicals present in a cup of tea, Judith?

    PS: Note how your source admits porcine circovirus does not cause human disease?? [and that’s the whole, live virus he is talking about, which isn’t even in vaccines, not just some DNA fragments which used to be in rotarix!]
    Heh!

  • Mike Stevens

    “There were no pneumonia vaccines at the turn of the [last] century”
    Well, they were introduced in 1911. Just sayin’
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10690790

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. The CDC stats again. Credibility zero

  • AutismDadd

    When he says your group he means Vaccine Safety Advocates. Ploponent hates safety advocates.

  • AutismDadd

    eff off Mike

  • Ruth

    I think it’s because they consider germ theory to be too old fashioned. Kind of like getting exited about a horse and cart instead of space age technology. Also because it relies a lot on fear (all germs are dangerous and you’re all going to die, blah, blah, blah type thing) to encourage compliance. The science of immunology is still relatively new. Most of our genes are made up of viral DNA. We have more bugs on us and in us than we have our own cells. Vaccines aren’t going to do anything about that.

  • Ruth

    You are interpreting his words with a desire to defend him. I’m sure he appreciates it.

  • Judith

    So Mike is trying to hoodwink you into thinking eating something is the same as injecting it – totally untrue. He knows that but he thinks he will get away with such lies.

    “When we eat protein it is broken down into its constituent amino acids…if a foreign animal protein makes it into our bloodstream without having being broken down this can set up an autoimmune type response…By injecting things never meant to be in the body we are not only bypassing body defenses but wrongly activating other defenses.” — Dr. Robyn Crosford

    So what’s the outcome if you inject amino acids and/or foreign animal and human protein into the body instead of first digesting the proteins to make amino acids naturally?

    Auto-immune disorders like Addison’s disease, celiac disease – sprue (gluten-sensitive enteropathy), dermatomyositis, Graves disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, multiple sclerosis, myasthenia gravis, pernicious anemia, reactive arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren syndrome, systemic lupus erythematosus, type I diabetes etc.

    Food allergies or food sensitivities associated with eggs, gluten, peanuts, milk, etc.”

    One of the major concerns with these methods is the unpredictability and interaction of the final vaccine product with the proteins or DNA of the host. A document from the FDA states: “Genetic toxicity: Integration of the plasmid DNA vaccine into the genome of the vaccinated subjects is an important theoretical risk to consider in preclinical studies. The concern is that an integrated vaccine may result in insertional mutagenesis through the activation of oncogenes or inactivation of tumor suppressor genes. In addition, an integrated plasmid DNA vaccine may result in chromosomal instability through the induction of chromosomal breaks or rearrangements.” (105). Another group advises, “Research findings in gene therapy and vaccine development show that naked/free nucleic acids constructs are readily taken up by the cells of all species including human beings. These nucleic acid constructs can become integrated into the cell’s genome and such integration may result in harmful biological effects, including cancers.” (106). And to reiterate the danger of tumorigenic cell lines, a researcher says, “More recently, recombinant DNA technology has expanded beyond bacterial cells to mammalian cells, some of which may also be tumorigenic.” (107).

    http://www.rense.com/general32/thrur.htm

    “Residual DNA might be a risk to the final product because of oncogenic and/or infectivity potential. There are several potential mechanisms by which residual DNA could be oncogenic, including the integration and expression of encoded oncogenes or insertional mutagenesis following DNA integration. Residual DNA also might be capable of transmitting viral infections if retroviral proviruses, integrated copies of DNA viruses, or extrachromosomal genomes are present.”

    http://www.sfda.gov.sa/ar/drug/resources/DocLib2/GuidelinesforProductionandQualityControlofVaccines_v21.pdf

  • Judith

    What about over 3.5 billion paid out to the vaccine court even though less than 1 – 10% of all adverse reactions are reported and the fact that it is a very difficult road to get any compo from the vaccine court.
    Vaccines are unavoidably unsafe…

  • Judith

    Oh it is getting hard for poor old JGC to justify his pharma disinformation dialogue…it just isn’t stacking up.

  • Judith

    He provided the link – why are you denying the truth

  • Judith

    Thank you Cypher – you have forced Cypher and Mike
    Stevens into a corner – they cannot answer your question truthfully.

  • Judith

    Contradictory much….

  • Judith

    I note Cypher is unable to respond to your question

  • Judith

    Waiting for a reply from JGC – I think you pushed him into a corner.

  • Cypher

    Thanks Judith. Yes, their strategy is pretty pathetic and transparent. Eventually they all crumble and get tricked up by their own words.

  • Cypher

    Yup. He probably blocked me. Too bad. It was getting interesting. :-))

  • You real name is Bullshit and your fake name is shillary JGC. You have not offered SH$IT so stop lying, and burn in HELL.

  • So you only link backward to an article that the the replies are now closed.

    You either don’t get it, or you are lying. The situation has entirely changed since then, and the guy that the medial mafia had funded for many years was fired, and because he became to high a risk, (and no you don”t access to get the story). In fact, you were as well already told this on a previously article. I have no concern for that anymore and as to the funding he was previously receiving. Thus I am now free to do anything I want to. Your level sickness is far to obvious for anyone to ignore, Proponent. And why are you so cowardly that you can not use a real name and identity, like I do? And yet in your stupidity, you would claim to yet have any credibility left. Really? You shill people are a sick and stupid joke.

  • No I did NOT and your false information, stupidity, and incorrectness, is borderline to a derelict that has not the cognitive ability to anything but, and anything more than just PIS$ his pants.

  • post hoc ergo proctor hoc … mentally deficient and defective JGC. Face it you are entirely LOST!!!

  • Lets see your most credible piece of study information showing the safety of multiple vaccines given over a period of years and as well when given from 5 and up to 9 or more vaccines to a small child in a single day and office visit??????????????? Can’t do it . . . . can you? Without that you do not have $hit . . . so just face it.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Would you jump out a ten-story window because gravity is old-fashioned?

    Although I am old-fashioned enough to know people permanently crippled by the polio germ.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Denying the truth”???
    Don’t make me laugh, Judith. It is you and Cypher who are lying and deliberately misrepresenting what Offit said.
    Nowhere does it say that Paul Offit claimed that a child could receive “10,000 vaccinations at once without consequence”.
    It is very clear that what Offit stated was that the human is theoretically capable of immunologically responding to the antigenic challenge equivalent to 10,000 vaccinations at the same time.
    This is entirely different from what Cypher and you have stated.
    If you lack the basic comprehension to understand simple English, perhaps you should not post comments on the internet.

    Why do antivaxers always lie?
    Here are Offit’s exact words again, just for your benefit:

    “each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10 000 vaccines at any one time.

  • Mike Stevens

    Judith, JGC has stated several times his acceptance that clean water and sanitation led to the major reduction in infectious disease incidence and mortality – so stop suggesting that he or anyone else do not accept this.

    But this disease reduction applies to diseases primarily transmitted through feco-oral contact – you know the dysenteries, the cholera, the typhoid etc.

    Diseases primarily transmitted by the airborne route (measles, diphtheria, pertussis, chickenpox, influenza etc did NOT declined significantly in incidence (outside the natural cyclical variation following occasional outbreaks/epidemics)
    It took vaccination to do that.

    This strawman of yours has been trotted out so often by you antivaxers that it has hardly any stuffing left in it.

  • Mike Stevens

    And I note you and Cypher have been unable to respond to his questions…

  • Mike Stevens

    Ah, the old “Have you stopped beating your wife” question…

    Your malignant deviousness will not wash, Judith.
    It is patently clear that Offit is talking about the THEORETICAL capacity of the infant immune system to respond to vaccination challenges – He specifically says so.

    What’s the matter… can’t you read plain English? Pretending he was suggesting an infant could tolerate 10,000 injection events, each of 0.5ml volume (which would amount to 50% more than the entire weight of a newborn infant) is utterly ridiculous.

    Why do antivaxers always lie?
    It must be because the truth for them is highly “inconvenient”, and readily displays the fact that vaccines are safe and effective.

  • Mike Stevens

    Ah, you mean the fact that NVICP has compensated for table injuries (not necessarily caused by the vaccine) at the astonishingly low rate of 0.7 per 1 million vaccinations shots given?

    That makes vaccines one of the safest interventions known to mankind, Judith.
    A child is more likely to make the USA Olympic team (when they grow up) than suffer a serious vaccine reaction.

  • Mike Stevens

    Judith, it doesn’t matter how the “chemicals” enter the circulation – they can be either injected, or ingested.
    …Unless you are telling us that things we swallow go through the GI tract intact? Cellulose is one such compound, there are very few things that pass through completely unabsorbed.

    I see you are concerned about foreign “DNA” entering humans.
    What a strange phobia… It must be so difficult for you to gain any nourishment when you are depriving yourself of all animal and plant material.
    Are you a breatharian, by any chance?

  • Ben

    Do you really think that’s Gorski?

  • Mike Stevens

    Thanks for pointing out that medical research continues on how to improve current vaccines, Judith.

    One wonders why “BigPharma” needs to do this. Isn’t it just a complete waste of money? I mean, if vaccines worked better, that would reduce the incidence of all those nasty diseases that pharma make money from treating, and they are already deliberately giving us vaccines specifically designed to damage and destroy our children, ostensibly so they can gain some later financial benefit from selling us treatments for their cancers and other horrible chronic illnesses, which as we all know are caused directly by the vaccines. Or so the antivaccine narrative tells us.

    So why are they researching better vaccines?
    Perhaps you need to alert someone at BigPharma-GlaxoGates$anofi Central that they are doing things all wrong?

    Here is their contact:
    [email protected]

  • Mike Stevens

    Ah, and as you yourself said Judith, the word of the IOM is sacrosanct…
    So what was their conclusion about vaccine safety in their published review “Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality”?

    This:
    “An analysis of more than 1,000 research articles concluded that few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines.”
    http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality/Press-Release.aspx

  • Ron Roy

    ”As a resident of North America who survived the most common childhood
    diseases, let me assure you that back in the 1950s and 60s we lived in
    houses with indoor plumbing, clean running water, and refrigerators” AND YOU SURVIVED THOSE DISEASES WITHOUT BEING VACCINATED. You made Cypher’s point..

  • Mike Stevens

    “There’s little doubt the live Urabe Mumps component of the MMR vaccine
    at that time caused widespread problems, in particular viral meningitis,
    which is known to cause encephalitis, which in turn can lead to brain
    damage causing ‘autism like symptoms’ “

    Interesting take on the facts, Judith. The truth is somewhat different to your interpretation:
    1. Urabe-strain vaccine caused aseptic meningitis in one in around 14,000 vaccination shots. That is hardly “widespread”.
    2. Aseptic meningitis is almost always inconsequential. It resolves completely. It does not evolve into “encephalitis”, although hthat is something that can occur with natural mumps infection. Encephalitis following Urabe strain mumps vaccine is vanishingly rare.
    3. Natural mumps causes aseptic meningitis in 5-10% of children.

    So a question or two:
    1. Why are you deliberately inflating the seriousness of the vaccine related complication, and
    2. Why are you ignoring the fact that this complication occurs one thousand times more frequently following natural mumps infection than after Urabe MMR vaccination?
    3. Why do you lie so much?

  • sabelmouse

    misunderstanding, lol. pros always mix up mortality and morbidity for a very good reason.

  • JGC

    I’ll trade you citations 1 for 1, Lowell. The first article that comes to my mind regarding the “too many too soon” anti-vax talking point would be ‘Increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in vaccines is not associated with risk of autism”, DeStefano et al, PMID: 23545349

    Now please provide a citation to a peer-reviewed journal article providing evidence showing that multiple vaccines given over a period of years is unsafe. Once we’ve identified the two articles we’ll be discussing first we can begin a more detailed dialogue.

  • JGC

    Sorry–auto-correct keeps wanting to replace ‘propter’ with ‘proctor’ and sometimes I don’t catch the typo.
    That is what you’re addressing, isn’t it? The typo?

  • JGC

    Good luck with that whole name-calling thing–perhaps it works for you on some juvenile level. Just be advised it does nothing to support your argument nor to undermine mine.

  • JGC

    Please provide the legal definition of the term “unavoidably unsafe’, as your post suggests it does not mean what you think it means.

    It’s actually closer to 3.7 billion dollars in compensation over 30 years, which went to a grand total of 5,581 plaintiffs.

    That’s the numerator, but to accurately gage risk we need a denominator too–how many billions of vaccinations were given over that 3 decade period?

    I don’t have a figure, but just during the 9 year period between 2006 and 2015 more than 2.8 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. We’re talking in the neighborhood of one compensatiable injury for every 1 million vaccinations given.

    It reality, if we assume that the vaccinations given over those nine years doesn’t represent a significant uptick in vaccinations given, we’re talking something less than 1 compensatiable injury for every 3 million vaccinations given.

    And further keep in mind that the NVICP operates as a no fault system: in the vast majority of cases where compensation is awarded (>90% according to the last metrics I reviewed) it is awarded for table injuries. Compensation for table injuries takes the form of a settlement, where neither the plaintiff demonstrating that nor the court finding that the injury being compensated for was actually caused by vaccines received.

  • JGC

    “You typically ask that knowing there [does not exist any such evidence]and that repeated requests for [studies we really, really believe might demonstrate this] from congressional hearings [cannot be performed because it would be unethical to do so].
    FTFY

  • JGC

    Simple enough: Offit was speaking about the number of antigens an immune system can handle at one time without becoming ‘overwhelmed’. Exposure to 10,000 antigens–the peptide and polysaccharide epitopes the immune system generates antibodies and generates antibodies against–wouldn’t be a problem.
    But vaccine formulations contain other components–adjuvants, solvent, etc.,–and not just antigens. If one were given 10,000 half-mL inoculations the sheer liquid volume (5 liters) would be problematic.
    But as Offit said he was speaking theoretically, and as it would theoretically be possible to divide 10,000 antigens up into a small number of multivalent vaccines such that you would be exposed to no more solvent etc. than the maximum exposure resulting from the currently approved schedule, I believe his statement was correct.

  • Cypher

    Why are you avoiding my question? To refresh your memory:

    I want you to explain what you mean by the following:

    “And it’s the large solvent volume, increased exposure to adjuvants, etc. that would be a problem-…..”

  • JGC

    That would be the study whose authors cautioned (bold for emphasis) “These findings warrant further investigation, but do not prove a causal role of antecedent infections or vaccinations in the pathoetiology of these conditions”, wouldn’t it?

  • JGC

    I’ve replied elsewhere, although I thought I’d stated the problem clearly in the original post.

  • Cypher

    Well, that took you some time.You have to agree that any so called “industry expert” that makes such a claim that any infant can withstand up to 10,000 vaccines without evidence to support it is an extremely dangerous individual. As I mentioned, its not up to you to correct or interpret his statement. It was a co-authored paper written in English which you denied even existed.

    And I’m STILL waiting on the absolute proof of this “theoretical” claim from you. If you don’t have it, there’s no shame in admitting it.

  • shay simmons

    Except that disease morbidity was not eliminated. How many children died each year from the measles and the chicken pox before the vaccines…and how many died each year afterwards?

    Your claim (and Cypher’s) ignores what happened with polio, as well.

  • JGC

    ‘You have to agree that any so called “industry expert” that makes such a claim that any infant can withstand up to 10,000 vaccines without evidence to support it is an extremely dangerous individual.”
    No, I wouldn’t agree–at least not unless that individual was also actively campaigning to change the CDC’s recommended schedule to reflect this claim.

  • Cypher

    Still waiting on proof.

  • JGC

    “There is no evidence that vaccination is creating more good than harm.”

    I’d say the eradication of smallpox caused more good than harm, Judith: by what rational argument did it not?

    “Whilst it may reduce infectious disease – many of which have a natural role in priming the immune system and preventing many other diseases such as cancer, asthma”

    Or, in the case of measles, rather than priming the immune system wiping out immune memory for a period of years after infection.

    ” The incidence of chronic disease is rising in every country that has a high vaccine schedule.”

    Which chronic diseases, and what evidence demonstrates a causal association between routine vaccination and increased risk of theses diseases? You do have something more than correlation to hang your position on, I hope.

  • JGC

    Judith, what do the initials “NP” in “NPAFP” mean?

  • JGC

    Impressive list of ingredients, Judith. If you had any evidence that any of these were ‘unhealthy’ (i.e., were toxic or otherwise harmful) at exposure levels achievable as the result of routine childhood vaccination you’d have the beginnings of an argument.
    As things stand, however…

  • JGC

    Again, Offit addressed the evidence that the immune system is capable of responding to 10,000 antigens at one time without becoming overwhelmed in the article you’ve pulled the quote from.

  • Cypher

    I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make now and its becoming quite amusing. :-)

    Another recap is in order:

    1. You were wrong about cleaner water and nutrition playing a major role in disease morbidity.

    2. You were wrong about the fact that Paul Offit claimed that any infant can withstand up to 10,0000 chemical injections at once.

    3. You cannot seem to prove the theory that any infant can withstand up to 10,0000 chemical injections at once.

    Proof should be in the form of double-blind studies and peer-reviewed evidence. Simple words and conjecture won’t fly here. Sorry.

  • JGC

    Cleaner water made a difference in reducing the incidence and mortality of some diseases–those that are waterborne, lie typhoid fever. Cleaner water actually ended up increasing the severity of polio when outbreaks occurred. it did not impact the incidence of airborne diseases like measles, pertussis, etc. And in no case was it seen to be capable of eradicating disease. I’ve yet to see any evidence that better nutrition impacted the incidence of infectious diseases significantly.
    Re: Offit, he was speaking of the immune system being theoretically able to deal with 10,000 vaccinations at one time without being overwhelmed, not 10,000 chemical injections.
    RE point 3, again: vaccines are not chemical injections (I’ll remind you they’re classified as biologics) and if you’re going to use a phrase like ‘prove a theory’ I have to consider you either do not know that by definition theories cannot be proven, or you do know but are willfully ignoring the fact.
    You’ve done a very good job keeping the conversation focused on defending the safety of routine vaccination, but I think it’s time we addressed the opposing claim that they are fundamentally unsafe.
    So to that end, I’m asking what in your personal opinion represents the strongest piece of evidence that the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination exceed the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to the infectious diseases they protect against.

  • Cypher

    I’m simply trying to understand your logic and point out where where you are wrong (which you still fail to admit). You’ve done a great job on speaking in general terms without producing a shred of evidence. You keep bringing the conversation back to Measles for some reason and I’ve already stated that benign childhood diseases didn’t magically go away and will not go away. If you’re claiming that it went down to 0, please show evidence it has been at 0 for the last 10-15 years.

    While you’re at it show me the death statistics for those pockets of Measles outbreaks over roughly the same period.

    Can you copy/paste the MMR II vaccine insert and show me which components are not chemicals?

  • JGC

    Which benign childhood disease do you believe won’t go away? IF you’re speaking of measles 1) it’s not a benign disease and 2) as measles only circulates in human hosts an aggressive program of isolation and vaccination could make it go away, the same way it made smallpox and rinderpest go away.

  • Cypher

    Cherry picking responses again I see. :-))

    “While you’re at it show me the death statistics for those pockets of Measles outbreaks over roughly the same period.”

    ADDENDUM: As I stated before, don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by including 3rd world fatality stats.

  • JGC

    Why would including statistics for deaths worldwide be an insult to anyone’s intelligence?

  • Cypher

    Oh, please. Did you really plan to include the stats from 3rd world countries where you could literally die from a bad hangnail? Is that the best you can do?

    I’m still waiting.

  • JGC

    I appended the case fatality rate for measles in the US from 1985 to 1992 to the previous post.

  • AutismDadd

    The old ethical bullshut. But its ethical to not do it and then ask for that very evidence

  • JGC

    I’m not asking for evidence that could only come out of unethical prospective double-blinded studies–the same data can be (and has been) obtained by means of retrospective studies.
    Your the one who’s trying to argue the reason you have nothing to offer in support of your position is that no one will heed your call for unethical studies.

  • AutismDadd

    They never mention MMR. They list them separately. Also its not mentioned how many vaccines were given per visit or how far apart visits were. Far too many variables to simply conclude all is well. Typical of vaccine studies that are smoke screens.

  • AutismDadd

    What rubbish. Typical pro-vac smoke screen.

  • AutismDadd

    Barfola. The same old redundant propaganda fro Pharma financed W.H.O.

  • Cypher

    Right. Data from the “reported cases”, yet unconfirmed. Yes, I’ve seen those claims many times on CDC’s website. It reminds me of the Swine Flu embarrassment.

    Even with those “reported” cases you’re further proving my point that chemical injections did not get rid of Measles and never will.

    Why do you think the rates are worse in 3rd world countries?

    From the previous post which I’m still waiting on a response for:

    “Can you copy/paste the MMR II vaccine insert and show me which components are not chemicals?”

    Sorry, but those tangents won’t work with me. You’re lucky you have me to keep you on track.

  • JGC

    “Even with those “reported” cases you’re further proving my point that chemical injections did not get rid of Measles and never will.”

    Since the measles virus has no host other than humans, vaccination programs could eradicate just as they have small pox.

    “Why do you think the rates are worse in 3rd world countries?”
    Which 3rd world country are you speaking of?
    Re: Package inserts, I’ think I’ve made my objection to the characterization of vaccinations as ‘chemical injections’ clear by this time. It’s as appropriate a description as characterizing ‘good nutrition’ as ‘chemical ingestion’.

  • JGC

    Why is your response always, always “That evidence doesn’t count, because CONSPIRACY THEORY!”?

  • JGC

    What would be your suggested design for an ethical prospective vaccinated versus unvaccinated study? Describe it in detail.

  • Cypher

    “Could” eradicate but has not. You implied that vaccines for the most part eradicated diseases but now you admit that Measles still exists. Which is it?

    Still waiting on that vaccine insert.

    For 3rd world countries, I’ll let you choose.

  • AutismDadd

    Why? Can’t REAL vaccine makers design something? Or are they just falling back on the same old like they have for decades?

  • AutismDadd

    Can you reword this nonsense and create a question worth responding too? If you can’t I fully understand… the supervisor might be watching…wink wink

  • JGC

    They can’t design one because it can’t be done ethically. If you accept the evidence attesting to vaccine safety, the study would unethically expose children to increased risk of serious infectious disease. If you instead had reason to believe vaccines were not safe, the study would unethically expose children to risk of vaccine injuries.

  • JGC

    Nowhere have I argued that vaccines have for the most part eradicated infectious diseases: I’ve consistently offered two examples where it has done so.

    Re measles and third world countries, see https://fas.org/irp/threat/752049.gif

    The primary contributor appears to be the lack of developed health care infrastructure (lack of epidemiologic surveillance, preventation (i.e., vaccination(, reliance on humanitarian organizations, etc.).

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. Only heard that a few hundred times as an EXCUSE for not doing safety studies. Many suggestions have been made about using those not already vaccinated by choice, but there’s usually silence after that, then another gurgling and purging of propaganda. Plus given current division over the issue, I’d predict thousands of parents would sign waivers to allow it to happen. The only ones holding back are vaccine proponents.

  • Cypher

    Thank you for the graph. Its actually quite useful. Now can you provide a correlation of countries of the most mal-nourished per-capita and disease fatality stats?

    You didn’t state or imply that vaccines had anything to do with disease eradication or mobility? Then what is your argument?

    Measles was declared eradicated in the year 2000. How funny is that?

    By the way, outbreaks are often reported among highly vaccinated school-age children, which begs the question “what is the purpose”?

    *STILL* waiting on that copy/paste of the vaccine insert.

    I’m not sure what you’re afraid of by copy/pasting the MMR vaccine insert ingredients. Its a simple request. Please show us that you know what you’re talking about.

    Since you’re constantly changing the subject to other diseases like Smallpox and Polio maybe you can explain the Bill Gates/India polio fiasco.

  • Ron Roy

    According to the info. Proponent gave me very few( none in my area ) children died of measles, chickenpox or polio before vaccines.

  • FallsAngel

    No vaccine for diarrhea? Ever heard of rotavirus vaccine? No, I guess not.

  • FallsAngel

    What “info” is that? Please repost for those of us who did not see it.

  • JGC

    ‘You didn’t state or imply that vaccines had anything to do with disease eradication or mobility?”

    Why do you consistently try to misrepresent my position, cypher?

    Measles was declared eradicated in the United States, as the result of an effective immunization programs.

    RE: “reported in highly vaccinated school children”, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Are you simply noting that when outbreaks occur, some vaccinated as well as unvaccinated children are seen to become infected?

    If you’re interested in the MMR package insert see http://www.who.int/immunization_standards/vaccine_quality/PQ_168_MMR_MSD_PI_July2008.pdf

    There hasw to my knowledge been no Bill Gates/India polio fiasco–perhaps I need to ask you as well as Judith if you understand what the initials “NP” stand for in “NPAFP”?

  • JGC

    Using those already unvaccinated by choice would be a retrospective study, not the prospective study you’re insisting be performed. Retrospective studies have been done at very large scales in multiple nations.

    “Plus given current division over the issue, I’d predict thousands of parents would sign waivers to allow it to happen.”

    You would sign a waiver allowing your unvaccinated children to participate in such a study, knowing there was an even chance they would be assigned to the study cohort that received vaccinations? Really?

  • Cypher

    Circular logic again. Take a look at this pro-vax chart that declared Measles eliminated, but went on to report higher cases. :-))

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1408696

    Sorry if I “misrepresent” what you’re saying. If you would be consistent, it would help.

    Maybe you missed my original request. I asked you to copy/paste the ingredients and tell me which are not chemicals. The request was in English.

    Again, can you provide a correlation of countries of the most mal-nourished per-capita and disease fatality stats?

    Can’t really move on to Polio until you stop avoiding questions.

  • shay simmons

    I never cease to be amazed at how willing you are to exhibit your dumbness in public.

    Think about what you just posted. Seriously.

  • Mike Stevens

    Well, as long as you are stricly consistent about nomenclature, I have no issue with you calling vaccines “chemical injections” .
    But I have to ask, how will people distinguish the particular chemical injections that are vaccines from every other type of injection given to humans or animals? And how will people know what you are referring to when you call everything that animals eat “chemical ingestions”?
    Won’t you start to look even more silly than you already do?

  • Mike Stevens

    “You implied that vaccines for the most part eradicated diseases but now you admit that Measles still exists. Which is it?”
    I saw him say that measles could be eradicated in the same way as smallpox and rinderpest before it. Hopefully polio will go soon too.

    Stop lying about what JGC said. Your efforts to detract from the fact you are badly losing this argument are noted.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Measles was declared eradicated in the year 2000. How funny is that?”

    Nope, it wasn’t.
    Here, this little quiz might help you:
    http://vaccine-safety-training.org/elements/articles/eradication-difference.html

  • Mike Stevens
  • Mike Stevens

    Cypher, your posts here are a great illustration of goal post shifting by a commenter who is constantly shown to be wrong.

  • I mean, think about that experiment:

    Doctor/Medical Researcher/Person in Charge of Research: So we’d like to do a study where your child has even/uneven odds of getting the schedule versus not and we’re not telling you which group your child is in. Just sign this, will you?

    Pro-vax parent: Hell, no! You’re not potentially leaving my child vulnerable to dangerous diseases and worse, not letting me know. What is wrong with you?

    Anti-vax parent: Hell, no. You’re not potentially exposing my child to disastrous vaccine injuries. What is wrong with you?

    Never mind the ethics – the logistics alone are rather tricky.

  • *And administration routes achievable by RCV.

  • Mike Stevens

    Measles has declined spectacularly since vaccination was introduced.
    No lies or furious handwaving on your part can avoid that fact.
    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*r54fbVo0iUEJ5zAN4ku6EA.png

    “the elimination of disease morbidity was due to cleaner water and plumbing”
    And I suppose the eradication of rinderpest (measles’ animal “sibling”) was because they taught cows to use flushing toilets and how to wash their hooves…

  • Judith

    The safety net that Congress created to protect children who suffer from vaccine injury is not working as intended, a law professor charges.

    The vaccine fund has adjudicated more than 14,000 petitions for vaccine injury since its beginning in 1986. For a new paper, Engstrom analyzed nearly three decades’ worth of data concerning the program’s operation.

    For example, Congress originally established a 240-day deadline for all adjudication decisions. But in reality, the average adjudication takes over five years. “This is years longer than similar claims resolved by court judgment or trial verdict within the traditional tort system,” Engstrom says.

    Perhaps as a result, the vaccine program has heavily relied on lawyers. Early on, some hoped that procedures would be straightforward and collaborative enough to make it unnecessary to hire counsel. But Engstrom discovered that petitioners need counsel—and often highly specialized legal help—to have any chance at successfully resolving their claims.Even when children are found to be entitled to compensation, governmental lawyers have sometimes hassled petitioners over relatively piddling amounts. For example, in one case, a dispute arose whether a 14-year-old girl with profound mental retardation was or was not entitled to a $40 pair of high-top tennis shoes.

    http://www.futurity.org/vaccines-children-compensation-955222/

  • Proponent

    No need to defend him, Dr. Paul Offit has addressed this many a time hisownself..

    “Question: A baby can handle as many as 10,000 vaccines safely during infancy. Do you still agree with that position?

    No, I think I probably understated it. I was asked the question, ‘How
    many different antigens can one handle in the first year of life?’ And
    so one can calculate that. You know the number of B and T cells that are released by the bone marrow, which is in the 10 to the ninth region, you know the number of epitopes, which is to say, distinct immunologic regions that are present on various antigens… and so you can calculate how many different epitopes one could theoretically respond to.

    If you add up actually all the immunologic components in vaccines,
    the total is about 155, 160, which is trivial, and so we make 10 to the
    ninth new B and T cells everyday, I think probably the number is
    probably closer to 100,000. And that would be per day, because we’re constantly making new B and T cells. I think, unfortunately, that that statement got interpreted by the media as saying that I think children should get 10,000 vaccines, obviously that’s not what I meant. I was just answering the question, ‘How many could they get?’… and I think, I stand by that statement.”

    — Paul Offit, MD, pediatrician on the The Human Experience Podcast | “Episode 20 – Dr. Paul Offit – Vaccines”

    … …

    Now, lemme guess.. some of you are going to read the above and come away with this..

    “OMG! Dr. Prophet said that babies can get 100,000 vaccines at once!”

    No.. just.. no. Don’t be so silly.

    See also..

    “Our advisor Paul A. Offit, MD, has addressed this concern about “immune system overload” before. In a kind of thought experiment he worked out in a 2002 Pediatrics article, he estimated that a child’s immune system could theoretically respond to the antigens in 10,000 or more vaccines at once. He made clear this was a theoretical position based solely on immune cell potential. (Giving 10,000 vaccines at once would be harmful in many ways: just the amount of water in that number of vaccines would cause death.)”

    (Source: History of Vaccines | “Video: Do Vaccines Overwhelm the Infant Immune System?” )

  • Proponent

    Judith: “I note Cypher is unable to respond to your question.”

    Correct, Judith!

    You finally got something right!

  • Proponent

    Wellllll.. it would appear that consulting with this Dr. Fata would be almost as problematic as consulting with your local convenience store owner about you and your loved ones’ health matters.

    … …

    And now, Ronald P. Roy will regale us with another of his fables about saving his town from the evils of the “MEDICAL MAFIA”..

    “Ron? You got a minute?”

    (*Ron turns to face his customer at the counter after having reorganized the display rack of gum*)

    ‘Of course, how can I help you?’

    “Ron, I.. I.. well, I got this.. “thing’? And I am not sure whether or not to go see a doctor about it?”

    ‘Absolutely not! Are you not aware that doctors only receive 10 minutes of training on the physiology of the human body? They use google like the rest of us.. only.. very badly.’

    “Well, what do I do, then?”

    ‘Simple.. let me sell you some Vitamin C supplements.. and you’ll be right as rain in a couple of days. And this week, it’s on special!’

  • Proponent

    Not worth engaging, Ronald P. Roy on this, Falls.

    He was shown to be wrong and simply refuses to accept it.

    Even in his posts/comments and in his own words he noted a number of deaths due to infectious diseases.

  • Proponent

    Point out the exact “awesome” in Judith’s post, will you, Cypher?

    Thanks in advance.

  • Kim Jensen

    Look, if you can’t do the research for yourselves, I’m done speaking with you people.

  • Proponent

    Cypher: “You get an email for every direct reply.”

    Hmmm.. what’s this?

    (*looks at Disqus settings to disable email notifications*)

    … …

    ‘Cause..

    You just know I want my inbox being inundated with stupid.

    Uh.. no, thanks.

  • FallsAngel

    K!

  • Proponent

    Stace325: “The only thing I hate more than Trolls…are…(thinking). Nope, Trolls top my list.”

    Really?

    I can think of a number of things that would top that as an entry.. war, famine.. and and..

  • Proponent

    Fire in the hole!

    Incoming wall of copypasta text from Lowell Hubbs in.. 3.. 2..

  • Proponent

    Well, if it’s on the internet.. it must be true.

  • Proponent

    Judith: “Thank you Cypher – you have forced Cypher and Mike
    Stevens into a corner – they cannot answer your question truthfully.”

    Good to know, Judith.. that you spend no time in checking the accuracy of your posts/comments and just flail away at the keyboard. Thanks!

  • AutismDadd

    Nope. Didn’t say anything as stupid as that. You and your ilk supply the guinea pigs and we supply the unvaccinated.

  • AutismDadd

    JGC aka Proponent aka Jonathon Buzzcut Ginger Boy Graham will simply harass you into leaving the forums. Don’t let them bully you. Fight back harder.

  • AutismDadd

    Ethically, like government allowing the sale of tobacco

  • Proponent

    Hey! I remember this nonsense, Judith?

    This is the third time that you’ve posted this tripe.

    And.. I am guessing.. that this will be the fourth time that you tuck tail and scurry away from answering the question that was posed to you at those other times..

    “Huh.

    But, I did respond, Judith..

    Judith: “When using cells with tumorigenic phenotypes or other characteristics that give rise to special concerns, more stringent limitation of residual DNA quantities might be needed to assure product safety.”

    Name the vaccines in current use that were derived from “cells with tumorigenic phenotypes”, Judith.

    But.. you didn’t.

    Funny that.”

    … …

    At least Judith recycles her waste! There’s that!

  • Proponent

    disqus_k3oycamN0W: 5. I make stuff up.. allllll the time.

  • shay simmons

    The only thing Stace hates more than trolls is thinking? I believe it.

  • shay simmons

    Ron Roy is referring to a website listing headstones — most of which do not show cause of death — as proof that no child in his town ever died of VPDs in the 1950s or 1960s. The man is just…words fail me at his utter lack of ability to reason.

  • Mary Richter

    and learn how to use common sense

  • Mary Richter

    I was born in 1951 and grew up on an island in NYC with a population of about 4500. There were 2 elementary schools there with attendance of approximately 900 children between them. From what I can remember everyone got all the childhood diseases and no one died from them. The first child I remember dying was in 1960, a 5 year old boy who had leukemia. Everyone else was healthy. My husband was born in 1958 and contracted german measles when he was 6 months old and his mother said he almost died. This was a time when commercial formula was pushed as being better for babies than mother’s milk and that’s what she gave him so he did not get the benefits of her antibodies.

  • AutismDadd

    Yet, if you accept the vaccines, you assume the risks….your “ethics” at work.

  • Mary Richter

    polio has since been redefined.

  • shay simmons

    Citation needed.

  • shay simmons

    Have you followed up on all 900 of your classmates?

  • AutismDadd

    And so we never find out and history repeats itself.

  • AutismDadd

    We object to the NVICP and the other 18 programs in the world.

  • AutismDadd

    Didn’t Mike Stevens correct someone and say Offit did say 10,000 vaccines?

  • AutismDadd

    No problemo?

  • AutismDadd

    So Offit ate his words and did the deflection thing he has a patent for.

  • AutismDadd

    Propaganda 101.

  • AutismDadd

    Whose evidence would that be?

  • AutismDadd

    He demonstrated it? Sounds unethical.

  • FallsAngel

    Breast feeding would not have made a difference for your husband.
    http://www.immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/nursing-mother-who-has-been-immunized-mmr-do-i

    You have no idea of the medical history of these 900 kids.

  • We all know who is actually on a juvenile level and it is not me. You have never been able to support your pro-vax argument on any level, so just face it. Humanity and those who have woken up are NOT that stupid, and nor are they following the low level of stupidity that you continually reply with. The game is over for you and your shillary pushed vaccine injury denial. I have not had a vaccine in over 47 years. Millions of adults were never re-vaccinated since childhood; where are the epidemics?

    I want to give you a short version of the vaccine pushing lies that are told. Tomorrow when you get out of bed, see if you can actually . . . WAKE UP???

    “WE HAVE REFINED VACCINES SO THERE IS LESS ANTIGENS IN THEM THAN IN 1960 WHEN THEY RECEIVED 5 VACCINES AND FEW BOOSTERS” What a load of bullshit, and really not s single vaccine shill can explain that and how almost 30 vaccine does by the age of 2 and 49 doses by the age of 6, and approximately 68 does by the age of 18, equals less vaccine antigens than ever before. Even if that were true, and it is NOT … what about the F…n load of toxicity and known vaccine contamination; and not one word about the vaccines with the antigen grown on aborted fetal cells. All you have to do is go to the vaccine ingredient list and the package inserts to see the load of toxicity that exists in vaccine. Food proteins, aluminum adjuvants, inactivated vaccines mixed with attenuated live vaccines. WAKE THE DAMNED HELL UP!!!! YOU ARE BEING CONNED and filled with nothing but FALSE VACCINE PROPAGANDA. And then they again in their mindless lack of education continue to go on still bashing Dr Andrew Wakefield, and even though a long list of studies have supported and even replicated the finding in that 1998 Lancet study. It is all nothing but misinformation and again more PRO-VAX . . .BULLSHIT!!! The stupidity is just endless.

    Vaccine advice: Hidden camera investigation (CBC Marketplace)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SdADq9E1U&feature=youtu.be

  • No, I am addressing your repeat of the same old obvious cookie cutter vaccine shillary . . .stupidity.

  • That study was already shot down by one of their own, and known as William Thompson, the whistle blower. DeStenfano was as well involved in and with the meeting where they put all the real study information in a garbage can at the CDC. Wow, and that was the best you could do

    How about if I do one better by as well blowing all of your believed large scale epidemiological studies, directly in the dirt? You know, the same studies that the federal vaccine court has used to as well deny nearly 10,000 files cases and their families, any just compensation at all, and for the vaccine injuries of their children. The below link contains a direct analysis of those studies; be sure you actually read it. And by the way I have more direct studies than you can handle, to counter anything you come up with. So why have you obviously not gone to Pubmed and done any independent research?

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    And, what did they study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them being independent and nor unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

  • Here is a good source for it. I know that you love to cling to your deliberate ignorance, Proponent; but perhaps you should actually wake up to historical reality.

    Lypo-Spheric™ Vitamin C
    https://www.livonlabs.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/liposome-encapsulated/lypo-spheric-vitamin-c.html

    J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
    The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.
    Gorton HC, Jarvis K.

    Abstract
    BACKGROUND:
    An ever increasing demand to evaluate the effect of dietary supplements on specific health conditions by use of a “significant scientific” standard has prompted the publication of this study.
    OBJECTIVE:
    To study the effect of megadose Vitamin C in preventing and relieving cold and flu symptoms in a test group compared with a control group.
    DESIGN:
    Prospective, controlled study of students in a technical training facility.
    SUBJECTS:
    A total of 463 students ranging in age from 18 to 32 years made up the control group. A total of 252 students ranging in age from 18 to 30 years made up the experimental or test group.
    METHOD:
    Investigators tracked the number of reports of cold and flu symptoms among the 1991 test population of the facility compared with the reports of like symptoms among the 1990 control population. Those in the control population reporting symptoms were treated with pain relievers and decongestants, whereas those in the test population reporting symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily thereafter. Those not reporting symptoms in the test group were also administered 1000-mg doses 3 times daily.
    RESULTS:
    Overall, reported flu and cold symptoms in the test group decreased 85% compared with the control group after the administration of megadose Vitamin C.
    CONCLUSION:
    Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10543583

    Klenner/Jungeblut/Kalokerinos. The vitamin C cure for diseases, SIDS, and falsely accused shaken baby syndrome, after vaccines.

    High doses of vitamin C, and better yet intravenous or encapsulated vitamin C cured polio during the past and historical experience with polio. You CAN cure polio.

    Vitamin C and Polio
    The Forgotten Research of Claus W. Jungeblut, M.D.
    http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v09n16.shtml

    Was the cure for Polio buried to profit from dangerous Rockefeller vaccines?
    http://newstarget.com/2016-10-05-was-the-cure-for-polio-buried-to-profit-from-dangerous-rockefeller-vaccines.html

    J Exp Med. 1939 Aug 31; 70(3): 315–332.
    PMCID: PMC2133810
    A FURTHER CONTRIBUTION TO VITAMIN C THERAPY IN EXPERIMENTAL POLIOMYELITIS
    Claus W. Jungeblut
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2133810/

    A FURTHER CONTRIBUTION TO VITAMIN C THERAPY IN
    EXPERIMENTAL POLIOMYELITIS* (full study)
    BY CLAUS W, JUNGEBLUT, M.D.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2133810/pdf/315.pdf

    High-dose Intravenous Vitamin C as a Successful Treatment of Viral Infections
    https://riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/

    POLIO CURE, 1949

    The cure of polio was published by Fred Klenner, M.D. in a peer reviewed medical journal in 1949. (click here for paper). There has never been an article describing the use of massive doses of vitamin C in the doses prescribed by Klenner which has denied this cure. I suppose it was such a part of the medical religion that polio could not be cured that many ignored this cure. But I am also sure that there were some familiar with these treatments that knew that massive doses of ascorbate worked that figured that ignoring this cure would just paralyze a few children but that if this cure was widely know it would be a tremendous loss to the drug industry and most importantly, the loss of their jobs.

    Read more:
    http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/polioep.htm

    The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C
    Fred R. Klenner, M.D., Reidsville, North Carolina
    http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/polio.htm

    An historical compendium of 20th-Century medical & scientific literature attesting to the efficacy of Ascorbate
    (Ascorbic Acid, Cevitamic Acid, Sodium Ascorbate etc. a.k.a. “Vitamin C”) in the treatment and prevention of human and animal illnesses and diseases.
    http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/

    Massive Doses of Vitamin C and the Virus Diseases
    Fred R. Klenner, M.D., Reidsville, North Carolina
    http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/195x/klenner-fr-southern_med_surg-1951-v103-n4-p101.htm

    VITAMIN C HAS BEEN KNOWN TO FIGHT 30 MAJOR DISEASES … FOR OVER 50 YEARS
    http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v02n02.shtml

    HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT: The Pioneering Work of
    FREDERICK ROBERT KLENNER, M.D.
    http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerbio.html

    The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C
    Fred R. Klenner, M.D., Reidsville, North Carolina
    http://www.nutri.com/49/

    Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, August 7, 2013
    Vitamin C and Polio – The Forgotten Research of Claus W. Jungeblut, M.D.
    http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v09n16.shtml

    Vitamin C and polio
    http://www.sott.net/article/264766-Vitamin-C-and-polio

    Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins
    by Dr. Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD
    https://the-moneychanger.com/articles/curing_the_incurable

    The Origin of the 42-Year Stonewall of Vitamin C
    https://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/landwehr-r-j_orthomol_med-1991-v6-n2-p99.htm
    http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n02-p099.pdf

    Vitamin C May Be A Life-Saver
    Mega-doses Can Counter Avian Flu, Hepatitis &
    Herpes, And Control Advance Of AIDS
    http://www.rense.com/general64/co.htm

    ———

    Tissue Scurvy Misdiagnosed as Shaken Baby Syndrome Homicide
    Michael D. Innis, Tissue Scurvy Misdiagnosed as Shaken Baby Syndrome Homicide, Clinical Medicine Research. Vol. 3, No. 1, 2014, pp. 6-8. doi: 10.11648/j.cmr.20140301.12

    Abstract
    “Tissue Scurvy” is an autoimmune disorder in which there is an abundance of Vitamin C in the body(unlike the Seafarer Scurvy of yesteryear) but it is inhibited from entering the tissue cells to perform its functions of maintaining the integrity of the blood vessels and skeletal tissue and partaking in several enzymatic reactions because of the lack of insulin which is essential for the transfer of Vitamin C into the cell. The result is the development of fractures, hemorrhages and other lesions of Scurvy. Here it is shown a child alleged to have been murdered by being shaken to death was found to have hyperglycemia, implying insulin deficiency and concomitant Tissue Scurvy. It is concluded that the diagnosis Shaken Baby Syndrome, and all examples of unexplained fractures, bruises, retinal and subdural hemorrhages with encephalopathy – the so-called “TRIAD” – are in fact an autoimmune disorder following antigenic stimulation in a genetically susceptible child. Vaccines administered within 4 weeks of the onset of symptoms are the most common cause. The Shaken Baby Syndrome is a fabricated diagnosis and has no place in medical jurisprudence.

    http://www.sciencepublishinggroup.com/journal/paperinfo.aspx?journalid=151&doi=10.11648/j.cmr.20140301.12

    Tissue Scurvy Misdiagnosed as Shaken Baby Syndrome Homicide

    Full text: Excerpts

    2. Case History

    The child was born on the 9th May 2011 by normal
    vaginal delivery following a 41 week gestation period. Her
    Apgar scores were 9 at 1 minute and 10 at 5 minutes and
    she weighed 3.3kg. She was given an injection of Vitamin
    K.

    She was seen by the Health Visitor on 20th May 2011and
    was found to have an infected finger which healed by the
    next visit on 31st May 2011. Her weight was 3310 gm
    On 3rd June 2011 she had an episode of difficulty in
    breathing and was examined in Accident and Emergency
    and the mother given advice but no form of medicinal
    therapy was administered. She received the first primary
    immunization of childhood on 8th July 2011.

    In January 2012 she developed an ear infection and on
    26th March 2012 a bruise was noticed on the tip of the
    pinna of one ear. No Laboratory Investigations were done.
    She was vaccinated with the MMR, Hib and
    Meningococcal C vaccines on the 23rd May 2012 and a
    week later, on 1st June 2012, she was taken to the Boston
    Pilgrim Hospital where a Consultant Pediatrician found a
    5cm X 5cm boggy bruise on her head, subconjunctival
    hemorrhages in the left eye and what was thought to be a
    “human bite mark” on the posterior aspect of the left leg.
    No neurological lesions were seen and there were no retinal
    hemorrhages.

    Social workers and Police were informed and after a
    short stay in the home of the grandparents she was returned
    to her family and visited by her Health Visitor on the 26th
    July 2012 who found no concerns. There is no record of
    any coagulation studies having been done inspite of the fact
    that a cephalo-hematoma (boggy swelling on the head) is a
    “herald lesion” anticipating the onset of a
    catastrophichemorrhagic disaster [4].

    3. Post-Mortem Examination
    The essential lesions were swelling of the brain, retinal
    hemorrhages and detachment in both eyes. No external
    injuries were found

    The brain and spinal cord was said to show evidence of
    old and recent injury. The old injury was represented by the
    presence of a subdural hematoma over the brain and spinal
    cord of several weeks to months’ duration and bilateral
    contusions in the parasagittal region of the posterior frontal
    lobe with some histological appearances consistent with
    several days to weeks’ duration.

    The recent head injury, it was claimed, was demonstrated
    by the presence of a recent hematoma over the brain and
    spinal cord with localized axonal injury to the cortico-spinal
    tracts of medulla and axonal injury to the spinal nerve roots.
    There was generalized ischemia in the brain involving
    cortex white matter, deep grey matter, cerebellum,
    hypocampus and spinal cord.

    The cause of death was attributed to “Shaken Baby
    Syndrome”. The care giver was arrested, charged with
    murder, tried, convicted and imprisoned.

    4. Discussion
    Both Dr Archie Kalokerinos [6] and Professor Alan
    Clemetson [7] realized many years ago that what doctors
    were calling Shaken Baby Syndrome was in fact a
    manifestation of Infantile Scurvy. As stated above Dr
    Kalokerinos records his court encounter with a prosecutor
    at the trial of a mother accused of murder who claimed
    “Scurvy does not exist anymore” to which he replied. “yes
    it does but now you call it Shaken Baby Syndrome”.
    Relevant to the child’s illness on June 2nd 2012is the fact
    that she was vaccinated with the MMR, Hib and
    Meningococcal C vaccines on the 23rd May 2012and a
    week later, on 1st June 2012 she was taken to the Boston
    Pilgrim Hospital where a Consultant Pediatrician found a
    5cm X 5cm boggy bruise on her head, subconjunctival
    hemorrhages in the left eye and what was thought to be a
    human bite mark on the posterior aspect of left leg.
    Coagulation studies were done and showed APTT
    39.6.seconds, Prothrombin Time 15.0 seconds and Platelet
    count 697 x 109/L.

    These results are decidedly abnormal
    when compared with the Normal ranges of the Children’s
    Hospital at Great Ormond Street and they indicate the child
    has a Coagulation Disorder which would explain the
    hemorrhages and the “human bite”.

    Liver Function Test results, which are invariably abnormal
    in this condition were not done or if done have not been sent
    to me. With regard to treatment an immediate IM injection of
    Vitamin K and an IV injection of Vitamin C would have
    possibly reversed the process when the child presented at the
    Princess of Wales Hospital but it appears no such treatment
    was given in spite of the fact that the coagulation studies
    clearly indicated the need for such action.

    The observation of two hematomas of different ages at
    the post-mortem can be explained by the fact that on March
    26th2012 a bruise was noticed on the tip of the pinna of one
    ear. This lesion is often the result of a nutritional deficiency
    of Vitamin C and it is highly probable that the earlier
    hematoma was another manifestation of the same process –
    Tissue Scurvy. This would also explain the radiological
    findings. No Laboratory Investigations were done when the
    bruise was noticed which is very unusual and an
    opportunity to treat the disorder was missed.
    The suggestion that “the most likely explanation of the
    child’s presentation is likely to have involved shaking” is a
    view which has been debunked. Nowhere in the enormous
    amount of literature on the subject of the Shaken Baby
    Syndrome [8-18] have the authors explained how shaking
    an infant can raise the level of the blood sugar or cause
    glucose to appear in the urine

    These are not changes produced by shaking the child,
    they are proved to be the result of an Autoimmune Reaction
    following vaccination of a genetically susceptible child.
    The results of tests for Liver Function have not been
    provided in the material sent to me. Truth withheld is
    Justice denied. These results will undoubtedly be abnormal
    because the Prothrombin Time of 15 seconds is outside the
    normal upper limit of 14.1 reported by Great Ormond
    Street Hospital. An APTT of 39.6 seconds is also evidence
    of a defective coagulation mechanism accounting for all the
    child’s problems.

    5. Conclusion
    The accusation of Shaken Baby Syndrome is a misdiagnosis. The evidence proves an Autoimmune Reaction to vaccines administered on 23rd May 2012 was the cause of death. The diagnosis Shaken Baby Syndrome was suggested by a neurosurgeon without the slightest scientific evidence to support it and an innocent carer is in prison accused of Murder.

    The remedy lies in educating doctors to recognize Tissue Scurvy

    http://article.sciencepublishinggroup.com/pdf/10.11648.j.cmr.20140301.12.pdf

    Clinical Medicine Research
    Vol. 3, No. 1, 2014, pp. 6-8. doi: 10.11648/j.cmr.20140301.12

    Tissue scurvy misdiagnosed as shaken baby syndrome
    homicide – Michael D. Innis, Retired Haematologist Princess Alexandra Hospital Brisbane Australia

    Abstract: “Tissue Scurvy” is an autoimmune disorder in which there is an abundance of Vitamin C in the body(unlike the Seafarer Scurvy of yesteryear) but it is inhibited from entering the tissue cells to perform its functions of maintaining the integrity of the blood vessels and skeletal tissue and partaking in several enzymatic reactions because of the lack of insulin which is essential for the transfer of Vitamin C into the cell. The result is the development of fractures, hemorrhages and other lesions of Scurvy. Here it is shown a child alleged to have been murdered by being shaken to death was found to have hyperglycemia, implying insulin deficiency and concomitant Tissue Scurvy. It is concluded that the diagnosis Shaken Baby Syndrome, and all examples of unexplained fractures, bruises, retinal and subdural hemorrhages with encephalopathy – the so-called “TRIAD” – are in fact an autoimmune disorder following antigenic stimulation in a genetically susceptible child. Vaccines administered within 4 weeks of the onset of symptoms are the most common cause. The Shaken Baby Syndrome is a fabricated diagnosis and has no place in medical jurisprudence.

    http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Tissue-scurvy-misdiagnosed-as-shaken-baby-syndrome-Michael-Innis-2014.pdf

    Journal source:
    http://www.sciencepublishinggroup.com/journal/paperinfo.aspx?journalid=151&doi=10.11648/j.cmr.20140301.12

    Shaken Baby Syndrome Imprisonment by Misdiagnosis
    Jeffrey Dach MD (Referenced as well to other good articles and studies)
    http://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/06/shaken-baby-syndrome-imprisonment-by-misdiagnosis/

    Vaccines, Apparent Life-Threatening Events,
    Barlow’s Disease, and Questions about
    “Shaken Baby Syndrome” Michael D. Innis
    http://www.jpands.org/vol11no1/innis.pdf

    Every Second Child Paperback – September, 1981
    by Archie Kalokerinos (Author)
    http://www.amazon.com/Every-Second-Child-Archie-Kalokerinos/dp/0879832509

    AN INTERVIEW WITH DR. ARCHIE KALOKERINOS MD
    http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/an-interview-with-dr-archie-kalokerinos-md/

    The Answer to Crib Death
    “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome” (SIDS)
    Joseph G. Hattersley 1
    http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hattersley-jg-j_orthomol_med-1993-v8-n4-p229.htm

    Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS): Major Causes are Known but Ignored
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/sudden-infant-death-syndrome-sids-major-causes-are-known-but-ignored/

    Acta Paediatr. 2009 Nov; 98(11): 1768–1775.
    doi: 10.1111/j.1651-2227.2009.01476.x
    PMCID: PMC2773533
    Cholinergic and oxidative stress mechanisms in sudden infant death syndrome

    Lower AChE levels and higher combined levels of iron and vitamin C in the first 6 months of life may augment cholinergic and oxidative stress effect, particularly at the age when SIDS is most prevalent. This may contribute to risk of ALTE and SIDS/SUDI events during infancy.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2773533/

    Eradicate Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) Now!
    http://www.healthy-again.net/sids.htm

    Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and The Vitamin C Connection

    In 1774, it was discovered that sudden infant death syndrome, which is closely linked to acute infantile scurvy, is preventable in nearly all cases. Dr. James Lind, a Scottish physician of the British Navy, conducted experiments concluding that citrus fruits cured scurvy. He wrote the following about scurvy (vitaminC deficiency):

    “Persons that appear to be but slightly scorbutic are apt to be suddenly and unexpectedly seized with some of its worst symptoms. Their dropping down dead upon an exertion of their strength or change of air is not easily foretold.”

    The resemblance between these symptoms and S.I.D.S. is not merely coincidental. While the name, sudden infant death syndrome is relatively new; this identifiable pattern of sudden death has been around for a long time, and the methods of preventing it were known centuries ago.

    Dr. Archie Kalokerinos volunteered to undertake the mission of reducing the rate of S.I.D.S. amongst aboriginal people in the opal mining region of Australia. At the time, approximately 50% of all aboriginal infants died of sudden infant death syndrome. He found that almost all of them were terribly deficient in vitamin C, so he provided them with supplementation. None of the infants died from S.I.D.S following the supplementation.

    Read more:
    http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/161-sudden-infant-death-syndrome-and-the-vitamin-c-connection.html

    Published: March 20, 2015
    Shaken science
    A disputed diagnosis imprisons parents
    Prosecutors build murder cases on disputed Shaken Baby Syndrome diagnosis
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/shaken-baby-syndrome/

    And how many falsely accused parents and caregivers, do we yet need to get out of prisons?

    March 23, 2015
    When babies die, a disputed diagnosis sends parents to prison for abuse

    For decades, when a child appeared in an emergency room with certain symptoms, including bleeding behind the eyes and bleeding around the brain, many doctors assumed violent shaking to be the cause. But in recent years, the Shaken Baby Syndrome diagnosis has come under intense scrutiny, and so have many of the resulting prosecutions and convictions. Special correspondent Jackie Judd reports.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/babies-die-disputed-diagnosis-sends-parents-prison-abuse/

    Shaking: “A False and Flawed Premise” (Lots of info here)
    http://onsbs.com/2015/02/09/shaking-a-false-and-flawed-premise/

    Child Abuse or Rickets?
    A Special Interview with Dr. David Ayoub
    By Dr. Joseph Mercola
    http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Child-Abuse-or-Rickets-Interview-David-Ayoub.pdf

    New Film Exposes Shaken Baby Syndrome Myth – Opponents Want to Silence it at Film Festivals
    http://medicalkidnap.com/2015/03/11/new-film-exposes-shaken-baby-syndrome-myth-opponents-want-to-silence-it-at-film-festivals/

    THE SYNDROME
    a feature investigative documentary
    http://thesyndromefilm.com/

    May 28, 2015
    Mainstream Media Finally Exposing Shaken Baby Syndrome as False Diagnosis – How Many Innocent Parents Have Suffered?
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/mainstream-media-finally-exposing-shaken-baby-syndrome-as-false-diagnosis-how-many-innocent-parents-have-suffered/

    Is Shaken Baby Syndrome Often Misdiagnosed and Caused by Vaccine-Induced Rickets? http://medicalkidnap.com/2015/01/06/is-shaken-baby-syndrome-often-misdiagnosed-and-caused-by-vaccine-induced-rickets/

    Many Experts Have Discredited Shaken Baby Syndrome. So Why Is Maria Mendez Still in Prison?
    http://www.laweekly.com/news/many-experts-have-discredited-shaken-baby-syndrome-so-why-is-maria-mendez-still-in-prison-4137146

    At least half of all parents tried over shaken baby syndrome have been wrongly convicted, expert warns
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1382290/At-half-parents-tried-shaken-baby-syndrome-wrongly-convicted-expert-warns.html

    New Study Shows US Prosecution “Hot Spots” of Parents Gaoled for Battered Babies They Did Not Batter Shake or Injure: New Paper “Autoimmune TissueScurvy Misdiagnosed as Child Abuse”
    https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/new-study-shows-us-prosecution-hot-spots-of-parents-gaoled-for-battered-babies-they-did-not-batter-shake-or-injure-new-paper-autoimmune-tissue-scurvy-misdiagnosed-as-child-abuse/

    Conversations With Dr. A. Norman Guthkelch
    Dr. Norman Guthkelch, October 2012

    Retired pediatric neurosurgeon Dr. A. Norman Guthkelch was the first person to propose in print, in the British Medical Journal in 1971, that shaking an infant could cause subdural hematoma. He is now trying to straighten out what he considers a “horrifying” misinterpretation of his work in court.

    Read more:
    http://onsbs.com/2014/08/20/conversations-with-dr-a-norman-guthkelch/

    The evidence base for shaken baby syndrome
    We need to question the diagnostic criteria
    J F Geddes, retired (formerly reader in clinical neuropathology, Queen Mary, University of London)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC381308/

    Shaken Baby Syndrome:

    Vaccine Cover Up
    That Can Land You in Jail
    Ground Breaking Information You Need
    To Keep Your Family Safe!

    http://drrimatruthreports.com/sbs_webinar.html

  • More sick denial, it is what you do best. Vaccines are destroying the minds, bodies, and the health of infants and children, and that now on a massive scale. When you get out of bed tomorrow, see if you can actually, wake up? Better yet, go take the entire childhood vaccine schedule yourself and all in one day; you should know that Paul Offit has stated that children can safely tolerate 10,000 vaccines in a single day; so prove it and do it publically and recorded on video. That said Offit statement was made in the October 2005 issue of CHOP magazine. Post that video right here on vactruth.

  • Proponent

    “Vitamin C may cause abdominal cramps or pain, chest pain, dental
    erosion, dizziness, diarrhea, faintness, fatigue, flushing, gut blockage, headache, heartburn, increased risk of lung cancer, increased risk of Parkinson’s disease, inflamed esophagus, injection site discomfort, nausea, red blood cell complications, skin tingling or irritation, slowing of endurance training, thickening of blood vessels close to the heart, urinary complications, and vomiting.

    High doses of vitamin C have been associated with multiple adverse
    effects. These include blood clotting, death (heart-related), kidney
    stones, pro-oxidant effects, problems with the digestive system, and red blood cell destruction. In cases of toxicity due to massive ingestions of vitamin C, forced fluids, and diuresis may be beneficial.

    Use cautiously in chronic, large doses. Healthy adults who take
    chronic large doses of vitamin C may experience low blood levels of
    vitamin C when they stop taking the high doses and resume normal intake.

    Vitamin C in high doses appears to interfere with the blood-thinning
    effects of anticoagulants such as warfarin. Caution is advised in people with bleeding disorders or those taking drugs that affect bleeding. Dosing adjustments may be necessary.

    Vitamin C may affect blood sugar levels. Caution is advised in people
    with diabetes or hypoglycemia, and in those taking drugs, herbs, or
    supplements that affect blood sugar. Blood glucose levels may need to be monitored by a qualified healthcare professional, including a pharmacist. Medication adjustments may be necessary.

    Vitamin C may increase blood pressure. Caution is advised in people with high blood pressure.

    Use cautiously in people with cancer (e.g. lung), cataracts,
    glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency, anemia and related
    conditions, disorders of the gut, kidney stones, or sickle cell disease.

    Use cautiously in people after angioplasty and in pregnant women at risk of high blood pressure during pregnancy.

    Use cautiously in greater than recommended doses in breastfeeding women.

    Use cautiously in people taking antibiotics, anticancer agents, HIV
    medications, barbiturates, estrogens, fluphenazine, or iron supplements.

    Use injected vitamin C cautiously, especially in high doses, as it may lead to kidney function problems.

    Use vitamin C tablets cautiously, as dental erosion may occur from chewing vitamin C tablets often.

    Avoid in people with known allergy or sensitivity to any ingredients in Vitamin C products.

    Avoid high doses of vitamin C in people with conditions aggravated by increased acid, such as advanced liver disease, gout, a disease where kidneys fail to remove extra acid from the body, or a disease with early breakdown of red blood cells.

    Avoid high doses of vitamin C in people with kidney failure or in those taking agents that may damage the kidneys.”

    (Source: Mayo Clinic | “Side Effects and Warnings” )

  • Proponent

    Good news, Howell Lubbs! I have two sources where Dr. Paul Offit talks about this!

    “If you add up actually all the immunologic components in vaccines, the total is about 155, 160, which is trivial, and so we make 10 to the ninth new B and T cells everyday, I think probably the number is probably closer to 100,000. And that would be per day, because we’re constantly making new B and T cells. I think, unfortunately, that that statement got interpreted by the media as saying that I think children should get 10,000 vaccines, obviously that’s not what I meant. I was just answering the question, ‘How many could they get?’… and I think, I stand by that statement”

    — Paul Offit, MD, pediatrician on the The Human Experience Podcast | “Episode 20 – Dr. Paul Offit – Vaccines”

    And..

    “Our advisor Paul A. Offit, MD, has addressed this concern about “immune system overload” before. In a kind of thought experiment he worked out in a 2002 Pediatrics article, he estimated that a child’s immune system could theoretically respond to the antigens in 10,000 or more vaccines at once. He made clear this was a theoretical position based solely on immune cell potential. (Giving 10,000 vaccines at once would be harmful in many ways: just the amount of water in that number of vaccines would cause death.)”

    History of Vaccines | “Video: Do Vaccines Overwhelm the Infant Immune System?”

    … …

    Now you know!

  • Proponent

    William Posey?

    You mean.. Florida congressman William Posey?

    You mean.. Florida congressman William Posey that received donations from a few notorious anti-vax groups to give a speech to an empty chamber?

    That.. Florida congressman William Posey?

    Yeah.. what a guy.. had the documents and didn’t release them.

    Until and thankfully, through the efforts of Matt Carey and Dorit Reiss they were made available for everyone to download and view for themselves.

    And it ended up being a case of.. “There’s no whistle to blow”.

    Next?

  • Proponent

    That’s all incorrect, sorry.

    Please try again, Howell Lubbs.

  • Kim Jensen

    I pay no mind to them. They are nothing but poison pushers to me.

  • Stace325

    The conversation was about internet agents of deception, in particular Trolls. You may want to consider taking a refresher course in reading comprehension.

  • Stace325

    Maybe you should have read the comment I was responding to before jumping on someone else’s wagon. It is you that cannot think.

  • disqus_k3oycamN0W

    Choked on the truth, provaxx shill? and upvoted yourself with another account from Gorski website, kfunk. Do not forget to invite other shills from next cubicle to upvote.

  • Ron Roy

    (*Ron turns to face his customer at the counter after having reorganized the display rack of gum*) Nope I didn’t sell guns or have a gun rack.

    “Ron, I.. I.. well, I got this.. ‘thing’? And I wnr to see to go see a doctor about it and he didn’t have a clue. So I said ” I don’t know either jsut do a seach online abd see what you can find.”

    ”Absolutely not! Are you not aware that doctors only receive 10 minutes
    of training on the physiology of the human body? They use google like
    the rest of us.. only.. very badly.”
    Never said that in my life what I did and do say is that ( at that time )doctors had a two hour course on nutrition they were not obligated to take. They’ve now brought that up to a six hour ELECTIVE course.

    Never sold vitamin mineral supplements I sent them to the local pharmacy.
    You knowledge of what I did or said is as great as your knowledge of vaccines. Which by the way amounts to 0.

  • Ron Roy

    Mayo Clinic LOL As if they would ever tell the truth concerning something that won’t pot a buck in their pocket. lol
    Vitamin C recommended to LOWER blood pressure:Get enough vitamin C, D

    High doses of vitamin C may help reduce high blood pressure, report scientists from Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.
    Vitamin C may act as a diuretic, removing excess fluid from your body.
    This may help reduce the pressure on your blood vessel walls.

    Vitamin D is also essential to your overall health. According to a review article published in the Indian Journal of Medical Research,
    vitamin D deficiency may raise your risk of hypertension. It’s possible
    that taking vitamin D supplements might help lower your blood pressure.
    Shall i go on?

  • Ron Roy

    1) Saint Anne Cemetery
    2) Saint Kieran Cemetery
    3) Calvary Cemetery
    4) Mount Calvaire Cemetery
    Proponent gave me links to these local cemeteries and the cause of death is listed on the same page as the picture of the tombstone. I’ve gone through over 800 so far no record of anyone dying of childhood diseases. These cemeteries date back to the late 1800s. I’m still looking for all these deaths do to epidemics.

  • JGC

    “best. Vaccines are destroying the minds, bodies, and the health of infants and children, and that now on a massive scale”

    Then why is there no actual evidence that is the case, but only collections of anecdotal accounts?

    ” Better yet, go take the entire childhood vaccine schedule yourself and all in one day”
    But children aren’t given the entire schedule in one day, Lowell, so doing this wouldn’t yield any information regarding the safety of the routine childhood vaccination regardless of what Offit may or may not have said.

  • JGC

    No, the DeStefano study was not shot down at all. No data was destroyed, no statistically significant associations were omitted from the report. Thompson himself has stated “I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.”
    All the documents given to Posey by Dr. Thompson have been made available online via FOIA requests–I can hunt up the URL if you care to see for yourself.

  • JGC

    I wouldn’t have to continually repost the equivalent of boiler-plate responses if those opposed to routine vaccination would stop offering arguments that constitute PRATTS.

  • JGC

    “What a load of bullshit, and really not s single vaccine shill can explain that and how almost 30 vaccine does by the age of 2 and 49 doses by the age of 6, and approximately 68 does by the age of 18, equals less vaccine antigens than ever before.”

    I can: we replaced whole cell vaccines with acellular vaccines, and with the eradication smallpox have been able to remove smallpox vaccination from the schedule (the smallpox vaccine alone contained more than 200 antigens). The number of antigens in the 7 vaccines on the schedule in the 1980’s numbered in the thousands, while the number of antigens a child will be exposed to over the course of the entire schedule today is 315. For example, development of the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine introduced in 1986 to replace vaccines using multiple blood-derived surface protein antigens contains a single antigen.

  • JGC

    The evidence that exists: while people are certainly entitled to their own opinion, evidence is held in common.

  • JGC

    Words have meaning, especially as used in our legal systems.

  • JGC

    “Non-polio”, as in acute flacid paralysis caused by something other than poliovirus.

  • JGC

    That would have been me, where he also pointed out that Offit was speaking of theoretical exposure.

  • JGC

    Why? Do you believe it should be much, much harder for people who believe they and their children have been injured by vaccines to receive compensation?

  • JGC

    We find out by conducting ethical retrospective epidemiologic studies.

  • JGC

    So you are not actually in favor of conducting the vaxed versus anti-vaxxed study you’re calling for?

  • JGC

    That isn’t analogous to the study you’re calling for: what would be analogous would be a study where the subjects were randomly sorted into groups, one of which would be deliberately exposed to a known hazardous substance contained in cigarette smoke.

  • JGC

    The [point is I have done the research, and all the evidence I’m aware of fails to support the existence of a causal association.
    If you’re aware of evidence I am not, sufficient to demonstrate such a causal association, why would you hesitate to provide it and change my mind?

  • JGC

    You didn’t answer my question, Judith: what is the legal definition of “unavoidably unsafe”?

  • JGC

    Very useful indeed.

  • AutismDadd

    Where did I say cigarette smoke? Direct smoking kills consumers who use this faulty, fraudulent product. Its completely analogous except to a pro-vac with Blind Faith Syndrome and similar to your use of correlation as evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    It only makes sense that pro-vacs supply the guinea pigs

  • AutismDadd

    History repeats itself and JGC does some repeating (bbrraaatt) of his own.

  • AutismDadd

    Pretty idiotic reply, but not a surprise.

  • AutismDadd

    What crapola. So he said it…PERIOD

  • AutismDadd

    Oh the vaccine caused polio…gotcha

  • AutismDadd

    Oh the word salad that has several meanings and we spend much time trying to narrow down what’s been said.

  • AutismDadd

    Or created by authorities while protecting the Vaccine Program. Yes I agree.

  • AutismDadd

    Right on Kim!

  • JGC

    I have no idea what you think you’re agreeing to, who the supposed ‘authorities’ you’re referring to might be, or why the vaccine program would require protection.
    Unless of course you’re about to embark on more flights of fancy involving global conspiracy theories.

  • JGC

    By all means let’s narrow it down: what is the legal definition of unavoidably unsafe?

  • JGC

    No, polio vaccines have not caused NPAFP. Viruses other than wild -type poliomyelitis or the inactivated vaccine strain are causing NVAFP.

  • JGC

    That is what you are objecting to, if you’re objecting to the NVICP and similar programs.

  • JGC

    Humans aren’t guinea pigs, AD (which is a large part of why the study you’re calling for cannot be ethically conducted).

  • JGC

    I don’t even know how to respond to this: in neither case is ‘bind faith’ operative.

  • shay simmons

    “Maybe you should read the comment…”

    You mean the latest in a long list of comments wherein disq0 accuses everyone who disagrees with him/her of being paid or a sock puppet? That post?

  • Kim Jensen

    ;)

  • AutismDadd

    That’s because you are clueless by nature.

  • AutismDadd

    Hilarious. FDA approval shuts down that drivel.

  • AutismDadd

    NVICP doesn’t hand out money for fraudulent claims, they are earned rightfully. Yet they deny most claims and its no fault status couldn’t be a bigger cover up scheme.

  • AutismDadd

    Oh, I thought it was a BOGUS definition thingy where they called it something they want us to buy, hook, line, sinker…

  • AutismDadd

    Is there one? Since you mentioned it you MUST supply it.

  • AutismDadd

    Feigned cluelessness noted, by I’m not fooled. Global Conspiracy? WTF are you babbling about? Try Medical/science consensus, and best practice, they are global, and the USA leads the way in profiting from it and so do makers who have near blanket protection from litigation.

  • JGC

    I would hope that the medical and scientific consensus were global (they wouldn’t represent much of a consensus if they were not).

  • AutismDadd

    Love this one. Mike I’m including myself in this reply OK?

  • JGC

    Yes, there is one. I asked Judith if she understood what it was, since she was using the term to suggest that vaccines are not appropriately safe. You responded to that post, so I expect that you will provide an answer to the question I asked in it.

  • JGC

    I’m glad I was able to correct your mistake.

  • shay simmons

    “Never sold vitamin mineral supplements”

    You need to update your profile on (popular business networking website) then. It says you’ve been a distributor for North Country Nutritionals since June of 2000.

  • AutismDadd

    They keep shooting themselves in the foot. Its why Mike won’t respond to me, or FalseAngel. I catch their lies and throw it in their faces. They hate that.

  • JGC

    I haven’t suggested that the NVICP hands out money for fraudulent claims, AD. I have in the past noted that they offer compensation for table injuries without any demonstration that vaccines caused the injuries for which compensation is awarded.

  • AutismDadd

    How about correlation then?

  • JGC

    How so? Doxorubicin and cisplatin are FDA approved chemotherapeutics: it would still be unethical to design a study where cancer patients were randomly separated into two different cohorts, one of which would be given chemo and the other placebo infusions.

  • AutismDadd

    Nice big, steaming stool sample of vaccine propaganda.

  • JGC

    Anything that increased over the same time period as the incidence of diagnoses of ASD’s increased, regardless of whether of not the two were causally related, will show correlation: cell phone use, sales of GMO produce, number of hip hop or rap albums produced annually, etc. That’s why correlation isn’t sufficient to demonstrate causation.

  • AutismDadd

    Another one? Like a booster shot of reading comprehension? Sounds good for Ploponent

  • AutismDadd

    Another duh moment from Mike

  • AutismDadd

    Its not that at all. Do you recommend and support medical consensus and best practice? If you do you are part of the medical machine that uses vaccines even with their faults, because there is no alternative. Children are harmed and its simply that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe for certain children. The actual conspiracy and collusion comes from the dirty tricks like disclaimers that say evidence will be ignored.

  • AutismDadd

    The SEAT BELT gambit. Haven’t heard that one for a few weeks.

  • AutismDadd

    Anecdotes are not evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    Now provide a second case.

  • AutismDadd

    Oops I hear crickets….

  • AutismDadd

    Yet most claims about vaccines fall into that very category. Plus its great marketing to be allowed to make false claims.

  • AutismDadd

    Stay on topic. FDA approves the use of new products on consumers as part of the safety studies. If problematic, you can’t sue once FDA gives approval. Great gig

  • JGC

    What claims about vaccines are supported only by correlation? Be specific.

  • shay simmons

    Proponent’s original post was in response to Ron’s claim that he checked out the headstones in local cemeteries and only found four that belonged to young children.

    http://disq.us/p/1kra2i6

    Why, lookey there – on the very first page of the very first link, the fourth headstone (St Anne’s), I find one for Alice Marie Albert, who lived only a few months. She has for company three of her siblings, Arthur, Rita and Leon, who all died before their fifth birthday. On the same page you will also see Marie Stella Albert (no relation), Joseph Arguin, and Dora Aube. Dora almost made it to age six.

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GScid=103095

    That’s just in the first 40 records. Could our Ron be telling porkies?

  • AutismDadd

    What stupidity. Table injuries are agreed upon and is professional evidence from experts. They aren’t pulled from a hat dumbo.

  • AutismDadd

    By lying again? Interesting pattern you have.

  • AutismDadd

    Not a chance. Balls in your court Yogi

  • AutismDadd

    But do you actually understand the importance of it? Please surprise me with some honesty, just this once.

  • AutismDadd

    Where did I say ONLY?

  • AutismDadd

    Opinions aren’t mistakes.

  • Jonathan is bored.

    That was wrong.

    Is it? it’s in an section discussing the theoretical amount of eptiopic response an infant can mount by calculating the number of B-cells per ml of blood. So if you’re talking purely about theoretical antigen response by virtue of one variable then is there really a reason to disagree here?

    Now if you want to change what’s being discussed by the authors to something different. You should probably state exactly what that different thing is.

  • AutismDadd

    Large numbers? How large? Is it the 100, 000 or the 10,000 you want to go with? Tell us why so many studies are necessary if the issue is open & shut? Why are they wasting research money like this? Why did Paul Offit claim only 17 studies, and CDC during a congressional hearing claim 1 and possibly 3 vaccine/ autism studies, which doesn’t include the William Thompson study?

  • JGC

    “Tell us why so many studies are necessary if the issue is open & shut?”
    For a number of reasons. In response to questions raised about vaccine safety (the publication of Wakefield’s retracted Lancet study alone was responsible for generating a large number of studies conducted in multiple nations over a period of decades. Each new vaccine introduced will institute a additional series of studies to characterize its safety and efficacy, etc. Studies to determine if improvements can be made to vaccines themselves, to the schedule by which they’re delivered, duration of protection, etc. are performed regularly.
    That’s what science does, AD: constantly keep questioning it’s previous findings, looking for mistakes or improvements.
    Re: Offit’s ‘mere’ 17 studies, how many previous studies were cited in their bibliographies? And how many in turn do those studies cite?

  • JGC

    You stated that most claims about vaccines fall into the ‘very category’ of correlation. If they’re supported as well by evidence, they don’t fall into that category.

  • JGC

    The importance of what–forming a scientific consensus?

  • JGC

    I haven’t said they were pulled from a hat: I’ve said only that when awards are given for table injuries they represent a settlement, with no finding made that the vaccines received caused the injuries claimed.

  • JGC

    The FDA approved Vioxx, they approved Premarin. Nothing prevented people from filing suit against their developers.

  • Proponent

    Good to know that you think that Johns Hopkins is a reliable source, Ronald P. Roy.. here you go..

    “The latest issue of Annals of Internal Medicine contains three articles addressing “the role of vitamin and mineral supplements for preventing the occurrence or progression of chronic diseases.” An editorial in the same Dec. 17 issue offers the following recommendation, based upon the most current research: “Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided.”

    The editorial, titled “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Mineral Supplements,” was co-authored by five doctors, including three Johns Hopkins professors: Drs. Eliseo Guallar, Lawrence J. Appel, and Edgar R. Miller III.

    According to The Wall Street Journal, the editorial is “the latest in a series of reports—including a review last month of 26 vitamin studies—indicating that supplements have little health benefits in generally well-nourished, Western populations.” What’s more, notes the editorial, not only are vitamins not that beneficial for most of us; some supplements, such as “beta-carotene, vitamin E, and possibly high doses of vitamin A, [might increase] the risk of death” in certain instances.

    As you can imagine, the $23.4 billion vitamin industry isn’t really tweeting their praise of the editorial.”

    (Source: “Multivitamins are, at best, a waste of money, Johns Hopkins doctors say” )

  • Proponent

    Ron Roy: “(*Ron turns to face his customer at the counter after having reorganized
    the display rack of gum*) Nope I didn’t sell guns or have a gun rack.”

    As always.. even with the words right in front of him, Ronald P. Roy can’t get things right.

  • AutismDadd

    As it should be too. But what else did Merck do that made their actions criminal. Can you refresh our memories?

  • AutismDadd

    yea DUH because it negates the real evidence that is vaccine induced. Open your eyes!!!!!

  • AutismDadd

    The importance of it being a global strategy with global outcomes. You are not swift.

  • AutismDadd

    IF they are supported. And who gets to claim they are? The usual suspects?

  • JGC

    It’s not a question of who gets to claim anything: it’s a question of what the evidence regarding vaccine safety or efficacy indicates.

  • AutismDadd

    What gobbly goop. Why then is it stated that a vaccine doesn’t need further study even if you add chicken pox too it? And so what does citing studies to do with repetitive, redundant studies? Again the open & shut needs more study?

  • JGC

    I’m sorry, but at this point your posts are dissolving into word salad. A global strategy on whose part, to achieve what outcome?

  • AutismDadd

    And how were they handled? How many MERCK owners, shareholders or employees served prison time?

  • JGC

    If you decided to produce and market a new multivalent vaccine, by (for example) adding varicella to the antigens found in DTaP to created DVTaP, rest assured: you’d have to conduct safety studies.

  • AutismDadd

    Still waiting for that definition. Is this another example of your unwillingness to back up your claims?

  • Proponent

    Kim Jenson: “I pay no mind to them.”

    And, yet..

    Kim Jenson: “Awwww. What’s wrong? Can’t handle it because you know we’re right? You’re the dumbass on here, not me. And furthermore, you can go f*** yourself!”

    Kim Jenson: “And I think that you’re stupid because you are stupid!”

    Kim Jenson: “What don’t you fu***** understand about that? ??”

    Kim Jenson: “You’re so pro vaccine that it makes me want to vomit! F*** your damn disgusting vaccines! And how are you gonna send me some damn article from Germany when I can’t even read where the fake info came from? It’s in German! I am an American! I speak only English! I believe that the article you posted is a bogus one.”

    So, as evidenced by the her posts/comments above.. Kim Jenson is clearly indifferent to the cogent arguments against her ranting.. and apparently, has never heard of google translate.

  • JGC

    As am I–hopefully Judith will respond and provide it in the near future.

  • AutismDadd

    Tell that to parents needing compensation

  • AutismDadd

    Don’t know. What is it?

  • JGC

    Irrelevant: your claim was “If problematic, you can’t sue once FDA gives approval”. I’ve offered 2 examples where suits were allowed after products had received FDA approval.

  • AutismDadd

    Nonsense

  • AutismDadd

    Nonsense. Mike’s favorite thing.

  • AutismDadd

    You claimed there was a definition. What are you claiming now?

  • JGC

    Okay.
    Attention parents needing compensation: humans are not guinea pigs, and it would be unethical to conduct a prospective vaccinated versus unvaccinated study.

  • AutismDadd

    How long ago were they? And what’s happened since then in regard to FDA approval?

  • AutismDadd

    That’s not my understanding. Ask Judith when you get that definition.

  • AutismDadd

    Both outcomes that you’d expect. Disease reduction and vaccine adverse reactions. Why do you think autism is a world wide phenomenon?

  • AutismDadd

    Buh Wah Ha Ha got you cornered again. Who says what the evidence is?

  • AutismDadd

    Deflection noted. The pattern being, I get you in numerous strangle holds and you smear bullshit on yourself to wriggle out.

  • AutismDadd

    Try BEFORE 2013…snicker…another strangle hold

  • AutismDadd

    And Judith is reliable…you not so much

  • AutismDadd

    Oh well I’m going to take a break from TROUNCING you.

  • JGC

    Deflection? I did exactly as you requested.

  • Proponent

    Reading comprehension?

    You mean.. like your non-response to JGC’s post to the one thread above of;

    JGC: “Standard challenge: can anyone opposed to routine childhood vaccination offer any actual evidence demonstrating that the risks associated with routine childhood vaccination exceed the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection by the diseases they protect against?”

    Your reply?

    Stace325: “It’s the parents decision whether or not to vaccinate their children. There is no guarantee that vaccines work – all vaccine drug inserts state this. If they did work, booster vaccines (3+) at regular intervals would not be necessary. The possible side affects/effects(?) are worse than the disease. All vaccine drug inserts list side affects. Vaccines destroy the bodies natural immune system. That’s easy enough for you to google and validate. If vaccines are safe why was pharma relieved of any responsibility should the vaccine cause harm, serious damage, and even death to the vaccinated. Would you buy a new car if the warranty stated no one is responsible for any possible defects; if the brakes fail – too bad! if we forgot to put oil in the engine or put transmission fluid in the coolant system – too bad. Any business that refuses to stand behind their products is suspect.”

    … was devoid of any evidence. Nada.. zero.. zilch.. evidence.

    Bare assertions? Oh, yeah.. in spades.

    Deflections/evasions.. strawmen? Yep.

    Hardly a cogent response, Stace325.. logically fallacious? You bet.

    Might I suggest going back and rereading JGC’s original post to that thread? If you have any difficulties in understanding what exactly JGC was asking for.. I’d be glad to help … if you ask nicely.

  • JGC

    Autism is a world-wide problem for the same reason other neurodevelopmental disorders (ADD, ADHD< intellectual developmental disorder, cerebral palsy, Tourette's syndrome, etc.) are world-wide problems: development of the human brain during gestation is tightly regulated, such that small perturbations in normal development can cause persistent dysfunction following delivery.

  • Ron Roy

    35 Pharmaceutical drugs taken off the market that were formerly approved by the FDA:https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528

    o

    More than 259 million opioid prescriptions were written in 2012
    ü
    1 9 million Americans are addicted to opioid painkillers
    ü
    The U
    S makes up 4 6 percent of the world’s populations but
    consumes 81 percent of the world supply of oxycodone
    ü
    4 3 million adolescents and adults reported non-medical use
    of prescription opioids in 2014
    ü 4 out of 5 heroin users started on prescription opioid
    http://www.nsc.org/RxDrugOverdoseDocuments/Prescription-Nation-2016-American-Drug-Epidemic.pdf

    1

  • David

    Again, showing your complete lack of understanding of study design and research.
    A study design of your self selected unvaccinated against those chosen to vaccinate would not be valid and would have too many confounding factors.
    Useful study would be to have people randomly assigned to the vaccinated and unvaccinated group. Patoents and examiners blinded.
    However this study would not be possible as we all know it is unethical to withhold lifesaving vaccines which have been proven without a doubt to save lives.

  • Ron Roy

    Please be specific where does it say anywhere on the internet that I sold vitamin mineral supplements.Remember now be specific.

  • Ron Roy

    I’ll believe what these HONEST doctors and scientist have to say over you’re drug pushing associates: http://orthomolecular.org/

  • shay simmons

    Shall I post a link to your entire CV? I took a screen shot from the site.

    http://disq.us/p/1lrnxdv

  • Ron Roy

    Ooooo you found ONE. Where are the hundreds of kids who died of the so called deadly diseases? You know chickenpox, measles, polio etc Your turn.

  • Ron Roy

    Yes please post a link. You have my permission.

  • Proponent

    Hmmm.. this is interesting, Ronald P. Roy..

    The website Orthomolecular lists Linus Pauling under their “History” section.

    The same Linus Pauling that suggested treating cancer with high-doses of vitamin C.

    The same Linus Pauling that died from prostate cancer.

  • shay simmons

    I found seven children who died before they were ten, Ron. Did you forget your original statement, or are you lying again?

  • Hans

    If you understood how medical consensus is reached and best practices are determined, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Because, science.

  • Skepticalofskeptics

    Bravo good man.

  • Mike Stevens

    Apparently you missed the news that the average training time (but excluding further course work and practical work) for nutrition in US medical schools was 24.7 hours.

  • Mike Stevens

    Sounds far worse than aluminium…

  • *Yoink*

  • Now you know why I number the attempts at getting answers.

  • AutismDadd

    So you deflect rather than answer a simple set of questions. If vaccines were safe we wouldn’t have these forums.

  • AutismDadd

    Great blah blah. I get you’re afraid what a study would find. Might cost you your shilling job.

  • AutismDadd

    Crap. The common element is vaccination.

  • AutismDadd

    And then there’s the lying.

  • AutismDadd

    Its too late stooge, they are already victimized. Good thing you don’t drive an ambulance.

  • FallsAngel

    LOL, polysorbate 80 is in commercial ice cream. No Ben and Jerry’s for you, Kim!

  • AutismDadd

    You have penis envy don’t you? Size does matter little man.

  • Hans

    Another tragic case. I have no doubt these parents thought they were doing what was best for their child. But this is what can happen when parents are convinced they know more than medical experts and overwhelming scientific consensus.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tamara-lovett-ryan-failing-provide-necessaries-trial-decision-1.3947694

  • Hans

    Yes, I 100% agree with you. But the entire anti-vax movement is based on anecdotes.

  • Kim Jensen

    As I said, poison pushers! They’re not going to intimidate me! They think that they’re right about everything! We know the TRUTH and they can’t handle it!

  • You only need one single grown antigen for each specific illness, (so called disease), that you vaccinate for. Not hundreds, and not thousands. How do you explain that they needed more than a single antigen, and instead hundreds and thousands of them, as for a single vaccinated for pathogen ? Such a suggested claim as well entirely ignores all the vaccine ingredients and as well the known vaccine contamination that exists in each vaccine, or combination of vaccines. Focusing on vaccine antigens and claiming to less antigens being present, as well does nothing to show directly any form of actual and existing injected vaccine safety.

    Vaccine Ingredients and Manufacturer Information
    (alphabetical order by vaccine)
    https://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206

  • And when IV vitamin C was used historically, and as well encapsulated liposomal forms of vitamin C, no such serious effects have been known of. You are simply a quack and a charlatan; and all while in your obvious hypocrisy, so called modern pharma medicine continues to be known as the leading cause of death in America, and that over the numbers of cancer and heart disease deaths, individually.

    Why Liposomal Encapsulation?
    http://www.livonlabs.com/

    PHARMA DEATH CLOCK

    TOTAL DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE JANUARY 1, 2000…

    BIG PHARMA’S CHEMICAL WARFARE ON HUMANITY DWARFS THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS KILLED BY ALL WORLD WARS AND ACTS OF TERRORISM COMBINED…

    While drug companies profit billions, people are dying by the millions.

    http://pharmadeathclock.com/

    MEDICINE KILLS MILLIONS (direct data and statistics)
    http://medicinekillsmillions.com/

    Conventional Medicine is the Leading Cause of Death
    https://draxe.com/conventional-medicine-is-the-leading-cause-of-death/

    Western Medicine is Rockefeller Medicine – All The Way
    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/western-medicine-rockefeller-medicine/

    These 13 Corporations Are “Big Pharma”: Their History, Crimes, and Products
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSRwhceBxk

    Our Stories
    SSRI Stories is a collection of over 6,000 stories that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) in which prescription drugs were mentioned and in which the drugs may be linked to a variety of adverse outcomes including violence.

    https://ssristories.org/

    Benjamin Rush
    U.S. Founding Father, Signer of The Declaration of Independence
    (1746-1813)

    Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.

    http://www.all-creatures.org/quotes/rush_benjamin.html

  • Really . . . PRATTS? That sure made a lot of sense?

    Gardasil, constitutes today one of the routine and attempted to be mandated, vaccinations. Who is actually the big dummy here, you are me? You can sit on your obviously chosen ignorance, and your denial, all you want. You can’t handle the vaccine truth, and you refuse to face it.

    And the fancy ads and the TV commercials still roll, pushing Gardasil, and the now even more dangerous FDA approved, Gardasil 9 for girls and boys. Do you think that it may be past time, to shut this down? It is not going to happen, and that is how much sick power and control they at the FDA and Merck, actually have.

    Girl Commits Suicide After Gardasil Vaccine Destroys Her Life

    The VAXXED team recently interviewed a mother who tells about how her daughter took her own life after suffering from the Gardasil vaccine for several years. A doctor in their church recommended the HPV vaccine to them. After receiving the second Gardasil vaccine at the age of 15, she became very lethargic and could hardly get out of bed, suffering from horrible headaches. They had to black out the light in her room because of the pain it caused, and she did not leave her bed for days. Prior to the vaccine, she was healthy and active, and rarely missed a day of school. The family had to hire a teacher to teach her sophomore year of high school since she could not leave her home. After starting a very strict diet that an alternative health practitioner recommended, the family had some hope that she would recover. But she battled depression, and it was learned from her journals after her death that she had a constant buzzing sound in her head. She had tried every anti-depressant drug on the market without success.

    Read More..

    Girl Commits Suicide After Gardasil Vaccine Destroys Her Life
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2017/girl-commits-suicide-after-gardasil-vaccine-destroys-her-life/

    Chloe Leanne Brookes is in ***very*** critical condition now, and just about anything could prove to be fatal. Her situation is so bad that it took her 2 weeks to write 14 paragraphs to give us an update on her health status – using a knuckle, one letter at a time, because the HPV vaccine has destroyed just about every possible thing it could destroy in her 19 year old body. She is in constant intense pain, has multiple daily seizures, and can’t even talk anymore. :( She has been and is an advocate for the vaccine injured, and one of the most vocal, bravest and smartest vaccine injured ones I have encountered. Will you join me in prayer to uplift her spirits, have her surrounded by angels and bring forth all required resources to ease her pain and suffering?

    You can read her update here:
    http://www.facebook.com/ChloesVaccineInjuryJourney/photos/a.744131662403059.1073741829.740875279395364/854038938078997

    Gardasil Victims and their stories
    http://www.mygardasilstory.com/

    HPV Vaccine VAERS Reports
    DESCRIPTION TOTAL
    Disabled 1,974
    Deaths 324
    Did Not Recover 9,686
    Abnormal Pap Smear 618
    Cervical Dysplasia 279
    Cervical Cancer 129
    Life Threatening 825
    Emergency Room 14,518
    Hospitalized 4,795
    Extended Hosp. Stay 321
    Serious 6,836
    Total Adverse Events 51,522

    http://sanevax.org/

    February, 2012: The Limits of VAERS

    Underreporting. Because the reports are submitted voluntarily, many patients and doctors do not report vaccine reactions. Different estimates exist for the amount of underreporting and range from a factor of 10 to as much as a factor of 100 (meaning that the true number of vaccine reactions is between 10 and 100 times higher than what is reported to VAERS).

    Read more:
    http://www.medalerts.org/analysis/archives/504

    JULY 18, 2017
    Hiding Vaccine-Related Deaths With Semantic Sleight-of-Hand
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/what-we-do/hiding-vaccine-related-deaths-semantic-sleight-hand/

    Electronic Support for Public Health–Vaccine Adverse
    Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS)

    Abstract
    Purpose: To develop and disseminate HIT evidence and evidence-based tools to improve healthcare decision making through the use of integrated data and knowledge management. Scope: To create a generalizable system to facilitate detection and clinician reporting of vaccine adverse events, in order to improve the safety of national vaccination programs. Methods: Electronic medical records available from all ambulatory care encounters in a large multi-specialty practice were used. Every patient receiving a vaccine was automatically identified, and for the next 30 days, their health care diagnostic codes, laboratory tests, and medication prescriptions were evaluated for values suggestive of an adverse event. Results: Restructuring at CDC and consequent delays in terms of decision making have made it challenging despite best efforts to move forward with discussions regarding the evaluation of ESP:VAERS performance in a randomized trial and comparison of ESP:VAERS performance to existing VAERS and Vaccine Safety Datalink data. However, Preliminary data were collected and analyzed and this initiative has been presented at a number of national symposia.

    Results
    Preliminary data were collected from June 2006 through October 2009 on 715,000 patients, and 1.4 million doses (of 45 different vaccines) were given to 376,452 individuals. Of these doses, 35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified. This is an average of 890 possible events, an average of 1.3 events per clinician, per month. These data were presented at the 2009 AMIA conference.

    In addition, ESP:VAERS investigators participated on a panel to explore the perspective of clinicians, electronic health record (EHR) vendors, the pharmaceutical industry, and the FDA towards systems that use proactive, automated adverse event reporting.

    Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed. Barriers to reporting include a lack of clinician awareness, uncertainty about when and what to report, as well as the burdens of reporting: reporting is not part of clinicians’ usual workflow, takes time, and is duplicative. Proactive, spontaneous, automated adverse event reporting imbedded within EHRs and other information systems has the potential to speed the identification of problems with new drugs and more careful quantification of the risks of older drugs.

    Unfortunately, there was never an opportunity to perform system performance assessments because the necessary CDC contacts were no longer available and the CDC consultants responsible for receiving data were no longer responsive to our multiple requests to proceed with testing and evaluation.

    Read more:
    https://healthit.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf

    There are now thousands of existing victims with unrecovered from disability outcomes, globally, and due to this unproven vaccine. And what has the FDA done in the US? Nothing, and they simply band recently approved another Gardasil 9 and which is even more dangerous, and with double the aluminum adjuvant content.

    HPV vaccine survivors in the Czech Republic
    http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-survivors-in-the-czech-republic/

  • I have already read all the information on it, and you are directly full of sh$t. Of course the CDC and their minions are going to try and cover it up, and it did happen and exactly what has been stated. You can not as well erase Thompson’s own direct statements as were recorded by Brian Hooker. The MMR vaccine has caused thousands of vaccine injuries and with resulting autism in both black and white children; so just simply face that fact.

    And how about as well all these studies? All of the skunk bag shillary denial and deliberate ignorance in the world that you can come up with, simply can not cover it up.

    Research References
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

  • The independent and the real study science has directly shown us what is going on-on all levels. How about if you actually did a Pubmed search? Or are you to busy vaccinating? Both the study science is clearly there, and as well thousands of what you call only anecdotal reports from parents.

    No one said the entire childhood vaccination schedule is given in one day. What I said is that Offit has stated that infants and children can safely tolerate 10,000 vaccines in a single day. (And he has stated that directly, and as a fact). So therefore it should be entirely safe for you to take the entire vaccine schedule in a single day. That amounts to just under 70 injected doses of vaccine by the age of 18. How about if you just took what they get by age six and which is 48 doses? How about the almost 30 doses by age 2?

    The fact that you would likely become very ill from just the issue of immune system cytokine reactivity, and the equivalent of a cytokine storm and end up in intensive care or worse, would provide and yield more than enough information regarding the safety of vaccines, and that childhood schedule.

    If it were mandated for you to even get as much as a couple doses of Gardasil 9; I think you would be running away, and refusing it. The evidence in part is as well found in you being willing to actually vaccinating yourself, get it?

  • But you can’t even as much as put forth what is incorrect about it; and because it is correct. You also again as well attempt only more personal harassment in regard to my name, and all while you are to cowardly to provide your own name and identity. And that pathetic effort here, was the best you could do.

  • leftbrainrightbrain is nothing but a seriously biased and twisted disinformation blog source, no different than Gorski and SR.

    William Thompson stated clearly what had been done and when it was recorded directly by Brian Hooker, and there is no way to erase that kind of truth and reality, and no matter what kind of twisted garbage you put forth. The taking issue with any donations as well only shows your own hypocrisy, and when the entire vaccine issue is about them making big money.

  • In fact Offit’s claims and his statement were quite clear, and as made in the October 2005 issue of CHOP magazine. Below you will find a copy of that said issue. Why has not Offit ever volunteered to go live and on video taking even as many as 100 of those vaccines? You know, to show the safety of those vaccines? I will tell you why? Because the antigens existing in even 100 injected vaccines, would likely cause a fatal cyctokine storm, that is why. The guy is a no supporting and existing science there, idiot. The copy of that said CHOP issue is right here, take a look.

    Here Offit says kids can take 100,000 vaccines at once. He then changed it to 10,000: “In fact, Dr. Offit’s studies show that in theory, healthy infants could safely get up to 100,000 vaccines at once.”

    http://whale.to/vaccines/offit23.html

  • Are you and JGC the same person? Sure looks like it. Already answered.

  • At what dose are they deadly to the human body?

  • Ben

    It’s a vitamin, and we have lost the ability to synthesize it. Many other animals bio-synthesize this in gram amounts from glucose.

    You sound like a complete moron saying that this “sounds worse than aluminum.” But vitamin-fear seems common among limeys like you, who can only stand vitamin C from Gin&Tonics.

    (If it weren’t for Tanqueray, Mike would have scurvy.)

    Better watch your intake Mike. The ethanol is nothing compared to the ascorbic acid.

    Do you use Calumet™ for a hangover?

  • Ruth

    Well actually vitamin C is part of the cure for sepsis. But some people would rather let people die than cure them, so strongly held are their beliefs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eaCKZbcZjo
    Maybe it can put some people out of business?

  • Ruth

    You need to ask the experts, if you dare! Take a look at series “Vaccines Revealed”, “The Truth About Vaccines” and “Vaxxed: From Cover-up to Catastrophe”. They’re all very interesting and raise some astonishing questions that need to be addressed.

    And the latest scientific research on the flu vaccine. What a scam! It shows that 1. it doesn’t work after a couple of years (i.e. efficacy falls dramatically) and 2. it makes people more susceptible to other strains of flu as well as other viruses. My personal belief is that it wasn’t necessary anyway and there are two reasons for that.

    You really need to stop believing pharmaceutical marketing and start asking questions. It’s called selling ice to the Eskimos and it’s getting really dull.

  • Ruth

    Gravity isn’t old fashioned it’s a part of nature, as are viruses and their part in nature. Unfortunately ignorance is old fashioned as is an unwillingness to open one’s mind.

  • Ruth

    What I don’t recognize is dogma and blind faith. Lol, poor Trump. I take it you’re not an supporter?

  • Mike Stevens

    I wouldn’t really label Vitamin C the “cure” for sepsis. It may well have a crucial metabolic role in the critically ill, and play a useful part in their management. It will hardly put ICUs “out of business”.

    Your link is to a youtube video by Paul Marik. I am aware of his work in sepsis which concerns not just Vitamin C but also, rather controversially and in some contradiction to the usual Surviving Sepsis Campaign guidelines, restricted fluid therapy and very proactive vasopressor therapy within the first 24 hours of critical treatment, and the use of adjunctive steroids. These may all have what proves to be a significant beneficial role. Other major trials are continuing in these areas, including one called “ADRENAL” in NZ and Australia.

    Alt med and Vitamin salesmen have not been slow to jump onto any evidence that Vitamin C may be useful in certain specific situations, and have leaped on the snakeoil bandwagon more than ever since the study about Vitamin C in critical care patients with sepsis appeared.

    The point I was making was that Vitamin C, as advised as a supplement in megadoses, can have some serious side effects, something that people often don’t consider because they assume it’s “just a vitamin” and they think high doses of “natural” substances are entirely harmless.

    What is clear from the available evidence (and lack of evidence) is that Vitamin C has no useful therapeutic role in the treatment of most acute/long term infectious diseases such as rabies, polio, pertussis, hepatits, HIV etc where mythical and quite magical effects have been claimed for it in the past

    Alt med advocates are used to extrapolating dubious or marginal benefits in a selective area into snake-oil claims that the agent is suddenly a new wonder cure for everything under the sun including old age, cancer, diabetes, AIDS and chilblains. Megadose Vitamin C is no different.

    What we need to see are verifiable claims, confirmed by appropriate replication in proper scientific settings – for all medical interventions, including drugs, vaccines and vitamins.

  • Mike Stevens

    OK, let’s see.
    You claimed Vitamin K injections in the newborn cause autoimmune disease and cancer.
    ” It’s no coincidence that there is a huge increase in autoimmune diseases (linked to HIB and Vit K shots) and cancer (especially in children, which has been linked to the Vit K shot).”

    Can you give your own up to date sources for this information, so we can all judge how they rank in the scale of plausibility and fit within the accepted hierarchy of clinical/scientific evidence, and your reasons for accepting what those sources say is true?
    That would be illuminating, and reveal much about your abilities for critical thinking in that process of assessing the validity of evidence.

    The original suggestion about the cancer link came in 1990 (27 years ago) relating to patients studied from as early as 1970.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2386748?access_num=2386748&link_type=MED&dopt=Abstract
    It concerned 33 patients, with 99 controls as a comparison.

    As a counterpoint, here are some more recent sources of information on cancer and Vitamin K that I personally feel that I can trust, as they have analysed numerous further studies, and looked at far more patients than were reported with the original association.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14520451
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/112/1/191
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199309233291301#t=article

  • Kim Jensen

    You’re the scientist, you ought to know. You’re not fooling anyone will all of these different accounts. Your name says it all!

  • Mike Stevens

    There is a vacancy at my local University for a chair in Logic and Critical Thinking.
    Care to apply…?

  • sabelmouse

    but it IS ethical to give untested vaccines to children!
    something is very wrong here. for one the assumption that vaccines are inherently needed.

  • sabelmouse

    almost forgot about it.
    i wonder if there’s liability for malfunctioning seat belts?

  • David

    You, Ron and Lowell should be excited. Finally all your hard work can be rewarded.
    http://thesciencepost.com/cdc-to-open-new-department-consisting-of-people-who-have-done-their-research/amp/

  • JGC

    I’m confused–I checked PubMed, but found none of the series indexed. You do understand that peer-reviewed scientific journals are the forum in which actual experts publish their results and both present and defend the conclusions they derive from them?

    Re: the flu vaccine: of course it won’t protect you after a few years: flue vaccines are strain specific, and each season different strains predominate. The vaccines don’t make people mores susceptible to other strains, they simply don’t offer protection against strains other than those predicted to represent the most predominant strains circulating in the coming season. That prediction, by the way, must be made 8 to 12 months prior to the start of the coming flu season to allow for development and production of sufficient vaccine).

    I don’t really pay attention to pharmaceutical marketing (I’m not a healthcare provider). I instead pay attention to the existing body of evidence regarding vaccine safety and efficacy, and when I ask questions I go to peer-reviewed studies published in first and second tier scientific journals (i.e., I ask the experts just as you suggest).

  • JGC

    I search PubMed often and extensively. I haven’t found any indexed articles desmonstrating that vaccines are ‘vaccines are destroying the minds, bodies, and the health of infants and children, and that now on a massive scale’.

    Perhaps you cite the pubmed indexed study/article that in your mind represents the single most credible and compelling piece of evidence that is the case so that I might consider it?

    “No one said the entire childhood vaccination schedule is given in one day.”

    Then why did you suggest I “go take the entire childhood vaccine schedule yourself and all in one day”? What information do you believe doing so would provide?

    “If it were mandated for you to even get as much as a couple doses of Gardasil 9; I think you would be running away, and refusing it”
    You would be wrong. At my age I’m not in the cohort for which HPV vaccination is recommended–if I were I have already arranged to be vaccinated. My children were/are at the age where it was recommended, and the two oldest have been vaccinated while my youngest will receive the vaccine as recommended when she is of the appropriate age.
    And I am willing to be actually vaccinated myself: I’m either up to date with all recommended vaccines or had the diseases as a child before vaccines were available. The next on the list will be the shingles vaccine, later this year.

  • JGC

    “I have already read all the information on it, and you are directly full of sh$t. ”

    Identify then exactly what data was destroyed or is being covered up? Be specific.

    It can’t be the data concerning African American children who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months of age, as clearly Brian Hooker had no trouble getting his hands on it to craft his irretrievably flawed and rapidly retracted so-called ‘reanalysis’ of the DeStefano data set.

    So what data was it?

    ‘The MMR vaccine has caused thousands of vaccine injuries and with resulting autism in both black and white children; so just simply face that fact.”

    Citations needed: what actual evidence demonstrates that the MMR vaccine has caused thousands of cases of autism in black and white children?

    Oh, wait…that’s right. You don’t have any.

    Re: “all of these studies?” have you read them? They don’t provide evidence demonstrating the existence of a casual association between MMR vaccination and ASD’s. According to PubMed some (such as Balzola F, et al. Autistic Enterocolitis in childhood: the early evidence of the later Crohn’s disease in autistic adulthood? Gastroenterology April 2007 Vol 132, N. 4, suppl 2 W 1100 A 660) don’t appear to exist.

  • FallsAngel

    None of those sources you cited are “experts”. Groups with hyperbolic names seldom offer anything close to accuracy.

    JGC gave a good response to your first concern about flu vaccine. How about you cite some evidence for 2. ? I never heard that before. What I’ve seen first hand as a health care provider is that people may get a flu shot and then get another strain not contained in the vaccine, which is not the vaccine making them more susceptible.

    Flu is the vaccine-preventable disease the average person in the US is most likely to get, be hospitalized for, and die from.

  • David

    Like usual…when proven wrong then resorts to ad hominem attacks

  • JGC

    “Girl Commits Suicide After Gardasil Vaccine Destroys Her Life”
    The link fails to indicate how it was established that the lethargy, depression, etc. Maddie experienced after receiving the vaccine actually was caused by the vaccine. Can you explain how that was done, on any basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy?
    You do, I trust, realize that ‘after’ is not a synonym for ‘because of’.
    The same question must be asked of Chloe Brookes.
    Can you quote the warning the VAERS database managers require everyone who access the database acknowledge, indicating why the list of adverse events reported to VAERS following HPC vaccination cannot be considered to be evidence that HPV vaccination caused those events to occur?

  • Ron Roy

    Linus Pauling was right about vitamin C. Age is also factor when it comes to diseases.Sooner or later nothing will help stop or cure any disease natural or not. Besides he was 93. Most people die way before that age.The average age at which medical doctors die is 73 so I would say his recipe for longevity was a lot better than theirs

  • Ron Roy

    Conclusion: With the move to a more integrated
    curriculum and problem-based learning at many medical schools, a
    substantial portion of
    the total nutrition instruction is occurring
    outside courses specifically dedicated to nutrition. The amount of
    nutrition
    education in medical schools remains inadequate.

  • JGC

    ‘You only need one single grown antigen for each specific illness, (so called disease), that you vaccinate for”

    And if we’d always had the ability to create vaccines that incorporated on or a limited number of antigens we’d have done so.

    We didn’t, however, prior to the development of molecular biological techniques and instead relied on attenuated virus/ whole cell vaccines or acellular vaccines incorporating blood derived antigens or antigens derived from whole cell lysates.

    As I explained the development of that molecular biology as well as the elimination of diseases like smallpox is the reason why the number of antigens children are exposed to as the result of routine vaccination has decreased from thousands as the result of 7 scheduled vaccinations to just over 300 as the result of 14 vaccines.

    “Focusing on vaccine antigens and claiming to less antigens being present, as well does nothing to show directly any form of actual and existing injected vaccine safety”
    Just as providing lists of the ingredients found in vaccine formulations does nothing to show–even indirectly–that the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to the infectious diseases they protect against.

  • JGC

    If that were the case, we would expect the incidence of autism in vaccinated individuals to be greater than the incidence in unvaccinated individuals–it’s not.

    We’d also expect to see the incidence of autism in younger individuals to be greater than the incidence in older individuals, as a consequence of the addition of more vaccines to the recommended schedule–we don’t.

    And we would not see most of the increase in diagnoses of ASD’s over time would not be a function of factors other than changes in vaccine exposure–but we do. The observed increase in fact is primarily a function of factors such as broadening of diagnostic criteria, increased surveillance, diagnostic substitution and changes in reporting practices.

    A recent Danish study ( Explaining the increase in the prevalence of autism spectrum disorders: the proportion attributable to changes in reporting practices January 2015, PMID: 2536503) found that changes to reporting practices alone may account for as much as 60% of the observed increase in the prevalence of ASD diagnoses in that nation.

  • JGC

    It would appear you can’t rely on her to respond to direct questions.

  • JGC

    High praise, indeed.

  • JGC

    vaccine formulations do not contain anti-freeze, BTW. You’re confusing polyethylene glycol (which is not an antifreeze) for ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol (which are).

  • Ron Roy

    Died from what afire ( which was common in the late 1800s and early 1900s ) or getting trampled by horses or foul play ( yes that happened more often that people today would believe ) or some other UNKNOWN causes. I want to see where there were many deaths do to smallpox, measles, chickenpox, polio etc.

  • shay simmons

    Gee, and here I thought you claimed that cause of deaths were listed and you were unable to find anyone who died of a childhood disease.

    Porkies again, Ron?

  • Thomas Mohr

    David, when you think anti-vaxxers have reached a new low, they surprise one again. On the other hand, what did you expect from somebody whose organ he refers to is bigger than his brain ?

  • Brian

    Hi Kim. I’m a scientist. If you want to know whether a chemical is dangerous, you can simply compare the quantity to the various safety thresholds that chemical, such as LD50, MRL, or NOAEL.

    This is one of the ways we know that the ingredients in vaccines are not dangerous, because the quantities are too low.

  • Cypher

    Excuse me but you left our discussion abruptly and you have a few unanswered questions. I’m trying to be patient with you.

  • Mike Stevens

    Yes, it’s regarded as inadequate because it only averaged 23.9 hrs when they recommend 25.
    But fact remains, it’s still 4 times what you clamed it was.

  • JGC

    I’ve answered your questions: you just didn’t like the answers you received–all while very studiously avoiding answering any questions yourself.

  • Cypher

    No. You avoid them and don’t acknowledge when you’re wrong. Jump to our conversation and continue. I’m in this for the long run because its amusing.

  • Brian

    I haven’t seen the whole thread, but which of your questions do you think went unanswered?

  • Mike Stevens

    Again Ruth is labouring under the misconception that the distorted propaganda she read about flu vaccines is somehow the real deal.
    The bit about the vaccine making “people more susceptible to other strains of flu as well as other viruses” is a case in point.

    There was indeed one study showing that the incidence of other respiratory virus infections had “increased” following influenza vaccination, so there is a kernel of truth in the claim.
    The explanation however was that with fewer cases of the (potentially severe) influenza cases in circulation consequent to widespread vaccination, people instead came down with other (less severe) respiratory virus infections that were “filling the vacuum” that nature so abhors.

  • Mike Stevens

    Can we have your definition of a vaccination “expert”, Ruth?

    I’d really like to know, so I can be sure to rely only on their information in future.

  • You didn’t actually explain …$hit . . .and you know it. And everyone already knows the difference between attenuated virus/ whole cell vaccines and/or acellular vaccines. Act like a smart guy, but really you are an ignorant guy, pretending to be actually educated. 5 paragraphs of irrelevant bullshit, and you still have nothing. You talk in in circles and with a forked and deceptive tongue, just like Lucifer himself. So just admit it, that you can not explain it, and nor directly.

    How about that Gardasil? You should know that the Gardasil harm done issues are going to be what takes the entire vaccine industry down, and as to their lying corruption, and as well as the live DPT vaccine almost did, and if they had not received legal immunity from all lawsuits. You simply don’t like vaccine truth and reality, so called JGC and with zero real identity. How is the vaccination business going today? Killed any babies, yet?

  • JGC

    “You didn’t actually explain …$hit . . .and you know it”

    Actually, I just did. Our technology has improved to the point where we can now produce specific antigenic peptides and polysaccharides to be incorporated in vaccine formulations via gene expression in yeast and bacterial systems, rather than rely on whole cell vaccines.

    You might not have understood the explanation, but that isn’t at all the same thing.

    “How about that Gardasil?”
    How about it? What evidence can you offer demonstrating the risk associated with HPV vaccines like Gardasil exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to HPV infection?
    I mean, you do actually have some…don’t you?

  • It was the life destroying and un-recovered from impact of Gardasil and being previously healthy. You know as well as thousands of other personal accounts, and as the mothers of the daughters with those reports have put forth. How in complete denial sick are you, so called, JGC?

    . . . post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy? So you still think it is all only in their head, and no matter how many reports of it globally keep coming in? That suggests that you are in simply lying denial to the point of being, criminally insane?

    You have as well more than enough evidence in front of you to show that this is a serious situation and that clearly only 1 to 10% of the VAERS reports are ever filed. Warning the VAERS data base managers put forth? Really? We have all known of it and read it. You simply remain in your sick and personal denial of it all, so just face it. You can’t face the real vaccine truth. You can not face as well the seriousness of the level of corruption that goes on in regard to for profit vaccines. It is a multi-billion dollars in sales, pharma enterprise. They do not care how many die and they do not care how many are seriously harmed; nor globally. Maybe you should just simply, wake up?

    Study: Gardasil Risks Hidden by Vaccine Manufacturer and FDA Regulators
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2017/study-gardasil-risks-hidden-by-vaccine-manufacturer-and-fda-regulators/

    Viewpoints New Study: Vaccine Manufacturers and FDA Regulators Used Statistical Gimmicks to Hide Risks of HPV Vaccines
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2283859-new-study-vaccine-manufacturers-and-fda-regulators-used-statistical-gimmicks-to-hide-risks-of-hpv-vaccines/

  • JGC

    Not so much ‘instead’ I think’ : in years where there’s a good match between vaccines and dominant strains the total number of flu infections will decrease significantly, but the per centage of that smaller number caused by strains the vaccine doesn’t target will be greater than in years prior to vaccination or in years when there’s a poor match.

  • You were supposed to actually educate yourself before you replied; not just look at what the false vaccine propaganda provided for you. All of your twisted lies and regurgitation of the twisted denial that they have fed you, are for nothing.

    CDC Whistle Blower Full Audio
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlxdWfTLHH0&t=2048s

    Research References (on the MMR vaccine)
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

    And you give me one single study.

    This does not even include the horrendous list of non MMR related studies that show directly all of the other areas of vaccine harm that is done. You refuse to wake up. Get your nose into the study science, fool. You don’t even have a clue what is there, and because you refuse to.

  • JGC

    “It was the life destroying and un-recovered from impact of Gardasil and being previously healthy.”

    How exactly was this established as fact?

    ‘You know as well as thousands of other personal accounts, and as the mothers of the daughters with those reports have put forth.”

    How did those thousands of other mothers establish that the injuries they attribute to HPV vaccination actually were caused by the vaccines received, on any basis other than a post hoc ergo proper hoc logical fallacy? I remind you again that ‘after’ is not a synonym for ‘because of’, and that the plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘evidence’.

    “You have as well more than enough evidence in front of you to show that this is a serious situation and that clearly only 1 to 10% of the VAERS reports are ever filed.”

    Actually, no: I don’t (have evidence in front of me). What I have are anecdotal accounts and unsupported assertions that this must be the case.

    “You can’t face the real vaccine truth”
    Of course I can: I simply require that people demonstrate that what they claim to be ‘the real vaccine truth’ actually is true. You’re not even making the attempt, offering anecdote in lieu of evidence.
    Direct question, Lowell: do you believe that extraterrestrial visitors piloting technologically advanced vehicles routinely visit our planet to abduct random strangers and bring them aboard their craft for medical experimentation/physical examination (all of which, for some reason, seem to include a mandatory sigmoidoscopy)?
    After all, exactly the same type and quality of evidence supports this occurring s you insist I accept as evidence that vaccines cause ASD’s or that HPV vaccines are ‘life-destroying: anecdotal accounts and personal testimonials.
    If not, could you please explain to me the process by which you determine which bodies of anecdotal accounts you’ll accept as constituting evidence, and which you’ll reject as not constituting evidence?
    I trust it’s on some basis other than whether or not they support a preferred and predetermined conclusion on your part.

  • JGC

    I educated myself long before we ever began exchanging posts on Disqus, Lowell.

    If by “you gave me one single study’ you’re referring to Balzola et al, you actually gave me that study–I was pointing out it does not appear to even exist.

  • Your paragraph one and right out of the gate, makes you a LIAR. I could give you a list of studies that are longer in length than you are tall, fool. Wake up. If I can find them, then why can’t you? That is because you refuse to accept anything but the false vaccine propaganda, and only those junk science studies that have attempted to support it.

    As for doing the vaccine challenge that I suggested, that was already fully explained, and you know that you are a continued . . . COWARD. And it does not matter if you are of the age range that Gardasil is recommended; and you can still take it to prove that it is safe. More false excuses. And as a pharma vaccine shill you know that you can claim to all sorts of things that you know can not be proven, one way or the other. And so you in your mindless behavior are willing as well to take a shingles vaccine in which the maker is currently being sued for the serious side effects that have happened. Somehow I think you are lying and just making it up as you go. So do that on video footage of you getting vaccinated, and post it right here on vactruth? Oh gezz, this will not be just another cowardly excuse as to and about why you can’t reveal your identity, will it? And even though I have used my real identity, since 2009.

  • What about the long list of MMR vaccine harm related studies that you additionally see in front of you; do they not exist, either? You have not actually educated yourself on anything but the existing false vaccine propaganda. Just face it.

  • And so you are denying it all and simply because the doctors and Pediatricians refused to acknowledge it and to admit it.

    You can’t face it, and you REFUSE to face it; what has been done. That makes you an obviously evil piece of soul-less and heartless garbage; and do you even realize that? So if you had a daughter with that outcome, would you simply berate her that it was all only in her head? Would you as well demand that she be put on psychotropic medications for her Gardasil harm done, delusions? Or maybe corrupt CPS should come and take her away as all the harm done was falsely blamed on you as a parent? Not the first time that has happened in America.

    http://medicalkidnap.com/

    The below is clear and conclusive evidence of your own in denial insanity, by the way. How much more obvious could that be?

    [on any basis other than a post hoc ergo proper hoc logical fallacy? I remind you again that ‘after’ is not a synonym for ‘because of’, and that the plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘evidence’.]

    And by the way, we do not need to any longer only determine this by which bodies of anecdotal accounts constitute evidence; we have as well a bulwark of existing scientific studies that show evidence fr it all. And quit lying about having gone to Pubmed and searched for it. You accept nothing but what supports the false vaccine propaganda, and its agenda.

    So, where exactly are you working today? Go ahead and give us the details regarding your direct conflicts of interest? Aww, so sorry that you have to and need to hide all that; but the readers would likely be interested to know?

  • JGC

    What about them? Yes, it’s a long list–by a handful of authors who are I’m afraid significantly less than credible (can you say Yazbak, boys and girls?) None of them offers actual evidence demonstrating and association between MMR vaccination and ASD’s. Most argue in support of correlation and some in fact argue against causation–for example, MMR Immunization and Autism, Edwards and Baltzan, where you’ll find (bold for emphasis):

    Correlation, however, does not prove causation. The original report warned that the total frequencies of autism at the regional centers for developmental disabilities were not to be interpreted as incidence rates. There are many factors that contribute to an increase in the use of such centers. One obvious factor is availability, which probably increased as the number of centers increased. Another factor is the December 1988 release of the movie Rain Man, which is credited with removing much of the stigma associated with autism. A recent meta-analysis reports that increases in the incidence of autism are attributed to progressive broadening of the definition of autism, improved detection, and immigration. All such factors should be considered.

    A study that would truly help to reassure immunizers, and perhaps the public, would be one that showed a simultaneously increasing yearly incidence of autism in a developed country in which MMR vaccine was not introduced before 1995. The first question, in any event, is not whether MMR vaccination can lead to autism but whether early vaccination is a risk factor or whether the risk from MMR vaccination differs from that of univalent measles vaccine followed by MMR vaccine (as in France). We strongly believe that immunization in some form should be maintained.

    >

  • JGC

    Until there’s actual evidence in support of the claims, there is nothing there to deny.

    ‘And by the way, we do not need to any longer only determine this by which bodies of anecdotal accounts constitute evidence; we have as well a bulwark of existing scientific studies that show evidence fr it all.”

    Why then have you been unable to provide theses studies which supposedly demonstrate a causal association?

    “And quit lying about having gone to Pubmed and searched for it.”

    Interested lurkers can confirm this for themselves: go to PubMed and enter “Autistic Enterocolitis in childhood: the early evidence of the later Crohn’s disease in autistic adulthood?” in the search bar. PubMed will return
    “Search results
    Items: 0

    No documents match your search terms”

  • JGC

    I’m sure you’ve found articles; I question, however, your ability to distinguish between an article that present evidence supporting a causal association between vaccines and ASD”s and articles you only think support such an association.

    ‘And as a pharma vaccine shill you know that you can claim to all sorts of things that you know can not be proven, one way or the other.”

    Please provide evidence demonstrating I’m a shill (i.e., paid to author posts promoting vaccines or any other pharmaceutical product). I must assume you are in possession of such proof or you would not have made such an accusation.

  • We all know that, and no one is ever going to be impressed with that.

    Vaccines are still killing infants and small children. Not only that but destroying the health of one generation after another, and with that getting only worse and worse. How about if you ever actually …WOKE . . .UP . . . to reality, and the truth?

    As far as Gardasil I as well have been putting all that in front of you repeatedly, and to this point you have done nothing but ignore it. You are nothing but a sick and shameless, LIAR. And do you actually get off on your level of in denial sickness and repeated lies? And you are actually proud of that so upstanding endeavor? Obviously, so.

    Do you have any beliefs in a creator, and heaven and hell? Your an atheist? Life is actually short and death is sure; no one survives. If you were to be judged on what you replied with here on vactruth, where would that take you? You don’t even think about it, do you? One day it will be to late for you to repent; and you won’t be able to just blame your own mislead ignorance for it. You were informed of what was going on with toxic and known contaminated, vaccines.

  • Part 2:

    ……… [Just as providing lists of the ingredients found in vaccine formulations does nothing to show–even indirectly–that the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to the infectious diseases they protect against.]

    Really? And you would be mad and put off when the endless numbers of parents with vaccine injured children, did not believe you, and that there was said no evidence of the serious vaccine risks. And all that just because your BIG pharma mislead lack of any real health care education, told you so. It has to suck, to be you, JGC. So when are you going to wake up?

    Vaccine Ingredients and Manufacturer Information
    (alphabetical order by vaccine)
    https://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206

    Harmful Ingredients in Vaccines
    Vaccine Ingredients Given to Small Children

    Amount of aluminum adjuavnt in vaccines per dose

    Pneumococcal vaccine 0.125 mg
    • Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTaP) vaccine– 0.17-0.625 mg
    • Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccine– 0.225 mg
    • Hib/Hep B vaccine 0.225 mg
    • Hep A vaccine (for children) 0.225-0.25 mg
    • Hepatitis B vaccine (Hep B) 0.225-0.5 mg
    • Hep A/ Hep B vaccine 0.45 mg
    • DTaP/inactivated polio/ Hep B vaccine 0.85 mg
    • DTaP/inactivated polio/Hib vaccine 0.33 mg
    • Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine 0.225 mg-0.500 mg

    In the first 6 years of life your child potentially receives the following:

    • 17,500 mcg 2-phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)

    • 5,700 mcg aluminum (a known neurotoxin)

    • Unknown amounts of fetal bovine serum (aborted cow blood)

    • 801.6 mcg formaldehyde (carcinogen, embalming agent)

    • 23,250 mcg gelatin (ground up animal carcasses)

    • 500 mcg human albumin (human blood)

    • 760 mcg of monosodium L-glutamate (causes obesity & diabetis)

    • Unknown amounts of MRC-5 cells (aborted human babies)

    • Over 10 mcg neomycin (antibiotic)

    • Over 0.075 mcg polymyxin B (antibiotic)

    • Over 560 mcg polysorbate 80 (carcinogen)

    • 116 mcg potassium chloride (used in lethal injection to shut down the heart and stop breathing)

    • 188 mcg potassium phosphate (liquid fertilizer agent)

    • 260 mcg sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)

    • 70 mcg sodium borate (Borax, used for cockroach control)

    • 54,100 mcg of sodium chloride (table salt)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium citrate (food additive)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium hydroxide (Danger! Corrosive)

    • 2,800 mcg sodium phosphate (toxic to any organism)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium phosphate monobasic monohydrate (toxic to any organism)

    • 32,000 mcg sorbitol (Not to be injected)

    • 0.6 mcg streptomycin (antibiotic)

    • Over 40,000 mcg sucrose (cane sugar)

    • 35,000 mcg yeast protein (fungus)

    • 5,000 mcg urea (metabolic waste from human urine)

    • Other chemical residuals

    (From the book, “What The Pharmaceutical Companies Don’t Want You To Know About Vaccines” – By Dr Todd M. Elsner)

    TOXIC INGREDIENTS FOUND IN VACCINES

    aluminum hydroxide
    aluminum phosphate
    ammonium sulfate
    amphotericin B
    animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain, dog kidney, monkey kidney, chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg, calf (bovine) serum
    betapropiolactone
    fetal bovine serum
    formaldehyde
    formalin
    gelatin
    glycerol
    human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
    hydrolized gelatin
    mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate)
    monosodium glutamate (MSG)
    neomycin
    neomycin sulfate
    phenol red indicator
    phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
    potassiumdiphosphate
    potassium monophosphate
    polymyxin B
    polysorbate 20
    polysorbate 80
    porcine (pig) pancreatichydrolysate of casein
    residual MRC5 proteins
    sorbitol
    tri(n)butylphosphate
    VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
    washed sheep red blood

    Harmful Ingredients in Vaccines
    http://dangersofvaccines.com/harmful-ingredients-vaccines/

    Vaccine Ingredients – How Vaccines Are Made – Which Ingredients Are the Most Toxic
    http://www.drgreenmom.com/vaccines/vaccine-ingredients/

  • JGC

    Lowell, your evidence that any of the ingredients you list are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination would be what, exactly?
    Be specific.
    The fundamental organizing principle of toxicology, after all, is “the dose makes the poison”.

  • JGC

    “Vaccines are still killing infants and small children.”
    Your evidence that the risk of serious injury or death associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection would be what exactly?
    Measles for example killed 146,000 people worldwide in 2013–can you provide evidence showing the MMR vaccine killed as many or more people in that same year?

  • Cypher

    Sorry friend, but you can’t ignore me and go off bothering other ppl with your nonsense. I’ll follow you around until you start answering my questions. I think its time for another recap. Don’t you?

    1. You stated that vaccines in *2* cases eradicated disease.
    (See item number 4 for one example of a contradiction)

    2. You stated that Paul Offit did not claim that any infant can withstand up to 10,000 chemical injections at once.
    WRONG. Proof provided of a co-authored paper. You seem to avoid acknowledging this at all turns.

    3. You claimed that the ingredients of the MMR II vaccine are not chemicals but refused to copy/paste the ingredients as proof.

    4. You made the following claim: “Measles was declared eradicated in the United States, as the result of an effective immunization
    programs….”

    WRONG AND WRONG. Measles never went away and was that proved by a pro-vax website.

    Did I “misrepresent” anything? :-)

    I sincerely hope you’re in this for the log run. I’m just getting started.

  • No, what I said as well is that there exists a bulwark of studies that you refuse to acknowledge, and that they do exist. If you get those studies posted in front of you on a list as long as your right leg, then you shills say, oh no, I don’t accept that, and now in censorship, I demand to see one single study that shows it all. You will use any false excuse at all to ignore the evidence of vaccine truth and reality. You have as well proven that here now conclusively, and repeatedly.

    How about if you prove that you are not a shill? You refuse all common sense and vaccine truth information, and you use a fake character name with no identity. Tell us who you work for? That should give us a pretty good idea of if you have any standing at all to claim that you are not a paid shill. Perhaps you are just a sick member of the pro-vaccine establishment, and that refuses to accept vaccine reality. Maybe you even do it without any pay, and just to pacify your own denial. Either way you are a big pharma promoting vaccine shill with serious and obvious conflicts of interest. So prove me wrong?

  • What a load of lying bullshit!!! How do you even look in the mirror and/or sleep at night?

  • Oh, and so now you really resorted to getting IT techno fancy, and as if that is going to actually improve your vaccine promoting sick game, here.

    To try and claim to and to say that this long list of studies shows no scientific study evidence of harm done in regard to the MMR vaccine and its connection to triggering autism; makes you obviously the most reprehensible shill liar of all. And it takes more than simply attempts at just more false discreditation of the study authors. And just because the author actually believed in the value of safe vaccines, does not discredit the study itself, and in any way. It is not possible to make a safe vaccine, and in the consideration of how vaccines are currently made, and have been made. Wake up. You have about 75 studies left to go on that list, by the way. And in your mind it all yet only about Wakefield, and a known 1998 Lancet study?

    Research References
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

  • JGC

    “Oh, and so now you really resorted to getting IT techno fancy, and as if that is going to actually improve your vaccine promoting sick game, here.”

    I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

    ‘To try and claim to and to say that this long list of studies shows no scientific study evidence of harm done in regard to the MMR vaccine and its connection to triggering autism; makes you obviously the most reprehensible shill liar of all.”

    Okay: let’s pick a specific paper from the list (one not authored by Wakefield) and you can explain how it demonstrates the risk associated with MMR vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to measles, mumps and rubella.

    Do you want to choose, or shall I?

    ‘It is not possible to make a safe vaccine”

    What would you consider to represent a safe vaccine, Lowell, and why would it not be possible to make one?

  • JGC

    I’m not asking for one study that ‘shows it all’ just one study that shows something, that presents actual evidence suggesting that the risk associated with MMR vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection. I haven’t found such a study on your list.

  • Cypher

    Why are you ignoring me? Did I offend? :-))

  • In many cases a person would be better off going to a witch and voodoo doctor with a scalpel in on hand, and a meat saw in the other; than to ever go to a big pharma schooled doctor to diagnose, and treat you for anything at all. Worse yet to give you or your child, toxic and known as contaminated, vaccines. So you, Proponent, and JGC can all bow down now and get on the pharma shill floor, and send praises to your big pharma god, and for the toxic and contaminated vaccine holy water. Its a scandal even bigger than the sacrifices of children at Bohemian Grove.

    Harmful Ingredients in Vaccines
    Vaccine Ingredients Given to Small Children

    Amount of aluminum adjuavnt in vaccines per dose

    Pneumococcal vaccine 0.125 mg
    • Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTaP) vaccine– 0.17-0.625 mg
    • Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccine– 0.225 mg
    • Hib/Hep B vaccine 0.225 mg
    • Hep A vaccine (for children) 0.225-0.25 mg
    • Hepatitis B vaccine (Hep B) 0.225-0.5 mg
    • Hep A/ Hep B vaccine 0.45 mg
    • DTaP/inactivated polio/ Hep B vaccine 0.85 mg
    • DTaP/inactivated polio/Hib vaccine 0.33 mg
    • Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine 0.225 mg-0.500 mg

    In the first 6 years of life your child potentially receives the following:

    • 17,500 mcg 2-phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)

    • 5,700 mcg aluminum (a known neurotoxin)

    • Unknown amounts of fetal bovine serum (aborted cow blood)

    • 801.6 mcg formaldehyde (carcinogen, embalming agent)

    • 23,250 mcg gelatin (ground up animal carcasses)

    • 500 mcg human albumin (human blood)

    • 760 mcg of monosodium L-glutamate (causes obesity & diabetis)

    • Unknown amounts of MRC-5 cells (aborted human babies)

    • Over 10 mcg neomycin (antibiotic)

    • Over 0.075 mcg polymyxin B (antibiotic)

    • Over 560 mcg polysorbate 80 (carcinogen)

    • 116 mcg potassium chloride (used in lethal injection to shut down the heart and stop breathing)

    • 188 mcg potassium phosphate (liquid fertilizer agent)

    • 260 mcg sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)

    • 70 mcg sodium borate (Borax, used for cockroach control)

    • 54,100 mcg of sodium chloride (table salt)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium citrate (food additive)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium hydroxide (Danger! Corrosive)

    • 2,800 mcg sodium phosphate (toxic to any organism)

    • Unknown amounts of sodium phosphate monobasic monohydrate (toxic to any organism)

    • 32,000 mcg sorbitol (Not to be injected)

    • 0.6 mcg streptomycin (antibiotic)

    • Over 40,000 mcg sucrose (cane sugar)

    • 35,000 mcg yeast protein (fungus)

    • 5,000 mcg urea (metabolic waste from human urine)

    • Other chemical residuals

    (From the book, “What The Pharmaceutical Companies Don’t Want You To Know About Vaccines” – By Dr Todd M. Elsner)

    TOXIC INGREDIENTS FOUND IN VACCINES

    aluminum hydroxide
    aluminum phosphate
    ammonium sulfate
    amphotericin B
    animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain, dog kidney, monkey kidney, chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg, calf (bovine) serum
    betapropiolactone
    fetal bovine serum
    formaldehyde
    formalin
    gelatin
    glycerol
    human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
    hydrolized gelatin
    mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate)
    monosodium glutamate (MSG)
    neomycin
    neomycin sulfate
    phenol red indicator
    phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
    potassiumdiphosphate
    potassium monophosphate
    polymyxin B
    polysorbate 20
    polysorbate 80
    porcine (pig) pancreatichydrolysate of casein
    residual MRC5 proteins
    sorbitol
    tri(n)butylphosphate
    VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
    washed sheep red blood

    Harmful Ingredients in Vaccines
    http://dangersofvaccines.com/harmful-ingredients-vaccines/

    Vaccine Ingredients – How Vaccines Are Made – Which Ingredients Are the Most Toxic
    http://www.drgreenmom.com/vaccines/vaccine-ingredients/

  • JGC

    I replied: I given you the answers you asked for–you simply didn’t like them.

  • Cypher

    So you said. Kindly copy/paste them. I don’t see your answers. This strategy won’t work with me chief. Show us that you know what you’re talking about since you’re clearly the expert on medieval chemical injections.

  • How impressive? Your link shows.

    Fatal error: Unknown: Cannot use output buffering in output buffering display handlers in Unknown on line 0

  • Ron Roy

    If the MEDICAL SYSTEM in this country, and many others, didn’t worship at the altar of the pharmaceutical companies 75% of their studies would be on nutrition. Our bodies function on nutrients not drugs.

  • Eeeeww? Big pharma petrochemical junk science medicine, good; real cellular nutrition and naturopathic actually healing health care, is bad? Just stay a sheople; as misleading big pharma needs the continued billion dollar, profits.

    PHARMA DEATH CLOCK

    TOTAL DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE JANUARY 1, 2000…

    BIG PHARMA’S CHEMICAL WARFARE ON HUMANITY DWARFS THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS KILLED BY ALL WORLD WARS AND ACTS OF TERRORISM COMBINED…

    While drug companies profit billions, people are dying by the millions.

    http://pharmadeathclock.com/

    MEDICINE KILLS MILLIONS (direct data and statistics)
    http://medicinekillsmillions.com/

    Conventional Medicine is the Leading Cause of Death
    https://draxe.com/conventional-medicine-is-the-leading-cause-of-death/

  • Brian

    JGC is correct. Perhaps you don’t understand the definitions correctly.

    Measles was eradicated from the USA about fifteen years ago, and on both American continents in recent years, due in large part to effective vaccination campaigns.

    This doesn’t mean that outbreaks can’t occur, but rather that there’s no continuous endemic transmission within the region. The virus can still be imported from endemic regions and cause outbreaks.

  • And this is just one of many sources to start learning. Thank you, Ron!!!!

    You do not have to be a vegetarian, but you can learn a lot about need cellular nutrition, here. And if you can afford it go to a chiropractor, when needed, do it.
    http://www.myhdiet.com/

  • Ron Roy

    The polio epidemic was almost over when the vaccine came out so in order to
    inflate the numbers the medical mafia started calling all diseases that were
    similar as polio. Then after everyone was vaccinated they went back into calling
    those other diseases what they really were to make it look like the vaccine
    worked. That vaccine was contaminated with 40 different microorganism that
    didn’t belong there on of them was Simian Virus40 a cancer causing virus that is
    now part of our genome. Since only 1 or 2% of the people diagnosed with polio
    had any residual paralysis that was a lousy trade off. Eliminating sugars and
    taking a few grams of vitamin C per day is just as effective at preventing
    polio.

  • Ron Roy

    WOW you found one. Well I guess that was an epidemic, according to your standards, I stand corrected. ( sarcasm )

  • Yes you are. That is what all of you shills claim to expect. And if you actually wanted that, you would have done your own unbiased and independent research, and found it yourself . . .directly. You as well just had nearly 100 studies on the MMR vaccine ,directly in front of you. All of them directly showing and replicating the same and similar findings as that in the known Wakefield 1998 Lancet study. There is nothing you will not ignore, and there is nothing you will not deny, and there is nothing you will not lie about. The direct evidence for that, and the obvious proof of that; is now directly right in front of us. Deny it all you want.

    The Pro-Vax Argument Lost Me When They Couldn’t Answer These Questions:
    http://journalistsunleashed.com/pro-vax-argument-lost/

  • You have, I would guess close to 100 studies in front of you regarding the harm of the MMR vaccine; and instead of focusing on that directly, as a typical shill, you ask me to pick one paper. You do that as well after claiming that you see nothing at all there that shows any serious issue with the MMR vaccine. You are just playing again the well known sick and in denial, shill player games.

    I said it is not possible to make a safe vaccine, so why would I present a formulation to make a safe vaccine? All vaccines are toxic and contaminated. There is no way to make a safe vaccine. What part of that do you not yet understand? You can not circumvent existing creation and as well the miraculous self healing human body, making it more healthy and resistant to illness, by adding injected toxicity that as well entirely creates as well and unnatural immune response. So when are you going to ever wake up? Your comprehension of the terms doing more harm than good, simply does not exist.

  • Thomas Mohr

    Actually, the Germans *did* a retrospective study vacinated vs unvaccinated children, very similar to your plan. A huge one, discussed and referenced here: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/03/11/for-the-anti-vaccinationists-out-there-t/

    You will not like the results. Not at all, because they are shouting LIAR, LIAR !!! into your face.

  • You have to this point refused the evidence. And the US is not worldwide. No one as well gives a crap what the WHO misleads you with. False fear mongering no longer cuts it, and nor does falsely blaming the un-vaccinated for anything that they claimed happened.

    I have not had a vaccine in now over 47 years, and millions of adults were never re-vaccinated since childhood, where are the outbreaks, fool? You refuse to get it.

    It seems to me that natural immunity to polio was a bigger player than vaccine derived so called herd immunity ever was. Then add all the issues with the spraying of DDT the time and whole scale removal of tonsils; I would take my chances with natural immunity at any point in time.

    Clinical Features – Polio

    The incubation period for nonparalytic poliomyelitis is 3-6 days. For the onset of paralysis in paralytic poliomyelitis, the incubation period usually is 7 to 21 days.

    The response to poliovirus infection is highly variable and has been categorized on the basis of the severity of clinical presentation.

    Up to 72% of all polio infections in children are asymptomatic. Infected persons without symptoms shed virus in the stool and are able to transmit the virus to others.

    Approximately 24% of polio infections in children consist of a minor, nonspecific illness without clinical or laboratory evidence of central nervous system invasion. This clinical presentation is known as abortive poliomyelitis, and is characterized by complete recovery in less than a week. This is characterized by a low grade fever and sore throat.

    Nonparalytic aseptic meningitis (symptoms of stiffness of the neck, back, and/or legs), usually following several days after a prodrome similar to that of minor illness, occurs in 1%–5% of polio infections in children. Increased or abnormal sensations can also occur. Typically these symptoms will last from 2 to 10 days, followed by complete recovery.

    Outcomes of poliovirus infection

    outcomes of poliovirus infection chart, as described in the clinical features section

    Fewer than 1% of all polio infections in children result in flaccid paralysis. Paralytic symptoms generally begin 1 to 18 days after prodromal symptoms and progress for 2 to 3 days. Generally, no further paralysis occurs after the temperature returns to normal. The prodrome may be biphasic, especially in children, with initial minor symptoms separated by a 1- to 7-day period from more major symptoms. Additional prodromal signs and symptoms can include a loss of superficial reflexes, initially increased deep tendon reflexes and severe muscle aches and spasms in the limbs or back. The illness progresses to flaccid paralysis with diminished deep tendon reflexes, reaches a plateau without change for days to weeks, and is usually asymmetrical. Strength then begins to return. Patients do not experience sensory losses or changes in cognition.

    Read more:
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html

    The polio vaccine: a critical assessment of its arcane history, efficacy,
    and long-term health-related consequences
    http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf

    Big Pharma and Big Profits: The Multibillion Dollar Vaccine Market
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/big-pharma-and-big-profits-the-multibillion-dollar-vaccine-market/5503945

    A FRONTLINE NURSE’S VIEW OF THE VACCINE DAMAGE COVER-UP

    Pediatricians often say that they have never seen a vaccine reaction before. Most adverse vaccine reactions are in the emergency room department, though. Additionally, many doctors and nurses do not even know how to recognize adverse vaccine reactions. And as we will see, there is a lot of cover-up when it comes to vaccine reactions.

    This is a comment made by an ER nurse.

    “As an E.R. nurse, I have seen the cover up. Where do you think kids go when they have a vac­cine reac­tion? They go to the E.R. They come to me. I can­not even begin to guess how many times over the years I have seen vac­cine reac­tions come through my E.R. With­out any exag­ger­a­tion, it has to be counted in hun­dreds. Some­times it seemed like it was one or two cases in a sin­gle shift, every shift, for weeks. Then I would get a lull, and I wouldn’t catch one for a week or two, then I’d catch another case per night for a cou­ple weeks. This was common.

    Read more:
    http://healthyfamiliesforgod.com/2015/11/er-nurse-shares-experiences-vaccine-reactions/

    Shedding- ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO (and counting) scientific studies on vaccines and SHEDDING:
    http://medscienceresearch.com/shedding/

    Recently Vaccinated Shedding and Injuring Others
    http://medscienceresearch.com/recently-vaccinated-shedding-and-injuring-others/

    Med Science Research
    There are thousands of scientific studies in the medical literature on the dangers of vaccines.
    http://medscienceresearch.com/

    Bombshell: Top CDC Whistle Blower: We Were Ordered to Cover Up Vaccine-Autism Link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-u0UnOF5xU

    Vaccine Culture War Myth Number 1 (NVIC)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wWFNoIT1Ek

    Vaccine Culture War Myth Number 2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnaMVRQrdsM

    Vaccine Culture War Myth Number 3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsT7Ia8Hpw

    Vaccine Culture War Myth Number 4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYVhuRjb0c

    Vaccine Culture War Myth Number 5
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_KvXzuBxvY

    The Official Definition of a Vaccine Shill: #vaxshill
    http://paraven.net/the-official-definition-of-a-vaccine-shill-vaxshill/

    Provax Quacks

    Since the belief in vaccines is more like faith and religion than it is science, we thought we’d present the Vaccinology 10 Commandments as we see them:

    1. Correlation doth not equal Causation (unless it defends the Sacred and Holy Vaccines).
    2. It is NEVER the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. Any injuries associated with the Sacred and Holy Vaccine must be coincidence, or a lie.
    3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Holy Vaccine in vain. Thou shalt not question the Holy Writings that defend the Sacred Vaccine.
    4. Thou shalt not hold any medical procedure above the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. Only the Sacred and Holy Vaccine can perform the miracles claimed.
    5. Thou must always follow the Vaccine Schedule, for the Sacred Vaccine is a jealous God.
    6. Honor thy Offit and thy Salk, for they are the prophets of the Sacred and Holy Vaccine.
    7. Thou must always trust all studies that are done by the makers of the Sacred and Holy Vaccine. They have no interest in profit, only in the health and livelihood of their congregation.
    8. Thou must always take the holy sacrament of Vaccination. Any who does not Vaccinate, or who question the holy sacrament, must be called a heretic.
    9. Diseases that were once benign must become deadly once a Sacred Vaccine is made for them.
    10. The Sacred and Holy Vaccine is always safe and effective.

    https://provaxquacks.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/the-vaccinology-10-commandments/

  • Where is your scientific study evidence that they are safe? You have nothing, but your own denial. You might as well admit that for you, nothing would ever be enough evidence. You are a vaccine shill, and that is what they do; deny it all and only create more intended disruption and distraction. You already know that you are going to lie about it and come back in and reply that there is nothing there, and no matter what.

    Vaccine Papers
    An Objective Look at Vaccine Dangers
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

  • shay simmons

    Boys and Girls, let’s play – SPOT THE GOALPOST SHIFTS, all inconsistencies courtesy of our very own Ron Roy.

    Took your advise and I walked through 3 different cemeteries ( in Berlin NH ) and I found 4 gravestones out of hundreds were someone had died before the age of ten.

    I did and so far after looking at over 500 headstones no child died from measles,polio,mumps,chicken pox,pertussis,or even smallpox. The links I was provided with, courtesy of vaccine shill Proponent, gave info. on the cause of death.

    If you would have completed your research you would have seen what these babies / infants died of. Her are the results of a little over 500 obituaries I’ve gone through so far: 1died of epilepsy 3 were stillborn 1 ( this is weird ) excessive fat of the mother and laceration of the cervix 1 died of malnutrition 4 died of cholera( 3 from the same family ) 1 died bronchial pneumonia 1 died of acute enteritis 3 died in childbirth. Where oh where are the ones that died because of an epidemic?

    Proponent gave me links to these local cemeteries and the cause of death is listed on the same page as the picture of the tombstone. I’ve gone through over 800 so far no record of anyone dying of childhood diseases.

    Died from what afire ( which was common in the late 1800s and early 1900s ) or getting trampled by horses or foul play ( yes that happened more often that people today would believe ) or some other UNKNOWN causes.

    WOW you found one. Well I guess that was an epidemic, according to your standards, I stand corrected. ( sarcasm )

  • That obviously was already done decades ago, and all of it was ignored by the pharma only promoting powers that be. Even polio was cured by the use of IV vitamin C. The standard encapsulated liposomal forms of vitamin C sold today provide for levels of vitamin C that are near to equal that of the former IV vitamin C. Yet that as well, is all ignored. But the FDA and pharma would rather just let people die, than to ever provide for any real cures, which compete with their monopolized and mafia style control of it all, and as well all of the information that the public receives from them. Their corruption is at a criminal level of existence. .

  • AutismDadd

    ORAC??? David Gorski the Shill Messiah? Scraping the bottom of the barrel Thomas.

  • AutismDadd

    Projection..

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. In other words if you manipulate facts, change definitions and stir in some dishonesty you can make any bogus claim you want.

  • So the cancer industries slash, and burn with chemo and radiation, is a real cure all, and the only cure all? You should learn what real health care quackery, actually means.

    Stanford Researchers Say Women are Being Scared into Mastectomies With ‘Fake Science’ for Profit
    http://www.healthfreedoms.org/stanford-researchers-say-women-are-being-scared-into-mastectomies-with-fake-science-for-profit/

    Breast cancer BOMBSHELL: Women being CONNED into mastectomy surgery by doctors who SCARE them with false genetic testing results, warn Stanford medical researchers
    http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-04-17-women-being-conned-into-mastectomy-surgery-by-doctors-who-scare-them-with-false-genetic-testing-results.html

    Physicians’ misunderstanding of genetic test results may hamper mastectomy decisions for breast cancer patients
    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/04/misunderstanding-genetic-test-results-may-increase-double-mastectomies.html

    Cancer Cure 40 Years Ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Gy8fAixqY

    Millions Falsely Treated for Cancer says National Cancer Institute Report

    Conventional cancer treatments once again shown to be a leading cause of cancer

    These are shocking admissions, considering that NCI is a government-funded agency that tends to favor the conventional cancer diagnosis and treatment model, even though it has been shown to be a failure. But even worse is the inference that untold millions of healthy people have been treated with poison and radiation for conditions they never even had, which likely caused many of them to develop real cancer and even die as a result.

    As it turns out, the entire concept of “early diagnosis” itself is fundamentally flawed, since many of the methods used to diagnose fail to differentiate between benign and malignant cancer cells. This means that many people who are falsely diagnosed with cancer will end up developing cancer anyway, as a result of getting treatment for cancers they did not have, a phenomenon that proves the absurdity of the entire model.

    Read more:
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/millions-wrongly-treated-cancer-national-cancer-institute-panel-confirms
    https://alignlife.com/articles/breast-cancer/millions-falsely-treated-for-cancer-says-national-cancer-institute-report

    Misdiagnosed Cancer Not Uncommon
    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131047

    Misdiagnosis of Cancer
    http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132213

  • AutismDadd

    What? No denial?

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn

  • AutismDadd

    Likely, but Big Corporate just says “Oh government, can we settle out of court so no one serves prison time”?. Government: Why sure and lets also make fines and compensation a mere fraction of you profits OK?

  • AutismDadd

    No its based on injuries and death fool

  • AutismDadd

    What rubbish. So one case and you want us to believe it happens often.

  • AutismDadd

    Rubbish. More apples vs oranges.

  • AutismDadd

    You have the manual memorized

  • AutismDadd

    I’m with Lowell. Payment isn’t the real evidence, your behavior is.

  • AutismDadd

    Meaningless babble

  • AutismDadd

    You must be quite stupid. Here we go again with thousands of parental reports for Gardasil alone. More vaccine reactions causing death and illness. Not autism in this case, but chronic fatigue and worse. The pattern can not be denied.

  • AutismDadd

    Bring me a bucket

  • AutismDadd

    Cut and paste from some well practiced vaccine carpet bagger…

  • AutismDadd

    He does that when losing an argument.

  • AutismDadd

    Too many big words like importance and strategy?

  • AutismDadd

    Wow the next Stephen Hawking

  • You are nothing but in a severe state of big pharma induced, denial.

    We need to end the false vaccine propaganda brainwashing, that has gone on for now endless decades. Never vaccinate, ever. I have not been vaccinated in now over 47 years. Millions of adults were never re-vaccinated since childhood; where are the epidemics? Obviously, vaccine derived and so called herd immunity, has never existed.

    Take a look?

    And yet again, no where here in this article piece, does it mention vaccines, and which vaccines are the direct cause of the known inflammation, and all of the rest of it. Of course it is politically and medically incorrect to blame the load of vaccines children are getting, for anything at all. Just like a known Johns Hopkins study found brain inflammation in those with autism, while yet never connecting vaccines and which is that said inflammation caused and mostly by the vaccine aluminum adjuvants, and that combined with multiple vaccine caused unnatural levels of immune system stimulated cytokine activity. The result is over stimulation of the brains microglia cells, and with chronic and resultant levels of brain inflammation. How simple and easy is this to understand? Yet they refuse to get it. Dr Russel Blaylock has been stating this for years and as well several independent studies have as well shown this situation to be vaccine caused.

    And here we go, again.

    Dr. Chang believes PANS could be part of the overall increase in autoimmune disease and psychiatric disorders in children over the past few decades.

    “We have more kids who have special needs than ever before,” large, objective increases in bipolar, autism, and other psychiatric problems, as well as increases in psoriasis, nut allergies, and other autoimmune issues. “What causes it is harder to say, but there has been a change for sure in kids and their immune system development that does affect the brain, and has probably led to more neuropsychiatric disturbances,” he said.

    “No one talks about it. Everyone thinks that it’s some sort of pharmaceutical industry conspiracy” to sell more drugs by increasing scrutiny of children. “I think it’s caused by something in the environment interacting with genetics,” whether it’s infections, toxins, or something else. “We don’t know. Any kind of inflammation can be a trigger” and “we know inflammation” is key to “many psychiatric symptoms. I do think there’s something going on with kids over the last 30 years,” he said.’

    –Dr. Kiki Chang (Stanford PANS Clinic)
    Publish date: February 9, 2017
    Clinical Psychiatry News

    Brain Inflammation A Hallmark Of Autism, Large-Scale Analysis Shows
    http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/brain_inflammation_a_hallmark_of_autism_large_scale_analysis_shows

    https://hub.jhu.edu/2014/12/15/autism-brain-inflammation/

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141210073857.htm

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/286870.php

    J Immunol. 2008 Sep 15;181(6):3755-9. Cutting edge: alum adjuvant stimulates inflammatory dendritic cells through activation of the NALP3 inflammasome.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18768827

    Hypothesis Neuro-inflammation, blood-brain barrier, seizures and autism http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/8/1/168
    Research The NALP3 inflammasome is involved in neurotoxic prion peptide-induced microglial activation
    http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/9/1/73/abstract

    Ann Neurol. 2005 Jan;57(1):67-81.Neuroglial activation and neuroinflammation in the brain of patients with autism.
    Vargas DL, Nascimbene C, Krishnan C, Zimmerman AW, Pardo CA.
    Source: Department of Neurology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, 600 North Wolfe Street, Baltimore, MD 21287, USA.

    http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/neuroimmunopath/pdf/4%20Neuroglial%20activation%20and%20neuroinflammation%20in%20the%20brain%20of%20patients%20with%20autism.pdf

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155

    Vaccine Papers
    An Objective Look at Vaccine Dangers
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

  • Fata and as well vaccine shill blogger David Gorski, were directly connected at and through the same facility.

    Professor David Gorski, a well-known online character assassin masquerading as a science defender – Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line, David Gorski, MD, alias “Orac””
    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/11/internet-trolls-attack-anyone-resisting-vaccine-party-line/

    Pro-vaccine shill Dr. David Gorski, linked to cancer fraudster, in cahoots with pharma to develop lucrative autism drug
    http://www.naturalnews.com/053706_David_Gorski_autism_drug_Karmanos_Cancer_Center.html

    Part 1: Dirty Vaccines: Every Human Vaccine Tested Was Contaminated With Metals and Debris in New Study
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/dirty-vaccines-every-human-vaccine-tested-was-contaminated-metals-and-debris-new-

    Part 2: Dirty Vaccines: What the Industry Knows and Isn’t Telling You
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/dirty-vaccines-part-two-what-industry-knows-and-isnt-telling-you

  • Ben

    He died at age 93, and most of his work was in cardiovascular disease. Not cancer.

    Too much vitamin C can interfere with electron transport. It is used to create free radicals—with iron—in mitochondrial system in vitro. Vitamin C consumption should only be used at about 2 grams. Better yet, it should be consumed within fruit.

    Prostate cancer’s main cause is prostaglandins, formed from linoleic acid.

    But there is very convincing evidence that some types of cardiovascular disease is actually subclinical scurvey, I have read dozens of scientific articles on this. This is certainly the truth.

    George Willis proved this even before Pauling had. What Linus Pauling says has way more credibility than the dorky Johns Hopkins researcher that you had linked.

    To understand this fully you have to read about the structure of lipoproteins, particularly the lysine-binding domain of Lp(a) and fibrinogen/fibrin. You also need to read about ascorbate and collagen synthesis.

    Ascorbate is certainly capable of preventing that form of cardiovascular disease, but there are others. Calcification can simply be prevented by taking vitamin K, a coenzyme used to carboxylate glutamate residues in Gla proteins. This is a post-translational modification that results in gamma-carboxyglutamate residues which strongly chelate calcium and keep them from precipitating.

    The supplements to avoid are iron and retinol.

    Best is simply to eat lots of fruit and vegetables. This way, you won’t need to take vitamins.

    They are called vitamins for a reason. Without them, you get a disease. This follows from definition. Your Orwellian propaganda is an insult to reason.

  • shay simmons

    You keep getting asked how many cases of cancer have been medically confirmed as being caused by SV40…and you never answer.

    Why?

  • How about if we imagined this as well? Good health does not come from the end of a toxic and contaminated vaccines, needle.

    Global Vaccine Market to reach USD 60 Billion, by the end of year 2022
    http://www.renub.com/global-vaccine-market-to-reach-usd-60-billion-by-the-end-of-year-2022-49-nd.php

    Worldwide $20 Billion Adult Vaccines Market, 2022
    https://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2017/07/11/IO38827

  • Frederic Chopin

    Gorski works at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute. Fata never worked there. Fata was a medical oncologist. Gorski is a surgical oncologist. He also has a PhD in cellular physiology.You apparently are a machine operator.

  • They were all in that directly connected, and the same system of administration, so stop lying about it.

  • Frederic Chopin

    Prove they worked together then. You won’t.
    And if you’re no longer a machine operator tell us what you do? You won’t.

  • Read the existing articles; I am not here to educate you on your denial and persistent ignorance. And I do not need to tell anyone anything, and that does not even use a real name and nor identity, themselves. What do you do, is a much more applicable question and as well in regard to your obvious bias, and conflicts of interest.

  • Thomas Mohr

    So you did not read the study. Very well. It still cries LIAR, LIAR into your face. The results are essentially that there is NO difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated children healthwise, with one expectable exception. The diseases the vaccinated are vaccinated against. I.o.W. your claims are lies.

  • Thomas Mohr

    Untested vaccines ? Where did you dream that ? Vaccines *are* tested. Period.

  • Thomas Mohr

    It is YOU who is stupid here. Let me explain something to you. Correlation =/= Causation, a principle you are apparently do not get. Parental reports are NO proof whatsoever. Studies are. These, however, yu don’t dare to cite because you very well know you would be ear-cuffed left and right. Twice.

  • Mike Stevens

    ooohhh…Scary chemikulz!!!

    Over 80% of them by weight are either sodium chloride (table salt), gelatin, or sucrose (sugar).
    My, the horror!

  • sabelmouse

    it’s the economy.

  • Ron Roy

    Your bosses are going to tell you ( after seeing this ). ” You don’t know when to keep your mouth shut do you?”

    SV40—A Human Carcinogen
    ”By 1999, numerous pathologists, microbiologists,
    and virologists throughout the world had detected SV40 in a variety of
    human cancers such as brain tumors[66] including medulloblastomas,[67] bone cancers,[68] and mesotheliomas[69] a fatal lung cancer. These were the very same cancers that were created when SV40 was introduced into animals.[70]
    The advent of Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) technology that could
    identify the genetic code of specific strands of DNA demonstrated with
    precision that it was this monkey virus that was being detected in human
    cancers and no other.[71] Moreover, the rates of these particular cancers had steadily increased over the last few decades.[72]
    The question that had been left unanswered for almost four decades now
    faced scientists again—was SV40 responsible for causing or contributing
    to human cancers?

    Over the last forty years since its discovery,
    SV40 had become one of the most widely studied and best understood
    viruses in microbiology.[73] It was routinely used to create human cancers in the laboratory in order to test cancer therapies.[74]
    In addition, it is now known how this virus caused cancer on a
    molecular level. After careful study documented in peer reviewed
    publications, leaders in SV40 research announced that SV40 was a class
    2A human carcinogen.[75]”

    http://www.sv40foundation.org/cpv-link.html

  • Ron Roy

    Childhood diseases: meaning as in the ones there are vaccines against. We don’t have vaccines against( yet ) epilepsy, being stillborn, excessive fat of the mother, malnutrition etc. SO MY STATEMENT STANDS THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF ANY EPIDEMIC IN MY AREA FORM THE LATE 1800S TO THE MID 1900S. Who’s the one tap dancing Shady? No DEADLY EPIDEMICS! Now shall I list all those that I know suffered irreparable harm and deaths from vaccines in just my area?

  • Ron Roy

    Thanks Lowell. I’m somewhat familiar with plant based diets because I once followed the advice of a friend , who cured himself of MS by following a diet promoted by a system called Natural Hygiene. I love to workout and I lost way too much weight and strength following that diet. A price I’m not willing to pay. I have to stay in shape in order to be able to back up my mouth. lol

  • shay simmons

    The point – which all of your sallyrandification can’t hide – is that you claim you examined 800 records and didn’t find a single child who died of a common childhood disease.

    I used the same link and found one in the first 40 records.

    Eyes going bad on you, Ron?

  • shay simmons
  • Mike Stevens

    News to you Ron – there are vaccines for pneumonia and enteritis (rotaviral), and if you think cholera deaths were not part of some infectious outbreak, you are stupider than I thought.

  • Mike Stevens

    Interestingly I found the New Hampshire gravestone of Franklin Pierce, 14th POTUS.
    If anyone would be safe from infection you’d think it would be his family… yet all 3 of his kids died, one as a neonate (cause unclesr, but could have been sepsis), and one from “epidemic typhus”.
    http://www.presidentsusa.net/piercegravesite.html

  • JGC

    Nothing in my post has been cut and pasted, AD.

  • 655321

    Exactly. No average real world average joe has the time or motivation to spends hours daily here pushing products and misinformation. The funny thing this they think are still fooling people.

  • JGC

    “We don’t have vaccines against( yet ) epilepsy, being stillborn, excessive fat of the mother, malnutrition etc.”

    And why would that be, I wonder?

    Oh, that’s right! None of these are infectious diseases.

  • JGC

    Ron, if you’re going to cut and paste without attribution at least take time to clean up the formatting.

  • 655321

    Saw this, helps explain in moron terms the deluge of paid internet posters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFt-B6i80w

  • Frederic Chopin

    Classic Hubbs non-response.

  • shay simmons

    If Ron didn’t see it, it doesn’t count.

  • sabelmouse

    i found some of what i thought were symptoms of my chronic illness disappear when i went back to omnivory after 30 years of veg. especially high sat fat.
    initially plant based did me good but i think that was more cutting out junk than cutting out animal foods.

  • AutismDadd

    Average people would be curious and supportive. They next time the subject comes up, you’ll see how an average person does.

  • AutismDadd

    plagiarized then

  • JGC

    What makes you think the content of the post Is plagiarized?

  • AutismDadd

    Right Colonel Klink. And people involved in car accidents can’t be witnesses. How bloody stupid.

  • AutismDadd

    Gorski is a vaccine shill with tie$$$ to the industry. Tell you what, you read Wakefield’s study and agree with it and I’ll agree with Gorski (bring me a bucket)

  • AutismDadd

    They are repetitive and I’ve read it somewhere. Plus its far too sophisticated to come from you.

  • Thomas Mohr

    Actually I have to thank you. Recently I had a discussion with a vaccine sceptic. I showed him your posts to demonstrate how illiterate and idiotic anti vaxxers really are. Your farts where very convincing, however in a way you really do not like.

  • AutismDadd

    Partly. Its also critical of parents and those with vaccine safety concerns. Not to mention who are these 3 bozos?

  • AutismDadd

    What a blatant liar you are. Shows pro-vacs lie when they run out of bullshit

  • AutismDadd

    Ploper has no real purpose in life so he does the grammar police thing.

  • AutismDadd

    Yes, on consumers

  • AutismDadd

    More envy. I guess pro-vacs lack in that area, and need to grow a pair and stop being afraid of everything.

  • JGC

    Here are your answers, Lowell:

    Why is a newborn baby vaccinated on day 1 of life against a
    disease that is primarily transmitted sexually and through needles in drug users?

    Several reasons: because hep B is not only transmitted by sexual activity or intravenous drug use but also by exchange of
    fluids like blood and saliva (think skinned knees, scratches and bites); because the majority of people with chronic hep B are aymptomatic; because 90% of hildren who are infected prior to age 11 are seen to develop a chronic hep B nfection; because if the mother is infected administration of the vaccine to her baby within 12 hours after birth is 95% effective at preventing transmission of the disease from the mother to the newborn, etc.

    Why are babies given vaccines to produce antibodies when they don’t produce antibodies until after the age of 3 to 6 months?

    Because despite being unable to produce antibodies prior to 3 to 6 months, the immune system is capable of learning to respond
    to antigens prior to 3 months, preparing it to produce antibodies against the diseases vaccinated for at 3 months.

    Why is the govt telling parents to delay breast feeding and get more vaccines when breast-fed babies produce higher levels of antibodies?

    See PMID: 20442687

    Why are vaccine manufacturers not held responsible when their product injures your child?

    Vaccine manufacturers are held responsible should their products harm a child as the result of manufacturing or labeling defects. All other claims of injury are resolved through the VICP program, a
    no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system established after lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers and healthcare providers threatened to causes shortages in vaccines critical to the nation’s public health (even though the lawsuits were in all but a handful of cases dismissed the cost of constantly defending against suits was had become economically unsustainable).

    Why have no double blind, placebo, randomized controlled trials been done on any vaccines?

    Because it would be completely unethical to conduct such a prospective study: no IRB on the planet would approve one.
    Fortunately the same informationmay be (and has been) obtained via retrospective epidemiological studies, which are ethical to perform.

    Why is the world following the US when they are the most vaccinated population on the planet with the highest rates of infant deaths/SIDS in the western world?

    Because there is absolutely no evidence linking routine childhood vaccination to an increased risk of infant mortality or SIDS.

    Why are disease outbreaks occurring in populations with 90%+ vaccination rates?

    Because for many infectious diseases (such as measles) even 90%+ rate of vaccine uptake can be insufficient to result in herd immunity, and even in areas with overall compliance rates of 90% or more there can exist some communities where rates are far lower (e.g. within the Somali community in Minnesota which has just experienced a measles outbreak).

    Why are kids vaccinated against these diseases still catching and spreading them?

    Because vaccines are not 100% effective at causing all individuals to generate protectie antibody titers. One dose of the measles vaccine, for example, is about 93% effective while two doses are about 97% effective. In a large population 3% can represent a sizable number of vaccinated yet unprotected individuals.

    Why are we scared of non-fatal illnesses that train a child’s immune system how to behave on this planet?

    We’re not: the vaccines on the recommended schedule are directed against illnesses that have been seen to cause death, including measles which–instead of ‘training a child’s immune system’–wipes out immune memory for up to two years following infection, leaving them vulnerable to other infectious diseases.

    Why are vaccine manufacturers allowed to cut down on antigen and insert cheap and nasty toxic additives that aggravate the injection site?

    More antigen does not equate with better immunogenicity. No ingredients found in vaccine formulations are toxic or otherwise harmful (regardless of cost) at exposure levels acheivable as the result of routine vaccination. Irritation at the site of injection is a mild
    and transient adverse effect, such that consideration of relative risk remains firmly in favor of vaccination.

    Why do we need multi-dose vaccines if the number 1 priority of vaccine manufacturers is your child’s safety?

    Because to achieve an effective response in the largest number of people possible more than one dose of a vaccine may be required (see above regarding the difference in efficacy of one versus two doses of the measles vaccine) and because there is no evidence indicating that multidose vaccines are associated with greater risk than single dose vaccines.

    Why will no doctor sign a written guarantee for your child’s safety prior to vaccinating them with a product they insist you have?

    For the same reason no doctor would sign a written guarantee for a patient’s safety prior to providing them antibiotics or analgesics: any intervention that is biologically active—i.e., that actually does something to the body–possesses an intrinsic risk of causing an adverse reaction or event.

  • JGC

    You’ve probably read it in one of my other posts, given the anti-vax tendency to keep offering the same along-rebutted arguments over and over again.

  • JGC

    “Injected toxicity does not produce resistance to illness and the chronic health disorders”

    Your evidence that any of the ingredients found in vaccine formulations are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination would be what, Lowell?

    Oh, wait–that’s right! You don’t have any.

  • Thomas Mohr

    You have no idea how much you damage your cause. You are the best argument for mandatory vaccination. If one shows vaccine sceptics which community the join (i.e. YOU) most of them think twice – and refuse to join your lunacy. In so far you are doing a great job.

    Finally, ad hominens is the only way you can counter our arguments. At least three experts have called you a liar, and this is what you are.

  • Bored Now

    Linus Pauling was right about vitamin C.

    Most of Pauling’s claims about vitamin C were wrong. He even went so far as to found an institution to study Vitamin C. The number of large scale high-quality studies that came out of it was unsurprisingly zero.

    Just like Archie Kalokerinos, Pauling gets a D- in “How to do actual medical research”.

  • Ron Roy

    Just form what source did I cut and paste this from? You’re on.

  • Ron Roy

    ”SV40, a cancer-causing monkey virus.
    The puzzle began in 1994, when Dr. Michele Carbone, a Loyola University
    researcher, found the virus SV40, which had never before been detected
    in humans, in half of the human lung tumors he was studying. Since then,
    60 different lab studies have confirmed the results, and SV40 has been
    found in a variety of human cancers, including lung-, brain-, bone-, and
    lymphatic cancer.”http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/02/18/60-lab-studies-now-confirm-cancer-link-to-a-vaccine-you-probably-had-as-a-child/

  • Ron Roy

    Still waiting for you to point out those epidemics.

  • I bet they would if the safety guarantee formwas reasonable though.

  • Your evidence Hans is paid?

  • Ron Roy

    If vitamin C didn’t work it wouldn’t have prevented all the death 9 due to vaccines ) that were occurring on the reservation where Archie Kalokerinos was working.And scurvy lets talk abut scurvy…..The MEDICAL MAFIA is on a quest to denigrate anyone and anything that could and does harm their profits.Remind me of Groucho Marx singing ” whatever it is I’m against it. The MEDICAL MAFIA sings( if it’s cheap, natural and it works I’m against it). Vitamin C I’m against it. Vitamin D3 I’m against it.
    Vitamin B6 /12 etc I’m against it. Minerals I’m against it.Herbal supplements I’m against it.

  • Bored Now

    If vitamin C didn’t work

    Vitamin C does what it’s supposed to do it provides you with electrons for a few reactions. However the claim you made was about Pauling and just about anything Pauling claimed about vitamin C – is wrong. Because he, like Archie didn’t know how to do proper clinical research.

    it wouldn’t have prevented all the death 9 due to vaccines )

    Since Archie didn’t do anything remotely resembling research, the idea that Vitamin C prevented anything or that vaccines caused anything are just stores. Perhpas you tell yourself these stories to help you deal with the fact that most science is so far beyond your grasp you couldn’t contribute anything to the discussion even if you had started studying fifty years ago.

  • They aren’t unconnected, Shawn. You do know what the interent does, right?

  • I already had a couple of HPV vaccination – different brand but still. I considered it a wise precaution given family history.

  • Thomas Mohr

    The idiocies you post are a very powerful deterrent. As I have personally experienced, one has to point out your example and people are cured from the anti-vaxx movement

  • Thomas Mohr

    Nope. point out to people what you really are (i.e. endangering children) and they quit the anti-vaxx idiocy.

  • shygirl75158

    And the flu vaccine has the highest death rate reported. Pick your poison.

  • Judith

    “Only 40 schools required the minimum 25 h recommended by the National Academy of Sciences.” Do you consider that adequate? Nutrition is the foundation of our health not drugs.

  • Judith

    Thank goodness for those who sell good nutritional supplements – I have stayed away from pharma drugs for nearly 70 years and do not intend to take any. I run 2 kms every day and feel healthy and well. Good nutrition is the key not drugs and chemical vaccines.

  • Brian

    I, for one, will happily answer your question after you admit that it’s wrong to promote the lie “doctors only get four hours of nutrition training”.

  • Judith

    It is well known that synthetic vitamin A, E can be toxic in high doses. Those familiar with natural health take the natural form. All vitamin studies above were done using the synthetic form:
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/172956-what-are-the-dangers-of-synthetic-vitamins/

  • Brian

    Judith says “Thank goodness for those who sell good nutritional supplements”

    Hmm… weren’t you accusing others of being shills?

  • Brian

    *citation needed

  • FallsAngel

    PLEASE document!

  • shay simmons

    Question — of the seven children on the St Anne’s list of forty deaths, five had no cause of death listed, one died of scarlet fever, and the seventh had “convulsions” on the death certificate. What might that have been?

  • shay simmons
  • shay simmons

    Why did you lie, Ron?

  • shay simmons

    Let’s see — on the one hand, we have the scientific consensus. On the other hand, we have an article from mercola.com.

    You sure know how to pick ’em, Ron.

  • Bored Now

    Yes, Ron why did you lie?

  • Kim Jensen

    Your evidence Hans is not paid?

  • AutismDadd

    Well you are so full of bratwurst its not funny

  • AutismDadd

    They must be relatives of yours or students worried about their marks. Tell them to sign up at Disqus and they’ll see what a bozo you are.

  • AutismDadd

    Three experts in what shilling?

  • AutismDadd

    Na, its from the manual you use.

  • AutismDadd

    Wise from you? Good one

  • AutismDadd

    Your evidence he isn’t?

  • How about if you actually went to Pubmed and looked for those studies. I am beyond tired of you wasting my time; and you know those directly showing that causation, studies, exist. I have loads of those studies, why don’t you??? Because you in sick and lying denial, that is why.

  • Because a newborn is at no risk of Hep B, unless the mother is positive; and even then in most cases, the baby does not acquire Hep B. In any case, if the baby has acquired Hep B from the mother it is already to late for the vaccine to work, and other protocols need to be put in place.

    [Because despite being unable to produce antibodies prior to 3 to 6 months, the immune system is capable of learning to respond to antigens prior to 3 months, preparing it to produce antibodies against the diseases vaccinated for at 3 months.]

    What load of bullshit. There is no way injecting that level of contamination and toxicity is worth it, in the hope that it might help train the immune system to respond to vaccines. You really are beyond brainwashed by the false vaccine propaganda.

    PMID: 20442687 Pubmed, does NOT offer any rationalization for why vaccines are a better choice than breast milk. It as well does not provide any common sense rationalization for stopping breast feeding, and just so toxic and known contaminated injected vaccines, can work and without the interference of passive antibodies given to the child by the mother. How beyond stupid.

    [Vaccine manufacturers are held responsible should their products harm a child as the result of manufacturing or labeling defects. All other claims of injury are resolved through the VICP program, . . . ]

    No they are not. And the federal vaccine court has wrongfully dismisses no over 10,000 cases for proper compensation at that federal vaccine court. Only a small fraction of the cases that could be filed, are ever filed with that court.

    16,555 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,581 of those determined to be compensable, while 10,974 were dismissed.
    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html

    Bruesewitz v. Wyeth has already shown and set the precedent in regard to that the federal vaccine court preempts any claims for a defective and highly reactive vaccine product, and as was such being the case with the former, DPT vaccine. So you are lying, again; and just making it up as you go.

    Here is a federal case regarding vaccine caused SIDS. But you say vaccines, don’t cause SIDS.
    https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013vv0611-73-0

    Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, Inc. (09-152)
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cert/09-152

    Supreme Court Upholds Liability Shield For Vaccine Makers
    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/02/22/133964322/supreme-court-upholds-liability-shield-for-vaccine-makers

    It is NOT unethical to do vaccinated verses unvaccinated studies and because 1000’s of unvaccinated children exist and that have had vaccine exemption, and which could be used as the double blind control group. Dr Mayer Eisentein as well has had nearly 40,000 files in regard to individuals that were never vaccinated; and guess what there existed no autism, but three cases; and all three mothers had the former RhoGAM shots, that contained at the time, Thimerosal.

    [Because for many infectious diseases (such as measles) even 90%+ rate of vaccine uptake can be insufficient to result in herd immunity, and even in areas with overall compliance rates of 90% or more there can exist some communities where rates are far lower (e.g. within the Somali community in Minnesota which has just experienced a measles outbreak).]

    Its NOT just the Somali community that is having outbreaks. Outbreaks have taken place and with 80% of the outbreak in US citizens that have been here all along. people from foreign countries as well have brought in strains of measles that are not covered by the current MMR vaccine. The CDC claims that the MMR vaccine protects from other measles strains that not in the vaccine; but yet they have no existing study to show that to be the case. They are deceptive liars, just like you. So you as well say that a 90%
    vaccination rate is not good enough. Really? I guess that shows us directly that the vaccines do not work. I have not had a vaccine in now over 47 years. As well millions of adults were never re-vaccinated since childhood; where are the outbreaks???

    [No ingredients found in vaccine formulations are toxic or otherwise harmful (regardless of cost) at exposure levels acheivable as the result of routine vaccination. Irritation at the site of injection is a mild
    and transient adverse effect, such that consideration of relative risk remains firmly in favor of vaccination.]

    What a LOAD of complete bullshit. Where are your vaccine safety studies to prove your claims???? They do not exist, so shut the hell up and crawl back in stupid big pharma shillary hole, JGC. You have nothing, and you never will.

    […. there is no evidence indicating that multidose vaccines are associated with greater risk than single dose vaccines.]

    When was that actually studied, JGC? It has never been studied, and nor has any such claim ever been proven as fact. Citation please?

    The doctors can not sign a vaccine safety guarantee because if they did, they would lose their A$$. That is the real reason, and why would they when the federal vaccine court absolves then from an accountability and responsibility for any vaccine caused injuries and deaths that occur. They simply deny it all.

    So much for your attempting to answer those questions, expose. Wake up.

  • You are a good man, Ron. These mislead vaccine shillary buffoons, simply won’t stop surfacing from the sulfur and brimstone burning pits of hell. They don’t even realize that they are doing the pro-vax agenda far more harm than good. But then when have any of them ever understood that simple, more harm than good, concept.

  • Try not to go to entirely psycho here, just calm down, focus, and think. I am sure you have plenty of pharma directed vaccine safety studies to make your case for the safety of all those nasty vaccine injected ingredients … NOT.

    Lets move on. As for aluminum adjuvants; how do you justify this? And this this increased amount of aluminum adjuvant no in the Gardasil 9, proven as being safe? Where did they do that study and could you please post that in your next reply?

    Aluminum – The Unapproved Toxin in Vaccines aluminum adjuvants, several of the vaccines included on the adolescent vaccine checklist include aluminum. The new Gardasil 9 vaccine, for instance, has 500 mcg of aluminum in each of the two doses. The vaccines for hepatitis and meningococcal Group B also contain aluminum adjuvants, as does the Tdap booster shot. While these ingredients are listed on the FDA website, information distributed to patients often does not include this. New formula of the HPV vaccine, Gardasil 9, has more than DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF ALUMINUM ADJUVANT in each dose than the previous formula New formula of the HPV vaccine, Gardasil 9, has more than DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF ALUMINUM ADJUVANT in each dose than the previous formula Aluminum, in any amount, is a known toxin that has been proven to cross the blood-brain barrier and to be linked to autoimmune diseases in prone individuals. Currently, there is no testing to determine which children may be prone to acquiring Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by Adjuvant (ASIA) or at what levels or frequency of exposure to aluminum in vaccines this may occur. While there are currently no clinically approved.

    Old Formula
    (Gardasil)
    New Formula
    (Gardasil 9)
    225mcg Aluminum adjuvant/dose
    2-3 recommended doses
    Total Aluminum exposure = 650 – 825mcg

    New Formula
    (Gardasil 9)
    225mcg Aluminum adjuvant/dose
    2-3 recommended doses
    Total Aluminum exposure = 650 – 825mcg
    500mcg Aluminum adjuvant/dose
    2-3 recommended doses
    Total Aluminum exposure = 1000 – 1500mcg

    Both meningococcal and HPV vaccines are recommended by the CDC, but during the trials, Menactra (one of the major meningococcal vaccines) and Gardasil were never evaluated for safety when both were given simultaneously. The National Vaccine Information Center conducted their own research and discovered an increased risk of certain serious side effects. When Gardasil and Menactra were given to a patient on the same day: Respiratory problem reports increased by 114 percent Cardiac problem reports increased by 118 percent Neuromuscular and coordination problem reports increased by 234 percent Convulsions and central nervous system problem reports increased by 301 percent Reports of injuries from falls after unconsciousness increased by 674 percent.

    http://info.cmsri.org/hubfs/Content%20Offerings/Teenage%20Immunization%20Journal-Final.pdf?t=1502385349475

    http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/why-its-critical-to-maintain-a-record-of-your-teenagers-vaccinations?utm_campaign=Teenage%20Immunization%20Journal&utm_content=58862395&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

    J Inorg Biochem. 2012 Dec;117:85-92. doi: 10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2012.08.015. Epub 2012 Aug 30.
    Detection of human papillomavirus (HPV) L1 gene DNA possibly bound to particulate aluminum adjuvant in the HPV vaccine Gardasil.

    Lee SH1.

    Abstract
    Medical practitioners in nine countries submitted samples of Gardasil (Merck & Co.) to be tested for the presence of human papillomavirus (HPV) DNA because they suspected that residual recombinant HPV DNA left in the vaccine might have been a contributing factor leading to some of the unexplained post-vaccination side effects. A total of 16 packages of Gardasil were received from Australia, Bulgaria, France, India, New Zealand, Poland, Russia, Spain and the United States. A nested polymerase chain reaction (PCR) method using the MY09/MY11 degenerate primers for initial amplification and the GP5/GP6-based nested PCR primers for the second amplification were used to prepare the template for direct automated cycle DNA sequencing of a hypervariable segment of the HPV L1 gene which is used for manufacturing of the HPV L1 capsid protein by a DNA recombinant technology in vaccine production. Detection of HPV DNA and HPV genotyping of all positive samples were finally validated by BLAST (Basic Local Alignment Search Tool) analysis of a 45-60 bases sequence of the computer-generated electropherogram. The results showed that all 16 Gardasil samples, each with a different lot number, contained fragments of HPV-11 DNA, or HPV-18 DNA, or a DNA fragment mixture from both genotypes. The detected HPV DNA was found to be firmly bound to the insoluble, proteinase-resistant fraction, presumably of amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate (AAHS) nanoparticles used as adjuvant. The clinical significance of these residual HPV DNA fragments bound to a particulate mineral-based adjuvant is uncertain after intramuscular injection, and requires further investigation for vaccination safety.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23078778

    Vaccine Papers
    An Objective Look at Vaccine Dangers
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

    Detection of human papillomavirus L1 gene DNA fragments in postmortem blood and spleen after Gardasil® vaccination—A case report

    Author(s)
    Sin Hang Lee

    ABSTRACT
    A same-nested PCR was used to re-amplify the amplicon of a hypervariable region of the HPV-16 L1 gene DNA in the postmortem blood and splenic tissue obtained at autopsy of a formerly healthy teenage girl who suffered a sudden unexpected death in sleep 6 months after 3 intramuscular injections of a quadrivalent HPV vaccine, Gardasil?. A full autopsy analysis revealed no cause of death. The HPV-16 gene DNA detected in the postmortem materials was similar to the HPV-16 gene DNA fragments in Gardasil? in that both were in non-B-conformation, requiring nondegenerate GP6 and MY11 primers to re-amplify the PCR amplicon for detection and to generate a template useful for direct DNA sequencing. A sequence excised from the base-calling DNA sequencing electropherogram was analyzed by Basic Local Alignment Search Tool (BLAST) alignment and a 45 – 60 base sequence fully matched with a standard hypervariable region of the HPV-16 L1 gene retrieved from the National Center for Biotechnology Information database validated the correct genotyping for HPV- 16 L1 gene DNA. These naked non-proliferating HPV- 16 L1 gene DNA fragments appeared to be in the macrophages of the postmortem blood and spleen, and were protected from degradation by binding firmly to the particulate aluminum adjuvant used in vaccine formulation. The significance of these HPV DNA fragments of a vaccine origin found in post-mortem materials is not clear and warrants further investigation.

    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=25840#.UuXeNGTna2U

    This would explain again and as well additionally and directly explain the HPV vaccine caused autoimmune disorders that have been known of and as well possibly some of the adverse reactions and un-recovered from outcomes related to both HPV vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix.

    The standard pharma directed version immunologists have simply ignored the issue of molecular mimicry, in regard to the development and use of vaccines. As well the second most irresponsible form of neglect that immunologists ignore in regard to vaccine production, is the issue and concept known as original antigenic sin. The original antigenic sin issue only involves vaccine deriving immunity, and not natural immunity.

    Quantifying the possible cross-reactivity risk of an HPV16 vaccine.
    Kanduc D. J Exp Ther Oncol. 2009.

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND: The potential adverse events associated with vaccination for infectious diseases underscore the need for effective analysis and definition of possible vaccine side effects. Using the HPV16 proteome as a model, we quantified the actual and theoretical risks of anti-HPV16 vaccination, and defined the potential disease spectrum derived from concomitant cross-reactions with the human organism.

    METHODS: We searched the primary sequence of the HPV16 proteome for heptamer aminoacid sequences shared with human proteins using the Protein International Resource database.

    RESULTS: The human proteome contains 82 heptapeptides and two octapeptides found in HPV16. The viral matches are spread among proteins involved in fundamental processes, such as cell differentiation and growth and neurosensory regulation. The human proteins containing the HPV16-derived heptamers include cell-adhesion molecules, leukocyte differentiation antigens, enzymes, proteins associated with spermatogenesis, transcription factors, and neuronal antigens. The number of viral matches and their locations make the occurrence of side autoimmune cross-reactions in the human host following HPV16-based vaccination almost unavoidable.

    CONCLUSIONS: Any antigen-based vaccine needs to be carefully and thoroughly designed and critically screened for potential side effects by comparing sequence similarity at the molecular level.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19827272/

    Death after Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccination:
    Causal or Coincidental?
    http://sanevax.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Tomljenovic-Shaw-Gardasil-Causal-Coincidental-2167-7689-S12-001.pdf

    Many more studies as well have been accumulating in regard to the harm of Gardasil.

    PLEASE, tell me how injecting all of this toxic junk, MULTIPLE TIMES OVER, is ever “safe” and how it can possibly “support” a child’s otherwise healthy immune system?

    * aluminum hydroxide* aluminum phosphate* ammonium sulfate* amphotericin B* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,* dog kidney, monkey kidney,* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg* calf (bovine) serum* betapropiolactone* fetal bovine serum* formaldehyde* formalin* gelatin* glycerol* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)* hydrolized gelatin* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate(r))* monosodium glutamate (MSG)* neomycin* neomycin sulfate* phenol red indicator* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)* potassium diphosphate* potassium monophosphate* polymyxin B* polysorbate 20* polysorbate 80* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein* residual MRC5 proteins* sorbitol* tri(n)butylphosphate,* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and* washed sheep red bloodShould parents who choose not to vaccinate be forced to allow them? The fact that this question even comes up is PROOF that those who advocate vaccines don’t believe that they work the way we are told they are supposed to. Because if they really DID work, no one would bat a eye at their vaccinated child coming into contact with a sick, unvaccinated child. It’s simple logic – either they work and what others do doesn’t matter, or they don’t work and it’s all about taking your money. Do not confuse studies of “efficacy” with safety, because safety studieshave NOT been done.

    Case Report – Open Access
    Evidence that Food Proteins in Vaccines Cause the Development of Food Allergies and Its Implications for Vaccine Policy

    http://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/evidence-that-food-proteins-in-vaccines-cause-the-development-of-foodallergies-and-its-implications-for-vaccine-policy-2329-6631-1000137.php?aid=60994

  • Mike Stevens

    Couldn’t have been cerebrospinal fever (meningitis)…
    Vaccine reaction, obvs!
    😉

  • Well, first of all, I didn’t claim he wasn’t paid.
    Second, I asked you for evidence of your claim.
    Three, don’t shift the burden of proof.

  • Wise for me, individually. I have zero interest in mandating it but I was quite happy to volunteer due to risk factors.

  • 1)Not a claim I’m making.
    2)I didn’t make the claim.
    3)So you got nothing, then? Otherwise, why shift the burden of proof?

  • Kim Jensen

    Not me! Im still here. Not going anywhere!

  • Kim Jensen

    It doesn’t matter what anyone says on this forum, you and your friends try and debunk every ounce of proof shown to you on the harmful effects of vaccines. Keep pushing the lies. We know the TRUTH and so do YOU. What’s in it for you anyway? Depopulation? Well, here’s a fact for you. .. don’t think for 1 second that you would be exempt from that as well. They will get rid of you too! Best believe that! ! We’re not going to stop or back down from you EVER! Vaccines are poison and that’s a fact! You’ll never convince me otherwise no matter what you say! And no I don’t have any damn citations so don’t even ask!

  • Kim Jensen

    Oh blah blah blah! You know what I meant! Since you and your 20 other personalities are all up the cdc’s butt, I just read tonight, again, what’s actually in those vaccines. From the cdc website! As I said before, poison! No matter what the amount they want to inject, poison is poison! Period! !! And don’t act like you don’t know it cause ya do! !!

  • Isak Zachariasen

    If people weren’t ignorant retards incapable of grasping even simple science and prone to believing what suits their fancy, we wouldn’t have these forums

  • Isak Zachariasen

    you do realize chicken pox is a fairly harmless disease? Smallpox is the one you have to worry about.

  • Isak Zachariasen

    you clearly don’t have a clue what a scientific consensus IS. Come back once you’ve looked that up.

  • Isak Zachariasen

    of course refusing vaccines to a group of children would be completely and utterly insane – and congress knows this. Fortunately the people sitting there are a LOT less retarded than you.

  • Isak Zachariasen

    so much bullshit in so few sentences. Wakefield is a fraud, and had his medical license revoked because of it. That’s really all.

  • James Peters

    Unfortunately, given what we know today about cancer (it’s hundreds of different diseases), the likelihood that a magic cure will ever be found is zero. Cancers are so diverse, heterogeneous and mutable that the approach based on looking for one is conceptually absurd. As for Burzynski then he is a quack https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=stanislaw+burzynski&category_name=&submit=Search

  • Kimmypossible3578

    I applaud you! Thank you for all of this information. I truly appreciate this. You sure have done your research! You saved me several more hours of research myself! There is no way that these pharma shills on here can dispute these facts! This is definitely a mic drop! :)

  • Kimmypossible3578

    You’re the best! I have learned so much from you and Lowell. I’m so glad that I found this forum. I learn something new every day. I am so very sorry that you have a child with autism. This is truly preventable and these shills know it! I will keep fighting this fight with you all the way, by your side , along with all of the other parents and grandparents of vaccine injured children! GOD BLESS YOU! These shills don’t stand a chance up against a parent with a vaccine injured child! They are throwing themselves into the lions den!

  • Mike Stevens

    “”Only 40 schools required the minimum 25 h recommended by the National Academy of Sciences.” Do you consider that adequate? “

    Yes actually I do. Even as much as 20 hours would probably be sufficient, and I will tell you why…

    First, this is Med School. Those attending have all the basics well covered to begin with. They would be the cream of their crop in terms of science attainment, and familiar with chemistry and biology principles from college/premed. In the UK, preclinical studies includes biochemistry, physiology and pharmacology. They won’t have to spend the first 6 hours of lectures hearing what a “carbohydrate” is, what an enzyme or vitamin is. Students could probably recite all the steps of the Krebs cycle, tell you about gastric digestive processes and explain gluconeogenesis to you in their sleep before they even get this specific “nutrition” training.

    Unlike you, they have good basic knowledge, and to improve on that takes far less time than it would for some naïve layperson attempting to learn about “nutrition”.

    Secondly, this 25 hours is only formal direct teaching/lecture time. Med students do a lot of additional reading round the topics and self-directed learning. They will have course work, case presentations, have tutorials based around problem-based learning, and modules in integrated clinical practice. Then when they hit the wards for their clinical years, they consolidate this knowledge as they rotate through the sub-specialties. Almost all of these will have relevance to “nutrition”. Try and do an 8 week placement in Diabetes and Endocrinology for example, and you’ll spend a lot of that time discussing and managing patients’ nutrition with specialist teams including dieticians and diabetic specialist nurses.

    When they graduate, I don’t expect them to be experts on all aspects of nutrition, but they will be vastly more knowledgeable on the topic than anyone like you could be. If they wish to subspecialise in it, then they get further training.

  • Ron Roy

    Thank you. And you’re right these shills are actually making pro vaxxers question vaccines. Maybe we should give them a prize like a one way ticket to that place of sulfur and brimstone you just mentioned. Keep up the good work. You do a heck of a lot more than I do.

  • Ron Roy

    You mean $cientific consensus like this:

    There are also insiders within the most prestigious medical journals decrying
    the influence & corruption between Big Pharma and the medical
    profession/academic institutions:

    Dr. Arnold Relman, Harvard professor and former editor of the New England
    Journal of Medicine: “The medical profession is being bought by the
    pharmaceutical industry, not only in terms of the practice of medicine, but also
    in terms of teaching and research. The academic institutions of this country are
    allowing themselves to be the paid agents of the pharmaceutical industry. I
    think it’s disgraceful.” http://icfda.drugawareness….

    Dr. Marcia Angell, former Editor of NEJM: “It is simply no longer possible to
    believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the
    judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no
    pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two
    decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine…No one knows the
    total amount provided by drug companies to physicians, but I estimate from the
    annual reports of the top 9 U.S.-based drug companies that it comes to tens of
    billions of dollars a year in North America alone.By such means, the
    pharmaceutical industry has gained enormous control over how doctors evaluate
    and use its own products. Its extensive ties to physicians, particularly senior
    faculty at prestigious medical schools, affect the results of research, the way
    medicine is practiced, and even the definition of what constitutes a disease.”
    https://ethicalnag.org/2009

    Dr. Richard Horton, former Editor in Chief of The Lancet: “The case against
    science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may
    simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects,
    invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with
    an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has
    taken a turn towards darkness. As one participant put it, “poor methods get
    results”…The apparent endemicity of bad research behaviour is alarming. In
    their quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to
    fit their preferred theory of the world. Or they retrofit hypotheses to fit
    their data. Journal editors deserve their fair share of criticism too. We aid
    and abet the worst behaviours. Our acquiescence to the impact factor fuels an
    unhealthy competition to win a place in a select few journals. Our love of
    “significance” pollutes the literature with many a statistical fairy-tale. We
    reject important confirmations. Journals are not the only miscreants.
    Universities are in a perpetual struggle for money and talent, endpoints that
    foster reductive metrics, such as high-impact publication. National assessment
    procedures, such as the Research Excellence Framework, incentivise bad
    practices.” http://www.thelancet.com/pd

    The Dawn of McScience, Dr. Richard Horton, former Editor in Chief of the
    Lancet: ”Even scientific journals, supposedly the neutral arbiters of quality by
    virtue of their much-vaunted process of critical peer review, are owned by
    publishers and scientific societies that derive and demand huge earnings from
    advertising by drug companies and from the sale of commercially valuable
    content. The pressure on editors to adopt positions that favor these industries
    is yet another example of the bias that has infiltrated academic exchange. As
    editor of The Lancet I have attended medical conferences at which I have been
    urged to publish more favorable views of the pharmaceutical industry.”

    Nobel Prize winning scientist Sydney Brenner: “And of course all the
    academics say we’ve got to have peer review. But I don’t believe in peer review
    because I think it’s very distorted and as I’ve said, it’s simply a regression
    to the mean. I think peer review is hindering science. In fact, I think it has
    become a completely corrupt system. It’s corrupt in many ways, in that
    scientists and academics have handed over to the editors of these journals the
    ability to make judgment on science and scientists. There are universities in
    America, and I’ve heard from many committees, that we won’t consider people’s
    publications in low impact factor journals…I campaigned against this [culture]
    because I think it is not only bad, it’s corrupt. In other words it puts the
    judgment in the hands of people who really have no reason to exercise judgment
    at all. And that’s all been done in the aid of commerce, because they are now
    giant organisations making money out of it.”

    “An estimated 60% of biomedical research and development in the United States
    is now privately funded, and two thirds of academic institutions have equity
    ties with outside sponsors. Finding senior medical researchers or clinicians
    without financial ties to pharmaceutical companies has become exceedingly
    difficult. Those regarded as “thought leaders” routinely work as paid members of
    drug companies’ advisory boards despite evidence that the practice is part of
    industry’s promotional machinery. According to an article on the “tricks of the
    trade,” published in Pharmaceutical Marketing, the advisory process is one of
    the most powerful means of getting close to people and of influencing them”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go
    And you criticizes Mercola? WOW!

  • Ron Roy

    This will explain to those few that are following this just how corrupt you and the companies you represent are:

    This article may be
    reprinted free of charge provided 1) that there is clear attribution to the
    Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, and 2) that both the OMNS free
    subscription link http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html and also the OMNS
    archive link http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml are
    included.

    Click
    here to see a web copy of this news release

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, September 1, 2017

    They’re Back! The Pharmaceutical Shills

    Opinion by Wendell O. Belfield, Jr.

    “It is difficult to get a man to
    understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
    (Upton Sinclair)

    (OMNS Sept 1, 2017) Now there’s yet another
    article cautioning readers to not take vitamins because they may somehow
    increase the risk for lung cancer. [1,2]

    Attacks pushing drug treatment, in preference to
    less expensive and more effective treatment with vitamins and other essential
    nutrients, have become quite common in recent years. Orthomolecular medicine has
    adapted to such assaults. The field now looks forward to these spurious attacks
    because they provide a level of comic relief from the tensions of serious
    orthomolecular research.

    The gist of the article is the following:
    Epidemiologists at two American cancer research institutes (Mayo Clinic and Ohio
    State University) and the National Taiwan University studied 77,000 men between
    the ages of 50-76. The research institutes found evidence to suggest that long
    term (10 years) high dose supplementation with 20 mg of vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine
    Hydrochloride) and 55 mcg of B12 (cobalamin) – nutrients that are necessary for
    proper cellular metabolism throughout the body – was linked with a 3-fold
    increase in risk of developing lung cancer in men who regularly smoked.

    “I
    think smoking is such a wild card that it can throw off many a study. To me, it
    would be like studying the effects of artificial colors in soft drinks . . .
    when served to people dying of thirst.” (Andrew W. Saul)

    What was not made clear during the rant was why
    vitamins B6 and B12 were chosen for lung cancer research. Indeed, Abram Hoffer,
    MD, PhD, has written of the great value of these nutrients, saying “vitamin B6
    should be taken for the protection against arteriosclerosis, heart disease and
    strokes. Vitamin B6 is one of the nutrients essential in the conversion of
    homocysteine to the nontoxic cystathionine. Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) is used to
    maintain the health of all body cells by production of nucleic acid. It
    maintains nerve tissue sheaths, helps in blood formation and the production of
    genetic material DNA and RNA and affects protein and fat cells.” [3]

    Modern
    medicine places a great deal of importance on RDA vitamin intake, believing a
    good diet will somehow provide all the necessary nutrients to maintain good
    health. There is this ingrained belief that higher, optimal doses of vitamins
    are not necessary. Yet when it comes to treating pernicious anemia, conventional
    physicians will frequently use megadoses of B12 such as 100 mcg injections. 100
    mcg is 40 times the RDA. They are inadvertently practicing orthomolecular
    medicine. Why can’t they expand their minds to using mega-doses of other
    vitamins?

    The authors of the above-mentioned article
    missed the fact that the most recent data (2015) from the United States National
    Poison Data System emphatically states that there were no deaths from vitamins,
    no deaths from minerals or amino acids, and no deaths from homeopathics or
    herbs.[4,5]

    The article is misleading because it only showed
    an association (correlation) with an increased risk of lung cancer in smokers.
    It only assessed the amount of B vitamins that the study participants were
    consuming via dietary surveys, not actual blood levels. The article makes no
    mention of the source of B vitamins in the participants’ diet. I doubt, in the
    smokers, that they are coming from an over-consumption of leafy greens! And the
    study only evaluated current or past smokers, as there were too few
    never-smokers to evaluate associations. Therefore one is suspicious that the
    problem was smoking, not the vitamin B6 or B12 reported in the diet.

    Further, the risk of previous smokers was
    significantly less than for current smokers, implying that smoking was the true
    risk factor, not vitamin intake. In fact, some previous studies have found no
    association, or even an inverse (protective) relationship between blood levels
    of vitamins B6 and B12 and lung cancer! [6,7]

    Said
    one study:
    “The authors found significantly lower risk of lung cancer among
    men who had higher serum vitamin B6 levels. Compared with men with the lowest
    vitamin B6 concentration, men in the fifth quintile had about one half of the
    risk of lung cancer.” [7]

    Vitamins are not the problem. In fact, they can
    prevent lung cancer. The pioneering research conducted by Indu B. Chatterjee,
    PhD, demonstrates the importance of taking adequate doses of vitamin C and other
    essential nutrients.

    Dr. Chatterjee was a colleague of Drs. Irwin
    Stone and Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling. Here is a quote from Chatterjee: “I had
    indeed significant contact with the late Dr. Irwin Stone and Linus Pauling. In
    fact, Dr. Irwin Stone sent a copy of his book The Healing Factor: Vitamin
    C Against Disease with a handwritten inscription in red ink: “In
    appreciation for your pioneering work on ascorbate biosynthesis,” dated 13 March
    1974. In an e-mail sent to me five years ago it is quite apparent that Dr.
    Chatterjee was a more skillful marksman and superior researcher than the
    epidemiologists at the two American Cancer research institutes and the National
    Taiwan University. He wrote:

    “Besides having the importance of vitamin C
    in our day to day nutrition, our recent work indicates that vitamin C is really
    a panacea for preventing cigarette smoke-related fatal diseases like emphysema,
    cardiovascular disease, and also lung cancer. Although cigarette smoke contains
    about 4000 compounds, p-benzoquinone produced from p-benzosemiqinone of
    cigarette smoke in the lungs of smokers appears to be a major factor for
    producing the diseases.

    “All commercial cigarettes contain
    substantial amounts (100-200 micrograms/cigarette smoke) of p-benzosemiquinone,
    which is oxidized to p-benzoquinone in the lungs of smokers and denatures
    proteins and DNA. From lungs, p-benzoquinone goes to blood and all organs.
    Because these dreadful diseases have no cure, prevention should be the target.
    Vitamin C is a strong antagonist of p-benzoquinone and intake of a moderately
    large amount of vitamin C (about 2,000 mg/day) by smokers should almost
    completely prevent cigarette smoke-induced diseases. In support of this, I am
    appending below some of our recent publications.” [8-13]

    Conclusion

    If you want to reduce your risk of lung cancer –
    or any type of cancer, and also of heart disease – you can stop
    smoking. The risk goes down once you stop. And don’t believe the shills.
    You should take adequate doses of the B vitamins, and vitamins C, D, and E.
    [14,15]

    (Opinions expressed in this editorial are not
    necessarily those of the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service nor of all members
    of its Editorial Review Board. OMNS offers equal time to opposing opinion, and
    invites submissions of contrary viewpoints. Articles should be between 500 and
    1500 words, fully referenced, with citations in APA style. All submissions
    become the property of the OMNS and are subject to editing.)

    References:

    1. We Should Never Have Told People to Start
    Taking Vitamins and New Research Linking One Type to Cancer Shows Why. https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/24/we-should-never-have-told-people-to-start-taking-vitamins-and-new-research-linking-one-type-to-cancer-shows-why/23178576/

    2. Brasky TM, White E, Chen CL. Long-Term,
    Supplemental, One-Carbon Metabolism-Related Vitamin B Use in Relation to Lung
    Cancer Risk in the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) Cohort. J Clin Oncol. 2017 Aug
    22:JCO2017727735. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28829668

    3. Hoffer A, Walker M, Putting It All Together:
    The New Orthomolecular Nutrition, Keats Publishing, Inc. 1978, p 112-114

    4. Saul AW. No Deaths from Vitamins. None.
    Safety Confirmed by America’s Largest Database. Orthomolecular Medicine News
    Service, Jan 3, 2017 http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n01.shtml

    5. Saul AW. No Deaths from Supplements. No
    Deaths from Minerals or Amino Acids. No Deaths from Homeopathics or Herbs.
    Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Jan 5, 2017. http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n02.shtml

    6. Johansson M, Relton C, Ueland PM, et al.
    Serum B vitamin levels and risk of lung cancer. JAMA. 2010; 303:2377-2385. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20551408

    7. Hartman TJ, Woodson K, Stolzenberg-Solomon R,
    Virtamo J, Selhub J, Barrett MJ, Albanes D. Association of the B-vitamins
    pyridoxal 5′-phosphate (B(6)), B(12), and folate with lung cancer risk in older
    men. Am J Epidemiol. 2001; 153:688-94. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11282797

    8. Das A, Dey N, Ghosh A, Das T, Chatterjee IB.
    NAD(P)H: quinone oxidoreductase 1 deficiency conjoint with marginal vitamin C
    deficiency causes cigarette smoke induced myelodysplastic syndromes. PLoS One.
    2011; 6(5):e20590. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21655231

    9. Dey N, Chattopadhyay DJ, Chatterjee IB.
    Molecular mechanisms of cigarette smoke-induced proliferation of lung cells and
    prevention by vitamin C. J Oncol. 2011; 2011:561862. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21772844

    10. Ghosh A, Choudhury A, Das A, Chatterjee NS,
    Das T, Chowdhury R, Panda K, Banerjee R, Chatterjee IB*. Cigarette smoke induces
    p-benzoquinone-albumin adduct in blood serum: Implications on structure and
    ligand binding properties. Toxicology. 2012 Feb 26;292(2-3):78-89. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22154986

    11. Das A, Dey N, Ghosh A, Das S, Chattopadhyay
    DJ, Chatterjee IB. Molecular and cellular mechanisms of cigarette smoke-induced
    myocardial injury: prevention by vitamin C. PLoS One. 2012; 7(9):e44151. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22970172

    12. Chatterjee IB. The history of vitamin C
    research in India. J Biosci. 2009 ; 34:185-94. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19550033

    13. Banerjee S, Chattopadhyay R, Ghosh A, Koley
    H, Panda K, Roy S, Chattopadhyay D, Chatterjee IB. Cellular and molecular
    mechanisms of cigarette smoke-induced lung damage and prevention by vitamin C. J
    Inflamm (Lond). 2008; 5:21. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19014449

    14. Hoffer A, Saul AW, Orthomolecular Medicine
    for Everyone. Basic Health Publications, Inc., 2008. 376 pages.

    15. Vitamin E Attacked Again. Of Course. Because
    It Works http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v07n11.shtml

    Nutritional Medicine is Orthomolecular Medicine

    Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective
    nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org

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  • Bored Now

    This will distract those few that are following from the fact that I lost the argument

    FTFY.

  • David W

    Still waiting…go figure.

  • 655321

    Agree, but the it shows the industry, and government, understand the importance of online comments, and it would be dangerously naive to think they wouldn’t attempt to influence it. No idea who these 3 bozo’s are, but think the girl just did a hit piece in the 2nd amendment on a channel called think tank?

  • 655321

    He/she’s a paid industry donkey. No denial whatsoever.

  • 655321

    speaking of paid industry mules…..

  • Brian

    Kim says “You’ll never convince me otherwise no matter what you say!”

    …and that’s why you’ll remain ignorant. The flat-earthers and holocaust deniers say the same thing.

  • JGC

    One more time: I only post comments to Disqus under one account, JGC.

    As for “no matter what amount”, you’re wrong: the fundamental principle of toxicology is “The dose makes the poison”.

  • Kimmypossible3578

    At least I am honest enough to admit it. You won’t convince me otherwise because I have looked at both sides of this issue. My children are vaccinated. So am I. I have autoimmune issues, allergies, you name it! I did not get this until a few years ago. I pray that my children don’t run into the same issues. When I am at my little ones grade school, and I see all of the special needs children on that playground, some even need help walking, it hurts me to my very soul. One little boy, who is black, looked to be about 11 or 12, was carrying around a wubby sucking his thumb! The children needed assistance to play on the playground equipment! Most of them are autistic! I thank God every day that my children were spared of that! How dare you look into the eyes of these babies and LIE? ?? I know the truth and you nor anyone on this planet is going to tell me that vaccines don’t injure or kill these kids! You look into the eyes of these babies and their parents and you tell them that vaccines don’t harm or kill! If you can do that, there’s a special place in the fiery pits of hell for you and all of your “so called ” friends! !!

  • Even if we did, I would protest against those being mandated to go to school too. Because none of them are infectious diseases.

    And arguably, we do have attempts at preventatives against certain malnutrition issues – to be taken about three times a day. Who blocks it? Oh right, the Tinfoil-Hat Brigade.

  • Kimmypossible3578

    If that’s what you call ignorant, then ignorant I’ll be! You people don’t even TRY to see our side on this issue. You just want to be right! What about the most precious innocent victims in this? ?? Babies! ! Have you no heart? ? No soul? ? Look at how many of us are trying so hard to show you the truth! I don’t care what you think you know, if this many people are telling you this, and this many people are vaccine injured, they you go back and you do MORE research! !! And you keep researching until your brain hurts!! Just like we have! Do you think we WANT to believe this crazy sh** about these vaccines? ? Come on! ! You, Mr. Scientist, Doctor, HUMAN BEING, go back and research it again! !!!

  • Kimmypossible3578

    And YOU. .. just like the other one dammit! You read what I wrote to “Bryan ” cause I’m not repeating this sh** again! You STOP telling people that these vaccines are ok when you know that they’re not! And you research it a hundred times just like we have! And if you don’t, YOU and all of the ones like you, will answer for this. And it won’t be good I promise you! !!!

  • Brian

    Kim says “At least I am honest enough to admit it”

    No, you’re not honest. You’re lying. For example:

    1. Vaccines don’t cause autism (and many other conditions you blame on vaccines). We’ve known this for a long time because the unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated. If you had done your research, you’d already know this.

    2. Vaccines aren’t poison. We know this because the ingredients fall well below the quantities required to be poisonous. If you had done your research, you’d already know this.

    3. Vaccines save babies from suffering and death. They don’t cause it. While vaccine injuries can occur, very rarely, it’s nothing compared to the injuries and death caused by the diseases that vaccines prevent. If you had done your research, you’d already know this.

  • JGC

    I don’t know that they’re not okay: all the evidence I am aware of testifies to their safety and efficacy.