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Why You Can’t Find Safe Vaccines

The very first vaccine was for smallpox. It turned out to be a disaster, increasing the death rates and incidence of smallpox, while causing numerous serious side effects.

Likewise, the polio vaccine is widely credited for eliminating polio in this country, while in reality, the polio vaccine caused an increase in polio rates, which was hidden from the public by a redefinition of the polio disease. [1]

The number of vaccines, with the health damage and deaths they cause, continues to grow.

Many of those opposed to vaccines are not opposed to the idea of preventing disease through vaccination, but want vaccines that are both safe and effective. The pharmaceutical companies have been unable to provide a single safe and effective vaccine.

Few people are aware of the fact that safe vaccines do exist. Homeopathic vaccinations have been proven to be safe, effective and inexpensive.

At first glance, a safe, cost-effective vaccination appear to be a good thing. Further investigation quickly uncovers that a low cost, effective homeopathic immunization threatens the huge profits of vaccine makers whose goals, like all corporations, are to profit as much as possible through selling their products, including vaccines, at the highest price possible.

Inexpensive, safe, effective alternative treatments in general are shunned and destroyed by our medical industry. This has been evident in the cancer industry and the widespread destruction of homeopathic practice in this country since the 1900s.

Safe Homeopathic Immunization

Within the homeopathic health community, it is well known that safe homeopathic immunizations, more commonly described as nodules or remedies, exist for most diseases targeted by conventional medicine’s vaccinations.

The following diseases can be targeted through these safe homeopathic remedies, with immunity commonly lasting for 2-4 years, but occasionally up to 10 years. 100 years of medical research confirms the effectiveness of these safe homeopathic immunizations:

  • Chicken Pox:  Antimonium tart., Pulsatilla, Rhus tox.
  • Cholera:   Arsenicum alb., Choleratoxinum , Cuprum ac., Veratrum alb.
  • Diphtheria:   Apis, Mercurius cyan., Diphtherinum
  • Hydrophobia/ Rabies:   Hydrophobinum, Lyssinum, Stramonium
  • Influenza & Colds:   Psorinum 200c given in the fall before it becomes cold will strengthen the system against cold and flu virus;  Influenzinum et Baccilinum 200c (from Nelson’s Pharmacy, London) every 3-4 weeks during flu season greatly reduces the incidence of colds and influenza; Ocilloccocinum, 10 pellets twice a day given at the first sign of a cold or flu will often abort the infection
  • Measles:   Aconitum nap., Arsenicum alb., Morbillinum, Pulsatilla, Varicellinium
  • Mumps:   Parotidinum, Pilocarpine, Trifolium rep.
  • Pertussis/ Whooping Cough:   Cuprum met., Drosera, Vaccinum, Pertussinum
  • Pneumonia: Pneumococcinum
  • Polio:   Carbolic ac., Lathyrus sat. Physostigma, Polio (mixed nosode), Polio (Salk)
  • Rubella/German measles:   Pulsatilla, Rubella nosode
  • Smallpox:   Antimonium tart., Hydrastis, Kali cyan., Variolinum
  • Tetanus:   Ledum pal., Thuja, Tetanotoxinum;
  • Tonsillitis: Quinsy- Barita carbonica 30c given when inflammation threatens will abort the development of the inflammation [2]

Why There is NO Interest in a Homeopathic Vaccination

Our healthcare industry is run on the profit model. While many treatments do have health benefits, including saving lives, because pharmaceutical companies have such tremendous power over our healthcare, there is only interest in treatments which are profitable.

Vaccinations created by pharmaceutical companies are highly profitable. To make available to the public safe, inexpensive and effective homeopathic immunizations would threaten the tremendous profits of pharmaceutical companies who make expensive, ineffective and unsafe vaccinations. [3]

Why there are So Few Homeopathic Practitioners and Remedies Available

In the late 1800s, naturopathic and homeopathic medicine flourished in this country, with an abundance of homeopathic medical schools and practitioners. Homeopathy was recognized as a major competitor to conventional treatments, which included pharmaceutical drugs. Homeopathic medicine was effective, safe and inexpensive.

With the Flexner report, it became illegal for physicians to practice homeopathy and the majority of homeopathic medical schools were subsequently shut down.

History of Destruction of Safe, Effective and Low-Cost Cancer Cures

Other forms of medical care which have threatened profits of the healthcare industry have likewise been eliminated. Safe, alternative cancer cures have been available for the past 100 years, with many being forced out of the US due to their threat to the cancer industry.

Many treatments, originating in the US, can now be found only in Mexico and other countries. The only treatments for cancer considered legal in this country are radiation, chemotherapy and surgery. [4-6]

Conclusions

Safe, effective, affordable homeopathic immunizations exist for almost every illness now targeted by unsafe, costly, failed conventional vaccinations. If the goal were to provide protection from disease in a safe manner, why aren’t these safe, inexpensive homeopathic options made available to the public on a large scale?

Millions of dollars in healthcare costs would be saved by using a less expensive immunization. Most significant would be the reduction of vaccine-caused diseases including autism, asthma, allergies, autoimmune disorders, diabetes, and cancer. The health of Americans would improve in dramatic ways.

It appears therein lies the answer to the dilemma. Our healthcare is largely a medical model based on pharmaceutical care and profit. These safe, effective homeopathic immunizations would threaten the very profits and diseases which drive sick care in this country.

For More Information:

Here are two resources that may be helpful to readers wanting to learn more about homeopathic immunizations: Worldwide Choice, a group of like-minded practitioners who are trained in homeoprophylaxis, and Free and Healthy Children International, a non-profit organization “dedicated to research, education, and access to homeoprophylaxis.”

You may also wish to read How to Find a Physician to Support Your Vaccine Choice as a resource to find a homeopathic trained physician.

References:

  1. http://holistichealthtogo.com/vaccinations/the-great-medical-myth…
  2. http://www.vaclib.org/basic/health/homeotreatment.htm
  3. https://vactruth.com/2016/03/28/how-healthcare-was-bought-out/
  4. The Truth about Cancer Documentary
  5. Pierce, Tanya. Out Smart Your Cancer. Thoughtworks Publishing: Nevada, 2009.
  6. http://holistichealthtogo.com/natural-cancer-cures/

About the Author:

Michelle Goldstein is a mental health therapist who is passionate about holistic health, natural healing, nutrient-dense foods and the politics that impact them. She has published articles for Natural News, VacTruth, and other health websites. All of her published articles to date can be found at her health website, Holistic Health to Go. She can also be followed on her Facebook page, Holistic Health to Go.

Disclaimer:

The information contained within the VacTruth website is for educational and informational purposes only, and is not to be construed as medical advice. If you have a medical problem, you need the help of a trained medical professional.

Our full disclaimer is available to read here.

Photo Credit

Michelle Goldstein
 

Michelle Goldstein is a mental health therapist who is passionate about holistic health, natural healing, nutrient-dense foods and the politics that impact them. She has published articles for Natural News, VacTruth, and other health websites. All of her published articles to date can be found at her health website, Holistic Health to Go. She can also be followed on her Facebook Page.

  • Lee Reikert

    Aren’t homeopathic “vaccines” called nosodes as opposed to nodules? And actually it’s getting easier to find homeopathic care. There are many licensed homeopaths out there now and many naturopaths use homeopathy. You need to dig a little, but it’s easy enough to find. There’s a huge surge against our conventional medicine system so it’s easier to find alternative care now then it was 20-40 years ago. Lots of holistic vets out there now too.

  • Homeopathy has no evidence for it as a prophylaxis in the prevention of infectious disease and none is given here in this article.

    There is no evidence because there is no tenable biologic theory for how they are supposed to work: they have no active ingredient in them.

    If one starts with pure, distilled water then makes a homeopathic solution, the result can be tested and it will be chemically indistinguishable from pure, distilled water.

    When given to the person, you will find no antibodies produced. In fact, you will find absolutely no change to the person because all they have been given is pure water.

    Some of the work on Vactruth is worth reading; this is not an example of that.

  • shelley

    If you care to research “homeopathy and nano particles”, the research supports that there is an atomic structure at that level in homeopathic remedies. The Germans have done a particularly good job at researching this. Europeans are way way ahead of where Americans are in their research and use of the safe and effective modality of homeopathy. They are not in the pocket of unregulated big pharma.

  • I have spent many, many hours researching homeopathy and never found any evidence of any quality. The last book I was asked to read on homeoprophylaxis (“The Solution: Homeoprophylaxis: The Vaccine Alternative”) was terrible and had no evidence of any quality.

    There is neither, in my view, any evidence that it works (where are the studies that show exposure to a virus and non-infection?) nor is there is a plausible biological theory for them.

    If you can show me animal studies in which the animals were protected from infection using this method, I would be very much interested.

    Until then homeoprophylaxis has, in my view, absolutely no merit to it and it is important that people do not think they are protected when they are not.

  • John

    In short, vaccines cannot be safe the way Big Pharma makes them because they are attacking the germ itself and to do that they must damage the body to create an IGA antibody reaction. This requires damaging the body to do that!

  • Where was the study done, and who did this study, giving evidence to your claims? And you are claiming that the immune system involves only production of antibodies, in regard to the resistance to, and the recovery from illness?

    Antibody titers and immunity: Are they related?
    http://vaclib.org/basic/titers-immunity.htm

  • There is no study to my knowledge that shows that homeoprophylaxis works.

    I’m asking for the advocates of homeoprophylaxis to produce one.

    And I don’t want to see titers. I want outcomes. Something like:

    200 mice were given homeoprophylaxis
    200 were not

    All were exposed to a pathogen.

    x% of the test group became infected
    y% of the control group became infected

    Regardless of the alleged biological mechanism, if homeoprophylaxis works, there will be a statistically significant result between the two groups.

    I have yet to find that study but am open to reading one, if it exists.

  • So you are saying that in going back to the very beginning of history, that homeopathic remedies are not currently effective in treating anything at all, and that they never were? How about the claims that homeopathy has helped, reverse autism? Have you researched any of that?

  • In every case where someone has told me homeopathy helped them, I ask the question: “What else were you doing at the same time?”

    In every instance they excitedly tell me a long list of other things they did, from diet changes to behavioral therapy.

    But, because they have a thing for homeopathy, they claim homeopathy was “the thing” that made the difference.

    No well-designed study (in which the homeopathic preparation was the only variable between the test and control groups) that I know of has shown any effectiveness for homeopathy.

    This is in stark contrast to the situation with vaccines. With vaccines I can tell you biological mechanisms for autism, for instance, complete with citations from the best labs in the world.

    Again, if you know any studies that don’t consist of “a bunch of people took a homeopathic preparation in Cuba” but instead are properly designed, I am willing to take a look.

    The evidence given to me over the years has failed to show any efficacy for homeopathy above the placebo rate.

  • Esoterical

    My research involves veterinary homeopathy and there are studies of the effectiveness of parvo nosodes given during threat of or actual outbreak and survival/death rates. One study showed that vaccinated pups did extremely poorly.

    Nosodes work best at times of impending crises, as they were intended, and not as preventive “vaccinations.”

  • Vaccines do provide some protection but come with all sorts of problems — and we can measure them. So I have no problem with hearing that the pups did “extremely poorly” depending on what you mean by that. Whether the health establishment acknowledges the problems is another matter, of course, and mostly they don’t.

    The article above is claiming exactly that this method is prophylactic in nature, in order words, that it should be used for protection:

    pro·phy·lax·is
    action taken to prevent disease, especially by specified means or against a specified disease.

    In the case of nosodes, please provide any sort of quality evidence that they produced a protective effect.

  • Yes, the author got that wrong.

  • The author, got what wrong?

  • Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence

    What is this?

    Key References
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#refs

    The Status of Homeopathy Research

    Most rigorous clinical trials and systematic analyses of the research on homeopathy have concluded that there is little evidence to support homeopathy as an effective treatment for any specific condition.

    A 2015 comprehensive assessment of evidence by the Australian government’s National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that there are no health conditions for which there is reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective.

    Homeopathy is a controversial topic in complementary medicine research. A number of the key concepts of homeopathy are not consistent with fundamental concepts of chemistry and physics. For example, it is not possible to explain in scientific terms how a remedy containing little or no active ingredient can have any effect. This, in turn, creates major challenges to rigorous clinical investigation of homeopathic remedies. For example, one cannot confirm that an extremely dilute remedy contains what is listed on the label, or develop objective measures that show effects of extremely dilute remedies in the human body.

    Another research challenge is that homeopathic treatments are highly individualized, and there is no uniform prescribing standard for homeopathic practitioners. There are hundreds of different homeopathic remedies, which can be prescribed in a variety of different dilutions for thousands of symptoms.

    Read more:
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4

    And you actually thin that people have used homeopathy 1796, and it actually had nothing but a placebo effect;and nor actual health benefit was found, or achieved for anyone?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

    Homeopathy Successfully Treated Flu Epidemic of 1918

    Was homeopathy successful in treating the flu epidemic of 1918? Yes. While the mortality rate of people treated with traditional medicine and drugs was 30 percent, those treated by homeopathic physicians had mortality rate of 1.05 percent. Of the fifteen hundred cases reported at the Homeopathic Medical Society of the District of Columbia there were only fifteen deaths. Recoveries in the National Homeopathic Hospital were 100%. In Ohio, of 1,000 cases of influenza, Dr. T. A. McCann, MD, Dayton, Ohio reported NO DEATHS.

    What homeopathic remedies were used to successfully treat the Spanish flu in 1918? Gelsemium and Bryonia According the Dr. Frank Wieland, MD, in Chicago, “(With) 8,000 workers we had only one death. Gelsemium was practically the only remedy used. We used no aspirin and no vaccines.”

    Homeopathy was 98% successful in treating the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918?

    Yes. Ohio reported that 24,000 cases of flu treated allopathically had a mortality rate of 28.2% while 26,000 cases of flu treated homeopathically had a mortality rate of 1.05% . In Connecticut, 6,602 cases were reported, with 55 deaths, less than 1%. Dr. Roberts, a physician on a troop ship during WWI, had 81 cases of flu on the way over to Europe. He reported, “All recovered and were landed. Every man received homeopathic treatment.

    How do they know that a virus caused the flu epidemic of 1918, when the first virus was not isolated until 1933?

    They don’t. In fact, many believe that the epidemic was actually a vaccine reaction. When Army vaccinations became compulsory in 1911, the death rate from typhoid vaccination rose to the highest point in the history of the US Army. US Secretary of War Henry L Stimson reported that seven men dropped dead after being vaccinated. He also reported 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of yellow fever vaccination during only six months of WW1. According to a report in the Irish Examiner, “The report of the Surgeon-General of the US Army shows that during 1917 there were admitted into the army hospitals 19,608 men suffering from anti-typhoid inoculation and vaccinia. When army doctors tried to suppress the symptoms of typhoid with a stronger vaccine, it caused a worse form of typhoid paratyphoid. But when they concocted an even stronger vaccine to suppress that one, they created an even worse disease Spanish flu.”

    Did the flu strain that caused the 1918 flu ever return?

    Yes. The 1918 ‘Spanish Flu’ was first reported in an American military, Camp Funston, Fort Riley, in troops preparing for WW1 and receiving 25 vaccinations. According to the CDC, the same flu strain appeared only one other time: in 1976. This was again at a US army base, Fort Dix, and again, was seen in recently vaccinated troops, and only in them. The virus has not appeared anywhere else.

    Is homeopathy successful in treating the modern flu? Yes

    Read more:
    https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/homeopathy-successfully-treated-flu-epidemic-1918

  • Homeopaths call one type of preparation a nosode; the author called them nodules.

  • If the preparations discussed in any of the above were traditional i.e. diluted so that there is no active ingredient left, I think they did nothing.

    Preparations that are pure, distilled water or pure sugar pills can’t have any effect other than placebo. That’s why they fail their experiments.

    The basis of the methodology is based on a backwards and completely incorrect way of how the physical world works. In the upside-down world of homeopathy, the more dilute the preparation the stronger it is.

    1:10 “low potency”
    10^−400 “very high potency”

    But at 10^-26 dilution there isn’t even an original molecule left.

    I was once told that a preparation of 100C was “too dangerous for a beginner to use.” (C is a 1:100 dilution so 100C is diluting it 1:100 100 times)

    It was pure water.

  • Perhaps its a typo; anyone knows what nodules are, and that they are not the same as nosode’s.

  • You have the study science right in front of you. Who said there is no active ingredient, and how do you figure that crap? You don’t have as clue how homeopathy works. You simply believe that it can not be so, and that is it.

    Tell me, how do environmental allergists relieve an allergic reaction, with just the right small amount of the same substance; called sublingual antigen drops? Perhaps you should start with going to one of those practices, and see that it works. Homeopathy operates on the same principals. How do such allergists as well build up proper immune response and build defense against allergies, with the same sublingual under the tongue, drops? It works, and I used to go to one of those allergists in LaCrosse Wisc. With no health insurance, I couldn’t continue as to the cost; but it did work.

    Instead I had properly done amalgam tooth filling removal, and replacement. That healed and improved much of what I had going on at the time, for health issues. Not all of the immunological harm can be undone, but much of it will see improvement.

    https://lacrosseallergy.com/

  • sabelmouse

    our cat survived fl/fip due to homeopathic remedies. he was scheduled for the big sleep after everything else failed.
    it’s been a year now.

  • sabelmouse

    i get what you mean but nothing different with our cat. he’d been back and forth at the vet, tests and ivs, [ feline leukemia and feline infectious peritonitis]
    antis and steroids, then we were told that he was going to keep on slowly dying, or we’d have to put him to sleep.
    luckily the other vet came back from holidays, heard about this, [ i hadn’t even known that she’d got into homeopathy, a recent development], offered us remedies and he’s fully recovered.

  • Yes, I hear stories like that. The problem is that if it was due to the homeopathy there should be *some* trustworthy studies that show a result.

    As I mentioned, I can find lots of problems with vaccines in the literature. When people say they are safe and effective I can point them to studies that disprove that.

    But with homeopathy, despite decades of concerted effort, the community has come up with nothing worthwhile.

  • sabelmouse

    well, 100 years or so ago semmelweis couldn’t prove what made hand washing so important, it still was.
    maybe one day science will catch up.

  • Esoterical

    That’s my point and what most homeopaths believe. Treat like with like to obtain and maintain homeostasis. The remedies (and nosodes) are not prophylaxis agents, they act against symptoms. Good for you and wonderful for that cat!

  • I replied with this before, and you ignored it. How about if you address these studies, and this information, directly?

    Key References. You said there are no studies showing homeopthat to effective? So, what do you call this? Still not good enough?
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#refs

    The Status of Homeopathy Research

    Most rigorous clinical trials and systematic analyses of the research on homeopathy have concluded that there is little evidence to support homeopathy as an effective treatment for any specific condition.

    A 2015 comprehensive assessment of evidence by the Australian government’s National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that there are no health conditions for which there is reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective.

    Homeopathy is a controversial topic in complementary medicine research. A number of the key concepts of homeopathy are not consistent with fundamental concepts of chemistry and physics. For example, it is not possible to explain in scientific terms how a remedy containing little or no active ingredient can have any effect. This, in turn, creates major challenges to rigorous clinical investigation of homeopathic remedies. For example, one cannot confirm that an extremely dilute remedy contains what is listed on the label, or develop objective measures that show effects of extremely dilute remedies in the human body.

    Another research challenge is that homeopathic treatments are highly individualized, and there is no uniform prescribing standard for homeopathic practitioners. There are hundreds of different homeopathic remedies, which can be prescribed in a variety of different dilutions for thousands of symptoms.

    Read more:
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4

    Homeopathy Successfully Treated Flu Epidemic of 1918

    Was homeopathy successful in treating the flu epidemic of 1918? Yes. While the mortality rate of people treated with traditional medicine and drugs was 30 percent, those treated by homeopathic physicians had mortality rate of 1.05 percent. Of the fifteen hundred cases reported at the Homeopathic Medical Society of the District of Columbia there were only fifteen deaths. Recoveries in the National Homeopathic Hospital were 100%. In Ohio, of 1,000 cases of influenza, Dr. T. A. McCann, MD, Dayton, Ohio reported NO DEATHS.

    What homeopathic remedies were used to successfully treat the Spanish flu in 1918? Gelsemium and Bryonia According the Dr. Frank Wieland, MD, in Chicago, “(With) 8,000 workers we had only one death. Gelsemium was practically the only remedy used. We used no aspirin and no vaccines.”

    Homeopathy was 98% successful in treating the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918?

    Yes. Ohio reported that 24,000 cases of flu treated allopathically had a mortality rate of 28.2% while 26,000 cases of flu treated homeopathically had a mortality rate of 1.05% . In Connecticut, 6,602 cases were reported, with 55 deaths, less than 1%. Dr. Roberts, a physician on a troop ship during WWI, had 81 cases of flu on the way over to Europe. He reported, “All recovered and were landed. Every man received homeopathic treatment.

    How do they know that a virus caused the flu epidemic of 1918, when the first virus was not isolated until 1933?

    They don’t. In fact, many believe that the epidemic was actually a vaccine reaction. When Army vaccinations became compulsory in 1911, the death rate from typhoid vaccination rose to the highest point in the history of the US Army. US Secretary of War Henry L Stimson reported that seven men dropped dead after being vaccinated. He also reported 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of yellow fever vaccination during only six months of WW1. According to a report in the Irish Examiner, “The report of the Surgeon-General of the US Army shows that during 1917 there were admitted into the army hospitals 19,608 men suffering from anti-typhoid inoculation and vaccinia. When army doctors tried to suppress the symptoms of typhoid with a stronger vaccine, it caused a worse form of typhoid paratyphoid. But when they concocted an even stronger vaccine to suppress that one, they created an even worse disease Spanish flu.”

    Did the flu strain that caused the 1918 flu ever return?

    Yes. The 1918 ‘Spanish Flu’ was first reported in an American military, Camp Funston, Fort Riley, in troops preparing for WW1 and receiving 25 vaccinations. According to the CDC, the same flu strain appeared only one other time: in 1976. This was again at a US army base, Fort Dix, and again, was seen in recently vaccinated troops, and only in them. The virus has not appeared anywhere else.

    Is homeopathy successful in treating the modern flu? Yes

    Read more:
    https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/homeopathy-successfully-treated-flu-epidemic-1918

  • Well, actually, I think that page is correct:

    “Most rigorous clinical trials and systematic analyses of the research on homeopathy have concluded that there is little evidence to support homeopathy as an effective treatment for any specific condition.

    A 2015 comprehensive assessment of evidence by the Australian government’s National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that there are no health conditions for which there is reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective.”

    Not sure why you’re sending me to a page that supports my point.

    As for the alleged evidence regarding the 1918 flu, I think that’s someone making up something to attempt to make their case (the National Homeopathic Hospital, for instance). Who knows what else they were doing? There is no study there, just a bunch of quotations.

    Homeopathy is one of the most studied alternative medical procedures and despite 70 years of trying, they still have failed to make their case.

    You’re going to have a hard time convincing me that pure, distilled water is making a difference. But if you want to believe it, go ahead.

    The problem is that it weakens the position of the community who challenges the safety and efficacy of vaccines when we say that pure water solutions that become more powerful when they are diluted more and supposedly contain some sort of “vital energy” are medicines.

    Makes us look like quacks and I wish Vactruth had never published this post. C’est la vie, I suppose.

  • So again, and like a repeated broken record that keeps replaying; you refused to address any of the studies on that, Key References page list.

    The Australian government is just as in bed with big pharma, and as the US government is, here. Of course they are going to conclude what they have. And just how did any page I posted ever support your point? And which page specifically, is that? Nothing I posted, supports your point.

    More than one historical reference has outlined success for homeopathy during the 1918, so called flu pandemic, and with much better success than allopathy, (the standard pharma based medical model). Chiropractic as well was a major benefit in the odds of survival during that time. No one would have any reason to just make something like that up; and that assumption is baseless. You apparently have a very low down view of the honesty and ethics of humanity, and as to those who have practiced homeopathy. .

    I don’t need to convince you of anything. All I need to do is provide counter evidence that your claims are in error. What, are you the only article reader, at vactruth?

    And why did you ignore as well the Allergy Associates, LaCrosse Wisc. information. What they do is very similar to homeopathy. And you would tell me that doesn’t work, either? How could that work, but yet you say homeopathy, does not work?

    Homeopathy does not involve only the use of pure water solutions. There are active ingredients in those solutions, and products. And none of the articles at vactruth, have ever made us look like quacks.

  • This one makes us look bad.

    Tell me of a homeopathic preparation that isn’t just pure water and give me the concentration. You can send some alcohol preparations, too, but that’s not really the point; the point is that you claim they have an active ingredient in a quantity sufficient to make a difference — even though the whole idea of homeopathy is that the more dilute the preparation, the more powerful it allegedly is.

    Which preparations would you say are effective and at what concentrations?

  • You are pathetic. And now you want me to educate you. Go back and address the list of studies that I put in front of you. Go back and address the Allergy Associates information, in relation to homeopathy.

    If you want to continue on the basis of a claim that homeopathic preparations are nothing but pure water, and that there is no evidence of anything else in them, that would constitute an active ingredient; then you have no basis for an argument worth starting with here, at all. Any homeopathic source that is actively connected to homeopathy, will list what is in the preparations. Even with that information put in front of you; you would still claim that no studies show effectiveness, and just because the Australian gov’t, ect.,says so.

  • I don’t tolerate insults. Thanks for the conversation.

  • sabelmouse

    thanks, more the other way round, we were devastated, he’s a very, very special cat, and are now deliriously happy about his survival.
    he probs doesn’t think much about it.
    people do seem to use homeopathy as prophylaxis though, or advertise it at least.

  • Nikka80

    1> The flu virus from 1918-1919 really has been typed – about 10 years ago. It was extracted from a pathology specimen and the lungs of an Alaskan Eskimo buried in permafrost:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070702145610.htm

    2> Yes, the “Spanish Flu” was first reported in the USA at army camps. A couple of European countries had earlier cases but suppressed reporting.

    3> Ypu must adjust for severity when analyzing flu cases treated by homeopathy – The very sick went to hospitals, not to homeopaths!

  • You mean that you can’t tolerate, or handle the truth. You either debate these matters in honesty and diligence, or you lose the respect you other wise would have had. You just keep on replying that there are no studies showing the effectiveness of homeopathy, and even though I put such studies right in front of you, you continued you ignored them.

  • “Been typed – about 10 years ago”, and what, just because they say so? “The very sick went to hospitals”; so what would that, prove? Nothing.

  • Damo

    You have to realize Lowell here doesn’t care about the truth. He cares only about what he gets from Mercola for doing his bidding.

  • Damo

    You will never find one from Lowell, he doesn’t believe in science.

  • Damo

    Oh, what’s a matter Lowell, no one wants to play with the uneducated bully?

    You are an idiot. The very first link has as the very first reference an article that says that homeopathy had at best mixed results of either positive or negative effects. It did no differently than placebos. Do you even understand the papers you are linking to?

  • Jesus baby

    Where else can you find anti-vaxxers arguing over homeopathy?

  • craigamunson

    actually they are different as it takes special photography such as kirlian to see it.the homeopathic nosode “water” wiggles as if it was the actual nosode and convinces the body it is the disease, even though it is not. a similar health care system that only used just nosodes was call isopathic. isopathic fell out of favor and homeopathic took over. early allopathic doctors injected raw mercury into the body to try and cure patients and killed a lot of people in the process. Those early allopathic doctors were not to bright in the healing department, but they were very greedy in the pecuniary department.

  • craigamunson

    aangel i developed a simple homeopathic works test just for anti-homeopathic people such as yourself. it is quite simple actually. 1. you simulate a hammerblow to the back of your hand by dropping a 1 pound weight from a height of 12 inches. giving your hand a force of 1 foot-pound. OUCH!!! now with your hand throbbing in PAIN. You apply a simple homeopathic prepared ointment directly to the pain throbbing hand. THE PAIN IS NOW GONE AS IF IT NEVER OCCURRED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Makes a believer of the non-believers every time. First their eyes go wide in astonishment, then comes the how?…how?… I love it. Science in its purist form Repeatable, measurable, results. Try it , you will like it. And for the die hard ones who insist on a double blind placebo test, you can have the other hand “slammed” and have cold cream applied as a “controlled” portion of the test. All of you are blindfolded. YOU, The weight dropper, The homeopathic applier, The cold cream applier. Personally I never cared much for the double blind placebo business anyways. You never saw my hero THOMAS ELVA EDISON using double blind placebo in any of his experiments…

  • craigamunson

    you are all missing the BIG PICTURE. All allopathc medicines are made from OIL and got there big financial start from johnny d rockefeller who was a hypocrite who publicly denounced homeopathy while privately using homeopathy for himself and his family til the day he died. OIL is not derived from any living matter: it has no dna signature, just like concrete and seawater. Cannot patent a natural. NO PATENTS FOR HOMEOPATHY. Only oil derived chemical concoctions which are always toxic. Show me any big pharma medicine without a list of contraindications ( SIDE EFFECTS ). cannot be done. keep drinking the kool-aid and you are going to wind up like jones town.

  • craigamunson

    wrong. allopathic works against the symptoms. it is called symptom SUPPRESSION for a reason. Homeopathy works by creating false disease like wiggling molecules causing the body to mobilize and create an army to fight the homeopathic molecules, however there is no real hostile molecules there when come to the homeopathic molecules so they go on in great numbers to fight the real bad guys.. neat system when you think about it: fake the body out to produce a massive amount of disease fighting molecules.now if someone would come up with a homeopathic remedy for congress. ha ha

  • Damo

    Oh, I didn’t even realize that aangel up there was an anti-vaxxers. He says most of what is on vac truth is worth reading bit not the homeopathy bs. He might be saved. Lowell is useless, though.

  • He refuses to address the scientific studies, and in falsely claiming that none exist to support the effectiveness of homeopathy. Can you?

    Key References.
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#refs

  • Would you care to make yourself actually, productive? How about addressing these studies?

    Key References.
    https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#refs

  • How useless are you, when you ignore the existing real science? You ignore it in regard to homeopathy, and you ignore in regard to vaccines. Here is one more for you, and again. I would say that it is actually you that is useless, if you have to continue to ignore this. Go ahead and address the questions as to the existing vaccine safety studies, and as well the information?

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jesus baby

    What an idiot.

    Key point #1 – “There is little evidence to support homeopathy as an effective treatment for any specific condition.”

    Conclusion from reference #1 – “The evidence from rigorous clinical trials of any type of therapeutic or preventive intervention testing homeopathy for childhood and adolescence ailments is not convincing enough for recommendations in any condition.”
    Those are from YOUR link Hubbsie! YOU DON’T HAVE THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS
    Oh, and I’m still waiting for your definition of a randomized trial (in your own words) and a yes or no answer on whether William Thompson was wrong on the CDC destroying MMR-autism data. I haven’t forgotten.

  • Nice to see you are yet sitting around all hours of the day and night, just waiting for me to respond. Are you doing that from home, or an assigned vaccine trolling shill, cubicle?

    I guess you forgot to read all the studies in that link. There is a point to be made here, and as much as you insist on missing the so called, boat.

    This article argues that there is as yet insufficient evidence to drive rational scientists to a consensus over UHD effects, even if they possessed knowledge of all the evidence. The difficulty in publishing high-quality UHD research in conventional journals prevents a fair assessment of UHD effects. Given that the existence of UHD effects would revolutionize science and medicine, and given the considerable empirical evidence of them, the philosophies of science tell us that possible UHD effects warrant serious investigation by conventional scientists and serious attention by scientific journals.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9553836

    Any review or study that is mediocre or negative, has been done by a pharma connected minion. You don’t see that?

    The growing number of complementary and alternative medicine centers affiliated with major teaching hospitals should provide a solid interface between evidence-based biologic medicine and many emerging complementary and alternative medicine modalities, including homeopathy.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11795090

    Effectiveness of Homeopathy Unfairly Questioned Again

    Recently homeopathy has had negative press coverage again. This was triggered by an overview report published by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC). The report claims that homeopathy is no more effective than a placebo and there is no reliable evidence that it is effective in the treatment of various health conditions. When first reading this conclusion, it sounds like a fatal blow. But what is the truth behind these findings?

    Homeopathic institutions worldwide have analysed the results of the NHMRC report. They conclude that the report mainly illustrates the difficulty to assess homeopathic studies and not the ineffectiveness of homeopathy. Homeopathic institutions demand larger, well-monitored studies into homeopathy and money to fund these. They also note that the report does not do justice to the many homeopathic studies which have shown positive results.

    Read more:
    http://www.hevert.com/market-us/en_US/physicians/medical-education/artikel/effectiveness-of-homeopathy-unjustly-questioned-again

    Homeopathy: meta-analyses of pooled clinical data.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200828

    Scientific Evidence for Homeopathic Medicine (more studies)
    https://www.homeopathic.com/Articles/Homeopathic_research/Scientific_Evidence_for_Homeopathic_Medicine.html

    The evidence for homeopathy (more studies)
    http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/evidence/the-evidence-for-homeopathy/

    The Swiss Government’s Remarkable Report on Homeopathic Medicine (more studies)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/homeopathic-medicine-_b_1258607.html

    SAFETY AND COST-EFFECTIVENESS
    http://facultyofhomeopathy.org/research/safety-and-cost-effectiveness/

    So, now do you get it? It all again depends on who is doing the evaluation of the treatment. If they want to show and intend to show ineffectiveness, that is exactly how they will determine it. If they want to be fair about it independently, the finding will often be positive for homeopathy. Just like with the AMA’s decades long false attack on the effectiveness of chiropractic.

    And you have had the definition of randomized linked to you more than once, and yet you refuse it. Do you have any more false excuses as to why the needed and appropriate vaccines safety studies continue to never have been done? Oh, that’s right, its not about the vaccine safety studies issue, its all only about me, right?

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Damo

    Stick to the fact that the studies you posted don’t prove what you think they do. Pathetic idiot.

  • Damo

    And I just told you that you are wrong.

  • Jesus baby

    Dana Ullman, 14 and 18 year old review articles, unauthored opinion pieces…YOU DON’T HAVE THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS
    And hey, you again forgot to define a randomized trial in your own words and give a yes or no answer about whether William Thompson was wrong about the CDC destroying autism data. Imagine that?

  • Really, and again how making repeated false excuses refusing to face those questions, can you be? What as well does Dana Ullman have to do with anything here at all, and as to this subject matter? Obviously it is YOU that doesn’t have the background for it, and to do SQUAT. Again, no one said, and as I told you before, that the CDC destroyed the data. It was the study authors that destroyed it, and as to the conclusions of the study. And again, I do not need to give you a description of randomized trial, and in my own words, when I have already given you the official description, and as it has been defined.

    So, you continue to actually think that such a false defense creates enough of a smoke screen, to avoid answering those questions, and as to why the necessary and needed vaccine safety studies have never been done. Just admit it; those needed studies have never been done, and simply because they fear what they will show. In most cases, they already know what they will show.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbo5vf_health-canada-corruption-dr-andrew_news

  • Why can’t you face and actually address, what I posted below; and if I am so wrong? You simply cherry pick the information and the studies which support your attempting to trash homeopathy agenda, and while ignoring all the information and the studies that support it. How endlessly worthless are your continued replies, and again you repeatedly refuse to just give it up?

  • Oh, but actually the information, and the studies prove exactly what I think, and know they do. How much time did you actually spend reviewing it all? I have the answer, you actually reviewed nothing, and even if you would have you would have simply ignored it, and then went back in here and just made another in denial reply. It is the same exact in denial methodology, as to and with all trolling shills. Nothing is ever going to change, with you people.

  • Jesus baby

    “What as well does Dana Ullman have to do with anything here at all, and{sic} as to this subject matter?”

    You just copy/pasted an article he wrote you blathering idiot.

    “It was the study authors that destroyed it…”

    Then how did Brian Hooker GET IT FROM THE CDC?

    “And again, I do not need to give you a description of randomized trial, and(sic) in my own words, when I have already given you the official description, and(sic) as it has been defined.”
    Until you can define it in your own words I won’t believe you understand it. You just copy/pasted an Ullman article yet you had no idea. If you can’t comprehend what a randomized trial is I can’t explain to you why the vaxxed vs unvaxxed trial you propose isn’t one. But you obviously don’t want answers to your 9 questions.

  • First of all, and as to that article link, they are NOT just some review articles, with unauthored opinion pieces. How would that be possible when each of over 45 references have the author names attached right to them? What you are conducting again is nothing but false discreditation, and with zero actual address of the information

    Dana Ulman has his name attached to only this reference right here.

    –Dana Ullman (ed.), Monograph on Homeopathic Research, volumes I and II, 1981, 1986.

    The year that research information exists in it actually irrelevant; as time does not make the facts, disappear. Again, you are refusing to get honest about the actual bulk of study information that exists in regard to homeopathy, and all the name calling you can come up with, doesn’t change that reality.

    What is it that you yet fail to comprehend regarding my statements as to Brain Hooker, the said study, and the CDC? Yet you continue with your irrelevance.

    If I didn’t comprehend what randomized means, and in terms of studies or a clinical trial, I wouldn’t have earlier in my posts provided you with the official definitions, with links to it.

    Why is it that you call any and all studies on a vaccines, a clinical trial? Clinical trials are only done by pharmaceutical companies, and it is limited to that, by the FDA.

    It isn’t as simple as just explaining why there isn’t yet done a vaxed verses unvaxed health outcome study, as the needed vaccine safety studies extend to far more in depth existing vaccine issues, and questions than that.

    Now, get to addressing those 9 questions and the information that goes with them. You have no more false excuses left.

  • Jesus baby

    Ullman wrote the Huffpost article you copy/pasted also. Just more proof all you do is spam crap you haven’t read.
    I asked you how Hooker got the data from the CDC if the researchers destroyed it. You keep running from that one.
    And as I’ve explained already, a 3 year old can google and copy/paste the definition of a randomized trial (I mean YOU did it) and not understand it. So before we can move on with your questions I need to know you understand the concept. You just keep running from it.
    If you think the FDA limits clinical trials to only pharmaceutical companies you’re even dumber that I thought.
    Now as for the 9 questions, I’m trying to answer the vaxxed/unvaxxed one for starters, but you’re avoiding the prerequisites like the plague. I know you’re scared but then again you keep posting your questions so…whenever you’re ready, son.

  • Damo

    Face it, you are such a moron,you linked to a bunch of studies that disprove what you say. It is just you are too stupid to realize that.

  • Damo

    I didn’t cherry pick anything. It was your links that I reported on. Idiot.

  • You clearly ignored the studies that support homeopathic as a viable and effective treatment. What else can you call that but cherry picking the information, and while ignoring the information that does not support your in denial agenda. My links fully provided that information and those studies. You ignored it, and that obviously and certainly doesn’t make me an idiot.

  • More obvious misinformation, and lies from so called, Damo. Studies that show the positive effect of homeopathy, do not disprove what I said, and nor does it disprove the effectiveness of homeopathy. And you actually think that you can get away with your lying load of in denial BS; and your persistently selective, ignorance.

  • No matter what I reply post to you, you simply ignore it, and continue on with the same mindless claims. The only one actually running here, is you.

    Go ahead and as well list as many clinical trials as you can that the FDA has approved for, and as to natural substances, and which were approved for non pharmaceutical companies?

    Scared of what? You are the one that has failed to answer even one of those questions in the past two weeks that it has been re-posted. And I did not avoid anything; and it remains an open table for your responses as to the said questions. Just more of your false excuses. As I said, your continued avoidance and with the stupidity of, and in claiming that I do not understand what a randomized trial, or a randomized study is; is just simply a beyond pathetic and repeated excuse for you to keep running from the questions. How obvious would that need to be?

  • Jesus baby

    I’ll answer your questions if you’ll prove in your own words that you understand what a randomized trial is. You obviously don’t want to go there.

  • Damo

    Show me one study from your links that say that. One study.

  • I will not be re-posting what you previously chose to ignore. You can go back and find it. There is far more than one study there. It is the same old playing games and in causing only more disruption and distraction, that you trolling shills always do.

  • I don’t need to. You have zero reason for making any claim that I don’t understand the term randomized. So again all you are conducting here is more false personal harassment. And again, do you have any more false excuses for your failure to answer even one question within those 9 questions, as to the existing vaccine safety science?

    I already knew what it was; but I can read this; is there a reason that you can not read it, and comprehend it? So if this is not good enough for you, then I demand that it should be you that gives us the proof that you understand it, and you must prove that you understand what randomized means, in terms of study design; by describing in your own words what a randomized trial is. Get started. Lets see if YOU can actually go there?

    To any readers. Could anything be more insane as to the false excuses these trolls will persist with and to evade the right and the real questions as to the existing and available vaccine safety studies. They refuse to face the truth, period. Their only agenda is that of evasion, and continued denial.

    Randomized Controlled Trial

    Definition

    A study design that randomly assigns participants into an experimental group or a control group. As the study is conducted, the only expected difference between the control and experimental groups in a randomized controlled trial (RCT) is the outcome variable being studied.

    Read more:
    https://himmelfarb.gwu.edu/tutorials/studydesign101/rcts.html

    Randomized clinical trial listen (RAN-duh-mized KLIH-nih-kul TRY-ul)

    A study in which the participants are assigned by chance to separate groups that compare different treatments; neither the researchers nor the participants can choose which group. Using chance to assign people to groups means that the groups will be similar and that the treatments they receive can be compared objectively. At the time of the trial, it is not known which treatment is best. It is the patient’s choice to be in a randomized trial.

    https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms?cdrid=45858

  • Jesus baby

    In your own words you idiot. We all know you copy/paste piles of crap you don’t understand.

  • Damo

    I read all those studies, all of them found that homeopathy was at the same level of placebos. You are a moron posting proof that counters your own claims.

  • Damo

    Why don’t you just offer to have sex with Jesus baby and then you will change your mind. After all, you post according to what kind of sexual favors you will get out of it.

  • Damo

    “YOU DON’T HAVE THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS”

    You should see the list of studies he provided me for proving that homeopathy works. Every single one of them claims that homeopathy was no more effective than placebos, yet he insists they are proof that homeopathy works. He just doesn’t understand what he is talking about.

  • Damo

    Why are said studies needed? Can you explain that?

  • Damo

    “No matter what I reply post to you, you simply ignore it, and continue on with the same mindless claims. ”

    Really, because that is exactly what you do. Pick one of my studies, just one, about the Amish and debunk it instead of throwing a blanket statement that all I post is trash. You can’t. Why? Because you are barely literate.

    If Mercola isn’t spoon feeding you the info, you are lost.

  • Jesus baby

    They certainly don’t seem to have any educational standards for shills at Mercola.

  • Damo

    Nope, just a conscience test. If you have one, you are fired. Good thing for Lowell there, since he has none.

  • Jesus baby

    I just never knew he was a pansy too.

  • Damo

    He does have a good way of avoiding criticism. I gotta admit, his skills at deflection are wonderful. Ask him why he feels a certain way, and it is a nine paragraph diatribe about reposting information (which he never posted the first time so all nine paragraphs are a lie) being a waste of time. He then follows it up with a copy and paste of some study that is unrelated. By the time I get into his reply I am so entirely bored I no longer care.

    His 9 questions are a perfect example of this. Every time I question him about something, he just posts those 9 questions and says” why don’t you answer these questions”–even if the topic is one of those questions. The funny thing is he doesn’t have the intelligence to understand what the subject matter of those questions is so even if you took him seriously and answered the questions he would be just as lost.

    Try going to his website sometime to see how his mind works. It is bizarre.

  • Again. When you can provide one single piece of verifiable data as to what percentage or number of the total Amish population vaccinates, and/or as well what number of Amish have been found with an autism diagnosis, then you will get a response. Otherwise, (and I will say it again), none of your distractions filled garbage is again worth responding to. And I already responded to it, more than once.

  • It explains that, and the answers are obvious within the page that I put together. Do you have any more deflecting from it avoidance and distractions that you can post, in the continued attempted avoidance of that page?

    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Really? And you know that is a lie. So when is the vactruth editor going to actually do some moderating here? Anything goes, at vactruth, and with no moderation at all. You deserve to be banned, so called Damo. Falsely accused sexual harassment, is obviously not acceptable in any form of reply posting, anywhere.

  • No they did not, and you are either lying, or you did not review those study lists at all. Many of those studies entirely supported homeopathy, as effective.

  • So you are admitting that you can not read and comprehend that definition. If I can do it, why can you not do it? More false excuses. Stop dancing around it for an additional dozen or more reply posts, and just get to answering the questions, and as many of them as you can? You people are claiming to be the purveyors of the science. Are you now saying that isn’t true? I have always stated that was not ever true. Now we have direct proof of it, as well.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Jesus baby

    Whenever you want we can continue.

  • Damo

    Ok, than post one of the studies that says homeopathy is effective, because maybe I can’t understand what I am reading. So why not make it easy for my and show me which of those studies says that homeopathy works?

  • Damo

    I am just repeating what you have told me in the past.

  • Damo

    No, I need you to explain it to me. You seem to claim that you have a grasp and I don’t, so explain it to me.

  • Damo

    No you didn’t. All you are proving is that you have no idea what the studies say. Why not prove that my links are wrong? Why not explain to me why those studies are wrong? Why not copy and paste the information yourself? Is it possible that you just don’t understand, just like everything else.

  • Damo

    Poor, poor Lowell. You are like a rat trapped in a corner. You have no idea how to read the scientific literature. You want me to copy and paste the relevant information because you can’t identify it on your own. You post blogs as if they were facts. You have been caught advertising for Mercola and have admitted to me that you would trade sides if the price (i.e. sexual favors) was right.

    Now that I have exposed you for the floundering idiot shill that you are, you want to personally insult me. Too bad, it is too late. Everyone can see what a fraud you and your blog are. Your fans are falling away as they realize they have been hoodwinked. Those that stick around are just as deluded as you.

    My mission is accomplished. You and all your fraudulent posts have been exposed. The only left for you to do is admit that you lie and spend your remaining years quietly reflecting on how you can correct all your wrongs.

  • Damo

    “Poor, poor Lowell. You are like a rat trapped in a corner. You have no idea how to read the scientific literature. You want me to copy and paste the relevant information because you can’t identify it on your own. You post blogs as if they were facts. You have been caught advertising for Mercola and have admitted to me that you would trade sides if the price (i.e. sexual favors) was right.

    Now that I have exposed you for the floundering idiot shill that you are, you want to personally insult me. Too bad, it is too late. Everyone can see what a fraud you and your blog are. Your fans are falling away as they realize they have been hoodwinked. Those that stick around are just as deluded as you.

    My mission is accomplished. You and all your fraudulent posts have been exposed. The only left for you to do is admit that you lie and spend your remaining years quietly reflecting on how you can correct all your wrongs.”

  • Damo

    Poor, poor Lowell. You are like a rat trapped in a corner. You have no idea how to read the scientific literature. You want me to copy and paste the relevant information because you can’t identify it on your own. You post blogs as if they were facts. You have been caught advertising for Mercola and have admitted to me that you would trade sides if the price (i.e. sexual favors) was right.

    Now that I have exposed you for the floundering idiot shill that you are, you want to personally insult me. Too bad, it is too late. Everyone can see what a fraud you and your blog are. Your fans are falling away as they realize they have been hoodwinked. Those that stick around are just as deluded as you.

    My mission is accomplished. You and all your fraudulent posts have been exposed. The only thing that is left for you to do is admit that you lie and spend your remaining years quietly reflecting on how you can correct all your wrongs.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Vaccinations created by pharmaceutical companies are highly profitable

    They can’t be any more profitable than homeopathic remedies. Producing water or sugar pills can’t be anywhere near as costly as a vaccine.

    Also why do people advocate a product that not only has no quality controls but it is somewhere between virtually and literally impossible to control for quality?

  • Sonja Henie

    You do not understand vaccine science or the immune system. Vaccines do not attack germs; antibiotics do that. Vaccines prime the immune system to produce antibodies when the person is exposed to a disease.

  • Damo

    Why don’t you explain what both are?

  • Ron Roy

    Johnny I’ve told you this many times NOW PAY ATTENTION. The big profits from vaccinations are in treating all the diseases / health problems CAUSED by vaccines.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and again that sadly doesn’t jibe with any information anywhere. Health insurance companies encourage doctors to vaccinate. Insurance companies lose money if people get more illnesses from a treatment.

  • If you are that ignorant, then that is your problem.

  • The actually trapped rat, is you. Face it. And you again wrote all that continued yourself flailing and floundering mentally defective BS, and complete nonsense, for nothing. Stop falsely attacking and deflecting back onto me, and just answer as many of those questions as you can. It is pretty simple and straight forward; either you can do it, or you can not. Then as obviously you can not, then just simply admit to it; that the clearly needed and necessary vaccine safety studies, have never been done

  • I think you should be banned for making the same repeated posts over and over, and which contain nothing but personally attacking, libelous slander. And did you have any actual relevant facts to present with?

  • So, you might as well just admit to it, and that you can not provide that said, and requested data information. As I said, I already know what your article links contained, (because I actually read them), and that data was not there. You are conducting nothing but an attempted misrepresentation and lying smoke screen.

  • Just another load of BS, and a false deflection from your assigned task. Just admit to it that you can not honestly answer even one of those questions. How many more dozens of posts will you make attempting to evade those questions, and that information? This is NOT about me; it is about the available vaccine safety science. You pro-vax people always claim to be the purveyors of the science, so get to it.

  • All you are actually doing is repeatedly making it up as you go, and lying.

  • Again, you already had those study list pages in front of you, and you ignored them. There needs to be put an end to the BS games that you play, and that all you trolling shills have and continue to play. It is always the same garbage, just a different day.

  • You know what you need to do; so don’t falsely shift anything else to me, until you have responded the questions on that page.

  • Damo

    No, pick one and explain it to me. You can’t because you don’t understand science. I am merely exposing your ignorance and you hate it.

  • Damo

    Whatever. You can lie to me and other people on these forums, but not yourself. How do you sleep at night?

  • Damo

    If it wasn’t about you, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It is you who are in denial about the studies and your understanding of them.
    Like I said, please explain it to me if you know that these studies say something that is actually harmful. If you explain it, I will be a convert.

  • Damo

    It is there, you haven’t read anything. If you did you would be able to debunk them. Oh, just tell me what methods were used, then I will believe you actually read them. Tell me what the results were and what they mean.

  • Damo

    Apparently, your friends agree with me. That must be why I haven’t been banned. The moderator read all of the relevant posts and came to the same conclusion that I and everyone else did. You are a lying, pervert shill.

  • Damo

    Why bring up these questions which have no relevance to the fact that autism rates in the Amish community is something you lied about.

  • Damo

    Because you can’t. Face it, everything you say is a distraction from the fact that you can’t understand what you are talking about.

  • Jesus baby

    I’ll be here.

  • When? Here are your questions. How many can you answer?

    1. Where are the safety studies regarding the vaccine safety of the current CDC vaccine schedule?

    2 Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the known practice of injecting a small child with from 5 and up to nine or more vaccines, in a single day and office visit?

    3. Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to the safety of injecting vaccine aluminum adjuvants?

    4. Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the practice of injecting both vaccines with attenuated live viruses in them, together with as well killed vaccines with aluminum adjuvants in them.

    5. Where are the studies showing the vaccine safety of vaccines which are contaminated with human diploid cell short and long chain DNA contaminants, due to the use of human diploid tissue in the growing of the vaccine antigens in childhood vaccines? Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to any other vaccine that has been known to be contaminated with the substances that the vaccine antigen was grown on, and from?

    6. Where are the vaccinated verses entirely un-vaccinated health outcome studies? Thousands of children still exist in the US, with active vaccine exemptions. The Amish community as well have had thousands of un-vaccinated children within their communities. Just because a small group of Amish were falsely fear mongered into vaccinating and ended up at a clinic in the attempt to diagnose and treat resulting childhood autism; does not mean that the entire Amish community vaccinates, and has been falsely eluded to. Obviously there is no need to not vaccinate, simply to do this study.

    7. In regard to the MMR vaccine. How does the CDC as well continue to ignore this long list of studies showing the harmful effects of, the vaccine injury effects of; and as well in these studies there as well appears be an obvious MMR connection to autism? The controversy does not only revolve around a single 1998 study by Wakefield, and as well a single study connected to the CDC’s, William Thompson. And the so called official word that they tell you is that any vaccine/autism link has been dis-proven, and debunked; right? Really? Lets look further.

    Research References
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

    Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe Official Website
    http://vaxxedthemovie.com/

    REP. Bill Posey Calling for an Investigation of the CDC’s MMR reasearch fraud Rep. Bill Posey brings former CDC researcher and now Whistleblower, Dr. Bill Thompson’s letter regarding significant files they omitted and destroyed to avoid reporting any significant race effects in their study.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4546421/rep-bill-posey-calling-investigation-cdcs-mmr-reasearch-fraud

    CDC Scientist: ‘We scheduled meeting to destroy vaccine-autism study documents’
    https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-scientist-we-scheduled-meeting-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/

    8. Can you explain how it is possible in regard to the comparisons of systemic adverse reactions, for the FDA in the review and in the approval of vaccines through clinical trials, to allow the substitution of saline placebo, a replacement such as other similar vaccines which the FDA has previously approved as safe? If big pharma and the CDC are going to re-assure their claim to the public that vaccines are safe; then why are not real saline placebos required in the comparison of systemic reactions. Lets as well look at the clinical trials on Gardasil. One placebo was the aluminum adjuvant, and the other appears to be HPV virus like particles, in the vaccines carrier solution. It is all in the over 400 page document that Merck submitted to the FDA on their said Gardasil clinical trials. No wonder the comparison between the vaccine and placebo graphs appear to be so similar. And with this going on, the public is actually supposed to retain their assurances of proven vaccine safety? I think not.

    9. Are you aware of the fact that SV40 a known contaminant in the early 1960’s polio vaccine, is still being found in children today, and which are to young to have ever had that known contaminated vaccine? SV40 is as well known to cause benign tumors, and cancer. Are you as well aware of the fact that vaccines today still contain the unresolved risk of there being contaminants in them that can cause and create adverse health effects? Contaminants from any once living animal, or human cell source, on which the vaccine antigens were grown on and from. This is clearly a remaining unresolved problem, and as witnessed again in regard to the vaccine Gardasil.

    Lets also take a look at the existing studies that allegedly show no connection between vaccines and autism. Actually, general vaccine injury, and immunological harm done, and without the evidence of autism, is an equally as serious an issue.

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    And, what did they study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them being independent and nor unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    14 Studies
    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

  • Ruth

    Maybe it’s just religion masquerading as science? Seems to be quite a human condition. And you know what Karl Marx said about it. Puts people to sleep.

  • Ruth

    So they make money from sickness AND health; life AND death. All with the benefit of plausible deniability to cover their backsides. They can call it ‘science’ if they like. It makes sense for a business to cover all angles as much as removing any competition.

  • Jesus baby

    Didn’t you forget to describe in your own words the definition of a randomized trial?

  • Ruth

    There’s a rumor going round that vaccines don’t work either, or if they do, rather less than perfectly and with rather more than abominable side effects than required. They are just hoping nobody notices and if they do, they’ve legislated to deny people justice.

    I think what can be said, is that human beings and their immune systems are rather more complex than the pharmaceutical industrial complex would have us believe.

    Interestingly enough, the definition of homeopathy seems to indicate that vaccinations take a similar approach.

    “a system of complementary medicine in which ailments are treated by minute doses of natural substances that in larger amounts would produce symptoms of the ailment.”

    The only difference is that it’s not considered ‘complementary medicine’, and not enough study has been done into it, or the relative health of unvaccinated populations.

  • “LOL” How do you like being the pathetic joke that you actually are? How about if you faced that? Of course, without a real identity, you could never allow that to happen with a real name put to it. You are the master of stupid distractions and disruptions, as a fact. Lets once and for all see if your pathetic arse, can do anything at all here, as to directly responding to these questions, and additionally this information?

    Again, and lets go over this once more. Here are your questions.

    9 Questions For The Pro-Vaxers

    1. Where are the safety studies regarding the vaccine safety of the current CDC vaccine schedule?

    2 Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the known practice of injecting a small child with from 5 and up to nine or more vaccines, in a single day and office visit?

    3. Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to the safety of injecting vaccine aluminum adjuvants?

    4. Where are the vaccine safety studies regarding the practice of injecting both vaccines with attenuated live viruses in them, together with as well killed vaccines with aluminum adjuvants in them.

    5. Where are the studies showing the vaccine safety of vaccines which are contaminated with human diploid cell short and long chain DNA contaminants, due to the use of human diploid tissue in the growing of the vaccine antigens in childhood vaccines? Where are the vaccine safety studies in regard to any other vaccine that has been known to be contaminated with the substances that the vaccine antigen was grown on, and from?

    6. Where are the vaccinated verses entirely un-vaccinated health outcome studies? Thousands of children still exist in the US, with active vaccine exemptions. The Amish community as well have had thousands of un-vaccinated children within their communities. Just because a small group of Amish were falsely fear mongered into vaccinating and ended up at a clinic in the attempt to diagnose and treat resulting childhood autism; does not mean that the entire Amish community vaccinates, and has been falsely eluded to. Obviously there is no need to not vaccinate, simply to do this study.

    7. In regard to the MMR vaccine. How does the CDC as well continue to ignore this long list of studies showing the harmful effects of, the vaccine injury effects of; and as well in these studies there as well appears be an obvious MMR connection to autism? The controversy does not only revolve around a single 1998 study by Wakefield, and as well a single study connected to the CDC’s, William Thompson. And the so called official word that they tell you is that any vaccine/autism link has been dis-proven, and debunked; right? Really? Lets look further.

    Research References
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

    Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe Official Website
    http://vaxxedthemovie.com/

    REP. Bill Posey Calling for an Investigation of the CDC’s MMR reasearch fraud Rep. Bill Posey brings former CDC researcher and now Whistleblower, Dr. Bill Thompson’s letter regarding significant files they omitted and destroyed to avoid reporting any significant race effects in their study.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4546421/rep-bill-posey-calling-investigation-cdcs-mmr-reasearch-fraud

    CDC Scientist: ‘We scheduled meeting to destroy vaccine-autism study documents’
    https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-scientist-we-scheduled-meeting-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/

    8. Can you explain how it is possible in regard to the comparisons of systemic adverse reactions, for the FDA in the review and in the approval of vaccines through clinical trials, to allow the substitution of saline placebo, a replacement such as other similar vaccines which the FDA has previously approved as safe? If big pharma and the CDC are going to re-assure their claim to the public that vaccines are safe; then why are not real saline placebos required in the comparison of systemic reactions. Lets as well look at the clinical trials on Gardasil. One placebo was the aluminum adjuvant, and the other appears to be HPV virus like particles, in the vaccines carrier solution. It is all in the over 400 page document that Merck submitted to the FDA on their said Gardasil clinical trials. No wonder the comparison between the vaccine and placebo graphs appear to be so similar. And with this going on, the public is actually supposed to retain their assurances of proven vaccine safety? I think not.

    9. Are you aware of the fact that SV40 a known contaminant in the early 1960’s polio vaccine, is still being found in children today, and which are to young to have ever had that known contaminated vaccine? SV40 is as well known to cause benign tumors, and cancer. Are you as well aware of the fact that vaccines today still contain the unresolved risk of there being contaminants in them that can cause and create adverse health effects? Contaminants from any once living animal, or human cell source, on which the vaccine antigens were grown on and from. This is clearly a remaining unresolved problem, and as witnessed again in regard to the vaccine Gardasil.

    Lets also take a look at the existing studies that allegedly show no connection between vaccines and autism. Actually, general vaccine injury, and immunological harm done, and without the evidence of autism, is an equally as serious an issue.

    As for their known epidemiological studies.

    And, what did they study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely unvaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them being independent and nor unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”
    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these
    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine
    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    14 Studies
    http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

    Vaccines Market worth $57.8 Billion by 2019
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccines-market-worth-578-billion-by-2019-289805011.html

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    Aluminum

    Debunking Aluminum Adjuvant, Part 1
    Debunking Aluminum Adjuvant, Part 2
    The Foundation for Al Adjuvant Safety Is False
    RETRACTED PAPER: Brain Damage from Al Adjuvant and Gardasil
    UPDATE: Adjuvant Transport Gets Complicated
    Aluminum Adjuvant Injection Experiment #1: 100mcg/kg
    Aluminum Adjuvant Injection Experiment #2: 300mcg/kg
    Aluminum Adjuvant Injection Experiment #3: 550mcg/kg
    Toxic Aluminum Overdose From Vaccines
    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct
    Vaccine Aluminum Travels Into The Brain
    Natural, Science-Based Treatment for Aluminum Toxicity

    Immune Activation

    Response to Charges of “Cherry-Picking” (List of Abstracts)
    New Kid On The Block: IL-17a
    Two Vaccines With Opposite Effects On Brain Development
    Part 1: Immune Activation and Autism
    Part 2: Interleukin-6 and Autism
    Part 3: Immune Activation Causes Autism in Monkeys
    Part 4: Postnatal Immune Activation
    Part 5: Vaccines and Immune Activation

    Read more:
    http://vaccinepapers.org/

    Learn The Risk
    http://www.learntherisk.org/

    Topic: Vaccination: All
    More vaccine-showing the harm done-studies
    http://www.learntherisk.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/vaccine-risk-studies-from-GMI-2.pdf

    Educate For The Vaccine Injured
    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/

    Source:
    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • First, you said that the information as to the number of total Amish that actually vaccinate was in that information, and as to that percentage. You lied, and it was not in that article information. You were asked what the autism rate was in the Amish community, and you said it was in your article information. It was not. You challenged me to show you how your articles were wrong. I told you again what information your articles were missing; and that I had read it. You said it was in there. I asked you to copy and paste that data from the articles and to link to which article it was. You refused, saying that you refuse to copy and paste anything. You didn’t have to, as all you had to do was provide the asked for data.

    After about 30 reply posts that you have made in regard to this subject matter, you are still dancing around this said issue, and in providing the data. All you are doing is making false excuses as to why the Amish can not be included in a fully vaccinated verses entirely un-vaccinated health outcomes study. You do nothing but make false excuses continually as for why the proper and long over-due and needed vaccine safety studies have not been done, and as to why they can never be done. How pathetic is that? What does that as well do to your level of honesty, and credibility? You have nothing to offer here, but repeatedly false excuses, just face it

  • No one actually agrees with you but your associated trolling shills, and which are the only people that ever put likes on your posts. Only an idiot would think you haven’t been banned, simply because the editor agrees with you. In your warped mind, you can obviously make yourself believe anything that you want to.

  • If it is there, you could give me that said data; and you yet have nothing. You were asked specifically and in no uncertain terms, for that data. Those were simple questions that any third grader could have understood. Either provide the data, or give it up. You have had dozens of reply posts to provide it, and still you continue to play your sick hide and seek games, and no matter how specifically that said Amish data is and has been asked for.

  • Only in your twisted mind is it about me, and in that it continues to be only about me. Again, this is simply because you can not honesty respond to the real vaccine issues. And again, this is not about the studies that you know I have.

    This is about the specific vaccine safety studies asked for, and that you obviously do not have. You see now matter how much this is about you, and in providing the required evidence of vaccine safety, you simply turn it all around again and in continuing to ignore that; and then just falsely focus back on me, as false method of defection from what you actually and obviously need to answer to.

  • “LOL” There are no lies going on here at all, on my part. And you; how do you sleep at night, obviously knowing what a cowardly, sick, twisted, and lying trolling shill that you are? Grow some balls and as well use a real identity. I have been using a real identity since 2009, and because I believe in the mission and the need of the vaccine truth being exposed, that much. If all I was putting forth was smokescreen filled misleading BS like you do, I would use a character name, or a false identity name, and like you do, and as well like all your fellow crony trolling shills do.

  • Obviously you don’t understand science, or you would have addressed those studies the first time the were in front of you. And why is it that you can’t answer as well any of those 9 questions? You just continue to waste my time, and that is all you ever intend to do.

  • And in your continued desperately crazed for false excuses mind, you are still using that false excuse? Get started on answering those questions, directly. How deliberately and falsely deflecting foolish, do you look at this point?

  • Jesus baby

    I guess you don’t want the answers.

  • Damo

    What do you mean address those studies, I am asking you to do that, since I am soil stupid. You can’t. That is my point,you don’t know what the science says and mean to distract me from your ignorance by bringing up unrelated questions.
    Not that I blame you, the only training you had for the job of shilling was obviously in-between lovemaking session s with whoever hired you.

  • Damo

    Another distraction. You merely want to harass me off line. You know as well as I do that you are too dumb to grasp science.

  • Damo

    Vaccine safety has-been proven time after time. Lies about autism, homeopathy, the Amish, and any number of other claims you have made has not. And you are a known shill.

  • Damo

    And I told you to give it to me to prove that you understand the material. Which you don’t. That much is known. if it doesn’t say what I claim, you could prove it. But you can’t. You can’t prove anything. But I have proven that you are a lying shill that is only interested in wherehus next lover comes from.

  • Damo

    The editor is laughing at you. Face it, the only one caught shilling was you, and even the moderator of this website Gea a kick out of me proving that you are a sex crazed shill.

  • Damo

    I never said the Amish should be or should not be included in any outcomes study. I said the blog post you linked to was incorrect. The information was in the many links I posted, including the autism rates of the amish. You just don’t know how to read scientific literature. Go away Lowell, you play the same stupid game with everyone, deflect you own ignorance by asking 9 questions that you know don’t have an answer. Pretending that my information isn’t there and pretending that opinions are the same as facts.

    Mercola couldn’t pay me enough to compromise my principles. Shame you don’t have any.

  • Damo

    Why not respond to my request to prove the Amish don’t get vaccinations? That is what started this, and you still haven’t done so.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So they make money from sickness AND health;

    Who is “they”? Insurance companies can’t make money from people getting sick. Especially off vaccines, if as Ron suggests that they lead to illnesses that make more money for the hospitals and doctors than the vaccines cost.

    They can call it ‘science’ if they like.

    It’s scientists which call what gets produced in medical journals science. Certainly more than the half-baked theories of people who don’t really seem to have a firm grasp of economics.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ron’s theory about vaccines being profitable by creating other illnesses? Yes. That is most definitely attempting to masquerade as science.

  • Ron Roy

    The organizations that own Science Journals are very careful not to say anything, in those journals, that would upset their biggest advertisers the pharmaceutical industry and the same goes fro most newspapers, TV networks, radio stations. Whoever pay the fiddler calls the tune, Don’t let paid shills like Jonathan deceive you he any a dozen or more people like him scan the internet to find any articles that tell the truth about vaccines and they try to denigrate those articles and the people who support them.

  • Ron Roy

    Insurance companies are are also duped into thinking vaccines are beneficial but give it time the tide is turning,

  • Jonathan Graham

    Insurance companies have infinitely more resources than you ever will to determine what does and doesn’t make them money. Kaiser Permanente has over 10 million clients. Which means they could detect a change of 2 in 10 000 between people with more or less vaccination. Since clearly that’s far less than what you think the risk of vaccines are it’s unlikely there’s any profit to pharmaceutical companies through sequela from vaccines.

    Sorry. That’s just what the evidence demands.

  • As I said, because you do not have any evidence, that they do. So how many more posts will you make, and without providing the specific data that I asked for? And how many more direct questions will you continue to keep dancing around?

  • So again, if that is true, why have you still refused to provide that direct data, that which I asked for? All you have to do is give us that data. Are you really that incapable? Oh, that’s right, you never actually had any such said, data.

  • Actually he said he was reviewing it tonight; and apparently he did not even know what has been going on. It is all up to him in regard to if or not he finds it acceptable for trolling shills like you to continue to ruin this site, with the false personally attacking garbage that you post.

  • I can and have proven that you can not provide the data on how many of the total Amish population vaccinate, and how many have an autism diagnosis. You simply can not provide a number, or a percentage of that population. So how is that lying about anything? Just provide the said data?

  • Then why can you not provide the said data that I asked for in regard to the Amish? And if that is so, then why can you not answer even one of those 9 questions, in regard to the existing and available vaccine safety study science?

  • Harass you offline? How, and where; and what would be the point to that? You really do have a paranoid, cowardly, and a falsely inflated image of yourself. The person who is actually to dumb to grasp the reality of the existing vaccine safety study science here, is again and actually you. If that were not true, you would be able to directly answer all 9 questions. You have failed to answer even as much as one single question. Get started.

    http://www.vacfacts.info/9-questions-for-the-pro-vaxers.html

  • Again, I previous put forth articles right in front of you that were referenced with specific studies that support, and show the effectiveness of homeopathy. You ignored that; and that is your problem, not mine.

  • Damo

    No you didn’t. You put forth studies that claim that homeopathy is no more effective than placebos. Your failure to understand is your problem.

  • Damo

    You fail to understand the irrelevance of your questions. And why would you want my identity if not to harass me?

  • Damo

    Let me explain it again, than I am done. You posted a blog, not a study, that said the author could only find 3 Amish children that were vaccinated among many other lies. I replied with not onlye personal feelings on the matter, but host of links that showed why that blog post was a bunch of lies. I included in those links actual science that backed me up. You said I was lying about my personal observations and called the science trash. Everything you want to know I’d in those links, but that would require an ability to read and understand scientific writings. You don’t have that.

    Stop lying, stop shilling, stop posting in general.

  • Damo

    Read the links you dummy.

  • Damo

    Whatever Lowell, even your buddies know what a scumbag you are.

  • Damo

    Lowell, I told you to read the studies. You are either lying or too dumb to recognize data.

  • Damo

    Liar.

  • Damo

    In my post, I stated that they are not against vaccination, not that they vaccinate at the same rate.
    I provided data, you refuse to look at it. Furthermore, you are the one that lied about their vaccination and autism rates. You made the claim that they don’t vaccinate AND they don’t get autism with no evidence. I merely presented my evidence to destroy that blog post you consider to be evidence. You have not provided ANY evidence of any of your claims. I will tell you that it seems that the rate of vaccinations in at least one of these studies was 21%–which you will use against me, without realizing that the sample size was only a handful of people.

    You should be providing proof for your claims. I did you a solid by providing you the studies. Now read through them and find me the data that backs up your lie. Not a blog post about the Amish not using pesticides or GMOs (another lie), but use these studies I provided you with(or ones of your own)to present to me the fact that the Amish don’t vaccinate. Your claim, not mine.

    Now, next time you decide to comment, how about including facts, and not more of your perversion.

  • shelley

    My dog was diagnosed by a vet as having Thrombocytopenia. His platelets fell to dangerous levels and were continuing to fall. The vet had no alternatives except heavy duty steroids which would give our dog maybe a 50/50 chance of survival. We started homeopathy and our dog’s platelets steadily came back up and he lived another 6 years in perfect health. Placebo, little white pills that don’t work you say? I think not.

  • sabelmouse

    unless it was our power of positive thought ;) i could live with that too.

  • shelley

    Fact: the vaccine industry is not regulated and held to the rigors like the regular pharmaceuticals are. This a mostly a free for-all-industry. For instance, the Gardasil vaccine was put on “fast tract”, tested for six months and put on the market. According to the CDC VAERS, there have been deaths, permanent damage, seizures, thousands of adverse incidents requiring hospitalization, etc.

    Also, the FDA has said that there must be a an efficacy rate in the 90th percentile. Yet, the flu shot had an efficacy of 18% last year and they are still poisoning people with Thermerisol (a mercury base neurotoxin) and formaldehyde which, according to a Australian study is carcinogenic at any level. Yes, this is what you are putting in your body when you get a flu shot and then you have a 72% chance that you will get the flu anyway. Hepatitis B vaccines given to children hours old with immature livers??? How many babies do you know are having unprotected sex and sharing dirty needles (that is how you get Hep B)? This vaccine has been shown to help babies whose mothers are intravenous drug users have a lower risk of liver cancer. That group is estimated to be less than 3% of the population at best. Why are we subjecting 97% of babies born today to this vaccine? 18% of the children at Disneyland who came down with measles had been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. How many children died of measles before this vaccine was put on the market? — 0.00085. According to a pediatrician, “healthy children do not die from common childhood diseases”.

    Talk about unscientific, greedy, irresponsible SCIENCE??? It is a scam folks.
    Everything I have said here can be found on the CDC website. Check it out FOR YOURSELF. Doctors get kickbacks from the drug companies if their patients are fully immunized on schedule.

  • Joel W

    Why can’t safe vaccines be found? Because its by design. Slow kill process

  • Abby

    Can you tell me what kind of treatment you did for your dog? A good friend of mine has this same problem with low platelets with her dog. Nothing the Vet has done is working, she would be grateful for this info.

  • Jonathan Graham

    the vaccine industry is not regulated and held to the rigors like the regular pharmaceuticals are.

    Sure they are.

    the Gardasil vaccine was put on “fast tract”, tested for six months and put on the market.

    No, fast tracking is available for a wide range of pharmaceutical products. The minimum response time for a fast track substance is 6 months. Response doesn’t guarantee a license. In the particular case of Gardasil you can see that studies were in progress at least two years before the FDA grant of the licence. Study 018 started in 2004 for example.

    According to the CDC VAERS, there have been deaths, permanent damage, seizures, thousands of adverse incidents requiring hospitalization, etc.

    No according to VAERS there are reports of events which happened after vaccination. One only needs to read VAERS cases to see that they are filled with things which are clearly unrelated to vaccination.

    the FDA has said that there must be a an efficacy rate in the 90th percentile. Yet, the flu shot had an efficacy of 18% last year

    Seroconversion has to occur at a particular rate to provide herd immunity that’s not the same thing as protection. Herd immunity isn’t fixed at 90% it varies with the R0 – infectiousness of the disease.

    still poisoning people with Thermerisol (a mercury base neurotoxin)

    However it is not being administered in the few vaccines it’s still in in doses anywhere near those which are neurotoxic. In fact most people take more of a neurotoxic risk drinking coffee (caffeine is a neruotoxin)

    and formaldehyde which, according to a Australian study is carcinogenic at any level.

    That’s hard to believe since your body synthesizes formaldehyde.

    and then you have a 72%

    Most years the risk is less than 40%.

    How many babies do you know are having unprotected sex

    None however that’s not the only way to get Heb B.

    18% of the children at Disneyland who came down with measles had been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.

    Clearly herd immunity works then – since those 18% were being protected by the much larger group of people who were successfully vaccinated. Until a group of unvaccinated people painted a big red viral target on themselves.

    How many children died of measles before this vaccine was put on the market? — 0.00085.

    At least one in a thousand had encephalitis as a result of measles infections – this might not kill you but can have serious consequences. Pneumonia in 1 in 20 which is potentially deadly but also injurious. We are discovering new things about disease all the time too. For example about 1 in 5,555 measles patients will die of SSPE. There is no treatment – death is almost certain.

  • Ron Roy

    Insurance companies would not be allowed, by the government, to exclude people who are vaccinated even if they wanted too.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Insurance companies would not be allowed, by the government, to exclude people who are vaccinated even if they wanted too.

    Well a) That’s utterly incorrect. There are only a few things that you can’t restrict on as covered in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. b) As has been brought up by several vaccine critical folk. Insurance companies are not just NOT discriminating. They are actually compensating doctors to insure complete vaccination. If that wasn’t worth the money they wouldn’t do it.

    So the insurance companies who have somewhere between one and ten million times the information that you ever will if you studied for the rest of your life. Who’s main desire is to make money. Are PAYING to see that vaccines get done.

  • shelley

    Can you please give me your resources for the statements you are making? The vaccine industry is not held to the same standards as regular pharmaceuticals are. YOUR SOURCE?
    Go ahead and inject mercury and formaldehyde in your body. I don’t care to. Read the Australian study on how formaldehyde is carcinogenic AT ANY LEVEL. See for yourself. Also FYI: A subsequent study by CDC published in JAMA in 2013 has shown that autism rates dropped in Denmark every year for ten consecutive years after Thimerosal’s removal from vaccines (Grenborg et al. JAMA Pediatrics 2013). And you really think it is OK to give this to children/adults??

    Gardasil Vaccine For HPV: Taken from VAERS Reports
    (Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System) Only an MD can report these
    reactions. As of March 2013. This can be found on the CDC and FDA website.
    Adverse events – 29,362
    Deaths – 133
    Serious Events – 3,963
    Disabled – 935
    Life threatening events – 551
    Did not recover – 5,875
    Emergency room visits – 10,335
    Extended hospital stay – 227
    Dr. Northrup, a famous OBGYN went on national TV and stated: “Do not give your daughters this vaccine. It is dangerous and has not been adequately tested”. She saw first hand the horrors of what this vaccine was doing to young girls.
    I don’t know what you were ready on VAERS, but these are the statistics.

    Before the MMR vaccine was introduced measles deaths were 0.00085. That does not justify making a vaccine and subjecting everyone to it. Upon researching the medical records of children who died from measles or its complications, these children were immune compromised or failing to thrive. As a pediatrician stated, “healthy children do not die from the common childhood diseases such as measles, mumps and chicken pox”.

    Homeopathy has been proven to work over and over again. It was especially effective in the Spanish Flu Epidemic in the early 1900’s. The research is there, if you care to look at it. It has also been proven by the German scientists that there is molecular structure in homeopathic remedies at a nano particle level. Again, check it out.

    Over 200 years of clinical experience, along with modern research published in The Lancet, Pediatrics, Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal, The British Medical Journal and The British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, Journal of Head Trauma Rehabilitation and Clinical Journal of Pain have all confirmed homeopathy’s effectiveness. Included in some of the research are double-blind clinical trials, especially from the German homeopathic community. WHY DON’T YOU CHECK OUT THIS RESEARCH BEFORE YOU STATE THAT THESE ARE SUGAR PILLS. The use of homeopathy is advocated by the World Health Organization. Its use is commonplace in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, India, Israel, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, the Netherlands, Greece, Australia, New Zealand, and Russia. There are homeopathic hospitals, not to mention scores of homeopathic clinics, in Moscow, France, India, Denmark, Shanghai, and the United Kingdom. The royal family of the United Kingdom has been using homeopathy as its main healthcare modality since the 1840s, and has its own homeopathic physician for consultations. As evidenced by the royal family’s longevity, homeopathy shines forth.
    THE REASON HOMEOPATHY HAS NOT BEEN EMBRACED LIKE IT IS IN THE REST OF THE WORLD IS BECAUSE THE AMA AND BIG PHARMACEUTICALS DO NOT RUN THEIR HEALTH CARE. The rest of the world wants their people to be healthy and strong. They are not ruled by greed and a lack of conscience as in the U.S.

  • shelley

    There have been many adverse reactions reported as a result of receiving almost every vaccination, according to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS),
    which is co-managed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to promote vaccine safety (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration.

    The listed ingredients are taken from the inserts of the drug manufacturers and is updated by the CDC (2015).

    Aluminum—(in12 vaccines): According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, “Aluminum cancause neurologic harm” (1996, pp. 413–416). Stephanie Seneff, PhD, seniorresearch scientist at MIT, agrees with this in a movie about vaccines called Bought,” (Hays & Sheehan, 2014).

    Beta-propiolactone—(In flu and rabies vaccines): According to a research paper done by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (International Agency for Research
    on Cancer, 1999), Beta-propiolactone is carcinogenic to animals and has been classified as a Group 2B possible human carcinogen.

    Gelatin—(in 9 vaccines): Produced from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, demineralized cattle bones, and pork skin. “Severe allergic reactions to MMR vaccine were associated with the presence of antibodies in the blood directed against gelatin,” according to Sakaguchi, Nakayama, and Inouye (1996, pp. 1058–1061). Note: This is a rare occurrence.

    Gentamicin sulfate, polymyxin b,
    and neomycin (antibiotics)—(in 13
    vaccines): The overuse of antibiotics has
    resulted in the development of resistant bacteria. As with any antibiotic, allergic reactions can
    range from mild to life threatening.*

    Glutaraldehyde—(in
    3 vaccines): Glutaraldehyde is also used as a hydrofracking fluid. “Glutaraldehyde (GA) is widely used in the industrial, scientific and biomedical fields. Many adverse health effects on humans have been reported in association with biomedical uses of GA,” according to Takigawa and Endo (2006, p. 75).

    Formaldehyde
    (formalin)—(in 12 vaccines): Formaldehyde is a major component of embalming
    fluid, poisonous if ingested. Reviewed studies have indicated that formaldehyde
    has neurotoxic characteristics and systemic toxic effects on the nervous system
    (Songur, Ozen, & Sarsilmaz, 2010).

    Insect, animal,and human cells—(in 19 vaccines): Some vaccines are prepared using human cells from aborted fetal tissue and human albumin (CDC, 2015). Other vaccines
    are prepared using chick embryos, monkey kidneys, dog kidneys, calf serum, beef
    hearts, chicken protein, beef muscle tissue, beef casein, embryonic guinea pig
    cell cultures, and insect cells. This is problem is that “because they (the animal cells) are injected directly into the bloodstream, they are able to
    change our genetic structure” (Blanck, Li, Pomert, Pollack, & Chen, pp. 1520–1523).

    Mercury (aka
    thimerosal)—(still in 4 vaccines): Mercury is a known neurotoxin. In
    July 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a statement urging the removal of the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal from vaccines (CDC, 1999). Thimerosal has been linked to impaired brain development (Myers, Davidson, & Shamlaye, 1998). Yet, flu shots are being given starting at six months of age.

    Monosodium
    glutamate—(in 6 vaccines): Allergic reactions can range from mild to
    severe.*

    Polysorbate 80 (akaTween 80)—(in eight vaccines): Causes
    infertility in mammals (Gajdová, Jakubovsky, & Války, 1993).

  • shelley

    FYI
    There have been many adverse reactions reported as a result of receiving
    almost every vaccination, according to the Vaccine Adverse Event
    Reporting System (VAERS),
    which is co-managed by the U.S. Centers for
    Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug
    Administration (FDA) to promote vaccine safety (Centers for Disease
    Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration.

    The listed ingredients are taken from the inserts of the drug manufacturers and is updated by the CDC (2015).

    Aluminum—(in12
    vaccines): According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, “Aluminum
    cancause neurologic harm” (1996, pp. 413–416). Stephanie Seneff, PhD,
    seniorresearch scientist at MIT, agrees with this in a movie about
    vaccines called Bought,” (Hays & Sheehan, 2014).

    Beta-propiolactone—(In
    flu and rabies vaccines): According to a research paper done by the
    International Agency for Research on Cancer (International Agency for
    Research
    on Cancer, 1999), Beta-propiolactone is carcinogenic to animals and has been classified as a Group 2B possible human carcinogen.

    Gelatin—(in
    9 vaccines): Produced from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins,
    demineralized cattle bones, and pork skin. “Severe allergic reactions to
    MMR vaccine were associated with the presence of antibodies in the
    blood directed against gelatin,” according to Sakaguchi, Nakayama, and
    Inouye (1996, pp. 1058–1061). Note: This is a rare occurrence.

    Gentamicin sulfate, polymyxin b,
    and neomycin (antibiotics)—(in 13
    vaccines): The overuse of antibiotics has
    resulted in the development of resistant bacteria. As with any antibiotic, allergic reactions can
    range from mild to life threatening.*

    Glutaraldehyde—(in
    3
    vaccines): Glutaraldehyde is also used as a hydrofracking fluid.
    “Glutaraldehyde (GA) is widely used in the industrial, scientific and
    biomedical fields. Many adverse health effects on humans have been
    reported in association with biomedical uses of GA,” according to
    Takigawa and Endo (2006, p. 75).

    Formaldehyde
    (formalin)—(in 12 vaccines): Formaldehyde is a major component of embalming
    fluid, poisonous if ingested. Reviewed studies have indicated that formaldehyde
    has neurotoxic characteristics and systemic toxic effects on the nervous system
    (Songur, Ozen, & Sarsilmaz, 2010).

    Insect,
    animal,and human cells—(in 19 vaccines): Some vaccines are prepared
    using human cells from aborted fetal tissue and human albumin (CDC,
    2015). Other vaccines
    are prepared using chick embryos, monkey kidneys, dog kidneys, calf serum, beef
    hearts, chicken protein, beef muscle tissue, beef casein, embryonic guinea pig
    cell
    cultures, and insect cells. This is problem is that “because they (the
    animal cells) are injected directly into the bloodstream, they are able
    to
    change our genetic structure” (Blanck, Li, Pomert, Pollack, & Chen, pp. 1520–1523).

    Mercury (aka
    thimerosal)—(still in 4 vaccines): Mercury is a known neurotoxin. In
    July
    1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a statement urging the
    removal of the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal from vaccines
    (CDC, 1999). Thimerosal has been linked to impaired brain development
    (Myers, Davidson, & Shamlaye, 1998). Yet, flu shots are being given
    starting at six months of age.

    Monosodium
    glutamate—(in 6 vaccines): Allergic reactions can range from mild to
    severe.*

    Polysorbate 80 (akaTween 80)—(in eight vaccines): Causes
    infertility in mammals (Gajdová, Jakubovsky, & Války, 1993).

  • shelley

    Aids Nosode 200C one dose. You will have to get this from a homeopath. Phosphorus 30C weekly until platelets returned to normal levels. This took a couple of months.

  • Jonathan Graham

    YOUR SOURCE?

    FDA regulations for approval. You claimed that Gardasil being fast tracked was an example of different regulatory measures. However fast tracking is something that can be done with any pharmaceutical product.[1]

    Read the Australian study on how formaldehyde is carcinogenic AT ANY LEVEL

    Read a biology textbook and see that you RIGHT NOW are MAKING formaldehyde IN YOUR BODY – at much higher levels than you will find in vaccines. Ergo, if you’re correct your body is giving you cancer more than any vaccine ever will.

    that autism rates dropped in Denmark every year for ten consecutive years after Thimerosal’s removal from vaccines

    Well the only study from that journal by that author in that year is this one[2] and it’s a study on autism recurrence – that is, what is the likelihood that you have another autistic child if you already have one. It’s not about prevalence. Also other studies have been done on autism rate and thiomersal cessation. One was in Denmark[3] but it, like just about every study on the subject showed a no correlation.

    Before the MMR vaccine was introduced measles deaths were 0.00085.

    I’ve already refuted that. a) It doesn’t include serious but non-fatal effects and b) It doesn’t include fatal effects like SSPE

    Homeopathy has been proven to work over and over again.

    Simply false. Homeopathy is one of the dumbest medical ideas one could subscribe to.

    WHY DON’T YOU CHECK OUT THIS RESEARCH BEFORE YOU STATE THAT THESE ARE SUGAR PILLS.

    Because they are. There is no chemical test on the face of the planet that could successfully differentiate a properly made homeopathic pill from a non-homeopathic pill. In other words you are subscribing to a form of medicine which is impossible to impose quality control on. Does that sound smart to you?

    [1]http://www.fda.gov/ForPatients/Approvals/Fast/ucm405399.htm
    [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4610344/
    [3]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12949291

  • Jonathan Graham

    There have been many adverse reactions reported as a result of receiving
    almost every vaccination,

    The most common being pain…I hear that happens when you put needles in people.

    According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, “Aluminum can cause neurologic harm

    Refuted by[1]

    Beta-propiolactone is carcinogenic to animals and has been classified as a Group 2B possible human carcinogen.

    No information on dosing but since we know that BP was used in surgical procedures we can look at research there and see

    As noted, however, the Henry Ford Hospital testing of the
    1950s cited above in the subsection on non-carcinogenic chronic effects found no human
    toxic effects of any kind from the human exposure to beta-propiolactone during tests of
    plasma infusions pre-treated with the chemical[2]

    So probably not really dangerous.

    Gelatin

    Used in Jell-O. Get a grip.

    Glutaraldehyde

    Is toxic but not carcinogenic[3] however these effects you mention come from use in 2.5% to 5% aqueous sprays. The amount in a vaccine is barely measurable if present at all.

    Formaldehyde

    Like virtually everything on earth, this is poisonous at some arbitrarily high levels. However, it’s also necessary for you to live. At levels much higher than in vaccines.

    Mercury

    Mercury is an element, which is different than a compound. For the same reason it’s not safe to eat chlorine – yet safe to ingest sodium chloride you should avoid conflating these things. As already posted removal of Thiomersal has not resulted in any decrease in autism but virtually all studies. So the idea that it contributes to this is not supported.Monosodium glutamatea) There is no record of an allergy to this substance and reports of sensitivities seem to elude experimental replication.[5]

    MSG technical report concludes, “There is no convincing evidence that MSG is a significant factor in causing systemic reactions resulting in severe illness or mortality. The studies conducted to date on Chinese restaurant syndrome (CRS) have largely failed to demonstrate a causal association with MSG.

    Polysorbate 80

    Yes fertility was affected when 20% of their diet was Polysorbate 80. Lower levels did not show this effect[6]

    [1]http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199705293362203
    [2]https://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2007/Long-Term-Health-Effects-of-Participation-in-Project-SHAD-Shipboard-Hazard-and-Defense/BETAPROPIOLACTONE.pdf
    [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde
    [4]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16612035
    [5]http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/publications/Documents/MSG%20Technical%20Report.doc
    [6]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/027869159390092D

  • shelley

    It is outrageous that you say the side effect of a vaccine is pain.
    There are two children in my family who became autistic after receiving the MMR vaccine. The first one got a high fever within 48 hours and screamed at high pitches for TWO years. The second child became got a high fever and was diagnosed as autistic. He was a beautiful healthy child who was “gone” after receiving this vaccine. At 5 years old he was still in diapers and not talking. He will have to be taken care of for the rest of his life. This is REAL suffering that families all over this country are dealing with.

    To date the Vaccine Court has awarded billions of dollars to parents whose children have been damaged. If these vaccines are so great, why do we, as tax payers, pay excise taxes on every vaccine that is given. These excise taxes go into a fund to pay for vaccine damaged children. The drug companies don’t even have any accountability. Check out, if you will, the CDC whistle blower who said that Merck falsified the findings on autism to the FDA.

    In the face of millions of people on this planet using homeopathy and peer reviewed double-blind studies that have been done, you scoff at its existence?

  • Jonathan Graham

    It is outrageous that you say the side effect of a vaccine is pain

    The most commonly reported side effect of vaccination is injection site pain – have you never looked at VAERS or any of the safety studies done?

    There are two children in my family who became autistic after receiving the MMR vaccine.

    There are many more children who showed signs of autism after breakfast…are you willing to put similar energy into putting down that accursed meal?

    To date the Vaccine Court has awarded billions of dollars to parents whose children have been damaged.

    Vaccine court has awarded money to people based on a really weak bar for evidence. Some of those people may have had actual injury based on known science. However most of them probably do not. There’s a comparative program in Quebec which pays out at 1.2-1.4 people per year.

    If these vaccines are so great, why do we, as tax payers, pay excise taxes on every vaccine that is given. These excise taxes go into a fund to pay for vaccine damaged children

    This is how a no-fault insurance system works. When you have a situation that is difficult or expensive to determine fault you create something like NVICP.

    Check out, if you will, the CDC whistle blower who said that Merck falsified the findings on autism to the FDA.

    Thompson is simply incorrect. I’ve read DeStefano et. al. and Hookers reanalysis and it’s exceptionally unlikely that the original team suppressed any useful information. Thompson is simply a poor statistician.

    In the face of millions of people on this planet using homeopathy and peer reviewed double-blind studies that have been done, you scoff at its existence?

    Please cite a replicated, double blind study on homeopathy with strong controls and large effect size for a clinically relevant outcome with a treatment and control arms of at least 200 in size.

    I scoff at homeopathy because it’s ridiculous. For example I could claim that the t-shirt I’m wearing is an ancient topical homeopathic treatment and there is absolutely no test on the planet that could prove me wrong.

  • shay simmons

    In the face of millions of people on this planet using homeopathy and peer reviewed double-blind studies that have been done, you scoff at its existence?

    It’s tempting to point out the # of things that exist but simply don’t work, such as abstinence-based sex education, or homeopathy.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes, it’s not that I scoff at the very existence of homeopathy. I scoff at the implication that there is any value to people in it.

  • shelley

    All the research that I have quoted has been done by real independent science researchers NOT EMPLOYED by the pharmaceutical industry. You use Wikipedia as a scientific resource, really? I will no longer respond to any of this nonsense.

  • Jonathan Graham

    All the research that I have quoted has been

    …refuted by me. See the main difference here Shelly is I read what you post, then I investigate, then I evaluate the evidence, then I post.

    You on the other hand just regurgitate stuff posted elsewhere. Know how I know? You can’t even respond to my arguments and the studies I post. You haven’t even taken the time to find out that you, right now are producing formaldehyde in your body in amounts greater than that in vaccines. Seriously this is a pretty easy one but all you can do is make empty claims about some study that you can’t even produce.

    Shelly, what you do is the antithesis of thinking and as a consequence what you are is the opposite of smart.

  • rgaura

    Vaccines are classified as biologicals, and they are regulated much more loosely than pharmaceuticals.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Please cite a specific regulation from the FDA which exists for a drug but doesn’t exist for vaccines.

  • Sarah

    Producing water? I think that’s already been taken care of…

  • Sarah

    What the hell constitutes an “independent science researcher”? Some random anti-medicine in their basement on their laptop? Like how does that see more reliable than um, legitimate ones? And then you say Wikipedia can’t be used?? Isn’t that an “independent source”? You don’t know up from down when it comes to this stuff just stop trying because you’ll never be right anyway

  • Sarah

    So when I go on the CDC website, I’m going to see the flu shot had an 18% efficacy rate and thimerosal* is in all of the flu shots? You better hope you’re right, or you’re going to look very foolish.

  • Sarah

    CDC’s end-of-season influenza vaccine effectiveness (VE) estimates for the 2015-2016 season were presented to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) on June 22, 2016. CDC’s adjusted overall VE estimate against influenza A and B viruses for all ages was 47%. The overall VE against A(H1N1)pdm09 was 41% and the overall VE against influenza B was 55%.

    http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2015-2016.htm

    Already fake statistics, took less than a minute not let me debunk that thimerosal is in ALL flu shots

  • Sarah

    AAAAAANd wrong again.
    We want you to know that thimerosal is no longer used in children’s shots, except some types of flu shots. You can ask for a flu shot without thimerosal.

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/faqs.html

  • Sarah

    You’re like really unintelligent. Woah, it’s embarassing

  • Sarah

    Oh my God they make money at their JOB? That’s so sickening!!

  • Jeffersonian

    It’s on the FDA’s website, look for the Black label insert! Secondly, the “Efficacy” is not what you think. That just means they tested people to see if they had the Anti-bodies that they put into the vaccines! It has nothing to do with how it saved people from getting the flu! However, THIS YEAR they admitted it’s only 3%! Go look up this article titled

    3% Effective Flu Vaccine Scrapped for this Influenza Season

    I also recommend watching:
    Vaccination: The Hidden Truth
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/vaccination-the-hidden-truth/

    The documentary is very well researched, and provides a long history of big pharma fraud and how vaccines had nothing to do with the viruses that they claim their vaccines save us from!

  • Jeffersonian

    Go look up the Tripedia manufacturer’s black label insert on the FDA website. It’s the Whooping Cough vaccine (DTap)! Go to page 11 of 13 and read the paragraph in the middle that goes into ADVERSE REACTIONS! What is listed right there in their own words? AUTISM!
    Now that’s just 1 jab! Now imagine how much are kids are at risk of being vaccine damaged with 2 more jabs before they are 3! The CDC and WHO listed Autism as a VACCINE CAUSED SIDE EFFECT! They knew back in the 1970’s that ALL vaccines cause Autism!

  • Sarah

    I NEVER brought up autism, nor do I want to discuss it with you. It has been debunked you should accept that.

  • Sarah

    And no, efficacy means that they are seeing how many people were protected from the flu because of the antibodies from the vaccines. You can have antibodies, but still not have enough to be immune. And there’s no way to predict how effective this year’s is going to be, I don’t know how you think that’s possible. Perhaps you’re thinking of last years? Well that was 60%.
    Your sources are complete garbage, non credible and you are very misinformed.

  • Jeffersonian

    Did you not read the freaking MANUFACTURER’S INSERT that listed AUTISM AS AN ADVERSE REACTION?

    THE FREAKING MANUFACTURER LISTS AUTISM! Go freaking READ their inserts! Go look it up on the FDA’s website!

    I even gave you the page and location! It’s on the FDA’s own website! So, are they lying about the whoooping cough vaccine causing autism in their own big pharma funded study, or are they lying about their drug and hiding the fact by not giving the insert to new parents?

    Every 15 minutes you are told to buy some scary sounding drug, and
    I feel sorry for people that believe everything they her from the Propaganda “News” streams! Do you really think that the media is going to ruin their gravy train? I pray you do the research before jabbing your children! You cannot take back the damage once it’s done!

  • Jeffersonian

    Wrong AGAIN! What they don’t tell you is they use Thimerosal as the preservative to store the Ingredients to all of the vaccine ingredients! Thus, the more ingredients, the more thimerosal that you will get! That also doesn’t take into account the Aluminum that is used for preserving the Vaccine mixtures. So, we now have a little bit of Thimerosal in all of the ingredients added together with Aluminum when they are ready to be combined!

    Yep! You should totally run out and get 10 or 12 shots! After all they did admit that vaccines are “Unavoidably UNSAFE”! Go save the herd!

  • Jeffersonian

    Obviously you are a paid shill because at this point………….

    When you only have name-calling to resort to as your comeback, then you have no comeback!

  • Jeffersonian

    Why don’t you go find us the Study that they’ve done to prove that giving ALL of their vaccines to babies, at the age the CDC says, and that ALL of those vaccines combined and given to them at that age ARE SAFE!?!

    I’ve yet to see any study that shows the accumulative impacts on the CDC schedules that every pediatrician follows! If they are safe, then there shouldn’t be a problem having that study! Especially a study that compares them to children that don’t receive any jabs (especially jabs with preservatives like they do in all of their studies to hide the fact that the preservatives are causing the problems)!

  • Jeffersonian

    I will even pay Jonathan $1,000 today if he can find the results of a study that shows where the CDC conducted safety trials on the long-term accumalative impacts of giving their shots at the intervals they mandate, against children that never get vaccinated with any preservatives!

    Since you are saying they’ve done all of the studies proving they are safe, that shouldn’t be a problem for you to find!

    Where you find an “Anti-Vaxxer” Mom, you will find a FORMER Pro-Vaxxer Mom that had their child(ren) damaged by vaccines!

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ve yet to see any study that shows the accumulative impacts on the CDC schedules that every pediatrician follows!

    I’ll point out two things:

    a) This is a higher standard than is applied to every other pharmaceutical. As no pharmaceutical is tested
    b) This is to a reasonable degree done. A vaccine is usually tested in-schedule. So you are effectively seeing it’s effect with previous vaccines.

  • Sarah

    Normally it’s you guys who run out of comebacks, I was just following suit

  • Sarah

    That is so untrue. Source?

  • Sarah

    I’m treat patients as an RN, so I think I’ve read the inserts. And know how I will handle my children, thanks for your concern.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Do you just repeat the same old copy/pasta over and over again? Explain this in your own words.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    “Without regard to causation”!

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    The package insert says “WITHOUT REGARD TO CAUSATION”. Do you know what that means? I don’t think so.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Anything, and I mean ANYTHING with the word “truth” in it, is not truthful.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    And thimerosal is not in all flu shots. In fact, about 2/3 of the US flu vaccine is thimerosal-free this year.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Allow me to add:
    “If these vaccines are so great, why do we, as tax payers, pay excise
    taxes on every vaccine that is given. These excise taxes go into a fund
    to pay for vaccine damaged children”

    We the consumers do not pay that vaccine tax. The manufacturer does. It may be passed through, but it’s not a tax at the point of service.

  • Sarah

    That’s what I said. They’re only in the multi dose vials of flu shots. You can ask for a single dose one.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    That’s just what vaccines do-treat like (say, measles) with like (a weakend, controlled amount of measles virus).

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Yes, with these folks you have to be very specific.

  • Jeffersonian

    The FDA (FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION)!

    “Thimerosal has been removed from or REDUCED TO TRACE AMOUNTS IN ALL VACCINES routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). ”

    So how much does “trace” mean? According to the CDC, it says less than or equal to 0.3mcg per dose.

    Now it’s your turn. Show all of us just ONE STUDY that shows that ANY amount of Mercury is safe for children that they’ve determine will not damage their brain!

  • Jeffersonian

    Oh, and while you’re posting that 1 study to show what the safe level of mercury is for children not to be brain damage, Here is a list of SEVENTY-SIX (76) STUDIES SHOWING THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF THIMEROSAL:

    http://preventdisease.com/news/pdf/Thimerosal_Immune_System_Abnormalities.pdf

    SEVENTY-SIX STUDIES WITH SHOWING INCREASING RISK OF AUTISM, GASTRO PROBLEMS, AND IMMUNE SYSTEM PROBLEMS (which pretty much all autistic kids have issues with gastro and/or immunity just like my son has been battling!)

  • Jeffersonian

    The FDA page stating vaccines still have “trace amounts”
    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    That’s pretty good.

  • Ron Roy

    No you try and refute that ” in your own words”.

  • Ron Roy

    I see when real science is presented you try and denigrate it because it blows your theory that vaccines are safe and effective. Sucks to be wrong hey Sarah?

  • Ron Roy

    Why would any company list anything that (according to you) doesn’t cause harm and risk a lawsuit because they listed it as being a possible cause?

  • Ron Roy

    You’ve never read the inserts.

  • Ron Roy

    Jeffersonian is 100% right.

  • Ron Roy

    ”At their best, flu vaccines remain around 50-60% effective according to
    official health statements. However, the World Health Organization’s
    predictions for 2014-2015 flu strains were a bust. The match was such a
    failure that the CDC was forced to warn the American public that the
    vaccine was only 23% effective.[8] Given that the 2012-2013 flu season
    was only 27% effective for the 65 years-plus age group, predictive
    methodologies to determine which flu strains emerge during any given
    influenza season have more in common with medieval divination than sound
    science. For the 1992-1993 and 1997-1998 seasons, the vaccine
    concoction of flu strains was only 16% effective. Katherine Severyn, who
    monitors the actual WHO predictions and compares them with CDC claims
    has stated that, “depending upon the study cited, [flu] vaccine efficacy
    actually ranges from a low of 0%.”

  • Jonathan Graham

    I nearly said something like that on the Catholic board today.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Could you point out one from that list which is statistically strong?

  • Jonathan Graham
  • Jonathan Graham

    that would upset their biggest advertisers the pharmaceutical industry

    Already disproved Ron. Advertising is a tiny fraction of the income for journals. I’ve provided this reference many times.

    Journals publishing revenues are generated primarily from academic library subscriptions (68-75% of the total revenue), followed by corporate subscriptions (15-17%), advertising (4%), membership fees and personal subscriptions (3%), and various author-side payments (3%) (RIN, 2008).[1]

    [1]http://www.stm-assoc.org/2012_12_11_STM_Report_2012.pdf

  • Not to mention how much more pharma companies would make from natural immunity.

  • Learn the difference between compounds and elements.

  • Yes, you have told us this many times. But again, learn the difference between claims and evidence.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Because it’s a legal, not medical, document.

  • Sarah

    I’ll let you know when I’m wrong brah

  • Sarah

    Oh…..okay. I could’ve sworn I had. But you would know better than I.

  • Sarah
  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Jonathan did a good job a month ago.

  • Sarah

    Citation please for that last part?
    And I’ll take 50-60% over nothing. It sucks that it’s not perfect but I’m not gonna pout and say “well just forget the whole thing then”

  • Ron Roy

    You forgot the 23% effective and the 16% effective or the fact that effective doesn’t mean protective.

  • Ron Roy

    That answer doesn’t make any sense at all.

  • Ron Roy

    But Johnny their subscribers like academic libraries, receive a lot of their funding from drug companies so it wouldn’t be wise for any medical journal to publish anything that would harm the profits of the drug industry. Johnny it’s know as the MEDICAL MAFIA. One hand washes the other.

  • AutismDadd

    But WHY are there thimerosal free ones if there is no issue?

  • AutismDadd

    They won’t watch that, its contains evidence. Evidence is their cryptonite

  • AutismDadd

    Not enough antibodies? Buh Wah Ha Ha. Science has shown people who have almost no apparent ability to produce antibodies can be immune to common viruses. Vaccines over produce for no good reason. Its an experiment based on a simple thought that more is better. It creates a TH2 response when a TH1 should be the first line of defense,

  • AutismDadd

    CDC…ZERO credibility

  • AutismDadd

    You invented that so I agree

  • AutismDadd

    MMR makers GlaxoSmithKline and MERCK (synonymous with consumer death) largely funded the British Medical Journal at the time Wakefield et al were trying to help 12 ill children. Who runs the BMJ? Well none other than the General Medical Council. And who did Brian Deer write for? The BMJ. Who paid Deer to attend the trial? The BMJ.

  • AutismDadd

    They actually wash their hands? Oh yea the blood…

  • AutismDadd

    Hilarious. So simple. If vaccines educate the immune system why do they teach it to overreact in TH2 mode? Why do they teach it to create fainting, weakness, seizure disorders and death? So vaccines teach the immune system to malfunction.

  • AutismDadd

    Do some research!

  • AutismDadd

    The injection method is the problem. As we see they try sprays etc to avoid it, but since vaccines barely work in any manor, sprays and patches are failing too.

  • AutismDadd

    Providing evidence doesn’t work. Only what CDC says is accepted. The OFFICIAL WORD trumps evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    Liar. 75 cents per vaccine paid by consumers.

  • AutismDadd

    Why? Thimerosal is a nutrient like aluminum according to Offit.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea it means if you think we will provide evidence think again.

  • AutismDadd

    w/o providing evidence!

  • AutismDadd

    Strawman

  • AutismDadd

    Wow a professional harasser at work.

  • AutismDadd

    What a joke. Wikipedia an independent source? Its garbage.

  • AutismDadd

    It would be much easier to inform us if you are ever right.

  • AutismDadd

    What? Your ilk DEMANDS evidence then you ask for her own words? Make up your mind.

  • AutismDadd

    Exactly. They can create cradle to grave customers.

  • AutismDadd

    What blah blah. Insurance companies are not registering for bankruptcy.

  • AutismDadd

    And Wakefield et al were just doing their jobs, then told to not do it so well or else.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Is it time for your harassing of people again?

    It’s not a strawman. Both points were being addressed in their article.

  • AutismDadd

    Actually insurance companies also make money from health and illness.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The only person harassing people is you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Partially because vaccines are safe and effective.

  • AutismDadd

    Jon G is quite heartless. He claims to have children…shudder..

  • AutismDadd

    Why do they avoid doing anything? Well it would create evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    Ever notice anorexia listed under adverse effects? But as we see anorexia increase we are told by Psychiatry these children want to be models. Now that’s science…. snicker!

  • AutismDadd

    No you want to avoid being exposed as a sufferer of Blind Faith Syndrome.

  • AutismDadd

    Huh? What are you treating them for that requires reading inserts? Do you read it to them?

  • AutismDadd

    Yawn. Rather lame H.M.

  • AutismDadd

    Comparing apples and oranges isn’t going to come to any worthy conclusion.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The correct answer isn’t always exciting. If you want excitement … try the jumble.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That’s yet another adage which isn’t really that correct. There are lots of useful ways to compare apples and oranges.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Yes, me big time today.

  • Jonathan Graham

    But Johnny their subscribers like academic libraries, receive a lot of their funding from drug companies

    So you agree that journals get almost no funding from pharmaceutical companies right? Academic libraries are funded by their university and they have tens of thousands to millions of periodicals. Pharmaceutical companies aren’t going to even know what they have on catalog.

    Not to mention we’ve already demonstrated that journals publish articles which are critical of pharmaceutical companies.

  • Ron Roy

    ”Could you point out one from that list which is statistically strong?” OMG Johnny wants to play with his calculator again! Ignore him.

  • Ron Roy

    Not safe and NOT protective.

  • Ron Roy

    If you don’t like people correcting your mistakes then remain silent or be made to look foolish.

  • Mike Stevens

    No, the excise tax is levied on the Vaccine manufacturers.

    It is 75c per component, so the tax on one dose of MMR will be $2.25, for example.

  • Mike Stevens

    ” Secondly, the “Efficacy” is not what you think. That just means they
    tested people to see if they had the Anti-bodies that they put into the
    vaccines! It has nothing to do with how it saved people from getting
    the flu! “

    Oh dear…
    Jefferson, “vaccine efficacy” is defined as the proportionate reduction in disease attack rate between unvaccinated and vaccinated study cohorts. It doesn’t use antibody testing. [And nobody “puts antibodies into vaccines”, btw]
    Efficacy is also somewhat different from “vaccine effectiveness” which is the real-life reduction in disease.

    Here is a useful explanation, so you don’t have to be confused in future: http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/201/11/1607.full

    “3% Effective Flu Vaccine Scrapped for this Influenza Season”

    That was last year’s LAIV, an unusually low protection level.
    And it was for only that particular vaccine, which accounts for a tiny minority of the overall flu vaccine products in general use.

    Overall effectiveness for 2015-16 was 47%.
    http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectiveness-studies.htm

  • Mike Stevens

    And when you play the shill card, you are admitting you have lost the argument.

  • Mike Stevens

    He looks foolish already, even without the evidence from the CDC flu data.

  • Mike Stevens

    Aluminum is not a preservative. It is an adjuvant.
    Why are you even here when you haven’t got the faintest idea what you are talking about?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry, statistically strong evidence says “safe and effective”

  • Jonathan Graham

    Because being able to evaluate evidence isn’t important to you?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Autism Dadd targets people for harassment. It’s wrong.

  • Mike Stevens

    Saline is in most vaccines too.
    I am surprised you didn’t also cite the list of 2200 papers demonstrating that chlorine is toxic.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=chlorine+toxicity

  • Mike Stevens

    Go to the Tripedia insert at the top of page 14, and see how it also causes accidental drowning and motor vehicle accidents!
    You see, jefferson, they are legally obliged in post marketting analyses to record EVERY significant event, whether it is thought to be due to the vaccine or not.
    Hence autism is mentioned.

  • Mike Stevens

    Looky here (page 11)
    “Causes of deaths included seven SIDS, and one of each of the following: enteritis, Leigh Syndrome, adrenogenital syndrome, cardiac arrest, motor vehicle accident, and accidental drowning. All of these events occurred more than two weeks post immunization.”

    You see.. these are EVENTS recorded after vaccination, not suspected vaccine reactions. Legally the manufacturer has to report all significant events in trials or post licensing studies.

  • You mean the adverse event without regard to causation part?

  • Two words: Labelling defect.

    Hint: It’s something you can sue for.

  • Ron Roy

    AutismDadd has to correct your mistakes all the time.

  • Ron Roy

    But not ( l o o k v e r y c a r e f u l l y a t w h a t I’ m s a y i n g ) but NOT protective.

  • Ron Roy

    Hey Johnny critique this:” In 1995, Golding and Scott,2
    published the need for strategies to make vaccines that would generate
    the “required” Th cell to the corresponding microorganism. Since that
    time, attempts to produce vaccines that would generate a “natural”- type
    response have failed. So, we are left with vaccines that generate
    “protective” responses as a second choice. How does this work? In
    vaccine-induced Th2 responses, called humoral responses, the body
    produces large quantities of specific antibodies that block the virus
    from entering cells. This response is why a vaccinated child doesn’t get
    a full blown infection and why the child won’t spread as many viruses
    into the environment. However, antibodies cannot get into cells to
    eliminate viruses once the viruses are in the cells or cannot kill
    infected cells themselves. Therefore, the body has no choice other than
    to internalize the virus and be chronically infected when the body is
    forced into a Th2 antibody response. The body is essentially constipated
    with viruses that it cannot expel!”

  • Ron Roy

    Labeling defect.? You’re trying to say the drug companies actually put something that is listed on the information that comes with vaccines by MISTAKE?

  • Ron Roy

    Standard shill reply when no logical explanation can be given. Compounds are made up of elements. Does that negate the fact that mercury is one of those elements that make up a compound?

  • Jonathan Graham

    You shouldn’t encourage harassment Ron.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, if a vaccine is effective it’s going to protect you.

  • Ron Roy

    IF. But they’re not.

  • shay simmons

    critique this

    In 1995 two researchers stated that vaccines could be improved. Who would argue with that?

    The rest of your copy/paste (which, as usual you don’t credit; what is it about you and plagiarism, Ron?) is an article, “How Do Vaccines Work?” by chiropractor Stephen C. Marini from Pathways to Family Wellness, a woo site.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and the statistically strong evidence says they are. Sorry.

  • AutismDadd

    Parents pay. Maybe the perpetrators pay too, but parents pay.

  • AutismDadd

    And the point of that would be what? Oh yea WASTING research money!

  • AutismDadd

    As if exciting and J Graham go together….

  • AutismDadd

    You sound like that Austrian who seems to have disappeared. Can’t remember his name and who cares right?

  • AutismDadd

    Still frustrated because I trounced you about that 350 measles cases with ZERO deaths? Remember the KILLER DISEASE?

  • AutismDadd

    And your posts aren’t snarky? Pot meet Kettle

  • Ron Roy

    But the ORIGINAL PAPER was from a respected SCIENCE JOURNAL. Don’t forget to mention that. Plagiarism would mean that I said I wrote that paper. I didn’t.

  • AutismDadd

    Cop out

  • AutismDadd

    Sorr,y manipulated and cooked statistically strong (odor) evidence.

  • Ron Roy

    He did say that real often didn’t he. That was Thomas Mohr.

  • AutismDadd

    Insurance companies will NOT pay for vaccine injuries though.

  • AutismDadd

    shay used that big word w/o knowing its meaning…snicker

  • shay simmons

    Plagiarism would mean that I said I wrote that paper. I didn’t.

    Plagiarism is you copy/pasting a comment without attribution. You did.

  • AutismDadd

    OMG now I remember. You could bait him over and over. I think he had a nervous breakdown

  • shay simmons

    But the ORIGINAL PAPER was from a respected SCIENCE JOURNAL.

    And the original paper doesn’t support your argument. Or rather, Stephen Marini’s argument.

  • AutismDadd

    May be part of the COINCIDENCE Theory

  • Ron Roy

    Yes it did.

  • Ron Roy

    No I didn’t In 1995, Golding and Scott,2 Didn’t you notice the names of those who wrote the paper and the quotation marks I put before and after the article?

  • Ron Roy

    shay doesn’t know anything about vaccines either.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You harass people Autism Dadd. Stop it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope.

  • shay simmons

    Ron…as usual, you found something on a kook site that was critical of vaccines. As usual, you copy/pasted it without bothering to read/analyze it, or look at any of the studies it quoted. As usual, you got caught. As usual, you doubled down.

    One must admit that you are consistent.

  • shay simmons

    PUBMED id of the original study is 7625646. Go find the sentence in the Golding & Scott study that says “The body is essentially constipated with viruses that it cannot expel!”

  • shay simmons

    Oh, Ron…you so funny.

    “Labeling defect” is the legal term for not listing everything on the inserts. If you leave it out it can get you sued. From Findlaw:

    “A product may still be considered dangerous even if there was no design flaw and it was manufactured properly. Under general legal principles, a product may be defective “because of inadequate instructions or warnings when the foreseeable risks of harm posed by the product could have been reduced or avoided by the provision of reasonable instructions or warnings by the seller or other distributor…and the omission of the instructions or warnings renders the product not reasonably safe.” In other words, if the manufacturer simply releases the product to the public without any instruction, they can be found liable for resulting injuries.”

  • Diet dee

    No one is forced to take homeopathy, there no consequences for refusing it. Vaccines are mandatory in many situations. And if a vaccine damages you, you have limited options to file a suit. And most people don’t believe vaccines can cause anything more than a headache.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Uh sure, nobody is forced to take homeopathy because it does nothing. Vaccines are mandatory for things like health care workers and school attendance because they actually accomplish something. The provide a strong correlation to disease immunity.

    Not to mention it’s physically impossible to devise a test that someone had actually taken a homeopathic remedy.

  • Diet dee

    Then there is that correlation to disease and injury that few people acknowledge. The flu vaccine is reduces flu infections(sometimes) but weakens the bodies defense against against other diseases. That’s why many people claim that they get sick AFTER the shot.

  • AutismDadd

    Oh OK then. Thanks for the statistically significant nope.

  • AutismDadd

    The media fed tend to develop Blind Faith Syndrome.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Then there is that correlation to disease and injury that few people acknowledge.

    Which might that be.

    The flu vaccine is reduces flu infections(sometimes)

    “mostly” is more accurate.

    weakens the bodies defense against against other diseases.

    There really is no significant evidence of that.

  • AutismDadd

    Correlation???? That’s not evidence.

  • AutismDadd

    Strawman at work

  • AutismDadd

    J boy is trying to get me banned so he’s doing this harassment ploy.

  • Ron Roy

    In other words they know everything they list as a possible reaction can and does happen. Nice try at trying to minimize the dangers of vaccines.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sure it is. Math kind of demands it. However not all correlations are equally strong and not all strong correlations are equally strong evidence.

  • Ron Roy

    I stand corrected. See I admit it when I make a mistake, Now if only you would by admitting you’re wrong in supporting vaccinations we’d all be better off. Fewer disabled kids and you would have a clear conscience. But that aside show me where Golding and Scott were wrong.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ve simply decided that the least people need to do when faced with harassers like yourself is call them out. Given Disqus’s approach to handling their communities I doubt this will result in action against your account.

    Again, stop harassing people.

  • Ron Roy

    Their names were prominently displayed and the article in quotation marks. What more do you want?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Please stop your harassment.

  • How about the PMID number?

  • Legal term.

    Colloquially, it’d be better expressed as “labelling omission.”

  • Diet dee

    The flu vaccine is 60 effective IF it’s match to the strain.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    Yes, six snide comments to me this morning right off the bat.

  • shay simmons

    Show us where Golding and Scott said ” “The body is essentially constipated with viruses that it cannot expel!”

  • shay simmons

    You copy/pasted the first paragraph of an article by Stephen Marini that quoted one sentence from the Golding & Scott study. You left off the article title and the name of the website.

    Someone who didn’t realize what a dubious source of information you are might have read your post and drawn the conclusion that Golding & Scott were the authors of your cite.

  • shay simmons

    There’s your reading comprehension problem again, Ron.

  • Verboten

    You sure do spend a lot of time trying to fight for vaccinations. Are you being paid?

  • AutismDadd

    Maybe Disqus recognizes that you are over sensitive and like most pro-vacs you hate that I put you on the spot and label you such a fraud and highlight your errors. So since you have this phobia about being right 100% of the time, you dislike being shown you aren’t. That is what Disqus is about.

  • AutismDadd

    Too inconsistent to be accepted as evidence. Did you hear this one ” correlation doesn’t equal causation (unless its from pro-vaccinaters)”

  • AutismDadd

    Should Ron UPS you a box of tissue? What color do you like?

  • What evidence do you base that question on?

  • Verboten

    So, you are being paid. How much?

  • Verboten, you are the one making the claim. It is up to you to provide evidence so….got any?

  • Verboten

    Yea, the fact that you are pretending that 50+% of your comments are not going toward pro-vax.

  • Verboten

    Are you being paid to post?

  • Please quote-and-link to where I pretended this?

  • Verboten

    No need to quote, every response you make without mentioning the elephant in the room is the proof.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Disqus is pretty detached from the abuses of people here. So you’re pretty well into fantasy-land with all this imagined analysis that they have about me or anyone.

  • 655321

    He needs his safe space. He’s a tender guy.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Too inconsistent to be accepted as evidence.

    It simply is evidence. That is it shifts likelihood of a hypothesis. Your opinion here is meaningless.

    correlation doesn’t equal causation

    If by “equal” we mean “necessitates” then I’m not saying that correlation necessitates causation. However correlation is necessarily evidence of causation. How much depends on the nature of the correlation. If you need me to provide the remedial math to help you figure this out. Let me know.

  • 655321

    What a baby. If being called on your BS makes you uncomfortable, maybe you should stay away from internet forums.

  • What elephant is that?

  • Verboten

    I’m guessing you don’t get accused of being intelligent very often…

  • Jonathan Graham

    Victim blaming is a common element of abuse and harassment.

  • 655321

    Says the guy pushing products that are neurologically destroying a generation of children. Sorry, no violin for you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m not interested in pushing any product. I’m simply correcting the ridiculous views of people here.

  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    I’m not falling in your trap. No.

  • Verboten

    What trap? You are a pro-vax missionary. There are no natural pro-vax missionaries. Pro-vaxxers are either uninformed, forced to take a stance because of public position, or the paid shills of multinational corporations. This is no trap, this is an unveiling.

  • 655321

    “Correcting”…like the caretaker “correcting” his family in The Shining? Sounds about as mentally stable.

  • 655321
  • Sonja Henie-Spinning Jenny!

    You tried to trap Nom Dum Disqus with the same question. Not falling for it. The person far more likely to be a sockie is you, having joined Oct. 14, 2016, already 1491 comments, 71 comments/day! I’ve been a member since Nov. 1, 2012.

  • Kevin

    Hi there,Would you not agree that 60% is better than nothing?

  • Diet dee

    If the flu virus was only disease around yes. But since the flu vaccine can make you more susceptible to other viruses no.

  • Kevin

    Do you believe that the flu vaccine can make one more susceptible to other viruses? and if so can you point me to where I can read about this.thank you.

  • AutismDadd

    So then when parents witness their child regress after a series of vaccines, that’s correlation and that necessitates calling it all a coincidence. How am I doing?

  • AutismDadd

    Abs of veal

  • AutismDadd

    Oh so you can stop pretending I’m a harasser then.

  • AutismDadd

    Then stop the strawman crapola

  • AutismDadd

    woot woot. Just making sure you’re awake.

  • AutismDadd

    They’d pay her not to…she’s brutal

  • AutismDadd

    That’s just cruel….nice job!

  • AutismDadd

    Not consistently. Its been 3%, 16% etc. Basically a vial of nothing. Will that be cash or credit card?

  • AutismDadd

    Its bunk. That 60 % is not what each and every recipient gets. Its a bogus number made up to sound good. One year they say some may get some protection. That’s the year it was 3%. Imagine, 3% was the best case, then some may get some protection.

  • AutismDadd

    The year the H1N1 was prominent EXPERTS told the public NOT to get the H1N1 and the regular flu vax.

  • AutismDadd

    Where does straw fit into the equation?

  • Kevin

    Hi can you provide a link for me so I can read about it.thanks.

  • AutismDadd

    Do a search. It was reported on TV and newspapers in North America.

  • Kevin

    Hi AutismDadd I copied this from CDC.CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well the flu vaccine protects against flu illness. While vaccine effectiveness can vary,
    recent studies show vaccine reduces the risk of flu illness by about
    50% to 60% among the overall population during seasons when most
    circulating flu viruses are like the vaccine viruses.

  • AutismDadd

    Its bunk. CDC lies. It uses numbers to trick consumers. Ask yourself HOW they could know the percentage. There is no possible way. We are supposed to read 60%, say COLL and move on.

  • Kevin

    Fair question that I cannot argue against,”how could they know the percentage” I don’t know.

  • AutismDadd

    Think about it and read up to see if you can determine how they could determine it.

  • Kevin

    Hi AutismDadd more info from CDC.There were sufficient data from the U.S. Flu VE Network to also calculate more specific VE estimates:

    51 percent VE against the H1N1 viruses responsible for most flu illness this season
    76 percent VE against all influenza B viruses
    79 percent VE against the B/Yamagata lineage of B viruses

  • Mike Stevens

    He must be a paid shill then!

  • Mike Stevens

    I doubt he can do that. He will deflect.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So when we say something is “evidence” it’s only meaningful if we know the hypothesis we are considering it evidence of. Calling something “co-incidence” is a hypothesis just as much as the idea that the vaccine significantly contributed to whatever outcome you are observing.

    However the evidence supports the idea that these observations of parents are co-incidences far, far more than they are causative. So that’s what demands we consider these events co-incidental.

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and because I don’t you can conclude that I’m not playing to Disqus mods here. I’m telling you to stop harassing people because the majority of your posts are harassment.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s not a strawman and thanks for implicitly admitting you’re harassing people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s not a strawman. Please quit your harassment.

  • Verboten

    Why are you lying to people about the dangers of vaccines?

  • Verboten

    I do what I can when I can. Stay strong out there

  • Jeffersonian

    Oh, and More admission that the Thimerasol “Compound” is 50% MERCURY

    FDA’s Words (NOT MINE): “Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% MERCURY by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see “Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials” and “Thimerosal Toxicity”, below).”

    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

  • Jeffersonian

    FDA’s Words (NOT MINE): “Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% MERCURY by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see “Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials” and “Thimerosal Toxicity”, below).”

    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

  • What is 100-50?

    But….So? Water is mostly oxygen by weight… that doesn’t make it a smart idea to breathe it.

    Table salt is 100% chlorine and sodium by weight and yet it is not a poison that explodes upon contact with water.

  • Jeffersonian

    The Top 10 Myths (lies) that our criminal FDA/CDC refuse to tell us because if they did, then nobody would get vaccines:

    http://traceamounts.com/ten-lies-told-about-mercury-in-vaccines/

  • Jeffersonian

    So quoting the same controlled and non-independant sources are your proof? Why don’t you look at THIS study that shows how they manipulated their latest “Proof” that Vaccines are not causing autism:

    http://www.safeminds.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Fewer-Antigens-Argument-SafeMinds-Investigative-Research-Report-Final.pdf

  • Jeffersonian

    Really? First off go Look AND ACTUALLY READ the “Study” you posted as a source:
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199705293362203

    Their “Study” was based on giving Preemies Aluminum ORALLY! Vaccines with Aluminum or INJECTED into the blood stream! Big Difference! Metals that go thru the digestive system can be POOPED out, leaving very little or no trace of the metal in the blood! Contrary to Aluminum/Mercury that is injected into the bloodstream, where it passes the blood/brain barrier, and leaving us unable to purge the metals from our blood/organs!

    When you can find Studies that show legitimate “results”, that are not rigged, and ACTUALLY RELEVANT to the vaccine controversy, then stop posting BS!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Uh…that’s a paper critiquing using the metric of antigen counts. It’s not a very good or complete paper. For example it criticizes the difference between DTaP and DTwP counting methods but doesn’t state what the true values are. So as far as they know there is no significant difference between the values. There’s a secondary argument which is simply evidence against a linear relationship between CRP and antigen count. However it doesn’t cite where this argument is made by vaccine proponents nor is it very complete.

  • Jeffersonian

    Then your 2nd Source was just as stupid and unfounded! Go look up the MSDS for Beta-propiolactone here:
    http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/MSDS/MSDS/DisplayMSDSPage.do?country=US&language=en&productNumber=P5773&brand=SIGMA&PageToGoToURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sigmaaldrich.com%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fsigma%2Fp5773%3Flang%3Den

    Well Lookey Here Folks! What does the MSDS from 2016 tells us? It uses the word CARCINOGEN! It says it’s cancer causing right there Shelly! Which is right? Your 1950’s study or the chemical manufacturer’s own words from 2016?

    I don’t have enough time to keep WASTING on setting the record Straight on your so-called facts, that obviously are just Big Pharma Shill write-ups that Big Pharma pays idiots to go post on various website comment sections in order to keep people confused on the subject of vaccine safety!

    I just outed the First TWO sources, and anyone else can do the rest of his pitiful “sources” that are not only Big Pharma lies, but not even relevant to their toxic jabs!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your 1950’s study or the chemical manufacturer’s own words from 2016?

    Actually the document is from 2004 it’s referencing work from 1950 & 1968 because…

    Human epidemiological, case-study, and in vivo experimental reports have not been found, however, except for reports of a series of Henry Ford Hospital volunteer experiments in the 1950s using beta-propiolactone’s as an anti-hepatitis blood plasma disinfectant and the testing in 1968 of beta-propiolactone as a disinfectant in reaginic sera administered for allergy studies. The Henry Ford studies reported that human acute and chronic risks from intravenous administration are negligible; the reaginic sera study found minor irritations, displayed vesicles, discoloration, and papules in the areas of human skin inoculation.

    So these, at least as of 2004 are the only human trials we have. The words from the MSDS are from animal studies which are fine as a guideline but they are generally inferior to human trials. Which is why we don’t just test drugs on animals before we market them.

    I just outed the First TWO sources,

    You haven’t even addressed the first source which shows that IV aluminum in doses higher than that in vaccines, are safe in populations more vulnerable to cognitive issues. Your analysis of the second source is in error.

  • What lie has been told?

  • “Adverse events without regard to causality.”

  • Verboten

    *psst* the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies defenses and to activate them…

    Medicine isn’t magic, it is about health, and homeopathic medicine is about using natural products to accomplish the same things.

    …and you might say modern medicine takes a long time to develop vaccines…try 4 billion years of development from nature.

  • Jonathan Graham

    the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies defenses and to activate them

    Not really. The point of modern evidence based medicine is to find treatments that work irrespective of ideology.

    and homeopathic medicine is about using natural products to accomplish the same things.

    No homeopathy is about an ideological principle which is nonsense in modalities which are not supported by strong statistical evidence or plausibility.

  • Verboten

    LMAO You don’t even know how medicine works. What a laugh and a half. Go away.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m just pointing out that modern evidence based medicine doesn’t care what the modality is as long as it works. Whereas homeopathy is a modality that doesn’t work.

  • Kevin

    I can live in hope.

  • AutismDadd

    Sorry. I should understand that you are embarrassed from the thrashing I’ve given you. So pick on weaker foes. There may be elderly and children you can dominate.

  • AutismDadd

    Evidence according to vaccine proponents….check

  • AutismDadd

    CDC uses reports like these to lie.

  • AutismDadd

    Avoid Mike and Sonja…= shills

  • Verboten

    There exists no other modality… *facepalm*

  • Jonathan Graham

    According to anyone who accepts the mathematics of probability.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, the fact that Disqus doesn’t really take harassment very seriously is why you should understand this isn’t a ploy. You are a harasser.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sure, not everything has to mimic the human body.

  • Verboten

    Everything must either mimic the body or use the body for it to work. Even chemotherapy depends on the body’s ability to heal itself. You act like doctors are magicians, they aren’t.

  • Diet dee
  • Jonathan Graham

    Everything must either mimic the body or use the body for it to work

    Glad to see you understand you were wrong. Since you list two modalities.

    However Homeopathy isn’t defined to be anything that is used by the body in the broadest sense. So even if you deny that you’ve listed two modalities. It’s clear that finer categories exist which homeopathy isn’t a part of. Which of course makes my point. :-)

  • Verboten

    I said the exact same thing from the beginning.

    I know both medical doctors and homeopathic doctors. Sick of your tripe.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I said the exact same thing from the beginning.

    Nope. You advertised

    the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies defenses and to activate them

    Which is incorrect. The point of modern evidence-based medicine is to get something that works. We don’t care if it uses the “body’s defenses” or not. You then said:

    homeopathic medicine is about using natural products to accomplish the same things.

    Which is both inaccurate as not just any naturally sourced treatment is a homeopathic treatment. Homeopathic treatments are required to be exceptionally dilute and they are based philosophically on the principle of “like cures like”. One could make the argument that since homeopathy pursues something that is the least likely to make a difference. It also doesn’t have “does it work” as a high priority in it’s philosophy.

  • Verboten

    You are an idiot.

    “the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies defenses and to activate them”

    Yes, and that is what I reiterated, a fact that you cannot overturn as those are the only two logical methods that are available much less used.

  • Jonathan Graham

    a fact that you cannot overturn as those are the only two logical methods

    Hardly, unless you define the terms so broadly as to be meaningless. Some therapies don’t use any known body mechanism and some are actually designed to defeat a mechanism of the body.

  • Verboten

    You have no idea of what you are talking about, that much is clear.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So is a drug that interferes with a body mechanism “using the body” or “mimicking the body”?

  • Verboten

    interferes with a body mechanism “using the body”

    Please, just think about what you are saying….

    This is not rocket science, what I said is true only because there is nothing else that can be true. The goal of medicine is to affect the body…you cannot affect the body without mimicking its processes or manipulating its processes i.e. there is no such thing as magic. Sheesh.

  • Jonathan Graham

    interferes with a body mechanism “using the body”

    If I interfere with a thrust from an attacking sword I am generally not said to be “using the attacking sword”. So you are simply using words in a needlessly obscure way.

    you cannot affect the body without mimicking its processes or manipulating its processes

    Using normal English usage you can. Surgically removing something is neither mimicking a bodily process or manipulating one (I noticed that I’ve forced you to re-word. Which means your earlier statement was false!)

  • AutismDadd

    Quit playin

  • AutismDadd

    Buh wah ha ha

  • AutismDadd

    Hey Kevin watch Jimmy Kimmel tonight Nov 9/16 Robert De Nero will be on. Since Trump won vaccines could come up in conversation.

  • AutismDadd

    De Nero on Jimmy Kimmel tonight Nov 9/16. Remember Kimmel did a low life bit about anti-vaxxers? With Trump Prez maybe vacs will be discussed.

  • AutismDadd

    60% means nothing. They can not prove it, its just a bogus number they decided to use.

  • AutismDadd

    Wrong. Consensus was used. They decided to claim its debunked, there was no proof. Statements were always “we can’t support that” garbage.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s true, sorry. My statements are based on nothing but that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Quit harassing people.

  • AutismDadd

    Love your first statement. I concur

  • AutismDadd

    JON is an uber stooge

  • AutismDadd

    More likely you are exposing your ignorance. Stick to math, medicine isn’t your thing.

  • AutismDadd

    Bull. Homeopathy only works by using the body’s mechanism. They are like oral vaccines and use the NORMAL route of entry UNLIKE injection which hits the body as a sneak attack that leads to weakness, fainting, anaphylactic responses and seizures. Your blah blah is tripe.

  • AutismDadd

    You sound like a babbling idiot.

  • AutismDadd

    So a therapy doesn’t use a known body mechanism by blocking a body mechanism? I’d say that is using a body mechanism by altering its natural operation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry, I’m just pointing out the truth.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well you seem to have read a thread and managed to entirely misunderstand it…again.

    Homeopathy only works

    ROFL, HAHAHAH, hehehehehe, Whooof. That’s a good one. Seriously it’s so ridiculously unlikely that homeopathy is useful for anything medical it’s probably healthier to buy a lottery ticket.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Then it’s simply poor English.

  • Kevin

    OK

  • AutismDadd

    Been drinking again?

  • AutismDadd

    Nope. Just flappin your gums

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sadly (for you), no I’m not.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Projecting again?

  • Ron Roy

    Even his math leaves a lot to be desired.

  • Ron Roy

    He admitted to diet coke but……OMG diet coke and RUM!

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s kind of cute when you have to tell yourself that someone doesn’t understand something which you have no clue about just so you can feel better.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Don’t you have to show that Marini’s argument is actually IN the paper? People don’t have to refute arguments which aren’t actually postulated by anyone.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m more of a scotch man but last I checked the number of drinks I have per month is < 1.

  • I can think of a way to neither mimic nor interfere with the process of …. I dunno….you being stabbed with a sword but still prevent the end result.

    Let’s say Mike Stevens is trying to stab you with a sword. There’s totally a hypothetical way for me to have you not get stabbed with the sword without restraining Mike Stevens: Namely, stepping in between you two.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes, you could “interfere with the thrust” without “interfering with the process of thrusting”. Wearing armor would also do the same thing. The attacker completes the thrust but the thrust causes no damage.

  • Diet dee

    If they could remove mandates and penalties for non vaccination that would be great but pharma is very powerful and vaccine mandate are a states right

  • Verboten

    Ok, so if you have a surgery, you don’t take any pain meds, I assume, and the doctor does not expect your body to heal itself afterwards.

    Idiot.

  • Verboten

    Obviously. How is your IQ so low?

  • Heck, I haven’t even interfered with the thrust. Mike has still completed his sword thrust and still damaged someone which is the whole point of sword thrusts. All I’ve really done is interfered with Mike’s goal of attacking you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s just a horrible use of English then.

  • Verboten

    So, I say that all bachelors are single, you fight me on it…and after you finally concede its true, you demean me and the statement? WHAT A LOSER!! Lol.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That’s irrelevant to the use you are making. The surgery is not mimicking any bodily process. So this is yet again an example of how your phrasing is poor.

  • Verboten

    That is why I didn’t only say mimic, idiot.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, I’m saying that you poorly communicated your point. So it’s more accurate to say that YOU are communicating poorly and demeaning people for not understanding you.

    You could have simply said “Anything that attempts to heal the body has some interaction with the body.” However earlier you were attempting to show some similarities between homeopathy and modern medicine and this approach doesn’t really make any useful point.

  • Verboten

    When you are too stupid to understand plain English and apply common sense, that is your problem, moron, not everyone else’s.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again what is your point about homeopathy now that we have a much less tortured use of English. You say that all things which are attempting to heal the body have some interaction with the body…and so what does that say about homeopathy?

  • Verboten

    “Homeopathy, or homeopathic medicine, is a medical philosophy and practice based on the idea that the body has the ability to heal itself.”

  • Mike Stevens

    I’d rather not stab JG, thanks!

  • Mike Stevens

    “the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies defenses and to activate them”

    Not necessarily. For example I’d appreciate your elucidation of how this process works with the following:
    1. Coronary angioplasty
    2. AP resection for rectal carcinoma
    3. Bone marrow transplant for leukaemia
    4. Antibiotic therapy with ciprofloxacin

  • Mike Stevens

    I’d rather not stab you either!

  • Verboten

    My God, another idiot that doesn’t believe that every bachelor is single…wonderful.

    Please do demonstrate how any procedure on the body does not either have to mimic a bodily function/process or have to utilize a bodily function/process? BY DEFINITION THEY DO.

    What a group of doltish boors.

  • Don’t worry, just a hypothetical.

  • Don’t worry, no-one expects you to. Just a hypothetical.

  • Mike Stevens

    Of course.
    There are plenty of people who I wouldn’t mind trying to, and not hypothetically though. I think.

  • Mike Stevens

    You seem to have misinterpreted my comment.
    I was asking you to demonstrate how the above modern medical procedures “mimic the body’s defences to activate them”, which was your specific claim.

    So can you please do so?
    If you can’t, then we must assume you were wrong, or lying.

    Here they are again:
    1. Coronary angioplasty
    2. AP resection for rectal carcinoma
    3. Bone marrow transplant for leukaemia
    4. Antibiotic therapy with ciprofloxacin

  • Verboten

    Please, if you do not understand how widening an artery is using the body or how surgery depends on the bodies ability to heal itself, you are a real moron then.

  • Jonathan Graham

    medical philosophy and practice based on the idea that the body has the ability to heal itself.

    …but frequently requires a single modality to get this to happen. Modern evidence-based medicine however differs significantly in that the modalities do not matter.

  • Verboten

    You are acting like mankind has developed systems better than the human body…we haven’t, not even close. Furthermore, you are dumping on a system of medicine that prizes prevention over treatment, something we should all be doing.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, I’m acting like homeopathy is tied to one exceptionally stupid modality. EBM is not, medicine is free to use homeopathic treatments if they work and examine them if they are plausible. They are not.

    Furthermore, you are dumping on a system of medicine that prizes prevention over treatment

    It would have to since it’s terrible at treatment.

    something we should all be doing.

    Sure. However we still need EBM when prevention doesn’t happen or is insufficient. We don’t need homeopathy.

  • Verboten

    “No, I’m acting like homeopathy is tied to one exceptionally stupid modality.”

    I bet you could not build a proper box from scratch. You are a full-blown idiot that knows nothing about the history of medicine and its extreme problem of getting it wrong. You know nothing.

    “medicine is free to use homeopathic treatments if they work and examine them if they are plausible” Except they don’t. Why? Money most likely, genius.

    You know so little and yet you are out there telling people to disbelieve their eyes. You are a pathetic person.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I bet you could not build a proper box from scratch.

    So now box making is the standard for being able to give competent (but not professional) statistical advice?

    Except they don’t. Why?

    The most likely reason is it’s implausible. After that it generally fails to show any promise in well controlled trials. If you knew something about statistics you’d know that this means it’s far more likely to be crap than not crap.

    You know so little and yet you are out there telling people to disbelieve their eyes.

    I apparently know more than you about statistics. I’m not telling people to disbelieve their eyes as much as I’m telling people that their hypothesis based on observation is implausible.

  • JGC

    Shelly, your evidence that any of these ingredients are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination would be what, exactly?

    I mean, you do actually have some–right? Your argument does take some form other than “Oooooh–ingredients! Scary stuff!”?

  • Verboten

    “So now box making is the standard for being able to give competent (but not professional) statistical advice?” No, genius, it is the bare-minimum standard to be able to diminish the wonders of the human body.

  • JGC

    AutismDadd, your evidence that homeopathy is effective at treating any non-self-limiting illness or injury would be what, exactly?

  • JGC

    Vaccines are only mandatory if one is a member of the armed forces.

  • JGC

    Citations needed, AD, demonstrating that the mean efficacy of seasonal influenza vaccines has been between 3 and 16 per cent over the past decade or two.

  • JGC

    what’s wrong with comparing fruit to fruit, AD?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well I promise to brush up on my box making then. :-)

  • Verboten

    And what you will find is that building is hard. Diminishing the human body makes you a de facto moron.

  • JGC

    What does the VAERS disclaimer one has to acknowledge reading before proceeding to the database warn about attempting to use the VAERS dataset to demonstrate a causal association, Shelly?

    When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

    re: that list of ingredients

    Do you have any evidence–any evidence at all–demonstrating any of these are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

    Or does your argument reduce to nothing more than “Oooooh–ingredients! Scary stuff!”?

  • Diet dee

    Or if you want to go to public School,college or if you work in some health fields. Some exemptions exist in name only. For example New York has a religious exemptions that needs to be “Approved”

  • JGC

    Citations desperately needed: please provide actual evidence demonstrating that routine childhood vaccination is “neurologically destroying a generation of children”, 655321.

  • JGC

    they’re required if you want to attend public schools, or work in health care professions. If you choose not to meet the requirement alternatives to both are freely available to you: no one will force you to be vaccinated against your will.
    Surely you’re not arguing that choices should be free of consequence?

  • Jonathan Graham

    The only thing I’m diminishing is the idea that homeopathy somehow achieves something useful. The human body can be as a miraculous machine as you want – homeopathy still is stupid.

  • Diet dee

    I’m arguing that the consequence is arbitrary.

  • Mike Stevens

    No, I don’t understand how resecting the entire colon surgically, or using a plastic cannula with a balloon to artificially expand a stenosed artery is “mimicking the body’s defence”.

    Perhaps you could enlighten us?
    How about radiotherapy for bronchial carcinoma? Is that “mimicking the body’s defence” too?
    Do we all have latent “body defence” nuclear reactors in our thoracic cavities capable of generating EMR?

  • Verboten

    I said either mimicking or utilizing, genius.

  • Verboten

    Actually, you are the one that is stupid. That much is obvious and thank you for revealing that to the rest of us.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You simply have a problem differentiating between something that claims to let your body use it’s miraculous powers of self-healing and something that actually is able to let your body use it’s miraculous powers of self-healing.

  • Verboten

    You are wrong, you are unethical, and you are an idiot.

    Please, do not go to chiropractors, if your back pain medication does not work, don’t try any safe alternatives -pump up with more drugs. Also, do not take any herbal supplements nor should you eat healthy because the gods of medicine can save you from all that ails you…

  • Jonathan Graham

    Please, do not go to chiropractors

    I don’t have chronic low back pain and since chiropractic shows evidence to be good for little else I wouldn’t bother. If I did have chronic low back pain I’d probably try exercise first, or perhaps an RMT. Both of these have as good or better evidence than chiropractic.

    Also, do not take any herbal supplements

    The vast majority of which have no evidence supporting them – why would anyone bother?

    nor should you eat healthy

    There is evidence correlating specific poor diets with negative medical outcomes. So I’ll continue eating in a way supported by the evidence. Thanks. :-)

  • Verboten

    What a moron.

  • JGC

    Make that argument then: demonstrate that allowing unvaccinated children to attend public school does not place the other children attending at increased risk of infectious disease.

  • Mike Stevens

    Can’t you read, or even remember what you said? Sheesh!
    God spare us from neuropenic idiots…

    No, you didn’t, you said, and I quote directly:
    “the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies [sic] defenses and to activate them”

    Even if you had modified this later to say “utilise”, you are still wrong.
    Again, tell us what “body defence” does radiotherapy mimic?

  • Verboten

    Ok, moron, when you expand arteries, the body never does that, right?

    When you surgically remove something, the body never does that, right?

    And, of course, you are never “using the body” nor mimicking it nor activating it…even though there is no way around doing those things otherwise you are not talking about human health, dolt.

    What a moron.

  • Mike Stevens

    Sigh….
    Arteries can constrict and dilate to some extent naturally, but not one stenosed by atheromatous plaques. They need forcible balloon expansion, or stenting with an expanding wire mesh.
    How does the body “sugically remove” it’s own bowel?

  • Verboten

    You are trying to twist reality to match your narrative. Sad.

    If there is a problem in the bowels, what does the body do? Compensate until it can repair.

    Also, I’d like to see a surgery that does not depend on the bodies ability to heal itself.

  • Verboten

    Tell me, what surgery or procedure (to include radioactive methods) does not depend on the bodies ability to heal itself?

    Really, let me just stop there. I am letting an idiot hijack my statements. I basically stated that medicine is not magic and that all medicines must either use the body or mimic the body. Which is basically saying that all bachelors are single. You can keep trying to beat this dead horse, but I don’t care. You are clearly an idiot like your friend Graham is.

  • JGC

    The Tripedia insert does not list autism as a vaccine caused side effect: it instead lists it among a number of adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccination while noting a causal association has not been demonstrated.
    From the insert:

    Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.

    .

  • shay simmons

    “Namely, stepping in between you two.”

    Please don’t.

  • Yeah, don’t worry, only a hypothetical.

  • Ron Roy

    Show the evidence that your consumption of over 2 liters of diet coke a chips everyday is healthy. Citations please.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ron if you get to claim that your current state of alleged good health is due to your diet then so can I.

  • Ron Roy

    This is why no one should pay any attention to what Johnny says. He believes drinking more than 2 liters of diet coke per day, not to mention all the chips that go with it, is what keeps him healthy!

  • Jonathan Graham

    He believes drinking more than 2 liters of diet coke per day, not to mention all the chips that go with it, is what keeps him healthy!

    More correctly I believe that people can drink 2L of diet cola a day and still be healthy. The point being is that your diet rules are largely fiction.

  • Ron Roy

    Johnny you’re overweight, have high blood pressure, take insulin for your diabetes and you call yourself healthy?

  • Jeffersonian

    ALL of those items (outside of Autism) have been listed on other manufacturer’s inserts for a long time as Adverse Effects, but it’s just a total coincidence that a kid reversed into autism after 1 shot and a total incidence that they went into grand mal seizures that are listed on damn near ALL inserts and many doctors claim is just a mild side effect. The Whooping Cough vaccine has been one of the major autism causing vaccines that hundreds of moms blamed on their child regressing into Autism within hours after just getting that ONE vaccine.

    If you want to tell ALL of the mothers that have gave their stories DAILY on the Vaxx Bus Tour that is was just a total coincidence that their kid died of SIDS, stopped walking, stopped talking, succumbed to Diabetes Type 1, broke out into severe eczema-type rash all over their body, cannot go to school because since their child received a jab they now struggle with half a dozen seizures, has severe allergy reactions to eggs, nuts (both products in vaccines).

    Go listen to them! Go SEE THE PHOTOS OF THEIR CHILD BEFORE AND AFTER THE VACCINE that injured them! Those dozens of daily interviews will wake you up to the Truth! They have now over 5,000 signatures on the VAX Bus of all of the vaccine injured kids that you believe don’t exist, and most of their stories are documented in Periscope interviews @AutismMedia Twitter https://twitter.com/AutismMedia

    Most of us that have vaccine injured kids cannot even get the doctors to put an Autism label on our kids because they are now trying to stop the growth of Autism Rates in the US by forcing the doctors to not give any Autism Diagnosis! I know that the rate of Autism is not 1 in 68, or even 1 in 40, it’s much closer to 1 in 15 now. You can’t walk in a store or park and not find an autistic child in the first 5 minutes! Many moms are still in denial stage too, but we have a serious problem! This is same govt that LIED about Benghazi being a Protest about some stupid video that the US State Dept Contractor modified hours before the attack and uploaded it to YT around the same time that the “protest” began! This is the same Big Pharma that lied about their (fill in the blank drug), time and time again!

    Our government just admitted to doing HIV testing on foster kids! This was just a couple years ago!

    Big Pharma has ADMITTED that these dangerous vaccines don’t work if the mom is breastfeeding! What does that say? I can tell you what it says! That MOMS BREAST MILK PROTECTS OUR YOUNGEST MOST PRECIOUS CITIZENS FROM GETTING (FILL IN THE BLANK) VIRUS THAT WOULD AT BEST GIVE THEM A FEVER AND RASH FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AND LIFELONG IMMUNITY THAT REALLY WORKS!

    If you believe these vaccines are safe, then please go to CVS and get ALL of the vaccines that the CDC mandate our doctors to give to babies and at the same time/intervals, post an article with videos of you getting all 80 jabs, and let us know how healthy you are! THEN, I might re-consider all of the studies that I read and all of the bogus pro-vax studies that the CDC puts out! I can’t wait to see your first video of you getting the Flu and HepB vaccine today, and then in a couple months the next round, and then even more rounds in 6 months!

  • Jonathan Graham

    My BMI is 24.8 which is the high side of normal. I have a 35″ waist. I’ve already posted my resting BP which was better than yours. I don’t have diabetes. So yeah I’m healthy.

  • *Probably. After all, there are numbers between 0 and 100.

  • Mike Stevens

    Sigh… I seem to have touched a raw nerve by highlighting your ignorance on the topic.

    You have now modified your original claim.
    That claim (which you yourself “reiterated”), was this:
    “the whole point of modern medicine is to mimic the bodies [sic] defenses and to activate them”
    You now are trying to suggest you just meant that the body heals as part of the process of medical interventions like surgery. I am glad you have backtracked, since the original claim was untenable.

    If you notice, I did not originally dismiss your original claim, in fact i started my comment by replying “Not necessarily” to you. You see, sometimes the body does do that, but I was just pointing out that there are instances when that is not how treatments work, so one should not be as dogmatic as you were.

    Even now, your new claim (namely that medicine uses the body’s ability to heal itself) is not always correct. More often than not, it is correct, for instance with a fractured arm, medical treatment consists of stabilising the fracture and immobilising the limb, so the bones can “heal”. Fair enough. But this is not always the process by which medicine works.

    Take something like hyothyroidism, for example. The illness is the result of the body’s failure to produce a metabolic hormone, thyroxine. So medical treatment consists of rplacing that lost hormone. This is not making the body “heal”, it is just preventing the body from incurring damage from a hormone deficiency. There are many other examples.

    If you were truly approaching debates here with an open mind and a willingness to gain information, your response to my corrections would be one of gratitude, not scorn, abuse and invective. But I never really expected anything less from you, knowing your usual MO.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Agreed, I was implying “to some degree” there.

  • Mike Stevens

    “You are trying to twist reality to match your narrative. Sad.
    If there is a problem in the bowels, what does the body do? Compensate until it can repair.”

    Who’s twisting reality now?
    Can you provide specific examples of where the body eliminates colonic cancer by “compensating until it can repair”? If this is how you think the body overcomes cancer, then there should be millions of examples to draw from. How about you cite a dozen or so?

  • Verboten

    No, I have no time for your nonsense. You buy tripe from anything wearing a labcoat. You are a patsy that would write an essay to try to defend his stance against bachelor’s being single. Wonderful.

  • Verboten

    You don’t have a clue.

  • Yes, Jon, but for some reason, assuming that people smarter than 200-odd years of global scientific and medical consensus can work that out for themselves…ends rather badly.

  • Mike Stevens

    “You don’t have a clue.”
    Spoken like a true Dunning Krugerite.

  • Mike Stevens

    Yes, my comments are wonderful, aren’t they?

  • Verboten

    Label me whatever you want to, you are believing in nonsense for no particular reason, I actually work very hard to back up what I believe. You are a sheep, very baa-aad.

  • Verboten

    No, they are full of the same regurgitated nonsense I hear all day from everyone on “your side”. It’s like fighting a zombie army where every combatant looks exactly the same.

  • Mike Stevens

    You forget, you are the one who made an unsupportable claim, and despite requests for the evidence for claiming it, have been repeatedly unable to provide it.

  • Verboten

    And, what unsupportable claim is that, idiot?

  • kfunk937

    Man, Mike. I haven’t checked, but did you notice that there was an election going on here?

    Talk about unsupportable claims.

    (Okay, I’ll prolly get over this someday. Not any time soon, though).

  • Mike Stevens

    That all medicine works by “mimicking the bodies [sic] defenses”, of course.
    Please stop calling me an idiot.
    Where did you get your medical degree, btw?

  • Verboten

    What is infuriating about all of this, is no matter what I say to you, you will still be an idiot. What is also so enjoyable about this is that no matter what you say, you will still be an idiot.

    Think about it, moron, imagine a robot. If you are going to fix a broken robot, what exactly are you going to need to do and how are you going to do it? After your tiny brain explodes just remember that you are to leave Verboten alone.

  • Mike Stevens

    There is a delicious irony in my being called an “idiot” and a “moron” by someone who thinks the human body can cure its own cancer by “compensating until it can repair”.

    Believe me, the enjoyment reading this thread is all on my part…

  • Verboten

    Clearly you neither understand nor appreciate the human body. Typical of the lower IQ.

  • Verboten
  • Kevin

    Thank you for your link, Very interesting reading,I must try and find more info on this.thanks.

  • Kevin

    Hi Diet dee I got this info from the CDC website.There is one study (published in 2012)
    that suggested that influenza vaccination might make people more
    susceptible to other respiratory infections. After that study was
    published, many experts looked into this issue further, including
    conducting additional studies to see if the findings could be
    replicated. No other studies have found this effect. It’s not clear why
    this finding was detected in this one study, but the preponderance of
    evidence suggests that this is not a common or regular occurrence and
    that influenza vaccination does not, in fact, make people more
    susceptible to other respiratory infections.

  • Kevin

    Hi Mike How would the boy remove Gallstones on it’s own or Appendix? I am not a medical person and even I know that there are times that doctors have to intervene to save lives because the body could not do it by itself.

  • Kevin

    Not if there is a big cancer polyp sitting there.

  • Kevin

    Mike I to am reading and I cannot believe it.a cancerous bowel will fix itself? REALLY?

  • Verboten

    Actually, there have been reports that the body does heal itself from cancer and we utilize those methods, genius. Not saying that there is never a case to simply cut out the cancer, but the cancer is there in the first place because the person was ignoring the signs for a very long time.

    http://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/2015/06/how-the-bodys-immune-system-can-fight-cancer/

  • Verboten

    Yea, because you are an uninformed idiot.

  • Kevin

    Hi firstly I would appreciate it if you would not call me “genius” as I have never made such a claim,secondly I was talking about BOWEL cancer,doctors tell us that there are NO early warning signs,that is why we should have regular checkups,nice to see that you AGREE that there are times that the body can not heal itself without medical intervention,which is my whole point.

  • Kevin

    Calling people names does NOT raise your credibiliy

  • Verboten

    Why does a person have these issues in the first place? Furthermore, gallstones can be dissolved and in the case of an appendix bursting, your body immediately begins to fight it and you can survive it.

    You sure do know a lot, don’t ya, son?

    “What? I thought people died when their appendix burst.

    No, I was told. Not always.

    The body, they explained, has a way of “walling off” the perforated appendix so that the infection doesn’t spread.”

    http://commonhealth.legacy.wbur.org/2012/07/burst-appendix-appendectomy

  • Verboten

    Calling people what they are does in fact raise my credibility.

  • Verboten

    No early warning signs? According to who? You people are out of your minds.

    You clearly have no concept of history!! READ, MAN, READ!!!

    And, as far as the body being unable to heal itself without medical intervention is a misnomer. The body has its limits, but given the proper care, the body can and will do incredible things.

    It is so common among the uneducated to diminish the capabilities of nature and to praise the capabilities of science…while the educated do exactly the opposite.

  • Kevin

    “No early warning signs? According to who?” Dr Malouf who happens to be my Colon specialist

  • Verboten

    Just because we have not yet agreed upon what is an early sign does not mean they do not exist. There is no such thing as magic, everything happens for a reason, a very specific and measurable reason.

  • Kevin

    Only in Fantasyland

  • Verboten

    No, in reality you are an idiot. You are probably one in fantasy land as well though.

    Can’t lose points for being right, chap.

  • Kevin

    You are entitled to your opinion.

  • Verboten

    It isn’t an opinion. I try to be clear when I am giving an opinion, this was not one of those times.

  • Kevin

    You will excuse me as I have nothing further to say to you except that I would take Dr Maloufs advice regarding my bowels and not from anyone else.

  • Verboten

    I’m not advising you not to listen to your doctor, I’m sure he is very up to date with what we know, and I’m sure he would agree with my statement that earlier warning signs exist, that nothing is random.

    You are acting like modern medicine has all of the answers. I am not anti-modern medicine but I am also not a mindless idiot that believes anyone in a labcoat. There are plenty of natural methods to curing and preventing many ailments. Alas, we are not really meant to live the way we do, and yet we complain when our bodies break down…eating fast food, not exercising, staring at lightbulbs called screens all day, coming into contact with a large variety of environmental toxins daily…

  • shay simmons

    Need a fire extinguisher for your trousers, Ron?

  • Kevin

    On this rare occasion I will break my promise not to talk to you BUT whilst I agree on a lot of your points and you have a lot of valid points,Dr Malouf TOLD me that there is NO early signs of bowel cancer,yes there is signs for example,blood in stool BUT NO early signs.that’s me done.have a nice day.

  • Verboten

    Well, I think it is quite possible that a person can “tell” that there is something beginning to be wrong with them. I think as we become more advanced, we will become more aware of the various signs being given off by our bodies. I would like to see a unification of modern medicine and homeopathic medicine…something that is going to happen, indeed, is happening. Only problem is mankind will destroy itself before we make it too far…pity.

  • Diet dee

    https://youtu.be/e8RDyBdAZTs start at 7:00
    Here is something more to consider the non specific effects of vaccines it’s long but interesting. The flu vaccine isn’t the only vaccine that can play havoc with the immune system.

  • Kevin

    I went to your link but the video is very long,my broadband allocation is very small and slow perhaps you can supply a link that is in text that supports your claim thank you.

  • So…it’s more “despite the > two litres of cola, you’re healthy.”

    Again, Ron, correlation =/= causation.

  • AutismDadd

    Why don’t you tell us

  • AutismDadd

    What’s wrong can’t you research?

  • AutismDadd

    Where did I say that?

  • AutismDadd

    And a huge block of cheese

  • AutismDadd

    You do know what drinking means right?

  • AutismDadd

    Lame comeback . Each person’s take on information will be different. Not wrong, different.

  • AutismDadd

    burp

  • Ron Roy

    WTF do you mean by that? You ok? Forget to take your meds did you.

  • shay simmons

    Whoosh.

  • Ron Roy

    Then we’d never hear from her.

  • Ron Roy

    Flushed your meds heh?

  • “In the German case-control study and US open-label safety study in which 14,971 infants received Tripedia vaccine, 13 deaths in
    Tripedia vaccine recipients were reported. Causes of deaths included seven SIDS, and one of each of the following: enteritis,
    Leigh Syndrome, adrenogenital syndrome, cardiac arrest, motor vehicle accident, and accidental drowning. All of these events
    occurred more than two weeks post immunization.2 The rate of SIDS observed in the German case-control study was 0.4/1,000
    vaccinated infants. The rate of SIDS observed in the US open-label safety study was 0.8/1,000 vaccinated infants and the reported
    rate of SIDS in the US from 1985-1991 was 1.5/1,000 live births”

    Huh, that’s odd.

  • You do understand that nothing says that consequences have to be natural, right? There is such a thing as a logical consequence.

  • AutismDadd

    Party Time!!!

  • shay simmons

    You are so delightfully predictable, Ron — if you didn’t exist, we’d have to invent you.

  • AutismDadd

    Time to change that.

  • AutismDadd

    Quit harassing me Mike

  • AutismDadd

    S.S. or Gestapo?

  • No: Mercury is not also known as thimersoal.

    Mercury: Hg

    Thimersoal: C9H9HgNaO2S

  • 655321

    Says the guy who deflected after having to admit the MMR caused a 250% increase in autism.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes, but that said unless you’re phenylketonuric or nutrient deprived due to substitution. Diet beverages are kind of a net neutral wrt health.

  • Depends to a certain degree on what else you’d be drinking otherwise, I would guess?

  • Jonathan Graham

    That’s what I mean by substitution. Lately I’ve tried the rather annoyingly named “water enhancers” some of them are quite good and you can adjust the flavoring to taste. If I could find one that also puts caffeine in I might switch entirely.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Apparently you don’t know when you’re projecting.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually some of them have to be wrong. Like people who say: “Homeopathy works”. It doesn’t. It’s hilarious that you’re defending it.

  • I was more thinking that if you’d usually drink say, water, then replacing one of your glasses of water with diet cokes is probably at least slightly detrimental…but if you’d normally be drinking some godawful calorie-laden milkshake that tends to get names like “The Heart Attack Milkshake”….the diet coke is probably slightly better for you.

  • Diet dee

    Basically researchers discovered that vaccinated african children were more likey to die or get sick from other diseases. you can watch the video a pause when she cites the video and look up the study

  • Jonathan Graham

    Interesting. I’d wager that Diet Coke is probably pretty close to water nutritionally. I mean there’s almost nothing in it. Caffeine IIRC has some potential benefits (outside the obvious) but some slight detriments (unless you have the gene to process it quickly – like I do). So I think “slightly detrimental” is reasonable. What I would be more concerned about is if one was substituting Coke for milk. Which might lead to a deficiency of calcium. Interesting fact – Coke used to produce a vitamin enriched product called Diet Coke Plus. Oddly it only Supplemented C and some B vitamins rather than something like calcium.

  • AutismDadd

    Who said I am? I’m discussing it and fending off harassers.

  • AutismDadd

    Because I’m not. Simple equation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well you did seem to say it works…

  • AutismDadd

    What I said was the body uses it as it uses anything swallowed to a large degree. Since we have an immune system in the gut, its possible some reaction takes place.

  • Jonathan Graham

    its possible some reaction takes place.

    ROFL. Oh, keep these coming. I love it. Sure, the same reaction you would have drinking the same amount of water.

  • You do know that after =/= because, right?

  • “We randomized 115 children to trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) or placebo. Over the following 9 months, TIV recipients had an increased risk of virologically-confirmed non-influenza infections (relative risk: 4.40; 95% confidence interval: 1.31-14.8). Being protected against influenza, TIV recipients may lack temporary non-specific immunity that protected against other respiratory viruses.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404712/figure/CIS307F1/

  • Youtube is not a valid peer reviewed source for anything. Care to try again?

    Please cite for “Playing havoc with the immune system.” and be sure to note with cites how it compares to the flu itself.

  • What does the very first page of VAERs say?

  • Of course it’s the same old story. The truth usually is.

  • That would actually be quite easy and wouldn’t require an essay.

    1)We could point out that we happen to be talking about those two people over there who both have Bachelors. They are Bachelors irrespective of their marital status.

    2)We could say that since the word bachelor refers to someone who is not married and has never been married then ‘isn’t married’ is a necessary condition for bachelorhood but not sufficient. So we can point to those two guys over there who are divorced but currently single as not-bachelors.

  • Amusingly, the pop-up children’s book explanation of cancer is that it’s a failure of the self-repairing system.

  • FallsAngel

    Here’s what else they found:
    “The increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infection among TIV
    recipients could be an artefactual finding; for example, measurement
    bias could have resulted if participants were more likely to report
    their first ARI episode but less likely to report subsequent episodes,
    whereas there was no real difference in rhinovirus or other noninfluenza
    respiratory virus infections after the winter influenza season. The
    increased risk could also indicate a real effect. . . .Our results are limited by the small sample size and the small number of confirmed infections. . . . The phenomenon of virus interference has been well known in virology for >60 years. . . . Additional work is required to more fully characterize temporary
    nonspecific immunity overall and in specific groups, such as children.”

    So, in the past 4 years since this study (and this is being addressed to Diet dee) have any more studies been done that told us something new?

  • Verboten

    Another idiot fighting to deny that all bachelors are single. Beautiful. I couldn’t be this dumb if I tried.

  • Verboten

    Like the truth about the government infecting people with syphillis? With AIDS? Lying about the dangers of radioactivity? About the dangers of lead in the water? In the paint? About cigarettes?

    You live in your own fairy tale land, don’t you?

  • Dear, you claimed that all bachelors are single. It’s not my fault if you’re unaware of the other meaning of Bachelor – i.e. one who holds a bachelor’s *degree* – they’re not restricted based on marital status.

  • Have anon found evidence of my shillhood yet? You can answer the questions Jonathan and Mike and I asked you first.

  • Verboten

    Someone who holds a bachelors degree is not a bachelor, dumbass.

  • “Bachelor

    Noun
    1.
    a man who is not and has never been married.
    “one of the country’s most eligible bachelors”
    2.
    a person who holds a first degree from a university or other academic institution””

    Google Define.

  • AutismDadd

    So you are saying there is zero reaction when swallowing both? How can that be unless you are wrong?

  • Verboten

    Guess you got me there.

    It also means “a young knight who follows the banner of another”.

    I’ve never heard anyone be called bachelor for having a degree and there are no more knights. Thanks for fighting a pointless battle.

  • Verboten

    It doesn’t work like that. You end up on a list. Any information related to you will be flagged and investigated.

  • “I’ve never heard anyone be called bachelor for having a degree.” I’m sorry, Verboten, but your appeal to personal ignorance won’t fly. Just because you have never heard of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Rather like the UK – it will still exist regardless of whether you, Verboten, have heard of it or not.

    “There are no more knights.” Bzzt! Wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_honorary_British_knights_and_dames

  • You’ve already made the claim, Verboten, so I naturally assumed that you’d done this before you made the claim.

    Have you found evidence of my shillhood yet?

  • “Guess you got me there.” Yep, I did and your apppeal to personal ignorance won’t change that.

  • Verboten

    So, let me get this straight, you took time out of your day to make this comment? *pats you on the head* Maybe you really aren’t a shill, you are just lonely and pathetic :D

  • Verboten

    Yep, the moron keeps patting itself on the back for being able to slip in an unknown usage of a word. Good job. Hope you get promoted to floor-sweep soon!

  • Even Wikipedia would have enlightened you:

    “A bachelor is a man who is socially regarded as able to marry, but has not yet.

    It is also the title of anyone of any gender or marital status who holds a bachelor’s degree.”

  • Verboten

    I’m happy you finally slipped in the tiniest of victories after days of losing. Good for you.

  • Managed to get that proof of shillhood yet?

  • Verboten

    If you aren’t a shill, you shouldn’t be worried about it. The fellas over at Anon are pretty good at what they do. You are no longer my problem.

  • Kevin

    Exactly,I believe cancer is the result of regenerating cells that fail.in other words as you say,the self repairing system has failed.

  • Diet dee
  • Kevin

    Hi I pasted this from your link and as you can see she says we should continue with the current regime. “I think it’s reasonable that currently the recommendation is to
    continue, for instance, especially for people who are at high risk,
    immediate risk of hospitalization or death … For these people, there is a
    clear and present and real threat that they need to deal with and
    vaccine is the best way,” Skowronski said.

  • FallsAngel

    See this: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/flu-vaccine-study-higher-respiratory-infections/
    “Flu vaccine study does not show it causes 5.5X more respiratory infections”
    It discusses your great find.

  • Diet dee

    yes the study is small but it confirms what we often see during the Flu season. People getting sicker with the flu shot. So maybe the flu shot works IF you happen to match the strain but the flu bug is not the only thing out there. But with modern medicine and other things there are no free lunches. Get enough vaccines and you may suffer consequences. Personally Ill take my chance with the infection. Drug manufactures usually don’t publish tier failures so in a way most information is cherry picked to sell a drug or intervention.

  • JGC

    You’re suggesting there’s an equivalence between the serving members of the US Armed Forces and World War II’s SS and Gestapo, AD? Seriously?

  • JGC

    Actually, it isn’t an odd finding: there have been a number of studies suggesting that routine vaccination is protective against SIDs.

  • AutismDadd

    Yep

  • No, of course not in reality (Hint: This is Sia, Nom De disqus, Grasshoper, etc). I was just pointing out the oddity if our friend’s claim were true.

  • I am opposed to any laws forcing parents to vaccinate their kids. Can you point me to such a law so I can voice my objections?

    Force means held down or jail …. you know, actual force.

  • Here is the MSDS for Citric Acid:

    http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923494

    Scared of lemons?

  • 2)What elephant is that?

    If you mean the fact that vaccines have risks, I admit that.

  • Of course not, Ron. However, the fact that is a compound does mean it’s not an element.

  • After =/= because.

  • 200 years is long enough.

  • Vaccines don’t attack anything.

  • Diet dee

    In some states if you vaccinate then you can’t go to school. Depends on that state.

  • I asked for *force*, Diet Dee. You know, jail, being held down.

    Give me a US law that does that.

  • Ron Roy

    An element is still part of a compound! IDIOT!

  • Bill Chaffee

    Unfortunately her one false statement detracts from her other statements which I believe are true. Thimersol is about 49.55% mercury by weight. The NFPA 704 diamond gives it a toxicity rating of 3, (4 is the highest).

  • It isn’t merely false.

    It is either sloppy or lying.

    As for by weight…um, so? Sodium chloride is 100% sodium and chloride by weight. Water is about 80% oxygen by weight, iirc – I still wouldn’t advise trying to breathe it.

    https://cameochemicals(dot)noaa(dot)gov/chemical/1064 – for elemental mercury.

    No, that appears to be something similar to the MSDS. Would you be scared of lemon drizzle cake if I showed you the MSDS for that? This question is about logic, not routes.

    But just out of curiosity (this isn’t the right sheet either since ethylmercury is an organic compound):

    “Exposure Limits
    NIOSH REL
    NIOSH REL:
    Hg Vapor: TWA 0.05 mg/m3 [skin]
    Other: C 0.1 mg/m3 [skin]
    OSHA PEL
    TWA 0.1 mg/m3”

    What does that mean to you?

  • Bill Chaffee

    I received an error message when I clicked on your link stating “safari cannot open this page”.

  • It wasn’t a link – it was a malformed web address.

    Copy-paste into your web browser address bar, fix the (dot) to . and hit return.

  • Bill Chaffee

    You state that she is either sloppy or lying. I will pick the former because come to think of it I made a sloppy statement. Since I am working with an iPad I didn’t click on anything rather I touched the apparent link on a touch screen. Maybe I should substitute the word tap in place of the work click to avoid a misleading statement. There is probably a way to follow your instructions on a ipad however I may need help at an Apple Store to do it.

  • No, not the same thing at all. Her statement was on the same order as deciding that salt is an explosive metal releasing poisonous gas.

    My instructions did not differentiate between platforms.

    But okay:

    Just highlight it and tap – there’ll be an option to copy. Tap ‘copy’ and then touch the browser [Safari] address bar then click ‘paste’. Highlight the (dot)s and your keyboard should come up – you might have to double-tap though. Change the (dot)s to . then hit enter/return.

  • well duh they were just starting to make vaccines, of course the first ones weren’t gonna be perfect. also your first source links to your other blog, and the article on that lists this blog three times. then again you think vaccines are inefficient and cause autism so of course your head is too far up your uneducated ass to be able to cite scientifically proven sources-oh no wait, all the scientifically proven sources just prove that you’re wrong. i can’t believe you’d rather have your child risk deadly diseases than have a mental illness.