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Why the Chicken Pox Vaccine Makes NO Sense

The chicken pox vaccine, formally known as the varicella vaccination, was added to the recommended childhood vaccination schedule in 1995. Prior to this vaccine’s creation, it was a common practice for families to expose children to others who had the chicken pox. The disease was considered a normal part of childhood and it was widely known that chicken pox in childhood posed little to no risk of serious harm. Risks associated with chicken pox are more common in adults and those with compromised immune systems.

My Experience With The Chicken Pox Illness And Vaccination

I clearly remember exposing my middle child to my older one during his outbreak of chicken pox, ensuring both would develop lifelong immunity to this once common, mild childhood disease. They both developed the common rash and mild discomfort of itching and low fever. I remember feeling relieved and happy when my middle daughter broke out in a skin rash, the telltale symptoms of chicken pox.

Unfortunately, by the time my youngest child was in school, the chicken pox vaccine had been created and I willingly vaccinated her. I blindly trusted my pediatrician, our health care system and the practice of vaccinations at that time. Why experience the inconvenience of this childhood disease when it could be easily prevented by a simple vaccine? The natural health benefits of normally acquiring childhood diseases are, in fact, many, in addition to acquiring real, lifelong immunity to disease.

Questionable Immunity Promised By Vaccinations

Natural exposure to a disease ensures real immunity to disease, while immunity promised by vaccine makers often prove to be temporary, if it exists at all. Recent outbreaks of mumps in Harvard students, who were vaccinated for mumps, has been reported widely in the news. Less reported was the 2010 report that Merck falsified data in their MMR vaccine to show a 95 percent effectiveness rate against mumps. [1]

News reports of outbreaks of measles in those vaccinated have also been reported. These outbreaks again bring into question the true effectiveness of these vaccinations.  A 2002 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study has shown only a 44 percent effectiveness rate for the chicken pox vaccination, which was earlier claimed to be 70-90 percent effective. [2, 3]

History Of Chicken Pox Vaccine

The chicken pox vaccine was added to the childhood vaccine schedule in 1995, with the booster dose added in 2006. A single dose of the vaccination promised to reduce the risk of chicken pox by 70-90 percent, with two doses reducing the risk more. The vaccine is available as a single vaccination, but also available as part of the MMRV vaccine (measles, mumps, rubella and varicella vaccine). [4]

The chicken pox vaccination was developed in Japan in the 1970s as a live attenuated vaccine. Two live virus vaccines are licensed for the chicken pox in the United States: Varivax and Proquad (MMRV), which are both manufactured by Merck. The CDC recommends vaccination at age 12 months, with a booster shot between ages 4 and 6. [5, 6]

Normal Course Of Childhood Chicken Pox Disease

Chicken pox is considered to be a mild disease in children, with most experiencing no complications. The first symptoms to appear are an itchy rash on the head, which spreads to the trunk of the body. The skin rash raises with blisters forming, until the blisters crust over and disappear, within 14 days. Fever and fatigue are also common symptoms.

Chicken pox is easily transmitted with 90 percent of non-immune family members contracting the disease. Transmission occurs through respiratory droplets and fluid from the blisters. One is considered infectious from one to two days prior to the rash appearing, until the blisters crust over, no longer containing fluid. [7]

Most children and adults who have complications from chicken pox have compromised immune systems or other health problems.

Chicken pox, caused by the varicella zoster virus (VZV), is an acute infectious disease. The recurrent infection, herpes zoster, more commonly known as shingles, has been recognized since ancient times. Herpes zoster, or shingles, occurs when the latent VZV infection is reactivated, commonly later in life. Shingles, while painful, is generally short-lived, but can last longer in some cases. [8]

Risks And Side Effects Of The Chicken Pox Vaccine

Reported complications from the chicken pox vaccine include shock, seizures, encephalitis/brain inflammation, blood disorder, Guillain-Barre syndrome, and death. As of September 1, 2015, 122 claims were filed in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for serious injuries and deaths following the chicken pox vaccination, including eight deaths.

Using the MEDAlerts search engine, as of September 30, 2015, there were 3,358 serious adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) which were connected with the chickenpox vaccination. These reports of serious injury had occurred since 1990. More than half of the serious injuries reported were in children 6 years of age or younger. 161 deaths were reported. By 2011, nearly 50,000 total reports of adverse events were made to VAERS. [9]

Effectiveness And Related Issues Of The Chicken Pox Vaccination

A 2002 CDC study reported that the chicken pox vaccine was only 44 percent effective against the disease. Because of breakthrough of chicken pox in children vaccinated, a booster shot was recommended for all children ages 4-6.

Another 2002 study showed that adults exposed to children with natural immunity to chicken pox benefited from protection from shingles later in life. Due to concern that mass vaccination of children against chicken pox may lead to a shingles epidemic, Merck developed the shingles vaccine in 2006. The CDC recommends this vaccine for all adults over age 60. [10]

YOU Decide

Chicken pox is considered to be a mild, childhood disease, which is self-limiting with symptoms of an itchy rash, often accompanied by mild fever. By contrast, the chicken pox vaccination, which theoretically offers protection from this mild illness, is associated with serious complications, including the deaths of 161 previously healthy children.

Does it make sense to vaccinate against a mild childhood disease with a vaccination which carries risk of serious injury and death? Only you can decide.

 

References:

  1. https://vactruth.com/2016/04/30/harvard-mumps-outbreak/
  2. https://vactruth.com/2016/02/18/mmr-vaccine/
  3. http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx
  4. http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/chickenpox-varicella
  5. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html
  6. http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx
  7. http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/chickenpox-varicella
  8. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html
  9. http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx
  10. http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx

 

About the Author:

Michelle Goldstein is a mental health therapist who is passionate about holistic health, natural healing, nutrient-dense foods and the politics that impact them. She has published articles for Natural News, VacTruth, and other health websites. All of her published articles to date can be found at her health website, Holistic Health to Go. She can also be followed on her Facebook Page, Holistic Health to Go.

 

Photo Credit

Michelle Goldstein
 

Michelle Goldstein is a mental health therapist who is passionate about holistic health, natural healing, nutrient-dense foods and the politics that impact them. She has published articles for Natural News, VacTruth, and other health websites. All of her published articles to date can be found at her health website, Holistic Health to Go. She can also be followed on her Facebook Page.

  • LawrenceNeal

    Why have a dangerous vaccine for a mild disease? Most people are unable to comprehend that the so-called ‘government’ is a construct of the .001% Elite, and their agenda is population reduction.

  • rockie

    Immunization by vaccines were a good idea, gone (VERY) awry.

  • chemfreemom

    Vaccination is a better word than immunization, because they don’t provide true immunity.

  • rockie

    Good point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Unless “true” is being used in some idiosyncratic sense. Pretty much all evidence strongly suggests that vaccines provide true immunity.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Chicken pox is considered to be a mild, childhood disease, which is self-limiting with symptoms of an itchy rash, often accompanied by mild fever. By contrast, the chicken pox vaccination, which theoretically offers protection from this mild illness, is associated with serious complications, including the deaths of 161 previously healthy children.

    It’s important to put numbers on things….

    Chicken pox is according to the CDC responsible for about 10 000 hospitalization and over 100 deaths a year. Responsible for. Not “associated with”. You claim 161 deaths “associated with” varicella vaccination in VAERS. That’s since 1995 – that’s 7 per year as opposed to 100. The usual response here is to make up some kind of factor for under reporting in VAERS. However this wouldn’t take into consideration that association isn’t causation. When you create that figure, you simply end up with a result that you can’t reconcile to any other epidemiological data.

    Chicken pox does not guarantee lifelong immunity. If it did then you wouldn’t need re-exposure to keep shingles rates low. Neither does vaccination but vaccination can achieve the elimination of this human reservoir disease. Chicken pox can’t.

    So it seems to make sense.

  • Nelda McEwen

    You can’t use words like ‘wane’ and ‘boosters’ and assume this is an improvement over nature. This is how the legacy of generations upon generations of natural immunity is intentionally broken by ‘medical science’.

  • ~ 100 a year from Natural Immunity = Harmless disease.

    Maybe 11/year if we exaggerate from raw VAERS data from vaccines = catastrophic dangerous poisons.

    Lurkers: Sure you want to take medical advice from people who don’t know that 108>11?

  • Of course not. That’s what proving it is for – and yes, natural immunity is intentionally broken by medical science – do you know what natural immunity can do? Hint: If you won’t listen to scientists and doctors – ask a genealogist about how well that worked.

    Do you know what boosters are in nature? Getting exposed from infected individuals.

  • Nelda:

    The word we use for someone who has lost their parents is ‘orphan’ – we have a word for when someone has lost their parents.

    The word we use for someone who has lost their spouse is ‘widow/widower’- we have paired gendered words for when someone has lost their spouse.

    The English language has around 1,025,110 words but the dictionary can not offer a single one for ‘parent who has lost a child’ – do you know why?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Unless you can clarify it would seem that any preventative measure is going to be intentionally breaking the “generations of natural immunity”. So are we in favor of not washing our hands? Bringing back typhoid? What?

  • Sonja Henie

    The vaccine is not dangerous! Why continue to spread that myth?

  • LawrenceNeal

    It is known that the industry hires trolls to distract and disrupt.

  • Sonja Henie

    Oh, is it now?

  • Did you even bother to read this above article? So what exactly is your idea and concept of the term, dangerous?

    Risks And Side Effects Of The Chicken Pox Vaccine

    Reported complications from the chicken pox vaccine include shock, seizures, encephalitis/brain inflammation, blood disorder, Guillain-Barre syndrome, and death.

    Using the MEDAlerts search engine, as of September 30, 2015, there were 3,358 serious adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) which were connected with the chickenpox vaccination.

  • Are you sure that natural immunity is the only thing that is broken, in the use of vaccines? You are not considering the entire picture, in this situation.

    So conveniently now this finding is considered ONLY applicable to the creation of another big pharma vaccine. The modern big pharma based medical model; always as profit crazy asa monkey chasing its tail.

    Brain Cancer Risk May Be Reduced in Those With History of Chicken Pox

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

    In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.]

    http://neurosciencenews.com/glioma-brain-cancer-chicken-pox-3942/

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery
    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Studies show: Natural Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox & Influenza viruses protect against cancer
    http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2015/03/10/studies-show-natural-mumps-measles-chicken-pox-influenza-viruses-protect-against-cancer/

    Curr Top Microbiol Immunol. 2009; 330: 213–241.
    Measles virus for cancer therapy
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926122/

    Protective Effect of Childhood Measles Against Degenerative Diseases in Later Life

    The above study indicates that a lack of rash in measles is associated with an increased incidence of autoimmune and degenerative diseases in later life. As the rash is the means through which the toxin is expelled from the body, its absence leads to the measles virus remaining in the body. The widespread use of vaccination has led to the appearance of “atypical measles” and “mild measles” where no rash develops. This can expose children to diseases in later life.

    Read more:

    http://www.vaccines.me/articles/afcjt-protective-effect-of-childhood-measles-against-degenerative-diseases-in-later-life.cfm

    Measles Virus Infection Without Rash In Childhood Is Related To Disease In Adult Life. The Lancet, January 5 1985

    Abstract

    The presence of measles specific antibodies is usually taken as evidence of typical measles in the past; in the present study it was regarded as evidence of infection with measles virus, but not necessarily of the common disease accompanied by a typical rash. The association between a negative history of measles in childhood and certain diseases later in life was investigated by a historical prospective method, based on school health records combined with self-reporting in adulthood, and tests for specific IgG measles antibody. There was evidence of association between a negative history of measles, exposure in early life (possibly injection of immune serum globulin after exposure), and development of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours. It is suggested that the presence of measles virus specific antibodies at the time of acute infection interferes with development of specific cytolytic reactions, and enables intracellular measles virus to survive the acute infection. If this hypothesis is verified, use of immune serum globulin after measles exposure has to be reconsidered.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2885%2990961-4/abstract

    Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    A recent study found that women vaccinated with the measles vaccine pass on far less immunity to their offspring than women who are not vaccinated. Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/503025.stm

    Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage

    Conclusions. Children of mothers vaccinated against measles and, possibly, rubella have lower concentrations of maternal antibodies and lose protection by maternal antibodies at an earlier age than children of mothers in communities that oppose vaccination. This increases the risk of disease transmission in highly vaccinated populations.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

    The truth about the measles, natural immunity, and the vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-truth-about-the-measles-natural-immunity-and-the-vaccine.html

    Viera Scheibner was actually, right.

    Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) at:http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Vaccines Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    https://liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    Vaccine. 2008 Mar 25;26(14):1725-30. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2008.01.041. Epub 2008 Feb 13.

    Kinetics of asthma- and allergy-associated immune response gene expression in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from vaccinated infants after in vitro re-stimulation with vaccine antigen.

    Lahdenperä AI1, Nilsson LJ, Regnström K.

    Abstract

    The global expression of immune response genes in infants after vaccination and their role in asthma and allergy is not clearly understood. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study the involved cellular responses, since the expression of thousands of genes can be assessed simultaneously. Here, array technology was used to assess the expression kinetics of immune response genes with association to asthma and allergy in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) of five healthy infants after vaccination with Infanrix-Polio+Hib. At 12h after in vitro re-stimulation of the PBMC with pertussis toxin (PT) antigen, 14 immune response pathways, 33 allergy-related and 66 asthma-related genes were found activated.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336961

    What’s Really in the DTaP Vaccine?
    https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/whats-really-in-the-dtap/

    Proof That Vaccinations Cause Learning Disabilities & Autism
    http://www.vaclib.org/basic/proofaut.htm

    Get the picture???

  • Jonathan Graham

    Are you sure that natural immunity is the only thing that is broken, in the use of vaccines?

    No, I’m sure it caused the creation of Nickleback which is something we all lament. The only one talking about this vague notion of “broken natural immunity” is the original poster. So you’ll have to ask them.

    So conveniently now this finding is considered ONLY applicable to the creation of another big pharma vaccine.

    As is almost universally true you haven’t read the study you cite. In this case, the study clearly states that it didn’t include people who were vaccinated because they were too young. So this says nothing about vaccines.

    If it’s all the same to you I’m not that interested in reading a bunch of things which you can’t be troubled to read thoroughly to be useful to your point or deal with the fact that you don’t know how to write a clear and unambiguous hypothesis. Get back to me when you figure that one out. Cheers.

  • Who do you know that ever had natural chicken pox, twice? Shingles is of course related to chicken pox, (varicella); and nature, call it creation if you will, provided for a means for the immune system to suppress and prevent shingles, and by adult re-exposure to childhood chicken pox. And you really think that all of mans ways in making a varicella vaccine, and then immediately in turn due to that vaccine, then needed to also create a shingles vaccine; is all just then the big pharma savior holy water, miracle of miracles?

    Autism rise linked to chickenpox vaccine containing aborted fetal DNA
    http://www.examiner.com/article/autism-rise-linked-to-chickenpox-vaccine-containing-aborted-fetal-dna?cid=rss

    STUDIES AND RESEARCHES ON AUTISM DISORDERS

    The health risks of using human fetal cell lines for vaccine manufacture have been debated by scientists for over 50 years.

    The active component of a vaccine is a virus. Viruses are too large to manufacture in test tubes. Therefore, vaccine manufacturers exploit the natural method of producing virus– they inoculate cells and the cells produce the virus for them. Each vial of vaccine contains contaminants from the cells used to make the virus. When we use animal cells to make viruses, the residual material is not human and so we mount an immune response to it and eliminate it. However, in the case of vaccines produced using human fetal cell lines, we have the health risk of triggering an autoimmune response and insertion of the contaminating DNA to disrupt the child’s own genes.

    In the US, autism has spiked up in 3 distinct years, called changepoints. The first changepoint occurred in 1981, the second in 19881, and the third in 1996. These spikes coincide with the introduction of vaccines that are produced in human fetal cells. In 1979, human fetal cell produced MMR II was approved in the US. Compliance campaigns brought MMR II use up from as low as 49% for children born before 1987 to over 82% for children born in 1989 and later. A second dose of MMR II was also introduced to the vaccination schedule for children born in 1988 and later. The third changepoint corresponds to the approval of human fetal cell produced Varivax (chickenpox) in 1995 (See figure below).

    Read more:
    http://soundchoice.org/autism/

    Chickenpox Vaccine Use is Highly Statistically Related to Autism Disorder
    Source Sound Choice:

    By Dr. Theresa Deisher

    Over four years ago it was obvious to my eye that autism disorder rates changed dramatically in certain specific years. Looking at autism disorder prevalence data from the US Dept of Education it was clear that there were three specific years in which autism prevalence rose dramatically, and Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute (SCPI) went on to perform the statistical analysis to show that 1980, 1988 and 1996 were ‘changepoint’ years for autism disorder. In 2010 the EPA published data confirming the 1988 changepoint as a worldwide autism disorder changepoint. As the EPA scientists point out in their publication, identification of ‘changepoints’ such as these tell us that some environmental factor was introduced that triggered such a sudden and dramatic rise in autism. Pasted below are the 3 changepoints Sound Choice identified for autism disorder prevalence in the US.

    What environmental factor is associated with these three changepoints? The only childhood universal factor that is associated with all three changepoints is the introduction of vaccines contaminated with aborted fetal DNA and retroviral fragments. In 1979 the first aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (MMRII), in 1989 a second dose of this vaccine was added and compliance doubled, and in 1995 another aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the US (Varicella – chickenpox).

    Read More:
    http://onemoresoul.com/news-commentary/chickenpox-vaccine-use-is-highly-statistically-related-to-autism-disorder.html

    Image:
    http://onemoresoul.com/files/2012/10/EPA-data-changepoints1.png

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 1. [Epub ahead of print]
    Goldman GS, King PG.

    Review of the United States universal varicella vaccination program: Herpes zoster incidence rates, cost-effectiveness, and vaccine efficacy based primarily on the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project data.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22659447

    Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster
    Gary S. Goldman
    http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/24/4/205.abstract

    Summary of The Chickenpox Vaccine: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption (pdf)

    28. Concluding comments: Prior to the universal varicella vaccination program, 95% of adults experienced natural chickenpox (usually as school aged children)—these cases were usually benign and resulted in long term immunity. This high percentage of individuals having long term immunity has been compromised by mass vaccination of children which provides at best 70 to 90% immunity that is temporary and of unknown duration—shifting chickenpox to a more vulnerable adult population where chickenpox carries 20 times more risk of death and 15 times more risk of hospitalization compared to children. Add to this the adverse effects of both the chickenpox and shingles vaccines as well as the potential for increased risk of shingles for an estimated 30 to 50 years among adults. The Universal Varicella (Chickenpox) Vaccination Program now requires booster vaccines; however, these are less effective than the natural immunity that existed in communities prior to licensure of the varicella vaccine. Routine vaccination against chickenpox has produced continual cycles of treatment and disease.

    Read more:
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Goldman-SummaryofChickenpoxVaccine1.pdf

    The Case against Universal Varicella Vaccination
    Gary S. Goldman

    CONCLUSIONS

    With regard to the reporting in VAERS, it is true that causality is rarely proven; however, the timing of a disease closely following a vaccination and lack of any other obvious cause are most often the only criteria of potential significance for a suspected adverse reaction. A temporal relationship was the only criteria used in the postmarketing evaluation by Black et al. (1999). Admittedly, the spontaneous reporting in general and VAERS in particular are unreliable. Thus, it is illogical for the FDA or CDC to acknowledge these limitations, yet state that VAERS serves “to reassure the general public concerning the safety of a new vaccine” (Zhou et al. 2003)—basing assessment of the safety of the varicella vaccine only on an analysis of VAERS (Wise et al. 2000). Sophisticated safety assessments using reliable methodology have never been performed and these should precede any mass vaccination program.

    In communities with widespread varicella vaccine coverage, at least three initial assumptions used to justify the U.S. Universal Varicella Vaccination Program and its cost-benefit analysis (Lieu 1994), are no longer valid: (1) a single dose provides lifelong immunity; (2) there is no immunologically-mediated link between varicella incidence and HZ incidence; and (3) the vaccine is safe. As deleterious effects became quantified, updated cost analysis by F. Zhou (2005) of the National Immunization Program (NIP) that excluded increased HZ in persons with a history of varicella due to reduced exposure to varicella, but included HZ in vaccinees and outbreak management costs concluded “the two-dose program may not be cost effective.” Thus, countries should take a circumspect view when evaluating the cost-benefit of universal varicella vaccination to determine if it is worth the risk of offsetting the natural balance of varicella and herpes zoster in their communities and nations and embarking upon a program that introduces continual disease and (expensive) treatment cycles.

    Read more:
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=FC7E3E644EE5DD2501BB76EBD0B9F211?doi=10.1.1.521.1389&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    NVIC Challenges VAERS Data of Chickenpox Vaccine Adverse Events
    http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/pressrelease/pressrelease9132000.aspx

    Risk Of Viral Reactivation With Shingles Vaccine, (did the CDC inform you of this yet, no?)
    Posted on September 26, 2012 by Vaccine Injury Lawyer
    http://www.vaccineinjuryhelpcenter.com/shingles-vaccine/

    Varicella Vaccine Effectiveness in the US Vaccination Program: A Review
    Outbreak investigations.

    During the early years of the varicella vaccination program, outbreaks were reported to occur predominantly in child care centers [13, 17, 18]. In more-recent years, outbreaks have been reported to occur almost exclusively in elementary schools, some of which have extremely high vaccine coverage (96%–98%) [10, 19, 21, 25].

    Read more:
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S82.long

    Epidemiologist Confirms Serious Outbreak of Chicken Pox, 97 Percent Who Were Vaccinated
    http://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/12/11/epidemiologist-confirms-serious-outbreak-of-chicken-pox-97-percent-who-were-vaccinated/

  • guest

    -“The clinical course in healthy children is generally mild, with malaise, pruritus (itching), and fever up to 102°F for 2–3 days. Adults may have more severe disease and have a higher incidence of complications.” CDC. Varicella. The Pink Book, 12th Edition (2012).

    The Case against Universal Varicella Vaccination
    Gary S. Goldman http://www.tested.net/vaccines/goldman.pdf

    Generally, it is advised that persons recently given chickenpox vaccine avoid close contact for at least six weeks after vaccination with potentially susceptible persons,such as immune compromised persons, pregnant women, newborn infants and premature babies, especially if a rash develops after vaccination. In the Varivax product information, Merck states:

    “Post-marketing experience suggests that transmission of vaccine virus may occur rarely between healthy vaccinees who develop a varicella-like rash and healthy susceptible contacts. Transmission of vaccine virus from a mother who did not develop a varicella-like rash to her newborn infant has been reported.

    Also on the pkg insert: VARIVAX is a live, attenuated varicella-zoster vaccine (VZV) and may cause an extensive vaccine-associated rash or disseminated disease in individuals who are immunosuppressed or immunodeficient (plain english children can become infected by the vaccine immunocompromised or not)

    – Risk of Vaccine Virus Transmission
    Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX. Susceptible high-risk individuals include:
    • Immunocompromised individuals;
    • Pregnant women without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection;
    • Newborn infants of mothers without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella immunity.

    -Chickenpox Vaccine Can Cause Vaccine Strain Infection:
    There have been published reports in the medical literature that live virus varicella
    vaccine can cause vaccine strain varicella virus infection in a healthy or immune compromised recipient or close contact of a vaccinated person .(Galea SA, Sweet A, Beninger P et al. The Safety Profile of Varicella Vaccine: A 10-Year Review. J Infect Dis2008; 197 (Supplement 2): S165-S169).

    One report by U.S. researchers published in the medical literature in 2000 (Brunell PA, Argaw T. Chickenpox Attributable to a Vaccine Virus Contracted From a Vaccinee With Zoster. Pediatrics Aug. 1, 2000;106 (2) describes the case of two healthy brothers, who were given varicella zoster vaccine and five months later, one of the boys developed shingles (zoster). Then, several weeks later the other boy got a mild case of chicken pox.

    -Another similar case was reported in Japan. A healthy 3 year old girl developed shingles two years after she had received chickenpox vaccine and shortly afterwards her healthy brother developed vaccine strain chickenpox infection with fever and rash.
    Otsuka T, Gomi Y, Inoue N, Uchiyama M. Transmission of Varicella Vaccine Virus,
    Japan. Emerg Infect Dis Oct. 2009; 15(10): 1702-1703.

    -Chicken pox vaccine has high rate of primary vaccine failure – Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal: http://therefusers(dot)com/refusers-newsroom/chicken-pox-vaccine-has-high-rate-of-primary-vaccine-failure-pediatric-infectious-disease-journal/#.UTc9-xzIOWb.
    -Primary Versus Secondary Failure After Varicella Vaccination: Implications for Interval Between 2 Doses
    http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Fulltext/2013/0700

    /Primary_Versus_Secondary_Failure_After_Varicella.21.aspx#
    -Why giving children the chicken pox jab could give YOU shingles
    http://www.dailymail(dot)co.uk/health/article-1158655/Why-giving-children-chicken-pox-jab-YOU-shingles.html
    -Chickenpox Vaccine Protection Fails; Booster Needed
    http://vaccineawakening.blogspot(dot)com/2007/03/chickenpox-vaccine-protection-fails.html.
    -New Study Backs Up Evidence Chicken Pox Vaccine Causing Epidemic of Shingles
    http://healthimpactnews(dot)com/2013/new-study-backs-up-evidence-chicken-
    pox-vaccine-causing-epidemic-of-shingles/
    -Brief Summary of Chickenpox: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil(dot)org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Goldman-SummaryofChickenpoxVaccine1.pdf.
    -Chickenpox outbreak in a highly vaccinated school population.
    Pediatrics. 2004 Oct;114(4):1130; author reply 1131.
    -Outbreak of varicella at a day-care center despite vaccination.
    N Engl J Med. 2002 Dec 12;347(24):1909-15.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477940

    ProQuad® Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella Virus Vaccine Live Lyophilized preparation for subcutaneous injection
    5.8 Risk of Vaccine Virus Transmission
    Post-licensing experience with VARIVAX suggests that transmission of varicella vaccine virus may occur between healthy vaccine recipients (who develop or do not develop a varicella-like rash) and contacts susceptible to varicella, as well as high-risk individuals susceptible to varicella.
    *High-risk individuals susceptible to varicella include:
    -Immunocompromised individuals;
    -Pregnant women without documented positive history of
    varicella (chickenpox) or laboratory evidence of prior infection;
    -Newborn infants of mothers without documented positive
    history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella immunity.

    *Vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, to the extent possible, close association with high-risk individuals susceptible to varicella for up to 6 weeks following vaccination.
    *In circumstances where contact with high-risk individuals susceptible to varicella is unavoidable, the potential risk of transmission of the varicella vaccine virus should be weighed
    against the risk of acquiring and transmitting wild-type varicella virus.

    -Excretion of small amounts of the live, attenuated rubella virus from the nose or throat has occurred in the majority of susceptible individuals 7 to 28 days after vaccination. There is no confirmed evidence to indicate that such virus is transmitted to susceptible persons who are in contact with the vaccinated individuals. Consequently, transmission through close personal contact, while accepted as a theoretical possibility, is not regarded as a significant risk. However, transmission of the rubella vaccine virus to infants via breast milk has been documented [see Use in Specific Populations (8.3)].

    -The American Academy of Pediatrics states: Approximately 3% to 5% of immunized children will develop a localized rash, and an additional 3% to 5% will develop a generalized varicella-like rash.
    These rashes typically consist of 2 to 5 lesions and may be maculopapular rather than vesicular; lesions usually appear 5 to 26 days after immunization … A temperature higher than 37.8°C (100°F) has been reported in 10% of adolescents and adults who are immunized with the vaccine. Serious adverse events, such as encephalitis, ataxia, erythema multiforme, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, pneumonia, thrombocytopenia, seizures, neuropathy, and death, have been reported rarely in temporal association with varicella vaccine. So you can get both chickenpox and the neurological complications of chickenpox (including death) from the vaccine.

    Hautarzt. 2013 Jan 30. [Epub ahead of print]
    Herpes zoster after varicella-zoster vaccination.
    Fahlbusch M, Wesselmann U, Lehmann P.
    HELIOS Klinikum Wuppertal, Heusnerstr. 40, 42283, Wuppertal, Deutschland, [email protected].

    Abstract
    A five-year-old girl, vaccinated against varicella-zoster virus (VZV) presented with clinical symptoms of herpes zoster in the 6th cervical dermatome. A VZV direct immune-fluorescence assay was negative three times but additional genotypical analysis showed a VZV strain genotype 2 (Oka vaccine strain). Therefore the diagnosis of a breakthrough varicella disease with the vaccine strain was established. An immunodeficiency was ruled out and the patient responded well to the
    initiated therapy. This case demonstrates that a negative VZV direct immunofluorescence assay does not exclude an infection with the vaccine strain.
    Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358727..

    1 child in 6 in the US is chronically ill. Chronically ill equals immunocompromised. Not a blown out immune system but an immune system that's not functioning at 100%. That means any child injected with the chicken pox vaccine is contagious and children who come into contact with them are at risk.
    Trends in the Prevalence of Developmental Disabilities in US Children, 1997–2008

  • How Vaccines Dysregulate The Immune System
    http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/how-vaccines-dysregulate-the-immune-system/

    Vaccinations Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    http://www.liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    How Do Vaccines Work? Immune Mechanisms and Consequences
    http://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/component/option,com_crossjoomlaarticlemanager/Itemid,375/aid,1369/view,crossjoomlaarticlemanager/#sthash.rkJSugBv.dpuf

    Your Immune System, How It Works And How Vaccines Damage It
    http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Your-Immune-System-How-It-Works-And-How-Vaccines-Damage-It

    Anatomy and Physiology of the Immune System, Part 4
    How pharmaceuticals destroy nature
    http://jonbarron.org/article/anatomy-and-physiology-immune-system-part-4#.UwH0pvldXbY

    Understanding immunity requires more than immunology
    http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v11/n7/full/ni0710-561.html

    Nothing causes more brain inflammation and over activation of the brains microglia cells than the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines, and combined with the immune re-activity of multiple vaccines.

    Evidence of oxidative damage and inflammation associated with low glutathione redox status in the autism brain

    Together, these results indicate that decreased GSH/GSSG redox/antioxidant capacity and increased oxidative stress in the autism brain may have functional consequence in terms of a chronic inflammatory response, increased mitochondrial superoxide production, and oxidative protein and DNA damage.

    Read more:
    http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v2/n7/full/tp201261a.html

    Infant Immunity Part II: Aluminum, vaccines, and fetal brain development, with Dr. Suzanne Humphries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdSCY7W-BUo

    Big Pharma’s Dirty Little Secret: Vaccine-Induced Autoimmune Injury
    Massive Peptide Sharing, Massive Autoimmunity?
    http://www.healthnutnews.com/big-pharmas-dirty-little-secret-vaccine-induced-autoimmune-injury/

    Vaccines Don’t Protect: Exposing the Vaccination for Immunity Fraud
    http://naturalsociety.com/exposing-vaccination-for-immunity-fraud/

    There is No Such Thing as a Safe Vaccine and there Never Will Be
    http://naturalsociety.com/never-be-safe-vaccine-never-will/

    Vaccine Fraud: The Polio Elimination by Vaccine Hoax/‘The Change the Name Game’
    http://naturalsociety.com/vaccine-fraud-the-polio-elimination-by-vaccine-hoax/

    Opting Out: The Moral Right to Religious and Conscientious-Belief Exemptions to Vaccination
    http://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/Informed-Choice/opting-out.html

    Renaming and rediagnosing polio scam
    http://www.greatmothersquestioningvaccines.com/polio.htm

    These 1959 Reports Show Measles Was Considered a ‘Mild Infection’
    https://truthkings.com/these-1959-reports-show-measles-was-considered-a-mild-infection/#

  • Jonathan Graham

    and nature, call it creation if you will, provided for a means for the immune system to suppress and prevent shingles, and by adult re-exposure to childhood chicken pox

    …well then I hope nature has a complaint dept since it did a pretty awful job. If shingles cases in the elderly are increasing, they aren’t by very much or for very long.

    And you really think that all of mans ways in making a varicella vaccine, and then immediately in turn due to that vaccine, then needed to also create a shingles vaccine; is all just then the big pharma savior holy water, miracle of miracles?

    English please.

    As for long lists of cites that you didn’t read. Again, learn to make a clear and unambiguous hypothesis and to concisely support it. Otherwise…yawn.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nothing causes more brain inflammation and over activation of the brains microglia cells than the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines, and combined with the immune re-activity of multiple vaccines.

    Please don’t put words beside a study link unless the study actually contains those words…or that is the clear subject of the piece. Neither was true here.

    No clear and unambiguous hypothesis from Lowell. No interest. :-)

  • NIckleback? You really are, quite creepy.

    You deliberately missed the point to the entire set of information here.

    In the fist link which is an article about the study, it states:

    [In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research]

    In the second link, which is the study itself, it states:

    [Furthermore, because of its ability to replicate rapidly and lyse malignant glioma cells in vitro, VZV has even been proposed as a novel candidate for glioma virotherapy [14].]

    So my point was that a major amount of focus is being put on making a vaccine/virotherapy to combat glioma, (brain cancer). Which coincidentally that virotherapy is appears to be the the same thing that you get when you acquire natural varicella, and recover. Just like recovery from natural measles provides a priming and a natural effect in correctly regulating the immune system against other illness and health disorders later in life, as the later study I posted points out. So what do you still not get about this and as to the point of what was put forth here, and as I intended to be?

    The study also states:

    [The biological mechanism through which chickenpox may confer protection against glioma is currently unclear. One proposed mechanism is that VZV antibodies may demonstrate some cross reactivity to tumor cells (or other oncogenic viruses), and are thus capable of helping mount a protective immune response against existing tumor cells [9]. Conversely, it is also possible that individuals who are more likely to develop cancer may be unable to mount strong immune responses to infections such as VZV [23]. ]

    So what effect do you think injecting toxic and known contaminated vaccines has on that process, and with their non specific aluminum adjuvant caused immune re-activity boosting, created inflammation, and resulting immune system dyregulation?

    And then we go to this section of the study.

    [Prior serologic analyses have demonstrated that antibody composition differs between children who experience a wild-type VZV infection versus those who were received the vaccine [24]. Some evidence indicates that antibodies against specific VZV-encoded proteins (i.e., VZV ORF2 and IE63) may be more important than others in conferring protection against glioma [13], but the vaccine does not contain antigens corresponding to all 70 VZV open reading frames [1, 3, 24]. Thus, future research ascertaining whether the vaccine confers similar protection against glioma as the wild-type VZV infection is of high importance and may lend insight into the biological mechanisms at play.]

    So, and as with most preliminary research we can gain conclusions from this study but as said, more research needs to be done. Quite obviously when the varicella vaccinated verses unvaccinated similar data as to this study becomes available, these kind of studies will be telling us specifically a lot more. You can see that there are significant trade off with vaccines, and where you are trading the convenience of a child never having chicken pox, with acquiring health outcomes that are much more severe and causing permanent harm to health, and if not death itself. You simply again and again refuse to get it. Do not ever tell me that I do not understand what i put forth, and when it is you that is simply evading the issues put forth.

  • Jonathan Graham

    NIckleback? You really are, quite creepy.

    Hey vaccines may have created Nickleback but it’s people like you who made them popular.

    In the fist link

    …and you call me creepy. Brrrr.

    which is an article about the study, it states:

    Just in case you forgot I’ll introduce you to your thesis:

    Are you sure that natural immunity is the only thing that is broken, in the use of vaccines?

    So does this study directly say anything about this thesis? Nope. Hence you either didn’t know that it was irrelevant or didn’t care. Neither puts me in the mood to read anything else you post since you are so utterly careless about making your point.

    Do not ever tell me that I do not understand what i put forth

    It is almost always the case. Just as it is here. Sorry.

  • Sonja Henie

    It is possible, but rare, to get chickenpox twice. The kids of a friend who is a public health nurse got it twice.

  • I have previously put forth loads of information and studies that directly and conclusively show that vaccines cause over-activation of the microglia cells and with resulting brain inflammation. Go to my website as well. If you go additionally to Dr Russell Blaylock’s informative work, you can see that it is even worse than that and with much more involved as well. This information comes from so many multiple sources and studies that it is no longer even questionable as to its verified correctness.

    How about if you ended your hypocrisy and provide a clear and ambiguous hypothesis as to why my information and my claims are wrong. That, other than to simply say that none of it is true? You can’t and you know it. The needed and required vaccine safety studies showing that “none of it is true”, “and that neither is true here”, have never been done.

  • And so are you are telling me that those kids getting it twice, were never vaccinated for varicella? Or were they; that would explain it. Varicella vaccines shed, and she is a public health nurse, emm?

    Vaccine Shedding
    http://www.greatmothersquestioningvaccines.com/shedding.html

    http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/vaccine-shedding/

  • Sonja Henie

    My friend’s kids are older, and got at least their first case before the vaccine.

    You might use a more reputable source than “Greatgrandmother’s Question”. I have this link bookmarked: https://www.verywell.com/live-vaccines-and-vaccine-shedding-2633700
    Re: chickenpox-“the chicken pox vaccine doesn’t cause shedding unless your child very rarely develops a vesicular rash after getting vaccinated. However, the risk is thought to be minimal and the CDC reports only 5 cases of transmission of varicella vaccine virus after immunization among over 55 million doses of vaccine. “

  • And exactly what do I have to do with Nickleback? I am not into Nickleback and never listen to it, as a fact. Are you saying you have been following me to know what I do, and like? Really? When?

    Obviously it is not only natural immunity that is broken when you vaccinate for varicella, but also your body and immune systems ability to fight off cancer. That is what the study should have shown you, but instead you refuse what should have been an obvious conclusion, even though more specific study is of course needed. Now that is what you call, being utterly careless. It is not just cancer that vaccines create the chance for, but an endless increase in multiple adverse health conditions.

    You are always predicable so called Jonathan Graham. Same false accusations, different day and article. The same ongoing butchering of sentences and posts, and only more twisting, distracting, and the disrupting any form of honest and forthright debate whatsoever. You will eventually and as always, spin it into a pit of insanity and as well twisted madness and denial that no one as for the readers can or will ever even begin to make any sense of. That is the way you want it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I have previously put forth loads of information and studies that directly and conclusively

    Dude, what you have previously regurgitated is a bunch of links. Most of the time you appear to not have even read or not read very closely because what they represent is either an entirely unrelated point or it’s at best evidence that is statistically weak. There are whole strings of posts where you are asked to produce short cites from the links you provide and form an argument and you prove to be entirely incapable.

    But hey, you can always prove me wrong. Make a clear, specific hypothesis with clear and unambiguous expectations and provide support. Cite at most three sentences from them. As direct support for whatever part of your argument you are making.

    ….and now we get to watch you complain about how I don’t tell you what to do. :-) You may begin whining…

  • Jonathan Graham

    I am not into Nickleback and never listen to it, as a fact.

    Meethinks thou dost protest too much.

    but also your body and immune systems ability to fight off cancer. That is what the study should have shown you

    Well if you were willing to post a study which had that as a conclusion rather than one which was irrelevant to that point. Since it clearly and unambiguously states that the none of the people were vaccinated. So it can say nothing about vaccination vs. getting sick. Only getting sick vs. not getting sick.

    disrupting any form of honest and forthright debate

    Dude we’ve been down this road before. I’ve laid out for you many times what is required to make a clear, and unambiguous argument. All you can do is whine about how I don’t control you.

    Ok, no problem. You’ve got your excuse. I’ll busy myself with people who can state their premises usefully and support them clearly, unambiguously and concisely.

  • Greatmothers is always a good read, and very accurate. You can attempt to falsely discredit it all you want. You simply refused the information and then attempt to replace it with just another the false vaccine propaganda source.

    As for the varicella vaccine, your article simply states the CDC reports what the article claims it does, (and with no references). The CDC covers up and lies, and they refuse any studies that are independent and that do not support their pro-vaccine claims, and in their in denial agenda.

    Varicella vacccine shedding is not just due to vesticular rash, but through feces and bodily excretions, etc.

    Your article states that the varicella vaccine risk of shedding is low, citing only a small number of 5 cases resulting in active illness being verified.

    Yet: Chickenpox (varicella) vaccine

    “Due to the concern for transmission of vaccine virus, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid whenever possible close association with susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks following vaccination with VARIVAX. Susceptible high-risk individuals include: • Immunocompromised individuals; • Pregnant women without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection; • Newborn infants of mothers without documented history of varicella or laboratory evidence of prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella immunity.” VARIVAX® – SOURCE: Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Package Insert)

    This study wouldn't give most parents much confidence in the claim that varicella vaccine does not shed, and become an infect other people, issue.

    Secondary transmission of varicella vaccine virus in a chronic care facility for children

    A 16-year-old varicella-seronegative resident at a chronic care facility received varicella vaccine; 15 days later he developed severe varicella. Subsequently, a 13-year-old resident and a 39-year-old health care worker developed mild varicella. We demonstrate that vaccine-strain virus was transmitted to both persons, and that transmission included at least 2 variant vaccine strains.

    http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(06)00064-3/fulltext

  • You are doing nothing but repeatedly making it up as you go, none of that is true, and you are again blatantly lying about what I have, and as to what I put forth.

    Again, in your replies to my information and in your obvious hypocrisy, how about if you follow the same rules that you are attempting to set for me? So, when are you going to get started with that?

    Unlike you, I have more than sufficiently made ,and referenced my points made here in every reply post I have made so far. Just face it. The only whining going on here is you whining continually about that nothing is ever good enough for you. The truth is that you have no other option as you know you can not actually reply to and refute the information in any honesty. You have nothing.

  • [Meethinks thous dost protest too much.]

    What in your obviously twisted mind, does that mean?

    As for your claims in this post, I have already addressed that directly in a just previous post, and you refuse to come to terms with it and the reality of what i stated. Instead you simply insist on continuing to play your twisted and in denial games, as if you have read nothing at all that has been replied to you. Around and around it goes, same thing. You repeatedly ignore entirely what was replied to you, you lie, distract, distort, and disrupt. That is all you ever do.

    And again you do not make the rules, and again if you want to make rules then be sure to be the first one to follow those rules yourself, and you obviously are not.

  • Provide the reference information for your claim that shingles numbers are not increasing? As to any claims that you make here, you in your own one sided hypocrisy will need to follow your own rules and make a clear and unambiguous hypothesis and to concisely support it. That, for ANY claim that you make!!!!

    You are as well aware of by the way, that the shingles vaccine is pushed on any senior that goes to any medical facility or clinic, and for anything at all.

  • Vacunas Autismo

    Not any preventive measures, only those consisting of injections of antigens both intendes and random or unintended. Logically, the immune reaction to random antigens are also random. It’s impoosible to predict which tissues of the subjects will end up being targetted … and once they are it’s for life. This is how the present epidemic of autoimmune disesase has been created.

  • Vacunas Autismo

    Nowhere the CDC says chicken pox is directly responsible for those 100 deaths. An rightly so, since there’s no mechanism by which chickenpox itself can kill,however. If the patients had previous life-threatening conditions, then you have to look into those conditions and their treatments, not blame chicken pox for their deaths.

  • Vacunas Autismo

    Studies contain data and the author’s interpretations of said data. The first are usually correct but the second can be wrong. If the data of a study support a conclussion different to the author’s then it’s perfectly acceptable to cite those studies only for the data they contain. Science works by analyzing data, not by accepting wrong conclussions.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you are again blatantly lying about what I have, and as to what I put forth.

    …but you can’t demonstrate that in a clear, concise and unambiguous way. All you can do is assert, assert, assert. i.e. “Here’s a dozen links and they absolutely prove what I really haven’t clearly stated and it’s up to you to find where that is said and in which links”. If that’ doesn’t sound like yourself then you need some time for introspection.

    how about if you follow the same rules that you are attempting to set for me?

    If I was making an argument that involved referencing a bunch of documents that you haven’t read I would. However mostly I’m referencing documents which were supplied by me and you claim that you have read en toto.

    I have more than sufficiently made ,and referenced my points

    Making up a thesis, not disclosing it in a clear and unambiguous way, not demonstrating that the outcomes are mandated by your thesis and not producing short in-text citations when your argument relies on multiple sources. Is not really what one would call a “sufficiently made point”.

    nothing is ever good enough for you

    Actually this is an obvious lie – I’ve been asking for the same thing from you for months. To make your argument that “nothing is ever good enough” you need to show a) That I have constantly changed what I’ve asked for and b) that you’ve met more than one.

    Since you can’t do either, you haven’t made your point. I can easily show where I say these things from months ago…would you like that?

  • Jonathan Graham

    What in your obviously twisted mind, does that mean?

    It’s a quote from Hamlet.

    And again you do not make the rules,

    …and you prove my point that all this becomes is you whining about how you don’t want to make your argument in what is a clear, obvious and unambiguous way. :-)

  • Sonja Henie

    I should never have even started a conversation with you, Lowell. I’m not going down your rabbit hole.

    As we’ve been over multiple times, the package insert is a legal document.

    The latest guidelines from the Immune Deficiency Foundation state that:

    “Close contacts of patients with compromised immunity should not receive live oral poliovirus vaccine because they might shed the virus and infect a patient with compromised immunity. Close contacts can receive other standard vaccines because viral shedding is unlikely and these pose little risk of infection to a subject with compromised immunity.”

    From my link.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Provide the reference information for your claim that shingles numbers are not increasing?

    Actually what I said was:

    If shingles cases in the elderly are increasing, they aren’t by very much or for very long.

    So there are two premises:
    i) It is at least unclear that shingles among the elderly (65+) is increasing in any way significant to varicella vaccination.
    ii) If there is, the suggested mechanism implies that this is self-limiting.

    So for i) we will start with the CDC which cites three studies Leung J, [5], Yih W [6[ and Jumaan AO [7]. Starting with [5] which concludes

    HZ incidence has been increasing from 1993-2006. We found no evidence to attribute the increase to the varicella vaccine program.

    [6] admits that overall this is increasing but tracks this well before 1995. When you look at the age breakdown for the elderly.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image%20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=1177968_1471-2458-5-68-2.jpg You can see that while there’s a spike at 2002 but in 2003 we are effectively back at 1998 levels. The study admits that a) it isn’t clear as mentioned in it’s conclusion

    If the observed increase is real, widespread vaccination of children is only one of several possible explanations.

    and b) acknowledges that varicella vaccine might be responsible for some of it but also admits that the effect is self-limiting if left untreated and even in the most extreme models

    …after the start of mass vaccination at an incidence of 51 percent over the pre-vaccination level and eventually falling below the initial incidence.

    [7] also supports my thesis by stating

    The incidence of HZ remained stable as the incidence of varicella decreased.

    Slightly more updated surveillance data at the CDC is here: http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/images/shingles-rates-1992-2010.gif and shows that in 2010 the US was – overall at 2005 levels which is a downward trend and that there is no age specific increase.

    As to any claims that you make here, you in your own one sided hypocrisy will need to follow your own rules and make a clear and unambiguous hypothesis and to concisely support it.

    Done and there is of course no hypocrisy at any point by me. I generally am discussing the documents provided by the original poster. There is no need for this cite/source model when we are discussing something you claim are intimately familiar with. This is further proved by the fact that I had no problem discussing how your first referenced study was irrelevant. However when you clearly have no regard for reading what you post and are careless with making your hypothesis. I lose interest quickly.

  • To be fair though, we did break natural immunity.

    Humanity looked at what natural immunity cost and decided it was too steep an asking price thus vaccines.

  • Sonja Henie

    Exactly! And humanity was doing this for a long time before vaccines came along.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not any preventive measures, only those consisting of injections of antigens

    Why? Natural immunity – as defined by the OP means getting sick right? Anything that keeps you from getting sick is interfering with this. i

    impoosible

    *chuckle*

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nowhere the CDC says chicken pox is directly responsible for those 100 deaths.

    CDC says:

    chickenpox caused about 4 million people to get sick, more than 10,500 hospitalizations, and about 100 to 150 deaths each year.

    They even cite a case study of a healthy teen getting sick and dying.

    since there’s no mechanism by which chickenpox itself can kill

    It’s an infection. Any infection can be deadly depending on location and severity. If you want to be coy and say that when someone has an infection that say closes off their airway they died of “suffocation” but that’s a pretty ridiculous double-standard. As if you suffocated someone the jury won’t blame the pillow.

  • Jonathan Graham

    All the more reason that Lowell needs to cite properly.

  • Sonja Henie

    Those seven deaths per year in ASSOCIATION with chickenpox vaccine does not mean that the vaccine caused the deaths, either. The anti-vaxers know this. They just keep hoping the lurkers don’t.

  • Vacunas Autismo

    I’m not the OP and my argument about the expected autoimmune effects of random antigens in vaccines remains valid.

  • Vacunas Autismo

    I know what the CDC says, therefore no direct cause of death. Regarding the mechanism, your “it’s an infection” argument means nothing as chickenpox does not affect any vital organs or airways. Infections come in all flavours, including subclinilcal, but you pretend all infections pose the same risks. Regarding the “healthy” teen that died, one signle case does not prove a point, as many factors could have contributed to that death including too often unnecessary medical treatments.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I know what the CDC says

    Not very well. It says “caused”. So I assume they mean “caused”.

    as chickenpox does not affect any vital organs or airways

    Untrue.

    Regarding the “healthy” teen that died, one signle case does not prove a point

    It does if you are countering someone who is arguing it is impossible for chickenpox to affect a vital system as it only takes one case to destroy a universal….and HEY you’re making a universal argument. QED.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m not the OP

    Irrelevant. However if you’re not using THEIR definition then you’re equivocating.

    my argument about the expected autoimmune effects of random antigens

    is lacking a useful degree of definition. Since you decided not to use the OP’s definition.

  • Stop your actual avoidance of the issues insanity of braking peoples replies into broken sentences, and just reply to the post directly. You can’t do it, and you know you can’t; and so just go ahead then and prove me wrong?

  • “equivocating” ????

    How can you turn a basic and straight forward reply into such a broken mess of copied and hacked from it broken sentences, out of context avoidance, and intentionally twisted deception? You need to leave the replying to those who are actually wanting to debate these issues with an honest and diligent response.

    Hired and paid off trolls and shills being sent in to distract and disrupt.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Stop your actual avoidance of the issues

    I’m not. I’m pointing out a problem with the way their argument was structured.

  • So you are refusing to answer my question, imagine that.

    Your level of broken and twisted insanity, and your level of deception is something that really needs to be studied by some well educated psychologists.

  • Jonathan Graham

    equivocating” ????

    Yes, in an argument when you use a word in two different senses it’s often referred to as ‘equivocation’.

    You need to leave the replying to those who are actually wanting to debate

    I just like to know what I’m talking about I know you are kind of ambivalent about this concept. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    So you are refusing to answer my question

    Only one sentence in your prior post ends in a question mark. Which is the question I answered. If you don’t understand the answer please ask a clarifying question. :-)

  • So all you can present with here is just another load of twisted BS, and with the use of hacked up from previous posts sentences. All in all you end up with a level of twisted and insane madness, that only you could continue to create.

  • You did NOT answer the question because you did not present with what that quote has to do with your claims and your said accusations regarding Nickleback You actually and in fact deliberately evaded the question.

    Lowell Hubbs Jonathan Graham • 13 hours ago

    [Meethinks thous dost protest too much.]

    What in your obviously twisted mind, does that mean?

  • Jonathan Graham

    You did NOT answer the question

    The question was answered. Are you saying you didn’t understand the answer? Seems like that’s what you want to say.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So all you can present with here is just another load of twisted BS

    Just logic and being clear and unambiguous. Something you have a problem with. :-)

  • Again, just stop your butchering of sentences within the existing replies, and reply to the post directly. You do not have the ability to reply to any post as it is and directly. Prove me wrong?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again

    What are you saying Lowell?

    just

    Just what Lowell?

    stop

    Stop What?

    your

    butchering

    I think you mean “enhancing”.

    of sentences

    within the

    existing replies

    and reply

    to the post

    directly.

    You do not have the ability to reply to any post as it is and directly.

    Proven wrong many times Lowell. Too bad your ability to admit you’re wrong is as broken as your reasoning.

    P

    r

    o

    v

    e

    m

    e

    w

    r

    o

    n

    g

    Already done but as you say You don’t make the rules.

  • You mean that you should not have started with me, and because all you have to stand on is a repeat of the false vaccine propaganda and which you know I have knowledge of, and in exposing it. From your link, LOL. Are you kidding.

    How about what it shows, from my links?

    Public Health Officials Know: Recently Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/public-health-officials-know-recently-vaccinated-individuals-spread-disease/

    To evaluate the risk verses benefit ratio of vaccines, you first need to actually understand the risks of vaccine injury, and as well the actual level of the ineffectiveness of vaccines. You have in reality no actual comprehension of either one, Sonja Henie.

    More Proof That the “Vaccine Pusher” Crowd Can’t Think Critically….(a well referenced article, regarding the said outbreaks in the vaccinated)
    http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2014/01/23/more-proof-that-the-vaccine-pusher-crowd-cant-think-critically/

    The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine.html

    Dr. Michael Elice M.D. – Media Promoting Medical Harm to Our Children
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/dr-michael-elice-m-d-media-promoting-medical-harm-to-our-children/

    Data Reveals Measles Outbreaks Have Nothing to Do With Non-Vaccination Trends
    http://politicalblindspot.com/data-reveals-measles-outbreaks-have-nothing-to-do-with-non-vaccination-trends/

    The 2013 Measles Outbreak: A Failing Vaccine, Not A Failure To Vaccinate
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/2013-measles-outbreak-failing-vaccine-not-failure-vaccinate1

    New York Measles Outbreak: 90% Vaccinated
    http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/new-york-measles-outbreak-90-vaccinated.html

    “The largest measles epidemic in North America in the last decade, occurred in 2011 in Quebec, Canada, where rates of 1- and 2-dose vaccine coverage among children 3 years of age were 95%-97% and 90%, respectively, with 3%-5% unvaccinated.”

    “Among adolescents, 22% had received 2 vaccine doses. Outbreak investigation showed this proportion to have been an underestimate; active case finding identified 130% more cases among 2-dose recipients.”

    Largest measles epidemic in North America in a decade–Quebec, Canada, 2011: contribution of susceptibility, serendipity, and superspreading events.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672

  • After all that time you wasted and with that twisted hack job of cut up and paste sentences, here is your response. OF COURSE THE CDC IS GOING TO DENY THE INCREASE IN CASES OF SHINGLES AFTER THE VARICELLA VACCINE WAS IN USE. They as well are NEVER going to admit to any negative aspect caused and produced by vaccines, and nor will they ever allow for any studies to be promoted other than those vetted and produced by their associated minions with like vested interests in vaccines..

    As well, you never showed in any way that the said first study was irrelevant. I as well followed up on that study explaining exactly why the study was not irrelevant, and as to its its findings being found quite obviously valid.

  • Coming from someone like you that can only quote the corruption and denial of the CDC and Pediatrics, what comprehension do you even have of actually citing information properly? Obviously none. All unbiased and independent information is entirely off limits, and off the table for you; disregarded, misrepresented, and lied about.

  • It’s also known as the four terms fallacy.

    One of the textbook fallacious examples is:

    P1: Stars are flaming balls of gas.

    P2: Miley Cryus is a star.

    C: Therefore, Miley Cryus is a flaming ball of gas.

    Flatulence and presentation aside – Miley Cryus is obviously not a flaming ball of gas because in the first premise we used ‘star’ to mean something like ‘distant sun’ and in the second, we used ‘star’ to mean something like ‘a famous person’ or ‘a celebrity’.

    So…what we ended up arguing here was this:

    P1: Distant suns (stars) are flaming balls of gas.

    P2: Miley Cyrus is a famous person (star)

    C: Therefore Miley Cryrus is a flaming ball of gas (distant sun a.k.a – a star)

  • Well, since it is KNOWN – you will have no problem providing the evidence that anyone here is being paid.

    Hop to.

  • All you have in that hacked up post is again another twisted load of lies, denial, and trash.

  • Sonja Henie

    Oh, bullshyt, Lowell! I could take apart all these links, but why bother?

    You’re a functional illiterate.

    I’ll try a few though.

    #1. St. Jude’s changed its recommendations last March (2015) I believe in part due to a kerfluffle here on Disqus about them. Here’s the latest: https://www.stjude.org/treatment/patient-resources/caregiver-resources/infection-tips/inpatient-visiting-guidelines.html

    Since you won’t/probably can’t read them, here’s a snippet:

    “For an immune suppressed child, the risk of infection from a live,
    attenuated virus vaccine is small compared to the risk of infection from exposure to someone with a vaccine-preventable disease. It is still recommended for your immune suppressed child:

    To avoid contact with a person who has a rash after recently receiving the chickenpox (varicella) vaccine.

    To avoid contact with a person who has received a intranasal flu vaccine within one week. This applies only if your child is severely immune suppressed such as in the hospital after a recent bone marrow transplantThere is no similar risk with the inactivated, injectable flu vaccine.

    If a household contact (infant) has recently received rotavirus
    vaccination, all family members should wash hands thoroughly and
    frequently after contact with the vaccinated infant, especially when
    changing diapers.

    Household contacts not receive the Oral Polio Vaccine. Note that the oral polio vaccine is not used in the United States”

    #2: I’m not even going to get into the pertussis issue. But these nutjob’s recommendation to prevent pertussis by breastfeeding is bunk. Here’s a link http://thescientificparent.org/passive-immunity-101-will-breast-milk-protect-my-baby-from-getting-sick/

    The last link doesn’t mean what you think it does. It doesn’t mean that 95-97% of vaccinated kids got measles; it means that 95-97% of the measles patients were vaccinated. Huge difference. It also says “Two-dose recipients had milder illness and a significantly lower risk of hospitalization than those who were unvaccinated or single-dose recipients.”

  • Jonathan Graham

    you never showed in any way that the said first study was irrelevant.

    which study, which hypothesis and which portion of the paper? Clear and unambiguous. Try it for once in your life. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yawn, well again that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. Even a liar can cite properly. You, on the other hand have some disability at work. :-)

  • The level of lies and obvious denial alone clearly give that away. Industry hired trolls that do nothing but distract and disrupt. And no, obviously they do not work for free.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope. I’ve proved many, many, many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many,many, many times. That I can respond without using my very helpful method of quoting. I can of course supply references to other exchanges if you like. Will you concede that you were lying if I do? My guess is “no”.

  • Talking sh$t and like you do, is not evidence for anything at all. Liars can site properly? I have a disability? Really? …”LOL”…and all in your twisted dreams …fool.

  • If you don’t even know which study you referred to in your previous post and in regard to the study I presented with that you aid was invalid, then why are you even replying with more of your twisted and likely as intended, attempted confusion? Any reader that has followed your posting here, can see how directly just how seriously sick and twisted you really are. In your hypocrisy again why as well are you not following your own directives as to the presentation of study evidence?

  • You are doing nothing but replying with only more of your own twisted insanity, one sided hypocrisy, and denial.

  • I understood it perfectly and entirely, there was NO answer.

  • See, I told you that your reply posting twisted insanity is nothing more than exactly that. I told you couldn’t do it, and you directly proved me to be exactly right.

  • So there we have it, St Judes knew of the increasing public controversy and as to the evidence of vaccine shedding that was obviously indicated in their visitation of cancer patients information. So they deleted the most obvious and damning information that was there, and simply rewrote the documents they had previously provided. Just like the CDC deleted their page on the issue of SV40 contamination of the previous polio vaccine which affected millions in the SV40 green monkey virus causation of cancer. And you actually think that deletion of public information makes the problem simply go away?

  • Right.

    Then you will be able to name one.

  • Name one, what?

    You
    Bill Pembry
    Thomas Johnson
    Al Mather
    Donald Monty

    ..and many more.

  • Just keep rolling with your obvious insanity, until you are banned. That works, for me.

  • Sonja Henie

    Actually, St. Jude’s revised their policies based on more current information b/c some dipwads on Disqus used their outdated policies as “proof” that vaccines “shed”.

    Do you really think St. Jude’s wants to endanger their patients? You have a loose screw if so.

  • Such a lying an entirely hypocritical reply. And you expect me to continue to waste my time with you, and this complete trash you continue to post with? Interrupt and distract, that is all you trolling shills can and will ever do.

  • What more current information? And conveniently they found that at the very same time that this controversy was known to have blown up in their face, right? Yes I think they would endanger patients, and if it was required to hide reality and to protect the pro-vaccine agenda. You have a screw lose if you can not determine and realize that obvious reality.

  • You are full of nothing but CRAP, so just go and structure that thought? My argument was obviously structured just fine.

  • Sonja Henie

    Get help now! I’m through.

  • Jonathan Graham

    “cite” is the word, not “site” and yeah your post which was your usual foaming at the mouth. Had little to do with your inability to cite properly.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So here we are Lowell where you try to find a way of impeding the conversation. You said something very vague about something I said and I asked you to clarify. You refuse. That’s hardly clear, unambiguous or honest.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, I pointed out a real problem. If you don’t understand it I’m happy to explain.

  • Mike Stevens

    CDC did say the deaths were caused by chickenpox. Learn to read please.

    Now, show us where it states that the VAERS deaths were caused by the vaccine, please?

  • Jonathan Graham

    If you understood it perfectly and entirely then you know the answer to your question – then by definition I have answered your question. However if you don’t consider your question answered. You have not completely or perfectly understood the answer. :-)

  • Sue

    Because you can’t you know it even your fellow buddys know it…And Lowell Hubbs certainly knows it.. and know what he is talking about,.. quit while you are ahead.. well not ahead.. but every post you are looking more stupid…

  • Jonathan Graham

    If you didn’t make it so fun it would happen less. I didn’t prove you to be exactly right because your assertion was that I can’t. Clearly I have. Ergo you are wrong. Maybe you meant to say something like “couldn’t resist this time”?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell my expectations for you are pretty low. I barely expect you to be able to form a cogent sentence. Mostly you just froth at the mouth.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Lowell perhaps your addled mind forgot that you started this thread by responding to my response to Vacunas Autismo. So clearly I’m not talking about your arguments – as poor as they are. (Go and click the little arrows and follow them up to the original post).

  • Well, see, I know I’m not getting paid.

    My motivation for posting is right on my profile.

    So why should I believe any of those other people are shills?

  • You pointed out, absolutely nothing, but how in denial and deliberately delusional you really are.Your two bit worthless, twisted, and half cocked arguments present with no evidence against anything at all here that has been stated.

    And you actually think that anything in the bent and twisted insanity that you have reply posted with here, has any counter effect and valid argument at all against the information put forth? Really? Like I said, you just keep on butchering comments into even fragmented sentences, and then replying in a form that only makes you look even more in denial and crazy.

    Your post: [Why? Natural immunity – as defined by the OP means getting sick right? Anything that keeps you from getting sick is interfering with this. i

    impoosible

    *chuckle*]

  • The answer to the question is not simply stating … it’s a quote from Hamlet.

    Go ahead and explain the significance of your previous and falsely accusing comment? Here is a hint, I already know the answer. You did that deliberately and you know it. Go ahead and as well explain who,and what you are connected to.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I pointed out the use of equivocation. Nice to see that you can’t deal with this simple fact. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    The answer to the question is not simply stating… it’s a quote from Hamlet.

    It is, if you understood it perfectly and completely. Which you said you did. Right? Or are you saying that you had an INcomplete understanding of the answer?

    I already know the answer.

    So you’re saying that I must have answered your question. Since you know the answer. Right?

  • What, another pro-vaccine trolling shill, and again likely with zero actual identity and only a character name? Imagine that? Vactruth is doing a good job with these articles on vaccine truth, quite obviously.

    Anyone with any honesty and common sense can see that many deaths detailed and listed in VAERS are caused by a vaccine. There is nothing more despicable than denying and lying about the obvious vaccine caused death of a child, and/or any individual listed in VAERS reporting.

  • And just because in your refuse to see and admit the actual risk of vaccines delusional mind, you say so? So you think that it is fun and funny to deny the truth about vaccines, and to attack those who who have the courage to put forth that obvious truth? You are despicable.

  • I said i know the answer, and which you are refusing to admit to that answer. You all to obviously did not answer the question, and so just admit it that you did not.

  • The term equivocation has nothing to do with the replies you received. Only in your own twisted mind do you come up with such ridiculous counter reply arguments. .

  • Jonathan Graham

    I don’t refuse to see, I simply require a clear and unambiguous argument and statistically strong evidence which clearly and directly support it. I have a higher standard of evidence than you do. Sorry.

    As for what I find funny about you? It’s how nuts you get over a little clarity in text. And attacks? That is entirely a product of your addled head.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sure did. Vacunas wanted to use a definition different than the OP. Again, sorry that you can’t read.

  • Really? And who do you think is going to actually believe that? Any reader looking for the actual vaccine truth, is going to see the truth in my replies, and entirely reject yours. Your replies are actually noting but a diversion and distraction from the evidence of the truth. Use your head, and just face it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Either you understood what I meant by my answer or you didn’t. If the former then I answered the question. If you are saying you DIDN’T understand you are in contradiction because you said:

    I understood it perfectly and entirely;

    So clearly, by your own logic I answered your question

  • Again, i never said I did not understand. I understand perfectly, and i as well clearly know and understand that you did not answer the question. So stop playing again your sick avoidance games, and answer the question directly.

  • Jonathan Graham

    And who do you think is going to actually believe that?

    Believe what? That I barely expect you to make a cogent sentence. No idea. People don’t have to believe the truth.

  • Obviously no ones head is more “ADDLED” than your own. And in your obvious hypocrisy, when are you going to provide an actual simply clear and unambiguous argument of your own, and as to yourself? I have more than provided that here and you simply refuse to admit it.

  • I can see clearly who actually needs the help. Thanks for playing. You simply refuse to face and accept any form of actual vaccine truth and reality.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You understood what I meant? Then that is well within the definition of answering your question. :-) So as soon as you admit that. We can move on. Otherwise I can show people how you will fixate on this one point for a good twenty posts. :-)

    Yep, you’re totally my slave Lowell.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Obviously no ones head is more “ADDLED”

    Putting something in quotes usually means the opposite of it’s literal interpretation. Just sayin’

    An actual simply clear and unambiguous argument of your own

    I’ve already provided one for my ideas about Zoster. If you didn’t understand something then please let me know – be specific and clear in your questions. Your last question about that wasn’t.

  • I am not impeding anything, you are. That reply again amounts to nothing but mindless and irrelevant nonsense, and you again failed to respond to the actual reply that I made.

  • Oh so putting any word in quotation marks now means the opposite of its literal interpretation. Wow, that conclusion couldn’t have come from anything but the twisted insanity of a pro-vaccine trolling shill, textbook.

    I have already responded directly to any claims that you have made on this article. I obviously understand it all quite well, and if you have any additional counter argument as to so called Zoster, then you better outline it directly right here. That, instead of again only falsely alluding to that you have had one that has not already been shot down..

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yep, I asked you to clarify and you refused. That impedes the discussion of that topic. Please consult a dictionary.

  • Mike Stevens

    Another antivax propaganda troll who can’t understand. ….Why not Lowell? Has all that alcohol impaired your ability to read words?

    “A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.”

  • I know what that answer is, and that you to this point have not provided that answer,.and or admitted to. I am telling you to simply admit to that answer. You refuse to, and even after your previous statements.

    I am not your slave and never will be. Just what kind of an entirely beyond sick comment, was that?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh so putting any word in quotation marks now means the opposite of its literal interpretation

    Yes that’s a very common interpretation. There’s a whole blog about it: http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/ have fun bringing yourself into the 1990’s.

    As far as Zoster goes, you’re still blocking the discussion by refusing to answer my question.

  • Believe your false claims and accusations; like the ones you again just made. All the readers have to do is scroll up a bit.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I know what that answer is

    Either you knew what I meant or you didn’t. You said you understood what I meant perfectly. Hence your question was answered by any reasonable definition of the phrase.

    I am not your slave and never will be.

    Well I’ve got you talking about one question forever. Controlling you like this is trivial.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sadly nothing above demonstrates more than my expectations for you are low. Which is what I said. QED.

  • Really, what alcohol? Obviously i am far more cognitively understanding than you are.

    I understand entirely and completely what that paragraph states. However only a complete fool would determine that nothing can be found in VAERS that is actually damning information as to vaccine injury and vaccine caused death. There is no existing proof ever of vaccine injury and resulting vaccine caused death, is what that paragraph states in regard to VAERS. As a fact, there is more than enough proof of thousands of vaccine injuries, and hundreds of resulting deaths.

    So what is your level of vested interests in vaccines, that you need to make this kind of denial? Go ahead and list any conflicts of existing conflicts of interest, so called, Mike Stevens?

    “They claim the vaccines are safe, but physicians are indoctrinated to disbelieve claims of harm and are not trained to recognize nor required to report any adverse reactions. From 90% to 99% of the adverse reactions reported to doctors are never reported by those doctors to the government’s extremely lax Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, known as the VAERS.”—Dr Rimland Ph.D.

    “Former FDA Commissioner David Kessler estimated in a 1993 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association that fewer than 1 percent of all doctors report injuries and deaths following the administration of prescription drugs. This estimate may be even lower for vaccines. In one survey that our organization conducted in New York in 1994, only 1 doctor in 40 reported to VAERS.”–Barbara Loe Fisher

  • Just answer the question and stop repeatedly and endlessly evading it? What was the significance of your comment regarding, Nickleback? What does the band Nickleback have to do with any of the vaccine issues? You are not controlling anything. If any one thing has you identified, your answer will provide all I need. Just answer the question directly.

  • Jonathan Graham Lowell Hubbs • 4 hours ago

    Lowell my expectations for you are pretty low. I barely expect you to be able to form a cogent sentence. Mostly you just froth at the mouth.

    ———–

    And in your delusional mind you actually think this is what you are doing? And could you actually be any more hypocritical and in making a bigger and more obvious fool of yourself here, so called Jonathan Graham?

    Full Definition of cogent

    1: having power to compel or constrain

    2 a : appealing forcibly to the mind or reason : convincing

    b : pertinent, relevant

    ————–

    And in view of your replies and verses mine, who is actually providing the cognitively coherent and responsible replies here? It is obviously me, and quite obviously, NOT you.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Really, what alcohol?”

    Come, come Lowell. Do you really want everyone to see what you are really like? How come you have 4 arrests for DUI?
    http://vaccineconspiracytheorist.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/lowell-hubbs-self-medicating-criminal.html

  • Proponent

    Just relaxing on a Friday night/early morning Saturday, Mike?

    Going for the low-hanging fruit, are you? ;)

  • Jonathan Graham

    you actually think this is what you are doing?Expecting very little from you cognitively speaking? Yes. That is blatantly obvious. If I was expecting more than you usual chock full o’nuttiness I’m sure this would be frustrating. Instead you are mildly amusing.

    You clearly have no argument for the opposite case – that I’m somehow expecting great things mentally from you – ergo the evidence supports me.

  • That was over 10 years ago and has nothing to do with today. Does anything at all in the BS filled blog page have anything to do with the vaccine issue, and of course it doesn’t. And you were so desperate to falsely discredit me that you risked getting banned here. Lets just see what happens with that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Just answer the question and stop repeatedly and endlessly evading it?

    I’m not evading it – since as you’ve stated I’ve already answered it because you PERFECTLY understood what I meant by my answer. If you did NOT perfectly understand what I meant then say so and I will explain.

    Perhaps you should avoid saying that you understand things perfectly? Just sayin’

    Pro Tip: Your sentence above wasn’t a question so it didn’t need a question mark.

  • You are the low hanging fruit, rotted to the core. Do you have a real name and identity, or is being a coward simply going to be how you roll?

  • The only thing sad here is the evidence of large numbers of vaccine injured children, and your denial of it.

  • You are obviously not only insane, but as well beyond any form of being competent enough to form a sensible reply beyond a mindless realm of vaccine injury denial.

    Despite Doctor’s Order, School Bans Girl for Not Getting Chickenpox Vaccine
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/23/chickenpox-vaccine.aspx#!

    The chicken pox vaccine is just as stupid and causing just as much more harm than good done, than the just born infant prescribed, aluminum adjuvant containing Hepatitis B vaccine. Wake up and get honest about it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It would be sad, if by “evidence” you meant that you could make a clear, concise and unambiguous hypothesis and support it with clear, concise and unambiguous cites from evidence.

    Instead it’s just piles of links, unsupported assertions and your meandering frothing at the mouth. Keep it up!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Clarify your question about my Zoster comments or concede that they were Zoster were clear and concise. Otherwise I’m not interested in engaging with you on some other random thing where you will violate the social contract in the same way.

  • You obviously do not even have a guestion put up here.

    A blog of unnecessary quotation marks, and really what does that have to do with the vaccines issue and this reply posting section? The right answer, is obviously absolutely nothing.

    Distort, dishonesty, distract from, evade, impede, deflect, intellectual dishonesty, and cognitive dissonance; is that is all you can do and provide here?

  • First you do not have any social contract, much more that you have abided by yourself, and in your one sided hypocritical dishonesty.

    You do not have any specific question on the table that involves your so called Zoster comments. The old switch and bait tactic, while you actually have nothing. What else is new as to your sick tactics?

  • Again, I have already done that. it is you that has not. What is it that you additionally want me to specifically refute? The chicken pox vaccine is just as worthless and for profit with absolutely no liability existing stupid as the Hep B vaccine for just born infants. Face it.

  • Like the devil, there is no truth in you! Just more and more lies and twisted deception.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s simple logic. Either you did perfectly understand what I meant or you did not. Whining about ‘lies’ doesn’t stop logic from being true. Sorry.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Everyone has a social contract. That’s why it’s called the social contract. Like I said you have nothing to offer when you violate it whenever you feel like it. We can talk about fingernail clippings or whatever. It’s really all the same if you’re going to refuse to clarify whenever you feel like you’re losing.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Unless you can demonstrate that what you have done is AS CLEAR, CONCISE AND UNAMBIGUOUS as the format I’ve asked for then your point is unmade.

    Oh you can assert that you’ve made your point but ten lines of python code could do that — and call me insane too. I wonder if I could make a script that most people couldn’t consider more or less intelligent than you. That would be kind of interesting. antiVacBot.py

  • Most psychologists I am sure would determine that reply of yours to be evidence of insanity and a degenerative mental condition, but just keep on reply posting your in complete in denial madness, as you will.

  • Unless …YOU …can demonstrate? What have you demonstrated here? You have provided nothing at all but more mindless and disconnected insanity, and a well a bad case of intellectual dishonesty?

    This site can’t be reached
    antivacbot.py’s server DNS address could not be found.

  • William Pembry

    Lol

  • Jonathan Graham

    I really can’t speak for psychologists but your fabricating criteria to help deal with your cognitive dissonance is interesting.

  • You are nothing but beyond delusional. Shove your so called and insane and deflecting social contract up your back side. Debate these issues honestly or leave. The only person who is is unable to actually clarify, is you. Start providing a basis for an actual debate on the vaccine issue.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Unless you can show the format I’ve asked for which you refuse to use. Is less clear, concise and unambiguous than what you have done. Then you are implicitly admitting that what you did was inferior – in these criteria – to what I’ve asked for.

    antivacbot.py’s server DNS address could not be found.

    Anyone want to volunteer to explain this to Lowell?

  • So when are you going to actually answer the question? In your continued mindless insanity you continue to flounder and sputter nothing but complete and utter nonsense.

  • By the way, your reply just described yourself perfectly. And you actually think that anyone would ever take you seriously. How beyond twisted and mindless can your replies actually get?

  • you …LOL. chock full o’nuttiness… (you are so called Jonathan Graham, actually a complete lunatic). In your hypocrisy, have you ever looked in the mirror and realized that you are exactly what you described?

  • Keep your posts on topic.

  • William Pembry

    I’m sensing someone on this thread is torn between their secret love for Nickleback and an intense hatred of the vaccines that created them.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I get that you don’t like being held accountable. For the record I’m actually being very honest and transparent – if you don’t think so please point out a clear an specific place where I wasn’t. Again, if as you’ve said you can refuse to clarify any time you like then there is equal payoff in discussing what we are discussing right now to anything else.

  • Jonathan Graham

    If you mean, when am I going to clarify? When you admit that you didn’t understand what I meant. If you did then I have answered the question. Unless you can come up with an argument (which is different than an assertion FYI) that when you understand perfectly what I mean then I have communicated to you my meaning. Isn’t the same as answering your question. I await your long list of assertions and foaming at the mouth.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, categorically false. Even in the “piles of links”. Objectively I’ve provided very few. Thanks for being wrong again.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I think we’re reaching the bottom of your dissonance avoidance barrel if all you have is “I know you are but what am I”.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes. This is the paradox of the vaccination origin theory of Nickleback.

  • Mike Stevens

    They are.
    The topic is chickenpox vaccine, remember?

  • kfunk937

    Too funny: I clicked on antivacbot.py and all that came up was robotic vacuums.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Anyone with any honesty and common sense can see that many deaths detailed and listed in VAERS are caused by a vaccine.”

    Not true, Lowell. The opposite usually applies, and when analysed, almost all of these “deaths” appear to be coincidental (or imaginary) events.

    “A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.”

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s funny that disqus makes that clickable. .py is the file extension for a program written in python (which is something I write a lot of code in). It was an example of what I would call a program which pretended to be Lowell.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You obviously do not even have a guestion put up here.

    Yawn…you said:

    you never showed in any way that the said first study was irrelevant.

    I said:

    which study, which hypothesis and which portion of the paper? Clear and unambiguous. Try it for once in your life. :-)

    You did not provide this information. Ergo you failed.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ll assume Vaccinado (not his actual nick but this one reminds me of Shark-nado) has figured that out. The case study the CDC links to was varicella pneumonitis.

    This guy was interesting in that his/her assumption was that “often mild” is synonymous with “harmless”. This is the error that the vaccine critical folk accuse us of when they think we mean “harmless” when we say vaccines are safe.

  • Proponent

    “The Incredible Hulk Vaccine Side Effect: Or, Understanding VAERS”

    … …

    DISCLAIMER: Please note that VAERS staff follow-up on all serious and other selected adverse event reports to obtain additional medical, laboratory, and/or autopsy records to help understand the concern raised. However, in general coding terms in VAERS do not change based on the information received during the follow-up process. VAERS data should be used with caution as numbers and conditions do not reflect data collected during follow-up. Note that the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality.”

    I have read and understand the preceding statement. Click here to proceed to VAERS database

    The tribe.. has spoken. The decision is final … grab your torch … you must now leave the island immediately.

  • Proponent

    TL;DR.. Danchi.

    This wall of text might only interest The Donald.. and that’s about it.

    Maybe work on some sort of Cliffsnotes for your posts or sumthin’?

    Just a suggestion.

    Helping others.. it’s … what I do. :)

  • Proponent

    “Using the MEDAlerts search engine..”

    … will bypass the following that is on the actual VAERS website itself:

    DISCLAIMER: Please note that VAERS staff follow-up on all serious and other selected adverse event reports to obtain additional medical, laboratory, and/or autopsy records to help understand the concern raised. However, in general coding terms in VAERS do not change based on the information received during the follow-up process. VAERS data should be used with caution as numbers and conditions do not reflect data collected during follow-up. Note that the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality.”

    I have read and understand the preceding statement. Click here to proceed to VAERS database

  • guest

    Stalking Troll Alert along with the troll train in tow.

  • Only you are leaving, coward using only a character name. There exists more than one tribe, and there is clearly another tribe that is as well speaking. The parents of vaccine injured children and those have have fully researched from independent and unbiased sources the truth about vaccines. Not only the truth, but as well as to the real scientific studies that show directly what vaccines have actually done. You trolling shill people are entirely anti-science, and just so you know.

    And just who is the sole provider of that ridiculous and misleading information? None other than the CDC and FDA, the same people that have everything to lose if the real vaccine truth were to be known and on a large public scale.

    Hear This Well Parents Speak Out
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCrfK5rP_B6huriP1hLApw/videos

    The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a United States program for vaccine safety, co-managed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). VAERS is a postmarketing surveillance program, collecting information about adverse events (possible side effects) that occur after administration of vaccines.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System

  • What is it as to the stated first study on the list that was put in front of you; that you fail to comprehend? You failed and because you are only evading the provided of a direct refute of the study, and in which obviously you can not do so. So instead you attempt to create only more false confusion. If you go back to the original post you can see exactly what you need to reply to, and yet you continue to find every false excuse in the book to evade any actual and direct reply to that information.

  • VAERS has never admitting to ANY vaccine caused deaths ever, and even though that was obviously the case and outcome. VAERS is run by the CDC and FDA, and of course they have everything to lose in the admission of any validated evidence as to any harm done by vaccines of any kind.

  • These “deaths” appear to be coincidental (or imaginary) events???? And no vaccine has caused anything ever, right? Everything is always only a coincidence, What do they have to lose in the admission of the truth? They obviously lose it all, that’s what; and they know it. Then add a known only 1 to 10% reporting factor as to actually reportable cases in regard to VAERS.

    And why is VAERS actual reporting of adverse reactions to vaccines, so low in number; because doctors are to brainwashed by their big pharma directed schooling to ever consider that what exists right in front of them is an adverse reaction caused by vaccines. Everything is considered as only a coincidence, and that it has to be something else; and no matter how many times they see exactly the very same thing taking place. What could possibly be any more evil than the denial of vaccine injury to an infant, or child?

  • Proponent

    Interesting debating tactic, Lowell.

    First you criticize the CDC and the FDA.. “which use VAERS information to ensure the safest strategies of vaccine use and to further reduce the rare risks associated with vaccines.”

    And then.. cite VAERS to substantiate.. well, something in your comment?

    Two words.. yuuuuuge fail.

  • My tactics are perfectly fine and substantiate exactly what I said.

    The CDC and FDA in regard to VAERS are looking for absolutely nothing, as a fact. The ongoing Gardasil harm done issue is a perfect example of that said outcome.

    Gardasil-The Flagship Example of the Failure of Vaccine Authorities to Regulate and Assure Vaccine Safety

    “HPV Vaccine Has Done This to My Child” “I am not a coincidence”

    http://www.vacfacts.info/gardasil-the-flagship-example-of-the-failure-of-vaccine-authorities-to-regulate-and-assure-vaccine-safety.html

    Gardasil-The Real Truth
    http://www.vacfacts.info/gardasil—the-real-truth.html

    Obviously you could not even make a direct reply to my comments. So that for you is clearly a complete fail. Deny it all you want.

  • There is no person here that specializes in continued cognitive dissonance, more than you. And as well intellectual dishonesty. You can in your continued and persistent denial, deny that again all you want.

  • Proponent

    Another interesting tactic.. link to *your own website* … to back up your nonsensical claims and/or assertions.

    Yep.. once again … yuuuuge fail.

  • Piles of reference links that you can not, and that you have refused to directly respond to, even once. When you can not and refuse to debate the vaccine issues in any diligence and honesty, and with your said complete avoidance and evasion; there is no way for you to tell any person or form of opposition that they are wrong. You are as well, and all to obviously, anti-science. Just face it.

  • Just again more mindless, and entirely twisted false excuses for not directly answering my question. So just get to doing that, now. What was the significance of the Nickleback comparison and the related statement that you made to me? 123…you will refuse to answer the question, again. Just watch.

  • I have been repeatedly pointing that out all along. And even amongst all of your obvious reply posting insanity, everything has been clarified perfectly. You can deny that all you want.

  • Why do you continue to refuse to actually debate the vaccine issues here on this article? Instead you present with nothing more than your twisted form of evasion from, and as to any honest debate at all as the the relevant vaccine issues

    And your point, is? Go ahead and explain it, what is the significance of this dead link?

    [This site can’t be reached
    antivacbot.py’s server DNS address could not be found.]

  • Unless you can demonstrate? When you refuse even scientific studies that make the relevant point as to actual vaccine reality, including the varicella vaccine, then you are not actually interested in any form of knowledge regarding any form of real vaccine truth. When instead of actually addressing those studies you instead go after and personally attack me with a demand for a personal and precise explanation and interpretation of those studies, and which you can as well read for yourself, then you are NOT actually interested here in debating any form of the vaccine truth. All you are interested in is the complete evasion of that truth. You are as well anti-science, just admit it.

  • There is no social contract, and no matter how much in your arrogance that you claim to one that only you have in your twisted mind, devised. That is known as and called, evasion tactics. Just address those studies and honestly debate the actual vaccine issues; you refuse to.

  • But you have no logic at all going on here. Just answer the question instead of posting 40 more reply posts in evading the question. You already admitted to that you are enjoying doing that. Such a simple and easy question. You have no false excuses left, but inevitably we will see here the same false excuses, and likely a dozen more.

  • You failed to even as much as review and respond to the information. That in itself is an obvious FAIL. That website page contains information and reference material from multiple good sources. My point was actually well taken.

  • I guess it doesn’t interest you because reading comprehension isn’t your forte’. No doubt that’s the reason you see it as a wall.

  • By the way, you need to respond to my reply posts directly below where they are made, and at the time they are made. Do not post and continue with 15 or more replies full of twisted and false excuses that are full of personally attacking evasion and false blame, and that as to why you can not, and did not in any honesty reply to the original post that I made.

  • Jonathan Graham

    But you have no logic at all going on here.

    Sadly your opinion is irrelevant. Anything that can be reduced to symbolic form is following the rules of logic.

    just answer the question

    If you can admit that you didn’t understand what I meant then I’d be happy to. If you can’t admit that then you need to ask me to “re-answer” the question. Either is fine, I’ll wait. :-)

    You already admitted to that you are enjoying doing that.

    Not really. I’ve said I find your whole inability to progress the conversation amusing. I find the way you freak out over adding clarifying blockquotes to your posts fun.

    Such a simple and easy question.

    Which has already been answered – as you say you don’t make the rules here and you violate the social contract whenever you feel like it. You have produced an interesting situation. Normally when talking to a human being who became fixated on something like this I’d just go ahead and re-answer the question. However all you do in that case is get stuck on another point. Creating a situation where there is no more value in either action. So welcome to the world you created.

  • Jonathan Graham

    There is no social contract,

    Yes, with you there isn’t – with just about everyone else there is – and that creates an interesting situation.

    That is known as and called

    Just address those studies

    I’ve already pointed out that I’m uninterested in something that isn’t in a clearer form. You refuse. Ergo you consider it far more valuable to keep the argument where it is, than to progress it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Unless you can demonstrate?

    Yes, you’re kind of stuck in a position where I’m asking for clarity and you are refusing. Which means that you would RATHER have a lack of clarity in your argument and be unable to make your point than to have more clairty.

    When you refuse even scientific studies

    I’m not refusing them I’m saying their place in your argument is unclear. You are saying, you prefer that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Why do you continue to refuse to actually debate

    I’m not really refusing I’m simply pointing out that in many cases I need clarification and you refuse. The only person I’m doing this with is you because you’re the only person refusing.

    Go ahead and explain it, what is the significance of this dead link?

    Anything that ends with .py is generally a python script – I mentioned that the essence of your posting style could be replaced with a trivial script that would just dump links, call people insane and otherwise bully them. A script that acts in this way is often called a “bot”. Hence antivacbot.py is what I would call a script that does this.

    It’s amazing how little thought you put into things.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry your response above doesn’t qualify as specific (since it makes no specific reference) nor is it clear since it doesn’t spell out what was lied about. You’re still being not clear and not specific. QED.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Piles of reference links that

    …are not an argument.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, the “I know you are but what am I” defense.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you never showed in any way that the said first study was irrelevant.

    Please clearly, in your next post state WHICH study, WHICH hypothesis of mine you’re referring to, and WHICH portion of that paper you think I’m supposed to be making “irrelevant” (and for bonus point IRRELEVANT to what?).

    If you can’t answer these in your next post here absolutely clearly and unambiguously. Then you are giving up a chance to progress the conversation. Ergo you like the situation of the conversation being stalled infinitely more than you like actually debating this.

  • Jonathan Graham

    English please.

  • The truth is that VAERS staff actually appointed by the corrupt and having everything to lose CDC and FDA are not actually looking for anything at all, and they never will. VAERS with a known only 1 to 10% reporting factor is actually a gold mine of information in establishing reality as to the obvious risk of vaccines. You are in complete denial.

    Gardasil-The Flagship Example of the Failure of Vaccine Authorities to Regulate and Assure Vaccine Safety
    http://www.vacfacts.info/gardasil-the-flagship-example-of-the-failure-of-vaccine-authorities-to-regulate-and-assure-vaccine-safety.html

  • So much for their vaccine derived herd immunity, and that they falsely claim as well protects infants, and those persons who susceptible and which can not be vaccinated or the vaccines will not work for them. Just like the known baboon study in regard to the pertussis vaccine, they the shills, ignore the significance of that study as well. Such study determinations should be done in regard to all vaccines.

  • If that so called (large) wall of information has still no significance to you, then you obviously were not looking for the vaccine truth to begin with.

  • I put this information up earlier, and such people as so called and obvious vaccine trolling shill Jonathan Graham, simply continue to evade any form of an honest response to that information and the existing studies. Being the so called pro-vaccine purveyors of the science that they falsely claim to be, wouldn’t you think that kind of information should be of directly of interest to them, and instead of obviously and intentionally evading it all?

    The entire point to this post is to show the level of more harm than good being done by vaccines. That in regard to adverse effects on the over-all health of human beings, as a result of injected toxic, and known contaminated vaccines.

    And on how many more levels and ways do we yet need to realize that toxic and known contaminated injected vaccines clearly cause more harm than good to human health?

    So conveniently now the findings in this below study are considered ONLY applicable to the creation of another big pharma vaccine. The modern big pharma based medical model; always as for profit crazy and futile as a monkey chasing its own tail.

    Brain Cancer Risk May Be Reduced in Those With History of Chicken Pox

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

    In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.]

    http://neurosciencenews.com/glioma-brain-cancer-chicken-pox-3942/

    Short Report
    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery
    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Measles and Mumps Protect Against Heart Attack and Stroke
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/measles-and-mumps-protect-against-heart-attack-and-stroke/

    Studies show: Natural Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox & Influenza viruses protect against cancer
    http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2015/03/10/studies-show-natural-mumps-measles-chicken-pox-influenza-viruses-protect-against-cancer/

    Curr Top Microbiol Immunol. 2009; 330: 213–241.
    Measles virus for cancer therapy
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926122/

    Viera Scheibner was actually, right.
    Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)

    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at:http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Protective Effect of Childhood Measles Against Degenerative Diseases in Later Life

    The above study indicates that a lack of rash in measles is associated with an increased incidence of autoimmune and degenerative diseases in later life. As the rash is the means through which the toxin is expelled from the body, its absence leads to the measles virus remaining in the body. The widespread use of vaccination has led to the appearance of “atypical measles” and “mild measles” where no rash develops. This can expose children to diseases in later life.

    Read more:

    http://www.vaccines.me/articles/afcjt-protective-effect-of-childhood-measles-against-degenerative-diseases-in-later-life.cfm

    Measles Virus Infection Without Rash In Childhood Is Related To Disease In Adult Life.
    The Lancet, January 5 1985

    Abstract

    The presence of measles specific antibodies is usually taken as evidence of typical measles in the past; in the present study it was regarded as evidence of infection with measles virus, but not necessarily of the common disease accompanied by a typical rash. The association between a negative history of measles in childhood and certain diseases later in life was investigated by a historical prospective method, based on school health records combined with self-reporting in adulthood, and tests for specific IgG measles antibody. There was evidence of association between a negative history of measles, exposure in early life (possibly injection of immune serum globulin after exposure), and development of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours. It is suggested that the presence of measles virus specific antibodies at the time of acute infection interferes with development of specific cytolytic reactions, and enables intracellular measles virus to survive the acute infection. If this hypothesis is verified, use of immune serum globulin after measles exposure has to be reconsidered.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2885%2990961-4/abstract

    Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    A recent study found that women vaccinated with the measles vaccine pass on far less immunity to their offspring than women who are not vaccinated. Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/503025.stm

    Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage

    Conclusions. Children of mothers vaccinated against measles and, possibly, rubella have lower concentrations of maternal antibodies and lose protection by maternal antibodies at an earlier age than children of mothers in communities that oppose vaccination. This increases the risk of disease transmission in highly vaccinated populations.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

    The truth about the measles, natural immunity, and the vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-truth-about-the-measles-natural-immunity-and-the-vaccine.html

    Vaccines Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    https://liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    Vaccine. 2008 Mar 25;26(14):1725-30. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2008.01.041. Epub 2008 Feb 13.
    Kinetics of asthma- and allergy-associated immune response gene expression in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from vaccinated infants after in vitro re-stimulation with vaccine antigen.

    Lahdenperä AI1, Nilsson LJ, Regnström K.

    Abstract

    The global expression of immune response genes in infants after vaccination and their role in asthma and allergy is not clearly understood. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study the involved cellular responses, since the expression of thousands of genes can be assessed simultaneously. Here, array technology was used to assess the expression kinetics of immune response genes with association to asthma and allergy in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) of five healthy infants after vaccination with Infanrix-Polio+Hib. At 12h after in vitro re-stimulation of the PBMC with pertussis toxin (PT) antigen, 14 immune response pathways, 33 allergy-related and 66 asthma-related genes were found activated.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336961

    What’s Really in the DTaP Vaccine?
    https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/whats-really-in-the-dtap/

    Proof That Vaccinations Cause Learning Disabilities & Autism
    http://www.vaclib.org/basic/proofaut.htm

    And on how many more levels and ways do we yet need to realize that toxic and known contaminated injected vaccines clearly cause more harm than good to human health; and that there needs to be determined a better way, and as existing there is and always has been a better way?

    A Basic Understanding of Naturopathic Health Care
    http://www.vacfacts.info/a-basic-understanding-of-naturopathic-health-care.html

  • Only you can correct the inadequacy of your selective reading comprehension skills. What I presented with here in this above reply was as well obviously in easily understood, English.

  • Just stop all of your evasion tactics and reply to and/or refute directly each study that you find in this list. You have had that in front of you before. As well admit or deny the significance of what each study shows in regard to the potential outcome of vaccines, and as to the scenario of over-all doing with vaccines far more harm than good.

  • However, that as you know is not what this is all about. This is about conducting a vaccine informational debate, fact for fact and study for study. You can’t do it. You refuse to.

  • What, and just because in your hypocritical level of lying denial, you say so? In truth, how much more twisted and in denial can a person like you actually get?

    The Official Definition of a Vaccine Shill:

    As you may know, there is an ongoing intense public debate around the issue of Mandatory Vaccination. This debate has spilled over into social media forums, such as Twitter and Facebook, with passionate debate on both sides. However, the Pro-Forced Vaccine element has attempted to marginalize the Vaccine Choice supporters with the completely made up term “Anti-Vax”. They frequently link users to a site where this definition is articulated.

    In an attempt to be balanced, I have created the term “Vax Shill” (#vaxshill) and will articulate it here. These are the characteristics and behaviors of those who would force vaccination upon you, which include, but are not limited to:

    1. Sticks to a pre-defined and rehearsed script, and ignores anything outside their narrative. Often they appear out of nowhere, interrupting conversations with others.

    2. Flagrant and repetitive use of buzzwords like pseudoscience, debunked, quack doctor, crank, grifter, caveman, knuckle dragger, Neanderthal, disease spreader, denier, tin foil hat, Dunning Kruger, Google University, problematic, simply science, vaccines work, shill gambit, etc., etc., etc.

    3. They are Pro-GMO’s, Pro-Vax, Pro-Fluoride in water, Statins, and calls all else quackery. Constantly attacks anyone who says otherwise.

    4. Sticks to only one source, non-scientific, or relies solely on epidemiological data that shares their own bias.

    5. Thinks Paul Offit is not a pile of shit liar, pays zero attention to any conflicts of interest, but doesn’t hold the same for those with opposing views. Speaking of Offit, he will agree to debate, and sets his own terms. Chickens out at last minute, and compares vaccines to gravity.

    6. Anyone caught voicing an opinion is immediately labeled anti-something. Uses mass generalizations.

    7. Demands to be linked to only government or corporate sourced “studies”, considers all else fraud and quackery.

    8. Immediately brings up the name Wakefield, regardless of the merit of the argument, when discussing Autism.

    9. Plays false association games when presented with a bulletproof, airtight argument. Changes subject to avoid further discussion.

    10. Uses ad hominem attacks when given any data, referring to individual as “Dunning Kruger”. Claims you must be a doctor or scientist to opine on vaccines or their safety.

    11. And of course, insults anyone who disagrees, then accuses them of being impolite or rude. Makes some kind of emotional reason to justify their insults.

    12. Claims you have no right to share your personal vaccine harm accounts publicly. Always calls on you to prove it, then shrugs it off as anecdotal and inconsequential.

    13. Rejects religious freedom, gun ownership rights, and medical choice. Claims moral conscience is not a right to decline vaccination. Denies aborted fetal cells are in vaccines, until shown they are. Then admits to it.

    14. Believes toxic ingredients are not toxic when injected into the body.

    15. Compares vaccinations to seatbelts, traffic lanes, and driving laws. None of which are injected into the body.

    Please feel free to use this definition at your pleasure, along with our new hashtag… #vaxshill when you are unfortunate enough to run across these vaccine hounds, shills, and trolls. Happy Tweeting!

    https://passiveaggressiveraven.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/the-official-definition-of-a-vaccine-shill-vaxshill/

  • Scientific studies provide for a clear argument, and that which you simply refuse to face. Obviously you can not even read, as you ask me to read them for you and to present with a summary. That information outcome is obviously already there. As for your inability to read and comprehend information, and as well the content of study, and then to blame me your failure at comprehending any such study; is purely madness and denial at work, at its worst level.

  • It is all very clear, directly address that information and those studies. You refuse to.

  • The real bully, is actually you. 7 years f thought actually provides for some really good reply posts. Posts that you obviously evade any form of a directly reply to.

    Again, you need to respond to my reply posts directly below where they are made, and at the time they are made. Do not post and continue with 15 or more replies full of twisted and false excuses that are full of personally attacking evasion and false blame, and that as to why you can not, and did not in any honesty reply to the original post that I made.

  • The only one obviously stuck and in their in denial pro-vaccine agenda position, is you.

  • Do you think at this point that you could butcher and fragment any more partial sentences that have been reply posted? You are wasting everyone’s time here again, and with your own obvious in denial insanity.

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this). This is the fallacy of assuming that A caused B simply because A happened prior to B.
    http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

  • You might as well be talking right and straight from your far back sides sphincter muscle, for as much as that reply post was actually worth. Voted as the most disconnected and insane reply post ever made.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not really.

  • Billy Briggs

    You tell him there Mr Hubs and I persony don’t give a hoot ifn you like nickerback

  • Jonathan Graham

    Making a clear set of easy requirements for the discussion to progress is not really evasion in any sense of the word.

    So again you have given up a chance to progress the discussion probably because you enjoy this chit-chat better. Ironic, or it would be if anyone believed you are interested in making your point.

    and reply to and/or refute directly each study that you find in this list.

    Asked and answered. I’m not interested. A long list of studies is not an argument. Especially when you show very little concern for accuracy in which ones you select.

    Tell you what though, If you:

    a) In your next post choose a hypothesis and state it clearly in your next post.
    b) Select ONE and only ONE research paper which supports your hypothesis which you consider to be the MOST statistically strong.
    c) Admit that if I can refute or otherwise show the weaknesses of said paper you will agree that the BEST evidence for your hypothesis is weak.

    That is again, a clearer and more useful discussion. Which probably makes it impossible for you to comply with.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well that’s been your argument for the past two posts.

  • Jonathan Graham

    What, and just because … you say so?(Abuse deleted by me)

    No but because that’s what people tend to mean by “clear” and “specific” but as I mentioned you don’t really care about either of those things. If you did, you could have pointed out specifically – the exact word or phrase – where I am relying on a private definition and clearly pointed out how that differs from some generally recognized authority on words.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Scientific studies provide for a clear argument

    Thanks for agreeing with me. “provide for” – in English – means to “allow”. Something that “allows” something does not necessitate it’s existence. So again studies are not an argument. They help you make a specific kind of argument but they are not, in and of themselves an argument. You agree. Next point?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Asked an answered. Not interested in looking at a bunch of papers when you won’t give me clear and specific details as to what I’m supposed to be looking for. :-) Pay me my hourly rate and we’ll talk.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The real bully, is actually you.

    Sorry the evidence is pretty clear. Your posts are fully of verbal abuse and attempts to shame or degrade me for not obeying you. I can post a bunch of examples if you think that will help you recognize this pattern of antisocial behavior.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Non-sequitur. I’m asking you to be more clear, you are refusing (and being abusive).

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again I’ve been asking for more clarity and you are refusing. So if you are being rational then the conclusion should be that you prefer NOT progressing the discussion.

    I understand what post hoc ergo propter hoc means however if your claim is that something I have said is making this logical error than please post what the terms A and B are in this case. Use only direct quotes from me. That would be clear and specific – which is probably why you don’t do that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    More formalized form:

    i) When you ask someone a question and you understand what they mean by their response. Then your question is answered.
    ii) Lowell Hubbs asked a question of Jonathan Graham.
    iii) Lowell Hubbs received a response from Jonathan Graham.
    iv) Lowell Hubbs understands what was meant by the response.
    v) Ergo Lowell Hubbs’ question was answered by Jonathan Graham

    Which of these statements do you disagree with Lowell and why?

  • “Some generally recognized authority on words” – like the dictionary, for example?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Tell me of this…how do you say….”dictionary”.

  • Jonathan Graham

    See…you see it too.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Since when is it and should it required for me to personally explain the study,

    No you need to personally state how it supports your argument.

    That is certainly and obviously not how actual science and the applicable reference studies, work

    Actually creating an argument and following it up with cites and sources to support it and explaining how these support your opinion is EXACTLY how (a certain kind) of science works. For example lets pretend that somewhere in your head is a hypothesis. Again let’s bravely assume that this might be it.

    The entire point to this post is to show the level of more harm than good being done by vaccines.

    If your point is to argue A is more than B. You must provide values for A and B. You can supply references but you need to explain how those references make your point.

    For example your first two links are about varicella not the varicella vaccine (it’s also something of a weak correlation if you understand math, which you don’t.)

  • Proponent

    In case you didn’t look..

    Vaccine Truth | “How Rhode Island Parents Are Winning Back Their Rights to Vaccine Choice”

    Billy Briggs: “Gov got no say if my kids get cervical cancer or not Junior aint got a cervix any damm way”

  • Jonathan Graham

    Oh I figured he’s something of a nutter (or a parody account) but I was just commenting on his ability to see Lowell’s love for Nickleback.

  • Proponent

    Funny stuff all around from Billy.

    (Kind of leaning towards parody, meownself.)

  • See what, you very SICK man???? You can see your obvious sickness, just admit it???

    Humble and kind and until they cross the line beyond as to what is tolerable, and acceptable, and then all damned fricken hell needs to break lose, and it always will,

    Tim McGraw – Humble And Kind (Official Video)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awzNHuGqoMc

  • Can any human being even begin to imagine a higher level of in denial evil, than this??? What a seriously SICK man. As well how many different character names have you reply posted with now in the past year?

    As said before. Let me know when you can actually and directly reply to I the post I have made, and without in your obvious in denial insanity chopping it all up into the obvious major amount of in denial insanity that you have continued to do. Reply directly, and do not chop anything up in the reply post, and that is all you have to do. You can not do it, and you know that as a fact. Prove me wrong, once and for all reply post like a normal human being?

  • Jonathan Graham

    He sees the love you have for the Nickleback. But seriously Lowellllll I don’t see your endgame here. Does your vapid shouting ever work? Do some people say: “Oh, yes. Where reason failed you have convinced me through your bullying and foaming at the mouth?”

    Humble and kind and until they cross the line beyond as to what is tolerable, and acceptable, and then all damned fricken hell needs to break lose, and it always will,

    Drama queen.

    Tim McGraw – Humble And Kind (Official Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48rz8udZBmQ

  • Jonathan Graham

    Can any human being even begin to imagine a higher level of in denial evil, than this???

    Dude, I have to believe that you’re joking now. Seriously.

    Let me know when you can actually and directly reply to I the post I have made,

    So your jokes aside, if your point is to argue “A is more than B” then you need to provide values for A and B. Which you haven’t. So you fail at supporting your own hypothesis.

    Prove

    me

    wrong,

    once

    Dude I’ve replied many times without blockquoting. Need some reminders? I can link to them. The point is, it doesn’t matter. Whenever you feel like it, you block the conversation. In other words you have deliberately designed a situation where you can get out of having to debate your point.

  • Who is he? The person you refer to?

    You obviously have a SERIOUS mental illness issue. So, in your view to live life as a normal human being, requires you to be first, an idiot? Do you have any comprehension at all of this, and as to how sick and twisted your mind has to be, and really is? Real life and truth involves being a drama queen? Why has your level of mental illness and obvious in denial sickness, not yet been banned from vactruth?

  • This is only another example of your repeated tirades, and as to your increasing level of obvious in denial, insanity. Again, let me know when you can directly reply to my reply posts, and in commonly used sentences and paragraphs.

  • Sees what, your insanity and your obvious lies and rambling rants filled delusions? Hell is for an eternity; your foolish soul will never be able to handle it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Billy Briggs is the person to whom I am in reference making in my aforementioned posting.

    Do I conjecture that in ones traversing through this mortal coil requires an intelligence quotient of the cardinality of the set equal to the number of trigon verticies? Nay, say I. The sequential images with synchronized sound were a simple characterization of thine own self. It is selfsame with thine own royalty in the drama department.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again if your point is to argue “A is more than B” then you need to provide values for A and B. Otherwise you fail at supporting your own point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your love of Nickleback. It shines through.

  • Obviously that was already been provided here. Just admit that in your denial, that you REFUSE the information. There has never existed such a level of in denial sickness, as what obviously exists within your twisted mind.

  • So again what is the significance of the band, Nickleback? I myself do not even listen to it?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Nope. A is the total risk for vaccination and B is the total benefit for vaccination. Nowhere do you calculate those. QED.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I myself do not even listen to it?

    I think you have denial sickness and blame me your failure at comprehending any your own latent love for Nickleback; is purely madness and denial at work, at its worst level.

  • I have repeatedly calculated those risks, and with the real and actual scientific studies, and again right here as well on this article page. Quite obviously if you repeatedly refuse that information, that is YOUR problem, and not mine.

  • So in your mind, how funny is vaccine injury to you? You don’t care, right; and because you can simply continue deny that it ever happened. Everything is ONLY a coincidence, and no matter what. And why? Because there is absolutely zero existing legal liability. No other substance or product on earth has ever been allowed to have zero existing legal liability as to its sale and use.

    National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
    http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    I have repeatedly calculated those risks

    There is no sentence that says “total risk = ” or “total benefit = “. Let me know when you find it.

  • Spoken in the mode of true insanity. You have no place here replying on these articles. You are clearly and far beyond obviously, unfit.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s more like you’re being mocked.

  • Again what is your evidence for that I ever listen to, or have any interest in band Nickleback? And again I am asking you what is the significance as to anything at all here regarding the issue of the band, Nickleback?

  • Jonathan Graham

    All you can present with here is just another load of twisted BS. All in all you end up with a level of twisted and insane madness, that only you could continue to create.

  • Total risk = total benefit? Who actually said that? How beyond lunatic insane are you really? No evidence and no proof exists ever, right? Everything is only a coincidence, in regard to existing vaccine injuries.

    Hear This Well: Breaking the Silence on Vaccine Violence (263 videos, 375,166 views)
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

    http://hearthiswell.org/

  • I could care less what you think it is. What it actually is is the rendition of your own in denial insanity. Personal vendetta’s are not well presented with on these articles, and that clearly is not the place for it. You might as well admit that is what it involves. If you were a real man, you would bring it all to me face to face. Of course, you never have. Because of your obviously cowardly nature, that is obviously major fail on your part. Don’t be talking your BS here on and replying to these articles, once and for all bring it to me man to man, and face to face. You have been told that now for seven years.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Total risk = total benefit

    Isn’t what I wrote. Read it again. Move your lips if you have to.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I could care less what you think it is.

    No, I’m telling you what it is – not what I think it is.

    If you were a real man,

    Bullying.

  • And you can not even see in front of you, your obvious level of pointless and babbling insanity.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, there is no sentence that contains the terms “total risk = ” and “total benefit = “.

    So you have not demonstrated your point.

  • In your twisted and mentally ill hypocrisy, you will of course falsely claim to anything at all. It doesn’t even need to make any sense.

  • So you like that past huh? And you simply re-post it as it pertains to me, and even though it is obviously only applicable to you. Such high levels of existing insanity. Please go and get yourself some serious and qualified, psychiatric help,

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, it’s the truth. You were (and are still) being mocked.

  • Jonathan Graham

    And you actually think that anything in the bent and twisted insanity that you have reply posted with here, has any counter effect and valid argument at all against the information put forth? Really?

  • And what is the motive in your mind for that? You know and even in your insanity and madness, that it is a vendetta that is not even related to the vaccine issue. Just face it. You have no place here, and you need to be banned.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your replies are full of twisted and false excuses that are full of personally attacking evasion and false blame, and that as to why you can not, and did not in any honesty reply to the original post that I made.]

  • So provide a complete explanation of your said statement??? Include specifically its detailed application to the vaccine issue in regard to your so proven risk verses benefit ratio. You clearly deny the vaccine injury risks, and simply over-inflate the assumed correlation equals causation benefits. So just go ahead and admit to that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You have not provided, in any of your posts here. A sentence that contains the terms “total risk = ” and “total benefit = “. These are KEY to making your point. Until you do, you have failed to make it.

  • I actually have reply posted no sentence here at all ever, that has contained the terms “total risk = ” and “total benefit. So copy and paste the entire reply that was allegedly found and taken from? In your insanity you are now requiring me to support your put forth views? How beyond twisted is your mind? The evidence for that is existing right here, and now.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Speaking of parody – I’ve started responding to Lowell with snippets of his own replies to me. I’ve put a “]” at the end of those posts just so you know that I’m not foaming at the mouth like he-who-can-barely-form-sentences.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yawn. Ok Lowell I’m starting not to buy the crazy talk. It’s getting a little too convenient where you try and just blather to get out of a tight spot.

    See, I’m sure you realize that I’m not saying that you wrote a sentence that contains the terms like “total risk = ” and “total benefit = “. I’m saying you HAVEN’T but that you need to to make your point.

  • Proponent

    Been enjoying the e-show.

    (*goes back to noshing on freshly popped popcorn*)

    ‘Hmmm.. needs more butter..’

    (*takes a bite out of stick of butter.. sips some of his pop*)

  • I actually form better sentences and form better direct responses than you ever will. Just face it. All you have existing is continually cut up wall posts of obvious hatred, intellectual depravity, and complete madness going on.

  • Proponent

    Incorrect..

    “12. Under what circumstances may a vaccine administrator or manufacturer be sued?

    a. If the petition has been judged non-compensable or dismissed under the VICP; or
    b. If the award granted by the VICP is otherwise rejected by the petitioner; or
    c. If the vaccine is not covered under the VICP.”

    (Source: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program )

    In other words..

    “Under the NVICP, those claiming a vaccine injury from a covered vaccine cannot sue a vaccine manufacturer without first filing a claim with the U.S. Court of Federal Claims.”

    (Source: History of Vaccines | “Vaccine Injury Compensation Programs” )

    … and if you were so ‘serious’ about the subject matter, one would think you would have been more diligent in your research.

    Shameful.. and.. I am embarrassed for you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Shhhh! The grown-ups are talking.

  • And winks at his own obvious stupidity. Go gnash your teeth in humiliation, and chow on some more of your butter. Chomp, chomp, chomp. So if you had in front of you a video of just being vaccinated infants; you would chose that to be in theater format so you could enjoy and relish the sickness and the thought of all those resulting vaccine injuries. That is what you are telling me.

  • You mentally do not even come close to any form of having a grown up mentality. But go ahead and live within your delusions, all you want.

  • Jonathan Graham

    And in your delusional mind you actually think this is what you are doing? And could you actually be any more hypocritical and in making a bigger and more obvious fool of yourself here.]

  • I am very well aware of what the Vaccine Injury Compensation program consists of. I am also quite well aware of how they operate. Your post provided no argument and nor actual response whatsoever to my previous reply post.

  • I am providing to the public the vaccine truth, that is correct. Stop trying to copy my sentences. All you are doing is making yourself to be a complete hypocrite.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your level of broken and twisted insanity, and your level of deception is something that really needs to be studied by some well educated psychologists.]

  • So instead of realizing my point and as I have as well referenced my points; you instead as attempting to rewrite my points and from a standpoint of altering and attempting to rewrite them, now you are going to tell me what I have said and have not said. That, as to what I have stated and put forth. Could there even be possible the continuance of any more obvious levels of in denial insanity, and on your part?

    So again, for how much longer are you going to continue to evade a direct reply to the information and the said studies in the original reply post at the top of this thread, and as if it never existed?

    This again, is why you need to be banned from any further reply posting here on this site. Disrupt, distract, and throw more false discreditation at the information sources, and as well those who provide it; that is all you ever can do.

  • Jonathan Graham

    now you are going to tell me what I have said and have not said.

    No. You have. You have admitted that you have constructed no sentence stating “total risk = ” and “total benefit = ” as stated by you here:

    I actually have reply posted no sentence here at all ever, that has contained the terms “total risk = ” and “total benefit.

    Without that you cannot make your point. Which you clearly state was the WHOLE point of your post. So anything else you mention is by your own words irrelevant. :-)

  • So now you are just simply copying my sentences, and without any reply. How could this possibly even become, and get any more sick? Vactruth, you really need to ban this guy; and now. What would be enough?

  • Stated by and as the devils deceptive work, and as only the devils work could do it. Yo obvious level of reply posting insanity needs to be banned. When twisted and sick mockery becomes the only game these people have going, then it is then long past time to ban them, vactruth editor. .

  • Jonathan Graham

    See, I told you that your reply posting twisted insanity is nothing more than exactly that.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So you agree that…
    i) the whole point of your big post up there is to talk about how X > Y. Right?
    ii) You agree that it’s necessary to quantify this.
    iii) You agree that in this case we are talking about the vaccine risks being greater than the benefits.
    iv) You also say that you have never provided a statement which quantifies the values of X > Y in the form “Total risk = ___ ” and “Total benefit = ____” or similar forms.

    Hence you have missed making your “whole point”. If you disagree please point out the lemma you have issue with.

  • I want to make a bot that runs around demanding P.B.Es/R.B.Es to using the toilet – 33,000 people are injured whilst using the toilet every year – Where There’s A Risk, There Must Be A Choice – right?

    I would need to learn how to make bots first though.

  • Good news!

    We can all stop worrying about the “autism epidemic” – difficulties with socialization won’t matter since there’s no social contract, right, Lowell?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m sure that would violate the Disqus TOS and I only talk about such things as a joke.. In my experience it can range in difficulty and while I haven’t looked into Disqus itself just observing the way the comment widget loads there’s probably some countermeasures. Just googling “disqus bots” found a bunch of examples – including one’s you can just buy off-the-shelf.

    All that said, I’m almost positive I can construct a Lowell-like grammar engine. If you noticed my comments that end with “]” are copy/pasted from Lowell and used as responses. It required almost no changes. Which means that you can generate Lowell-like speech without much regard for context. This is close to the ideal situation for machine generated text.

  • Ron Roy

    Then why are you talking?

  • JGC

    “Chicken pox is considered to be a mild disease in children, with most experiencing no complications.”

    Only if one defines ‘mild disease” as a disease that causes in the United States alone4 million infections each year (mostly in children), requiring 11,000 hospitalizations and resulting in more than 100 deaths.

  • Who said it had to be unleashed onto disqus at any point? :P

  • For heaven’s sake.

    Even in school, if I was writing an essay on something for English Lit – I had to make my point then provide evidence (quote from the text) then explain how the evidence supported my point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Exactly. Short papers, short quotes usually get inset with a footnote. Long papers, long quotes just get footnoted. Many of the papers he references use the same format. e.g. http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

  • Nelda: Unless you are willing to commit to communicating this over smoke signals – you don’t get to claim that humans aren’t capable of improving on nature.

  • Waiting for evidence of payment.

  • guest

    Data please. According to the CDC National Vital Statics Report between the years 2000-2015 (data not completed) the number of deaths from Varicella “Related” Illness is 237. Data is online. Varicella related means they died from other causes but also were diagnosed with chicken pox. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/nvsr.htm. Start with the year 2000 and work you way through. In a country of over 3 and a half million people over a 15 years period that number doesn’t move the percentage on the database as tragic as it is. But other illness have a much higher death toll than Varicella:

    Deaths: 2013. CDC is always a year or so behind in category.
    Heart disease: 614,348
    Cancer: 591,699
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 147,101
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 136,053
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 133,103
    Alzheimer’s disease: 93,541
    Diabetes: 76,488
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,227
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 48,146
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 42,773

    237 deaths from Varicella related illness over a 15 years period in comparison to the above, it seems to me that the CDC and the pharmaceutical company are focusing on the wrong illnesses. However they really aren’t because Vaccines are the big revenue makers for big pharma:

    For Struggling Pharma Market, Vaccines Offer Path to Revenue
    The World Vaccines Market Is Predicted to Reach $45.1 billion in 2022
    http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/for-struggling-pharma-market-vaccines-offer-path-to-revenue/77900658/

  • JGC

    Guest, you do understand that I was providing statistics for varicella incidence, hospitalization a and deaths prior to the development of an effective vaccine against it?

    Starting with year 2000, when prophylactic vaccination is in effect, will not reflect he degree of risk associated with this “minor” disease

  • Sonja Henie

    Is “you idiot” against the TOS? The vaccine came out in 1995, genius. So what good would data be that starts five years after the vaccine came out?

    Try this, doofus: http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/182/2/383.full
    “From 1970 to 1994, 2262 death records listed varicella as the underlying cause of death, an average of 90 deaths per year;
    these ranged from 47 deaths in 1986 to 138 in 1973.”

  • Mike Stevens

    You’ll just have to “home evacuate”.

  • Co-ercion is not a choice! What happened to informed consent? I’m sure that there is something in the law somewhere that says I can do both.

    See, I can post nonsense too.

  • Mike Stevens

    Nelda, I see from the pic in your avatar that you are wearing a top.
    Can you explain why? Surely clothes cannot be an “improvement over nature”, can they? Heaven forbid!

  • Also, Nelda is communicating over a global network.

    Surely, that cannot be an “improvement over nature” – God gave us mouths and hands and bodies – what do we need the internet for, Nelda?

  • Lowell Hubbs

    This not an issue of any X > Y. This is an issue of showing the reality of the more harm than good done by vaccines. Perhaps you should begin with outlining it and the issue correctly. That information clearly shows how and why vaccines are doing far more harm than good, in the over-all public health picture. What I posted was only a small segment of multiple level information that exists and that can be easily found.

    I certainly have made a statement here that obviously quantifies the values. However I have not and will not be forming anything with the use of the insanity riddled outline that you have posted above. No matter how many times you spin it, the evidence of that said more harm than good being done, does not simply go away; and as much as through your twisted outline you would desire for that to somehow happen. You simply refuse to face and acknowledge the real vaccine truth information, and the existing studies.

  • guest

    Source.

  • Fabrication the criteria for what, and about what? Go ahead and point out and provide directly the evidence for your claim? I have never needed to and nor ever used any form of cognitive dissonance. I simply research the issues and directly provide the applicable evidence of and as to what has been found. Unlike you, when you deal in only facts and identifiable truths, there is no of the use of any form of cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is only used by those people who have a need to deny and cover-up the truth, and as well as deny the evidence of the truth, and reality

  • guest

    Please provide the links to the CDC National Vital Statics Report to substantiate this information. A report can say anything, I would like to see the data from the official records. The numbers are inconsistent with the National Vital Statics reports for the US. Provide link to the actual data, not a grph which everyone knows can be manipulated.

    Name calling is the last refuge of the outargued. If you must resort to name calling you’ve lost the argument. I look forward to the multiple links to the actual data, not a juiced up paid for pharma study.

  • Jonathan Graham

    This not an issue of any X > Y. This is an issue of showing the reality of the more harm than good done by vaccines.

    I have no idea what that means in English. Saying that vaccines do more harm than good IS saying that X > Y where X is the harm done by vaccines and Y is the good done by vaccines.

    I certainly have made a statement here that obviously quantifies the values.

    A statement of that sort would have to be of the sort “harm from vaccines = ____ and good from vaccines = ____ ” and you have made no such statement so you are lying. QED.

  • Sonja Henie

    Oh, there are multiple links, at the end of the article I referenced. Help yourself; I’m not going to copy/paste.

    Look, you’re stupid. You can’t figure out that if you’re looking at deaths from varicella, you look at numbers from before the vaccine came out.

  • guest

    Provide the direct pages. If you can.

  • You entirely missed the point. What that study shows is that vaccination reduces maternal antibodies, and thus that immunity that can be passively transferred to an infant. This is another negative aspect to vaccines. That was my point. No matter how you twist it, infants unprotected by passive maternal antibodies, can be a serious issue. You do remember that infants under 1 year of age can not, or at least should not be vaccinated with the MMR.

    Of course, always favoring toxic and known contaminated vaccines, to that of natural immunity, the CDC promotes this kind of reckless arrogance in the advisement against attaining breast fed natural immunity and as to and in regard to an infant.

    CDC ADVISES DELAYED BREASTFEEDING TO BOOST VACCINE EFFICACY

    If breastmilk’s immune-boosting properties fight-off the live vaccine, then that means that breastmilk is fighting off the virus itself (just in smaller quantities).

    Yet instead of recommending that the best way to fight this disease in infants is to encourage mothers to breastfeed, they’re recommending that mothers refrain from breastfeeding so that the vaccine can work!

    I’m troubled by the underlying assumptions these researchers are making. They’re assuming, for example, that the vaccine should be used regardless of its efficacy. They’re assuming that the vaccine is better for the baby than breastfeeding. They’re assuming that the vaccine is safe.

    Read more:
    http://www.foodrenegade.com/cdc-advises-delayed-breastfeeding-boost-vaccine-efficacy/

    Study Conclusions. Children of mothers vaccinated against measles and, possibly, rubella have lower concentrations of maternal antibodies and lose protection by maternal antibodies at an earlier age than children of mothers in communities that oppose vaccination. This increases the risk of disease transmission in highly vaccinated populations.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

  • Jonathan Graham

    Go ahead and point out and provide directly the evidence for your claim?

    Do what is impossible for The Lowell Hubbs? Of course I can. You said:

    Most psychologists I am sure would determine that reply of yours to be evidence of insanity and a degenerative mental condition

    Here you are pretending that I am meeting some set of criteria that most psychologists would agree with. You are not a psychologist, nor can you represent most psychologists. Not only that but you are so ignorant of psychological principles that can’t even use the phrase “cognitive dissonance” correctly. It’s not a thing you USE it’s a STATE.

    You believe you are right, I’ve shown pretty clearly that you are wrong above something. This puts you in the STATE of cognitive dissonance Calling me insane allows you to deal with this state you are in. In this case you have done that by pretending that you have any idea what most psychologists would think about my posts. :-)

  • You can clearly see that the information and the studies show directly and exactly what I stated that they do.

    In your obvious in denial insanity, you can spin it all you want and 100 times more backwards and forwards X ^ > < and upside down. At the end of the day and that twisted process, the reality of the obviously shown outcome is still the same; vaccines continue to do far more harm than good, to human and the over-all situation regarding public health. Just because you refuse to face it and that reality, doesn't make it go away.

  • We are reply posting on vactruth, not writing a school essay. All that is required here is that the claim and point be directly stated, and then backed up with factual data, and scientific study references. How many of you shills have EVER done that? And in the rare occasion that and if you ever do, you still get again shot down in the follow up analysis, and because of your distorted only pro-vaccine interpretation of the study. Just look at what happened right here.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You entirely missed the point.

    Actually you have missed the point of what my favorite Boson and I were talking about. Try reading what people are talking about before commenting next time.

  • Sonja Henie

    Open the d*mn link. You’ve been too insulting. Not doing anything for you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    In other words, you have not made your point. What you claim that if I read all those studies and do the math that you couldn’t do even if you tried – which you never have. A point of that sort will be made. What you do not appear to understand is that these are almost entirely unrelated things.

  • So in honesty you really can not point to anything at all. Your reply again is to attempt to promote and use only more false discreditation. No one will ever need to be a licensed psychologist, to realize exactly what goes on with you. If you doubt my word then simply go get an evaluation and bring along a copy of your reply posts. You are right, I am not a psychologist and nor a psychiatrist, but it sure would be interesting to read, and if they ever did a full evaluation of you.

    My reference to you and in regard to my stated claim as your use of an obsessive level of cognitive dissonance, is exactly correct. You can deny it and twist it again in all 4 directions, and all you want. Your direct and obvious use of cognitive dissonance, still stands as being your personal reality.

  • And you really and actually think that level of twisted and maniacal denial, will allow you to deny the existence of the above information, and again showing vaccines to be potentially doing far more harm than good to over-all public health?

    So what is your real name? Is there as well any reason that you can not directly list and reveal your obvious conflicts of interest?

  • Quite obviously all of that information and those studies are related to the issue of not only the harm done by vaccines, but as well in the bigger picture more harm than good being done as to the general health of the public. You simply refuse to face it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your reply again is to attempt to promote and use only more false discreditation.

    Nope. It’s real discrediting you – you made a claim that you can represent the opinion of MOST psychologists and you can not – the fact that you didn’t know that cognitive dissonance is a state not a thing you use is rather telling.

    No one will ever need to be a licensed psychologist, to realize exactly what goes on with you.

    This is another attempt to deal with dissonance by moving the goalposts from claiming that you can speak for most psychologists to claiming something else.

    If you doubt my word then simply go get an evaluation and bring along a copy of your reply posts.

    Again, you are attempting to deal with the fact that your claim is incorrect by now shifting the burden of proof.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So what is your real name?

    Sorry I don’t give out my personal information on the internet. I have an actual job and a family neither of which do I want abusive people like yourself involved in.

    Is there as well any reason that you can not directly list, and reveal any and all of your conflicts of interest?

    You will have to define what constitutes a conflict of interest but I do not work for or receive funds from any medical or pharmaceutical company.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, you can claim whatever you want about those studies. However your claims are only that. Since you are unwilling to do the minimum amount of work involved in making your point. I’m equally uninterested in reading through a bunch of studies especially since you are willing to include studies which say nothing at all about vaccines.

  • These studies and the information show directly the benefits of not vaccinating, you have it and your understanding of this information and what is going on here, more than a bit backwards. Thus as to what it says, it is still all quite obviously relevant and related to the issue of vaccines. As to your persistent level of existing cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty; first you must have a genuine interest in researching and a desire to know the vaccine truth. You obviously do not have that within you.

    Brain Cancer Risk May Be Reduced in Those With History of Chicken Pox

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

    In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.

    Read more:
    http://neurosciencenews.com/glioma-brain-cancer-chicken-pox-3942/

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery
    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Measles and Mumps Protect Against Heart Attack and Stroke
    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/measles-and-mumps-protect-against-heart-attack-and-stroke/

    Studies show: Natural Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox & Influenza viruses protect against cancer
    http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2015/03/10/studies-show-natural-mumps-measles-chicken-pox-influenza-viruses-protect-against-cancer/

    Curr Top Microbiol Immunol. 2009; 330: 213–241.
    Measles virus for cancer therapy
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926122/

    Viera Scheibner was actually, right.

    Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at:http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Protective Effect of Childhood Measles Against Degenerative Diseases in Later Life

    The above study indicates that a lack of rash in measles is associated with an increased incidence of autoimmune and degenerative diseases in later life. As the rash is the means through which the toxin is expelled from the body, its absence leads to the measles virus remaining in the body. The widespread use of vaccination has led to the appearance of “atypical measles” and “mild measles” where no rash develops. This can expose children to diseases in later life.

    Read more:
    http://www.vaccines.me/articles/afcjt-protective-effect-of-childhood-measles-against-degenerative-diseases-in-later-life.cfm

    Measles Virus Infection Without Rash In Childhood Is Related To Disease In Adult Life.

    The Lancet, January 5 1985

    Abstract

    The presence of measles specific antibodies is usually taken as evidence of typical measles in the past; in the present study it was regarded as evidence of infection with measles virus, but not necessarily of the common disease accompanied by a typical rash. The association between a negative history of measles in childhood and certain diseases later in life was investigated by a historical prospective method, based on school health records combined with self-reporting in adulthood, and tests for specific IgG measles antibody. There was evidence of association between a negative history of measles, exposure in early life (possibly injection of immune serum globulin after exposure), and development of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours. It is suggested that the presence of measles virus specific antibodies at the time of acute infection interferes with development of specific cytolytic reactions, and enables intracellular measles virus to survive the acute infection. If this hypothesis is verified, use of immune serum globulin after measles exposure has to be reconsidered.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2885%2990961-4/abstract

    Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    A recent study found that women vaccinated with the measles vaccine pass on far less immunity to their offspring than women who are not vaccinated. Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/503025.stm

    Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage

    Conclusions. Children of mothers vaccinated against measles and, possibly, rubella have lower concentrations of maternal antibodies and lose protection by maternal antibodies at an earlier age than children of mothers in communities that oppose vaccination. This increases the risk of disease transmission in highly vaccinated populations.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

    The truth about the measles, natural immunity, and the vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-truth-about-the-measles-natural-immunity-and-the-vaccine.html

    Vaccines Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    https://liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    Vaccine. 2008 Mar 25;26(14):1725-30. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2008.01.041. Epub 2008 Feb 13.
    Kinetics of asthma- and allergy-associated immune response gene expression in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from vaccinated infants after in vitro re-stimulation with vaccine antigen.
    Lahdenperä AI1, Nilsson LJ, Regnström K.

    Abstract

    The global expression of immune response genes in infants after vaccination and their role in asthma and allergy is not clearly understood. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study the involved cellular responses, since the expression of thousands of genes can be assessed simultaneously. Here, array technology was used to assess the expression kinetics of immune response genes with association to asthma and allergy in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) of five healthy infants after vaccination with Infanrix-Polio+Hib. At 12h after in vitro re-stimulation of the PBMC with pertussis toxin (PT) antigen, 14 immune response pathways, 33 allergy-related and 66 asthma-related genes were found activated.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336961

  • No one has ever threatened you and nor ever stated that you would be gone after. You just make it up as you go. Look at me, I am wide open and have been so since 2008. That is because I believe in the mission of vaccine truth enough, to choose to not to be a hiding coward.

    So you refuse to provide a list of your conflicts of interest, and because you do not understand what a constitutes a conflict of interest and what a conflict of interest actually is. And you actually expect that to be believable.

    So then if that is true that you now receive no funding from the medical side and/or big pharma; then do you receive your funding from thugs and other creeps that pay you enough money? Or is it just your own personal vendetta?

  • What an entirely twist mind. You are what you are and it does not take a psychologist to figure that out. What is really happening here is that you are denying the truth, and by any twisted means that you can attempt to dig up.

  • Why don’t you try and actually get honest? My reply obviously made my point perfectly clear. You just simply refuse to ever be wrong. Again, you are actually anti-science, and you obviously do not even know how to in unbiased terms, properly read and interpret the findings of a study.

  • And if you were paid, you would not hide that evidence, and you would allow for that to be known? No shills ever do, face it. Just go ahead and list any and all conflicts of interest that you have? You know you won’t tell the truth about that, either.

  • Jonathan Graham

    These studies and the information show directly the benefits of not vaccinating

    Sorry that’s entirely incorrect. That first study only says there is an advantage to having the chickenpox. It compared nobody (or virtually nobody) who was vaccinated. Ergo you can’t draw that conclusion from that data. For all you know the vaccine is just as effective.

    I’ll also point out again that the author is being more than a little optimistic about this not being a coincidence. Effect size is correlated with likelihood. However I give them props for not effusing as much as someone as ignorant as yourself in these matters.

    But I’m not interested in reading beyond that because you are doing near zero work communicating your point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No one has ever threatened you

    Look Lowell I do try to be polite to you – in case you haven’t noticed people here regularly give me props for being polite to you lot. So I’m sorry if this puts too fine a point on it but you are an absolutely and demonstrably horrible person in just about every aspect of your personality that you show here. Hopefully in real life you are a better person. Hopefully you’re not an abusive bully to the people close to you but you are here.

    So, the value I place on crossing paths with anyone remotely like you in real life is considerably less than zero. So it would be hard to come up with something you could give me that would make identifying myself worthwhile. Secondly as something of an expert in the field of IT security – I also know that it’s near impossible to reverse disclosing my identity. To a rational person – this would require an even larger payoff to be worthwhile. Finally I don’t have to simply be concerned about myself – I have children and a wife and again disturbing their lives in anyway with my hobby has a high negative value. Only a stupid person gives something of value away for free.

    So you refuse to provide a list of your conflicts of interest, and because you do not understand what a constitutes a conflict of interest and what a conflict of interest actually is

    I have disclosed everything that I would consider to be a conflict of interest. If you have anything to add to the list feel free to ask specifically. Otherwise this just sounds like another Lowell attempt at making yourself feel good.

    do you receive your funding from thugs and other creeps that pay you enough money?

    Nobody is paying me to post here if that’s what you mean.

    Or is it just your own personal vendetta?

    False dichotomy – read a logic text. Nope it’s just a hobby.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, you are just moving the goalposts. Before you claimed you could speak for most psychologists. Now that that is clearly an unreasonable claim. You are in a dissonant state, you attempt to resolve it by making a different claim.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your point, was simply not relevant to the discussion Jenny and I were having. Which makes your claim that I was missing the point. False.

  • It is MY own personal vendetta – like I said, if you tell people they are worse than an easily preventable plague – they do not tend to take it all that well.

  • All listed on my profile.

  • JGC

    The source is the CDC’s MMWR report of May 28.1999 (see http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4806a1.htm)

    Double blind study evidence of efficacy:

    Weibel R., Neff B. J., Kuter B. J., et al. Live attenuated varicella virus vaccine: efficacy trial in healthy children. N. Engl. J. Med. 1984;310:1409–1415.

    Weibel R., Kuter B. J., Neff B., et al. Live Oka/Merck varicella vaccine in healthy children: further clinical and laboratory assessment. J. Am. Med. Assoc. 1985;245:2435–2439.

    Varis T., Vesikari T. 1996Efficacy of high titer live attenuated varicella vaccine in healthy young children J. Infect. Dis. 174S330–S334.

    Additional evidence of efficacy from long term post-approval surveillance:

    Vázquez M, LaRussa PS, Gershon AA, Niccolai LM, Muehlenbein CE, Steinberg SP, Shapiro ED. Effectiveness over time of varicella vaccine. JAMA. 2004 Feb 18;291(7):851-5.

    Kuter B, Matthews H, Shinefield H, Black S, Dennehy P, Watson B, et al. Ten year follow-up of healthy children who received one or two injections of varicella vaccine. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2004;23:132–7.

    Asano Y, Suga S, Yoshikawa T, Kobavashi I, Yazaki T, Shibata M, et al. Experience and reason: twenty-year follow-up of protective immunity of the Oka strain live varicella vaccine. Pediatrics. 1994;94:524-6.

  • guest

    Looked at the links. Pure BS. As I said data inconsistent with the CDC’s own National Vital Statics Reports.

    “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” —Marcia Angell, MD

    Richard Smith, who served as the editor of BMJ between 1991 and 2004
    “Most of what is published in journals is just plain wrong or nonsense,” says Smith, warning that there is no credible evidence to suggest that the peer review process is an effective method of detecting errors or ensuring that only sound science gets published in the world’s leading journals.

    “If peer review was a drug it would never get on the market because we have lots of evidence of its adverse effects and don’t have any evidence of its benefit,” contends Smith. “It’s time to slaughter the sacred cow.

    “Peer review is a failure and, ironically, it’s more faith-based than science-based, says Smith.

    “(Medical) journals have devolved into information laundering operations for the pharmaceutical industry” “We know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.” – Richard Horton, MD, current editor-in-chief of the Lancet:
    Dr. Richard Horton, editor of the U.K.’s other top-leading journal The Lancet, appears to hold similar views concerning peer review. In a separate editorial of the same nature, Dr. Horton wrote that “[M]uch of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.”

    This, he contends, is due to factors such as small sample sizes, conflicts of interests among researchers, and “an obsession” among scientists to “pursue fashionable trends of dubious importance.”
    http://www.naturalnews(dot)com/049694_BMJ_peer_review_science_journals.html. source links at site.

    Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients :
    Ben Godlacre

    “Medicine is broken … We like to imagine that medicine is based on evidence, and the results of fair tests. In reality, those tests are often profoundly flawed. We like to imagine that doctors are familiar with the research literature, when in reality much of it is hidden from them by drug companies. We like to imagine that doctors are well-educated, when in reality much of their education is funded by industry. We like to imagine that regulators only let effective drugs onto the market, when in reality they approve hopeless drugs, with data on side effects casually withheld from doctors and patients….I’m going to tell you how medicine works … We’re going to see that the whole edifice of medicine is broken, because the evidence we use to make
    decisions is hopelessly and systematically distorted …”

    Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don’t like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug’s true effects.
    Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug’s life, and even then they don’t give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion. In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of
    as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work
    directly for the companies, without disclosure. Sometimes whole academic
    journals are even owned outright by one drug company. Aside from all this, for several of the most important and enduring problems in medicine, we have no idea what the best treatment is, because it’s not in anyone’s financial interest to conduct any trials at all. These are ongoing problems, and although people have claimed to fix many of them, for the most part they have failed; so all these problems persist, but worse than ever, because now people can pretend that everything is fine after all.[10]

    -Peer review: a flawed process at the heart of science and journals:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/
    -Conflict of interest in medical journals
    Aust Prescr 2015;38:2-3 | 2 February 2015 | http://dx.doi.org/10.18773/austprescr.2015.001.

  • guest

    None of these are independent studies. They have been used by trolls before. Also, all the journals that are posted are financed primarily by the pharmaceutical industry. Independent studies please. Read my response to your cohort Sonja.

  • JGC

    So your response, when supplied the studies you asked for, is “Those don’t count”? Really?

    Please provide concrete evidence that the journals in which the cited studies I provided are financed primarily by the pharmaceutical industry, and–this is the critical part–that this demonstrably results in the articles being inappropriately biased.

    Or does you objection take the more refined form of “Those don’t count because CONSPIRACY THEORY”?

  • AutismDadd

    Did Jenny call you a lurker yet? That’s her big gun.

  • AutismDadd

    Harassment by Hammy

  • Jonathan Graham

    Harassing is what you are doing right now.

  • This how a review of the vaccine truth information, and with a comparison of the existing science and the studies, is done.

    Chicken pox vaccine associated with shingles epidemic

    New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

    New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

    Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

    Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Another recent peer-reviewed article authored by Dr. Goldman and published in Vaccine presents a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

    After a child has had varicella (chickenpox), the virus becomes dormant and can reactivate later in adulthood in a closely related disease called shingles–both caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). It has long been known that adults receive natural boosting from contact with children infected with chicken pox that helps prevent the reactivation of shingles.

    Based on Dr. Goldman’s earlier communications with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Goldman maintains that epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

    “Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine. “The principal reason that vaccinees in Japan maintained high levels of immunity 20 years following vaccination was that only 1 in 5 (or 20%) of Japanese children were vaccinated,” he said. “So those vaccinated received immunologic boosting from contact with children with natural chickenpox. But the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S. will nearly eradicate this natural boosting mechanism and will leave our population vulnerable to shingles epidemics.”

    For decades it was thought shingles increased with age as older individuals’ immune systems declined. However, Goldman’s new research shows this phenomenon seemed primarily due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children declined.

    Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.

    About Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D.: Currently serves as Founder and Editor-in- Chief of the peer-reviewed medical journal Medical Veritas (www.MedicalVeritas.com). Has recently authored five manuscripts concerning varicella, herpes zoster, and capture-recapture published in the European journal called Vaccine.

    http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx

    The Case against Universal Varicella Vaccination
    Gary S. Goldman
    http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/25/5/313.abstract

    Full text study
    http://www.tested.net/vaccines/goldman.pdf

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 1.
    Review of the United States universal varicella vaccination program: Herpes zoster incidence rates, cost-effectiveness, and vaccine efficacy based primarily on the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project data. Goldman GS1, King PG.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22659447

    Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster
    Gary S. Goldman
    http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/24/4/205.abstract

    Appendix X. Brief Summary of Chickenpox: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption

    1. Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., began to report an unexpectedly high shingles incidence rate among
    children while serving as Research Analyst for the Varicella Active Surveillance Project (VASP), one
    of three sites selected by the CDC to study the effect of the varicella vaccine on the population.

    13. Goldman independently published three manuscripts1,2,3 after overcoming the notice to
    “Cease and Desist” initiated by Dr. Laurene Mascola, Acute Communicable Disease Control
    Unit, Los Angeles Department of Health Services. Since VASP with funding from CDC was
    a public-funded study, data was not confidential and was available to any citizen through the
    Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

    1 Varicella susceptibility and incidence of herpes-zoster among children and adolescents
    in a community under active surveillance. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct. 1; 21(27-
    30):4238–42.

    2 Incidence of herpes-zoster among children and adolescents in a community with
    moderate varicella vaccination coverage. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct. 1; 21(27-
    30):4243–9.

    3 Using capture-recapture methods to assess varicella incidence in a community under
    active surveillance. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct 1; 21(27-30):4250–55.

    Read more:
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Goldman-SummaryofChickenpoxVaccine1.pdf

    The Chickenpox Vaccine: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption book by Dr. Gary S. Goldman
    http://www.healthyworldstore.com/product-p/chickenpox%20vaccine%20pdf.htm

    Medical Veritas International Inc.
    http://www.medicalveritas.com/

    STUDIES AND RESEARCHES ON AUTISM DISORDERS

    The health risks of using human fetal cell lines for vaccine manufacture have been debated by scientists for over 50 years.

    The active component of a vaccine is a virus. Viruses are too large to manufacture in test tubes. Therefore, vaccine manufacturers exploit the natural method of producing virus– they inoculate cells and the cells produce the virus for them. Each vial of vaccine contains contaminants from the cells used to make the virus. When we use animal cells to make viruses, the residual material is not human and so we mount an immune response to it and eliminate it. However, in the case of vaccines produced using human fetal cell lines, we have the health risk of triggering an autoimmune response and insertion of the contaminating DNA to disrupt the child’s own genes.

    In the US, autism has spiked up in 3 distinct years, called changepoints. The first changepoint occurred in 1981, the second in 19881, and the third in 1996. These spikes coincide with the introduction of vaccines that are produced in human fetal cells. In 1979, human fetal cell produced MMR II was approved in the US. Compliance campaigns brought MMR II use up from as low as 49% for children born before 1987 to over 82% for children born in 1989 and later. A second dose of MMR II was also introduced to the vaccination schedule for children born in 1988 and later. The third changepoint corresponds to the approval of human fetal cell produced Varivax (chickenpox) in 1995 (See figure below).

    Read more:
    http://soundchoice.org/autism/

    Vaccines using aborted fetal cell lines
    USA & CANADA – ABORTED FETAL CELL LINE PRODUCTS AND ETHICAL ALTERNATIVES (Nov 2015)
    https://cogforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/vaccineListOrigFormat.pdf

    Vaccines, Abortion, & Fetal Tissue

    Basic vaccine and cell line science
    Cell lines originating from aborted babies
    U.S. approved vaccines from aborted cell lines
    U.S. approved alternative vaccines
    Should these vaccines be used? The moral & ethical
    considerations

    http://media.rtl.org/pdf/VaccinesPrint.pdf

    U.S. Aborted Fetal Products – Updated November 2015
    https://cogforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/fetalproductsall.pdf

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid cells (aborted fetal cell tissue, much more information, here)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Now let’s go to what those with vested interests in vaccines say about that increase in the cases shingles, etc. The CDC, and so called, webmd.

    And of course the CDC in this document admits that the cases of shingles are and have been increasing, yet claim they do not know the reason for that increase; (really)? All while the reason and as they describe has been right in front of them. So what do they do? They create some same CDC industry connected studies showing Herpes Zoster to have already been on the increase in adults prior to the use of the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine. Goldman’s study finds data that shows directly that that said increase in shingles diagnosis numbers was obvious, and significantly increased after use of the varicella vaccine. So again, who are you going to believe, study sources with zero conflict of interest, or the CDC article and their study sources, and who have everything to lose in admitting to any negative health aspect produced by vaccines, at all?

    CDC – Clinical Overview- Herpes Zoster (shingles)

    Trends

    Herpes zoster rates are increasing among adults in the United States. The increase has been gradual over a long period of time. We do not know the reason for this increase.[5,6,7]

    http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/hcp/clinical-overview.html

    Clin Infect Dis. 2011 Feb 1

    HZ incidence increased for the entire study period and for all age groups, with greater rates of increase 1993-1996 (P < .001). HZ rates were higher for females than males throughout the study period (P < .001) and for all age groups (P < .001). HZ incidence did not vary by state varicella vaccination coverage.

    CONCLUSIONS:

    HZ incidence has been increasing from 1993-2006. We found no evidence to attribute the increase to the varicella vaccine program.

    PMID:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21217180

    J Infect Dis. 2005 Jun 15;191(12):2002-7. Epub 2005 May 12.

    Incidence of herpes zoster, before and after varicella-vaccination-associated decreases in the incidence of varicella, 1992-2002.

    Conclusion: Our findings revealed that the vaccination-associated decrease in varicella disease did not result in an increase in the incidence of HZ. These early findings will have to be confirmed as the incidence of varicella disease continues to decrease.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15897984

    Annals of Internal Medicine. 159(11):739-45

    Examination of Links Between Herpes Zoster Incidence and Childhood Varicella Vaccination

    Conclusion: Age-specific HZ incidence increased in the U.S. population older than 65 years even before implementation of the childhood varicella vaccination program. Introduction and widespread use of the vaccine did not seem to affect this increase.

    http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1784289

    More denial by so called, webmd. So they simply produce another bogus epidemiological study showing no adverse effect at all. Yet they admit to a 39% increase in shingles, that they say is unexplained? Of course they again also claim that the increase in shingles cases began before the varicella vaccine was developed and in use. Really?

    Chickenpox Vaccine Not Responsible for Rise in Shingles, Study Says

    39 percent increase over 18 years remains unexplained

    "The chickenpox vaccine program was introduced in 1996, so we looked at the incidence of shingles from the early '90s to 2010, and found that shingles was already increasing before the vaccine program started," said study author Dr. Craig Hales, a medical epidemiologist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "And as immunization coverage in children reached 90 percent, shingles continued at the same rate."

    They found that annual rates of shingles increased 39 percent over the 18-year study period. However, they didn't find a statistically significant change in the rate after the introduction of the chickenpox vaccine. They also found that the rate of shingles didn't vary from state to state where there were different rates of chickenpox vaccine coverage.

    http://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/news/20131202/chickenpox-vaccine-not-responsible-for-rise-in-shingles-study-says

    Here is the CDC page where they of course push the shingles vaccine on every person over the age of 60. That is a lot of people, and of course a lot of vaccine profit. The shingles vaccine was not developed until after the use of varicella vaccine, but that is to be considered all as only a coincidence that it was needed to combat an obviously developing shingles epidemic due to the varicella vaccine. All a coincidence and as well that they did not already realize that would be happening, and now they deny even in their connected studies, that it did. See how it works, their having vaccine vested level of deny it all, corruption?

    Shingles (Herpes Zoster)

    http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/index.html

    Shingles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

    Risk Of Viral Reactivation With Shingles Vaccine, (did the CDC inform you of this yet, no?)

    Posted on September 26, 2012 by Vaccine Injury Lawyer

    Risk Of Vaccine Reactivating Latent Varicella Zoster From The Vaccine

    The Zostavax vaccine is essentially the same vaccine as that used for chickenpox, except significantly stronger.

    Zostavax contains live varicella zoster virus. The virulence of the virus is reduced or “attenuated”. Attenuated vaccines are designed to activate the immune system with the decreased risk of actually developing the disease. Zostavax is developed from a live attenuated version of the Oka/Merck VZV vaccine strain.

    A risk of using a live virus vaccine is that it is not weakened enough or “under -attenuated”. Under-attenuated live virus creates an increased risk of developing the disease the vaccine was to prevent. Once injected, attenuated live virus has been shown to recombine into more virulent strains causing disease.

    What Can Reactivated Varicella Zoster Virus Cause Besides Shingles?

    Post-vaccination viral infection can cause significant issues in the nervous system due to the replication of the latent virus in the nervous system. These complications include:

    •Encephalitis, an acute inflammation of the brain.

    •Focal neurological abnormalities can also occur, including ataxia (trouble walking), hypertonia (increased muscle tone) or hypotonia (decreased muscle tone), and hemiparesis (weakness on one-side of the body).

    •Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) is an immune-mediated inflammatory encephalopathy.

    Read more:

    http://www.vaccineinjuryhelpcenter.com/shingles-vaccine/

    What ever happened to the decision to do or not do this vaccinated verses unvaccinated health outcome study, and who voted against it???….Bill Posey's HR 1757? You no longer can find any record of the bill having been there in the federal legislative system voting record.

    Advanced Search for Legislation

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse#text=H.+R.+1757&sponsor=412309

    113th CONGRESS

    1st Session

    H. R. 1757

    To direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct or support a comprehensive study comparing total health outcomes, including risk of autism, in vaccinated populations in the United States with such outcomes in unvaccinated populations in the United States, and for other purposes.

    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    April 25, 2013

    Mr. POSEY (for himself and Mrs. CAROLYN B. MALONEY of New York) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce

    A BILL HR 1757

    The text of the bill below is as of Apr 25, 2013 (Introduced).

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1757/text

    Summaries for the Vaccine Safety Study Act (No more vaccine safety studies are needed, and nothing to see here, folks)

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1757/summary

    Search the bills

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse#text=H.+R.+1757&sponsor=412309

    Market and Technology Analysis

    May 23, 2016

    For Struggling Pharma Market, Vaccines Offer Path to Revenue

    The World Vaccines Market Is Predicted to Reach $45.1 billion in 2022

    http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/for-struggling-pharma-market-vaccines-offer-path-to-revenue/77900658/

    The 9 Magic Words That Prove Vaccines Are Unavoidably Unafe!

    THESE are the words.

    “If this vaccine injures my child, who is responsible?”

    Here’s what you do.

    Read more:
    http://www.riseearth.com/2013/02/9-magic-words-prove-vaccines-are.html

    Informed Consent / Vaccine Risks Disclosure Form
    http://www.vacfacts.info/informed-consent–vaccine-risks-disclosure-form.html

    Justification for a Federal Injunction to suspend all

    vaccine licenses based on unreasonable health risks and

    causal links to chronic disease pandemics

    Kent R. Holcomb

    Medical Legal Advocate

    Since the outbreaks of autism, ADHD, asthma, gastrointestinal,

    and autoimmune disease have sharply risen in the last 30 years

    and permeate large geographical areas, they are properly identified

    as pandemics rather than epidemics.

    Supporting this temporal data is a massive amount of high

    and good quality data which supports the hypothesis that the

    NVP is “more likely than not” the cause of these pandemics.

    Read more

    http://www.medicalveritas.com/man1925_1936.pdf

    Autism Studies and Related Medical Conditions, (master list that is approaching 600 citations).

    http://www.tacanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/autism-studies-april-2008.pdf

    124 Research papers supporting Vaccine/Autism Causation

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/124-Research-Papers-Supporting-the-Vaccine-Autism-Link

    Educate For The Vaccine Injured

    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/

    The Facts/Science

    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/#!the-factsscience/cc2d

    Callous Disregard-Supporting Research Studies

    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

    Review

    The Initial Common Pathway of Inflammation, Disease, and Sudden Death

    Robert M. Davidson 1,* and Stephanie Seneff 2

    http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/Entropy/Entropy1_downloaded.pdf

    Parents Of Vaccine Injured Children Asked To Stand And It’s Heartbreaking

    https://truthkings.com/parents-vaccine-injured-children-asked-stand-heartbreaking/#

    Raise your hand if you believe a vaccine caused your child's autism, and you can document it! (Bernard Rimland)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwtxyzmwUgU

    Hear This Well: Breaking the Silence on Vaccine Violence 263 videos 375,308 views

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

    ———–

    Justification for a Federal Injunction to suspend all

    vaccine licenses based on unreasonable health risks and

    causal links to chronic disease pandemics

    Kent R. Holcomb

    Medical Legal Advocate

    Since the outbreaks of autism, ADHD, asthma, gastrointestinal,

    and autoimmune disease have sharply risen in the last 30 years

    and permeate large geographical areas, they are properly identified

    as pandemics rather than epidemics.

    Supporting this temporal data is a massive amount of high

    and good quality data which supports the hypothesis that the

    NVP is “more likely than not” the cause of these pandemics.

    Dr. R. Blaylock’s microglial and astrocyte model (immune

    cells of the brain and nervous system) presents strong and high

    quality data from a wide range of disciplines. His hypothesis

    posits that the NVP schedule results in excessive and repeated

    overstimulation of the brain’s microglia and astrocytes for

    prolonged periods of time, resulting in vaccine-induced

    encephalitis (brain inflammation), which can be very destructive,

    leading to complications such as autism, ADHD (Attention

    Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), Parkinson’s Disease, and Gulf

    War Syndrome. Dr. Blaylock consistently cites the highest

    quality data available in his references. [SEE: e.g., Vargas et

    al., 2005 (Ref. 12); Russell L. Blaylock, Medical Veritas, 2008

    Apr.; 5(1):1727-1741, “The danger of excessive vaccination

    during brain development: the case for a link to Autism

    Spectrum Disorders.” (Ref. 13); and Russell L. Blaylock,

    VRAN Newsletter, Spring 2008, “Vaccines, Depression and

    Neuro-degeneration after age 50: Another Reason to Avoid

    Vaccines” (Ref. 14).]

    Under Dr. Blaylock’s model, numerous studies from the

    neurosciences indicate that this overstimulation is caused by

    live viruses, intoxicants and adjuvants such as mercury and

    highly insoluble aluminum, and increasing combinations of

    simultaneous vaccines, which may cause exponential increases

    in immunosuppressive and/or toxicity effects; that is, two

    vaccines together may increase immunosuppression and/or

    toxicities 10-fold, three vaccines together may cause 100-fold

    increases. As stated by Dr. Buttram (Ref. 2), it is with

    confidence we declare that Dr. Blaylock’s papers, as cited here,

    represent the most comprehensive publications to date on the

    pathophysiology of adverse vaccine reactions. [Refs. 13-17]

    3. SHHS subverts statutory vaccine safety duties with

    tainted committees that disregard high quality data linking

    NVP to pandemics in favor of corrupted data that supports

    vaccine licenses.

    Conclusions:

    Such suits would not be a battle of the experts but rather a

    battle of proper vs. improper scientific methodologies and

    scientific quality standards. Once all relevant safety studies are

    graded under recognized scientific standards, the flawed data

    will be removed from the courtroom. The remaining highquality

    data will be sufficient to convince 12 jurors that the

    National Vaccine Program has caused numerous pandemics.

    Questions and comments will be welcomed, and this author will

    help in any feasible manner such as evidence presentation

    tactics..

    Read more:

    http://www.medicalveritas.com/man1925_1936.pdf

    K.R. Holcomb/Medical Veritas 5 (2008)

    Shaken Baby Syndrome: actual innocence petition

    Kent R. Holcomb

    Medical Legal Advocate

    http://www.medicalveritas.com/man1828_1835.pdf

  • N. Engl. J. Med.
    J. Am. Med. Assoc.,JAMA
    Pediatr Infect Dis J.
    Pediatrics.

    And you asked. Please provide concrete evidence that the journals in which the cited studies I provided are financed primarily by the pharmaceutical industry,

    I would ask you if not financed by the pharmaceutical industry, then who are they financed by in whole, or in part? Is a person simply considered only a conspiracy theorist, to question that, or to even ask that question? All of those above sources are indoctrinated by the big pharma directed propaganda from the very first day of medical school and beyond. All medical doctors are simply and literally nothing but chemical drug prescriber’s, matched to a list of symptoms or diagnosis. Their continuing education surrounds often little more pharmaceutical reps coming around and with new information on prescribing newly FDA approved drugs and vaccines, and through other similar pharmaceutical company connections, meetings, and correspondence.

    Likewise the research arena within those established circles is just as tainted by the indoctrination of the pharmaceutical industry. In view of existing research on multiple levels, obviously there is a drive to cover-up and deny negative findings in regard to vaccines. They simply direct and publish again and again another junk science study claiming an opposite and in calculated and deliberate error, a obviously manufactured positive effect. So you haven’t see this happening? Just look at the comparison studies on this page, and in contrast to the real studies, for example.

    The truth about the measles, natural immunity, and the vaccine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-truth-about-the-measles-natural-immunity-and-the-vaccine.html

  • [So I’m sorry if this puts too fine a point on it but you are an absolutely and demonstrably horrible person in just about every aspect of your personality that you show here].

    So instead of deliberately making that all up as you go; why can’t you ever show and demonstrate any examples? As well why is it that in your obvious level of hypocrisy, you can not even begin to see yourself in any form of a mirror and realize just how horrible your posts and persona exist as right here on these articles? All you conduct is attempts at nothing but lying in in denial damage control, and apparently you can not even see who disastrous that outcome is for you in and as to showing directly what your agenda actually is here. In your false arrogance and denial you can not even see here that you would be been better off to not respond at all. You can it mockery, and as if that is your only game going. I call it a high level in denial, insanity. I call it only intended distraction and disruption; that instead of any honest and diligent effort to debate the facts and science.

    No in other words, you are simply and only looking to form again and again more obviously falsified excuses, and that is all you can do.

    You have not disclosed your conflicts of interest, and that is all to obvious; and that is just another lie.

    As far as responding to the rest of your twisted and truly pointless and meaningless rant; it is exactly that, and nothing more.

  • The current CDC vaccine schedule is the actual plague on public health, and the shill people like you who deny and continue to promote its toxic and contaminated forced tyranny, and its continued travesty. I have a vendetta as well, but it is one that only exposes and promotes the truth.

  • In your mind nothing but again the pro-vaccine false propaganda is ever relevant to the discussion. My replies have been right on target relevant, every time. There is absolutely nothing you will not deny and refuse the information on. Disrupt, distract, and to repeatedly attempt to mock the information, and the person posting it is the ONLY game you have going on here. Anyone with any honesty can see that.

  • I know what they’re made of.

  • Heh.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So instead of deliberately making that all up as you go; why can’t you ever show and demonstrate any examples?

    Dude. I tag you when you bully and are abusive quite frequently. The person who is blind is you.

    All you conduct is attempts at nothing but lying in in denial damage control,

    One rather important difference is that I’m talking about your abusive and bullying actions. Whereas what you describe “lying”, “denial” all require some degree of intent. So what I’m describing is objective and what you are describe is, for the most part subjective.

    You have not disclosed your conflicts of interest,

    This is simply untrue, I would define the phrase “conflicts of interest” to mean that I am employed by either pharmaceutical or medical industries or receive funding to post here. So in that well-defined sense I have no conflicts of interest. If you have another definition and you can talk about it without your stream of abuse then please do and I’ll fill you in where it is prudent.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The conversation I was having with Jenny wasn’t about vaccines. It was about how people write research and how obvious the format is – even in high school. Your comment was utterly irrelevant to that. Sorry. Next time read what you’re responding to.

  • Neither do I.

  • JGC

    Non responsive: Please provide concrete evidence that the journals in which the cited studies I provided are financed primarily by the pharmaceutical industry, and–this is the critical part–that this demonstrably results in the articles being inappropriately biased.

    Your argument from ignorance (“How else could they be financed?”) cannot serve in lieu of actual evidence.

    Your vacfacts opinion piece is authored by Shawn Siegel, who appears to be the originator of the infamous incidence graph that predicts that by 2032 100% of all males will be autistic, by 2041 100% of all girls will be autistic, and–here’s the really interesting part, 100% of the general population will be autistic by 2038, a full 3 years before 100% of all girls are autistic.

    Guess girls will no longer be included in the general population once all boys are autistic?

  • Sonja Henie

    LOL! You didn’t look at the references. They got their data from the CDC. Since you’re sooooo incompetent, I’ll have to show you!

    References
    1.↵Wharton M, Fehrs L, Cochi SL, et al. Health impact of varicella in the 1980s [abstract 1138]. Program and Abstracts of the 30th Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy; Atlanta, GA. Washington, DC: American Society for Microbiology; 1990. p. 276.
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    Abstract/FREE Full Text
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    Abstract/FREE Full Text
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    5.↵***Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Varicella-related deaths among children—United States, 1997. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 1998;47:365-8.
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    6.↵***Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Varicella-related deaths among adults—United States 1997. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 1997;46:409-12.
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    7.Fleisher G, Henry W, McSorley M, Arbeter A, Plotkin S. Life-threatening complications of varicella. Am J Dis Child 1981;135:896-9.CrossRefMedlineGoogle Scholar
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    12.↵Halloran ME, Cochi SL, Lieu TA, Wharton M, Fehrs L. Theoretical epidemiologic and morbidity effects of routine varicella immunization of preschool children in the United States. Am J Epidemiol 1994;140:81-104.
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    13.↵***National Center for Health Statistics. Eighth revision international classification of diseases, adapted for use in the United States. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office; 1967. (Public Health Service pub. 1693).
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    27.↵***Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Reye syndrome surveillance: United States, 1986. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 1987;36:689-91.
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    33.↵Flanders WD. Inaccuracies of death certificate information. Epidemiology 1992;3:3-5.
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    35.↵***Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Evaluation of varicella reporting to the National Notifiable Disease Surveillance System—United States, 1972–1997. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 1999;48:55-58.
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    ***CDC or other government source.

    You know bub, this took me a long time to format properly. You better be appreciative.

  • This is how I define conflicts of interest too and none of them apply to me.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m certainly open to meeting Lowell’s criteria (if it’s different) but he won’t disclose it. The reason for this I expect is obvious. By keeping it hidden (but claiming it’s “obvious”) allows him to feel that he’s right and fault people for not meeting his standard.

    Same tactic all through his posts where it will claim that he has obviously met some criteria but can’t tell you where. Yawn BOR-ing! :-)

  • I obviously know what it was..Jenny Higgs. Not on LinkedIn comment post, was sandwiched between your replies and mine, and the issues at the time being actively replied to, you twisted man. Your, “short papers, short quotes usually get inset with a footnote. Long papers, long quotes just get footnoted” ,,,stated and reply posted garbage, is and was what was actually not only irrelevant but just another twisted, pointless, and unsubstantiated claim. Next time, you read what is there!

  • Jonathan Graham

    I obviously know what it was.

    No, apparently you don’t. Since you keep trying so very hard to misunderstand.

    Jenny Higgs. Not on LinkedIn comment post, was sandwiched between your replies and mine

    Actually the post of mine that we’re discussing was not simply accidentally adjacent to my-favorite-boson’s post but was a clear, direct reply to her – you can see this if you click on the little arrow. Now if you want to chime in on that conversation you are more than welcome to. However what you chimed in with was almost entirely unrelated to what we were talking about: Research formats.

    Next time, read, think and THEN post. Rather that post, then spend the majority of time attempting to rationalize your post. Pro-tip! :-)

  • I just explained how and why it was related. My post as well relates quite well with what we were already reply posting about prior to Jenny Higgs chiming right into the existing replies. I simply countered both your reply and as well hers. My-favorite-boson? Are you sure you are actually from a human source of existence? I have to wonder.

  • It obviously is not an argument from ignorance. You argument is based on deliberate ignorance. Just reply to and answer the questions in my reply, and as well as examples review the study information I provided.

    I obviously was not at all talking about on that reference page, the so called opinion piece authored by Shawn Segal. I was talking about the comparative studies that you can easily find on that page. By comparative I am referring to the studies from sources with obvious vested interests in vaccines, verses those who do not. Those opposing studies are on the very same subject matters. In your world it is all about the denial of obvious reality and facts, and by any means possible. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

  • Jonathan Graham

    My post as well relates quite well with what we were already reply posting about prior to Jenny Higgs

    However the post you replied to was not talking about that. So YOU are the one making the irrelevant comment.

    Seriously, talk about social maladjustment.

  • As for the issues between you and I, you are the only abusive bully here. Quite obviously all I am doing is defending against it. You existing level of obvious, blatant, and shameless hypocrisy is beyond sickening. Tag and flag all you want, and good luck with that. I am doing the same thing.

    Conflicts of interest do not have to only be involved with direct payments from pharmaceutical and medical industries, and nor working directly or indirectly in the same field.

  • So you think vaccine injuries are funny? You think that being on the side of control of all information, and leaving individuals and families clueless as to what is actually happening with vaccines, is somehow funny?

  • And still you don’t care. Actually, i doubt that you do know.

    INDESCRIBABLY DISGUSTING VACCINE INGREDIENTS

    SO WHAT ABOUT THE FLY IN OUR SOUP?

    It may not do any harm at all, especially if it has been well heated in the soup!

    However, all injected substances including insect fragments bypass the body’s intricate defense mechanism. The same substances which are harmless when ingested are shown to be extremely detrimental to health when injected. This is learned by medical students and others, but many doctors, health authorities and other vaccine promoters appear to ignore this basic fact.

    Read more:
    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2012/01/indescribably-disgusting-vaccine.html

    Here is another issue that they have. If Gardasil is EVER recalled, and AFTER all their LIES that is still found to be safe, they go directly under the GUN as to what they knew and when they knew it. Just like as to all vaccines, the CDC and FDA have all along known what was happening, and chose not to admit to it. A large spot light put on Gardasil, and as it will be if recalled, will then bring into the spotlight the contamination issues with all vaccines, and as well the safety.

    Adventitious Agents and Vaccines

    Philip R. Krause (go to full text pdf)

    Food and Drug Administration, Bethesda, Maryland, USA

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631857/

    Full text:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631857/pdf/11485673.pdf

    Issues Associated With Residual Cell-Substrate DNA (I found Explorer worked to download this unbelievable read, and chrome did not)

    (Page 20 and 47 mention the said WHO limit of 10ng of human DNA in a vaccine. But many of the current vaccines are produced with said human diploid tissue, and so what then? No mention of that issue appeared to have been made. As well see there reference made of ongogenic activity, and infective activity. Obviously they do not have any actual and nor sufficient animal and nor human studies on and in regard to this said issue. What they have is literally only presumed estimates. The FDA thus clearly knows of the cancer causing potential, infective potential, and of the unknown potential to create both known and unknown created adverse health situations with these vaccines; such as autoimmune disease as well Wow.)

    http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/05/slides/5-4188S1_4draft.ppt

    New Study in Journal of Public Health and Epidemiology Correlates Autism Disorder Increase and Human Fetal DNA, Retroviral Agents in Vaccines

    (My review of the information): So it should come as no surprise that the FDA has known for decades about the dangers of insertional mutagenesis by using the human fetal cell lines and yet, they chose to ignore it. Instead of conducting safety studies they regulated the amount of human DNA that could be present in a vaccine to no greater than 10ng. (See the FDA PDF reference link below titled, Issues Associated With Residual Cell-Substrate DNA)

    Unfortunately, Dr. Deisher’s team discovered that the fetal DNA levels in vaccines produced with aborted fetal cell tissue, ranged anywhere from 142ng – 2000ng per dose, way beyond the so-called “safe” level.

    “There are a large number of publications about the presence of HERV (human endogenous retrovirus – the only re-activatable endogenous retrovirus) and its association with childhood lymphoma,” noted Dr Deisher. “The MMR II and chickenpox vaccines and indeed all vaccines that were propagated or manufactured using the fetal cell line WI-38 are contaminated with this retrovirus. And both parents and physicians have a right to know this!”

    Certainly these discoveries by SCPI should generate an immediate investigation by FDA officials, if not an outright ban on the use of aborted fetal cell lines as substrates for vaccine production. There are numerous other non-human FDA-approved cell lines that can and should be used.

    New Study in Journal of Public Health and Epidemiology Correlates Autism Disorder Increase and Human Fetal DNA, Retroviral Agents in Vaccines

    http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/965249574.html

    Dr Deisher’s study is available on the Academic Journals website at: http://www.ms.academicjournals.org/article/article1409245960_Deisher%20et%20al.pdf

    Or on their website at http://www.soundchoice.org/scpiJournalPubHealthEpidem092014.pdf

    CDC ADMITS THE PROBLEM

    “- Many novel vaccines are produced in animal cell substrates, and emerging infectious diseases may theoretically be transmitted from animals to humans through these vaccines. The challenge of identifying potential adventitious agents in vaccines closely parallels the challenge of identifying the agents causing particular emerging infectious diseases.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631857/pdf/11485673.pdf

    Again, here go; two of the most important vaccine related articles you will ever find.

    INDESCRIBABLY DISGUSTING VACCINE INGREDIENTS

    SO WHAT ABOUT THE FLY IN OUR SOUP?

    It may not do any harm at all, especially if it has been well heated in the soup!

    However, all injected substances including insect fragments bypass the body’s intricate defense mechanism. The same substances which are harmless when ingested are shown to be extremely detrimental to health when injected. This is learned by medical students and others, but many doctors, health authorities and other vaccine promoters appear to ignore this basic fact.

    Read more:

    http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2012/01/indescribably-disgusting-vaccine.html

    If You Are In Support of Vaccinations, Read This If You Dare

    http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/if-you-are-in-support-of-vaccinations/

    Most of the below information is taken from the above two articles.

    FDA: ONLY NONBINDING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR TESTING

    There is no incentive for vaccine promoters to find substances which are detrimental to health. FDA only presents nonbinding recommendations:

    “If an adventitious agent is known to be present in your cell substrate or viral seed, then you should demonstrate that your production process is sufficiently robust to eliminate or inactivate the agent with an appropriate margin of safety.” http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/guidances/vaccines/ucm202439.pdf

    POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF INJECTING FOREIGN DNA

    “ – DNA is used from such organisms as animals, animal viruses, fungi, and bacteria. It has been documented that injecting foreign DNA in a human may cause it, or a portion of it, to be incorporated into the recipient’s DNA. The horrendous implications for the unborn defy the imagination.”http://healthwyze.org/index.php/vaccine-secrets.html

    “- most vaccines are contaminated with a number of known and yet-to-be discovered viruses, bacteria, viral fragments, and DNA/RNA fragments. And, further, our science demonstrates that these contaminants could lead to a number of slowly-developing degenerative diseases, including degenerative diseases of the brain.” http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/if-you-are-in-support-of-vaccinations/

    “- The risks of residual retinal DNA and stray viral contaminants from the animal tissues getting into flu shots are real. DNA snips are classified as either “infectious” or “oncogenic” (tumour causing) by researchers who worry that the stray DNA is being incorporated into the recipient’s DNA …”http://www.newswithviews.com/Tenpenny/sherri123.htm

    Interview with Dr. Suzanne Humphries. (Regarding contaminants from 33 minutes):

    “- DNA particles from disease matter can get into our DNA and alter us and in my opinion these vaccines are turning us into genetically modified organisms.” http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=BAE7F6323813CFAFB8338173FB11D429

    SV40 VIRUS IS PASSED THROUGH GENERATIONS

    “- many of the contaminant organisms can pass from generation to generation. For example, new studies have found that SV-40, a major contaminant of the polio vaccine until 1963, not only existed as a latent virus for the lifetime of those exposed to the vaccine but was being passed on to the next generation, primarily by way of sperm, something called vertical transmission. This means that every generation from now on will be infected with this known carcinogenic virus. There is also compelling evidence that some polio vaccines manufactured after 1963 may contain SV-40 virus. What makes the SV-40 contamination disaster of such concern is its association with so many cancers…” http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/if-you-are-in-support-of-vaccinations/

    “ – It is impossible to remove DNA contaminants from vaccines. Although weight limits for contaminating DNA were set by the FDA as far back as 1986,vaccine makers have never been able to reach that goal. The CDC decided to limit their weight recommendation to cancerous cell lines and then increase the other DNA contamination allowance one hundred-fold. However, these limits are only “recommendations” and, therefore, the FDA is unable to enforce them. Vaccine manufacturers continue to have the freedom to take scientific measures to reduce contaminants only if they wish.http://www.opednews.com/populum/diarypage.php?did=14455

    Simian virus 40 in humans

    Fernanda Martini1, Alfredo Corallini2, Veronica Balatti1, Silvia Sabbioni2, Cecilia Pancaldi1 and Mauro Tognon1*

    Corresponding author: Mauro Tognon

    Author Affiliations

    1 Department of Morphology and Embryology, Section of Cell Biology and Molecular Genetics, School of Medicine, and Center of Biotechnology, University of Ferrara, Via Fossato di Mortara, 64/B. 44100 Ferrara, Italy

    2 Department of Experimental and Diagnostic Medicine, Section of Microbiology, University of Ferrara, Via Luigi Borsari, 46. 44100 Ferrara, Italy

    To date, the prevalence of SV40 infections in humans is not known. Recent studies, based on PCR and serological techniques, indicate that SV40 infection occurs both in children and adults. (i) SV40 DNA sequences have been detected in normal and neoplastic tissues of people either too young (1 to 30 years) or too old (60 to 85 years) to have been vaccinated with SV40-contaminated anti-polio vaccines [19,33,76-81]. This finding may also explain the lack of difference in cancer incidence between individuals vaccinated with SV40-contaminated and SV40-free anti-polio vaccines [82]. (ii) SV40 sequences and Tag were detected in blood and sperm specimens from normal individuals and oncologic patients [80,81,83-88] and in lymphoblastoid cells [32]. These results suggest that (peripheral blood mononuclear cells) PBMCs, could be a reservoir and vehicle of SV40 spreading in the tissues of the host and among the individuals. (iii) SV40 sequences were found in urine and stoole samples, from children and adults [84,89,90], indicating that the haematic, sexual and orofecal routes of transmission are likely to be responsible for SV40 horizontal infection in humans.

    Read more:

    http://www.infectagentscancer.com/content/2/1/13

    Advances in Virus Research, Volume 50

    Pages 83 and 84, read. (Also see the study titled, Simian virus 40 in humans, below on this page)

    Excerpted:

    Moreover, blood and sperm fluid may represent important means for spreading of SV40 in humans.

    Indeed in these investigations, (Martini etal;, 1995,1996) 61% of the neoplastic patients positive for SV 40 sequences were of an age excluding exposure to SV 40-contaminated polio vaccines, suggesting contagious transmission of SV 40 by horizontal infection.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=PfO7D8ZoSMkC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=sv40+is+contagious&source=bl&ots=AlaWsAkp95&sig=RnycQFX2ucD-3zybHQ07FAIeJYk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kZLfT5_mA4qc2QXKz6jtCA&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sv40%20is%20contagious&f=false

    SV-40 Deadly Cure

    http://www.viewzone.com/sv40x.html

    Types of SV40 Associated Cancers:

    http://www.sv40foundation.org/Types.html

  • In their refuse to get it and seriously in denial world; it wouldn’t and surely doesn’t take much.

  • That really does not identify and/or explain much. So go ahead and define that description specifically?

    I.T teacher in Life-Long Learning Sector/Microsite Designer. I do not appreciate being used as a boogeyman behind a completely preventable plague in the making.

  • JGC

    You advanced an argument from ignorance (“how else could they be

  • What, just because you say so? Obviously most all pro-vaccine studies are funded by either the CDC and/or their minions, the medical side, or big pharma itself.

    Just take a look at a well analysis of the most well known, most highly references to, and the largest existing epidemiological studies claiming to that there is and was no population based data supporting the MMR and Thimerosal connection to autism.

    .Every one of the larger MMR, and Thimerosal epidemiolgical studies were clearly COOKED, for the results, period. Found were the use of flawed study designs, use of unrealiable data, predetermined outcomes unsupported by the data, and as well major conflicts of interest in the studies funding sources; none of them obviously being independent and/or unbiased.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    We have 16 studies already that clearly state that vaccines do not cause autism.”

    — Amy Pisani, Executive Director, Every Child By Two

    “16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these

    studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”

    — Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

    “The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine

    doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”

    — Dr. Paul Offit, “Autism’s False Prophets”

    Read more:
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    And what did they actually study in those so called and claimed to larger epidemiological, (population based), vaccine safety studies? In fact they only studied one single vaccine, the MMR; and one single vaccine ingredient, Thimerosal. None of the larger epidemiological studies compared vaccinated to entirely un-vaccinated. None of the studies looked at the safety profile of the entire CDC vaccine schedule. None of those studies as well looked at the safety profile of giving from 5 and to up to 9 vaccines or more to and infant or small child, in a single day and office visit.

    ——————

    For you people your lives surround only finding and promoting any means at all, and any form of denial. How do you live that way?

    What do you think when you see general information like this? So, who is actually in denial, crazy? You, or me?

    DOCTOR VOWS “NO MORE VACCINES” AT HIS PRACTICE AFTER ATTENDING THE AUTISMONE CONFERENCE
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/doctor-vows-no-more-vaccines-at-his-practice-after-attending-the-autismone-conference

    MEDICAL NUREMBERG FOR CDC NOW
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/medical-nuremberg-for-cdc-now

    LIONESS ARISING MOM #5:
    https://heartruth.info/2012/08/08/lioness-arising-mom-5-melissa-vega/

    Hear This Well: Breaking the Silence on Vaccine Violence 263 videos 375,308 views
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

  • Proponent

    Sonja.. guest is Danchi who hails from the (Lying) Age of Autism echo chamber.

    Just an f.y.i. here.

  • Proponent

    Incorrect, sorry.

    JGC has it right.

  • Sonja Henie

    Thanks. Why is that not surprising?

  • So quite obviously you did not even as much read or review the information in my reply, having posted your reply just seconds after I posted mine.

  • All you have to do is go back and review it to find out what was in the mix of those replies. Again, what I posted was entirely relevant.

    So you and so called Jenny Higgs rule the roost and control all conversations, and if that doesn’t happen for you, you just claim and accuse of social maladjustment, and again your level of arrogant hypocrisy continues to show up in every reply you make.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you are the only abusive bully here.

    I’ve flagged your abusive behavior specifically and you can not point out a specific quote from me that fits the definition of verbal abuse. It’s also pretty obvious that you know this as you are attempting to temper yourself. QED. :-)

    Conflicts of interest do not have to only

    Then list the other cases and I will answer as best as I can.

  • Jonathan Graham

    All you have to do is go back and review it to find out what was in the mix of those replies.

    …and if it was relevant to what Jenny and I were talking about then that would not be necessary. I would only have to review what Jenny and I said. Your inability to understand that a comment can be relevant or appropriate in one context and irrelevant and inappropriate in another context. Doesn’t make me think you’re all that well socialized. Not to mention your bullying and demanding that everyone MUST bow and scrape to whatever you’re on about.

    So you and so called Jenny Higgs rule the roost and control all conversations

    …and it’s time for the Passive-Aggressive show with our star Loooooooowelllllll Hubbs!. Think for a minute Lowell – have Jenny and/or I stated anywhere that we control all conversations? Nope. Does that have to be true for your comment to be irrelevant or inappropriate? Nope. Now go think about this for a while.

  • No, you are not even going down that sick road here with me. The evidence of your arrogant and your own arrogant and abusive behavior in your replies is more than well established here on now several articles. There is no point in and/or need to specifically re-quote it. Actually all of your reply posting is nothing but a bunch of hacked up and broken up twisted trash, and more than enough time has already been spent on rehashing your previous replies.

    Again, you know very well that there absolutely nothing you will not deny and refuse the information on. The only game you have going is to disrupt, distract, and repeatedly attempt to mock the information, and the person any person who dares to post any vaccine truth information, in front of you. Your attempts to also repeatedly badger a person over and over as to previously and obviously established fact, is as well more than evident. Again, anyone with any level of honesty can see that.

    Why don’t you do something actually productive, and get to explaining directly why this doctor is wrong in his said decision? That should be another, good one.

    DOCTOR VOWS “NO MORE VACCINES” AT HIS PRACTICE AFTER ATTENDING THE AUTISMONE CONFERENCE
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/doctor-vows-no-more-vaccines-at-his-practice-after-attending-the-autismone-conference

    No More Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine
    http://www.csfmed.net/no-more-vaccines-at-cool-springs-family-medicine/

    MEDICAL NUREMBERG FOR CDC NOW
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/medical-nuremberg-for-cdc-now

    LIONESS ARISING MOM #5:
    https://heartruth.info/2012/08/08/lioness-arising-mom-5-melissa-vega/

    Hear This Well: Breaking the Silence on Vaccine Violence 263 videos 375,308 views
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

  • So now just because you do not word for word state it specifically, then it just can not be true, and a fact? So nothing can be determined as true unless it is stated directly and admitted to? What kind of low level of denial and complete madness, is that? Obviously your thought process is so twisted that you can not even comprehend the terms and/or application of the concept of being irrelevant or inappropriate? You simply think that you can accuse it and apply it to any situation that you need to throw a reply at, and that simply is not working for you.

    You as well simply do not comprehend that you are not the moderator of this articles site, and that you actually dictate and control absolutely nothing at all, and as to what anyone reply posts with.

  • JGC

    Who funded the studies I cited, Lowell?

    Support your claim that every single major thimersosal study was “clearly cooked”, by identifying specific methodological errors. I suggest you start with Hviid et al 2003.

  • Proponent

    Oh, I read and reviewed your post, Lowell Hubbs.

    Twice, in fact.

    I read and comprehend material much, much quicker than you. And why? You may ask?

    It should be obvious to you by now.. vaccines..

    Applied Economics | “The effect of vaccination on children’s physical and cognitive development in the Philippines”

    “We use data from the Cebu Longitudinal Health and Nutrition Survey (CLHNS) in the Philippines to link vaccination in the first 2 years of life with later physical and cognitive development in children. We use propensity score matching to estimate the causal effect of vaccination on child development. We find no effect of vaccination on later height or weight, but full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations. The size of the effect is large, raising test scores, on average, by about half an SD.”

  • You simply refuse to get it. These studies show directly the benefits of not vaccinating, and in regard to the health benefits of natural immunity. Just because the word vaccination was not used in a particular study, certainly does not invalidate the obvious direct or indirect findings of and what can be honestly determined from and concluded from the study.

    Now just go and hack that reply into pulled from it sentences, and create another twisted mess filled with nothing but nonsense. I can not even imagine what it must be like to live within a twisted and in denial mind like yours.

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, you are not even going down that sick road here with me.

    The road of evidence? Isn’t that strange that you can’t produce any? Also constantly calling someone sick or referencing their ideas as sick is pretty abusive.

    There is no point in and/or need to specifically re-quote it.

    It seems pretty obvious that this is just a defense mechanism. Someone calls you out on being X. Your response: “No YOU’RE X”.

    I’ll also point out that you can’t seem to disclose what a conflict of interest is other than the things I’ve pointed out.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you can not even comprehend the terms and/or application of the concept of being irrelevant or inappropriate?

    I do understand that in order for your response to relate to something you have to reference an entirely different discussion. Then that’s well within the definition of irrelevant (to the discussion at hand).

    You as well simply do not comprehend that you are not the moderator of this articles site,

    I understand this. However you seem incapable of understanding that what I’ve said is true even though I am not the moderator. :-) Again we welcome your comments ABOUT the topic we are discussing – research formats. Irrelevant (to our discussion) topics are more welcome elsewhere this makes it inappropriate to claim that we – who are discussing something else – are “missing the point”.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You simply refuse to get it.

    No I simply refuse to make an unwarranted assumption. If your standard of evidence is that low – go right ahead but it’s unreasonable to demand that of everyone and of course your bullying on the subject is as always inappropriate.

    Just because the word vaccination was not used in a particular study

    Vaccination WAS discussed in that study – I thought you read these things? – In particular it said:

    Future studies will need to account for the potential impact of the VZV vaccine, which was licensed in 1995 in the U.S. for use among children [2] (and therefore cannot be evaluated in the older population of the GICC).

    Clearly the study did not and could not draw any conclusions about vaccinated individuals.

    If you can show me a study which compares for the same outcome (gliomas) a vaccinated population with a population that got sick. Then I’ll be happy to consider it.

  • I watched you post your initial reply within 30 seconds to one minute at the most, and after I made my reply.

    If you actually read and reviewed my reply, then why can you not respond to the said and linked to analysis of those well known epidemiological studies, and which show major conflicts of interest in and as to most all the studies funding sources? You asked for the evidence of that. There it is.

    So are you saying that studies can be found in those journals that are funded by sources with obvious conflicts of interest, but yet the journals themselves are no influenced by any form of financial conflict of interest? And would you actually expect any thinking human being, to believe that?

    And further you post this study, which has absolutely nothing to do with the conflicts of interest subject matter in regard to studies and journals, that we were talking about.

    A study that claims, that full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations.

    Did you even realize what kind of test scores they were working with? They prove nothing in regard their misleading summary of the outcome.

    Did you actually even read this ridiculous study? In fact this study is so bad that I do not even find it listed in Pubmed, do you?

    The Effect of Vaccination on Children’s

    Physical and Cognitive Development in the Philippines

    IV. Results

    Table 2 shows the results of a probit analysis to find the determinants of full vacciantion

    by age two. In this analysis we compare those with no vaccinations (vaccination dummy = 0) with those that have all six vaccinations (vaccination dummy = 1). The regression includes 33
    village dummies whose coefficients are not reported (but are jointly significant) to control for community level differences in access to vaccination. The regression drops villages in which no children had any vaccinations (since there is no variation in the outcome), which leaves only 413 observations. We find evidence of a positive association between vaccination and socioeconomic status, with children living in larger homes, and with private or public access to a toilet, fewer siblings,

    9 and better educated and better nourished mothers being more likely to be vaccinated.

    (And on and on it goes with even more mindless junk science. In fact this study is not any form of science at all, but a complete misrepresentation)

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/program-on-the-global-demography-of-aging/WorkingPapers/2011/PGDA_WP_69.pdf

  • There obviously is nothing low about that standard of evidence. In use of the term vaccine I was referring to the vaccines on the CDC childhood schedule, not the immunotherapy used in cancer treatment; which is sometimes referred to a a vaccine but is obviously a different form.No one said the studies had anything to do with any directly studied vaccinated verses un-vaccinated outcome. You know there is no such study. Obviously the study did look at varicella un-vaccinated individuals indirectly, as that is the only way there could have been a group to study in regard to the benefits of natural varicella immunity, and in regard to the development of brain cancer. .

    Again just because in your narrow mind that such a study had not the directive and the word and terms vaccine or vaccines in it, does not means the conclusion is not and should not be obvious obvious to anyone with an honest and diligently thinking mind. The same kind of evidence obviously shows as well for more than one vaccine.

  • The only person that is a master of being irrelevant and inappropriate is you, and no matter how much and how big the load of BS is that you have to twist up and dump on it, and to make denial of it all.

    Why don’t you move on to something more productive, instead of only making more attempts at nothing more than distraction and disruption from any form of an honest and real debate on these vaccine issues?

    I think this doctor made a very wise choice and it is one that many more doctors need to decide to make. What do you think about, that?

    No More Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine

    We will no longer be administering Vaccines at Cool Springs Family Medicine (CSFM).

    How come?

    1. Because they can cause Autism – yes, I’ve had 15 years’ experience in taking care of ASD kids, that’s a lot of vaccine injury stories from moms. Don’t tell me that they are making it up or they are just reaching for an explanation, or that it was a coincidence or that they are just too stressed, or that they are uninformed. All of those arguments are stupid.

    Don’t quote the single study by the CDC that shows that MMR is not linked to Autism. One of the authors of that paper, Dr. Thompson, said that the data was falsified and the study manipulated. So, with this information and the lack of studies that prove the safety of combined vaccines, I can do no harm, so I’m out.

    2. Polysorbate 80, Aluminum, formaldehyde, animal DNA with viruses, and many other ingredients in vaccines, are not good to inject into babies. Think of cancer, and autoimmune disease.

    3. Epigenetics is a new science that explains exactly why, not every child is going to react the same way to vaccines, and sacrificing the few, for the many is not acceptable. Actually, if you understand the science, which many mothers with vaccine inured children do, you can see that it is actually many are at risk and are asked to be sacrificed for the few.

    4. We can do better. Right now, it is a whole lot cheaper to propagate a multi-million dollar campaign to promote vaccines and hide behind the vaccine injury protection act, than it is to develop a safe vaccine program.

    5. Gardasil? Are you kidding me? It is not safe. Just read the package insert and if you are still not convinced, those that developed cervical cancer or neuroimmune disorders or other complications from the vaccine would be glad to talk to you.

    6. Vaccine development began in earnest in the 1930’s. Genetics, Epigenetics, the role of environmental toxins on the immune system, is much more recent than that. Guess what? We know a lot more now. Isn’t it time to incorporate that knowledge into the development of safe vaccines?

    7. Dr. Andew Wakefield’s research was properly defended and vindicated 4 years ago. The Lancet paper stands: There is a link between the MMR vaccine and Autism.

    8. The argument that we will be thrust into the dark ages if we suspend the vaccine program is nonsense. There are many arguments against this, but, to make it simple, we are in the dark ages. We have a plague of autoimmune diseases including Autism. There is a plaque of Acquired Immune Dysfunction (ring a bell?).

    Listen, I know I have been a little tongue and cheek about this, but really, I could wax on for a long time on any one of the 8 points that I brought up, and I’m sure I could list a lot more. I am not going to do that in cyperspace, I am not going to engage in internet battles, but, just as I have always done, as is my responsibility as a Family Physician, I will be an advocate for each of my patients as best as I know how. Also, I will always continue to respect the informed choices my patients make.

    http://www.csfmed.net/no-more-vaccines-at-cool-springs-family-medicine/

    Doctor vowes “No More Vaccines” after attending AutismOne conference
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/doctor-vows-no-more-vaccines-at-his-practice-after-attending-the-autismone-conference

    MEDICAL NUREMBERG FOR CDC NOW
    http://www.jeffereyjaxen.com/blog/medical-nuremberg-for-cdc-now

    Hear This Well: Breaking the Silence on Vaccine Violence 263 videos 375,308 views
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

  • I said enough time has been spent arguing over your past replies, and what they contain. Move on to something more productive than that, or just leave.

    And then you just post more of your twisted X response nonsense, and when you and most all of the shills have clearly used that said response. There is no end to your hypocrisy.

    So as long as you can attempt to claim that I can’t seem to disclose what a conflict of interest is, then there is no reason to believe that you have not disclosed the ones that you have.

    That is actually a low level of twisted in denial insanity, not ever seen before.

  • Appears to be Harvard, and so what? That does not give any study automatic validity.

    I suggest that in regard to those said Thimerosal based epidemiological studies, that you quit ignoring my previous reply post and actually read that well done analysis. Then go ahead and form a reply in which you can refute the said analysis findings.

    You don’t get to answer a reply with reference material in it, with a diversion to Harvard information, and that you as well can not even directly reference, and with a link. If the Harvard info on Thimerosal is as good as the previous Harvard based junk science study that you posted, it should be a real doozie? Is it a similar study to the one that Pediatrics promoted in the claim that injecting Thimerosal also helped the outcome of their test scores? What kind of mad scientists are they employing?

    Here you go. Get to it.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?
    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

  • […you know this as you are attempting to temper yourself. QED. :-) ]

    You truly are insane. You are done answering to anything that is a previous reply post, and as you have already had more than enough time to repeatedly reply to those; and to reply to your own obvious insanity. Not playing your twisted, sick, and repeated game; so move on.

  • Jonathan Graham

    There obviously is nothing low about that standard of evidence.

    You’re obviously wrong. You need to study the population you wish to draw a conclusion about.

    Again just because in your narrow mind that such a study had not the directive and the word and terms vaccine or vaccines in it,

    Again It does mention vaccination, I quoted the spot.

    does not means the conclusion

    More correctly it’s not the studies conclusion it repudiates that specifically – this is your made-up conclusion. Which is not supported by this particular study.

    You know there is no such study.

    Then all your evidence is weak. Great!

  • Jonathan Graham

    Glad to see you’ve run out of excuses and get that your comment was irrelevant to what Jenny and I were discussing. :-)

  • JGC

    What conflicts of interest does Harvard University have with respect to the study funded? Be specific.

    As to your suggestion, I suggest that man up and indicate exactly in what way then Hviid 2003 study results were ‘clearly cooked’, or admit that you cannot.

    As to your list of 16 studies, first note that as they all address MMR vaccine which as a live attenuated virus vaccine does not now and never has contained thimerosal are irrelevant to the claim you’ve been asked to defend.

    Second, note that any author who cites Yazbak as if he possessed any credibility as a scientist or integrity as a human being is too far removed from reality to be taken seriously. The man has made a cottage industry of trying to help child abusers avoid the consequences of their actions.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I said enough time has been spent arguing over your past replies

    Just in time for you to run away from your bogus accusations.

    As usual, I’m happy to comply to any reasonable request for disclosure of a conflict of interest that you can state in a way that is clear and unambiguous to me.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not playing your twisted, sick, and repeated game; so move on.

    I knew you couldn’t hold on for long. So it’s back to you playing the abuser.

  • eggman2

    I am returning after a refreshing bout of telling-it-like-it-is in another useless and possibly prostituted to the medical mafia ( like Mother Jones ) website of the publication Epoch Times. Now I am banned ( Censored is a better word. ) from that stupid publication.

    It has been proved in the anthropological field that diet alone offers immunity from infections. Watch ” In Defense of Food ” on PBS. But if at any rate one gets infected from following a diet of fried food and low on organic fruits and vegetables, it is a million times better to suffer a little infection than to submit oneself to the pollution of the blood with a stupid vaccine.

  • Does your twisted level of sickness ever end? In your hypocrisy you should know that you are actually the abuser. I am here to simply debate the issues and to provide vaccine truth information. Rehashing every post here to determine that to be the case, and copying and pasting your replies from multiple posts, will only end up being a further non productive distraction and disruption and away from anything at all productive in regard to the content of this article and its intended purpose. That is exactly what you want and more of that same distraction and disruption.

    You know that you would only further ignore and deny all of it, and while only creating dozens more of your taken out of context, bits and pieces of replies, with cut and hacked sentences in them; and all of it would go no where, and as always. Its not happening and it is not even going to be allowed to get started. You do enough of that already. .

  • eggman2

    Lowell, thanks a lot for your extensive research of information.

  • eggman2

    All of those causes of deaths , with the possible exception of accidents, are caused by malnutrition and pollution ( which is malnutrition induced by the environment or modern medicine [ like in vaccines ] ). Yet, if you are driving and suffer a black out because of your malnourished brain, then your accident was caused by malnutrition , too.

    At any rate , when one speaks of complications it should come to mind malnutrition. That is even more so in stupid little infections that should not last more than a few days.

  • Proponent

    Lowell Hubbs: “(And on and on it goes with even more mindless junk science. In fact this study is not any form of science at all, but a complete misrepresentation)”

    How exactly is this ‘mindless junk science’?

    How exactly is this a ‘complete misrepresentation’?

    Be specific.. and do try to stay on topic.

    If that’s at all possible.

  • eggman2

    I thought that you propaganda prostitutes didn’t insult people. At least that is what you hypocritically made the idiots at Epoch Times believe.

  • eggman2

    Insulting again ! You were acting like a pussycat in Epoch Times. Over there you were acting like poor me, and you are such a nasty man eggman2.

    It shows that people like you are just hypocritical psychopathic propaganda prostitutes working for ” the junk medicine robber barons ” ( the makers of vaccines and other junk medicines ).

  • eggman2

    Ooh cursing ,too! What a hypocrite!

  • eggman2

    Sarcasm, too, go on.

  • Your welcome. I do what I can.

  • Your reply amounts to again nothing but repeat harassment, and you do know that. What was it you said again about your intent of in posting, to be only promoted mockery?

    The abuser is and always will be you, and as well as to the abuse of your privilege to reply post here in any form of debate, and in true diligence and honesty. Your persistent level of hypocrisy can and will do nothing to cover that up.

  • I as well already know who you are, or at least who you are connected to, and why. Of course this is not the place to disclose or to provide that information, as as it is a private issue unrelated to vaccines.

  • In my previous post I was as specific as it needs to be. You can read that study and as well as any readers can read that study and determine for themselves if I am correct. As said, i have already provided all that I needed to. You need to get realization of and an education on what is real and independent science is. If you are that ignorant issue, then obviously nothing I could additionally put forth can or would ever place you in the right direction. You do not care what the truth is, and if you want to ignore real studies and continue to promote only the irrelevant junk science that supports the pro-vaccine agenda, then that is your problem.

  • I do not even need to show or prove that Harvard has a conflict of interest, and i could care less. The study in itself is obviously nothing but misleading junk science. I am amazed that Harvard even allowed such obviously mindless drivel in the form of a study, to be published under their name.Why don’t you man up and face how foolish you look to even have referenced to that study.

    If you actually reviewed that said analysis of the studies you would have realized that not only does it review and make an analysis of the considered as top MMR epidemiological studies, but as well the Thimerosal related studies. Just face it and admit it, you actually never read any of those studies and/or the said analysis of those studies. No one ever said the MMR vaccine contained Thimerosal, Doofus,.There are two setts of analysis, one covers the MMR realted studies and the other section the Thimerosal studies. You have you mind far to stuck in that failed shill book, debating manual. It is a common mistake that inexperienced shills make, and that shows directly that you know nothing about what you are talking about.

    So additionally all you have there is an half cocked attempt at the false discreditation of Yazbak. And where did my said study analysis reference to him? He never defended child abusers, and you are defending vaccinator’s that have killed children as result of the side effects of vaccines. Vaccinating killers that do not even realize what they have done; and worse yet many do not even care what the truth is; and they must deny it. Here again you know nothing of the real independent science and the existing data.

    There are some references as well to him (Yazbak) and his work in this very informative selection of information.

    Falsely Accused Shaken Baby Syndrome, (and vaccine caused SIDS)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/falsely-accused-shaken-baby-syndrome.html

  • That again is only more false harassment and badgering. Again, what I posted was entirely relevant, and you just simply refuse to get it.

  • Again, it mentions immunotherapy which is sometimes called a vaccine, It does not mention vaccines as given on the CDC schedule, and that was acknowledged. And your point is? Your point is that you do not have a point at all, and you just keep babbling on with your keyboard, and to argue about nothing, and just to argue.

    Your bits and pieces of sentences all hacked and wacked together and trying to reply to them, amounts to nothing but a promotion of your own ignorance, and only more of your own mindless madness, complete with more endless nonsense. Again, start replying directly to a reply and specifically to the whole reply that is made.

  • Here is some more data and which the first study in 2000 determined modern medicine and its protocols to be the third leading cause of death in the US. That study was originally published in the AMA Journal, by Barbara Starfield. The second study in 2003 took that same data and re-looked at it, and with additional available data. The second study findings determined by the numbers that modern medicine was the first leading cause of death in the US, and that over the numbers of cancer and heart disease deaths. The number was just under 1 million deaths per year, and common sense should tell us that-that is a low estimate, as many such deaths are often covered up and hidden.

    Death By Medicine
    http://www.vacfacts.info/death-by-medicine.html

  • I think I came somewhere in the same vague general field by pointing out how all debates work.

  • Yeh. Same here.

    If Lowell lists the conflict of interests, I will gladly answer them – however, I can only give my own information away.

  • guest

    Data from the CDC means what?

    -My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998. I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.
    -CDC Whistleblower Dr. Thompson on Thimerosal and Pregnant Women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EK4ZE-SPIc

    -Whistleblower Thompson’s Call to Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8697rSvIqhg

    ****Dr. William Thompson chose to release his public statement less than one day after Natural News published the second in a series of once-secret emails between Dr. Thompson and his CDC colleagues.

    The release of those emails may have been pivotal in Dr. Thompson’s choice to go public with his own statement. The vaccine establishment, which immediately and predictably accused Natural News of fabricating the two emails, is now backpedaling as rapidly as possible with the full knowledge that Dr. Thompson’s public statement affirms and supports the authenticity of those emails. Natural News, in other words, was instrumental in breaking this historical story about medical fraud at the highest levels of the CDC. (Credit is also due to many other independent media organizations and alternative journalists who pounded this story from day one.)

    Those two emails are available here:
    October 18, 2002 letter to Melinda Wharton, Coleen Boyle and others, where William Thompson announces he is hiring his own lawyer and impliesa CDC cover-up of a D.O.J. investigation:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/images/CDC-DOJ-Investigation-MMR-Vaccine-Autism-NN-Watermark.jpg

    Dear Melinda, I am writing once more regarding the recent Department of Justice (DOJ) request for a broad range of documents associated with MMR, thinners, and Autism. I first spoke with you on September 3rd of 2002 regarding the sensitive results we have been struggling within in the MADDSP
    MMR/Autism Study. I have also tried to bring your attention to some potentially sensitive legal issues surrounding what documents we should provide for his study. We have subsequently been told by both Beverly Dozier and Kevin Malone that we should apply na very broad definition to the documents that we provide to the DOJ.

    February 2nd, 2004 letter to Dr. Julie Gerberding:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/images/CDC-Gerberding-warning-vaccines-autism.JPG.

    -Former Merck scientists file suit against Merck under False Claims Act:

    A formal complaint was filed in the Eastern Pennsylvania Federal District Court accusing Merck of a longstanding scheme to mislead and defraud Government health authorities worldwide. Two of Merck’s former employees have accused the pharmaceutical giant of marketing multivalent
    MMR vaccines under false pretenses. According to the complaint, these vaccines have been mislabeled, misbranded, adulterated and falsely certified as having a 95% efficacy rate.

    Court documents filed for the mumps component of their multivalent MMR vaccines.

    The former Merck virologists contend that the multivalent mumps component has a vastly reduced efficacy which is directly responsible for mumps outbreaks during the last decade which prompted international calls for MMR booster shots every 4 – 8 years. Two Merck virologists meticulously detail how Merck ostensibly manipulated test results for decades in order to create a false 95% efficacy rate

    Virologists Stephen Krahling and Joan Wlochowski describe how Merck had to recertify the mumps component in 2000, in order to comply with regulatory requirements in order for the mumps component to be included in two new multivalent MMR vaccines. The usual test, which had certified the mumps component’s efficacy in the 60’s, failed when used in 2000. They claim the results were so low Merck decided to change its own test protocol by testing the vaccine against the weakened mumps vaccine virus instead of the wild (naturally circulating) mumps virus.

    When that modification didn’t result in the desired 95% efficacy figure, Merck’s executive directors of vaccine research, Drs Alan Shaw and Emilio Emini, instructed Drs David Krah and Mary Yagodich to implement a vast array of modifications to testing procedures3, then, allegedly pressured both Krahling and Wlochowski to participate.

    When these modifications also failed to demonstrate the desired 95% efficacy rate, it is alleged that Drs Shaw and Emini instructed Drs Krah and Yagovich to abandon “gold standard” testing, and implement a new procedure, supposedly with the agreement of FDA, which included adding animal antibodies to human blood samples taken both pre and post vaccination.

    By combining the very low levels of human antibodies with animal antibodies, a much higher total level of virus neutralization was obtained than could occur from human antibodies alone. The human
    antibody levels alone would never protect in the real world against wild mumps. But after adding animal antibodies, the human blood samples which had previously failed under the old “gold standard” testing were retested using the “enhanced” protocols and passed with flying colors. New ‘enhanced’ tests showed 100% efficacy, not against wild mumps virus,but against the mumps vaccine virus.

    However, combining the animal and human antibodies led to a new problem. In some of the tests more than 80% of pre-vaccine blood samples now showed up as immune. Usually, the highest number of pre-vaccine immune results any scientist could expect is 10%. Further manipulations of the animal antibody levels failed to bring the pre-vaccine blood test results down to the expected 10% levels.

    According to the complaint, Merck then implemented additional ‘creative’ strategies to show a lack of seroconversion in immune samplesin an attempt to reduce the pre-vax level to the expected 10% because had the FDA seen the high numbers of “immune” pre-vaccine samples they would have easily detected the fraudulent test procedures.

    Krahling and Wlochowski worked with the same team conducting these tests, but were outraged at what they deemed to be gross scientific deception and fraudulent practices.

    When Drs Krahling and Wlochowski attempted to stop what they saw as, “wholesale fabrication of test data to reach its preordained 95% efficacy threshold,” Merck allegedly made various attempts to prevent them, including threatening to jail Dr. Krahling should he inform the FDA.

    Despite these efforts, Dr Krahling made numerous calls to FDA. These calls remained unanswered until Dr. Krahling reported to the FDA that Dr. Krah had removed and/or destroyed Dr. Krahling’s evidence.

    An FDA agent then came and interviewed Dr. Krah, who apparently told the agent whatever was necessary to allay their concerns. The agent made no attempt to interview any other personnel, check any facilities, laboratory notebooks, or samples to corroborate what had been reported to them.

    The lawsuit claims that to this day, Merck has consistently misrepresented the potency by simply quoting the 40 year old data from the pre-MMR monovalent mumps vaccine, thereby misrepresenting the efficacy of four multivalent vaccines: MMR, MMRII, Europe’s MMRvaxpro, and ProQuad, which is MMR plus chickenpox.

    According to the two whistleblowers, not only have all the multivalent MMR vaccines been sold under false pretenses, but, as a result of this LACK OF EFFICACY, there have been numerous mumps
    outbreaks worldwide prompting calls for regular MMR boosters throughout life. These mumps outbreaks were predicted by Merck’s Dr Krah in 2001, yet Merck allegedly ‘willfully’ withheld this information from multiple governments while consistently claiming there was no need for a new mumps component.

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
    United States of America ex rel., Stephen A Krahling and Joan A Wlochowski, AMENDED

    COMPLAINT FOR Plaintiffs, VIOLATIONS OF THE FEDERAL FALSE CLAIMS

    ACT FILED Merck & Co.inc . Defendant
    http://sanevax(dot)org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Merck-mumps-suit.pdf

    COURTHOUSE NEWS SERVICE:
    Class Says Merck Lied About Mumps Vaccine By REUBEN KRAMER
    http://www.courthousenews(dot)com/2012/06/27/47851.htm

    *****Chatom Primary Care sues Merck for Sherman Act monopolization, breach of warranty, violation of consumer protection laws.
    The lawsuit record is available here:

    http://www.naturalnews(dot)com/gallery/documents/Chatom-Lawsuit-Merck-Mumps.pdf.

    -Scientific Review of Vaccine Safety Datalink Information June 7-8, 2000 Si
    mpsonwood Retreat Center Norcross, Georgia. http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/2.9.pdf

  • guest

    Sonja & Proponent -twin trolls.

    Folie à deux

  • guest

    Psychotic stalking troll.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Does your twisted level of sickness ever end?

    Sorry I’m just going to halt you there. Your speech there is disrespectful, abusive and likely against the Disqus ToS. Quit it.

    That said, I do get that much of your social interaction is designed to avoid communication. Refusal to clarify, refusal to be corrected and of course being offensive. Were I to guess this is deliberate because it allows you to protect your position. If you’re so awful that nobody talks to you then nobody can disprove your point.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Standing up and pointing out your disrespectful, abusive behavior which is against the ToS is not harassing you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yawn, again I am happy to respond to any reasonable request for disclosure of a conflict of interest tat you can state in a way that is clear, specific and unambiguous to me.

    already know who you are, or at least who you are connected to, and why.

    It should be easy then to define what – other than what I have specified -is a conflict of interest. However that is conspicuously absent. So this is just another way of stalling the conversation. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    Standing up and telling you politely that your comment was irrelevant. Is not harassment. You broke into the conversation between Jenny and I remember?

  • #HearThisWell:

    Autistic people do not appreciate being told you prefer a literal plague to them.

    That tag was to do with Autistic Rights originally.

  • I think parents lying about vaccine injuries is funny.

    —Gadad et al. (2015) showed no difference in autism rates in rhesus monkeys based on vaccination, and their brains were dissected just to make certain. Also, this study was funded by anti-vaccine groups

  • No, you plonker.

    They don’t bypass the body’s delicate defense system – that would defeat the point.

    I know what’s in vaccines – I also know WHY they are there and exactly what happens if you don’t have x ingredient in there.

  • You do realize that makes it worse?

    Because it means you are deliberately lying to us.

  • The first is perfectly clear – I design microsites and I teach I.T. in the LLS – in other words, post-compulsory and not at university.

    The second – easy. When you claim that vaccines are dangerous because they cause autism – you are telling people that autistic people are worse than a literal plague and you need all of the spectrum to get the epidemic figures.

  • Jonathan Graham

    it mentions immunotherapy

    From the study

    Prior to the licensing of the live attenuated VZV vaccine in the 1990s,

    and

    Future studies will need to account for the potential impact of the VZV vaccine, which was licensed in 1995 in the U.S. for use among children/

    Study authors can draw no conclusion about the VZV vaccine. :-)

    And your point is?

    Well thought out – try it sometimes. In summary: this study says nothing about VZV vaccination – it only looks at the ill and those who were not ill. Not one VZV vaccinated person was tested. Hence making up a correlation between VZV vaccinated and unvaccinated folk is exactly that – a fabrication. Given that there’s probably more variability between wildtype varicella and vaccine strain varicella. It’s far, far more reasonable to believe the opposite – that VZV vaccination with confer protection.

    The study also does not have a strong effect size and it has a wide confidence interval. At 95% the OR does not include 1.0 but at 99% it probably would. Does that mean the study is wrong – not necessarily but it’s not very strong evidence for the effect reported.

    your own mindless madness, complete with more endless nonsense.

    Abusive – reported.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yes, why wouldn’t I want to disclose anything like that?

  • JGC

    “I do not even need to show or prove that Harvard has a conflict of interest, and i could care less.”

    Only if you also don’t care that your claims regarding conflicts of interest and bias by scientific journals lack any and all credibility.

    “The study in itself is obviously nothing but misleading junk science.”
    Explain for me exactly how the Hviid 2003 study represents junk science–if it really is, as you claim, “obvious” it should be a trivial task.

    And as the adoptive parent of a child who has been left permanently disabled as the result of an assault at years of age that included shaking (leaving her legally blind) I’ll thank you not to discuss Yazbak and his utterly baseless pseudoscientific excuses for child abusers with me further.

  • Sonja Henie

    You’re a piece of work. First you complain that the data in the article supposedly contradicts the CDC. When I give a list of references that includes not one but SEVEN references from the CDC, you complain about the CDC! Obviously, you are not interested in having a conversation.
    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/vactruth/why_the_chicken_pox_vaccine_makes_no_sense/#comment-2706383988

  • pHarma

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/120430481/CDC-MMRV-Vaccine-Data-Safety-Link-Slides shows how few countries use Chicken Pox Vaccine, and data on the Febrile Seizure increase associated with this vaccine.

  • pHarma

    Was the potential reduction in brain cancer risk from experiencing a childhood Chicken pox infection calculated into the risk / benefit ratio? http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-03-history-chicken-pox-brain-cancer.html
    “In one of the largest studies to date, an international consortium led by researcher in the Dan L Duncan Comprehensive Cancer Center at Baylor College of Medicine reported an inverse relationship between a history of chicken pox and glioma, a type of brain cancer, meaning that children who have had the chicken pox may be less likely to develop brain cancer.
    The Baylor team led by Dr. Melissa Bondy, a McNair Scholar and associate director for cancer prevention and population sciences at Baylor, and Dr. E. Susan Amirian, assistant professor in the Duncan Cancer Center at Baylor, reported their results in the journal Cancer Medicine.
    In the study, the team reviewed information from the Glioma International Case-Control Study is a large, multi-site consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries.
    They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.
    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

  • Mike Stevens

    I appreciate it anyhow, sonja.
    I doubt any antivaxer will. They hate being proved wrong.

  • Mike Stevens

    So what’s the outcome of the Merck case?
    Who won?

  • So?

    You should be looking at incidence.

  • Sonja Henie

    Thanks, Mike!

  • AutismDadd

    How about we spell it out slowly for them? VACCINE ADVERSE EVENT REPORTING SYSTEM Now that’s an odd name for a reporting system that doesn’t collect information on vaccine adverse events. Is there a logical reason someone would think it represents the opposite?

  • AutismDadd

    In other words they don’t give a damn. They can’t be bothered to investigate because they have the same attitude you have Mike, what’s a few dead and maimed children in the grand scheme of the Vaccine Program? And investigation might provide what Mike? How about EVIDENCE. Nope can have evidence at VAERS.

  • AutismDadd

    And who in their right mind can read that and applaud? What wishy washy rubbish. VAERS is a toothless, powerless and useless entity, exactly how is was meant to be.

  • AutismDadd

    Prove they use that info to reduce risks. Are you claiming you have proof they react and change vaccines or schedules? I highly doubt that.

  • AutismDadd

    No need to defend yourself to these pro-vac dirt bags. No of them present any valid arguments, just the same old.

  • AutismDadd

    And your tactic of providing nothing? Your Mom must be proud.

  • AutismDadd

    Whoa lurkers are about. Katia is hiding under the bed again. So an association between a vaccine and 7 deaths isn’t an association? Not a philosophy major are you?

  • AutismDadd

    Must be vaccinated for it then. Did the report to VAERS so it could be ignored?

  • AutismDadd

    So 2nd case after vaccination. CHECK

  • JGC

    What exactly does the CDC have to lose? Be specific

  • JGC

    My son has had natural chicken pox three times, Lowell

  • Sonja Henie

    No, AD. They didn’t get vaccinated because they had the disease.

  • Sonja Henie

    You don’t get it, do you? You’re the one who doesn’t understand philosophy, or English, either for that matter!

  • Well, Lowell, if it’s so obvious – this should be a trivial enough task.

    Present the Point – in this case, “Jonathan is showing symptoms of xyz mental disorder.” Then present the evidence – the DSM-IV mental disorder (just be sure to understand the difference between mental and IDDD first) and the relevant quotes from Jon. Then explain how the relevant quotes map to the relevant symptoms.

    Get on with it if it’s so blatant.

  • Right. Now, how does that compare to Natural Immunity from Chicken Pox?

  • Jonathan Graham

    …and of course this is the crux of the problem with communication with a lot of the vaccine critical folk here. Ask them a few pointed questions and they either ignore you, insult you or attempt to distract you.

    It’s weird. It’s like arguing with someone from high-school.

  • onyormark

    Really? Why should anyone appreciate a lengthy copy ‘n paste posting that proves nothing? LOL

  • And I bet you made that up. How old is your son, and was he vaccinated? If vaccinated surely that could happen, but would be rare. Its easy to say anything you want, and with no requirement of verification.

  • Are you actually that ignorant?

    Here is an example of just one of many issues. And read on, you are not done yet.

    Here is another issue that they have. If Gardasil is EVER FDA recalled, and AFTER all their LIES that Gardasil is still found to be safe, they go directly under the GUN as to what they knew and when they knew it. Just like as to all vaccines, the CDC and FDA have all along known what was happening, and chose not to admit to it. A large spot light put on Gardasil, and as it will be if recalled, will then bring into the spotlight the contamination issues with all vaccines, and as well the safety.

    So as to you that have not independently researched this; do you actually think that vaccines are, and that they have been proven through all of the needed and clinical trial studies, to be safe and effective? If that is what you were told, and if that is what you assume to be true; keep reading.

    Here is your perfect example of how badly they are misinforming the standard medical model community, and as well the public. They are entirely lying about vaccine safety. Doctors and Pediatricians as well have no choice but to simply assume that what they were told and fed for information, was correct. Even if what that resulted in was the one of most criminal acts as to assumed vaccine safety and effectiveness, that you could ever imagine

    Gardasil-The Flagship Example of the Failure of Vaccine Authorities to Regulate and Assure Vaccine Safety-“HPV Vaccine Has Done This to My Child” ” I am NOT just another coincidence”
    http://www.vacfacts.info/gardasil-the-flagship-example-of-the-failure-of-vaccine-authorities-to-regulate-and-assure-vaccine-safety.html

    Big pharma and their regulating minions feel that they have it all locked in. They can not be sued for vaccine injury and/or resulting death, and now since 1987; and nor any vaccine provider be sued.

    Here is their impending problem. They know that if they were EVER to have to and/or if they are forced to remove Gardasil from the market and the shelves; that their foundations and their walls of actually what exists as false credibility at both the CDC and FDA, will begin crumble. In fact their entire multiple vaccine program at the CDC will then obviously come under fire, and also a major spotlight as to vaccine safety. They know that this vaccine safety issue is so currently so on the fence, volatile; that they simply can not afford to let that said and needed FDA recall, happen.

    If Gardasil is ever recalled for vaccine HPV DNA contamination issues, and as well in regard to that contamination being found as well firmly attached to the alumium adjuvant, and that never leaves the body; what do you think will happen in regard to the also known unresolved contamination issues in regard to now almost all other vaccines.

    Vaccine Contamination
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-contamination.html

    Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)
    http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html

    Dr. Andrew Moulden: Learning to Identify Vaccine Damage
    http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/dr-andrew-moulden-learning-to-identify-vaccine-damage/

    If the newly FDA approved Gardasil 9, as well comes off the market for vaccine contamination safety issues; their vaccines are proven safe credibility game, is and obviously will be additional peril. The reasons that the Gardasil vaccine should and eventually and inevitably will come off the market, (are much of it outlined below).

    That outcome will only happen after enough vaccine unrecovered from injury harm and death has been witnessed. It simply has to be inevitable, and at some point. To think not, is to deny that they will ever draw a line as to this destruction of human health, anywhere at all. Look what it took for Mercks, Vioxx to finally come off the pharma shelves? In this case with Gardasil, no one can be directly sued; and that makes it realistically even far more dangerous than Vioxx ever was.

    Gone After Gardasil: Jasmine – New Zealand – Memorial To And For The HPV Vaccine Victims

    http://sanevax.org/gone-after-gardasil-jasmine-new-zealand/

    MEMORIAL

    Those who have died following Gardasil vaccination

    http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

    HPV VACCINE VAERS REPORTS UP TO AUG 2015

    Description Total

    Disabled 1,362

    Deaths 232

    Did Not Recover 7,912

    Abnormal Pap Smear 602

    Cervical Dysplasia 268

    Cervical Cancer 104

    Life Threatening 701

    Emergency Room 12,749

    Hospitalized 4,094

    Extended Hospital Stay 273

    Serious 5,532

    Total Adverse Events 40,700

    Memorial To And For The HPV Vaccine Victims
    http://sanevax.org/victims-2/vaccine-victims-memorial/

    Gardasil Vaccine rDNA Introduced at Coroner’s Inquest
    Catherine J. Frompovich, August 9 2012

    Dr. Lee’s pathology report indicates that Gardasil® material was lodging in tissue and may have been causing health problems. The fact that Gardasil® DNA fragments were suspended in post-mortem blood—and six months post vaccination—indicates there is pathology that HPV vaccine makers did not warn about on the vaccine package inserts as a contradiction. How serious a problem is that for vaccine makers?

    In my opinion, it poses a quite serious problem for two reasons. First, the manufacturer went to great lengths to remove all residual HPV DNA from the vaccine, including using a patented process to remove it from the vaccine. They assured regulatory agencies worldwide that there was no ‘viral DNA’ in the vaccine in order to obtain approval for marketing their product. Any way you slice it, HPV DNA is viral DNA – it need not be the complete virus to be viral DNA.

    After we reported the presence of HPV DNA in Gardasil® to the FDA, FDA declared without presenting any supportive data that rDNA fragments are an acceptable excipient. The fact is the FDA does not know the physical condition of the HPV DNA or plasmid DNA in the vaccine. The physical condition of naked foreign DNA determines the fate of these DNA fragments and their pathophysiological effects in the human body.

    Up to now, the vaccine industry always knew “The FDA specifically requires vaccine developers to show that VLPs [virus-like particles] do not encapsidate “specific” nucleic acid sequences from the expression system, and especially those encoding VLPs components.” (Valley-Omar’s paper)

    Second, had Jasmine had wild (natural) HPV in her blood, it would not have lasted very long as the macrophages would have degraded it within a couple of days. Therefore, according to Dr. Lee:

    “The finding of these foreign DNA fragments in the post-mortem samples six months after vaccination indicates that some of the residual DNA fragments from the viral gene or plasmid injected with Gardasil® have been protected from degradation in the form of DNA-aluminum complexes in the macrophages; or via integration into the human genome. Undegraded viral and plasmid DNA fragments are known to activate macrophages, causing them to release tumor necrosis factor, a myocardial depressant which can induce lethal shock in animals and humans.”

    Norma, could that tumor necrosis factor include cancer? Are there other ‘unknowns’?

    TNF [tumor necrosis factor] is but one possible byproduct of macrophage activation. To the best of my knowledge, it only affects the heart. Other cytokines also could theoretically be produced as a result of macrophage activation causing other problems – no one knows. Study in this area is relatively new.

    No one knows the potential consequences of these foreign DNA fragments remaining in the human body. Can they cause cancer? Can they cause autoimmune disorders? Can they cause birth defects? Can they cause death? No one knows – that is a HUGE problem, in my opinion.

    Do you think AAHS [amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate] in Gardasil® can be the primary contributing factor to so many deaths and adverse reactions in young girls who were vaccinated with Gardasil® ? Please elaborate.

    Personally, having looked at the results of the clinical trials where the vaccine was tested against the AAHS as a control, I believe it is a strong possibility that AAHS is a contributing factor. The reason being the adverse events during the trials were somewhat evenly distributed between the two groups. Unfortunately, over 70% of all trial participants experienced a ‘new medical condition’ during the trials – which, by the way, is the CDC’s definition of an adverse event.

    Read more:
    http://vactruth.com/2012/08/09/gardasil-rdna-coroners-inquest/

    Four Year Analysis of Adverse Reactions to the Gardasil HPV Vaccine

    by Lloyd W. Phillips

    The children and adults who received the Gardasil HPV vaccine have given a voice to Autism. There was no doubt that these cheerleaders, football players, swim-team members, volleyball players, etc were in good health prior to receiving their Gardasil HPV vaccine, which killed some, brain damaged others, and caused 10s of thousands to become disabled. Although this was written specifically around the Gardasil HPV vaccine, it applies to ALL needle and syringe vaccines.

    Gardasil Syndrome, a.k.a. Vaccine Syndrome, a.k.a. Gulf War Syndrome, a.k.a. Phillip-Offit-Wakefield Syndrome, with similar symptoms found in Lyme Disease and Autism:

    Common Symptoms

    1) Fatigue; 2) Pain-headache, stomach, or joints; 3) Lightheadedness upon standing (POTS); 4) Flares of inflammation, nausea, and Lupus-like symptoms, plus possible Ankylosing Spondylitis if HLA-B27 gene mutation is present; 5) Irritability & Short Temper; 6) Inability to concentrate and poor memory; 7) Increased sensitivity to light and/or loud sounds, smells, foods; 8) Eczema, acne, hives, rashes, ITP; 9) Multiple Vector-borne pathogens, such as Lyme-related infections and co-infections, may typically be present; 10) Unskilled doctors may typically tell you it’s all in your head (Conversion Disorder); 11) Histamine Intolerance, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Gastroparesis, plus Thyroid and Gallbladder disorders have been observed when left untreated.

    Tests

    1) Comprehensive Cytokine Panel; look for many LPS Stimulated Cytokines to be only 25% to 50% of the lowest acceptable counts; 2) LabCorp#: 505026; NAME: HNK1; COMMON NAME: NK-CD57. Counts for this test will typically be FAR BELOW gate, with many lab results falling at or below 22. A count of 63 is generally considered the lowest acceptable limit.

    ABSTRACT

    Prolonged inflammation initiated by powerful vaccine adjuvants such as Amorphous Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate (AAHS), may be life-threatening and/or result in cognitive and motor skill disorders in those individuals with multiple genetic mutations which affect:

    1) Removal of Aluminum Adjuvants from the host in a timely manner (such as Low or Mutated transferrin)

    2) Pathogen Load (such as HLA-DR15)

    3) Glutathione production and utilization (such as GSTM1), and

    4) Transsulfuration (such as CBS 699t)

    Although other mutations may contribute to the cascade of debilitating events, such as C282Y, which is associated with Hemochromatosis, plus other genes associated with Methylation, the above four genetic conditions formed the core group in this study.

    The UNPREDICTABILITY of Aluminum Adjuvant Clearance from the Human Body

    – or –

    Why ALL Humans Do Not Suffer Vaccine Injuries and acquire Autism

    Noted Geneticist Dr Sin Hang Lee found HPV16-L1 Protein fragments from the Gardasil HPV vaccine tightly bound to their Aluminum substrate (adjuvant) in two different autopsy tissue samples from two different deceased teenage girls. One of the deceased teenagers had received her last Gardasil vaccine injection six months prior to her death. The proprietary HPV16-L1 Protein vaccine fragments were still present in her spleen, causing inflammation and continuing to produce antibodies, which were found nearby. The HPV16-L1 protein fragments were still tightly bound to their aluminum substrates.

    Modern Science teaches that aluminum adjuvants separate from vaccine components within 24 hours of injection. Aluminum has an atomic size of 0.051 nm, with an electric charge of +3, and may possibly compete with iron (0.064 nm, +3), magnesium (0.066 nm, +2) or calcium (0.099, +2). About 95% of aluminum binds to transferrin and albumin intravascularly, and is then excreted renally. Transferrin is low when iron is high in the body. Many subjects in our study group tested LOW for transferrin. Some in this group tested positive for Hemochromatosis, with a confirmed positive for an associated C282Y genetic mutation.

    We hypothesize that low iron or an iron deficiency or an iron excess may all be an extremely important indication of a possible inability to clear aluminum (adjuvants) from the body of a vaccine recipient, resulting in a possible hyper-activation of the immune system, accompanied by possible failure to properly self-limit inflammation. Simply taking iron supplements before the Gardasil vaccination may result in an inability to properly clear the aluminum vaccine adjuvant because the iron may (partially) saturate transferrin, and not allow it to attract aluminum.

    We further hypothesize that numerous genetic polymorphisms or alleles of transferrin such as the common G277S, which results in anemia in a significant number of white women, may be of unsuitable atomic weight or electrical characteristics to efficiently attract and transport various aluminum compounds in all humans (Br J Haematol. 2001 Nov;115(2):329-33). Inefficient liver/kidney removal activity may then play a further role in the retention of aluminum adjuvants. The more vaccines administered, the greater the risk of death from failure of methylation and transsulfuration.

    The amount of iron, aluminum, or similar substance taken in that day from antiperspirants, food, or perhaps part of an existing body burden, may act to saturate available transferrin, resulting in inhibited transport and excretion of aluminum, allowing the aluminum from a vaccine to be deposited in tissue, resulting in (possible) symptoms of an iatrogenic autoimmune disease. Additionally, the inflammation resulting from an allergic or other reaction to Gardasil or other concomitant vaccines may be sufficient to induce sequestration of iron and aluminum within cells of the reticuloendothelial system. The spleen is the largest organ in the reticuloendothelial system (a.k.a. mononuclear phagocyte system), and this is the exact place where Dr Sin Hang Lee found mutated HPV16-L1 Protein fragments in autopsy tissue from two deceased teens, long after their HPV vaccinations.

    Read more:
    http://www.gardasilsyndrome.com/

    Focus on ANKYLOSING SPONDYLITIS:
    Adding the HLA-B27 Mutation Produces A Distinct Disease
    http://gardasilsyndrome.com/four_year_analysis–FOCUS-ON-ANKYLOSING-SPONDYLITIS.htm

    Gardasil-The Real Truth
    http://www.vacfacts.info/gardasil—the-real-truth.html

  • No they are not, and your topic at the time was only an attempted false discreditation hit on me. Perhaps your selective memory more than needs a bit of correcting and adjustment.

  • I don’t need to, but I do it, and just because I can. Much respect, AutismDadd.

    Unless they need a good butt kicking, or worse!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awzNHuGqoMc

  • JGC

    Why would I make that up, Lowell? He’s just one of those people who don’t develop protective titers following infection.

    And why do yuyuou believe it could only happen if he’d been vaccinated but not if he had not?

  • Proponent

    “OBJECTIVES OF VAERS

    Despite its limitations, VAERS has been able to fulfill its primary purpose of identifying new or rare vaccine side effects, increases or decreases in rates of known side effects, and patient risk factors for particular types of adverse events. Examples include intussusception after rotavirus vaccine, 16-18 an enhanced safety profile of acellular pertussis vaccines (DTaP) compared with older diphtheria, tetanus, and whole cell pertussis combination vaccines (DTP), 19 and anaphylactic reactions to measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine caused by gelatin allergy. 20”

    … …

    References:

    16. Murphy TV, Gargiullo PM, Massoudi MS, et al; Rotavirus Intussusception Investigation Team. Intussusception among infants given an oral rotavirus vaccine. N Engl J Med. 2001;344(8):564-572.

    17. Zanardi LR, Haber P, Mootrey GT, Niu MT, Wharton M. Intussusception among recipients of rotavirus vaccine: reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Pediatrics. 2001;107(6):E97.

    18. Kramarz P, France EK, DeStefano F, et al. Population-based study of rotavirus vaccination and intussusception. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2001;20(4):410-416.

    19. Braun MM, Mootrey GT, Salive ME, Chen RT, Ellenberg SS. Infant immunization with acellular pertussis vaccines in the United
    States: assessment of the first two years’ data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Pediatrics. 2000; 106(4):E51.

    20. Atkinson W, Hamborsky J, Wolfe C, eds. Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases. 8th ed. Atlanta, GA: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; 2004.

    (Source: Pediatric Annals 33:9 | September 2004 | “The Role of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) in Monitoring Vaccine Safety” )

  • Proponent

    AutismDadd: “VAERS is a toothless, powerless and useless entity, exactly how is was meant to be.”

    Incorrect.. again. See.. here.

  • Proponent

    Correct for once.

    Lowell Hubb’s positions and claims are, indeed … indefensible.

  • Yes there is, they must deny it. The profits of the entire vaccine industry, and their careers and their associated minions careers, depend on it. You know we are all all whack job and mislead conspiracy theorists, right? No evidence and nor proof of vaccine injury exists, anywhere. It is all only a repeatative, coincidence.

  • Again, the said Harvard directed study is an obvious junk science sham, so just face it. That was already explained, you just refused to accept the answers.

    Without any specific details on your child’s case, of course it can not be determined what the causation actually was; so you can just stop your attempt at generalizing the issue.

    The fact is that many existing cases of SBS are actually falsely accused, and what was contained for data and information on my linked to you page, clearly shows that, and why. Yes vaccines can cause a misleading cascade of detrimental health effects that can often look like shaking, but they are not. You just need to face it. The evidence is there, and Yazbak is actually correct. I will reference to his information and work, any time I want.

  • That is right, it says nothing about VZV vaccination and that more specific studies in regard to the VZV vaccine, are needed. As I said, where did they get and derive their data from, when it was found in those that never acquired natural chicken pox, (varicella), that the incidence of brain cancer was decreased? Those said people in the study obviously had to be either VZV vaccinated, or not VZV vaccinated, and to form any kind of a comparison study control group. .

  • You clearly do not teach vaccine truth and nor based on real independent data and existing unbiased studies.

    As for your false directive that I consider the autistic as a plague; that again is an entirely false and very sick assumption. If i did not value human life and including the autistic any more than that, obviously I would not even waste the time to advocate for vaccine truth and/or make even a single reply post on this site.

    The real plague is the toxic and known contaminated vaccines; not those who are autistic. In economic terms the increasing numbers of those individuals with an autism diagnosis is an economic disaster not only the families of but as well all systems of health care, in regard to the over-all loss and the cost of providing the care that they need. Your false and twisted claims do not even make any sense.

    Autism costs estimated to reach nearly $500 billion, potentially $1 trillion, by 2025
    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-autism-billion-potentially-trillion.html

    £32billion bill for autism, Britain costliest condition: Total cost of treatment, care and support is more then heart disease, cancer and strokes combined
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653518/32billion-bill-autism-Britain-costliest-condition-Total-cost-treatment-care-support-heart-disease-cancer-strokes-combined.html

  • Jonathan Graham

    That is right, it says nothing about VZV vaccination

    and yet you appear to be saying

    These studies and the information show directly the benefits of not vaccinating

    It can’t both say NOTHING about VZV vaccaination being good or bad and also tell you that it’s beneficial to not get VZV vaccinated

    Read. Think. Post.

  • Just answer the question, was he varicella vaccinated? Yes or no? Go ahead and as well provide any documentation you can find of any person who has never been vaccinated for varicella, that ever developed varicella, more than once, after recovery? So as well are you saying that your son is immunocompromised? If so,,. then why would that be?

  • And really, and as you falsely accuse of that, just go ahead and tell me, how so? And just what exactly do you accuse of that i am lying about? Everything I said was exactly correct.

  • As to the study, you can see that the only subjects that were at much lower risk of developing brain cancer, were those study subjects that acquired natural varicella, and recovered thus resulting in acquired natural immunity. How else would you get chicken pox other than if you were never vaccinated?

    Just go on butchering sentences and paragraphs, and in actual getting no where. Falsely mock, disrupt, and distract. That is all you can ever do.

  • Proponent

    The research paper, that the article is based on.. can be found here:

    Cancer Medicine | “History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case-control study”

    … …

    The article’s length that you’ve near fully quoted in your post.. is relatively short. And yet.. you excluded the concluding remark and, in turn … mischaracterized the findings of the study.

    Here is..that.. last.. line:

    “In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.”

    (The Journal’s name, in which the study was published, is a dead giveaway alone.. Cancer Medicine.)

    … …

    Your post does succeed, however, in underscoring the fact that.. once again.. you have not read the actual paper in it’s entirety.

    Since your opening interrogative salvo.. had you read the actual paper … is already answered in the body of the text of the paper itself. As numerous references are made throughout.. citing previous research efforts on the observed inverse relationship … that has spanned years (1997 – 2015).

    Simply put.. this is not ‘new’ news.

  • Vaccines do actually bypass the body’s delicate defense system; so just wake up and get a clue. The evidence for that is clearly there and outlines.

    How Vaccines Dysregulate The Immune System
    http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/how-vaccines-dysregulate-the-immune-system/

    Vaccinations Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation
    http://www.liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    A Mouse Model for the Immune Dysregulation Subtype of Autism, (And they would still claim to that there is no way vaccines have and can cause autism? That conclusion is of course clearly preposterous.)
    http://tacanowblog.com/2012/07/23/a-mouse-model-for-the-immune-dysregulation-subtype-of-autism/

    An Immune Disorder at the Root of Autism
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opinion/sunday/immune-disorders-and-autism.html/?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Why vaccines spread disease and vaccine science is flawed
    http://alignlife.com/articles/medicalresearch/why-vaccines-spread-disease-and-vaccine-science-if-flawed

    The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm
    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html

    How Vaccinations Affect the Developing Immune System

    The fact that vaccines still elicit an improper immune response today is confirmed in this article below admitting not only that vaccines produce an incorrect immune response, but also that the vaccines we use today were developed with a poor understanding of how the immune system works in the first place.

    Read more:

    http://www.vaccinedecision.info/cgi-bin/viewcontent.cgi?article_id=18

    How Do Vaccines Work? Immune Mechanisms and Consequences

    Can the immune responses generated by the vaccines create a pattern of immune imbalance that actually compromises the child’s immune system?

    Read more:
    http://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/Informed-Choice/how-do-vaccines-work-immune-mechanisms-and-consequences.html

    Infant Immunity Part II: Aluminum, vaccines, and fetal brain development, with Dr. Suzanne Humphries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdSCY7W-BUo

  • Wakefileld’s primate studies showed major changes related to the develoment atsm. Just because the study was withdrawn from Elsivier does not mean the study conclusions were incorrect. They at Elsivier are connected to the same pharma minions that deliberately deceived and swindled their way into as well retraction of the known Wakefield 1998 Lancet study. Its called sabotage and censoring of information. It is as well not just the MMR vaccine, in the causation of vaccine injury and resulting autism.

    Callous Disregard – Research, (supporting and replicating studies)
    http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

    STUDIES AND RESEARCHES ON AUTISM DISORDERS
    http://soundchoice.org/autism/

  • You are as well reading to much disinformation filled Gorski blogging material. He is the real fraud, falsely masquerading as a science defender.

  • No such thing was ever said. Your claim is so beyond twisted that it does not even make any sense.

  • You are just again and again wasting my time with your intended distract and disrupt, nonsense. You obviously wouldn’t know and be honesty about who actually broke into what, and your post only amounts to only more twisted and arrogant, false accusations.

  • So now you are so reckless and dimwitted that you are even responding to your own replied with statements? You know what I am talking about so quit attempting to ignore it. You were already told it is not happening. Its interesting as well that you deny nothing in regard to that.

  • Just more trash talking and false accusations. Nothing new, here. You as well admitted that your only purpose here is to provide for attempted mockery of any and all vaccine truth information, and as well any person who provides it. Of course your major target is always me, and because you know how much vaccine truth I have put forward here.

  • It’s a logical literal conclusion.

  • Prove it.

  • Where is the actual evidence for these claims?

    No – they don’t. They bypass the skin, sure.

    But not the defense system – they use the defense system – that is the whole point.

  • Sigh.

    Compounds = elements is a false statement.

    If you know better, then you are lying.

    Not a hard concept.

  • Reliable sources please.

    Caring about the parents is not the same thing.

  • Not really.

    Even in Upper School, we knew PEE. Point, Evidence, Explanation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Your above statement doesn’t make any kind of argument as to why this study would tell you that there is any disadvantage to vaccination in regards to glioma incidence. Perhaps you need to rephrase as: “It shows there is higher risk to those vaccinated because…”

  • Jonathan Graham

    You’re being abusive again. I’m just telling you so.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So now you are so reckless and dimwitted

    Abusive.

    But again, if you have a reasonable request for disclosure of a conflict of interest. Please phrase it in a specific sentence in your next post and I’ll do my absolute best to comply. After this I think you lose all argument that I’m unwilling to disclose any conflict of interest.

  • Like this one?

    —Gadad et al. (2015) showed no difference in autism rates in rhesus monkeys based on vaccination, and their brains were dissected just to make certain. Also, this study was funded by anti-vaccine groups

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m just standing up and telling the truth.

  • guest

    Yes, the latest one where the Johnson’s stated that SafeMind paid for the study yet, Safemind stated they didn’t and when ask why they made that statement their response was we were told we cannot that disclose that. Yep, that one. go to their website and read ll about it. Oh, you’re a paid operative so you’ll go the route of “well, I’m not going to go to an anti-vaccine website’. Yea, a paid for bias study like that. it was all over Forbes so I’m sure you didn’t miss it.

  • guest

    CONSPIRACY THEORY”?
    There it is the true and tell sign sign of a troll. The old conspiracy theory meme.

  • guest

    Mike you know it’s still in court?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ha! That’s the first time I heard that mnemonic. I’d say that your upper school education was a tad more refined than my own.

  • Kind of a long story.

    The end result though is that one “side effect” of the selection of my upper school was that it was specialist in Business, Science and some weird thing that means I.T.

    And the school managed to accidentally be specialist in maths too. Somehow.

  • JGC

    Your argument reduces to “The content of 100% of all peer reviewed journals in the world is controlled by a cabal of pharmaceutical companies working in concert to publish false information to maximize profits”.

    But that’s not a conspiracy theory? Really?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Wow. I actually went to a school that today would be considered prep for trades. Nobody at that time, really knew where computers fit in the curriculum. So they ended up there. I’m not exaggerating either. My first computer teacher was from the English dept. I spent most of my time teaching her (by that time I had my own computer and written more code than a university grad) Now because of this particular alignment of stars – my school hosted one of the first high-school Co-Op programs in computer science and I of course got tapped for it.

  • Not that kind of I.T. – Office Suite stuff, mostly.

  • guest

    I just read the best name to date for pharma trolls and it applies here so I will share. A commentor on another uncensored board (lots of swear words) calls them the Pharm/Vaccine/ Bio-Tech Taliban. He, or she added a few picture. No pictures here but you can ck them out at the links below.

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-006&ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-tyc&p=vaccine%20checkpoint%20image&type=

    http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dees-mandatory-vaccine.jpg

    http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/forced_vaccination.png

  • guest

    Sorry dear—you played your hand. Anything you say from this point and before is moot.

  • JGC

    I’m not saying my son is I mm uniform promised, as he’s not. I’m instead saying he caught the chicken pox 3 times because he’s one of those individuals who fail to develop a protective antibody titer as the result of infection by wild type varicella.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Ahh. When I went to school that wasn’t really a thing. People learned to type on typewriters. I actually suggested that the 10th Grade (which is Year 11 IIRC) curriculum be split into “Computer Applications” and “Computer Science” (which was really just programming) but they didn’t go for it. (Although in truth I suggested that they not just cover office stuff but also general organizational principles and how computers are used in equipment and musical applications like MIDI – so I may have kind of overwhelmed them).

  • Sonja Henie

    Data from 2012. Here’s the most recent for the EU: http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Pages/Scheduler.aspx

  • Mike Stevens

    So they aren’t already “guilty”?
    I hope your fellow antivaxers take note, and await the outcome of the case.

  • pHarma

    Not changed significantly.
    UK Page on Chicken Pox. Vaccine only recommended for those who did not contract a natural infection in childhood, as do most of the few European countries who offer it at all. Of the 185 countries in the world CP vax is only offered in 35 or so, primarily for specific risk groups. Only a handful have universal recommendation. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chickenpox/Pages/Introduction.aspx
    Note they refrain from using the term Varicella.

  • pHarma

    Ahhh, Jenny who doesn’t read the posts, and instead has canned responses- “Links to the original study / judgement / etc” “and compared to”.
    If you would read the link it shows the UK page detailing that serious complications from natural chicken pox infection is less than 1/100,000 cases. The risk of being injected with the wrong medication is greater than that.
    The Varicella vaccine by itself provokes a Febrile Seizure require Emergency Room treatment 1/4000 doses, also documented in the link you didn’t read on the chart from the Vaccine Safety Datalink study comparing febrile seizure rates of the MMR, Varicella, MMRV alone and in combinations.
    Varicella Febrile seizure rate- 1/4000
    MMR injection alone 1/3500 into the ER
    Varicella and MMR injections administered in the same visit 1/2500
    MMRV ProQuad 4 in 1 puts 1/1250 children into the ER.
    The natural infection is dramatically safer than the Varicella vaccine.
    As detailed adding the Varicella increases the reactions rates of the MMR, and when combined with the MMR is ridiculously potent.
    Also detailed in the link which you did not read is that 15-22% of recipients experience a multi day fever in excess of 102f, and 3% become so ill their parents take them back to the doctor, as per the CDC FAQ sheet you have never read. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-vaccines/mmrv/vacopt-factsheet-hcp.htm

  • You would think they would care about due process with all the screeching about “rights” that they do.

  • Oh no, dear.

    You can’t compare moderate+ complications from the vaccines to serious complications only from natural immunity if you wish to be honest.

    What is the chance of febrile seizure from a natural immunity to chickenpox? What is the chance of fever >102F from natural immunity?

    I’ve read the CDC factsheet.

  • pHarma

    False. It is a requirement to have a paper published that it not question the advisability of any feature of universal vaccination. In this case it also acts as a propaganda line to try to misdirect the next logical thought, which is, “If natural Chicken Pox infection protects against brain cancer why are we suppressing it by using a vaccine?”, and trying to show that the vaccine has value as both a preventive and a treatment. However, given the choice, how many patients whose brain cancer would have been prevented by a natural infection would choose to use the vaccine to prevent natural chicken pox, making them more susceptible and then developing brain cancer requiring a “vaccine” treatment, instead of just having Chicken Pox as a kid and skipping the brain cancer?
    And the treatment would not be an off the shelf “chicken pox vaccine”, it would be a specifically developed viral therapy.
    The therapeutic use of a virus to treat an existing illness is an entirely different medical application than using it to suppress a near universally benign routine infection that this study shows confers the benefit of a reduction in brain cancer risk. An objection to population use suppression does not to mean an objection to viral therapies.
    This original article is questioning the value of universal Chicken Pox vaccination, which is tremendously difficult to justify, and was highly debated from the outset http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/18/us/after-long-debate-vaccine-for-chicken-pox-is-approved.html?pagewanted=all Original calculations were largely financial and included parents lost wages due to caring for an ill child, and assumed a long lasting single injection plan which has proven to be incorrect. At the time of the approval the 1/4000 seizure rate requiring ER treatment, and the powerful potentiating effect on the MMR Seizure rate when administered together had not yet been identified. We are now at 2 pediatric injections, 1/4000 to 1/1250 ER visits, 1-3 % outpaitient fever visits, 10 -22% children ill for a week with over 102f vaccine associated illness, etc. Today, if you were to add together the expense of the emergency room treatments, the lost wages from parents caring for vaccine associated illnesses and outpatient fever visits, the 2 dose requirement, etc. there is legitimate question if the even that financial method would pencil out. Compared to a week home from school and 1/4 bottle of Calamine lotion ( I and my three siblings all survived Chicken Pox and Measles on a single 16 oz bottle)

    Since you like to read you are welcome to review my other post which details that the UK made a thorough study of natural chicken pox infection complication rate and found it to be less than 1/100,000. Then review the seizure rates as disclosed by the CDC in the MMRV FAQ pages and then justify the risk / benefit ratio. And why your rationale is superior the the 150 or so national health services that do not agree with you.

  • AutismDadd

    Exactly. Proof, how much proof do we need. When parents are reporting it, that’s real and as real as it gets.

  • AutismDadd

    Well when I say dirt bag, you respond….priceless!

  • AutismDadd

    No need to view anything you spew.

  • pHarma

    Read Jenny dear-
    it is in the post- UK Health Service- Ataxia- it is the blue one that says “Ataxia” at the top, if that helps- “natural chicken pox infection complications occur less than 1/100,000”. That is why the UK doesn’t recommend it.

  • AutismDadd

    Small potatoes. Its hard to believe vaccine makers admitted how badly they screwed up. Adds to the contention vaccines aren’t safe though. Its also strange how pro-vac dirt bags claim VAERS isn’t worthy , then claim it is. Two faced hypocrites.

  • AutismDadd

    Hardly cat woman

  • That’s not the point.

    Compare vaccine problems to natural immunity problems. Get on with it.

  • guest

    Hey, lets wait for the end of the trial. i can wait can’t you?

  • JGC

    In other words “Your argument doesn’t count for no reason other than I say so”–that;s the best you can bring to the table?

  • All the truth is on our side, and as well the independent study science.

    Petition for Paul A. Offit, MD to take 10,000 vaccines at one time.

    Dr. Paul Offit, MD writes about vaccine safety, “each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10 000 vaccines at any one time (obtained by dividing 107 B cells per mL by 103 epitopes per vaccine).” i.e. that an infant can respond to the challenge posed by the antigens in 10,000 vaccines.”

    If an infant can respond to 10,000 vaccines at one time, certainly Dr. Offit, in his supreme confidence of the safety and efficacy of modern vaccines and the CDC’s Vaccine schedule, would have no reservation about taking 10,000 vaccines himself at one time.

    We petition Dr. Paul Offit, MD of Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia to demonstrate his theoretical proclamation that a human being could take 10,000 vaccines at one time by, in fact, taking 10,000 vaccines at one time.

    Should Dr. Paul Offit, MD have reservations about such an action, we petition a smaller dose of 1,000 Vaccines at one time. Vaccines should be chosen from the CDC’s recommended (in some states, mandated) vaccination schedule. Surely, Dr. Offit would have no reservation about receiving 1/10 the theoretical capacity of a human being 1/20th his own weight and size.

    https://www.change.org/p/citizens-of-usa-petition-for-paul-a-offit-md-to-take-10-000-vaccines-at-one-time?recruiter=517312154&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-comment_share-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    A well done and full analysis of those studies, right here. Find out why they are nothing but unreliable junk science, all of it conducted and paid for by those with the most conflict of interest.

    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    Market and Technology Analysis
    May 23, 2016
    For Struggling Pharma Market, Vaccines Offer Path to Revenue
    The World Vaccines Market Is Predicted to Reach $45.1 billion in 2022
    http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/for-struggling-pharma-market-vaccines-offer-path-to-revenue/77900658/
    vaccine-safety-davidwolfe

    VACCINES AND VACCINE SAFETY – THE FULL TRUTH BY DAVID WOLFE
    http://www.davidwolfe.com/vaccines-and-vaccine-safety/

  • So you are saying he was varicella vaccinated. Perhaps it would have been better left alone and he not been vaccinated at all, and for anything. Vaccines dysregulate the immune system. I have posted info on that many times before.

  • You clearly wouldn’t be able to determine, and admit to the truth, and even if it and the whole situation took a bite out of your rear end.

    All that matters here is the vaccine truth. People like this are telling the truth, and as much as you despise that, and again and again attempt to repeatedly mock it. I really do not know how you exist, and actually live with yourself, as to the vaccine harm you continue to promote. Just because you are brainwashed with the false vaccine propaganda, does not justify or mean that you should continue to demand that others think and live within your same in denial and refuse all truth information, mindset.

    VACCINES AND VACCINE SAFETY – THE FULL TRUTH BY DAVID WOLFE
    http://www.davidwolfe.com/vaccines-and-vaccine-safety/

    And sites like this.

    VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?

    A well done and full analysis of those studies, right here. Find out why they are nothing but junk science that at well is entirely influenced the studies, by conflict of interest, and as to to funding sources.

    http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

    Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe
    http://vaxxedthemovie.com/

    Dr. Paul Offit’s Aluminum Deceptions and Academic Misconduct (one very important article, to read)
    http://vaccinepapers.org/dr-paul-offits-aluminum-deceptions-academic-misconduct/

    Millions of Children Infected with ‘Vaccine Safety Experts’ Rotateq Vaccine: Dr. Paul Offit
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/breaking-news-millions-children-infected-vaccine-safety-experts-rotateq-vaccine

    VACCINE CONTAMINATION: A THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH
    http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/Rotavirus-Campaign/VACCINE-CONTAMINATION–A-THREAT-TO-HUMAN-HEALTH.aspx

    Educate 4 The Vaccine Injured, (lots of data and scientific studies on this site, showing the harm of vaccines)
    http://www.educate4theinjured.org/

  • Disclose any and all conflicts of interest that you have, is that direct and simple enough for you? You are still digging for false excuses not to provide that information.

  • You can falsely accuse all you want, but the evidence is against you, and wide open for any readers to see. I could care less what you think and falsely accuse. You have made this a personal vendetta, and these articles are about the vaccine issues, and not your personal distract and disrupt bickering, to no end. Go to the new article and see what you can argue about and attempt to refute as to that information. Good luck.

  • What do you not understand about the differences between natural immunity and so called vaccine derived immunity? Obviously the study shows that it would be better to remain unvaccinated, as acquiring natural immunity is the only way you would acquire the health benefits that would beneficial to the resistance to the development of cancer. As to varicella that study pertains to brain cancer, and the measles study pertains to over-all health benefits in staying healthy, and in not acquiring other diseases and common disorders later in life. If you can not, and continue to refuse to comprehend the significance of those studies, then that is being done deliberately, and thus that is only your problem, and not mine.

  • guest

    I repeat “moot”.

  • Tell me why those are unreliable sources? They are not. You know that nothing would ever be good enough for you as a source. If it didn’t come from the CDC or Pediatrics and their minions, nothing would be sufficient in regard to any source. What you are actually doing is simply attempting to make mockery of the truth, and through your denial by the sue of false discreditation. That is all you can ever do.

  • Come on Higgs, say what you mean and mean what you say. Get to it and quit simply screwing around. Your reply does not even follow anything that has been stated here.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually it probably matters more that you stop being abusive and harassing than whatever is in the links you are now spamming.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’ve disclosed anything that seem to be a conflict of interest to me and you have some kind of speech impediment stopping you from doing anything other than making vague claims that that’s not enough.

    So no, that doesn’t qualify as specific – so you lose any argument that I’m unwilling to disclose anything. Since I can’t provide something that you can’t put into more words than: “Not just that”. :-)

  • Those vaccines do not only just bypass the skin, the immune system is much more complex than that, and obviously you didn’t even bother to review the above information. The evidence of course is found in the correct understanding of the immune system and the differences between natural immunity and so called vaccine derived immunity. There are major differences, and if you do not even realize that fact, then you have no place here in even attempting to respond and dispute anything at all.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s abusive when you cast all those aspersions. So it’s a TRUE accusation. Please stop. There’s nothing personal about wanting abusive people like you to stop their abuse.

  • That is where your claim came from, Gorski’s blogging; so just admit it. I know what he has produced for articles, and what he is connected to.

  • Only in your twisted and illogical mind.

  • Just admit it that you refuse to comprehend the significance of those studies, and just because those studies do not support the claimed so safe and effective, pro-vaccine agenda.

  • Again stated, by the actual abuser; and again your level of hypocrisy is beyond disgusting.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Obviously the study shows that it would be better to remain unvaccinated,

    I’ve already quoted where the study itself says the inverse of that statement.

    as acquiring natural immunity is the only way you would acquire the health benefits that would beneficial to the resistance to the development of cancer.

    Notice how this statement of yours really says nothing?

    I obviously could explain

    No, I don’t think you could. See “explaining” would be adding new information from the same study. You just reiterate the same fabricated principle and claim it as “obvious”. Even though the study itself repudiates the claim.

  • Speech impediment? So you can hear me talk, when I type? Your mind apparently runs in some very bizarre thought patterns and circles.

    How is this not enough words for you? Disclose any and all conflicts of interest that you have in regard to your reply posting here on this article. Do you as well have any personal conflicts of interest to disclose in regard to your persistent replies and attacks on me, personally?

  • Jonathan Graham

    We are only discussing one study because since you were so lazy you could not pick one that actually supported your point. The study we are discussing clearly repudiates the claim that getting vaccinated for VZV increases your likelihood of getting gliomas. I’ve quoted the phrase from the study several times now. So I guess you’re just in denial.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Calling someone “disgusting” is kind of abusive. Please stop.

  • Again stated by you, the real abusive and harassing reply poster.

    Vaccine truth filled reference links are not spam. Just because you can not provide any valid references which you know will stand up to the scrutiny that you know it will get; don’t be blaming me for providing evidence for the claims I make.

  • You did not provide any study quote that provides anything considered as inverse of my statement. You are lying. Nothing was fabricated, and nothing as been repudiated in regard to that study, or any of the studies I provided in that subject matter regard. You can continue to twist it and lie about that all you want. If anyone is attempting to fabricate and change the findings to suit your own in denial needs, it is you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Speech impediment?

    …and apparently something which keeps you from understanding as well. :-)How is this not enough words for you?I didn’t ask for a QUANTITY of words. I asked for words that are SPECIFIC. Read my post next time. :-)

    Disclose any and all conflicts of interest that you have in regard to your reply posting here on this article.

    Please provide specific examples of this which are different from the things I’ve already disclosed. Otherwise you are just saying: “Tell me something else” which is sadly, in English not specific.

    Do you as well have any personal conflicts of interest

    Again give me a specific example of what a “personal conflict of interest” might be.

    to disclose in regard to your persistent replies and attacks on me, personally?

    I’m not attacking you. Sorry. I’m pretty much just politely responding to your posts. I point out when you are abusive and when you try to dismiss the idea that you’ve been abusive because that’s the only way to get online abusers to stop.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Dude as usual I’ve pointed out precisely where you have been abusive. The exact remark and I’ve even explained why the remark is abusive. You can’t do any of that with my posts. If you don’t want to talk to me you can just stop. I don’t have a problem with you talking ask long as you stop being abusive.

    filled reference links are not spam

    On many sites constantly posting stuff ancillary to the discussion at hand would be well within the definition of spam.

  • I am not going to continue to address such cut, paste, and hacked up reply sentences, nonsense. Enough is enough, and your level of in denial insanity belongs to you and not me. Whatever goes on in your twisted mind will not continue to be fed any further on these already hashed and rehashed again and again subject matters. You simply need to be banned from this site, and for doing nothing but continued and repeated badgering over issues that are so straight forward, and so obviously and easily understood. You endless level of denial is your problem, not mine.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You did not provide any study quote

    Then go take the quote I gave. Invert the statement I gave you and show how they are radically different. Otherwise you are just barking without bite. :-)

    Nothing was fabricated

    Sure, you can’t assume that VZV vaccine isn’t going to provide whatever (if any) protection against gliomas as getting ill does. The study says this. Ergo your assertion that the study says it is better to not vaccinate is made up.

  • Not if it is true. You are beyond disgusting, and if you did not want that determined as an outcome, then you should have long ago stopped reply posting with your repeated trash.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I am not going to continue to address

    It’s your choice – nobody is forcing you.

    Whatever goes on in your twisted mind

    Abuse. Please stop.

    issues that are so straight forward

    They are so straightforward that you can not form a specific sentence or provide a specific example. Sorry Lowell – I think people see that as something of a lie. :-)

  • Any study that I supplied you with on that list, more than supports my point. Vaccines have a negative effect over-all health outcomes, and to include the potential development of other major health issues later in life.Those studies give you a glimpse into the actual reality of that. If you want to debate that issue, then why are you not addressing it on the current article, and which further makes my point. You denial is your problem, and no one can fix you and nor will they ever be able to convince you of anything ever, no matter what.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Not if it is true.

    Actually that’s not the way things work. For example if you call someone a racist epithet – even though the term might connote an ethnic group – it is still offensive and abusive.

    You are beyond disgusting

    Abusive. Please stop.

  • More cut and paste hacked up trash, rehashing again and again the same issues that were previously addressed. Nothing would ever be enough. I would call what you are doing right here, abusive, and antagonistic to the point of being beyond sick. You are promoting again as well nothing but actual mockery and with that level of repeated badgering.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Any study that I supplied you with on that list, more than supports my point. Vaccines have a negative effect over-all health outcomes,

    Nope. You can’t even get your first study to do that. You even agreed that the study claims nothing can be concluded about VZV vaccination. Hence if you want to claim a benefit to not getting vaccinated that’s just something you are fabricating.

    no one can fix you and nor will they ever be able to convince you of anything ever, no matter what.

    Demonstrably false. Even on Disqus I’ve allowed the weight of evidence to change my mind on things. As I’ve said you swallow any weak evidence that agrees with your pre-existing prejudices. I’m just not into that.

  • Just more mockery, badgering, antagonizing, and harassment; and in the form of another cut up, hacked up, copy and pasted mess. I told you you couldn’t stop doing it. How obviously beyond sick and in denial are you anyway?

  • Just more of the same thing. How about if you stopped being abusive?

  • Jonathan Graham

    same issues that were previously addressed.

    More like you like to pretend that denying something is the same as addressing it. I’ve provided a quote and you have not provided any argument or quote from the study that says that getting vaccinated for VZV increases your chance of glioma. You’ve certainly asserted that many times and in many ways but sadly your assertions just don’t make an argument.

    I would call what you are doing right here, abusive

    I am politely responding to your comments. Any time you wish to disengage from the conversation you can.

    badgering.

    If you’re going to continually assert something incorrect. It’s not badgering to bring up the fact that you are just asserting and not demonstrating that assertion. :-)

  • Perhaps you should first stop provoking the situation, and creating the conduct that you are being labeled for, and being called out on?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Just more mockery,

    Requires intent. I’m not intending to mock you here.

    badgering and antagonizing, and harassment

    You keep asserting something that isn’t true. So it’s none of those things to point out your errors. Sorry.

    How obviously beyond sick and in denial are you anyway?

    Abuse. Please stop.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m not being abusive. Sorry.

  • You need to be banned. How much more evidence for that should be necessary, and is there going to be needed?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Perhaps you should first stop provoking the situation

    I’m just responding politely to your posts and pointing out when you are asserting something that you haven’t demonstrated. If you don’t want polite responses to your posts then I suggest to look to somewhere else than a public board to post them.

    and creating the conduct that you are being labeled for,

    I’ll just point out that you are constantly blaming me for your abusive speech and that is a pretty well understood halmark of abusive people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry you feel that way.

  • Sonja Henie

    “Note they refrain from using the term Varicella.”

    I don’t know what you think is the significance of that. It’s an article written for parents.

  • Sonja Henie

    Pre-vaccine, virtually everyone got chickenpox.

  • So?

  • Things that are facts can be independently verified.

    Get on with it.

  • Done.

    Not my fault if you don’t understand it.

    Go check vaxtruth, greenmedinfo et al – you’ll soon figure it out.

  • Yeh…it was basically 21st century secretarial stuff.

  • Sue

    Jees the more I read you rubbish the more I know you are here for one reason and one reason only.. to disrupt and well disrupt … who pays your wages.. or are you a wannabe in that area.. trying to show BIG Pahrama or say look at me look at me.. I’m on your side… Yes and then you are going to say why is there sides.. well one side wants money and does not care about the health of our children and certainly does not want to do any studies on this… and the other side wants freedom of choice.. safer vaccines.. and knowledge of what harm they can do.. and lets not forget having a study on what giving so many vaccines at once can do to a little person.. and the doses are the same as an adult.. Oh but well I am being stupid aren’t I….. Chickenpox is a childhood disease.. and you are suggesting WHAT??? That it is a killer, My children had it.. and my grandies just had it.. 3 years old and 8 month.. they are 2 healthy little children..

  • Sue

    Oh Gosh.. yes your CDC.. isn’t that the place in America that has the revolving door..one minute they work at the CDC.. Next Big Pharma.. oh and lets pop over to MONSANTO.. Oh yes let trust the CDC..

  • Sue

    Well yes I can see you like to intimidate don’t you.. play with peoples wording.. Mmm lonely little man

  • Sue

    Very true..

  • JGC

    Your evidence that vaccines “dysregulate” the immune system, such that the risk associated with vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection, would be what exactly? Be specific.

    I mean, you do actually have some–right?

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, I’m not intending at all to intimidate – sorry if it seemed that way. In what way can I change my text to make you feel more comfortable? The essence is that conversation has to go two ways and if the person you’re talking won’t clarify things it makes it pretty difficult to progress. Especially when they are showering you with disrespectful and abusive speech.

  • Jonathan Graham

    to disrupt and well disrupt

    Why would you say that, the post you are responding to is just putting some numbers around some of the problems the article writer claims makes vaccination senseless. When you frame it with the numbers her argument isn’t very good.

    Yes and then you are going to say why is there sides.

    No, most issues have sides.

    certainly does not want to do any studies on this

    Studies on what? What studies would you like done?

    and the other side wants freedom of choice.. safer vaccines.. and knowledge of what harm they can do

    Are you saying that people who work in pharmaceutical companies don’t want safer vaccines too?

    and lets not forget having a study on what giving so many vaccines at once can do to a little person

    All safety trials on vaccines are done (roughly) in schedule so effectively this kind of testing is done.

    Chickenpox is a childhood disease.. and you are suggesting WHAT??? That it is a killer,

    It does kill people – children too. http://vaccines.procon.org/files/1-vaccines-images/varicella-deaths-1972-2011a.JPG

    My children had it.. and my grandies just had it..

    Are you suggesting that just because some (or even most) people survive that people don’t die or that you shouldn’t take preventative measures?

  • Jonathan Graham

    yes your CDC.

    I don’t personally own the CDC.

    isn’t that the place in America that has the revolving door..one minute they work at the CDC.. Next Big Pharma.. oh and lets pop over to MONSANTO.

    I’m sure this happens to some degree but it happens in any industry where there are large players and small players. Large players tend to get the best and brightest out of school. People who are applying to a job out of school are basically attempting to impress a company on grades and some small amount of work. Everyone else either stays in academia or works at smaller firms. If they’re good, they rise to the top and often get hired by larger companies.

    Diseases are like anything that attacks your body. Regardless of your defenses there is always a chance of death. I fence and although I wear a significant amount of protective equipment people do get seriously injured and even die. Pretty much for the same reason healthy people die of chickenpox – bad luck.

  • Sonja Henie

    I think “Sue” is another one of the “t” people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I’m always a little suspicious of someone who just parachutes into a conversation.

  • bwf309

    Oh Mikey, even you must see that the chicken pox vaccine is unnecessary and does not need to be mandated. I know that your employers won’t let you acknowledge this, but we know you know, right?

  • Mike Stevens

    My employer is the NHS.
    Varicella vax is not mandated in the uk, anyhow.

  • bwf309

    I did not think this would be a full time job, but must provide you with a nice side income. And happy to see that the British are not being subjected to the stupidity of mandatory vaccine.

  • Mike Stevens

    I have no other employment.

  • Sue

    Ha ha Jonathan.. firstly i would say I have a reasonable good memory for what I posted,.. so my dear Jonathan no need to repeat my post back to me.. so be a dear and stop being silly… it seems to be your signature….Stupidity..
    Secondly .. if you are having people who are working for the CDC who are making the rules against and protecting the American people .. it seems to me a huge conflict jumping to those corporations they are being protected from.. but as a fencer .. well I guess you are not to worried…
    And thirdly.. as the CDC is a government department well think it is. I am not from America.. I guess you are right you do not own it.. you silly boy,,.. Quite honestly.. you are a worry….
    Oh Jonathan.. healthy children don’t die from the chickenpox.. well I guess being a fencer you would not know.. you are just one of the sheep who follow.. sad sad….man

  • Sue

    Oh deary deary deary.. are you still spending your time talking rubbish.. Most people I know have seen the chickenpox.. oh and you are going to say.. the big names.. Mmm and of course that will make you right .lol. My children and my grandchildren have had them. My Grandies recently 3 years old and 8 months old aprox.. all fine perfect health.. no ambulance needed.. And you know so well how many vaccinated children have suffered..you just want to argue.. want to lie and say it is not so.. and you know what you are just not worth the effort…. Mike Stevens.. not worth the effort.. well you might say why did i post at all.. Mmm well I did….and I guess that is that..

  • Sue

    OH CDC the holy grail… It would be funny if it wasn’t for all the children that have been vaccine damaged.. all the children that are not well….. Oh Jonathan Graham ..

  • Jonathan Graham

    if you are having people who are working for the CDC who are making the rules

    CDC doesn’t make or enforce the rules. They fund and host research and author publications. They may advise on legislation.

    it seems to me a huge conflict jumping to those corporations they are being protected from

    Why. What would they do?

    healthy children don’t die from the chickenpox

    They do – it’s an infection. An infection that impairs your airway always has a chance of being fatal. Unless you’re claiming that healthy children don’t need to breathe.

    I like your new affectation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well your made-up accent is funny.

  • Sue

    Oh for frig sake.. are you a wally or what.. chickenpox kills children.. yes you are a wally….Lol No No No….
    CDC funds research.. Mmmm what through BIG Pharma Scientist who are paid to do BIG Pharma bidding… Oh my goodness me go back to fencing.. as you sure don’t have a clue a clue what you are talking about buddy..

  • Sue

    Ha ha my made up accent.. and where pray tell is my made up accent from……
    It amazes me how intelligent you and your merry men of BIG Pharma are … when you go around liking every post like Sonja Henie.. for the post above.. Mmm shows how intelligent you both are… Made up accent ,,,,…. Lol…..

  • guest

    await the outcome of the case
    Free will.

  • Jonathan Graham

    chickenpox kills children

    Yes, unless you are saying that children can survive without breathing. Let me know when you figure that one out.

  • Jonathan Graham

    and where pray tell is my made up accent from……

    perhaps you don’t know what “made up” means?

    when you go around liking every post like Sonja Henie

    Nope.

  • Sue

    You are well lets not beat around the bush.. a liar….. I just told you my 2 gandies had it.. 3 years old and 8 months old.. fine and dandy.. my children had it find and dandy find.. go away little man.. you are so full of your own importance.. and well as I said a liar….If anyone listened to you they would also believe the world was flat… Wally….

  • Jonathan Graham

    I just told you my 2 gandies had it

    So? Does everyone die from every potentially deadly thing?

  • Sue

    You are telling the story fencer..

  • Sue

    There’s the ole’ signature again.. can’t come come up with anything intelligent to say so just copies the post of the person you are replying to.. Mmm as I said wally

  • Sonja Henie

    WTF? You have a problem with who I upvote? That’s rich.

  • Sue

    Ha ha you said.. you said….

  • Jonathan Graham

    No, you seem to be saying that it is impossible for chicken pox to kill because it didn’t kill your grandchildren. Right? Therefore if you met two people who weren’t killed by ebola the right thing to conclude is that ebola is harmless. Right?

    Or…while few people die of chicken pox – it, like any disease can kill people.

    Let me know when you figure out what you’re saying.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I use blockquotes because it makes it clear which part of the text I’m responding to. Your affectation is shifting with every post by the by.

  • Sue

    My dear fencer.. this is what you saud.. and sadly maybe you need reminding.. lol
    chickenpox kills children
    Yes, unless you are saying that children can survive without breathing. Let me know when you figure that one out.

    I do not seem to be saying anything… Right… lol
    But we are living breathing creatures.. and things can kill.. cars kill.. are you going to create a vaccine.. People get food poisoning at times.. will we stop eating.. you are a wally are you not….

  • Sue

    You use blockquotes as you call them because you are a wally.. my affectation is shifting with each post.. see what i am saying Walllllyyyy Lol

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually you said:

    healthy children don’t die from the chickenpox.

    However they do. For example when it infects the lungs.

    I do not seem to be saying anything.

    If you had added the word “cogent” I’d agree with you.

    and things can kill..

    So chickenpox can kill healthy children but somehow healthy children don’t die from the chickenpox?

    Perhaps you want to rephrase – sans affectation.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I call them blockquotes because that’s what they are. :-)

  • Oh get real and actually read the information I posted. If you have refused that, then do not again answer information and a question with a question. You obviously refuse any form of independent vaccine truth. You are simply wasting my time and because you refuse to actually educate yourself. There are two new articles here, so move on; you have wasted enough of my time here.

  • Sonja Henie

    Grow up!

  • Sue

    Not at all Jonathan Graham not at all.. your healthy and my healthy are different I am sur of thate.. my healthy is not children who have had 60 vaccines before they start school.. that live on GMO food.. and their foods are covered in pesticides..So when I say healthy children. I mean healthy children .. So I will say it again Healthy Children Don’t Die of Chicken Pox. un healthy children on the other hand, well their immune systems are low.. it is like most cancer victims don’t die of cancer they die of how Chemo kills their immune systems.. and kills them..wally

  • Sue

    Oh temper temper

  • You grow up. You reply like a bratty and spoiled child. So you are buddies with the twisted, lying and in denial, so called Jonathan Graham. Is that his real name? Such a great honor to be connected to someone like that, isn’t it?

  • You obviously don’t know what vaccine injury means. Every post you make is made up, so just admit it. So again you could not just directly answer to that reply and without hacking it up and copying and pasting it into shreds. Is that somehow supposed to be impressive, and an indication of your superior intelligence? Let me tell you of some reality, it is not working.

    Due to this article and all the reply posting you and I have done, I now have a wave of new friend requests on facebook. Thank you, I appreciate that, and there will now be so much more vaccine truth information that can be shared.

  • Sonja Henie

    What on earth are you talking about? You and Sue are prize trolls.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So when I say healthy children. I mean

    people who are entirely unvaccinated, have never had any even 1 molecule of any pesticide enter their body, or anything GMO, anything else? Medicine? Can a child have had any medicines since birth?

  • Trolls are people with major levels of conflict of interest, like you. We do not have any whatsoever. All we are concerned with and about, is the vaccine truth. Are you ready to disclose any and all conflicts of interest that you have? You can start with that now. And no, one wants hear any more false excuses as to why you can not provide that, and as to you and JG.

  • Sonja Henie

    Snort! My profile is public. You can see for yourself.

  • Sonja Henie

    I will point out Sue’s profile is private. What’s she hiding?

  • Jonathan Graham

    You obviously don’t know what vaccine injury means

    Like Sue’s affectation it’s something that is mostly made up.

    Thank you, I appreciate that

    Perhaps you can show your appreciation by not being abusive in the future?

    I now have a wave of new friend requests on facebook.

    Doubtful.

  • Although pollution certainly exists, and as well chemicalized and devitalized food, nothing produces more adverse health effects in regard to infants and children, than injecting 49 doses of 14 toxic and known contaminated vaccines by the age of 6, and with over half of that by the age of two.Wake up and stop attempting to suggest and look for any false excuses for the known outcome, but vaccines.

  • Jonathan Graham

    nothing produces more adverse health effects in regard to infants and children, than injecting 49 doses of 14 toxic and known contaminated vaccines by the age of 6,

    (emphasis mine). Please produce statistics for the adverse health effects for ALL THINGS. Since without that information you can not conclude that nothing is worse.

  • Awesome, then be gone. I understand it all quite well, and few people have done more over-all independent research, than I have. You do not have a prayers chance in hell of ever actually debating me in any honesty, and but to simply keep on again and again ignoring and denying the obvious evidence of the vaccine truth. Just like your buddy J went again crazy with only more lies and complete denial …Graham.

  • Sue

    Oh My Goodness Jonathan Graham you are more stupid than I thought.. Where did the no molecule of pesticides come in.. Oh you are just trying your best to play with people words.. well you ain’t really got the brains to do it .. lol you just ain’t got the brains.. so quit while you are ahead…Some countries do not grow GMO food.. and going shopping making sure you don’t buy anything made in America is a wise move, that is not organic… medicines.. you mean BIG Pharmas modern medicine.. well that is another story that this page is not really about.. Now now Jonathan Graham stop trying to put words in my mouth,, you know you talk rubbish so you want all to look as stupid…

  • Jonathan Graham

    Where did the no molecule of pesticides come in

    Well you said “covered in”. Is it only covered in? What about if it’s only “half covered”? I’d like to know the threshold.

    you mean BIG Pharmas modern medicine

    I mean any kind of medicine really. ASA for example. Is that making someone unhealthy?

  • Sue

    Well as America (CDC) has never bothered to test the health of children vaccinated vrs non vaccinated.. as they are in bed with BIG Pharma.. I guess the little people like you will continue to follow the leader, well those without much sense.. or you will just keep coming on sites like this you obviously disagree with as a Troll.. talking as much rubbish as you can.repeating stupid stupid questions over and over again, and never answering a question properly… if indeed you are a fencer.. go back to it.. hey do you know what # 8 wire is Mr Fencer..???? Then again you probably aren’t the type of fencer that works on farms.. Even though there are not many traditional American Farms left sadly…

  • Mike Stevens

    Yes, “Sue”, dear, dear, dear indeed.
    The claim was that chickenpox did not kill children.
    It is clear that it does.
    And I admit it happens uncommonly, but that wasn’t what the claim was now, was it.

    I do wonder why you bothered to post, yes.

  • Sue

    Are but not healthy children.. and please don’t tell me they are healthy and have excellent immune systems..
    I could not resist posting when i saw your name.. Mmm I thought blast from the past..

  • Mike Stevens

    Some who die are more vulnerable from illnesses, sure. The others are not.

    I am sad you don’t feel a need to help protect the vulnerable in our society, Sue.

  • Mike Stevens

    “see what i am saying Walllllyyyy Lol”

    We see what you are saying. And we are Lolling.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Well as America (CDC) has never bothered to test the health of children vaccinated vrs non vaccinated…as they are in bed with BIG Pharma

    Well a) I assume you mean entirely unvaccinated vs some level of vaccination. Ok, what probability of risk are you willing to accept?

    repeating stupid stupid questions over and over again, and never answering a question properly

    Well you haven’t answered my question and if there’s a question of yours that I haven’t answered. Please repost it. Your deliberate attempts to write oddly is probably getting in the way.

    hey do you know what # 8 wire is Mr Fencer..???? Then again you probably aren’t the type of fencer that works on farms

    Yes, it’s the wire that’s smaller in diameter the #7 and larger in diameter than #9 and as you well know I’m the kind of fencer who uses a sword.

  • Jonathan Graham

    and few people have done more over-all independent research, than I have

    Oh please. Just regurgitating long lists of links isn’t evidence of research or even an argument. The fact that virtually any challenge to your position is met with a logical fallacy. I think shows how ankle-deep your expertise really is.

  • Sonja Henie

    Snort! I was responding to this erudite comment:
    “Ha ha you said.. you said…”
    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/vactruth/why_the_chicken_pox_vaccine_makes_no_sense/#comment-2712677701

    You tell me what’s bratty! Sounds just like the mean girls in middle school.

  • Oh, that’s terrible. So we then traded chicken pox for increased cases shingles in all ages. Oh, so then they immediately made a shingles vaccine, and which is essentially the same thing as the chicken pox vaccine only in a stronger form for adults age 60 or older. Then they as well cooked up some bogus junk science studies funded by those with vested interests in vaccines, and guess what it showed, no increase in cases was found, and no increased risk at all of shingles was seen after the use of chicken pox, (varicella) vaccine. They never actually looked, and they are simply covering up the issue, and they are lying.

  • Sonja Henie

    Um, I believe you were referring to a decreased risk of brain cancer in people who’d had chickenpox. How d’you calculate that if everyone had it?

  • Thats not the point? Really? Then what is the point, and go ahead and put the details to it.

    Quite obviously it was and has been detailed here the comparison risks between being varicella vaccinated, and that regarding acquiring chicken pox and thus natural immunity. What do you not understand about, “natural chicken pox infection complications occur less than 1/100,000”? Nothing would ever be enough for you, and you know it.

    What about when a woman age 25 was varicella vaccinated as a child, never had varicella, and now her vaccine derived antibody titer’s have worn off and the vaccine no longer effective, and now she is pregnant at age 25 and is exposed to chicken pox and comes down with chicken pox? The risks involved in experiencing chicken pox is much higher as an adult, and the risk of resulting harm to the fetus, is as well very high. So in your world as long as all kids and grandma and grandpa get their shingles vaccines then no risk to anyone, exists? And do you have the science and the studies to show that? Get on with it.

  • I am quite aware of the subject matters being addressed here. I was replying however to your comment. And tell me, what was the point to your comment? And so you actually failed to directly reply to my post, and instead just reply with a question.

    [How d’you calculate that if everyone had it?]

    Perhaps you should first read the study. I didn’t calculate it, the study authors did.

    Brain Cancer Risk May Be Reduced in Those With History of Chicken Pox

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

    In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.]

    Read more:
    http://neurosciencenews.com/glioma-brain-cancer-chicken-pox-3942/

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Chicken pox and the increased risk of acquiring shingles

    Chicken pox vaccine associated with shingles epidemic

    New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

    New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

    Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

    Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Another recent peer-reviewed article authored by Dr. Goldman and published in Vaccine presents a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

    After a child has had varicella (chickenpox), the virus becomes dormant and can reactivate later in adulthood in a closely related disease called shingles–both caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). It has long been known that adults receive natural boosting from contact with children infected with chicken pox that helps prevent the reactivation of shingles.

    Based on Dr. Goldman’s earlier communications with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Goldman maintains that epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

    “Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine. “The principal reason that vaccinees in Japan maintained high levels of immunity 20 years following vaccination was that only 1 in 5 (or 20%) of Japanese children were vaccinated,” he said. “So those vaccinated received immunologic boosting from contact with children with natural chickenpox. But the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S. will nearly eradicate this natural boosting mechanism and will leave our population vulnerable to shingles epidemics.”

    For decades it was thought shingles increased with age as older individuals’ immune systems declined. However, Goldman’s new research shows this phenomenon seemed primarily due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children declined.

    Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.

    About Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D.: Currently serves as Founder and Editor-in- Chief of the peer-reviewed medical journal Medical Veritas (www.MedicalVeritas.com). Has recently authored five manuscripts concerning varicella, herpes zoster, and capture-recapture published in the European journal called Vaccine.

    Read more:
    http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx

    The Case against Universal Varicella Vaccination
    Gary S. Goldman
    http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/25/5/313.abstract

    Full text study
    http://www.tested.net/vaccines/goldman.pdf

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 1.

    Review of the United States universal varicella vaccination program: Herpes zoster incidence rates, cost-effectiveness, and vaccine efficacy based primarily on the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project data. Goldman GS1, King PG.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22659447

    Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster
    Gary S. Goldman
    http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/24/4/205.abstract

    Appendix X. Brief Summary of Chickenpox: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption

    1. Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., began to report an unexpectedly high shingles incidence rate among

    children while serving as Research Analyst for the Varicella Active Surveillance Project (VASP), one of three sites selected by the CDC to study the effect of the varicella vaccine on the population.

    13. Goldman independently published three manuscripts1,2,3 after overcoming the notice to “Cease and Desist” initiated by Dr. Laurene Mascola, Acute Communicable Disease Control

    Unit, Los Angeles Department of Health Services. Since VASP with funding from CDC was a public-funded study, data was not confidential and was available to any citizen through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

    1 Varicella susceptibility and incidence of herpes-zoster among children and adolescents in a community under active surveillance. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct. 1; 21(27-30):4238–42.

    2 Incidence of herpes-zoster among children and adolescents in a community with moderate varicella vaccination coverage. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct. 1; 21(27-30):4243–9.

    3 Using capture-recapture methods to assess varicella incidence in a community under active surveillance. Goldman G. Vaccine, 2003 Oct 1; 21(27-30):4250–55.

    Read more:
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Goldman-SummaryofChickenpoxVaccine1.pdf

    The Chickenpox Vaccine: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption book by Dr. Gary S. Goldman
    http://www.healthyworldstore.com/product-p/chickenpox%20vaccine%20pdf.htm

  • Sonja Henie

    Further exploration by me shows that the study shows those who had chickenpox had a lower risk of glioma in later life, which is interesting since most of the patients would have been kids pre-vaccine. Those who hadn’t had chickenpox would be a very small subset. Since the vaccine is live virus, maybe those who’ve had the vaccine have the same risk reduction as those who’ve had the disease, compared to those who haven’t had either (disease or vaccine).

    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-03-history-chicken-pox-brain-cancer.html

  • Actually read the study. How are you going to attain this outcome, when a person never had chicken pox and not even one single symptom of it? You are basing your suggesting conjecture on nothing but simply wishful thinking. People like you simply do not comprehend that vaccines do not accomplish and acquire the same outcome, nor do they provide for the same kind of immunity, that natural immunity does. Read as well the last paragraph of this selection from the full study.

    [Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma

    Discussion

    In our study, a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex. The protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade glioma, particularly among those under age 40. Our findings, which represent the results of the largest study to date on this topic, confirm the inverse associations previously reported in the literature on VZV and glioma.

    Findings from the previous literature, bolstered by those of our study, provide strong epidemiologic rationale for continued investigation of the potential role of chickenpox (or other manifestations of VZV infection) in glioma development [3, 8-13]. Future studies will need to account for the potential impact of the VZV vaccine, which was licensed in 1995 in the U.S. for use among children [2] (and therefore cannot be evaluated in the older population of the GICC).

    Prior serologic analyses have demonstrated that antibody composition differs between children who experience a wild-type VZV infection versus those who were received the vaccine [24]. Some evidence indicates that antibodies against specific VZV-encoded proteins (i.e., VZV ORF2 and IE63) may be more important than others in conferring protection against glioma [13], but the vaccine does not contain antigens corresponding to all 70 VZV open reading frames [1, 3, 24]. Thus, future research ascertaining whether the vaccine confers similar protection against glioma as the wild-type VZV infection is of high importance and may lend insight into the biological mechanisms at play.]

    Read more:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

  • Snort??? LOL. You simply again show and prove everything I have said, to be true; and as well obviously again with your existing high level of hypocrisy.

  • Is that why you fail every time and even though you refuse to admit it? You fail and because you refuse the independent research that shows you to be wrong each and every time. You simply keep on lying and making it up as you go. It must really suck for you to have to and need to live within such an obviously in denial and delusional mind.

  • Like I told you last night, go to the appropriate and current article and debate it. There are obviously more than enough statistics to show that said outcome. You simply refuse them, and again deny that vaccines had any involvement at all. Debating you is a waste of time and because you repeatedly refuse, and refuse the significance of any and all relevant information I also told you to end your cut and hack posting. Reply directly to a reply and the entire reply where it is reply posted, and directly below it.

  • I told you to end your cut and hack posting. Reply directly to a reply and the full reply, and directly below it. Your I have an cut and hack app no on else has …nonsense …is entirely ridiculous. That is how you are doing it.

  • My reference links are already in the reply post above. You simply ignored that information. So you get on with it, and get to addressing and refuting that information, and anything that you find that you disagree with, and can be verified what you say by any scientific source you can find. Just get on with it.

  • So, he is a corrupt and dangerous fraud, and as a fact. His blogging is worthless in the pursuit of any form of truth.

    Dr. David Gorski named in medical conspiracy allegations complaint filed with Karmanos Cancer Center and Michigan Attorney General. (Blogger at “science blogs” and author of so called, “Science Based Medicine).
    http://www.naturalnews.com/053736_Dr_David_Gorski_medical_conspiracy_allegations_Karmanos_Cancer_Center.html

    Professor David Gorski, a well-known online character assassin masquerading as a science defender

    Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line

    Excerpted: The more you read, the more you start to realize that there is a growing number of doctors, scientists, nurses, and other health care providers who have serious questions about the current vaccine paradigm favored by the pharmaceutical industry, government agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA), medical trade groups, and the mainstream media.

    Increasingly, professionals within a wide range of health care and science fields are giving interviews and writing articles and books voicing their concerns about vaccine risks, the misrepresentation of the historical role of vaccines in reducing mortality from infectious diseases, the expanding schedule and number of vaccines mandated, or even the basic mechanism theories behind vaccine science.

    Predictably, every time you give the name of a contrarian doctor or scientist in response to the 99.9% figure, what you tend to get is, “Eh, well, he’s a quack, she’s not credible.” Also, you get referred to blogs such as Science-Based Medicine,1 or Respectful Insolence,2 or the Skeptical Raptor’s Blog.3 They’re often written by or associated with a guy named David Gorski, MD, who also goes by the alias “Orac.” Gorski is a surgical oncologist and an assistant professor of surgery at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, MI.4

    Should you wish to debunk someone, anyone, who dares to disagree with mainstream thinking on vaccines, all you need do is inform Orac, and the good doctor will gladly oblige by writing up a boorish piece, long on insult and short on science. Orac’s methods are painfully predictable. In one piece earlier this year, he criticized a prominent immunologist5 who had the nerve to write an open letter on vaccine science to state legislators in California about to vote on a bill eliminating personal belief vaccine exemptions. He started out by dismissing the individual’s credentials outright. Orac writes:

    Read more:
    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/11/internet-trolls-attack-anyone-resisting-vaccine-party-line/

    “Science”Blogs: Seed Media’s Aggressive Weed
    Part I: Fertilizer From Pharma
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/scienceblogs-seed-medias-aggressive-weed.html

    Least We Forget the Blatant Cruelty of the Vaccine Industry and Their Propagandized Trolls and Shills
    http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2014/06/26/least-we-forget-the-blatant-cruelty-of-the-vaccine-industry-their-propagandized-trolls-and-shills/

  • Look at your hack job cut and paste nonsense above. What kind of a deception artist and literal psychic vampire creates an in denial, twisted, rambling, and insane mess like that?

  • Translation: You are doing the devils deliberately deceptive work. You are deceiving and lying about what you are actually doing. In your hypocrisy you are lying about me. And you have an obvious personal vendetta and an obsession with me, that refuses to give it up and no matter how wrong you are repeatedly shown to be. Paid to post, are you? Your level of sickness is all to obvious.

  • Lie about it again and again, all you want. Anyone that badgers someone over and over and with issues that have been already repeatedly hashed over and rehashed again repeatedly, is an abuser. You like in a land of endless and repeat denial, so called Graham.

  • You have already directly stated that was and is your intent, and you admitted to it; remember?

  • As always nothing ever was or ever will be enough. You must repeatedly continue to deny what you have already been provided.

  • You are what you are and the evidence of that is right here in front of you, and as well for any reader to determine. Deny it all you want.

  • The only way anyone could claim to that is to have never actually read the study. That or entirely disregarded the information in the study.

    Brain Cancer Risk May Be Reduced in Those With History of Chicken Pox

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    The large study validates earlier studies showing this link, Bondy said. “It provides more of an indication that there is some protective benefit from having the chicken pox,” she said. “The link is unlikely to be coincidental.”

    In the future, scientists may be able to apply the chicken pox vaccine to brain cancer research.]

    http://neurosciencenews.com/glioma-brain-cancer-chicken-pox-3942/

    Short Report

    You have full text access to this OnlineOpen article

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Abstract

    Varicella zoster virus (VZV) is a neurotropic α-herpesvirus that causes chickenpox and establishes life-long latency in the cranial nerve and dorsal root ganglia of the host. To date, VZV is the only virus consistently reported to have an inverse association with glioma. The Glioma International Case-Control Study (GICC) is a large, multisite consortium with data on 4533 cases and 4171 controls collected across five countries. Here, we utilized the GICC data to confirm the previously reported associations between history of chickenpox and glioma risk in one of the largest studies to date on this topic. Using two-stage random-effects restricted maximum likelihood modeling, we found that a positive history of chickenpox was associated with a 21% lower glioma risk, adjusting for age and sex (95% confidence intervals (CI): 0.65–0.96). Furthermore, the protective effect of chickenpox was stronger for high-grade gliomas. Our study provides additional evidence that the observed protective effect of chickenpox against glioma is unlikely to be coincidental. Future studies, including meta-analyses of the literature and investigations of the potential biological mechanism, are warranted.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Varicella and Shingles Vaccine – For Profit Quackery

    http://www.vacfacts.info/varicella-and-shingles-vaccine—for-profit-quackery.html

    Measles and Mumps Protect Against Heart Attack and Stroke

    http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/measles-and-mumps-protect-against-heart-attack-and-stroke/

    Studies show: Natural Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox & Influenza viruses protect against cancer

    http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2015/03/10/studies-show-natural-mumps-measles-chicken-pox-influenza-viruses-protect-against-cancer/

    Curr Top Microbiol Immunol. 2009; 330: 213–241.

    Measles virus for cancer therapy

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926122/

    Viera Scheibner was actually, right.

    Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)

    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at:http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

    Protective Effect of Childhood Measles Against Degenerative Diseases in Later Life

    The above study indicates that a lack of rash in measles is associated with an increased incidence of autoimmune and degenerative diseases in later life. As the rash is the means through which the toxin is expelled from the body, its absence leads to the measles virus remaining in the body. The widespread use of vaccination has led to the appearance of “atypical measles” and “mild measles” where no rash develops. This can expose children to diseases in later life.

    Read more:

    http://www.vaccines.me/articles/afcjt-protective-effect-of-childhood-measles-against-degenerative-diseases-in-later-life.cfm

    Measles Virus Infection Without Rash In Childhood Is Related To Disease In Adult Life.

    The Lancet, January 5 1985

    Abstract

    The presence of measles specific antibodies is usually taken as evidence of typical measles in the past; in the present study it was regarded as evidence of infection with measles virus, but not necessarily of the common disease accompanied by a typical rash. The association between a negative history of measles in childhood and certain diseases later in life was investigated by a historical prospective method, based on school health records combined with self-reporting in adulthood, and tests for specific IgG measles antibody. There was evidence of association between a negative history of measles, exposure in early life (possibly injection of immune serum globulin after exposure), and development of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours. It is suggested that the presence of measles virus specific antibodies at the time of acute infection interferes with development of specific cytolytic reactions, and enables intracellular measles virus to survive the acute infection. If this hypothesis is verified, use of immune serum globulin after measles exposure has to be reconsidered.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2885%2990961-4/abstract

    Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    A recent study found that women vaccinated with the measles vaccine pass on far less immunity to their offspring than women who are not vaccinated. Measles jab reduces inherited immunity

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/503025.stm

    Waning of Maternal Antibodies Against Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella in Communities With Contrasting Vaccination Coverage

    Conclusions. Children of mothers vaccinated against measles and, possibly, rubella have lower concentrations of maternal antibodies and lose protection by maternal antibodies at an earlier age than children of mothers in communities that oppose vaccination. This increases the risk of disease transmission in highly vaccinated populations.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.long

    The truth about the measles, natural immunity, and the vaccine

    http://www.vacfacts.info/the-truth-about-the-measles-natural-immunity-and-the-vaccine.html

    Vaccines Cause Chronic Immune System Dysregulation

    https://liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/

    Vaccine. 2008 Mar 25;26(14):1725-30. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2008.01.041. Epub 2008 Feb 13.

    Kinetics of asthma- and allergy-associated immune response gene expression in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from vaccinated infants after in vitro re-stimulation with vaccine antigen.

    Lahdenperä AI1, Nilsson LJ, Regnström K.

    Abstract

    The global expression of immune response genes in infants after vaccination and their role in asthma and allergy is not clearly understood. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study the involved cellular responses, since the expression of thousands of genes can be assessed simultaneously. Here, array technology was used to assess the expression kinetics of immune response genes with association to asthma and allergy in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) of five healthy infants after vaccination with Infanrix-Polio+Hib. At 12h after in vitro re-stimulation of the PBMC with pertussis toxin (PT) antigen, 14 immune response pathways, 33 allergy-related and 66 asthma-related genes were found activated.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336961

    Again, my information and my replies have been right on target and relevant, every time. There is absolutely nothing you will not deny and refuse the information on. Disrupt, distract, and to repeatedly attempt to mock the information, and the person posting it is the ONLY game you have going on here. Anyone with any honesty can see that.

  • Really? I think it is more than obvious that the varicella vaccine is not going to produce the same result as natural immunity. But it does say that more studies are needed, and that is exactly what we need is more studies in regard to those kind of issues. That is how science works and in a progressive manner through a series of studies coming to a final and reasonably well proven conclusion.

    History of chickenpox in glioma risk: a report from the glioma international case–control study (GICC)

    Discussion

    Findings from the previous literature, bolstered by those of our study, provide strong epidemiologic rationale for continued investigation of the potential role of chickenpox (or other manifestations of VZV infection) in glioma development [3, 8-13]. Future studies will need to account for the potential impact of the VZV vaccine, which was licensed in 1995 in the U.S. for use among children [2] (and therefore cannot be evaluated in the older population of the GICC). Prior serologic analyses have demonstrated that antibody composition differs between children who experience a wild-type VZV infection versus those who were received the vaccine [24]. Some evidence indicates that antibodies against specific VZV-encoded proteins (i.e., VZV ORF2 and IE63) may be more important than others in conferring protection against glioma [13], but the vaccine does not contain antigens corresponding to all 70 VZV open reading frames [1, 3, 24]. Thus, future research ascertaining whether the vaccine confers similar protection against glioma as the wild-type VZV infection is of high importance and may lend insight into the biological mechanisms at play.

    Read more:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

  • Your abuse accusations are a deliberate fabrication, and a hypocritical fabrication only within your own mind. Every statement I have made to you has been appropriate and well deserved. In fact considering the circumstances, I have been more than patient with you and as well more than reserved in simply not blasting you with what you really deserve. But then that is exactly what you want to provoke, and that is exactly what you want to happen. And again I told you to stop your hack job cut and paste of partial sentences and partial replies. Reply to the entire reply as it exists as to its wording, and directly below it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Is that why you fail every time

    Fail at what? Despite all those imaginary FB friend requests I’ve given you. I don’t even rate sentences with objects in them?

    As stated many times before:
    The only research we have discussed lately is a study about varicella having some weak protective effect on gliomas. A study that you say says clearly that it’s better to remain unvaccinated. Yet the study itself says this information says nothing about vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Which you seem to have agreed with. Perhaps because you don’t know how hypothesis testing works – I dunno.

  • Jonathan Graham

    There are obviously more than enough statistics

    that you refuse to produce. Now we have the foot-dragging portion of the show. Where Lowell makes an assertion and then spends all his remaining time explaining why he doesn’t have to defend it.

    P.S. – If you don’t want to talk about something in a particular thread. Don’t talk about it in a particular thread. This would seem an easy rule to understand.

  • Jonathan Graham

    told you to end your cut and hack posting.

    sorry Lowell you said there’s no social contract. So evidence suggests that you will be the same foot-dragging, illogical Lowell regardless of how I respond.

    Your I have an cut and hack app no on else has

    ROFL – I’m just typing like everyone else and I’m using the form of response which was popular in USENET because I think it’s clearer.

  • Jonathan Graham

    If I’m a liar than point out where I am using impolite terms – especially in greater frequency than you are. I agree that I like to use blockquotes for clarity and normally if someone politely asked to refrain I wouldn’t have a problem. However you have told me that even if I did that none of my requests to you would be similarly respected so I see no value in giving up clarity to talk to the same disrespectful, illogical, heel-dragging (and often abusive) Lowell Hubbs. Why would anyone?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again, I’m simply telling the truth. I can point out and do point out specific places where you use abusive and disrespectful speech. You can only make vague claims that replying itself is somehow abusive. That’s not the way this works. Sorry again.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Note the word “here”. So in the same way that we say “The sun rises in the east.” So we say: “Lowell Hubbs has got it wrong.”

  • Jonathan Graham

    nothing ever was or ever will be enough

    Wrong. As usuall.

    Provide a quote from the study that clearly and explicitly states. Getting vaccinated will increase your likelihood of glioma or if you provide a FORMAL argument based solely on statements in that selfsame study. By FORMAL argument I mean a series of enumerated statements, each which FORCES the next. By FORCE we mean it is a logical impossibility for the next statement to be false of the prior ones are true.

    Either of these would be sufficient to make your point. So clearly SOMETHING would be enough. Your kung-fu is just too weak to provide it.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You made a post without abusive or disrespectful speech. Congratulations.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The only way anyone could claim to that is to have never actually read the study.

    Then you should be able to provide a quote from the study which is effectively: “Getting vaccinated for VZV raises your likelihood of getting glioma.”

    Article excerpt: [They found a 21 percent reduced risk of developing glioma with a positive history of chicken pox. Furthermore, they identified the protective effective was greater in higher grade gliomas.

    ….and this quote does not say those words. Do you not understand how the positive, contrapositive, inverse and negative work?

  • Jonathan Graham

    I think it is more than obvious that the varicella vaccine is not going to produce the same result as natural immunity.

    And this is the problem Lowell you keep trying to dress up “I think” as “The study says”. It doesn’t and your only argument is a logical fallacy.

    In contrast I’ve spelled out a few things which I get that you may not understand but it still makes my argument infinitely stronger than yours – which is, as I’ve mentioned just a logical fallacy.

    So here’s a lesson in how you should have written this part.

    Well Jonathan what do you think of what the study says right here.

    Some evidence indicates that antibodies against specific VZV-encoded proteins (i.e., VZV ORF2 and IE63) may be more important than others in conferring protection against glioma, but the vaccine does not contain antigens corresponding to all 70 VZV open reading frames

    Doesn’t that mean that the vaccine is LESS likely to confer protection. See the rest here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.682/full

    Notice how I framed JUST the part relevant to the PRECISE bit I was talking about which is DIRECTLY referencing the argument being made?

    The answer to this is simply: No, it doesn’t. All that says is that SOME evidence (in this case somewhat weak evidence it’s petri disk science with N=200 only in people with multiple allergies) says that there is selectivity in the correlation between immune response and the proposed glioma resistance. It also says that the vaccine does not produce all immune responses. What it absolutely doesn’t say is that these groups are absent.

    What’s interesting is you don’t realize that your argument depends on the assumption that there is some generality to these results. That is the ~20% protective factor is spread somewhat evenly across people infected. If you don’t believe that then there’s no utility in getting chickenpox since you have no control over the antibody response you generate. Unless you are advocating that you can produce ORF24p through sheer force of will.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sorry no. Nobody deserves abuse Lowell. Again your attitude here is concordant with serial abusers: “They deserved it”, “They really deserved more”,”I’m the patient one”.

  • bsroon

    i object to the word “immunity” in connection to vaccines. There are NO immunities conferred – immunity is a life-long pass on getting that disease again. NEVER HAPPENS WITH VACCINES and today? MOST of the people getting infectious diseases are vaccinated to NOT get those diseases….

  • You are obviously one very sick individual, just face it. Face as well your deep level of twisted hypocrisy. Actually, no one could be more of a serial abuser, than you.

    Your intended mockery, complete denial of all vaccine injuries, and the false badgering that you do in regard to the actual vaccine truth, has failed. Face it, it has entirely failed. The only way you could actually believe that it hasn’t, is to think that all of humanity is as brainwashed and in denial as you are. To believe that you have not failed, is to believe that there are still one or two sheeple that exist out there and that can be yet convinced that more good id being done with vaccines, than harm. Actually if you realized it-it is to late for you and your type, and the vaccine truth information is everywhere. You can not hide it, and to do so is an entirely futile effort. So what has your time here reply posting, actually been worth. The answer is absolutely nothing. Other than personally harassing me for presenting with the vaccine truth, and in your attempting to mock me and everything I post, you have failed

    You have failed at everything but personally attacking me, and that you know does not matter to me in the slightest, and the least. Just another days work in exposing the truth, and the shills that oppose that work.

    The readers and the people that come to a site like this and its articles, are parents and individuals looking for the real vaccine truth. The only other people visiting this site, are in denial and to much to lose trolling shills like you. This site and its articles do a good job of presenting with the vaccine truth, and on all the current issues. What you continually and repeatedly attempt to do is turn all that into an open arena of repeated in denial vomit. That’s right, you disgust me, and your obvious level of in denial sickness is appalling.

    So who pays you? Is it someone that has a personal vendetta against me and what I do, and put forth? Why does it exist your endless persistence? Or is it just you that has that vendetta? Anyway, to be that sought after really shows what I am made of. Deny that all you want.

    You know that if you were to be required to reply post with even as much as facebook ACCT., or in any other way required to provide your identity here, you would never be seen here and/or ever seen reply posting heer again. Isn’t that right? You know it is, and because people like you are always nothing but lying and hiding cowards. Just admit it; you would not and could not reply post here if you were required to provide an actual identity. Yes, or no? If yes, then prove me wrong as to what I just stated?

  • So what you are attempting to make yourself believe is that somehow the vaccine has just as good an antibody response as natural immunity, and you are even attempting to reply that it may even be just as good or better. So essentially you are speculating an argument that does not live up to any form of existing study science, and that as well exists as having the potential to be nothing but a logical fallacy.

    In fact in view of the study, the information in that study and as as you noted, clearly presents with an outcome that needs to be realized, and that is that the vaccine can not do what natural immunity has done.

    More studies in regard to the role of the varicella vaccine are needed, and as it says; but based on this study and its wording, inevitably the varicella vaccine is all to likely to end up the loser. These are the kinds of studies that should have been done decades ago, and never were done. If they had been, and the necessary follow up studies as well been done; then we would now have the clear picture today, as to what is really going on with vaccines.

    Remember as well that no vaccine has ever been studied and nor adequately for its carcinogenic potential. It states that right in the vaccine product inserts.

  • It states in that the study that a varicella vaccine comparison study needs to be done That kind of study should have already been done, decades ago. Just one more reason to REJECT vaccines, and as the proper vaccine safety studies have never been done.

    And I told you to directly reply to the post that is made, and as it was made in its entirety, and directly below it. You continue to refuse to do so.

    [You do not understand how the positive, contrapositive, inverse and negative work]

    Those words sound like the twisted and deceptive work, of the devil himself.

  • And you are the most lying, twisted, abusive, disrespectful, hypocritical, and intentionally mocking all vaccine truth information and anyone that puts it forth, reply poster I have ever replied against. Congratulations.

  • Sonia Henie is nothing but a mindless advocate for the promotion of infant and childhood vaccine injury. It must be so honorable to have her like your twisted reply posts.

    You keep replying with the same thing in repeat reply posts. Again, the study is actually very damning as to the issues of the benefits of natual immunity to varicella, and if you think a further study will show equal benefits in regard to brain cancer glioma, then I think you are simply again more than delusional. Just face it. You are in deep denial of the harm that vaccines have done, and you stubbornly refuse to face it. So who pays you?

  • So called Jonathan Graham and who actually has no real identity here, has got it wrong, and you are again lying. You directly stated that your intent in reply posting here, was mockery. Face it, and admit it.

  • You deserve absolutely no respect. Why are you falsely insinuating that you deserve respect, and thus keep demanding that you get respect? You obviously do not deserve any respect. You do not even as much as respect human life, and the life and created good health of a child and.or infant. Toxic and contaminated multiple vaccines have stolen all of that from many children and their families.

    Even if vaccines worked as advertised , (and as well historically) and as we have been falsely through loads of false propaganda, told’ (and they have not), the CDC has a responsibility and a duty to present with the very real risks, and in honesty. They never will, and simply because they have everything to lose if they did. The liability factors alone would finish them. “What did you know, and when did you know it”? They clearly have known, all along.

  • You are being abusive in just as much as your denial and in repeat replies asking for proof of what is all to obvious. In your world there is never any proof existing of anything ever, at all. I have better things to do with my time than repost your replies, fool. Get over it and your lying and denying arrogance.

  • It is not available as an option that that the vactruth site provides. So I suggest that you decide to play fair and like everyone else does. But YOU are so extra special here, right? Wow, is your mind ever twisted. Sick sick stuff.

  • The only foot dragging going on here is your own. You ignore the endless reply posts I have made on theses articles, and which as provided that information. You ignore my website that provides that information. And the only obvious intent that you have here is just to continue to waste my time; and all while you continue to endlessly ignore and deny the obvious.

    Unlike you, I reply to directly to a posted reply, in its entirety; and I do not use a hacked up process of intended and deliberate confusion for the readers, and with partial sentences taken out of context, and as well with left behind previous reference information. Your tactics are simply corrupt, and just as corrupt as the promotion of entire forced and mandated CDC vaccine program, and its vaccination schedules.

  • That was the only one you discussed, but not the only one I provided as a total picture of what goes on with vaccines in regard to the adverse effects on human health.

    You just keep on harassing time after time about this, and over an over regarding the same subject matter of that single study. Most honest people can clearly see the value of that said study, and what it points to. Your endless denial is your problem, and yours alone; however you continue to attempt to take that out on me. How is that working, do you look in denial insane enough, now? Repeat, repeat. Nothing would ever be enough, ever.

  • Have you read the study, yet?

  • Sue

    Oh Mikey intelligent as usual Lol ….

  • Sue

    No it is sad you think that the children who once were healthy need to become the vulnerable as to the vaccines damage they end up with.. ask the families that have had to deal with such tragedies..

  • Mike Stevens

    Yes, I am. Unlike you.

  • Sue

    Oh sadly with all your parrot posting you can not even remember what you posted..lol of i that your subterfuge.. sad sad…. Mr Fencer.. go back to fencing you haven’t got a clue

  • Jonathan Graham

    You are obviously one very sick individual, just face it. Face as well your deep level of twisted hypocrisy.

    Bullying.

    Actually, no one could be more of a serial abuser, than you.

    I’ve pointed out that you use abusive speech. You have a tendency to blame the target of your abusive speech as the cause. I’ll also point out that you clearly have no desire to solve problems. It’s all about controlling someone else or demeaning them when you can’t control them.

    Your intended mockery, complete denial of all vaccine injuries

    I don’t deny all vaccine injuries.

    The rest of your post is barely cogent. So I’ll stop here. Sorry. Perhaps if you can be more polite and rational?

  • Sue

    A central aspect of narcissism is grandiosity. That is, narcissists tend to think highly of themselves. In particular, they tend to have a positive view of themselves compared to other people.

  • Most drivers who get into fatal accidents were sober at the time – does this make it safer to drive drunk?

  • No.

    0% risk is impossible no matter what we do.

  • Sue

    OMG you are so stupid.. he means butchering.. You are more stupid than any poster I have ever read.. poor wee man..

  • Jonathan Graham

    somehow the vaccine has just as good an antibody response as natural immunity

    An illness doesn’t produce a single antibody response. If it did you would have no way to determine that the alleged protective effect is specific.

    Have you figured out your error(s) yet?

  • Jonathan Graham

    It states in that the study that a varicella vaccine comparison study needs to be done

    Ok, can you tell me why? Without quoting, in your own words. What does it say? Don’t know – do you? Let me guess – you already said it and you can’t produce a quote where you did and you refuse to answer any clarifying questions on your poorly worded response. Did I capture you correctly?

    Also *THIS* exchange was amusing:
    Me:

    You do not understand how the positive, contrapositive, inverse and negative work

    You:

    Those words sound like the twisted and deceptive work, of the devil himself.

    They are fundamental elements of logic. I suppose It’s not exactly surprising that they are lost on you.

  • Jonathan Graham

    As I’ve mentioned before. I’m just politely telling the truth. Bullies like yourself need to be stood up to.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Sonia Henie is nothing but a mindless advocate for the promotion of infant and childhood vaccine injury.

    Disrespectful, abusive, perhaps misogynistic. Quit it.

    You keep replying with the same thing

    You said “nothing would be enough” and I provided a very clear response as to what would be enough and you can’t provide it.

    You were wrong. Deal for once in your life.

  • Jonathan Graham

    So called Jonathan Graham and who actually has no real identity here

    English please.

    You directly stated that your intent in reply posting here, was mockery.

    Nope, you can’t read. :-)

  • Jonathan Graham

    You are being abusive in just as much as your denial and in repeat replies asking for proof of what is all to obvious.

    Asking politely for evidence and not agreeing with you are not abusive. Your repeated name-calling and bullying on the other hand.

    I have better things to do with my time than repost your replies

    So where I can and have pointed out places where you have been abusive – which you seem to agree with and seem to claim it is abuse that is deserved – you can not.

  • Jonathan Graham

    You deserve absolutely no respect.

    So you admit you are being disrespectful? The Disqus ToS is pretty clear that you are required to be respectful. I await your attempt to weasel and argue that somehow only be disrespected when you deserve respect.

  • Jonathan Graham

    It is not available as an option that that the vactruth site provides.

    Do you not realize that vactruth has nothing to do with the features supplied in the comment section? Disqus is the engine that the comments work off. All sites that use Disqus have the same features – the only options are being able to flag words for moderation, and how it handles media like links and uploading pictures.

    I’m just typing into the text box on the Disqus widget on the vaxtruth site just like everyone else. So please stop making up elaborate fictions to harass people about.

  • Jonathan Graham

    The only foot dragging going on here is your own.

    Every question I ask of you simply results in pages of evasions on why you don’t have to answer it to my satisfaction. Your usual response now is to pretend that I have some impossibly high standards or that you don’t have the time. These are all evasions proven time and time again.

    Unlike you, I reply to directly to a posted reply

    I generally respond to a post in the thread it’s in and in a form that I consider the most clear.

  • Jonathan Graham

    That was the only one you discussed,

    and I’m happy to discuss others when you show some ability at choosing ones that clearly make your point, and framing them properly – the way most long-form papers are written. You have said that you refuse to do this. So here we are examining one at a time.

    So far all you can’t produce any wording directly from this paper which clearly supports your point. So again, this is just your belief. I’ve explained several times why it’s wrong and I’m happy to explain again – because I know that it sometimes takes multiple

    You just keep on harassing

    I am calmly and politely responding to your posts. When you stop responding I’ll very likely not pursue it. So it is impossible for this to be harassment. :-)

    Nothing would ever be enough

    What is sufficient evidence has been clearly provided to you and unlike you I’m happy clarify or repeat. You don’t have this excuse anymore. Stop making up excuses to harass people.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Again I said:

    Well you said “covered in”. Is it only covered in? What about if it’s only “half covered”? I’d like to know the threshold.

    You haven’t answered this. I also asked

    I mean any kind of medicine really. ASA for example. Is that making someone unhealthy?

    You haven’t answered this either.

  • Jonathan Graham

    Yawn. I’ve provided the requirements for the discussion to progress. Ergo I’m not evading anything. If he has a comment or question he is welcome to bring it up.

  • bwf309

    Oh grasshopper, you are so silly with your apples and kale analogies.

  • bwf309

    Lowell as you know Jenny or Grasshopper or any of a number of other names she has used is calling herself today, loves to argue minute points just for practice. She doesn’t make sense except in the convoluted logic of “vaccines are wonderful and prefect” world.

  • So?

    You may not be able to compare apples to oranges (as the saying goes) but you can compare arguments about apples to arguments about zebras or kale or any other random thing since it’s the logic we’re concerned about.

  • pHarma

    Here is the United Kingdoms Public Health Service pages about Chicken Pox, one of which details why they do not include it in their routine vaccination plan but reserve it for those with specific risk characteristics. This is a rational approach. http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1032.aspx?CategoryID=62&SubCategoryID=63 .
    Here is their overview page about Chicken Pox http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chickenpox/Pages/Introduction.aspx .
    There is a screen capture in this collection, slide 3, https://www.scribd.com/doc/120430481/CDC-MMRV-Vaccine-Data-Safety-Link-Slides shows the UK PHC Ataxia group did a review of studies and found that less than 1 in 100,000 natural Chicken Pox infections had a serious complication. If 100,000 kids contract the natural infection they experience the course of illness described on the UK CP page. Fever around 100, lethargy, uncomfortable scabs for week, post infection lifetime immunity including reduced risk of brain cancer and astha and dermatitis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22017482/ .
    This compares to giving 100,000 children Chicken Pox vaccinations, which cost upfront $88 each (and require another booster, if not two) http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/ .
    Depending on what combination of vaccines are administered the majority of children will experience a fever just slightly less than the natural infection. 15,000 to 22,000 will experience a multi day illness with a fever in excess of 102f. Up to 3,000 will return return to the Doctors office for an outpatient fever visit for reassurance this is “normal”. 25 to 80 will be admitted to the ER for a Febrile seizure. All disclosed in the CDC FAQ’s and VSD Studies. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-vaccines/mmrv/vacopt-factsheet-hcp.pdf

  • bwf309

    You like to argue… period, and in so doing you forget or dismiss the point of the argument grasshopper. The fact that chickenpox is mild disease that imparts life time immunity trumps the financial needs of the drug company and your need for tidy little boxes of people who can be classified as “immunized” Of course we know that less than half of those inoculated will actually show any signs of immunity and that immunity is of a poor quality compared to the naturally acquired immunity.
    Bottom line you look for any reason to argue fine points of minuscule importance.

  • Citation needed.

  • Sue

    ha ha Jonathan Graham the joke.. what planet are you on.. seriously go back to fencing.. the great out doors. Clear that head of yours.. as it seems you really do not have a clue what you are about…you are tedious just plain tedious…

  • Jonathan Graham

    This needn’t be tedious if you could answer trivially simple questions about your position. Once again, I said:

    Well you said “covered in”. Is it only covered in? What about if it’s only “half covered”? I’d like to know the threshold.

    You appear unable to answer this question as well as this one:

    I mean any kind of medicine really. ASA for example. Is that making someone unhealthy?

    Perhaps because you don’t really know what you’re talking about?

  • Sue

    Where did I say covered in.. Goodness me .. tedious….

  • Jonathan Graham

    that live on GMO food.. and their foods are covered in pesticides.

    Just up there. Yes it is tedious if you don’t remember what you said and have no desire to read what you wrote.

  • bsroon

    Dear Jenny – i think your argument specious at best. THERE IS NO IMMUNITY from vaccines PERIOD! You NEVER get permanent protection, AND if you get those diseases later in life – as vaccines pretty much force much of the population to experience today – they are much more dangerous. i personally have permanent childhood disease developed immunity to chicken pox, measles, mumps, and who knows what all else i was not told about? PERMANENT – and you can never achieve that, nor any of your shot-up friends. That’s point one – you are pretending that the immunity is real when it is proven to AT BEST provide some temporary protection. In fact – because so many people have compromised immune systems, there is a percentage of people who will not even develop an antigen response.
    In order to develop permanent immunity yourself, and herd immunity – you need a humoral response to the infectious disease. You CANNOT GET A HUMORAL RESPONSE FROM SUB-CUTANEOUS AND INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION OF VACCINE PATHOGENS!!! (and their toxic heavy metals, poisonous chemicals, etc)

    In fact there is a peculiar scientific term out there, called “Original Antigenic Sin” which shows the PROBLEMS in getting vaccinated. It was studier re: flu shots, but likely applies to ALL vaccines in similar manner. When you get a flu shot, IF you develop an antigen response and later come in contact with ANY variant on the influenza pathogen spectrum – YOUR BODY EXPENDS MUCH ENERGY FIGHTING THE LAST WAR as it replicates the antigens it made for that flu shot. This is why getting flu shots makes your body less efficient in fighting the flu. You have a better response if you don’t get flu shots.

    So by putting all these poisons into the body (unnecessarily in my opinion, but i’m somewhat hardcore – yet i don’t care what you want to do – go jab yourself all you want, lol) you AVOID YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM!!! Natural immune systems function by starting your fight at the mucosal membranes with the probiotics there, continue into your intestinal tract where the probiotics THERE constitute about 70 – 90% of your entire immune system. Then your thymus, lymph system and so much more are involved, and eventually your macrophages learn to fight the pathogens you contacted. NONE of that happens when you get “Jabbed” – and so it is biochemically impossible for you to develop a humoral response to vaccines. Period, end of argument. NO IMMUNITY! No herd immunity.

    You can see this play out in the real world – 2005, S Korea had a small chicken pox problem and in several stages increased vax compliance to the point that now 97% of the infants 18(?) months and younger are vaxxed for chicken pox, and about 95% of the general population now. EVERY TIME they increased the vaccination rate – the number of disease cases AND outbreaks INCREASED – it didn’t drop.

    Currently, the S Korean chicken pox rate is TRIPLE the 2005 rate. So much for herd immunity. We could point out a province in China with 99% measles vax rates – and 707 outbreaks last year. No herd immunity. None. Never.

    So your arguments are lame in my mind. i’m sure you’re reading all the approved stuff, and like me you want to have people be safer and healthier. We just differ because we have different bodies of knowledge. i know why the polio vaccine never helped stop polio – you likely do not. i know how the smallpox vaccine made things worse, you may not. i knew about the Original Antigenic Sin, the Canadian Flu “Paradox” (vaccinate a specific population group heavily with flu shot and they ALWAYS have increased flu rates) and a lot more. i know that Autism has definitely been linked to autism – and of course, autism is nowhere close to the only problem SOME people get from vaccination. For people to state “autism is proven to not be caused by vaccines” is therefore a stupid argument because it implies we only have to worry about ONE health consequence, when there are hundreds of health problems linked to vaccines. If that weren’t true, the vax mfgrs wouldn’t have convinced Reagan to make you pay for the damages for their products as they lost too much money in lawsuits where vaccine damages were PROVEN time and again. So in 86 – you started paying for your own damage awards through the govt VICP (vaccine injury compensation program) and have paid over 3 billion dollars. DC couple was just awarded SIXTY ONE MILLION DOLLARS for an infant permanently damaged with multiple neurological damages from the TDaP or DTap – days ago.

    You – down below – cite the last gasp, fake argument – “citation needed”.

    Let’s turn THAT one around on you, okay? Cite your proof that vaccines work as promised – when the flu inserts themselves state that they are NOT proven to reduce your chance of getting the flu, that there are no safety studies for pregnant women, in utero infants, or infants breastfeeding. So – the shot isn’t proven to work, may or may not damage your baby – but they assure you they have “proven” that it is good in these situations???? That is called scientific retardation, my friend.

    YOU need to cite the study which proves that vaccination is more effective than not being vaccinated – but wait – this can’t be done. Even though Congress has TOLD the CDC to do these studies for decades – they never do so because they know people would only take a very few vaccines in that case – and they’d lose BILLIONS. The studies of non-vaccinated people show that across the board, the unvaccinated are much healthier. Lower ear infection rates in infants, lower food allergy rates, asthsma rates, allergies, hospital visits, ADD/ADHD, you can practically name a new health threat kids are facing – and unvaccinated kids have less risk.

    The problem? Dutch people PRIVATELY funded the study – so your “JABBER” gurus don’t accept it. The German study was voluntary – so it is rejected as not being valid – and the morons in the JABBER crowd point at these as though somehow this proves the vaccines safe!!! At the very least, it shows that the unvaccinated are more healthy and this in an INTELLIGENT mind says – we need to set up a study which we can accept. But they don’t. This disingenuousness is part of a dishonesty spectrum perpetuated by the drug pusher crowd.

    Hopefully, as others become aware of the flawed “logic” and bad science behind much of the vax agenda, we will retain our right to NOT BECOME YOUR MEDICAL SLAVE, and like in my Calif – have unconstitutional “laws” (SB277 – null and void from the moment of signing) which allows the state to practice medicine ON YOU without a license, and violate 2 aspects of it’s own state constitution, and the US Constitution. This is why that “law” is illegitimate.

    I am not your slave. i don’t have to take any medical treatment that anyone else wants to foist off on me. Period. And i will defend that right to the furthest point – this is my drawn line – you have NO authority over my body whatsoever – so mandatory vaccination? Stupid, ineffective idea to supporty mythical vax traits – for $$$$. Anti-constitutional and an imposition upon your HUMAN rights. You know, those pesky “inherent and inalienable” rights RECOGNIZED (not granted) by the constitution? Inherent – they are yours because you exist as a human. Inalienable – NO person or organization has legitimate authority to take those freedoms from you or i.

    My line in the sand.

  • “Learn how to fight pathogens.”

    That’s exactly what vaccines DO – they are;’training dummies’ showing a dead, weakened or pieces of a pathogen so that the immune system learns before encountering it in the wild exactly how to fight that particular pathogen.

    (That is obviously the babytalk version.”

  • bsroon

    As i THOUGHT (lol) i clearly pointed out, sub-cutaneous and intramuscular injections cannot and do not do the same things as the natural immune processes. Therefore – biochemically, which your and my body’s both have to follow – the permanent immunity and herd immunity from vaccination is not possible at all. Sorry – but that is the way were designed, and you can’t overcome that with wishes and poisons.

    The best the vaccines can do is temporary protection via some cell-mediated response, and some antigen response, but this is not always happening. About (depending on the science you read) 4-6% of people will have zero antigen response because of???? (compromised immune systems being likely?) These people get no benefit whatsoever.

    One of the shots the nurse was mandated to get was the pertussis vaccine. As stated, the pertussis vaccine cannot prevent whooping cough because it has NO viral fragments of whooping cough virus to stimulate protection against. None. None at all. None whatsoever – the whooping cough virus exudates (secretions and excretions from the virus itself) are considered more toxic than the whooping cough virus. All the pertussis vaccines that had whooping cough viral fragments made LOTS of whooping cough.

    Essentially, no whooping cough (pertussis) vaccines can prevent anyone from getting the viral infection at all, but IF you get the whooping cough,it is supposed to be protective from the toxic by-products of the viral infection…

    As a side note, not specific to this or the last post – did you note that the TDaP vax insert states that one potential adverse event that can come from that vaccine is autism???

  • Whooping cough protects you against pertussis toxins.

    Natural Immunity – you are free to enjoy this in the privacy of your own home.

  • Yeh.

    Scientists have thought about this permanent protection thing and accounted for it. Boosters.

    Natural Immunity to pertussis is not lifelong.

  • bwf309

    LOL, there you go. Read the article above and go to the citations yourself. Jenny Minutia Higgs – Grasshopper

  • That’s the whole bloody POINT – we don’t WANT them to do the same thing as natural immune processes since that involves delayed immune response (primary) to virulent pathogens and this delay is enough to cause damage or death.

  • bsroon

    Uhm – measles vaccines kill, are causing intestinal dysbiosis with multiple complications including increased food allergies (can be fatal of course) mental issues, neurological issues etc. MOST OF THE PEOPLE GETTING MEASLES ARE VACCINATED AND PRETTY OLD – this means they have MUCH greater chance of being more severely harmed than i did as a child.

    i grew up when we almost ALL got at least the measles, mumps, chicken pox, many the whooping cough, etc. NOBODY THOUGHT ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!! How come? Because it was not dangerous. Let me frame it this way – i am one of 8 kids from the SW side of Chicago – a substantial school population. Our family was in school from 1954 into the mid 80s. Together, we went to school with tens of thousands of students – and nobody we know died from an infectious disease, or became permanently damaged. We had a little fever, couple splotches, itched too much to enjoy – but many of us preferred to be out of school, lol – and we went on. We enjoy PERMANENT immunity, had what appeared to be zero risk, even if there was an extremely minute risk – and now vaccines have changed that dynamic for the worse.

    Now – as i said – you have older people at greater risk. Look at that total mumps vaccine failure at Harvard. Some people – who WERE UP TO DATE on their vax schedule ended up with FOUR MUMPS SHOTS and still got it. EVERY PERSON INFECTED W/MUMPS AT HARVARD IS VACCINATED and virtually all of them FULLY. Point A) the vaccines AREN’T WORKING. Point B) these people are at greater risk than my childhood with thousands of gently infected people getting sick and over it in a few days, when it was LESS risky – and we have permanent (real, not fake vax) immunity from that experience.

    i know the industry wants you to think your are in grave danger if you bump into a measles virus – well, you don’t live in Chad, drinking water from puddles with animal feces in it. You don’t have malnourishment, making you a very susceptible host. You have sanitation and hygiene, don’t have to send your 5-yr old daughter 3 miles to a crocodile infected river like some places in Africa – SO YOU DON’T HAVE THAT RISK!! If you GET the measles – by god – do what they did in the 1930s – take vitamin A supplements!! PROVEN to reduce symptoms, severity, and duration of measles – AND proves a nutritional factor involved. (hmmm people trying to grow GMOs with vitamin A for these areas, COULDN’T be any link…)

    As you state below in your first sentence – it protects you from the toxins of the whooping cough shot NOT FROM GETTING THE WHOOPING COUGH, SINCE THERE ARE NO WHOOPING COUGH VIRAL COMPONENTS IN THAT SHOT. Therefore to fire her for “being infectious” because she didn’t accept getting a shot that won’t help ANYONE prevent getting whooping cough is disingenuous at best – but then – 95% of MDs have no training in biochemistry or nutrition and are thus incapable of helping people heal theirselves. They know drugs. They know drugs from drug dealers. Drug dealers rave about drugs and have the (bad) studies to “prove” it….

    Where is YOUR citation about vaccines being safe, about vaccinated people being healthier than the unvaccinated – right here in the US – let’s start right there before an irrelevance raises it’s head, lol.

    (doing these posts off the top of my head btwn fixing the hay baler, doing garden work, delivering eggs, getting the irrigation system repaired from the AG business types that killed it over the last dozen years….)

  • bsroon

    And yet, there is still no permanent protection. The boosters fail to work also, look at Harvard. Look at ANY outbreak. Last year – NY state – 90% of the infected people were vaccinated. Ohio – mumps – 97% of the infected were vaccinated, etc etc. They fail in their “protection”. Some is likely developing variations in disease strains, some is the guesswork of the CDC (has a Dun & Bradstreet listing at their Atlanta address, and gets big bucks from the flu shots they push every year even when they are known ineffective – 18 patents by CDC) not being close to right. But get the (wrong) vaccine anyway…

    Again, the vaccination paradigm falls short in my book – and in many people’s considered opinions BECAUSE IT WORKS AGAINST NATURE and your immune system, not with it. It literally damages your immune system.

    There are likely to be diseases out there which do not have a permanent immunity development – colds, flus, no doubt others and you mention pertussis there. Well, if my body can make antigens and cell remediated responses to the virus involved from a vaccine – it can certainly fight it better (considering the immune system to be in the same shape) if i get it in a more natural manner and elicit the macrophages, the lymphatic system, the organs of elimination, the probiotics, thymus, etc etc IN ADDITION to the antigen/cell mediated response.

    Since many vaccines are shown to damage intestinal flora – the huge portion of your immune system – and tweak the 2% of your immune system comprised of antigen/cell mediated response – it seems foolish to go this route to me. Convince me that it is intelligent to damage the lion’s share of my body’s protective immune system to tweak a tiny percentage of response which i would end up with in a natural system anyway.

    Oh – i’d be remiss if i did not point out that nature DOES INJECT MATTER SUB-CUTANEOUSLY AND INTRAMUSCULARLY. Technically my saying so in another post is inaccurate. Think; black widow and brown recluse. Scorpion. Wasps. Bees, Rattlesnakes, cobras, and gila monsters. Funnel web spiders and the like. i’ve had a honey locust thorn go through over a half-inch of shoe sole, one inch into my foot, and break the hard tip off inside my arch. It started making pus WITHIN 5 MINUTES! Which was thankfully, enough to get that tip ejected….

    So, like putting poisonous compounds inside our musculature and under our skin – nature DOES INDEED DO THIS TOO.

  • Yeah, but you’d have to get sick first in a natural system.

    Of course, nature injects SC – rose thorn.

    Exactly – so doesn’t it stand to reason that we might have some way of dealing with things that enter that route?

  • bsroon

    Well the rose doesn’t have aluminum, neurotoxins, and polysorbate 80 to help those toxins (and the other toxic ingredients) across the blood/brain barrier – but yes for the non-toxic there is generally a bodily response. NOT the same as the full immune system developing macrophages or permanent immunity of course.

    As for some? Nope, no option. My wife almost died from a brown recluse bite. Thought it was a tiny white head at first – so she tried to get it out. It turned red a little – she thought it was a slightly infected hair follicle. Then it got worse to the point that she thought it was a boil (rotten intestinal putrefaction coming out in a weak spot, generally) finally she went into an ER and they said they were about a day from cutting off her leg OR being too late to save her life.

    Friend when working at the Natl Parachute Test Range had been bitten by a black widow – his right knee swelled up to the size of a basketball, and his skin split open…. so there are not always solutions to these issues – and they don’t develop immunity, lol. What’s REALLY gross, is that brown recluse bites are basically infectious scratches without any solution short of cutting them out (quarter sized hole in my wife’s back of the leg – all the way to the bone!) and they are there TO FEED HER BABIES ON THE ROT OF YOUR BODY!!! Oooooh GROSS!

  • Of course the rose has aluminum – it’s the third most common element on earth for christ’s sake.

    Formaldehyde too since it’s part of biosynthesis.

    And there is no al in vaccines – learn the difference between compounds and elements.

  • bsroon

    Just lost the video card on my laptop and have to use this draft-horse powered old ‘puter. The laptop will someday be a transferred hard drive. It has about a hundred permaculture videos, farming information, pdf files for equipment, links to sources of all sorts – and over 300 articles, data sets, graphs, biochemical processes, interviews, medical reports and abstracts – all on JUST the vaccines. Then of course i have tons of information regarding the failure of the US “health” system to do anything positive regarding stomach acidity issues, diabetes, MS/ALS/Parkinsons/Alzheimers (all have a myelin sheathing component) heart disease, cancer, etc. AND better, natural solutions.

    So thanks, but i’m going with what i’ve come to trust – and like the senior editors of the NEJM and Lancet – i don’t trust the published studies today, even if they claim peer review. These editors state that without doubt about 50% of the published studies today are worthless. Mostly because of fraud in various forms.

    Peer review – isn’t that the process by which Galileo got in trouble? Oh yes, yes it was….. (Lol)

  • Sonja Henie

    bsroon-90%-97% vaccinated does not mean that 90-97% of vaccinees got sick. Not by a long shot (no pun intended). It means the 90-97% of cases had the vaccine. But, and this is a big but, in MA, fully vaxed means ONE dose of mumps vaccine. The CDC recommendation is two doses.

  • That’s what replication is for, you fool.

  • Sonja Henie

    The whooping cough vaccine protects against whooping cough disease, your inadequate understanding of how vaccines work notwithstanding.

  • Right.

    This is 5th grade maths.

    Lurkers:

    Yes, most people who got into fatal accidents were sober at the time – this is because there are more of them to begin with but drunk drivers are overrepresented in fatal accidents.

    Bsroon’s logic applied to this different scenario would suggest that drunk driving is safer – does this really sound likely to you?

  • Sue

    There you go again fencer boy playing with words.. I know what I said it is you who is a little mixed up.. so you grab some other words and do not have them in a complete sentence as they were intended.. you go back with the desire and check buddy…. Oh you are so very very tedious… those fences are awaiting..

  • bsroon

    Let’s just ignore that recent SIXTY ONE MILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT by the govt “vax courts” VICP which “awarded” (sounds like a winning prize, no?) the damages for the DTaP vaccine.
    The acellular pertussis vaxes came about because the whole cell vaccines were killing a lot of kids. They sued the drug pushers – manufacturers – who forced the govt to either abandon vaccination or give the drug makers immunity from prosecution. The only REAL immunity in the vax programs.

    When the DTaP (and TDaP for those over age 10) were developed – there was NO PLACEBO test – so it did better than the OLD vax – which was known to be dangerous and kill people. Probably could have injected peanut butter and done as well, no? In these studies the attrition rate was horrible – and no reason given for why the children were removed from the study. One can logically assume – the shots were causing problems – or they would have stayed on. We can assume they weren’t pulled because they objected to Dr Seuss stories or something – it was another case of bad science.

    This is from the Tripedia site – it is stil used in the US, mostly in conjunction with ActHiB and TriHiB vaxes.. “Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine
    include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic
    reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion,
    encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were
    included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of
    reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a
    population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably
    estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to
    components of Tripedia vaccine.”

    When i look at the KINRIX insert – it is just loaded with bad science! Not tested for safety for kids under 4, or from 7-16. It is tested against OTHER VACCINES and multiple vaccines are administered at the same time!!! This is SLOPPY as any vax may be responsible for any adverse reaction that is reported….

    THESE are the clowns that you trust, when they are simply NOT doing something as simple as having a vaccine comparison btwn comparable groups of people (age, economics, geographic location, etc) in which some are vaccinated AND SOME SIMPLY ARE NOT VACCINATED.

    i can promise you – those people getting vaccinated will (not always, but the majority of the time) be significantly less healthy than the unvaccinated crowd. This is shown by the Amish communities (no autism for one thing) the dutch study, and the voluntary german study. The unvaccinated children are substantially healthier.

  • Sonja Henie

    Gish Gallop!

    You’re about 5 years late to the Tripedia party. It has not been manufactured in the US since 2011.
    http://www.ashp.org/menu/DrugShortages/DrugsNoLongerAvailable/bulletin.aspx?id=764

    It is a bold-faced lie that the Amish don’t vaccinate, and it’s also a bold faced lie that Amish kids are healthier.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I know what I said

    Then you know you said

    and their foods are covered in pesticides

    If you no longer mean that, then just say so.

    do not have them in a complete sentence as they were intended

    In English the word “and” usually is followed with a clause that can stand pretty much on it’s own. Not to mention if you actually wanted to convey your true meaning. You could have just restated. Instead you want to be tedious by foot-dragging. :-)

    Fine with me, as I’ve said elsewhere you can’t progress your argument so it’s as good as dead.

  • Sue

    Oh deary deary Mr Fencer.. we both know this is not what you were talking about to begin with. .. do you really think that ploy works on posters.. you are a sad wee fella .. and need to rely on these sites to make yourself seem important.. take it from me you are not.. lol Tedious yes.. intelligent NO

  • bsroon

    As stated above, it IS currently used in the US in a combination shot – two combination shots – listed above.

    The Amish kids not healthier? Nobody did a damb study about that, did they – to quote the “JABBER” crowd – “i need a citation” (whine) which is not going to be acceptable because it wasn’t endorsed by…. Offitt on your end when the man is a medical marvel moron – gets millions from patents and Jabbers think he’s some kind of vax god when he has a huge conflict of interest. Idiot says you can give an infant 10,000 shots and that is harmless.
    Phukn moron – with the avg dosage being 0.5 ml – that means that 10,000 shots would put 305.1187in³ into that baby. Safely.

    He was asked to take TEN vaccines on TV – and stormed off.

    There is a naturopathic doctor whose 40 yr practice has 35,000 kids who have never been vaccinated – and zero autism. i’m not saying nothing else could cause autism – it is a behavioral disorder by interpretation, consequently other neurological assaults are likely to cause similar issues.

    i also note no comment on the $61,000,000 settlement for the TDaP shot.

    i’m not saying that nobody anywhere should ever take any shots at all, i’m saying they need to be reformulated and have the toxins removed. i’m saying that infants from the moment of birth are not sharing drug needles and having orgies – so they likely don’t need a shot for Hep B – like the one that killed my 5 month old nephew. And if you don’t think my sister, his mother, the nurse is PISSED you haven’t seen anger at betrayal yet. The CDC has done studies which prove that the MOTHER can have Hep B and the placental barrier prevents the kid from getting hepatitis from her!!!

    i’m saying vaccines are NOWHERE near as effective nor anywhere close to as safe as the paradigm states – and i’m saying neither you nor ANY other people or group of people has the right to turn me (and that means YOU ) into some sort of medical slave, with the STATE practicing one size fits all medicine on you – without any recourse on your part.

    One size fits all? Okay – so girls getting the Gardasil shot have been killed by it. Everyone is going to be forced to line up (for a totally worthless shot – doesn’t even “work” for 40 yrs, needs to be “boosted” at least 7 times, does NOT prevent cervical cancer….) so we line up, JAB! All die. One size fits all, right?

    Or maybe since one size fits all, we all get the flu shot, we all come down with Guillain Barre’ Syndrome and are permanently damaged. One size…

    Perhaps like the fully vaccinated Harvard Mumps people we all take the shots and AGAIN – they don’t work (most outbreaks are infecting the VACCINATED – not the unvaccinated) One size fits all, they don’t work and we get the disease that we are supposed to be protected from ANYHOW as is currently and consistently happening…

  • Sonja Henie

    DTaP vaccine is available in the US, yes. That’s what the article says.

    As for the Amish, see below. Since you like personal anecdotes, let me give you this one: The last wild polio epidemic in the US was in the Amish in Pennsylvania and some midwestern states. My brother was living in Pennsylvania Amish country (indeed, most of rural PA has a lot of Amish, especially in central and western PA) and had a two year old. He flipped out and called me. I asked him if his child was vaccinated for polio, and since he said “yes”, I assured him she’d be OK. The old OPV that kids got then is close to 100% effective.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/why-are-anti-vaxxers-rallying-behind-the-amish/384151/

    You are more likely to get Guillain Barre from flu disease than from the vaccine. FAR more likely.

  • bsroon

    Assuming you mean replication of studies, i’m going to state that the editors have seen all this and still state…

    When your flu shot states that it isn’t studied for safety regarding fetuses, pregnant mothers, or nursing infants – that failure is not a “study” that can be replicated and magically prove the things safe. No. It may be one reason why MOST vaccine damage awards are given to flu shot victims – likely because of the number of flu shots by people thinking they help, but as i said before – the flu insert states that there is no proof that getting a flu shot will decrease your chance of getting the flu. Another non-study to replicate???

    The DTaP/TDaP shots state that the KINRIX is not studied for safety for kids under 4 yrs of age and age 7-16. So they only studied people from age 5-6, and 17 and up?? Another gap – not studied – that is of course not disproven by the non-studies about safety there….

    And you call me the fool – i’m just seeing holes in the paradigm. Flu shot NOT PROVEN TO PREVENT FLU – but take it anyway because (even though it’s usually the WRONG ONE) it’s magically going to help you…..somehow…. by……….just trust me, i’m a doctor – i was trained in how to administer shots over one afternoon in med school!

  • Jonathan Graham

    we both know this is not what you were talking about to begin with

    Well I know that I’m talking about the same thing I was before. So I guess you need me to explain it again? Ok you said:

    healthy children don’t die from the chickenpox.

    Clearly children healthy children do die of chicken pox so you come up with an argument by special definition

    my healthy is not children who have had 60 vaccines before they start school.. that live on GMO food.. and their foods are covered in pesticides..

    So “healthy” doesn’t mean in good health, to you. It means – in good health PLUS avoiding a bunch of other very common things. So you will always have an out when a healthy child dies of chickenpox. Kind of callous to use people that way but anyway…

    Unless you have handed down the kashrut then clearly there is more detail to be had. So I asked if even a tiny amount of pesticides counted. Which is when you started beating around the bush and being tedious.

    Like I said, it’s no skin off my nose. Be as obstructionist as you want. :-)

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Oh, now we know we have a serious crank, bringing out the Dun & Bradstreet argument. For anyone who doesn’t know, that’s a firm that assigns numbers to various entities, including corporations, non-profits, and government agencies. Tax protestors will tell you that the IRS’s D&B number means they are a private corporation. (You use this number to, among other things, apply for various types of grants.) You might as well slander the CDC because it also has Fax number assigned by AT&T.

    If one looks at overall numbers, the relative risk for the unvaccinated is much higher. Just looking at your own NY example, the 5% of the population that is not vaccinated comprised 10% of the sick. That’s a win for vaccines. And then, there was that 2013 measles outbreak in New York CIty where exactly zero of the 35 cases had been vaccinated.

    All that “natural” stuff, and life expectancy was 45.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Your claim about the Amish is the invention of a lazy journalist looking for a sinecure. The Amish do have autism (in fact, they have a high rate of congential defects because of inbreeding), and they do vaccinate. Rates were low, but they picked up when Amish became the predominant victims of 2013-14’s largest measles outbreak.

  • Sue

    Oh deary deary… went back into the post.. ha ha.. . a fencer and all.. wow..

    Kind of callous to use people that way but anyway…Mmmmmm what a ridiculous thing to say.. It is posters like you Fencer who is callous.. with your never ending fibs.. Oh well maybe fib is not strong enough as it is a small lie.. lets just say lies…
    Healthy children dying of Chickenpox.. Oh so easy easy to say harder to prove.. we both know it as untrue… Now again I will repeat,, and guess i won’t forget what I say as you will re post my words.. thanks for that.. Stop talking rubbish Fencer…Rubbish Rubbish.. put it where it belongs in the trash bin… lol

  • Jonathan Graham

    Kind of callous to use people that way but anyway…Mmmmmm what a ridiculous thing to say

    It’s true. You take any healthy child who died of pneumonia due to chicken pox and make it their fault by fabricating an enormous number of different factors. So that effectively you will never be without something to blame (other than chicken pox). All so you can preserve your pre-scientific ideas about disease.

    While the affectation is funny it’s a lot like talking to someone who wants to pretend they’re Scots but end up sounding like James Doohan.

  • Sonja Henie

    Rubbish, you say? http://m.qt.com.au/news/mums-shocking-vaccination-warning/3042290/?ref=hs
    Read this. Not too many big words in it. Should be at your reading level.

  • Sue

    Deary deary me you are a trier.. but as usual a wally .. Now you are talking about….

    who wants to pretend they’re Scots but end up sounding like James Doohan.

    I guess that says it all…

  • Jonathan Graham

    It’s interesting that each post of yours says considerably less than the one before. In fact remove the name calling, your obligatory terms to keep up your ridiculous affectation and quotes from me and what’s left?

    I guess that says it all

    In any case your argument is still back where it was days ago. You have defined “healthy” to mean virtually nobody. So anyone who dies you have an (entirely unjustified) excuse to blame it on – rather than the disease.

  • Sue

    Well you are really boring as to less comments to you.. I find you well pathetic..and a sad individual.. You are just not the sort you want to really converse with as to your stupid posts.. Someone dies and I have an excuse to blame it on .. do you get what I mean.. pathetic….

  • So maybe you ought to feed your kids better then?

    I mean, it stands to reason that if only malnourished kids die from virulent diseases then only half-starved-to-death kids should be threatened or injured by weakened, pieces or dead versions of said ‘harmless’ pathogens.

    Not the vaccine’s fault then, eggy, clearly since the accident in the example you gave was caused by malnutrition so clearly a vaccine-injured child must be very badly fed, by your own logic, and the malnutrition must have caused the problem.

    Best send CPS around to all the vaccine-injured children first – higher priority.

  • “I actually have reply posted no sentence here at all ever, that has contained the terms “total risk = ” and “total benefit.”

    Yes, Lowell, that’s what Jonathan is objecting to – he WANTS you to make a sentence that contains the term “total risk = ” and “total benefit = “

  • Jonathan Graham

    Actually what’s happening is I’m cornering you and each time you have to give up a point of conversation otherwise you lose it. :-)

  • Citation needed.

    And one in a million.

    As for anti-constitutional – nope:

    Abeel v Clark California Supreme Court 1890
    Jacobson v Massachusetts, US Supreme Court 1905
    Zucht v. King, US Supreme Court 1922
    Prince v. Massachusetts, US Supreme Court 1944
    Brown v. Stone, 1979 Mississippi Supreme Court
    Workman v. Mingo Cnty Bd. of Educ., 4th Cir., 2011
    Phillips v. City of New York, 2nd Cir., 2015;
    CA SB277 July 1st 2016

  • Who cares about your mind?

    What we want is evidence.

    Correct 5th grade maths and 9th grade chemistry please.

  • Less than one in a million.

  • Do you not understand the difference between flu and flu-like illnesses?

  • bsroon

    Hmm so that outbreak produced the largest group of permanently immune children (i notice nobody died or had permanent damage from the outbreak) since i was a kid and we pretty much ALL developed REAL immunity instead of fake measles vax PROTECTION. Immunity is permanent – no vax confers immunity.

    You imply that they have health issues from inbreeding and then blame the lack of vaccination for their health problems…. implying no susceptibility from the inbreeding. If that is supposedly true – i don’t know – may or may not be, so as you JABBERS keep whining – citation needed. (needled?lol)

    They are (sarcasm alert) almost human – and NO DOUBT received pressures and assurances that the measles shots would eliminate their outbreak issues. Being somewhat human, they may have believed that – despite the fact that in most outbreaks today (and for decades) the largest portion of the infected people in outbreaks are vaccinated to NOT get sick from those outbreaks.

    NY State last year – the infected in the measles outbreak – 90% vaccinated. In Ohio – mumps – the infected had been vaccinated to not get the mumps 97% – of the infected. It goes on and on. The infectious disease outbreaks occur primarily among the vaccinated and the currently up to date vaccinated – like the abysmal mumps vax showing at Harvard, the S Korean chicken pox history since 2005, the 99% measles vax compliance rate in a single province in China – which had 707 measles outbreaks last year – poor protection at best.

    There are some few studies btwn vaccinated and unvaccinated peoples.

    This is just one: ”

    Longterm Study in Guinea-Bissau (1 Kristensen I, Aaby P,
    Jensen H.:“Routine vaccinations and child survival: follow up study in
    Guinea-Bissau, West Africa”, BMJ 2000; 321: 1435–41) The children of 15,000 mothers were observed from 1990 to 1996 for 5 years.
    Result: the death rate in vaccinated children against diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough is twice as high as the unvaccinated children (10.5% versus 4.7%).

  • bsroon

    Somehow your 45 yr life expectancy times (way back when) is confusing economically imposed conditions of poor nutrition, bad sanitation, and bad hygiene with “natural living”. Blame the rich industrialists who at that time hadn’t been forced to concede SOME life quality, wage, working conditions, etc to the people who created all the wealth they stole.

    You confuse things like vaccination as the cause of disease decreases and mortality decreases when the start of those decreases occurred many decades prior to the advent of the vaccines (excepting smallpox which maintained brutally high death and disease occurrence rates until indoor plumbing and associated sanitation/hygiene and more) which ALL decreased when the sanitition etc became a part of “lower class” societies.

    Diseases which have never had vaccines or which have never been common decrease at the same basic time, at the same basic rate, as those in which vaccines had been developed. When some of the infectious diseases had a vaccine to “save” them the graph rates never changed with the advent of that vaccine. In fact your friend measles – dropped to almost it’s lowest point BEFORE THE VACCINE WAS MARKETED! If things had continued as they had been, the graphic projections predicted no measles deaths – EXACTLY WHEN VACCINES CLAIMED TO HAVE CAUSED THAT SITUATION. Hmm. Piggybacking, it looks like.

    Well – i have to do natural things like visit the smart people living healthy,non-chemical lives with organic and better foods, watering my garden, taking care of my livestock, and in general – not getting infectious or other diseases, lol.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    In bizarro antivax world, getting sick is good for you! (It is hardly surprising that no one died in an outbreak of 35 measles cases; case mortality in advanced societies is at most 1:1000. One miscarriage was attributed to measles, however.) I can’t find the source of your claim for New York measles in 2015; please give a link. I do, however, have bookmarked the California data, which shows the unvaccinated about 20 times as likely to have gotten sick from the Disneyland outbreak, even on the most generous allotment of victims whose vaccination status was unknown. On your own data for New York, the 5% of the population that is unvaccinated represents 10% of the sick—a win for vaccines!

    If I am reading the commentary correctly, only 19 patients in your Guinea-Bissau study had only the DTP vaccine. Rather small sample. The overall mortality for vaccinated children, who had gotten at least one vaccine, was much lower than children who had no vaccine.

  • bsroon

    i know – that is why i try to word the INFECTED people were mostly vaccinated.

    Had they incurred REAL protection – they wouldn’t get sick and the unvaccinated would take a much higher percentage, i suspect. NOT a statistician (and please don’t make me be one, lol) but the protection obviously failed.

    On the other hand, in my more than 60 yrs in this life – i’ve been exposed to MULTIPLE measles outbreaks in the ten states i’ve lived in (through?) and since i have PERMANENT, REAL IMMUNITY – unlike the fake vax stuff – i don’t get it. Or mumps, or chicken pox….And i’ve been in houses with children in the infectious stage of multiples of these things with friends and family through the years.

    The CDC has to recommend 2 doses because they don’t work for diddly. That is why in 2013 two Mumps virologists for Merck brought a whistleblower lawsuit against Merck for faking their kill rates by the vaccine – they were spiking the samples with dead animal antigens to pretend to reach the mandated 95% death rate for vax approval. Coming to court this year supposedly. So the mumps vax is grossly, mostly, ineffective – look at Harvard, where their students had to be up to date on their vaccinations, and they STILL got mumps and it STILL spread – despite some people getting up to FOUR MUMPS SHOTS – and of course, it STILL DIDN’T WORK.

    So the CDC can say what it wants – things are NOT working as advertised.

    I LOVE that you want people to be safer and healthier. i think we just have different bodies of knowledge, and different levels of risk acceptance. You haven’t explained the “Original Antigenic Sin” concept and why the (actual) scientific concept and observations may not be interpreted correctly. How about the Canadian Flu Paradox – increase the flu shots in a specific population segment – and that segment and only that segment has increased flu cases and outbreaks. You don’t explain how increased vaccination rates always increase the # of disease cases and outbreaks for THAT vaccination, pretty much – certainly for the live and attenuated vaccines – what are there now, seven at least?

    With TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY MORE VACCINES COMING ON LINE for bullshit “diseases” how much more damage are we going to have imposed on our bodies.

    If i told you that “well numbers don’t lie, and to make society safer for reasons X,Y & Z – your children and grandchildren are all now scheduled for forced sterilization – well, you might become indignant. In the exact same way, my health choices are pertinent to my body, Nobody – NOBODY else knows my body as i do. NO ONE. Therefore nobody else can make valid decisions regarding my body. The state has no right to practice medicine without a license on my body. They have no right to violate their OWN (CALIF – SB277) state constitution in at least 2 ways, nor the US Constitution in at least one way.

    They (do you?) want to shove some medically asinine “one-size-fits-all” medical procedure on everyone? Well – vaccines have and do undeniably kill some people – there is no denying this FACT at all – so if one size fits all – then we are all going to be forced to line up by our govt – and all die.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    Infant mortality was high even among the wealthy of the 19th Century, who had access to adequate nutrition. Now, I will admit that we got better at saving the sick. But is the invention of the Iron Lung really a good reason to skip the polio vaccine? Polio, by the way, was more prevalent in the middle class than the poor and is associated with better hygiene.

    Lurkers: We’ve been through this all before; the root is that antivaxers reject the mechanistic Germ Theory of Disease in favor of the discredited Filth Theory of Disease, so that their own good health is not a product of widespread vaccination and herd immunity, but their own personal cleanliness.

    On measles, incidentally, bsroon’s innumerate claim that deaths were going to zero (for which he supplies no link or data, but which I recognize from elsewhere) is obtained by putting a Straight Line Fit to the inherently cyclic death count from measles, starting with a very bad year and ending with a very good one. What bsroon has left out is that on that invalid model, sometime in the late 1970s the deaths go negative, i.e., people who died from measles earlier were resurrected. That tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the analysis.

  • Mike Stevens

    “There are some few studies btwn vaccinated and unvaccinated peoples.
    This is just one: “Longterm Study in Guinea-Bissau (1 Kristensen I, Aaby P, Jensen H.:“Routine vaccinations and child survival: follow up study in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa”, BMJ 2000; 321: 1435–41)”

    And what was the study’s conclusion?

    THIS:
    “Results: Mortality was lower in the group vaccinated
    with any vaccine compared with those not vaccinated
    , the mortality ratio being 0.74 (95% confidence interval 0.53 to 1.03).”

    As the authors say in their discussion….
    “Our observations emphasise the importance of immunisations in developing countries; vaccinated children had much lower mortality.”

    Got that?

  • Mike Stevens

    “there’s no mechanism by which chickenpox itself can kill”…
    “…..chickenpox does not affect any vital organs or airways”

    Varicella pneumonitis and encephalitis are the usual causes of death in chickenpox.
    I suggest you learn something about the disease instead of displaying your ignorance.
    This one will do for starters:
    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/969773-overview

  • Sonja Henie

    There were about 40 cases out of 20000 students at Harvard. 40/20000
    Do the math, bub. It’s about 0.2%. The Vax was99.8% effective.

  • Andrew Lazarus

    measles vaccines kill

    Maybe three times a year tops (more likely zero). Measles killed 400 per year. Lurkers: Can you figure out why 400 deaths is a nothingburger while three alleged deaths is a catastrophe? I’ll tell you why: secretly (vel non) antivaxers are sure they have a Badass Immune System™ that will eat measles (diphtheria, smallpox) for breakfast, but somehow when it comes to a shot, they aren’t so confident. Go figure?!

  • joe

    Well I am 71 years old, I saw FIRST HAND what it was like living with Polio around me, my four schoolmates in my class ( 1954 ) alone died from Polio, I believe they had strong immune systems to, but Polio did not give a shit, it killed them,shortly after, the vaccination was available we could not get QUICK enough in line to get the jab.

  • joe

    “BULLSHIT DISEASES” far out, are you for real” are you one of those that think smallpox just left the planet on it’s own? I would like you to contract one of the diseases and tell me how bullshit it is.

  • joe

    I applaud you for your entertainment, I was feeling a little down this morning,since reading your post i have been finding it difficult to stop laughing,thank you.

  • How would recommending two doses help if they didn’t work for diddy?

  • I do not understand why brsoon is worried about weakened versions, dead versions or pieces of BULLSHIT diseases.

  • Produce the primary citations yourself.

    Your claim – your responsibility to back it up.

  • JoeFarmer

    Cue image of Homer Simpson…

    “D’Oh!”

  • JoeFarmer

    You are a perfect example of how the social programs paid for off the backs of hard working people allow people like you to survive.

    Call it, “Darwin Deferral”.

  • You mean he wants to fudge the numbers and story, and so no sense at all can ever be made of it. The data is already there. Just use it as normal and honest people would.

  • Rational wiki is a bogus source that anyone can contribute to, and worse than the National Enquirer for any authenticity and truth, Wake up desperate woman; you are a woman, right?

  • Disrupt and distract from any real diligent and honest debate of the vaccine issues. I know, that is all they ever can, and ever will do.

  • Does “normal, honest people” include knowing 5th grade maths and 9th grade chemistry?

  • So?

    Anyone can contribute to vactruth.

  • Didn’t I tell you stop using those cut and hacked up sentences replies?

    Translation:

    So you admit that you are obviously very sick and in an extreme amount of denial as to and in regard to the issue of vaccine harm done, and vaccine injury. You as well do not care what the real historical record recorded at the time by those who lived at the time, shows us in regard to historical vaccine efficacy. So in other words you will simply and only continue to maintain the falsely touted and so called official vaccine propaganda. Just like the perfectly bought off sheeple, never waiving from the official trolling shill guidelines of misguided and false information; and what else is new as to you, so called Jonathan Graham??? And your real name is? How many previous character names have you as well had here on this article site? So despicable.

    So get to declaring any and all of your sources of conflict of interest? So far you have refused to do so.

  • It sure is a good thing that your major level of sickness here, is not contagious. No need to be working on a toxic and known contaminated vaccine for that?

    Again, you as well have no right to use any form of cut and butcher sentences replying that is not available as a direct option provided by this articles website.

  • I is NOT an option that this website itself provides. Lie about it and twist it all you want. And really the use of that makes you look like an idiot, and with a major amount of something to hide. There is no excuse for you not directly replying to a previous reply, and and as to its full content, directly replying below it. But you are so extra intelligent and special now aren’t you? So you need that option. Your sick and twisted replies are amounting always to nothing but repeated and simply more endless …B.S. Face it.

  • Such an entirely twisted man. So sick and loving the thought of those vaccine injured children, you almost jump for sick joy in making one more, and another entirely in denial post. Hell will have no mercy on you, repent while you still can.

  • Repent while you still can!!!!

  • Repent while you still can!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Repent of your evil and while you still can.

  • Repent of your evil deeds and while you still can.

  • You too, repent of your evil deeds and while you still can. You are obviously very much in denial ….and obviously very …sick.

  • SICK!!!!

  • …SICK!!!!

  • …………………….SICK!!!!

  • …………..SICK!!!

  • ………………….SICK!!!

  • …………..SICK!!!

  • ………………….SICK!!!

  • ……………SICK!!!!

  • ……………………………………SICK!!!

  • More in denial sickness.

  • More ridiculous, in denial sickness.

  • JoeFarmer

    I have finally come to the realization that it’s completely pointless to try to educate these people.

    To borrow the famous phrase from, ‘Forrest Gump’, “stupid is as stupid does”.

  • In denial, much?

  • AutismDadd

    Crapola from Andrew as usual

  • AutismDadd

    How naive to think its so simple.

  • AutismDadd

    Wow. A duh Moment

  • AutismDadd

    He harasses them, then say “don’t harass me” when you give it back to him.

  • AutismDadd

    Snort…a lurker perhaps?

  • Jonathan Graham

    Didn’t I tell you stop using those cut and hacked up sentences replies?

    Lowell you are generally pretty non-compliant to any question I ask. Why would there be any reason at all to comply with this wish of yours?

    And your real name is?

    As I’ve explained before I have a job and family which have nothing to do with my hobby here on Disqus. So I have zero interest in them intersecting and as you are a horrible person I have less than zero interest in you intersecting with any part of my real life.

    How many previous character names have you as well had here on this article site?

    My guess? Zero.

    So get to declaring any and all of your sources of conflict of interest?

    As has been stated many times, I have declared anything that I would consider a conflict of interest – e.g. getting paid to post here, being employed by the pharmaceutical or medical industry. You seem dissatisfied with this answer and when you were asked to provide a more complete set of criteria you simply refused.

    So far you have refused to do so

    Incorrect. I simply an unable to comply with a set of criteria that you refuse to disclose.

  • Jonathan Graham

    you as well have no right

    I have every right to respond in any way which is well within the ToS.

    And as has been explained to you. Any person who can type in the message response box can respond in the way that I do. Please think before you post.

  • Jonathan Graham

    I is NOT an option that this website itself provides.

    This is now so far from English that I’m not even sure what you are talking about. “I” do you mean the blockquoting that I use? Which you seem all agitated about?

    Yes. Everyone who can type in these boxes can use the blockquote tag. https://help.disqus.com/customer/portal/articles/466253-what-html-tags-are-allowed-within-comments-

  • Jonathan Graham

    Such an entirely twisted man. So sick and loving the thought of those vaccine injured children, you almost jump for sick joy in making one more,

    This is both incorrect and abusive speech.

  • Well, obviously – it is more complicated than that.

    Learn 5th grade maths and 9th grade chemistry then I will explain more than the baby-talk version.

  • Of course, you know the answer is NO because drunk drivers are overrepresented in accidents.

    Much like unvaccinated people are overrepresented in disease outbreaks even if the raw number is less than the vaccinated people who got the disease.

  • joe

    Coming from the king of crapola

  • Sue

    Hi AutismDadd, Jonathan Graham is an idiot a complete and utter idiot.. I would say no pain no gain.. People who have had Vaccine Damage in their lives understand.. and autism is one of the worst.. he will try his best to intimidate.. make us look like we don’t care, but you know what people like him a very small and non important, people like you do so much good.. thank you for your post..

  • Sonja Henie

    What’s to deny?

  • bwf309

    And here we are again with you delving into minutia and trying to distract from the main points. Good job grasshopper

  • Nope.

    It’s how logic works.

  • AutismDadd

    Well I wouldn’t give Andrew that much credit, but if you worship him that much, then enjoy it.

  • AutismDadd

    Drunk drivers are over represented? Lets hope, but it has nothing to do with sober drivers who aren’t breaking the law. Funny how the vaccinated show up plenty because the miracle vac either doesn’t work or wears off because its bogus.

  • AutismDadd

    Yea you do that. And learn some logic and get help for your blind faith syndrome

  • Sonja Henie

    Chickenpox is not always mild and it does not always confer permanent immunity. Having chickenpox disease also puts one at higher risk for shingles in later life.

  • Sonja Henie

    Kinrix is only approved for 5-6 year olds. No, they didn’t study anyone 17+ because DTaP is not indicated after the 7th birthday.

  • I have.

    It is called consistent reasoning.

  • Of course drunk drivers are overrepresented. Sober drivers show up plenty in accidents though – and indeed, most of the drivers who get into fatal car accidents are sober at the time.

    Yes, they show up plenty because there are numbers between 0 and 100. The point of disease safety is not whether all or most of the cases are vaccinated but whether all or most the vaccinated are cases – much like the point of road safety is not whether all or most fatalities occur in sober drivers but whether all or most of the sober drivers are fatalities.

  • Exactly!

    7+ get Tdap.

  • AutismDadd

    Logical fallacy

  • AutismDadd

    Its called blind faith

  • Really?

    Name it.

  • Nope.

    This is applying the same logic to another scenario – you don’t need any faith – you need a brain.

  • eggman2

    Don’t be stupid. Being injected with poisons , like the ones found in vaccines, is being malnourished. Pollution is a form of malnourishment.

  • bsroon

    First: i’m hard working and pay as much for the system as others in my similar situation – so i’m paying for shit i disagree with that is forced onto others – in fake “benefit” paradigms. Since i don’t get vaccines – i don’t pay for the damages and death that the vaccines cause – so you “JABBERS” are the people that paid the more than 3 billion when the vax went wrong. This is why it’s MY choice what to do with/to my body.
    Since i don’t do any drugs (2 aspirin, 2 motrin since 75) i’m healthier than you are. Just had my first cold in over 6 years ( about 8 i think) by working too hard, too late, building when the temps dropped, wind picked up, clouds came in and dampened everything. The last time i had to take a day off work for sickness? That would be 77 – so WHEN the ____ have i been a drain on your system?
    I used to have health insurance as a subcontractor on million $$$$ homes in SW Colorado, with up to 5 employees. My payments went from $200/month for my wife and i EACH to over $600/month each in 2 years – and we NEVER used it for ANYTHING. It’s you JABBERS and silly prescription takers (pHARMa drugs NEVER cure a dam thing and ALWAYS cause more damage) so YOU clowns get the system all jacked up for me – who is far healthier than you, most likely.

    So YOU drain the system, I DON’T.

    Since Darwinian evolution has been disproven, you need to come up with another variant on the evolutionary theme, lol. Maybe the left hand of Karma…

  • bsroon

    Well, recommending 2 doses may not work, no? Look at the Harvard scenario – proving the mumps vax is pretty close to worthless. Some of those poor kids have FOUR shots – and it didn’t help, they couldn’t slow anything, they stopped recommending more shots and starting more quarantine.

  • Only if you cannot do 5th grade maths.

    Now, answer the question: How would recommending two doses help if the vaccine didn’t work?

  • You mean like the formaldehyde that we already make all on our own?

    Or like the alu compound that is all around us?

    Or did you mean like the Oxidane in vaccines?

  • bsroon

    As stated – i had chicken pox, mumps, and measles AT THE LEAST as a child, as did almost everyone i grew up with in the late 50s/early 60s – and i ENJOYED being out of school even if i had an itchy rash, or slight fever. No problem. No problem at all. AND unlike you, i have permanent immunity because i did that without the temporary protection (never immunity) of a vaccine. Like my entire generation – and we didn’t die, we didn’t all get blind, or whatever. Now with the vax – people are having these former childhood illnesses later in life DESPITE BEING VACCINATED and it becomes much more dangerous because of that. NO immunity for you, GREATER danger. Seems like a bad trade-off.

    Smallpox was cleared up by sanitition, hygiene, better health, less kids working in textile mills and mines getti